February 04, 2008

HousingPANIC Quote of the Day

"The one sure way to prolong a depression is to resist it..."

– Walter Lippmann, Sept. 1931

49 comments:

Marky Mark said...

"The one sure way to prolong a depression is to resist it..."

Just like the massive government programs of FDR and what the government is trying to do today...

Marky Mark

Anonymous said...

Wisdom from the past? This is the same guy that proposed that we exchange our Jupiter bases in Turkey for the status of Russian missiles in Cuba as a political way to resolve the '62 crisis. This, after Kennedy had already established the blockade and was intent on defending the Monroe Doctrine and the Rio pact.
Eventually this was a type of "secret" agreement, but as a journalist, Lippmann risked our national security by overtly suggesting such a resolution in newspapers around the world, in countries that did not know what the real situation was regarding treaties and NATO, it seemed logical, but was impractical due to the situation at the time.
I would use caution when trying to resource intellectuals like this.

Anonymous said...

The incumbents just want to make it through November then it can all cave in

bitterrenter said...

Marky savage,

If not for the programs of FDR, the 25% that were locked out of the economy back then would have risen up and murdered the rich. We would have joined the Soviets in communism too.

I would have preferred that outcome but it worked out the way FDR did it too.

PS. If not for the programs of FDR and other liberals, you and yours would be living in mud huts and shitting outdoors.

Anonymous said...

PS. If not for the programs of FDR and other liberals, you and yours would be living in mud huts and shitting outdoors.
February 04, 2008 3:31 PM

Marky Mark may want to check out the WPA. A large part of our current infrastructure (bridges,highways, dams, etc) was built by the hard working people involved in WPA, and it kept millions of Americans from starvation.

FDR believed that you needed to work and produce in order to receive a handout. There was no welfare. You worked your ass off for a pittance that kept you and your family from starving. So those in line at the soup kitchens were put to work. Our current Administration talks out one side of its mouth that there shall be no welfare for the poor, and then provides welfare to the rich.

Get a book and read about the Great Depression before you spout off and broadcast your ignorance.

Thanks to our current gaggle of conservative creeps and their supply side bullshit we all get to participate in Great Depression 2.0 coming to a theater near you in the next 5 years.

You might be lucky and get to help re-build the bridges that are collapsing all over the country, instead of blogging all day long and munching Cheetos, while you spout off platitudes that sound "cool" to impress your other equally ignorant friends.

Marky Mark said...

PS. If not for the programs of FDR and other liberals, you and yours would be living in mud huts and shitting outdoors.

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you...

For taking 50% of my paycheck every week and putting a massive debt on myself and my children that will crush us all.

Marky Mark

Anonymous said...

.



Captain of the TITANIC,


"Just keep bailing and keep me informed"!


.

Anonymous said...

Whatever you resist will persist.

tangelo mozilo said...

bitterrenter said . . .

"If not for the programs of FDR, the 25% that were locked out of the economy back then would have risen up and murdered the rich."
----------------------------

There are two kinds of liberals:

1. The ones who think that people are too stupid to take care of themselves.

2. The ones who are afraid the unwashed masses will revolt if the government fails to satiate them.

You are the second kind.

Anonymous said...


PS. If not for the programs of FDR and other liberals, you and yours would be living in mud huts and shitting outdoors.


Yeah, that pretty much is my standard of living after I pay federal, state and local taxes. Mud isn't that bad, though, in fact it is doubleplus-good.

eric in vegas said...

"The incumbents just want to make it through November then it can all cave in"

Winner! If all this shit was going down in 2009 they wouldn't be doing a damn thing.

Bitterrenter said...

Nobody in this country pays a 50% tax rate. NO ONE. The highest paid is around 22% effective rate and if you're playing on the blogs, you ain't one of them.

Government exists to build up society and lead towards progress. Until the conservatives starting their war against government and civilized behavior, the system worked well.

Again, if not for the government's organization and committment to the greater good, the vast majority of you, of us, would be dirt poor and desperate. Go look at countries with weak, ineffective governments and you will find third-world status.

It's just too easy to have benefited from civilization and then want to criticize it. Ignorance makes you do that. Total ignorance and profound selfishness.

It's quite appalling.

michael said...

