November 24, 2007

Open thread to talk about Ron Paul December 16 money bomb and his winning New Hampshire primary

Being part of the Ron Paul movement has been the highlight of 2007.

December 16, 2007 will be one of the most important days in the history of US presidential politics.

Enjoy HP'ers. We have a horse in this race.

Register for the December 16 Ron Paul money bomb here


56 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ron Paul makes me proud to be an American

Anonymous said...

It's takes a village idiot to vote for Hillary Clinton.

Anonymous said...

Give til it hurts

legitimate businessman said...

I'd rather burn my money than give it to the neocons for their empire-building or the liberals to flush down the drain on inter-generational welfare and teachers union scum.

At least I have a third choice this year. Even if he doesn't win, at least a few people woke up and realized that both political parties are pure sewage. Of course we still have the registered idiots who drink from that sewage and think that it's a $500 bottle of Cristal.

Anonymous said...

Yo, I'm good.

Anonymous said...

Ron Paul can't save us(U.S.). Thats like trying to ask the captain of the Titanic to save the ship after it hit the Ice Berg. I really dont know what all the euphoria and bru ha ha for Ron Paul is all about.

Its over. The dollar is tanking, mortgage rates are resetting, and the ugly foreclosure spiral that is unwinding will take the whole economy down with it. Personal consumption will go down, so the whole engine thats been driving the economy will suddenly come to a halt.

Certainly, Paul understands the severe financial cancer this country is under. But what is the CURE? Just like an oncologist treating (fooling) a terminally ill cancer patient, we all know that there really isnt much that Ron Paul or any other financial guru can do to stop this slow but deadly moving train wreck.

We have gotten so far out of whack that the only real solution or remedy (to let the market correct itself) will possibly result in a never ending spiral that will plunge the whole economy in a very deep recession or (depression)?

The ramifications will be too severe and too widespread. Thats what Bernake knows. By lowering the rates, he's just trying to buy time, but eventually the hole in the dam cracks a little bit more and a whole flood occurrs that drowns out the entire village.

If Bernake were to let the Market correct itself, it really wouldn't because its gone way beyond that point a long time ago. Maybe this could have been done back in 03 or possibly beginning 04, but we're way past that.

Going back to the Titanic analogy: its going to be every man and woman for himself or herself. And make sure there are enough life boats out there, cause you dont want to get frozen out in the waters (remember they can freeze your assets unless FDIC insured). Good Luck and dont trust ANY politician, including Ron Paul!

Malcolm said...

It goes without saying that I’m onboard for the Tea Party.

This is going to get a little long. I apologize in advance, and you’re welcome to skip it all together.

As a formerly life-long republican, my support of Ron Paul comes as a matter of self-interest and self-preservation.

I believe that the neo-con influence has seriously harmed both the Republican party and the country as a whole.

I believe their “my way or the highway” attitude to every issue has weakened us internationally; and I believe that they view the Constitution as an amusement, an inconvenience that can be ignored with a signing statement or a big talking point banner behind them.

They have radicalized the republican party; have forced a balancing radicalization in the democratic party; and have decided to act as playground bully for everyone inbetween.

Ron Paul can be used as the means to drag both parties back into common sense.

There are several other reasons worth mentioning, but I’ll save space here and simply point to my post “Why I support Ron Paul” on my blog. (http://malcolmrant.blogspot.com/2007/11/why-i-am-supporting-ron-paul-in-2008.html)

Now, here’s the field as I see it:

Thompson is a never ran, so count him out.

Giuliani is going to fizzle pretty quick. He’s a one trick pony (9-11), and it’s only a matter of time before people remember that up until 9/10, they couldn’t get rid of him fast enough.

They say that Giuliani has staffed-up with the neo-cons jumping ship from the administration. That’s reason enough not to vote for him. Those people have caused enough trouble for my lifetime. Add to that the various ethical rumors, and we have a candidate whose self-destruction is written in stone.

