Did anyone really want to live 50 miles out of Phoenix? Or 30 miles out of DC? Because they sure built a lot of damn homes and Wal-Marts out there, and I do remember lines and lotteries for these horrific monuments to urban planning run amok (and a disgusting waste of resources).
It was truly sad to see the houses in Maricopa Arizona go up. Families driving so, so far away, forced out of Phoenix by the stupid investor-caused ponzi scheme, only to get suckered into buying a home far, far away that now is getting more and more worthless by the day.
This happened in many cities around the country, and now that housing has crashed, the value of these exurb homes is plummeting, and they're going to quickly become new foreclosure ghost towns and a collection of financial ruin and misery.
Here's a MSM story on the trend. How sad. And how obvious.
Far-flung exurbs hard hit by housing downturn
While the housing downturn has depressed once-thriving real estate markets around the nation, far-flung suburbs of major cities have suffered the most abrupt market correction.
While the housing downturn has depressed once-thriving real estate markets around the nation, far-flung suburbs of major cities have suffered the most abrupt market correction.
Home construction in these distant exurbs has slowed and prices and sales have fallen more than those of close-in suburban neighbors since a five-year housing boom ended in the summer of 2005.
Average home prices in Loudon County, Virginia, 35 miles outside of Washington, D.C., fell roughly 11 percent in 2006, according to the Northern Virginia Association of Realtors. By contrast, Virginia's Arlington County, which hugs the nation's capital, saw a price decline of only about 2 percent.
"It's been hard for sellers to comprehend, and I'm usually the bearer of bad news," said Mike Wagner, a real estate broker who works in Loudon. "The news is: Your home is worth $100,000 less than it was a year and a half ago."
The same holds true for California, where exurban housing markets have softened more than those close to urban centers.
Now, real estate agents in the exurbs trying to sell a glut of new homes, along with the inventory of previously owned houses.
"I think it was easy for builders to think that there were real users in these fringe areas far from jobs and entertainment," he said. "In fact, we found that purchases in those areas over the last three years or so ... were speculators and not users."
57 comments:
Paging Robert Coté ... paging Robert Coté ...
Most larger cities are multinodal for work centers. In PHX you have Scottsdale to the north in addition to the CBD and you have Ahwatukee/Chandler to the south and to the west the beginnings of Buckeye's. Exurbia will draw the jobs out further over time. Remember at one time Scottsdale was wayout that was why Frank LLoyd Wright located Taliesen west there.
Keith is wrong (on this). I've explained it ad nasuem. It's a waste of time to use logic and census data going back to 1910 and BLS trend data from 1950 and FHWA from 1960 and EPA from 1972 and... to argue against such a firmly entrenched conclusion that feels the need to search out any supporting speculation.
Another one bites the dust!
Yet another sub-prime lender went under this morning.
reminds me of this post I did a while back: We have officially ran out of street names.
Thrush can be a bird, but thrusch can also be vaginal yeast infection. A builder over at Perris (exurb far far away from metro LA) decided to name a street in their development Thrush Way, as in Vaginal Yeast Infection Way.
Who would want to raise a family for 20-30 years on Vaginal Yeast Infection Way? But would speculators care? No, and so they bought en masse. At the time of my posting 4 of these Thrush Way homes sat empty, listed by the various speculators hoping to find a greater fool.
perfect example that far flung exurb developments over the last few years were build exclusively for flippers to sell to other flippers in order to sell to additional flippers. As keith would put it, a pyrimad scheme thru and thru.
Another thing to consider is the property taxes increase that is sure to come. Overpriced sh*tholes that have just been abandoned by everyone, speculators, FB's in general, banks, etc, will be put in "uncollectable" status by the tax gods. This from my local tax collector who admitted privately that this is a growing problem, and we are not even in a bubble area here.
All of those housing price run-ups had tax increases to go with them, solely do to price, not actual value. Your civil servants have allotted themselves higher pay, additional personnel in their departments, larger contributions to the state/county/local pension funds, and lots of signed and sealed contracts for municipal buildings, road improvements, infrastructure maintenance, new schools, etc., based on those increased tax revenues.
