October 31, 2006

The End of Suburbia

I'm not sure what would be a worse investment today - a McMansion in a far-flung suburb, or coastal property that'll soon be underwater due to global warming

My issue with the exburbs beyond the waste of resources and poor urban planning is the lifestyle - or lack thereof.

Strip malls, Wal-Marts, TGIF's, fast food, no culture and no character. Why Americans choose (or put up with) that lifestyle I'll never understand.

Watch the documentary - very interesting. It's an hour long, so click when you can take the time. Thanks to an HP'er for the link.

159 comments:

Richard said...

Kuntsler book - A Long Emergency - is a must read to understand how the development of suburbs has been the greatest waste of natural resources in the history of humans-

Suburbs only made possible because oil is cheap.

That is about to change...and so too will the suburbs.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to an Hp'er for the link...

way to give credit to your veiwers admin.

again LAME ASS!

Seneca Lane said...

"On Paradise Drive" by David Brooks ... a must read. He explains...

http://tinyurl.com/shqub

Metroplexual said...

Seneca,

Brooks calls my brother-in-law to vett ideas he has. I would not be surprised if many of the ideas evolved because of converations they have had.

Metroplexual said...

richard,

as for Kuntler, I think he is an extremist wanting the US to go out with a whimper. I don't like people betting against the US and cheering its demise. That is what he is saying in most of his propaganda. While I feel he has valid points, I think he is the wrong person to embrace for them. Just my opinion. Suburbs have been made possible by technology not just cheap oil. They will still exist as we move on to greener technologies, and that is a good thing. Housing in high density may be achoice for some but for others it is less desirable, indeed suburbs have made housing affordible to own for many American families and that has provento be a boon to our economy and way of life.

Anonymous said...

The same could have been said about family farms in 1910, as millions of people left the rural lifestyle to start new lives in cities. We could have made dire predictions then about millions of starving Americans and wrung our hands (ominous background music) wondering "Is there an answer?".

Of course that didn't happen. Like they always do, people adapted, the economy grew, and the doomsayers got old and died.

Today we see the same B.S. in the form of global warming, overpoulation, peak oil, etc., etc., and now we have the added force of the MSM shilling for these losers.

Figure it out folks, it's all about money and control. Most of these so-called "emergencies" are just brain farts designed to part you from your wealth. Don't be so gullible!

Metroplexual said...

Keith,

Are you baiting Robert Cote?

bugsy said...

Hey Keith, is that why you moved to the UK, because of Kunstler's dumb ass? HAHAHAHA!!!!

bugsy said...

Enjoy freezing your A$$ets off in the UK this winter, keefer. HAHAHAHA!!!

Disgorge! said...

All you ever need to know about Jim Kunstler and why you should ignore him

I believe in peak oil, but Kunstler's an ass.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if folks in 1890 sat around worrying about the imminent collapse of the whaling industry. Without that cheap whale oil, how will we light our homes!!!! Oh no, a Dark Age looms!!

Then somebody invented kerosene and figured a way to pipe natural gas. Duh. Energy from oil will be replaced by something else, and I suspect in 2106, people will look back on this time and smile at our primitive, oil-based economy.

Metroplexual said...

Seneca Lane,

A recent brooks column for you.

http://mparent7777.livejournal.com/13770862.html

honica jewinski said...

I did'nt watch the video, but I can tell you why the suburbs exist. Most urban cities like Detroit, New Orleans, Atlanta, D.C. ect. Have been overrun with uncivilized people. These "people" are extremely violent towards the noble whites that built the cities. Rather than being labeled an evil, racist, hate-mongering bigot, the noble whites took the easy way out. They simply packed up, left and started over.

David in JAX said...

At my last job in Dallas before moving to Jacksonville, I had coworkers who would drive 1-1/2 to 2 hours in to work every morning. Then, at the end of the day, they would drive the same distance back to suburbia. I lived next to down town in the historic district where there was a ton of great stuff to do. I would ask these people why they would give up four hours a day to live in a crap hole full of strip malls, big box retailers and chain restaurants. The answer was always the same when they smugly said, "I've got a xxx square foot home."

I just don't get it. People are content to give up so much just to have a bigger house. I'll take my old 1400 square foot home in the heart of the historic district any day.

buzz kill said...

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with honica jewinski on this one.

buzz kill said...

The suburbanites would still be living in the cities if it weren't for the low-life liberal scum now infesting the once decent neighborhoods.

Richard said...

Please be specific answering this and please cite references that YOU conducted in your research...

you said "They will still exist as we move on to greener technologies"

Metro - what greener technoligies will replace oil, coal, or natural gas?

Please be specific and avoid rhetorical propogandist replies.

borkafatty said...

The suburbanites would still be living in the cities if it weren't for the low-life liberal scum now infesting the once decent neighborhoods.

-----------------------

screw you Boy scout master! its conservitive scum like you that has infested our way of life..scumbag!

Richard said...

Now I will be specific in advance of your reply:

"What About Green Alternatives like Solar, Wind, Wave, and Geothermal?"





Solar and wind power suffer from four fundamental physical shortcomings that prevent them from ever being able to replace more than a tiny fraction of the energy we get from oil: lack of energy density, inappropriateness as transportation fuels, energy intermittency, and inability to scale.



I. Lack of Energy Density/Inability to Scale:



Few people realize how much energy is concentrated in even a small amount of oil or gas. A barrel of oil contains the energy-equivalent of almost 25,000 hours of human labor. A single gallon of gasoline contains the energy-equivalent of 500 hours of human labor. Most people are stunned to find this out, even after confirming the accuracy of the numbers for themselves, but it makes sense when you think about it. It only takes one gallon of gasoline to propel a three ton SUV 10 miles in 10 minutes. How long would it take you to push a three ton SUV 10 miles?



Most people drastically overestimate the density and scalability of solar, wind, and other renewables. Some examples should help illustrate the limited capacity of these energy sources as compared to fossil fuels:



1.According to author Paul Driessen, it would take all of

1.California's 13,000 wind turbines to generate as much

electricity as a single 555-megawatt natural gas fired

1.power plant.



1.According to the European Wind Energy Association's

3.Wind Force 12 report issued in May of 2004, the

3.United States has 6,361 megawatts of installed wind

3.energy. This means that if every wind turbine in the

3.United States was spinning at peak capacity, all at the

3.exact same time, their combined electrical output

3.would equal that of six coal fired power plants. Since 3.wind turbines typically operate at about 30% of their 3.rated capacity, the combined output of every wind

3.turbine in the US is actually equal to less than two

3.coal fired power plants.



1.The numbers for solar are ever poorer. For instance,

1.on p.191 of his book The End of Oil: On the Edge of a

1.Perilous New World, author Paul Roberts writes:



" . . . if you add up all the solar photovoltaic cells now

running worldwide (2004), the combined output -

around 2,000 megawatts - barely rivals the output of

two coal-fired power plants."