McCain will rise as Guiliani drops, but I don’t think he can go all the way. In his desire to get along with everyone until the ’08 election, he appears to have rolled over too many times to sit with the “straight talk express” crowd. I could see him as VP if Romney gets the nomination.

Romney seems like a decent sort of guy, and is the presumptive nominee (in my opinion). I don’t know if the Mormon issue is going to come into play or not. Hard to say with “old republicans”, they’re still trying to figure out the “Ms” business.

Which brings us to Ron Paul:

If Ron Paul wins the republican nomination, he will win the presidency.

As a nominee, he will be forced to tone it down a bit, and that will only help his polls.

If he’s running against Hillary or Edwards, his common, traditional themes will ring as true in comparison to the more “plastic” candidates, and the “anyone but Hillary” crowd will put him over the top.

If he’s running against Obama, it would be a toss-up, but he could win as long as he doesn’t have a senior moment and start talking about “the negro maid I once had.”

Now the question is: Can he get the nomination?

Depends on the Tea Party, I’m guessing. If the Tea Party goes bad, he’s done. If the amount raised is crazy big, he’ll move into second place behind Romney within weeks.

SnottsdaleTinHat said...

VERY IMPORTANT!! THERE ARE WEBSITES SCAMMING RON PAUL'S DONATIONS!! PLEASE, PLEASE BE AWARE WHEN YOU DONATE. One of them is voteronpaul and has a shady little donation button towards the top right hand of the website which takes you to a page with a bunch of fine print plus an accept button. Basically if you donate there you are consenting for the website to have whatever you give. I called his campaign headquarters and they are aware of it. Only use his site!

Shakster said...

Well it's a nice thought.But the goons that own Washington DC will never allow Ron Paul to be Prez,.........but
To my surprise(I was wr ...wro...wro....wrong)gulp.Ron Paul has exposed the 40million Americans that know the truth about Washington,The FED,London,and a host of other anti freedom groups that have snuck into power.He is more than just a thorn in their sides.Their desperation to silence him is obvious with the FBIs raiding the mint that strikes his Image on Silver coins.Dude is leaving some serious damage in his wake.I won't waste time voting,but I do promote the campaign.

Anonymous said...

Hillary who?

Ron Paul 2008

devestment said...

Only one person at thanksgiving didn’t like Ron Paul, everyone in the family knows she is an idiot.

nick said...

Don't forget Nov 30th. rudysreadinglist dot com

Anonymous said...

I wish it wasn't so far away the wait is killing me!

Anonymous said...

Of topic, but I hope you all saw Obama great day of internet fundraising a couple of weeks ago:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/maingroup/BaracksFridayProject

http://tinyurl.com/3axxjp (for those of you who can't see long urls)

A fraction short of Ron Paul's number...

abb said...

While I agree voting in the general election has been a waste of time in all of our lifetimes, voting in the 2008 primary is CRITICALLY important.

If every RP supporter votes in the primary, RP WILL win the nomination.

Bitterenter said...

Well gee, if it's all about the message and not how much money you raise (because money in a campaign taints your integrity), why all the hoopla over how much money Paul raises? Do yo think that if he raises enough money he can get his message out there bigger and better than others? Let;s say he has enough to blanket the airwaves and get people to vote for him despite his platform.

How is he any different than any other of the "corrupt" parties. democrat or republican? Don't you Paul people decry money's influence in politics?

Bitterrenter said...

Want to bet the scam website getting donations is run by a libertarian? After all, it's your god-given right to screw other people out of money without that bad government regulation.

Free markets, free minds, right?

Anonymous said...

"why all the hoopla over how much money Paul raises?"

Because that's all the media cares about.

All the money that political candidates raise goes right into the media's pockets as campaign advertising. That is why the media dismisses any candidate that doesn't have a huge campaign budget: it's bad for their business. The more money a candidate raises, the more money the media will make from them, and the more favorable news coverage the candidate will get.