"If not for the programs of FDR and other liberals, you and yours would be living in mud huts and shitting outdoors."

self reliant hardy individuals who knew how to grow their on food and construct strong secure dwellings with their bare hands.

or

mud dwelling outdoor field shitters.

my convservative God fearing ancestors chose the first option.

unfortunately your liberal counterparts are made to feel their only choice is the second.

douchebag.

CalisDead said...

Just take your anti-depressants and you will no longer be depressed. Gawd you people are stupid.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...


PS. If not for the programs of FDR and other liberals, you and yours would be living in mud huts and shitting outdoors.

Anonymous answered:

Yeah, that pretty much is my standard of living after I pay federal, state and local taxes. Mud isn't that bad, though, in fact it is doubleplus-good.

Do you live in Haiti? They make mud cookies now and take them to market to sell to the other starving Haitians. Yup these are some worthless, shiftless, lazy, liberal, welfare queens. For sure. Motherfucking Haitians. They don't pay a dime in taxes either.

They love their doubleplus-good, yummy mud cookies check it out:

http://tinyurl.com/2lymp4

Mammoth said...

Does anyone here know what percent of their tax dollar goes to support the poor & those on welfare? What percent goes toward so-called 'feel good' govt. programs for the needy?

I do not know the exact figure, but I would wager that it is a VERY SMALL percentage of your taxes.

The rest of your tax dollar goes toward:
- War in Iraq (i.e. subsidizing Halliburton & Co).
- "Pet Projects" for the various states' senators & congressmen (i.e. subsidizing their local bisinesses and campaign contributors).
- Waste. This is one thing which the govt. is REALLY good at - using your tax dollars in the most inefficient means possible.
- Foreign Aid. Maybe only 5% goes to this, but why should the US borrow money to give away to other countries, many of whose officials pocket the money?

-Mammoth

Bitterrenter said...

Dear Michael,

More than likely, your conservative ancestors were sent into the woods to be eaten by predators due to their inability to understand the concept of "the common good", their resistance to contributing to it and their insistence on fucking all the other members of the community out of their resources.

There isn't a conservative alive worth a shit nor the dirt to bury them under.

Anonymous said...

Blogger CalisDead said...

Just take your anti-depressants and you will no longer be depressed. Gawd you people are stupid.

I believe that your blow up realtywhore is leaking air from being thrown off the cliff everyday. Better go pump her up.

Bitterrenter said...

To attempt an answer to Mammoth:

At it's peak, welfare consumed 7% of the budget. That was a long time ago and before 'reform". And the majority of the money goes to house and feed poor women and children. A small price to pay for the return to our souls.

But apparently not for conservatives who lay awake nights worrying that someone is living with some dignity on their dime. And I truly mean dime.

Meanwhile, most of them fully support the trillion dollars we're spending in Iraq. Perverse.

Anonymous said...

Bitterrenter said...
Nobody in this country pays a 50% tax rate. NO ONE. The highest paid is around 22% effective rate and if you're playing on the blogs, you ain't one of them.

Government exists to build up society and lead towards progress. Until the conservatives starting their war against government and civilized behavior, the system worked well.

Again, if not for the government's organization and committment to the greater good, the vast majority of you, of us, would be dirt poor and desperate. Go look at countries with weak, ineffective governments and you will find third-world status.

It's just too easy to have benefited from civilization and then want to criticize it. Ignorance makes you do that. Total ignorance and profound selfishness.

It's quite appalling.

February 04, 2008 7:16 PM



Keep on smoking the "beef pole", yea that the ticket. People ARE paying around 50% in COMBINED taxes, ie income, sales, etc.

Stop licking dem and repub dick, two names one party...

anonie mouse said...

hey, a little advice needed here. i purchased a studio apartment in brooklyn heights about 5 years back for around 120,000. It's now worth 250,000. I'm debating whether or not to sell. Does anyone have any advice on the trajectory of the nyc market. There's so much foreign money pouring in here that I'm wary of selling. Any advice?

Marky Mark said...

Does anyone here know what percent of their tax dollar goes to support the poor & those on welfare? What percent goes toward so-called 'feel good' govt. programs for the needy?

I do not know the exact figure, but I would wager that it is a VERY SMALL percentage of your taxes.


Over 50% of the federal budget goes for entitlements (welfare, SS, food stamps, medicare, etc.). only 17% goes toward the military (an that includes ALL of the military - ships, the VA, satellites and the war)

If you don't believe me - look at the back of your IRS booklet - it has a breakdown on how your government dollar is spent

Marky Mark

Marky Mark said...