2.Robert's calculation assumes the solar cells are

2.operating at 100% of their capacity. In the real world, 2.the average solar cell operates at about 20% of its

2.rated capacity. This means that the combined output

2.of all the solar cells in the world is equal to less than

2.40% of the output of a single coal fired power plant.



2.In order to offset a 10% reduction in U.S. petroleum

consumption, the amount of installed solar and wind

energy systems would have to be increased by

2,200%. (Similar numbers apply worldwide.) Graph provided by the Energy Information Agency:

Anonymous said...

"its conservitive scum like you that has infested our way of life..scumbag!"

Looks like Borkfatty is off his meds again.

Hey Borky, last time I checked the Baptist quilting club didn't operate a crack den in their spare room.

Anonymous said...

Oh come on Richard, everyone knows the interim answer is nukear power. That will carry us over 'til fusion plants come on line, and ultimately ZPF around 2100.

Anonymous said...

Jack London predicted the rise of suburbia in the 'Iron Heel' waaaay back in the early 1900s. Read it here:

http://london.sonoma.edu/Writings/IronHeel/

Richard said...

If you care to get more specific Metro - go to:

Lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

You spraying this blog or anyone you come into contact with dreams of an energy fairy fixing this is just ignorance on you part.

Do the research - then respond.



"Are We 'Running Out'? I Thought

There Was 40 Years of the Stuff Left"

"Big deal. If gas prices get high, I’ll just drive less. Why should I give a damn?"

"Is the Modern Banking System Entirely Dependent on Ever-Increasing Amounts Cheap Oil?"

"What Does All of This Mean for Me?"

"Are George Bush and Dick Cheney Aware of this Situation?"

"How Do I Know This Isn't Just Fear- Mongering by Loony-Environmentalists?"

"How is the Oil Industry Reacting to This?"


"How Do I Know Peak Oil Isn't Big Oil Propaganda That is Being Used To Create Artificial Scarcity & Justify Gouging Us at the Pump?"

"Can't We Just Explore More for Oil?"

"What About that Giant Oil Find in the Gulf of Mexico? I Heard It's Huge."

"How Can I Be Sure This Isn't Just More 1970s Doom-and-Gloom?"

"What About the Oil Sands in Canada and the Oil Shale in the American West?"

"What About So Called 'Reserve Growth'"?

"If the Environmentalists Would Get Out

of the Way, Can't We Just Drill in ANWR?"

"What About this Theory that Oil is

Actually a Renewable Resource?"

"Won't the Market and the Laws of

Supply and Demand Address This?"

"What About All the Various Alternatives

to Oil? Can't We Find Replacements?"

"What About Green Alternatives like

Solar, Wind, Wave, and Geothermal?"

"What About the Hydrogen Economy?"

"What About Nuclear Energy?"

"What About Biofuels Such

as Ethanol and Biodiesel?"

"What About Synthetic Oil From Coal?"

"Can't We Use a Combination of

the Alternatives to Replace Oil?"

"What About Amazing New Technologies Such As Thermal Depolymerization, Solar Nanotech, Space Based Solar Arrays, and other 'Energy-Miracles'?"


"What About Super Fuel Efficient

and/or Electric Cars?"

"What About Large-Scale Efforts at Conserving Energy or Becoming More Energy Efficient?"

"What's Going to Happen to the Economy?"

How Are People Likely to React to This?

"Are Governments Planning For This?"

"Is there Any Reason to Remain Hopeful?"

"What Can I do to Prepare?"

buzz kill said...

Libs like janitor in a drum want us all as miserable as they are. Dream on lib tard!

Alan P. said...

richard's been hunkering in his bunker since the y2k scare. He's still mad that one didn't pan out.

borkafatty said...

Looks like Borkfatty is off his meds again.

Hey Borky, last time I checked the Baptist quilting club didn't operate a crack den in their spare room.

----------------

umm ya what he said.

Richard said...

"richard's been hunkering in his bunker since the y2k scare. He's still mad that one didn't pan out."

Mark - you don't know that about me. Why do you want to look like a fool here Mark?

Alan P. said...

Come on Richard, you've drank from the Kunstler koolaide, quit scaring the sheeple.

I guess they're right, the internets is for crackpots.

Anonymous said...

i would not mind living closer to town, jax, fla that is, but you know something i dont want to look outside every day ans see all the liberal fags and bull dikes and tattooed hippies withtheir peirced lips and noses, the heroin look fashion and the goth punk ass minimum wagers in flip flops. GD, whats with all the Freaks!

borkafatty said...

Libs like janitor in a drum want us all as miserable as they are. Dream on lib tard!

-----------------

miserable, I am the happiest guy on the planet, what I dont apreciate is your bullsh!t Lib crap, I know you dont like being told like it is, tuff! Typical conservitive, when told the truth about something they cower and throw insults, like big men..ya ok girlyman.

Metroplexual said...

Richard,

Sorry to set you off, I did not realize that blogs were so academic. You are obviously very emotionally invested in the topic.
As I see it we will slowly ween ourselves from oil.

First, coal will last for hundreds of years? What time scale are you speaking about? Oil can be made from coal. will it be $1-$2 dollar gas? Probably not maybe $3 or $4 who knows $5. Either way we went through the recent runup in price and people adjusted.

Natural gas is also plentiful in excess of 100 years.

"The United States has large reserves of natural gas. Most reserves are in the Gulf of Mexico and in the following states: Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Wyoming, Kansas, and Alaska. If we continue to use natural gas at the same rate as we use it today, the United States has about a 50-year supply of natural gas, though another 200 years of additional gas supplies could be produced if people are willing to pay more for the gas they use."

Nukes are coming back into vogue and may be a necessary evil as we go past peak oil but hybrid production will help us through that

And it looks like congress is actually thinking about raising CAFE standards.

Hydrogen power from geothermal pumps are being looked at as the sustainable and renwable non carbon based power of choice. Iceland is already gearing up to be the Saudi Arabia of hydrogen.

We have that ability in many parts of the west Yellowstone being one place.

If you want specifics on Kilojoules and the like I cannot give them to you but if Hydrogen is produced in bulk from what I have read It could be the solution in terms of electric power supply even within homes or cars with fuel cells.

Sorry I am a planner and not an e

buzz kill said...

"Typical conservitive, when told the truth about something they cower and throw insults, like big"

Told the truth about what? You called me a scumbag, you hurt my feelers, waa!!

(written in liberalese)

Anonymous said...

i would not mind living closer to town, jax, fla that is, but you know something i dont want to look outside every day ans see all the liberal fags and bull dikes and tattooed hippies withtheir peirced lips and noses, the heroin look fashion and the goth punk ass minimum wagers in flip flops. GD, whats with all the Freaks!

