September 04, 2007

HousingPANIC Stupid Question of the Day

Is the social stigma of "owning" a home (renting money from a bank in order to sleep in a rapidly depreciating asset) now worse than renting?


BONUS: Heard in a Scottsdale nightclub: "Ooh, I don't think you should go home with that guy. I hear he's got an interest-only, negative-am on one of those Optima condos. Yeah, the ones that have lost half their value. And I think his car is leased and he lost his job as a mortgage broker"

Somethin like that... Actual picture from dirtyscottsdale

32 comments:

Agent #777 said...

No, I don't think we are there yet. I don't know if it will ever be a stigma, but more of a "oh, you must be rich to be able to afford all those taxes, HOA fees and insurance" (especially the last here in FL).

Anonymous said...

classic!

Frank@NeverColdCall.com said...

Actually in Scottsdale they still look down on renters as common criminal 2nd-class scum, even though the "owners" with their noses up in the air are going into default.

Anonymous said...

Believe me...I actually will ask a girl about her housing status before I date her in the future. I really don't feel like marrying into hundreds of thousands of unsecured debt in the future.

hendry said...

Ask her about credit card debt too. Filing for bankuptcy is alot harder these days.

Anonymous said...

Damn that guys a tool!

Anonymous said...

Do guys like that pay for haircuts like that?

John S said...

No, I'm doing fine in my 30 yr fixed at a Greenspan interest rate. Renting wouldn't allow me to keep my 3 dogs, 3 motorcycles, 2 SUVs and high-end sports car. (I could use some carbon credits, though.) And I did marry a girl with 20K in credit card debt. Paid it off and she's brought in $700K in income since then. And you young guys, good luck finding a women with less than 10-20K credit card debt. And another 20K in student loans these days.

Anonymous said...

Renting will always have a stigma.


Even with all this mess going on I would still rather own than rent, unless the renting was for a very short one or 2 year time period in between owning with the purpose being to snatch a new house up at a lower price.

I don't understand how you can ever feel comfortable in a place you don't own. Can't paint the walls, can't have a dog, have to live next to lower class of people. Its just not worth it.

hnedry said...

I rent a house right next to people who pay more than double of what I pay to live in the same neighborhood. I have 2 cars and 2 dogs. I painted my boodroom ceiling baby blue to help me sleep better. Only suckers are buying at today's prices. When one of my neighbors goes into foreclosure, I might buy their old place and save $250,000 off the 2005 prices.

Anonymous said...

My 4.5 acres of dirt, that happens to have a nice new home on it is PAID IN FULL. Every 6 months I have to pay rent (RE TAXES) to the State, but other than that I have room to roam without bumping elbows with the neighbors.

Have 4 vechiles, 1 motorcycle, 1 power boat, open fire pit in backyard, 2400 sq. ft. outbuilding; and 3000 sq. ft. in the main house plus a fully finished basement w/ gameroom.

Invested apx $380K in the midwest for the whole property.

100% Satisfied. BTW the prop is less than 25% of my net worth. Could care less what the market value of it is year to year--- my kids will get it when I die.

The $380K + all the RE TAXES over the years is COST OF LIVING THE LIFESTYLE that I want!!!

Face it, do you bitch and complain when that new car you drive off the showroom floor instantly drops several thousand in value? Hell no, because you expect to keep the car for a few years at least--- whatever the drop in value during the time you keep it is ---- cost of getting what you want.

REALITY CHECK. Renting sucks. Can't do what you want... Have a landlord over you, etc. That said, if I was poor I would rent vs. using leverage to buy into a bubble on some piece of crap track home.

So for poor people, [anyone who has to use a mortage to buy dirt], stop the bleeding. Refuse to support the bankers. Refuse to pay more that 20% of your net income for housing related expenses.

I'm just a middle aged average guy. My old high school friends (who are living in a sea of debt) think I won the lottery or something.

All I did was live way below my means for 15 years in a dirt cheap condo; saved and invested my money instead of paying MORTGAGE INTREST EXPENSES. Then bought the DIRT of my dreams outright, fixed the place up the way I liked, and plan to live on this patch of DIRT the rest of my life!!!

The bankers get no interest revenue out of me! Never have, never will.