Nobody in this country pays a 50% tax rate. NO ONE. The highest paid is around 22% effective rate and if you're playing on the blogs, you ain't one of them.

OK - now add another 6% for state (NY). And another 1-5% for local. Now add in Social Security (you pay 7.5% and your employer pays 7.5%). Now add in property taxes. Now add in sales tax. Phone taxes, cable tax, occupancy tax, business tax, death taxes etc.

You are lucky to actually keep 50%...

AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION ALL YOU LIBERALS:

At what point between 0% tax and 100% tax are you a slave? I have never had a liberal answer that question with a STRAIGHT answer.

Marky Mark

Anonymous said...

Wake up folks, 100% of your federal income tax goes to pay the INTEREST on the BORROWED debt.

Enjoy the die-off

bitterrenter said...

Marky Mark,

The budget bush just submitted is ONE-THIRD for the Dept of Defense. Is that 17%? Medicaid is 6.8% (2006) and "other income security (welfare) is 4.7%.

Welfare cannot be lumped in with SS or Medicare. We fund those separately.

Even assuming your erroneous figures are correct, what's wrong with spending money on the people? What else does a society exist for?

Haven't you and yours benefited greatly from a participatory system? Go on, tell me you haven't.

Bitterrenter said...

Marky savage,

That depends on what you get for your taxes. 80% isn't too much if you get the services. We've just seen a reduction in the top tax rates and cutbacks in services that make it appear as though we're getting nothing for what we pay.

You should move to one of those low tax countries and see how you fare in your mud hut with the unsanitary conditions and livability only for the top 5%.

RayW said...

That's exactly why I agreed when my ex-wife wanted a divorce...I didn't want to extend my depression any further....I cut my losses and moved on..

But on a housing related impart...the REIC has to resist the depression in the housing market...if they didn't they'd have to admit they were lying all along.

RayW said...

To Mammoth...I don't really care what part of our taxes goes to the welfare and other things...we are going to pay a little over $19,000 in Federal Income Tax alone this year so whatever it goes to pisses me off extremely.

What pisses me off the most is my taxes are subsidizing somebody elses mortgage deduction because we didn't drink the kool-aid and buy into a bubble market...and to top it off if the politicians get their way my taxes are going to bail out these idiots who took on much debt too.

Anonymous said...

Marky Mark said:

AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION ALL YOU LIBERALS:

At what point between 0% tax and 100% tax are you a slave? I have never had a liberal answer that question with a STRAIGHT answer.

Marky Mark

February 04, 2008 10:16 PM

Your conservative president has been in charge for over 7 years. Why are you paying this much in taxes? Isn't he a conservative like you? Hasn't he taken care of lowering your taxes? How come? He just sent a proposed budget for 2009 to Congress for 3.1 trillion dollars. Is this a conservative budget?

Define for all of us exactly what a liberal is and exactly what a conservative is or STFU.

The reason you have never gotten a straight answer from "Liberals" is because your questions don't make any goddamn sense. You don't know what a Liberal is. You just throw that out there every time someone doesn't agree with you. nanny nanny nanny

I am a conservative. The current regime in Washington DC who call themselves Republicans are not conservatives they are thieves.

I remember a guy in 8th grade just like you.

So, tell us what is a Liberal?

Anonymous said...

Nobody in this country pays a 50% tax rate. NO ONE. The highest paid is around 22% effective rate and if you're playing on the blogs, you ain't one of them.

Bullshit. You are ignoring the FICA, medicare, and state income taxes. For example a Californian earning a decent but not extraordinary income might be paying 28% to the feds, 9.3% to the state, and 15% to FICA and medicare (counting the employer's portion of those taxes).

Amtex said...

The amount that goes toward the military is hidden in other parts of the budget or is 'classified'...it is a lot more than 17%

And take out SS and medicare from the percentage of "entitlements"....all walks of life get these, not just liberals.

So that leaves welfare and food stamps...compare welfare to the military waste and it is a tiny amount. By the way, food stamps works out to $1 a meal.

And at least welfare money goes to buy things from local businesses.

Unlike military spending...the land of $1000 hammers and defense secretaries who go back and forth as CEOs of defense contractors.

If you did away with welfare and food stamps tomorrow the money would be funneled to the military waste, the local businesses where local people spend would go out of business.

The Republicans have so many working guys fooled its sad.