----------------------

Another repressed individual who has obviously not gotten over the fact of being called a Nerd In Grade School.

borkafatty said...

buzz kill said...

"Typical conservitive, when told the truth about something they cower and throw insults, like big"

Told the truth about what? You called me a scumbag, you hurt my feelers, waa!!

----------------

If I were you Buzz I would ease up on using the word "feelers" your buddy Dennis Hastert just might think you are asking him out for a date or something

bugsy said...

The only reason all the liberals like Kunstler are constantly screaming "the sky is falling!" is because they want to trick all the decent folk into moving back to the cities first, to make it safer for their pansy asses.

Metroplexual said...

Sorry I am a planner and not an engineer.

Metroplexual said...

So bugsy, I hate Kuntler, am I a Commy, pinko?

Alan P. said...

Great link disgorge!

bugsy said...

No.

rich said...

First, coal will last for hundreds of years? What time scale are you speaking about? Oil can be made from coal. will it be $1-$2 dollar gas? Probably not maybe $3 or $4 who knows $5. Either way we went through the recent runup in price and people adjusted.

Natural gas is also plentiful in excess of 100 years.


You have to remember that if we're using more and more coal and nat. gas because of a lack of oil, these '100 years' of supply figures drop rapidly. As oil declines, the other fuels must take up the slack.

If we continue to use natural gas at the same rate as we use it today, the United States has about a 50-year supply of natural gas

Think of how long this will last if we now have to double or triple our natural gas use for use in power plants or fuel cells, or what have you.

bugsy said...

Unless you are, I don't know. I like commies, at least I know where they stand.

Alan P. said...

Think of how long this will last if we now have to double or triple our natural gas use for use in power plants or fuel cells, or what have you.

I am sorry, but this makes no sense. Coal and nukes will fill the gap. CTL currently costs US$35/bbl.

borkafatty said...

Is that Gold!!! Dipping and Silver climbing!!

Here's a little Halloween treat for you: I believe fundamental forces are lining up that could make silver the bullish surprise of the fourth quarter. The metal spent the past few months consolidating... coiling up like a spring. The next breakout could come soon, and it should be big.
Silver's next big move could take it to $15 per ounce, possibly $20 per ounce or even higher. Well-positioned companies will reap whirlwind profits -- stocks that are highly leveraged to the price of the metal and don't hedge (sell forward) their silver production.


But hey what do I know I am a Janitor...told ya so. hahahha!

rich said...

Also, we saw $3 gallon gas starting to make people change their driving habits and think about letting go of the SUV's... inflation started to set in because the rising price of gas effects almost every area of the economy (for instance, WalMart trucking its cheap goods all over the country). If you hit $5, people will be forced to change- and this is where the sustainability of the outer-rings of suburbia come into question. Would people still be able to afford that 50 mile commute to work everyday? And if not, what happens to our workforce and the economy?

Richard said...

Metro - you are misinformed and by your response know very little about this topic.

Please do not post on this topic to avoid you looking the fool.

As far as "very emotionally invested in the topic."

One - you don't know this - what I posted here was scientific FACT - no emotion.

Two - Even if I were - YOU would be served well to be emotional about the depletion of fossil fuels too.

rich said...

I am sorry, but this makes no sense. Coal and nukes will fill the gap. CTL currently costs US$35/bbl.

Same rule applies to coal- as oil depletes, demand for coal increases and supplies dwindle at a faster rate. Nukes would be great, but there are still too many hurdles political, safety, and otherwise... and where will the resources and energy come from to build all these nuke plants even if we do agree to take them on?

Unfortunately, the issue of peak oil can't be just 'wished away' by using pie in the sky alternatives... please read lifeaftertheoilcrash.net- all the arguments for alternatives & coal have been thoroughly debunked many times.

Alan P. said...

If you hit $5, people will be forced to change- and this is where the sustainability of the outer-rings of suburbia come into question.

The outer rings of suburbia are already crashing because of the housing bubble. Relax rich, you're getting yourself in a huff.

Alan P. said...

please read lifeaftertheoilcrash.net- all the arguments for alternatives & coal have been thoroughly debunked many times.

Rich, I have studied this topic more than you'll ever know. All this fear-mongering is just working people into a tizzy for no reason. Yes, changes will be made. Life adapts, that's what it does. Do you really believe that everyone will die if they don't get electricity 24/7? Look at India, they have over a billion people and use a tenth the energy we do. The only thing we have to fear, is fear.

Richard said...

Rich vs Mark (3 to 0)

Richard vs Metro (3 to 0)

nuff said

Metroplexual said...

Richard I am emotional about my politicians reaction to it. As for knowing about the topic, I would say that neither do you. If you think it is the end of the world like that doomsday website you left up, well that is your choice, I however will remain optimistic and as much as you pooh pooh it hydrogen is a viable source I have faith in it. BTW, you can make a case for any thing including aliens forming the US as per the Illuminati Trilogy. I give some creedance to the arguments you presented but it is a projection based on what is available today and not in innovations that are coming. Just look at the Malthusian doom and gloom that has been chasing the human race, which has at every step been countered with innovations.

Public sanitation

Modern Medicine, Vaccines

Green revolution

I choose to be optomistic sorry yoour a glas half empty kind of guy. (or it empty yet)

Alan P. said...

Whatever, of course you are an unbiased scorekeeper. :P

Alan P. said...

We're all gonna die!! Save us oh wise and mighty Kunstler!!

rich said...

The transition from our current lifestyles and American 'non-negotiable' way of life to a hellish, 3rd world Indian standard of living will be a harsh and painful one to say the least... the peakoil fearmongering campaign is just trying to get that point across if it does anything.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if folks in 1890 sat around worrying about the imminent collapse of the whaling industry. Without that cheap whale oil, how will we light our homes!!!! Oh no, a Dark Age looms!!

Then somebody invented kerosene and figured a way to pipe natural gas. Duh. Energy from oil will be replaced by something else, and I suspect in 2106, people will look back on this time and smile at our primitive, oil-based economy.


Actually in the 19th century, real people in the know (scientists and engineers) were not at all so worried. By the mid 19th century they obviously knew about coal and in fact it was a very large industry. Whaling did, on the other hand, successfully deplete whales. And with the discovery of petroleum and technology to extract it, we went on to a superior, more dense and more effective energy source.

This time, in 2006, for once Things Really Are Different.

Why? Because our fundamental understanding of physics and chemistry is different; we have discovered all the elements there are on Earth. We have mapped the entire planet with modern geophysical methods. And, with a far deeper scientific understanding we come to the conclusion that no, there is NO energy source even remotely feasible that is more effective, powerful and useful than petroleum.

From wood to coal to oil were technological improvements.