Unfortunately most Americans don't research issues themselves, they simply take the word of the media. More importantly, they're afraid to vote for someone unless they think they'll win, and the media always paints poorly financed campaigns as hopeless outsiders. You have to have enough money to buy the media's respect.

That's what the November 5th money bomb did: it bought Ron Paul media respect. Notice how he went from "fringe candidate" to "dark horse contender" overnight? His views didn't change, and he didn't do anything differently; yet suddenly the media started taking him seriously.

This is ugly, but it's also fact. We have to pay to play.

Anonymous said...

Giving to the campaign of RP is admirable, however, I'll be spending my cash on ammo, it will soon be more valauble then gold.

Shoot straight, keep your powder dry.

REVOLUTION!

Anonymous said...

Ron Paul is the worst of the farright and farleft combined.

Worst of the far left: Blame America for everything. Get rid of the military. Negotiate with Osama (negotiate how exactly, I'm not sure, do only 1/2 of us convert to Islam, how exactly do you negotiate?)

Wors of the far right: end all immigration, end all trade, ban abortion

Anyone who supports this madman needs help.

Paul E. Math said...

"why all the hoopla over how much money Paul raises?"

Because the MSM are in it for the money. You have to pay them off by buying their ad space if you want them to report on you. Simple as that.

That's the role the MSM played in the housing bubble - doing puff-piece stories cheering rising home prices because that's what their advertisers wanted (NAR, homebuilders, mortgage lenders, Home Depot, Lowes, etc).

The MSM are just whores. You can't expect a whore to pay attention to you because you're special, because you're smart and your heart is in the right place - you need to pay them.

On the bright side, if you have enough money, you can get a whore to do anything.

Anonymous said...

DONATE TODAY - DON'T WAIT FOR DEC. 16!!!
Per an email from the real Ron Paul campaign, they need the $$ WAY BEFORE the Iowa primary so they can buy more radio ads. If you've already donated to the campaign then you know what I'm talking about. Go Ron Paul!

Bitterrenter said...

Well, if his campaign conforms to the status quo of money this early in the process, imagine how much he'll cave and conform if he wins.

So let me recap. Mainstream republican and democrats are bad because they depend on money to the point of obsession but Paul is just playing along by doing the same?

Riiiiight.

Your Jewish Master said...

"At least I have a third choice this year. Even if he doesn't win, at least a few people woke up and realized that both political parties are pure sewage."

And you all will realize what all people who support ousider candidates realize.

But I have to hand it to you Keith...

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Giving to the campaign of RP is admirable, however, I'll be spending my cash on ammo, it will soon be more valauble then gold.

So that's you who keeps cleaning out Wally World on me? Oops but Wal-Mart is evil and is my enemy. That's okay though, they still got the cheapest ammo prices :-)

Anonymous said...

bitterrenter: You are deliberately being obtuse. People or corporations donate to candidates because they expect to influence their candidate's political stands, or already agree with their candidate's political stands and will benefit if their candidate wins.

In the case of Clinton, Obama, Giuliani, and Romney, their top donors are all from big Wall Street firms, each of which have donated ***hundreds of thousands of dollars***.

In contrast, Ron Paul's top donors are from Google, the US Army, and the US Navy. Google employees gave him about $10 thousand.

From this, it should be obvious that Ron Paul's money is coming from tens of thousands of individual donors who agree with his long and consistent record as a defender of Constitutional rights and are giving him small donations in return, not a few big corporations who are buying the right to extend their hegemony over us.

uknowwhoiyam said...

I missed the 11/5 campaign but I will be donating $1,000 on 12/16.

And I invite everyone else here to give. Your future DEPENDS on it!

Agent #777 said...

@Bitterrenter

If Ron Paul had "played the game" for 30 years, I imagine he would have enough money to finance his campaign himself.

His money is not coming from corporations, it is coming from the common people (for the most part).

You are about as bright as a friend of 30 years I have. He cannot claim a single thing that he disagrees with Ron Paul about, but he refuses to vote for him because he says he "can't win". As far as I can tell, he does not like the way he looks. I guess if RP looked like Romney, he would vote for him.