Anonymous said...

Marky Mark said:
"AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION ALL YOU LIBERALS:

At what point between 0% tax and 100% tax are you a slave? I have never had a liberal answer that question with a STRAIGHT answer."

Here is a straight answer from the biggest liberal of them all-


Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the
Herodians.

"Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are.
Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"

But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

"Caesar's," they replied.

Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

Matthew 22:15-22

CalisDead said...

I dont need blow up sex doll buddy! I have 100's of ex-realestate agents that will have sex for food.

edd said...

For those not following this ...
During the last six months,
revelations have been slow
and incomplete. Now such resistance threatens to escalate
the fallout to new levels.

Even with recent urgent efforts
to prop up the crucial bond
insurers, uncertainties about
losses, and the maze of potential
liabilities, continues to make rescue very difficult, risking
additional downgrades this month, with a cascade of fallout far beyond the bond insurers.

Cramer's suggestion looks good at
this point, in place of the
"stimulus package", since the bond
insurer mess must be cleaned up,
and soon.
(terms:"monoline";"bond insurers")

DTEJD said...

NOBODY PAYS 50% IN TAXES? Have you ever owned/run a business? I can very easily show how someone pays more than 50% of their income in taxes. Correct me if I am wrong....

Family member lives in Michigan. He runs a solo practice in Detroit. He pays top bracket FEDERAL INCOME TAX, he pays STATE INCOME TAX, he pays CITY INCOME TAX

Federal Income tax is about 33%
SS & FICA is about 15.3%, this is from DOLLAR ONE to about $105K
Michigan State Income tax is about 4%
Detroit Income Tax is 2.5%

This totals approximately 54.8%, FICA starts dropping off around $100K.

BUT WAIT, he also pays Michigan business tax of about $500 a year, which is about .005 of income. This puts him at around 55.3%. Detroit also has a personal property tax for business, I will admit that is small, but it is perhaps .0035 of income.

Additionally, he has state certification/membership dues. Not strictly a tax, but he can't legally work without paying it...that is about .007 of income.

There is also a VERY burdensome REAL property tax in Detroit, about 2.5% of the value of the real estate. That is a few thousand a year, maybe 2-3% more of his income.

These taxes ARE MANDATORY, and there is no away around them if you want to have a job and house and be legal.

To be fair to the government, the first 15K of income is taxed very lightly. BUT there are also taxes that I have forgotten. Also there is a "tax" of paying an accountant to do this, about another 1-2% of income. There is no way that he could do it himself.

Also please don't forget gasoline taxes, and sales taxes. Please also don't forget vehicle registration taxes. This is easily another 2-3% of income.

I am sure he can give me other taxes that I have forgotten, and my accounting is not 100% accurate. HOWEVER, it is REASONABLY ACCURATE. He is approaching a 60% tax on income.

It was worse years ago....
Is it fair that he has studied for YEARS to learn his profession, AND WORKS A STRESSFUL JOB AND WORKS 50+ HRS. A WEEK, to give more than half to the government?

Correct me if I am wrong!

RJ said...

I don't believe anyone here disputes that the recession we are now experiencing (the NBER doesn't officially call a recession until 12-18 months after we've been in one) was do to a massive credit boom of epic proportions. The asset inflation that occurred was unsustainable and a bust was inevitable. If the government tries to reinflate in the face of massive budget deficits ($53 trillion) we'll see a spike in long term interest rates, which ironically, will provide temporary support for the dollar . Rising interest rates will drive the economy further into recession or depression while massive injections of liquidity will create bubbles somewhere - possibly in overseas markets. This is not a deflationary recession. It is stagflationary. M3 has been growing annually by around 15% (See shadowstats.com)despite a decline in M1 and M2. Consequently, there's no way out. This recession is going to be bad regardless of what is done by the FED or the government.

Anonymous said...

Borrow, borrow, borrow, like there is no tommorrow.

RJ said...

With regard to the welfare statists (I don't mean that perjoratively) I agree that FDRs government works programs were a reasonable expenditure despite the deficits. However, there effectiveness in pulling the country out of the depression is questionable considering that the economy took another huge downturn in 1937-38. I believe it took the "military-industrial" complex to really get the country back to work. Be that as it may, the country is in worse shape now then it was then because we possessed real wealth in the form of an industrial base turning out real goods instead of CDOs, MBSs, Credit Default Swaps and every other form of debt based financial alchemy conceived in hell. You cannot build an economy out of paper nor can you fund a welfare state on perpetual deficits.