Now, we will be spending more technology and capital and money to get less energy and what we will get will be in a less convenient and useful form. Result: majorly lower standard of living.

If you wanted to invent a "perfect energy source" for many uses given just the laws of physics and chemistry and nothing else, you'd pretty much come up with something like gasoline. It's harder to pack in more energy in a smaller space without nuclear reactions---but with those you have giant safety and size problems for portable transportation uses.

Unless you think ETs are going to come down and give us the mythical "free energy" devices, we're screwed. And it sure seems that if ETs are in fact coming here they don't really give a crap about helping us. What's in it for them?

How many nuclear fusion plants are we building for Chad? And we're the same species.

Alan P. said...

I should've figured Rich was a NYC clown environmentalist. Hey city boy, you don't even have any trees in NYC, and you want to lecture the rest of us? That's teh funny!!!

Alan P. said...

The New Yawkas is gonna teach we 'uns about peak oil everybody, shh!! Shut up and listen!

Richard said...

The Green revolution is positive??

You do need to read Silent Spring.

I am done with energy fairies like yourself.

It is a waste of my time.

The only reason I responded was for those who WANT to do the research to DO IT. I used you as an ignorant example.

I did not respond to convince you rather bring to light the propagandist energy fairy empty argument related to Peak Oil that you spray on this site.

Anonymous said...

Forget solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, and biodiesel.

Nuclear will make a comeback since there have been many significant improvements in safer design and waste storage.

As soon as the dirty hippies can't afford to run their lava lamps, nuclear will make a comeback.

Richard said...

Anon 6:43:49 - EXCELLENT POST:

"And, with a far deeper scientific understanding we come to the conclusion that no, there is NO energy source even remotely feasible that is more effective, powerful and useful than petroleum."

Rich, Richard, ANON 6:43:49 VS Mark and Metro (CLEAN SWEEP 7-0)

Metroplexual said...

Richard,

I have read it. And because of it we have lees toxic stuff life bioengineered foods that do not need pesticides. You my good sir are an alarmist, I hope your vision does not come true. But it almost sounds like you want it to happen.

Quentin Daniel said...

"coastal property that'll soon be underwater due to global warming"

Hunh? Do you have a CLUE about global warming? Whether its caused by humans or not is irrelevant. Unless you are a an Al Gore insani-maniac, you can't possibly believe that in a few years, our coastal cities will be underwater. I had a lot of respect for you, but now I just think you're a cretin.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

hydrogen is a viable source
-------
Hydrogen is NOT a viable source, and I speak to experts in alternative energy in my normal work day.

Just passing on opinions straight from the horses mouth.

Metroplexual said...

FMW,

Splain? GM was banking on it at one point for their fuel cell car also honda was looking into it. Please explain.

And do I now just head to the hills and hunker down in my bunker in Oregon? Sorry for the sarcasm but I still do no think it is the end of the world folks.

Alan P. said...

...and I speak to experts in alternative energy in my normal work day.

Did they tell you about us all being doomed and the New Yawkas were the only ones who knew the way?

tabasco jenkins said...

Richard! Take your Ritalin!

The whole thing stems from American Pop Psychology that tells people the dream is to have a big home with a big yard. They moved as far away as was feasible from their jobs so that they could afford bigger homes and bigger yards. Add in a good old dose of American race problems and you got white flight. It's an old and oft studied subject, and barring a major shift in American psychology and race relations, it will continue this way. Will the exurbs die? Doubtful. If transportation becomes too costly, look for more and more employers to start moving jobs to the exurbs to make up for it, as many corporations are already doing.

But I would have to agree with those who prefer city living. Give me a 15 minute commute to work and loads of restaurants, bars, clubs, and theaters to choose from any day instead of a few more square feet or some more lawn to mow. And those "uncivilized people" that bigot Honica Jewinski refers to, well I rub elbows with them on a daily basis and have to tell you everyone acts pretty damn civilized, they have to in order to share the compact space of a big city with millions of other people. The only folks who are afraid of them are the idiots living in the exurbs who have to come up with some sort of excuse to dignify their 4 hour daily commute.

Anonymous said...

TJ,

I like your blog, How wierd is it that an employer like WaMu is charging employees for electricity? I have a CD in WaMu getting 6%, so I guess they have to cut somewhere.

Anonymous said...

Keith,

Would you please ban that douchebag Borkafarty from this blog?

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

I am just saying Hydrogen is not feasible. I discussed it with one of my experts just this am.

I am Not an end of the world doom and gloomer. Live in inner city in A Beautiful City, tiny high-rise condo (535 sq. ft) which I just bought from a FB, 07 car paid for, 40 mpg. Mort. is lower than rent. Can walk everywhere if I want.

Occupation: commercialization of solar power and hand and water sanitation for third world restaurant customers and schools, Real Estate and Timeshare marketing Promotion Founder,
sourcing investments and managing and selling Resort Inventory Deals are some of the businesses I am involved in on the ground floor.

Just know a little about a lot of things and very smart people surround me.

I am assuming that I have to take care of myself, simple.

If the SHTF sooner rather than later I am e mailing Richard.

Nothing more to see here.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

I like Bork a Fatty, he is fun to have around.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

so is Mark.

Metroplexual said...

I think it is all entertaining.

FMW, I am a transportion planner in the most densely populated state. This issue comes up and is discussd widely. I have seen experts speak on the future options of transportation. I think people will adapt and so will technologies.

BTW, I used to be gloom and doom. I lived in a city 4 blocks from the NE Corridor line and rode a bike most places. 650 Sq ft apt. I know how to live efficiently believe me, I just don't see the future the way Kunstler does, I have hope!

BTW, we are so very wasteful even with our waste. If we ran all the biomass wast through digesters we would have another natural gas source and manure aplenty.

Richard said...

Hey Metro - howz this for alarmist - read all the way to the end cuz oil plays a HUGE roll in the collapse of the US Dollar.

Hope u got gold - oh that's right - U B one of them positive folk....

The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown
http://informationc learinghouse. info/article1544 0.htm
By Mike Whitney

10/30/06 "Information Clearing House" -- -- The U.S. Dollar is kaput.
Confidence in the currency is eroding by the day.

A report in The Sydney Morning Herald stated, "Australia's Treasurer
Peter Costello has called on East Asia's central bankers to 'telegraph'
their intentions to diversify out of American investments and ensure an
'orderly adjustment'. ...Central banks in China, Japan, Taiwan, South
Korea, and Hong Kong have channeled immense foreign reserves into
American government bonds, helping to prop up the US dollar and hold
down interest rates,' said Costello, but 'the strategy has changed.'"

Indeed, the strategy has changed. The world has come to its senses and
is moving away from the green slip of paper that is currently mired in
$8.3 trillion of debt.