Government unlike housing, actually NEVER DOES GO DOWN IN PRICE or size. Government's idea of trimming the fat is to reduce the INCREASE of next years budget!
When revenues start dropping as the real population decreases, and its already happening in some areas of my county, the municipal total tax bill does not.
Government employees do not take pay cuts, there departments are never really downsized (lay offs), the sacred pension fund is never, NEVER slighted, and all those projects have to be completed.
For example. You have 20 houses on your street, $1000/year property tax on currant-inflated values, $20,000 total expected from your street by the tax Gods.
But now due to bankruptcy, foreclosure, abandonment, etc., you only have 15 homeowners paying into the system. Solution: everybody who is left standing has their already outrageous taxes go up 33% to make up the loss. Now even more people can't afford their homes and the downward spiral continues.
Can't afford the house, can't afford the gas to work or the car, can't afford the taxes, and not even welfare recipients are going to live this far out in section 8 housing.
We are going to see a lot of ghost towns.
In charlotte NC, not only are they building houses en masse in far flung suburbs on 15 miles of 1 lane roads with 100 lights, they are also building very very very close to South carolina's trailer country, and they are building the most $$$ houses there. Waxhaw NC is a favorite and its the hell hole of NC.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
Exurbs are for those who cannot afford the safe neighborhoods close in, and have been ethnically cleansed by the threat of rape and robbery from other, cheaper neighborhoods. Nobody likes to drive and hour or two to work, but its better than your daughter being raped and your son joining a gang.
We need a revolution in the US (again).
Where does all that scum, seeking cheap houing and riches in Arizona,
come from?
What kind of illiterate desperados is this country producing?
Is the American dream of "making it",is now living in a cookie-cutter box,driving a hunk of Detroit junk, shopping at Wal-Mart and eating at Applebee's ?
It is possible for a rambler in Arlington Va to be inspired by Frank Lloyd Wright or worth 400K?
Hey Cow Tipping,
I am to transfer for my work and was looking in Waxhaw. What else is wrong with this deal???
This might be an example where a libertarian view ends up resulting in something not beneficial to anybody. If we had - regulations (shudder) - so that new construction subdivisions had met requirements for energy self-sufficiency, some plan for local products, local work, some idea that long commutes might be under great risk in the near term due to oil scarcity, the surplus of building might have had a good chance of being assimilated over time. As it stands now, we've built possibly millions of ugly, useless, horribly constructed energy hogs that risk simply decaying like dinosaur bones. They're about the same size, too. What a tragic waste and total lack of vision. And they'll be with us as a testament to greed and stupidity for many years.
I think these exurbs will be perfect for public housing. Since those leeches don't work, they won't have to deal with the commute into the city. All they will need is a few Walmarts and liquor stores and they're set for life. The McMansions out there will be perfect for those single mothers with 10 chilluns from 7 different boyfriends.
"Is the American dream of "making it",is now living in a cookie-cutter box,driving a hunk of Detroit junk, shopping at Wal-Mart and eating at Applebee's ?"
My wife and kids are VERY happy with their cookie cutter Exurb home, thank you very much. I am very happy with my 1400 a month pre-bubble purchase. And no, I dont drive 2 hours into LA. I took a paycut and drive 15 minutes to work.
Now, if you ask my co worker if his wife is happy living in an apartment with 2 kids because he didnt make a move in 2003..if she is happy. Probably not. DOH!
Prince william county VA exurb of DC may be one of the best examples.
Formerly a trailer trash cousin f@cking construction worker bedroom community is now in a fiscal crisis due to tax base not growing fast enough. The builders slowed their delivery Mcmansions. Its already the suburb of choice for MS-13 and a dozen Arabs in a 3 bedroom house.(Probably doing paintball traing in the woods)
The white homedebters are screwed.
Last year a guy I worked with and his wife wanted to buy a house, any house. So they bought one 40 miles out of town in a two horse town that hasn't boomed, since, oh, about 1910.
Then he got laid off from his job in the city(and so did the wife). So now he commutes about 80 miles every day to work a part time job (couple of 4 or 5 hours shifts each week).
I figure he pays more for gas than he earns. But stupid is as stupid does.