Anonymous said...

Those watching the subprime debacle and waiting for "the other shoe to drop" are in for an unpleasant surprise: it will soon be raining shoes.

michael said...

"Nobody in this country pays a 50% tax rate."

lol...this idiotic statement is absolute proof you are completely misinformed.

now i can stop reading at:

bitterrenter said...

thank you

WINGS said...

bitterenter said:

"There isn't a conservative alive worth a shit nor the dirt to bury them under."

There's you, and you're worth a big pile of doggy sh*t.

Gawd made dirt.
Dirt won't hurt.
Gawd made sh*t,
go eat it!

Anonymous said...

anomie mouse.... what i remember about new york taxes is that in 8 years you will pay the "value" you paid to buy again in taxes and not be able to sell for a third of tax assessed ammounts

Bitterrenter said...

Dear dtejd and the other selfish, spoiled savages,

NO ONE pays 50% tax. NO ONE. Well, unless you're a total f*cking idiot and don't know what the word "deduction" means.

Yes, the top rate is 33% but no one PAYS IT. The IRS will tell you that the highest percentage effectively paid is around 22%. All the numbers you quote me of your poor persecuted imaginary friends in Michigan, Poukeepsie or wherever are assuming the top rates with no deductions. Believe me, I KNOW people with their own businesses and they pay less than I do, less than MOST do. It's called DEDUCTIONS that greatly REDUCE the tax rates.

In fact, they pay LESS of a tax rate the more they make. Go read "Perfectly Legal" or "Free Lunch" by David Cay Johnston and see who is making out like bandits in this piece of crap country of wealth-worshippers. But since I know many of you can read but not COMPREHEND it's probably useless to make such a suggestion.

bitterrenter said...

Here's a fact for you uneducated walking brainstems:

In 2004 the top EFFECTIVE tax rate paid by the top 1% of income earners was 26%. That's according to the CBO. [Go look it up.]

IS that 50%?

That same top 1% pay only 2% payroll tax rate. That's compared to the 10.7% rate paid by the middle quintile of income earners.

But it's those poor people who are taking you idiots down, right?

How do you guys manage to remember to breathe?

Anonymous said...

Bitterrenter your wrong. We are taxed on everything and are effectively paying 50-60+% taxes in USA. We do not get the social benefits either like free health care. Yes we are taxed like a Social Society but do not get all the social benefits. What suckers we are?

LauraVella said...

Anomie mouse said:"There's so much foreign money pouring in here that I'm wary of selling. Any advice?

I'd sell. Doesnt matter about foreign money because the foreigners only buy commercial, not individual residents, or condo buildings.

Research the recession from the early 1980's. The Japanese bought our commercial buildings and golf courses, here and in Hawaii. Then then had to sell everything when their stock/real estate market burst.

When the US goes into recession, so does other countries. No one will come out of this in every good shape.

Winston Churchill said...

Just like the massive government programs of FDR and what the government is trying to do today...

Marky Mark

Dear Underwear Boy,
Please tell us how FDR by bringing us back to our constitution prolonged the depression.

I can hardly wait to read your account of this period in our history.

Joe said...

The highest paid is around 22% effective rate and if you're playing on the blogs, you ain't one of them.


Bitterrenter:

I'm not going to take sides in the whole socialism/libertarian thing, but this just isn't true. How do I know? I just finished my federal, state and local taxes.

Without counting taxes on my gasoline, food, property, cable, internet, phone, anything else I might buy, I'm already paying a 24% effective income tax. It's worse if I consider social security as tax as well, which I might as well since I don't believe that I'll see much of it again.

No offense, I just think you might be forgetting a lot of things with that 22% number.

Bitterrenter said...

If your federal, state and local taxes on your income add up to 24%, there's no way you'll get anywhere NEAR 50% based on FEES charged to you by corporations. After all, no one forced you to get cable or buy lots of stuff to pay sales tax.

24% isn't bad. Do you think it should be free to live in a first world country with all the bells and whistles? Do you think that clean, safe water coming out of the tap just happened due to the generosity of some corporation? The police? Fire? Educating your kids? Building your fabulous infrastructure? Keeping your parents in health care?

Where do you get the idea that living here should be free?

So like I said, NO ONE pays 50%.