The central banks now want to reduce their USD reserves while trying to
do as little damage to their own economies as possible. That'll be
difficult. If a sell-off ensues, it will start a stampede for the exits.

Richard said...

Hey Tabasco - nice to have you back...based on your post you wasted your time during the interim...

The word is RESEARCH - that means you have to read then post...not drink then post.

BTW howz your sobriety going for you - what 2 - 3 weeks...

tabasco jenkins said...

Richard,

You call suburbs a misallocation of resouces while you spend all of your time "researching" crazy conspiracy theories.

Ironic, no?

Richard said...

Hey tabasco - sorry to hear you fell off the wagon.

Do this blog a favor and please don't post and drink...kinda makes you look foolish.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

we would have another natural gas source and manure aplenty.

++++
Dear Metro Man,
I am sure an inventor somewhere is working on that, I probably have met him. (: but good luck going against the current oil infrastructure. That is why, IMO we still depend on oil. I have worked to mainstream Solar for five years. Only 8 months ago got to the right people. And mass production of solar equipment is also petrol based!

____ I guess we are just ahead of the curve but not in a Panic yet, sorry Keith. I know I have to be ready for a rainy day, but that is common sense.

As for what is wrong with Hydrogen, the same thing that was wrong with the Hindenburg.

borkafatty said...

Keith,

Would you please ban that douchebag Borkafarty from this blog?

----------------

Obviously a moron..go ahead ban me ohhh! and then I can add my comments anonypussly like you, or use another name..like yourmother for instance..ban me go for it!

Alan P. said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown

Great post Richard.
I read that the Fed Bank does not care about the dollar tanking on the general Oct thread.

What will interest rates do? Up or Down?

Metroplexual said...

Richard,

I have read similar rumblings elsewhere that are more credible. ike Whitney has an axe to grind but I see his point. BTW your link did not work.

I regard Fleckenstein as my all time permabear.

Richard said...

"like yourmother for instance"

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

I can add my comments anonypussly like you
==========
rotflmao

borkafatty said...

Oh and dont get any ideas like IP banning got that covered to Myers.

Not bad for a Janitor wouldn't you say!

Alan P. said...

Hydrogen is a battery, not an energy source. It is hard to handle (hydrogen induced cracking on containers, etc.) and explosive as fmw previously stated. There is also the problem of conversion loss, which is quite steep. It does have applications, however, i.e. the shuttle.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

www.smirkingchimp.com/node/2451
read this from hamsterhouse

Richard said...

Hey Metro and Tabasco - do you guys go to group together?

What like Saturday mornings?

Keep up the good work boys.

Metroplexual said...

Hey mark,

Nothing wrong with Hydrogen!

Alan P. said...

Bravo! You found that fast!

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

I can't stand it you guys are too much fun, gtg.
LOL LOL LOL

borkafatty said...

Hey Metro and Tabasco - do you guys go to group together?

What like Saturday mornings?

Keep up the good work boys.

----------------

They say therapy in groups is a good thing..Ill have to bring that up with the administration in our next Blog- Banning session.

4:21 yet?

Anonymous said...

Hey, I thought blogging was group.

Metroplexual said...

Exactly this is my group therapy.

borkafatty said...

Hey, I thought blogging was group.

-----------

you may be right? Drinks on me..and you know what??

Ill buy :)

Richard said...

"Nothing wrong with Hydrogen! "\


Actually Mark the Hindenburg fire WAS NOT caused by hydrogen.

The panels of the shell were electrically charged during flight and because these panels were sewn together not all of them discharged when the grounding ropes hit the ground.

The aluminum frame and the electrically charged panel created a fire and because the shell was made out of the same material we use as fuel in the space shuttle it spread very quickly and OF course the hydrogen ignited.

If you would have done your research you would have known this.

There is a theory that goes along with the US version of the fire (that it was caused by hydrogen) and the NAZI party, but when you have shown an intetest in doing research I may share that with you.

Cheers (again)

tabasco jenkins said...

Richard, why haven't you been taking your Ritalin!

Have you been listening to Tom Cruise again?

Robert Coté said...

Metroplexual said...
Keith,

Are you baiting Robert Cote?


Meaning, obviously, with this: My issue with the exburbs beyond the waste of resources and poor urban planning is the lifestyle - or lack thereof.

Is it really "bait" when someone sticks their entire head in the lion's mouth?

I'll start slowly. Keith, where's the evidence that the exurbs are wasteful? Poorly planned? Bereft of lifestyle? Assertion is not evidence and the plural of anecdote is not data.

Metroplexual said...

Robert Cote,

Keith is MIA, I have already scraped with you on that topic before, so I know better. Besides I live in the Quintesential Exurb and planning exists. It is not anathema to exurban life.

Alan P. said...

Richard, No need to get your bloomers in a bunch, it seems you have done enough research for the both of us. Please continue.

Richard said...

"it seems you have done enough research for the both of us."

once again - it is not about you or convincing you...it is about those watching me jam truth down your throat and you puking it up...eventually someone watching this will "get it".

You are lost already.

Mammoth said...

Flying Monkey Warrior wrote,
“Occupation: commercialization of solar power and hand and water sanitation for third world restaurant customers and schools,...”
--------------------------
While many deem that solar, wind, and other ‘green’ energy resources are not able to replace the energy currently produced by the big oil machine, isn’t it true that they work well on a smaller scale?

Although I do not have the exact numbers, if you incorporate solar & other alt. energy schemes into your home’s heating & electric system isn’t the payback period around 10 years? And while this may not enable you to live completely off the grid, it will reduce home energy use.

It would be good to see more of this here in the US, and even if it does not solve the transportation problem it will lower our dependence on foreign oil.

BTW FMW, give IW a wink the next time you see her. ;)

-Mammoth

tabasco jenkins said...

Robert,

Is it good urban planning for businesses and homes to be set back from streets and be fronted by driveways and parking lots?

Does this lend itself well to a sense of community or to less wasteful pedestrian traffic?

Where is your evidence to offset Keith's assertion?

Richard said...

Mammoth you said "isn’t it true that they work well on a smaller scale? "

Yes - solar and wind will work at a much powered down scale - getting there is the trick.

While not an expert on tribal groupings - I have read repeatedly that the optimum "sustainable" group size is between 80 and 120 persons.

Metroplexual said...

Mammoth

You make my point. Alternative sources will be exploited. Will it be exactly like today's full lazy standard of living, who knows? But if Transpo starts using more alternative means and peole move closer to work which may be hastened by increases in fuel prices so much the better. Planners have been advocating for that for years.

Anonymous said...

Culture Sucks!

Give me rural America anyday or even the Exurbs will do in a pinch. No noisy neighbors, no one to tell you that your grass is too long or the car up on cinder blocks has been there so long that grass is growing out of the broken window.