Mammoth said...

“Is the social stigma of "owning" a home (renting money from a bank in order to sleep in a rapidly depreciating asset) now worse than renting?”
---------------------
Wow Keith, you are going over the top on this one.

Better to word the question:
“Is the social stigma of having RECENTLY purchased a home now worse than renting?

Anonymous said...

I hate to admit it, but I get a regal kick out of "Scottsdale Sucks" and "Dirty Scottsdale". They seem to exemplify everything that went wrong with the housing "boom" with the simple click of a mouse! Have these people lost their minds or what!?

Let's talk briefly about how much better it is to be surrounded by "owners" vice renters.

Perhaps there was a time when you might... have gotten a better class of people by moving to an area of mostly "owned" homes. Not so any more. Since we decided anybody that could fog a mirror deserves to "own" a home you've got just as many clueless freaks hanging out there as ANY apartment complex! Get with it.

If you have whacked out neighbors next to your rental home you can always move. Now that we've gone from EVERYONE QUALIFIES (to... NO ONE QUALIFIES) you're stuck with neighbors that see nothing wrong with cars up on blocks for months at a time! Good luck with that.

DinOR

Anonymous said...

Alright already! We get it! RENTING SUCKS!!

But bankruptcy and foreclosure is much, much worse.

Anonymous said...

"you're stuck with neighbors that see nothing wrong with cars up on blocks for months at a time!"
-----------
Don't forget the Oregon state flag (i.e. blue tarp) on the neighbor's roof.

Ha ha LOL!

coffee is for closers still solvent said...

Instead of having a DWI page, that site should have a negative equity page featuring the amount and their mug shot...

Anonymous said...

"Don't forget the Oregon state flag"

LOL!

Yeah, we DO love our "flag" now don't we? Back when getting a home loan would've required a DNA sample (if they had them back then) you were typically around people that had skin in the game.

Now, even "prime borrowers" have become addicted to zero down financing as the sale of their former home barely covers "most" of their previous debts. So what we have is an entire country that is now on the "zero down plan".

Becoming an "owner" used to be something special. That's why it "queers" with people these days when the find out "you're JUST a renter" b/c even illegals (evidently) "qualified"!

So what unspeakable horrors could lie in your past that you can't "qualify"? Try... common sense?

DinOR

linkon said...

>>>I don't understand how you can ever feel comfortable in a place you don't own. Can't paint the walls, can't have a dog, have to live next to lower class of people. Its just not worth it. <<<

You are a moron. I rent a 4 bedroom 3,500 sft/house in Arcadia (with my dog!), right next door John Sperling, the richest person in Arizona, and one of the best schools in the state. I do not pay for the pool, hot tub, yard or other maintence on my half-acre lot.

My rent is $3,000 month and I have over one million in cash. Oh, by the way, I have no debt, several paid for vehicles and make between $300K and $400K .... I feel VERY "comfortable in a place [I] don't own."

Anonymous said...

I just realized some thing. I could rent ***2*** of the same apt I live in now (2 bd/1 bth, 1 gar spot, storage with own wash/dry, top line kitchen) for less than I could buy a house I' ve been looking at!

Anonymous said...

Renting has still a stigma. When it doesn't anymore, maybe it's the right time to buy?

Owner about renting:
> Can't paint the walls, can't have a dog, have to live next to lower class of people.

The wall painting argument comes up all the time - do owners paint all the time? I'm happy with white when I can hang put my stuff up, but I could paint if I paint it white again when moving out. We have a cat, our renting neighbours have dogs, and writing about "lower class" is trolling. Go, Keith, get them!

keith said...

Do people paint their walls so much that its worth losing tens of thousands of dollars a year for?

Weird

Anonymous said...

What makes all these trolls think that all renters are living in section 8 housing in the hood?

I rent a 600k condo for under 1700/mo.

One of my neighbors is renting a 1.2M condo for 3000.

And no HOA, Taxes, etc etc for us.

Frank@NeverColdCall.com said...

Renting will always have a stigma.

Hmm ... in my community in Newport Beach, CA about half of us are renters and we make fun of the people who "bought" post-2002. The owners in the community all bought in the 1990s (live in a house long term - what a concept!) and they also make fun of anyone who bought post-2002.