Small town Wis.
There are pluenty of walmarts and targets here in arizona.I think walmart is trying to build as many stores as possible before they get the NIMBY's over here.I think a lot of peoples hobbies here include shopping, eating out and spa treatments.
The Best item yet this year:
;
Says it all from LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-foreclose13feb13,0,791237,full.story
I used to work in DC and commuted 1 hour each way everyday. I could not have affored to live close and still own a SFH in an outstanding school district. I have no interest in living in a condo box or an apartment. I didn't use the vaunted DC metro (even though I could have) becuase it cost more and took longer than driving. (My car was a sunk cost since my family was not going to all get up at 6 am and drive me the 15 minutes to the metro and and pick me up.) If you live in Louden it took more than an hour to get in. I also new people who commuted 2.5 hours each way (5 hours a day) just so they could live on 4 acres of land.
Luckily I moved to Texas and have a 15 minute commute. Much better for my mental health!
My question for Keith - I work in a complex/factory that has approximately 12,000 people working in it. Where do you plan to have all these people live???
Stuck in so pa,
Also add the incentives people included in the purchase price of there homes such as trips, cars, boats etc. These items added to the purchase price increases the property tax on a home.
Why would anyone do this?
Exurb McMansions in economically unproductive areas:
the Next "Projects". Expect lots of meth labs and GrowMansions.
There will be exurban rappers and gangs fighting against their urban rivals.
At one point, Compton (LA) was a pretty nice middle-cass neighborhood.
Battleground: suburbia, USA.
Keith didnt publish an earlier comment about Prince William county VA by me. But if you want a good exurban laugh check out Haymarket, VA in www.realtor.com
or is that www.realestateclerk.com
http://tinyurl.com/ywwhz4
Lots of listings, outrageous prices, and only 20+ miles to Dulles/Reston(1 hour+ in traffic) and 35miles to DC (2 hrs in traffic).
I guess my region is different since all the jobs and entertainment seem to be moving out to the exurbs here.
I currently rent a relatively new TH (circa 2000) in Alexandria, VA and pay way too much money.
A few in the complex that were up for sale went to contract, but most were de-listed. I assume they will all be back in a few weeks.
The neighbors like to talk about the great deals they got; 200K in 2000, 300K in 2003, 500K in 2005 (but I watched cnbc so I know what's going on in the market housing), but the simple fact remains that these things are built like sh*t. Two homes in my immediate vicinity had pipes burst, siding has ripped off in wind storms, all the walls are wavy, the dishwasher fell out and the pipes sprung a leak. And,they have absolutely no energy efficiency to boot.
We also have that military problem here as well; way too many GI's in this area with their COLA's.
Just glad that I did not buy a place and am only renting the POS that I live in.
I they build some medical centers in those exurbs, retiring boomers can live there. I am looking at the Phoenix area as someplace to buy in a couple of years. After a month of freezing weather here in Omaha, I think about it a lot.
Right you are QWEEFERINO. All of a sudden people who escaped the city to avoid dealing with negroes and mexicans are goin to rush right back because housing prices have fallen a little.
I'm sure most people who commute 30,40,50 miles to work every day would prefer to commute 5 miles. But that would mean their kids go to a gang infested, 90% negro/mexican shithole instead of a 90% white school.
If and when the mexicans are sent home and the negroes are put back where they belong, then suburbs will be less appealing. Until then don'tcount on suburbia to go away.
Whoooo hooooo
Banc of Amerika employee said...
Hey Cow Tipping,
I am to transfer for my work and was looking in Waxhaw. What else is wrong with this deal???
February 13, 2007 5:17 PM
Not only are you fellow charlotte transferee ... you're also fellow Banca De americanos employee ...
OK OK I'm Not an employee at the present time, contractor ...
Waxhaw ... OK try getting up one day at say 7:30 am and getting in to trade and tryon ... then just for fun, do it the other way at ~5pm. Just for kicks do it when its rainy ... then again when its nice and warm and sunny ...
I draw the line at 30 min commute come hell or high water ... as long as you are warned about hell or high water before you leave home on the radio/TV ...
Honestly, I like SC and East Lincoln county.