My ideal house and neighborhood is one where I can sh*t in my front yard in the middle of the day and no one is there to complain or even find my dump for the next 20 years.

Who the f*ck are you to tell people what they should prefer? We're not all metrosexuals like you Kw**f. We don't care about the city life with its crime, theatres, traffic noise and smells.

Cities are great if you are a f*g and want to hide your lifestyle from childhood friends and relatives or if you are a rapist in need of convenient victims and the cover of anonymity that the city provides.

Culture Sucks!

Alan P. said...

While not an expert on tribal groupings - I have read repeatedly that the optimum "sustainable" group size is between 80 and 120 persons.

Egad, are you Kunstler incognito? Jim, is that you? You sure have the same ideas and temperment.

Anonymous said...

Kunstler is a nihilistic creep hoping for the implosion of America. He must publish his screeds on a regular basis or they will kick him out of the co-op or trailer park.

The hypocrite probably lives in the suburbs in his mother's basement.

Richard said...

Metro

what alternative means??!!!

"But if Transpo starts using more alternative means and peole move closer to work "

Your point is a pipe dream - who cares what planners discuss...

What fuel? what infrastructure? what capital? what work force?

The energy fairy does not exist Metro [.]

Get over it.

michael said...

keith obviously has no kids.

Anonymous said...

TGIF and Red Lobster are fine dining establishments along with Roadhouse BBQs and diners. Suburbia rules.

And realize Keith, up until 15 years ago, your great city of London was known for terrible cuisine where London's fish markets couldn't compete against the likes of Boston Scrod, Maryland Crab Cakes, or anything else in the US.

America is a homogenous society. Wake up! In Europe, they've never been able to integrate anyone into their societies but look at us today, white Americans are like 1/4 British, 1/4 German, 1/4 Slavic, and 1/4 Greek or Turkic. Americans are politely asked to drop their ancestors' quirks, pass on the best recipes for Hungarian Goulash, and assimilate. That's how this country works. Peoples of similar interests: Redskin football, NASCAR, Newagers, Swingers, etc form organizations that support one another and thus, we have a modern society. Sorry, I don't have a problem with it!

Metroplexual said...

richard

In a low cost energy environment people move outward to afford housing. In recent years with high fuel costs the economic gains of travelling outward has had diminishing returns and has recently flipped into costing more.
Many advocates for wiser consumption have said higher gas prices would be good (if it was taxed it could have offset he costs of the Transportation bill and offset deficits)


This kind of fiscal pain may motivate purchasing the infill or in cenurbs Robert Cote would call them. And people might be able to walk, bike or use transit. I know of a few people who commute by bike to NYC 25 miles each way by bike

you can google it

Housing & Transportation Cost Trade-offs and Burdens of Working Households in 28 Metros

Richard said...

"higher gas prices would be good"

spoken like a true American

Vietnam fishermen are out of work because of expensive fuel costs.

Existance on planet earth is not narrowly focused in America.

Once again - you refuse to do the research.

tabasco jenkins said...

Robert,

I think this anon's post...

"Anonymous said...
Culture Sucks!

Give me rural America anyday or even the Exurbs will do in a pinch. No noisy neighbors, no one to tell you that your grass is too long or the car up on cinder blocks has been there so long that grass is growing out of the broken window.

My ideal house and neighborhood is one where I can sh*t in my front yard in the middle of the day and no one is there to complain or even find my dump for the next 20 years.

Who the f*ck are you to tell people what they should prefer? We're not all metrosexuals like you Kw**f. We don't care about the city life with its crime, theatres, traffic noise and smells.

Cities are great if you are a f*g and want to hide your lifestyle from childhood friends and relatives or if you are a rapist in need of convenient victims and the cover of anonymity that the city provides.

Culture Sucks! "

...is a good example of some of the problems that exist with exurban culture, which would be the expressly anti-cultural bias many exurban dwellers exhibit.

Metroplexual said...

Richard your a nut!

Richard said...

"Richard your a nut!

wow - gotta be the best you've written all day.

When all else fails - resort to name calling.

How old r u anyway - please say 20ish.

Mammoth said...

“Yes - solar and wind will work at a much powered down scale - getting there is the trick.”

The best way to get the most solar power for your home is to design the home for this before it is even built. Think the developers will ever catch on to this concept?

This a good example of some really low-scale solar power use:
A nice tip for any gardeners who happen to be reading this blog. Just lining your raised beds with water-filled gallon jugs will improve vegetable production. The water picks up heat during the day and transfers it to the plant roots (via warming the soil) at night.

Using this method it is possible to get a good tomato & pepper crop even here in western Washington, despite the cool summer nights!

-Mammoth

Anonymous said...

"Cities are great if you are a f*g and want to hide your lifestyle from childhood friends and relatives or if you are a rapist in need of convenient victims and the cover of anonymity that the city provides."

See, despite the fact that I don't get along with Jenkins, America's big enough so that he and I can to have separate lots in the countryside. And to some extent, he's right about US cities which I why I prefer to stay in Canadian cities for the "urban experience" of actually boinking attractive ladies from Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal clubs w/o getting knifed on the way which BTW, happens a lot in Philly or Chicago.

Anonymous said...

Existance on planet earth is not narrowly focused in America.
-----------
Richard,
What Metro is saying is influence where you have control. he cannot help the fishermen, but he can stifle gas consumption by taxing the shit out of it in his world.

Metro; Richard is a very very smart nut. I think excentric may be kinder.

Now u 2 kiss and make up.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Happy Halloween Hpers.

A Funny Horror Story Written by a Realtwhore.

http://tinyurl.com/yx8p86

enjoy....

Robert Coté said...

tabasco jenkins said...
Robert,
Is it good urban planning for businesses and homes to be set back from streets and be fronted by driveways and parking lots?


Certainly can be. Think about the optimal physical seperation of a preschool and rendering plant.

Does this lend itself well to a sense of community or to less wasteful pedestrian traffic?
There it is again. More assertion/assumption without evidence.

Where is your evidence to offset Keith's assertion?

Classic pro-urbanist tactic. Make someone else disprove the negative. I haven't fallen for that canard for a decade.

Richard said...

"I haven't fallen for that canard for a decade."

Nice !!

honica jewinski said...

I can't believe you guys are still spewing all this monkey spank about "urban planning", "pedestrian traffic" and freakin driveways for Christs sake. I TOLD YOU WHY SUBURBIA EXISTS ABOVE. Anyone who does'nt believe me..... Well, I propose to you a little diversity training class I created. First, go to the largest, most diverse city in your state (along with your wife or teenage daughter). When you get there, find the blackest, most ethnic area in that city. Rent a motel room there. Sometime after dark, send your wife or daughter to the corner store to pick up a few items on foot. When she returns raped, robbed and beaten (rest assured that will be the only condition she would return in, and most likely not return at all) and you get a REAL GOOD taste of that diversity. Then you can come back here and preach to us about the benefits of inner urban areas and the joys of multiculturism. All of this other monkey spank, is just that. It takes a back seat to the safety of ones family.