He can't say right now who he will vote for, cause he "needs to know who will be there". TRANSLATION: I just want to vote for the winner. He has been a pretty good friend over the years, but this is making me not even want to speak to him. But I suppose, he is not so different than many Americans.

wc said...

The only thing an independent is going to do is take votes away from one of the other two parties. The system is bad no doubt but the only thing we'll end up with is President Giulliani

gorilla said...

RP is now running fourth among GOP candidates in New Hampshire, and has topped 5% in two national polls.

The election is still a year away. Most Americans still aren't paying much attention. The "front runners", the media darlings, left and right, haven't met the real America that exists outside LA and NYC. They are in for a rude shock IMO. If RP can refine his message to connect better with ordinary folks, he will surprise a lot of pundits and pollsters come November '08.

Anonymous said...

If the only people that voted were men who work in the private sector, Ron Paul would have a chance.

However the tens of millions of guberment workers will never vote for him.

The tens of millions of single mothers dependent on the govt will never vote for him.

The tens of millions of welfare collectors will never vote for him.

Nobody on Wall St will ever vote for him.

The tens of millions of illegals (and yes they do vote) will never vote for him.

The tens of millions of retirees who depend on the govt for their monthly checks.

Anyone who works for a defence contractor will never vote for him.

And on and on.

So many people depend on the government for their existence that they will never vote for a guy like Ron Paul who will take away the gravy train.

The 5% he is getting in the polls is about the % of Americans who could live without the government. It is sad but true.

Bitterrenter said...

I almost had to laugh when I read the comment about Goggle employees and the military. Do you think they don't have agendas? The former want a world with no taxes and the latter want a fascist state. It's no secret that the only thing libertarians like Paul favor is a strong military. Never deployed but strong nevertheless.

Individuals, corporations, it's all money. The corporation has no brain or soul but is run by individuals who decide where they money is going. The only difference is the amount of the contribution.

There's nothing special about the money raised by MoveOn or Ron Paul. There's always an agenda.

You all go on believing you can have a first rate country without having to pay taxes. That's your true motivation for wanting a libertarian leader. Like the republicans aren't bad enough.

And to the guy supposedly sending Paul $1000: You might as well wipe yourself with it. It's going to be money wasted like so much toilet paper.

Bitterrenter said...

Oh, by the way. Go and ask the Minnesotans how they feel about their no nonsense, revolutionary leader who challenged the status quo, Jesse Ventura. He failed miserably trying to take that elusive but magical "third way".

There is no magic. You either live in a savage culture of every man for himself (conservative, libertarian) or a culture of cooperation and growing together (liberal). Try as you might you'll NEVER escape that truth. We tried the former for most of human history and it led us nowhere. The liberal way is the only way and the one that has given us tremendous growth, opportunity, equality and civilization.

Your Jewish Master said...

"And to the guy supposedly sending Paul $1000: You might as well wipe yourself with it. It's going to be money wasted like so much toilet paper. "

My god, I agree with Bitterrenter on something!

Anonymous said...

The man has some interesting ideas but is not electable. The RP supporters I know are strongly anti-Zionist. He is also attracting the militia crowd, the hard money crowd, out of Iraq crowd, the marijuana crowd. This is not enough of a base to overcome the more mainstream opponents he will be facing.

His views are extreme with little chance of accomplishment. If he waters down his message to get the additional votes he will be proven just another hypocrite. People are starved for idealistic philosophers with simple answers to complicated problems. The increasingly militant RP-speak groupies remind me of the guru worshippers, only much more flammable.

Anonymous said...

I gave $250 on the 5th, will be at least doubling that on the 16th.

Anonymous said...

OMG I read that this nutjob is going to lease a blimp and fly it around with him for December.

Seriously people, this is who you are supportig....a guy who is flying a blimp around.

Anonymous said...