The 400K price they want for cookie cutters, albeit with granite counters will get you a custom modular or in my case a true site built custom on my own 1-4 acre square in SC. BTW that 400 K sheite box will never rent for over 1800 (~50 cents a sqft) ... so you'd lose big time buying one in that $$$ ...
Craigslist has rentals that will make you cry.
Try the true old south charlotte (dilworth, cotswold, arts district, south park area) or where its cheap (cookie cutters by centex) or where you build it on your lot to your taste. The rest is all worthless. Your "custom" is someone elses crap.
You may love granite, but someone else may want corian or quatz with the integrated sinks instead.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
And no its not because in NC Cow tipping is a sport, its because cow tipping is like condo flipping.
Sooner or later, the cow's gonna get ya.
It's always soccer moms and rednecks with mullets who are driving these huge trucks and extra large SUV's. Sometimes I wish gas prices would go to $5/gal just to bankrupt those morons.
I live in an exurb and I'm perfectly content. I work from home mainly go into the city once, maybe twice a week. I live 40 miles from downtown and takes me 60-90 mins to get there depending on traffic.
I have 1.5 acres of land, a lake less than a mile from me, 3 golf courses withn a 5 minute drive, no crime to speak of.
I lived in the city in my 20s. Had a great time living the bachelor life in a rented condo. Now I'm married and in my 30s and don't spend every night at a bar or club the way I used to. When we want that it's an hour away and we still have friends in the city where we'll occasionally sleep over. I see my situation as best of both worlds. Far enough from the city to avoid its problems but close enough that if I need something from it, I'm there in an hour.
So slow down there with the bashing of exurban living. We're not all bankrupt or spending 3 hrs a day commuting. Some of us actually prefer this lifestyle.
There is a rule of thumb in DC metro area - "live inside the Beltway and work outside, such that if you have to take 495 in the morning - you drive clockwise." :-) Hope this would help other bitter renters like me...
I think these exurbs will be perfect for public housing. Since those leeches don't work, they won't have to deal with the commute into the city. All they will need is a few Walmarts and liquor stores and they're set for life. The McMansions out there will be perfect for those single mothers with 10 chilluns from 7 different boyfriends. --labron rick
Exurb McMansions in economically unproductive areas:
the Next "Projects". Expect lots of meth labs and GrowMansions.
There will be exurban rappers and gangs fighting against their urban rivals. --doctor chaos
Interesting idea. Our cities will start resembling France. During the riots a year ago, the epicenters were the suburbs/exurbs of Clichy-sous-Bois, Aulnay-sou-Bois, Clichy, le Blanc-Mesnil, Bobigny, etc. The French had the practice of putting all their unemployed Ay-rabs out in the exurbs while they themselves concentrated in central Paris.
"My question for Keith - I work in a complex/factory that has approximately 12,000 people working in it. Where do you plan to have all these people live???"
How about in one of the 18,000 or so near by housing units??
...but I watched cnbc so I know what's going on in the housing market.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Dude, if cnbc is your window to the world I sincerely feel for you.
Robert, come on out. We have 60000 plus new stucco garbage cans for you to choose from, with more being built everyday. Well, maybe not so much choice since they all mostly look alike. So what industry do you work in? Out here we have lots of jobs in the fast food industry. Working as a prison guard is always popular. We have lots of jails and prisons. There used to be a lot of dollars made in real estate but I haven't heard much from that sector lately. Anyway, welcome to 6 months of summer hell. 117 degrees is great, at least until the rolling brownouts start in a couple of years. Oh yeah, bring lots of water because we don't have much of that either and what we do have is disappearing fast. I'll wave at you on my way out of here this summer. Enjoy.
JAFO
"This might be an example where a libertarian view ends up resulting in something not beneficial to anybody. If we had - regulations (shudder) - so that new construction subdivisions had met requirements for energy self-sufficiency,...."