Alan P. said...

A very nice link fmw.

Richard said...

"Well, I propose to you a little diversity training class I created."

I applaud your candor and frankness.

honica jewinski said...

A persons tolerance of diversity is inversely proportionate to their exposure to it.

keith said...

"I'll start slowly. Keith, where's the evidence that the exurbs are wasteful? Poorly planned?"

- want evidence? go to Phoenix or LA. The exburbs are patheticly unplanned disasters, an open sore upon the body America. Idiots who drive 50 miles each way in bumper to bumper traffic to their jobs so that they can afford their commute to work.

A sea of classless, cultureless shops and restaurants. Wal-Mart, Chucky Cheese, TGIF, etc.

I much prefer rural America to the disaster of the US exburb. At least the local shopowner and local restaurant have some character.

I'd suffocate within 10 seconds of exburb hell. I see why "Desperate Housewives" is popular in the states - the exburb housewives are indeed suffocating, desperate and miserable.

Alan P. said...

fmw,

One good link deserves another. Financial tales of horror.

Happy Halloween!!

Anonymous said...

"A sea of classless, cultureless shops and restaurants. Wal-Mart, Chucky Cheese, TGIF, etc.

I much prefer rural America to the disaster of the US exburb. At least the local shopowner and local restaurant have some character."

Keith, you're talking about upper middle class enclaves like Stowe Vt, not rural America. The roadside diners in places like WVa, KS, etc are no different than the TGIF type of megaplexes but with a smaller menu and some nicer locals esp if you're a white guy passing through and not east Asian with slanted eyes. (Hint: I bought that up to differentiate from the color division which people like Jenkins keeps harping on). So true, elite countryside spa-resort towns like Stowe have Yankee candle makers, exotic/authentic cuisine, Ben & Jerry's factories, and a slew of other vignettes, which appeal to the fantasies of the well off of living in a disneyland of 1920s New England countryside with the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts of those times, except this time, it's successful people from NY and Boston who're on a field trip.

honica jewinski said...

Blah, blah, blah. To the bulk of the working white class, you know, those who live in the concrete jungles without much of a choice, aka the majority, that all means very little. For them, Suburbia or rural means safe from savages.

Robert Coté said...

Keith, where's the evidence that the exurbs are wasteful? Poorly planned?

- want evidence? go to Phoenix or LA.

Anecdote is not evidence. Besides LA is the least exurban urbanized area in the US. Didn't know that did you?

The exburbs are patheticly unplanned disasters, an open sore upon the body America.

Since the exurbs are a product of the last 50-70 years coinciding with the arrival of the urban planner I was wondering which community you had in mind as an example of the unplanned you decry.

Oh, and "open sore" is not evidence nor assertion nor data.

Idiots who drive 50 miles each way in bumper to bumper traffic to their jobs so that they can afford their commute to work.

So? You are anti-mobility AND anti-choice?

A sea of classless, cultureless shops and restaurants. Wal-Mart, Chucky Cheese, TGIF, etc.

Where up to 90% of all the new jobs created in the last 20 years were created? I sense a conflict.

I much prefer rural America to the disaster of the US exburb. At least the local shopowner and local restaurant have some character.

Don't we all. The "village" as seen through our rose colored glasses; "Willoughby."

I'd suffocate within 10 seconds of exburb hell.
I'm sure you would. Intolerance and a sense of superiority are perequisites of the pro-urbanist agenda.

I see why "Desperate Housewives" is popular in the states - the exburb housewives are indeed suffocating, desperate and miserable.

Or perhaps they are interesting in the same vein as the ubber-urbanists of Sienfeld for the same reasons of caricature?

Evidence Keith. You made a claim and you cannot support it. Drop it and pretend it doesn't matter as so often happens on this subject or stand up and defend it. I don't care but a few google searches on me and this subject should give you pause as to the latter course.

Metroplexual said...

Keith,

Desperate Houswives is set in what is solidly suburban, not exurban. It is archtypal suburbs on a set in hollywood.

tabasco jenkins said...

"I don't care but a few google searches on me and this subject should give you pause as to the latter course. "

Oh my god, are you a pompous ass.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Mark,
I Read it. Scary.

We are are such threadjackers.

hehehehe

sorry keith, but it is halloween.

keith said...

robert - this arguement is opinion, an esoteric exercise in like vs. dislike. this is not the time for hard facts or evidence, it is simply emotion and opinion

I hate the exburbs. I don't understand anyone who drive 50 miles each way to get to work, when they can live closer. I suffocate at TGIF or bennigans, but love a local dive bar. I don't get American's obsession with large houses vs. quality houses. And I hate wal-mart.

None of the above can be scientifically proven or disproven. It's just my opinion. It's just emotions.

honica jewinski said...

Tabasco said...
pompous ass

I say monkey spank spewing, ball less wonder

Guadalupe Hidalgo, 1848 said...

The future is in tin-roofed shanty towns. They are cheap, easy to construct, easy to move. Once a symbol of South American poverty, soon it will serve as shelter for the majority of Americans. In a way these homes are bubble proof since they are very cheap and anyone can build one in a few days.

Richard said...

GH 1848 speaks the truth.

http://tinyurl.com/vmda4

Robert Coté said...

Keith tries to tone down the discussion with:

Robert, this arguement is opinion, an esoteric exercise in like vs. dislike. this is not the time for hard facts or evidence, it is simply emotion and opinion

No it is not. you made a commaon and blatantly false assertion; that the exurbs are wasteful of resources. It is those kinds of comments that left unchallenged have resulted in places like Los Angeles. You got sumpin' agin the exurbs, fine. Just don't pretend your fully respected opinion is in any way supported by the facts.

I hate the exburbs. Nooo, really? Who'd a thunk? I cool with that. So cool, I am seriously interested if you can enumerate the reasons. I honestly think we can all learn from these reasons. The real reasons, not the cover story. And don't get me wrong, there are lots of reasons to object to the dominance of the exurban development pattern but I'd be surprised if you can actually list them.

I don't understand anyone who drive 50 miles each way to get to work, when they can live closer.

50 miles of course being several deviations away from the norm. Might as well use me as an example. My commute is now 4 times longer than even a few months ago. It is now close to 100 fett. EACH WAY. This is the burden I wilingly bear to give my kids an extra bedroom. In short, you resorted once again to anecdote in the extreme to try to make your point. The truth is those places with the most transit, the most mixed use, the densest populations are the places with the longest commutes.