When I lived in Scottsdale, people definitely looked own on me for renting but in Newport they just don't care. Maybe it's because everyone is generally happy here ... and that's why they could care less that I rent ... hmm...........

have to live next to lower class of people. Its just not worth it.

Hmm, my next-door neighbor is a doctor, the lady across the street is a CFO, and the guy next door to her is a big developer ... yes, I really live next to lower class people in my rented house.

People like you are ignorant, insecure, and are generally failures in life, which is why you have to wave your flag of "ownership" since it's the only status symbol you'll ever have.

Now go answer the phone, I'm sure it's the mortgage co looking for their payment, or some other bill collector.

Anonymous said...

The problem for a lot of renters is that to live in a nice rental, you have to be prepared to move at the owner's discretion, which sucks. You could end up moving once a year. I tried renting a house and it was a very nice experience, good neighborhood, lots of space, garage, etc. I'd still be there, except that the owner sold it out from under me when my lease expired. Your other choice is to live in a permanent rental, which around here is either an old, small, and somewhat run-down house in a blue-collar neighborhood or an apartment in a dense multi-story building. A close friend is still renting while hoping for the bottom to drop out of our market, meanwhile she has had to put up with noisy dogs that are way too large for 700sf apartments, subwoofers, smokers and BBQs that send the smoke into her windows, loud late-night drunken revelry in the common areas, and even the occasional police raid. People routinely stop paying their rent to squeeze out a few more months before getting evicted. Her place is far from being a hell-hole in the bad part of town. It's just that personal responsibility and courtesy to others have fallen so far in America, and let's face it, a lot of people just don't give a crap about things they don't own (think rental cars). None of my friends who rents feels stimatized, nor should they. Mostly in the party chit-chat they beat themselves up, for not holding their noses and buying years ago.

Anonymous said...

Sheeesh, what back-asswards kinds of places do you all live?
We CHOSE to lease our townhouse in the Northern VA area because houses are tanking in value right now, AND renting is less than half of what this joint would cost to buy...(Our rent is #2,000).
We have 2 dogs and 2 cats, and our landlords are okie dokie with the whole thing. Houses that we like in this area are still 800-1,000,000, and we won't vulture in on one of those until we see more blood in the streets.

John S said...

" What makes all these trolls think that all renters are living in section 8 housing in the hood?"

I take it you never worked in Washington, D.C.

Drug deals, vandalized cars, armed home invasion, and this is in the nice areas...

Sure you can rent a townhouse -- now -- since the D.C. housing market is in the toilet. And hopefully the bank will let you stay there for a few days after the townhouse is sold in auction.

Or burned down in the middle of the night for insurance.

Anonymous said...

Renting is the only smart way to go now, and with as many houses are on the market, the renters are calling the shots...if the landlord's dont take the deal, they lose.

Buying now makes as much sense the proverbial screen door on a submarine.

Anonymous said...

RENTING....
Unless you have paid your house off, you are either renting from the bank, or renting from a landlord, who is renting from the bank....
"Ownership" is so damn over-rated!!

Anonymous said...

That's the trolls life story.

Anonymous said...

.



Hey Dork, take some of that cash and get a decent haircut!

Anonymous said...

Bottom line is this. Yes, when you rent your money is invested in someone else’s asset…fine…for now. Renting is not lower class. If it is lower class then I am lower class and as a “lower class” I decided to sell my home 1 year ago and walk away with 100 grand. That 100 grand is called real equity. So let’s say that I rent a place for 2 years and I spend 24 thousand dollars. Most would say I wasted 24 thousand dollars, but the truth is, in 2 years when I buy a home for 200 grand cheaper than today I SAVED 180 GRAND OVER TWO YEARS…not accounting for interest either. By the way if you do not understand, it is because you are in denial…go seek help. Denial also made the interior of banks pretty foggy for some of you that thought your equity was shit before you actually tried to sell your home, now you just have MORE LOANS! Owners that are up to their neck in loans on their homes HAVE to say that renting is stupid because they have no choice otherwise…and admitting…well maybe if they took their balls back from the bank.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure if that mattress in the photo is there because he keeps his cash under it or because it's drying out after midnight hurling during another drunken weekend.