Not true, if people had to pay the true price (crrently subsidized) of living in suburbia, they may not have made the decision to live there. The cost of laying roads, building bridges, utilities, government services, and building schools is subsidized with no prospect of every recovering these costs from the end users. I have co-workers who complain about their high property taxes. I have to point out to them that their 3 children are costing the county (Loudoun VA) $12,000 a pop to be educated. He didn't respond when I asked him if he paid $36,000 a year in taxes. The Libertarian view point would be to have developers pay the entire cost of of infrastructure improvements necesaary to service these communities. Additionally the gas required to drive to these communities should be allowed to float to its true market price.
Rememeber, it doesn't matter what laws governments pass, the descisions of individuals rules. Economics and supply and demand will always win out.
This is HIGH-larious. Renters in decrepid 1 bed 1 bath ghetto neighborhoods commenting on the plight of exurban McMansion owners.
It's like high school all over again with you freaks. Sadly for you just like after graduation nothing changed (you were/are still losers) once the housing downturn ends you will still be living in a ghetto apartment.
Anonymous said...
I live in an exurb and I'm perfectly content. I work from home mainly go into the city once, maybe twice a week. I live 40 miles from downtown and takes me 60-90 mins to get there depending on traffic.
That is great. It is also the wave of the future. Working form home ... and then tell me what is a houe in CA worth when the same job can be done by someone in Kansas for 1/2 the $$$.
One more reason the bubble will blow and blow big.
I cannot wait for gas to hit $20 a gallon. Then telecommuting will be the order of the day and I'd prolly spend less than 1/2 on gas that we do now.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
cow tipping,
Another perfect example of how you people haven't a clue about economics. If gas ever gets to $20 a gallon all that will do is spur rapid action on making electric or ethanol or your pick your technology commerically feasible. And it's already happening at $2.50 a gallon. Cars aren't going away.
This prediction of working from home has been around for 50 years. For some people it works, for most it doesn't. Despite all the Dilbert jokes, people in general still need to work together to get things accomplished as a team. I worked from home for about 6 months and hated it. Sure I had no commute but I hated being on my own all day and having my communication consist almost entirely of emails. I missed the human interaction and went back.
Since most of you posters are probably loner losers (and show me a renter of a 1 bed apt who isn't) you'll do just fine working from home. For the rest of us, it won't happen.
"All you loser renters who live in one bed one bath ghetto apts........."
OK. One more time, just for you.
I live in a 5 bed 3.5 bath house in the best neighborhood in the county. My rent is one third what my mortgage would be on the same house. How do I know? It was for sale until I rented it. Now I save that money for a down payment as I keep one eye on all the foreclosure in progress from all you greatest fools who bought over the last 3 years.
But if it makes you happy, keep thinking we all rent crappy apartments. If you were one of those who recently purchased a house, it's just one more self-delusion to add to the list.
Bill
Anonymous said at February 14, 2007 4:08 PM
OK lets see here ... either entire offices in kansas will be working remotely on projects to be done in CA or ... they will be done in India.
I was just taking the better option. Yes human interaction ... you'd definetly want that will your cow-orkers ... cos you dont have a loving family ... see how it comes back to bite ya ...
I dont have the luxury of working from home all 5 days at this current job ... 1-2 a week unless weather is all I can, and I am always on the verge of being pulled into my boss's office for a chewing ... I misue it that much. Yea I also have a 15-30 minute commute when I do need to be in.
Before you call me a renting loser ... I own and have since 2003 and I have 5% on a 15 year fully amortising mortgage and my payments are right about par with rent right now. They were lower the last 3 years BTW.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
amortising? no wonder you're all socialists here, you're all foreigners.
"It's always soccer moms and rednecks with mullets who are driving these huge trucks and extra large SUV's. Sometimes I wish gas prices would go to $5/gal just to bankrupt those morons."
That's hilarious, because that's exactly how I feel when driving down the highway and see SUV after SUV fly past me doing 90 mph. At the same time I have to pass hundreds of SUVs going 10 miles under the speed limit.
I don't know if it's just the fact the there are more morons than ever, or that more of them buy SUV's, but it definitely seems like a trend.
And gas should get to $7.00 a gallon in the next few years, if production declines. The giant oil field in Mexico, Cantarell, declined by 25% last year, and the world's other giant fields are just as mature as Cantarell.