You all go on believing you can have a first rate country without having to pay taxes. That's your true motivation for wanting a libertarian leader. Like the republicans aren't bad enough.

=======

I am willing to pay taxes. But not 1/2 my income which is what I pay now. I think 15-20% is a fair amount but no more. Democrats want to raise my 50 to 60. Reps want to lower it to 45.

Ron Paul would lower it to 20.

Get it now numbnuts?

Sgt Rock said...

"You either live in a savage culture of every man for himself (conservative, libertarian) or a culture of cooperation and growing together (liberal)."

LOL X 100

Have you ever held a job for more than a week BR?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Ron Paul is the worst of the farright and farleft combined.

Worst of the far left: Blame America for everything. Get rid of the military. Negotiate with Osama (negotiate how exactly, I'm not sure, do only 1/2 of us convert to Islam, how exactly do you negotiate?)

Wors of the far right: end all immigration, end all trade, ban abortion

Anyone who supports this madman needs help.


Your a fucking retard.

He doesn't stand for anything you mentioned you drooling stooge.

Anonymous said...

Bitterrenter is just pissed off because Ron Paul actually supports all the progressive policies the Democrats pretend to support (unconditional exit from Iraq, legalizing drugs, investigating impeachment) but never actually vote for when the bill hits the floor. Dr. Paul has exposed the Democratic Party for the weak-willed Wall Street stooges they really are.

What people don't understand is that under Ron Paul, all the things Bitterrenter wants become state functions, not federal functions. California and New York will put up giant social safety nets, and he can live there and enjoy all the fruits of the New Deal. I'll move to Nevada and let gambling tourists keep paying for my infrastructure. Jesus freaks can move to Arkansas, where evolution and uppity women will both be illegal.

Everyone wins!

Anonymous said...

"I almost had to laugh when I read the comment about Goggle employees and the military. Do you think they don't have agendas? The former want a world with no taxes and the latter want a fascist state."

And they say Ron Paul supporters wear tinfoil hats? Good Lord! Have you considered that perhaps military men and women support Ron Paul because they want to GET THEMSELVES THE HELL OUT OF IRAQ?

It's so funny watching the Democrats squirm when confronted with a real progressive like Ron Paul...they don't know what to do!

Bitterrenter said...

Dear anonymous anti-government poster:

Small, ineffective, hands-off governments are associated with backwards, corrupt, third world countries. Think central America, Africa. Large, active central governments are associated with first world, advanced countries. Think Europe and Canada.

You're probably one of those people who think 40% of your taxes go to foreign aid, 40% to welfare and the other 20% to those a-holes at the postal service.

The ignorance is astounding. If it weren't for a strong activist government in this country you wouldn't have indoor plumbing much less a computer.

Paul E. Math said...

Bitterrenter, did you seriously compare Ron Paul to Jesse 'the body' Ventura? You're comparing a medical doctor with 30 years experience in congress to what? To a professional wrestler.

There is no legitimate comparison between Ron Paul and Jesse Ventura, none.

cador said...

Ron Paul is too good to be President of the US.

I understand why people support him, however.

Perhaps the US in it's present condition does not deserve to be 'saved'.

Bitterrenter said...

No one pays 50% of their earnings in taxes. No one. Well, not unless they're stupid. The IRS figures show the most anyone pays is 22%. Add state and local and you'll still not get to 50%.

But if I had my way, tax rates would go up to pre-Reagan levels. Overnight.

As for the question about my work life, "have I ever held a job for more than a week?": Not only do I have a stellar work record, I managed to save 6 years of salary and live debt free despite never making much more than the median for my area. Does that challenge your negative stereotype of a liberal?

Comparing Paul, a "doctor" to Jesse Ventura: Josef Mengele was a doctor too. What's your point?

Anonymous said...

His views are extreme with little chance of accomplishment. If he waters down his message to get the additional votes he will be proven just another hypocrite. People are starved for idealistic philosophers with simple answers to complicated problems. The increasingly militant RP-speak groupies remind me of the guru worshippers, only much more flammable.