But $5.00 per gallon gas would almost certainly mean the end of the exurbs, as just trasportation out to these towns would push food costs up dramatically, as well as other services.
I wonder where this SUV envy comes from.
Is it that worthless feeling you get as a man when the soccer mom is driving a vehicle 5 times more powerful than your Hyundai?
Is it the realization that my 17 year old nephew drives a truck more expensive and powerful than your Honda Civic at 45?
Is is the fear that in an accident my SUV would have a dent while your Prius would be totalled and you with it?
Is it simple envy that all you can afford is a sub-compact and you vindicate your pathetic life by touting the 33 MPG?
Or is it just one more thing you hate about capitalism and America. along with suburbs, home ownership, Best Buy, Walmart etc.
Don't you imbcile socialists get it? People like their cars. When gas hit $2, the MSM and you fucknuts said nobody would drive anymore. When gas hit $3 you morons along with the MSM cried the end of the car is here. Wrong and wrong. Gas could got to $5 tomorrow and nobody would be riding a bike to work or taking the bus.
hey stuck in so pa
I got a good one for you. The school board here decided they needed a new high school,old one was to small.Took 2 years to build The f**kin thing looks like a damn resort. Taxes went up so much,people moved out of the city,me included.tax default rates went nuts,now they dont have enough kids registered to only 2/3 fill the damn thing.The state wont kick in its share of fundingbecause of not enough kids/to much building,so new high school cant open.Now taxes have to go up again even some more to pay for a addittion on the old high school because its still to damn small, but the state will contribute to that because it falls in some god damned kids to sqft ratio.The dumb sh*ts neighbors I left behind are now paying for a brand newe boarded up
dead bus of a school building which no one can use.And an addittion to the old school because thats the only way to get state money. Meanwhile the pop. leaving makes downtown look like bombed out Bagdad.
The liar loans,neg arms,and all the rest may take out the FBs,but the property taxes will take us all down. Any overpaid dipsh*t that works for any section of the govmint can GO TO HELL.
Signed also Screwed in pa
Not!I got completly out.
"Is it that worthless feeling you get as a man when the soccer mom is driving a vehicle 5 times more powerful than your Hyundai?"
You are without a doubt the epitome of everything wrong with this country today. If you can take a moment from blowing smoke up your own a*s, take a look what is happening to the Big 3 (and their middle class workers) you imbecile.
I am writing to you from a town that has/had a GM, Ford and Chrysler plant located here as recently as five years ago. Their big profits were derived from producing enormous vehicles with enormous appetites for fuel that now have no long term value in the scheme of normal American usage – that being a 30 plus one way commute from suburbia to the office cubicle or corner office job within “megla-corporation-world”. Don’t believe me, check your re-sale value from one month to the next you nimrod. Let the market be your guide, “Captain America”.
Look at the Ford Excursion. I had one for sale on my lot and the value plummeted in five short years. The production line producing this vehicle stopped just a few short years after it started – a monumental cost to Ford. The mothballed plant should be remade into a shrine to stupidity and hubris and you can be the high priest.
Judging from your little speech and speaking as someone who can drive/operate multiple pieces of equipment of various sizes and fly an airplane to boot, I’d say that you let your “ginormous SUV” make up for your other “shortcomings” both personal and physical.
You and types like you give Americans a bad name and thankfully your moment in the sun and 15 minutes of fame are over. I wretch when I think about some poor 18 year old from East Jesus, MS fighting in the middle-east so that some prick like you can enjoy the privilege of pissing away a resource and keeping your ego well fed – you want to help out the cause? – pull your head out of your a*s for a moment and think about where the countries that are killing our young men derive their wealth. Do you think it comes from selling dates and palm fronds? It’s oil you idiot and the more jokers like you are willing to pay for it, the more juice these dolts have in their pockets to pay for improvised explosive devices and payments to the families of suicide bombers. Go buy an American made small car, tell Detroit to start making something relative to today’s economic realities YESTERDAY or at a minimum, move somewhere closer to your job. Or, just keep on keeping on with your outdated attitude.
And, as a side note –
I’m guessing from your post that you really don’t think about the world outside of your little suburban bubble so let me fill you in on something.
Our agricultural system in this country depends upon huge oil inputs. The machinery, the production of fertilizer, the harvest, the processing, etc. all depends upon an abundant supply of cheap fuel. While there is debate as to whether oil is fossil fuel or a product of the inner core of the earth, the old axiom of waste not, want not should be what people think about when using a resource of any type. One day, hopefully fat a*ses like yourself (that’s an educated guess on my part) will have to choose between filling up your godda*ned gas hog SUV at any cost or feeding your 2.3 suburbia-loving offspring without the cost benefit of subsidized agriculture. WAKE UP!
Hey SUV hater,
You never did answer the question. Is it a, b, c or d that is the reason for your hatred of an automobile.
Judging by your pussy ass soundig rhetoric I'll guess C.
So go ahead and drive your 90 MPG 20 HP piece of Korean shit all you want. I'll stick to my SUV where I am confortable, I have the power I need and most of all can keep on pissing you and the rest of your socialist idiot friends off.
As for invoking the 18 year old from East Jesus, MS..you have got to be fucking kidding me. If it weren;t for you left-wing fools, we'd have all the oil we need in Alaska and off the coast of CA, TX, FL, MS and LA. But no, we have to save the endangered molusc and instead have to import our oil from Arabs. WAKE UP!!
In response to:
"Is it that worthless feeling you get as a man when the soccer mom is driving a vehicle 5 times more powerful than your Hyundai?"
Dude slow down and think about the subtext issues here. There are 2 types of people who attend gay rights parades, gays and people with gay issues. The rest don’t care and don’t attend. Similarly there are two types of HP followers...which are you?
Same thing is happening in Sydney, Australia. The outer suburbs are the ones being hit by far the hardest.
Waste not, want not.
The clothes (or in this case the automobile, SUV, etc.) don't make the man.
Suggested reading -
Blackgold Stranglehold
The Long Emergency
for both sides of the oil story. It isn't about oil, it is about cheap oil where the profit margins are thickest (kind of like your skull).
Also, a children's book called Aesop's Fables. Easy to grasp concepts that go back to the ancient Greeks that still hold true today - history may not repeat itself, but it rhymes. If you shop hard, you can probably find a copy with lots of pretty pictures.
"I'll stick to my SUV where I am confortable, I have the power I need and most of all can keep on pissing you and the rest of your socialist idiot friends off."
Fuel efficient automobile, truck or SUV (whichever you prefer) = socialist America hating loser renter.
Thanks for clearing that up for us.
"I have the power I need"
Hmmmm..... that statement says alot. Is this Tim the Tool Man Taylor writing???
Does your wife have all the power at home so you need to get the power on the road? Do you do power braking when you take off from the stop light? Do you accelerate your SUV when frustrated or angry? What size engine does your SUV have? I am hoping it is the big 10 cylinder Ford Excursion that carries a whopping 8 m.p.g. mileage rating - I really am. If they came out with a 12 cylinder model (you can get that with old Jag sports model by the way) SUV, would you buy that one for the extra feeling of power? Would it be enough? How's about 14 cylinders? You know on the cargo ships that bring stuff here from Asia, the diesel engines are a few stories tall and the cylinder radius is measured in feet. You'd probably go orgasmic watching those mutha's fire up and operate. Power, power, power!
Oh, and your guess on "C" was wrong. I drive a Jeep made in Ohio. I live within jogging distance to my job (6 miles) and plan my trips to be as fuel efficient as possible.
So, I showed you mine....how's about yours tough guy?
What do you drive? How far is your commute?
This is sounding like someone with some serious buyer's remorse or it is Dick "non-negotiable way of life" Cheney.
When learning to fly, you're taught to be prepared for and expect the worse and be elated when "it" doesn't happen. Also, fly your plan but when the environment and circumstances change, change your plan...meaning, don't go flying into a thunderstorm just because your original flight plan called for a certain course. Be aware, think and react accordingly. Every child in the country should be required to do 2 years of economics study in high school and one semester of aviation ground course work as a means of preparing for life (IMHO).
Hey SUV lovers...suck on this!...
http://fuh2.com/index.php
Ah H2, the Humvee with panties!
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