November 26, 2007 2:27 AM

=============

Well said. Try posting an anti-Paul message on craigslist. It will be flagged within minutes. They are exactly like a cult where their leader can do or say no wrong. And for all the talk of freedom and returning to the constitution, his supporters stifle free speech at any chance they get. If that ain't irony I don't know what is.

It is really scary to me that he is getting 5% in polls. Really scary. I expect the loonies on HP to support him. I'm just shocked that there are so many of them out there.

Malcolm said...

>Bitterrenter said...
>No one pays 50% of their earnings >in taxes.

Not always the case. I own a business, so I have to pay taxes twice: once as an employee, once as an employer. In 2006, my total tax debt worked out to 50.31%

Of course I'm painfully honest. I don't hide money, I report 100% and balance my books to the penny....darn ethics.

Anonymous said...

Bitterrenter said...

No one pays 50% of their earnings in taxes. No one. Well, not unless they're stupid. The IRS figures show the most anyone pays is 22%. Add state and local and you'll still not get to 50%.

================================
Dumbfuck, add up federal income tax, state income tax, payroll tax, sales tax, property tax (whether you own or rent you still pay it), car registration tax, gas tax, liqour tax, tobacco tax, FCC taxes on your cell phone bill, FAA taxes every time you fly, highway tolls, etc.

It is well over 50% of my income. You must be the lone nutsack in America who thinks taxes are too low. And I do wish you'd kill yourself already.

Anonymous said...

I'm convinced bitterrenter is really Keith in disguise mixing it up some. Nobody could possibly be that stupid or that naive. The gig is up Keith, I'm onto you buddy.

sgt rock said...

"I managed to save 6 years of salary and live debt free despite never making much more than the median for my area. Does that challenge your negative stereotype of a liberal?"

No, it just confirms you are the real world version of the pony-tailed, Birkenstock clad teacher (Mr. van Driessen) from Beavis & Butthead.

Have you figured a way to use the methane from the composting toilet to cook your food?

drbungis said...

Bitterrenter says:

"Small, ineffective, hands-off governments are associated with backwards, corrupt, third world countries. Think central America, Africa. Large, active central governments are associated with first world, advanced countries. Think Europe and Canada."

I was born in Europe. Most of governments are not efficient. Think Soviet Union. Or Sweden, who could afford such system because they sold iron ore to Germans and everyone else in years of high demand (1939-1945) and now they can not afford that any more. There is no incentive to work there since you do not get rewarded for work. In my specialty (science) Europeans flock to US since in Europe they are underpaid and overregulated.

Bitterrenter said...

I still don't believe anyone pays 50% in taxes. Don't forget SS and Medicare returns to you and aren't really taxes per se. But don't forget all the things you get for those taxes.

No, not a Birkenstock wearing liberal. I don't believe in sustainability and have little idealism left.

Your Jewish Master said...

A dissenting minority is showing itself.
Probably paid for by the republican party, eh? ;)

Malcolm said...

Iowa is Key.

If you know anyone from Iowa, please pass this on (and apologies for the shameless self-promotion)

http://malcolmrant.blogspot.com/2007/11/message-to-iowa.html

Anonymous said...

DID ANY SEE THIS BULLSHIRT?

Another crass and pathetic smear attempt against Ron Paul failed yesterday as some news organisations, including the AP, attempted to link the Congressman to a pimp without making it clear that the entire charade was an idiotic stunt set up by MSNBC’s Tucker Carlson.

The obvious suggestion here was that Ron Paul has been soliciting such endorsement. However, as mentioned and somewhat glossed over at the very end of the article, it was Tucker Carlson who contacted Hof to ask him to check out Ron Paul and arrived with him at Ron Paul’s Reno news conference along with two of Hof’s prostitutes. The media in attendance jumped on the opportunity to focus in on the ridiculous publicity stunt which had nothing to do with Ron Paul's campaign whatsoever.