I suffocate at TGIF or bennigans,

Yep, just food, no cuisine nor atmosphere. Good thing there aren't any of these or McDs or such in the cenurbs and such a shame that the exurbs are devoid of anything except the chains.

but love a local dive bar. I don't get American's obsession with large houses vs. quality houses. And I hate wal-mart.

All legitimate perspectives. I too hate Walmart but6 probably for different and enumerable reasons. The parking lots and quality are not among them.

None of the above can be scientifically proven or disproven.

Au contraire. I've got gigabytes of reply qued up just waiting for your first subject. Come on, you gotta have sumptin' 'bout wasting resources you'd like to throw out as an example. Energy? Paved earth? Biodiversity? Time?

It's just my opinion. It's just emotions.

Since when does opinion extend to asserting that the exurbs are inefficient? You've got lots of -considered- opinions. You wouldn't want people to think you make it all up as you go along?

Robert Coté said...

tabasco jenkins said...
"I don't care but a few google searches on me and this subject should give you pause as to the latter course. "

Oh my god, are you a pompous ass.


It does come across like that to those too lazy to do the background and too ill mannered to acknowledge the body of work it reveals.

I've got a lot of things to share on the subject of exurb v cenurb. Pompous would be in self rating this rather than merely pointing it out. An even better example would be someone who attacks the person based on material they've never read.

tabasco jenkins said...

"The truth is those places with the most transit, the most mixed use, the densest populations are the places with the longest commutes. "

You mean, the places with the most people???

No way!

Please enumerate us with some more of your geniosity.

The places with the longest commutes are the places where people live the farthest away from where they work, uh der. This situation exists primarily in the present day in exurban communities around major cities. It does not, however exist as much in the city centers themselves because those residents don't typically have as far of a commute to their jobs, you dolt. So yes, the residents commuting the furthest, those very same residents who reside in exurban communities, are using more resources each day during their daily freeway commute than the folks living in the city centers who are hopping on a bus or a train for a few blocks.

And nice job denouncing Keith's use of anecdotal evidence by reciting your own anecdotal situation.

What a useless blowhard you are, Robert.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

GH 1848 speaks the truth.
======
richard,
There is some good stuff in there. Anti terror, disease surveillance, no solar or alternative energy that I could find.
I don't understand why it is not more public and why don't they follow the rules of checks and balances?
There is much more than meets the eye.
PS, I posted the pocket veto story you told me about in the open Oct link, you were right again…..I will post it again if it is deleted.

Shakster said...

Suburbs Rush Moving Pictures?

tabasco jenkins said...

"It does come across like that to those too lazy to do the background and too ill mannered to acknowledge the body of work it reveals. "

Holy crap, that's your response to being called pompous? To cite that you have a "body of work" as if it should instill shivers of fear and instant respect.

I take what I said back, you aren't a pompous ass, you are an outrageous caricature of a pompous ass.

borkafatty said...

I take what I said back, you aren't a pompous ass, you are an outrageous caricature of a pompous ass.

--------------
LOL!

Anonymous said...

What exactly is an "exurb" and how is that different from a "suburb?" What are some "exurbs" in Southern Craplifornia? Barstow?

If living in a McMansion on a 1-2 acre lot and then driving 50+ miles each way to work in the city (in a gas guzzling SUV, of course) isn't wasteful of resources, I don't know what is. Sure, a few people can telecommute. What about everyone else? Besides, those jobs for which telecommuting is a viable option are liable to end up being done by someone telecommuting from India for pennies on the dollar. How will that work with the mortgage payments on an early 21st century McMansion?

Richard said...

Maybe we should have saved the farmland for food rather than suburbs.

How Long Can the World Feed Itself?


By Gwynne Dyer
Energy bulletin
October 28, 2006
http://www.energybulletin.net/21736.html

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.


We are still living off the proceeds of the Green Revolution, but that hit diminishing returns twenty years ago. Now we live in a finely balanced situation where world food supply just about meets demand, with no reserve to cover further population growth. But the population will grow anyway, and the world's existing grain supply for human consumption is being eroded by three different factors: meat, heat and biofuels.

For the sixth time in the past seven years, the human race will grow less food than it eats this year. We closed the gap by eating into food stocks accumulated in better times, but there is no doubt that the situation is getting serious. The world's food stocks have shrunk by half since 1999, from a reserve big enough to feed the entire world for 116 days then to a predicted low of only 57 days by the end of this year.

Anonymous said...

Peak Oil might not be such a bad thing if it forces fat lazy Americans to trade in their SUVs for bicycles. It would go a long way towards solving the obesity epidemic and the US would save trillions of dollars that would otherwise be spent on healthcare for the lardbuckets.

In fact, why wait for the oil to start running out? Tax the sh*t out of gasoline right now and let people start adjusting to the new (real) reality.

Anonymous said...

Richard said...
Maybe we should have saved the farmland for food rather than suburbs.

How Long Can the World Feed Itself?

...

---------------------------

Maybe the idiots shouldn't have multiplied to 6.5+ billion. Oh well, they found a solution for the "no food" problem on Easter Island, I guess Soylent Green may well be in our future.

Disgorge! said...

"On Paradise Drive" by David Brooks ... a must read. He explains...

David Brooks! Oh ye gods, I can't believe anyone considers that schmo an authority on anything.

Robert Coté said...


The places with the longest commutes are the places where people live the farthest away from where they work,


That's not true as reported by the BTS, AHS, Census, FHWA and several other references easily accessible with a simple search of my previous posts on the subject or a basic search of the sources listed here.

The places with the longest commutes are the p0laces where the jobs are closest to the CBD.

Anonymous said...

Frankly, I don't get the exurban hate.

I took my niece trick or treating in a beautiful historic inurb last night. There were lines in front of every house as long as lines at Disneyland. 99% of the people were Hispanics from nearby apartments. One lady told me she always brought her kids to this neighborhood because it was much safer than the one they lived in. Kids were shoving each other, cursing at the homeowners in Spanish when they ran out of candy (these people must have spent hundreds on candy alone, not to mention the elaborate decorations they put up), one girl was complaining that strangers were pinching her ass.

Looking at these beautiful homes on large lots, I couldn't help but think that once upon a time this neighborhood must have been a wonderful place to raise a family. Traffic, noise and pollution would have been minimal. The kids could have played in the streets and roamed the area freely on bicycles and skateboards. The quality of life would have been similar to the way it is in the exurbs now.

We live in a small home on a couple of acres in the exurbs. It's a beautiful area with lots of trees, a lake, wildlife, clean air, dark skies and quiet nights. Yes, there are strip malls here. I don't love them, though they are convenient.

We spend our summers in a major city with a cooler climate. There you will find all the same stuff you find in exurban strip malls (Starbucks, Whole Foods, Dunkin Donuts, 7/11, Bennigan's), it's just closer together. We have dive bars and small independent shops in the exurbs, same as in the city. Big deal, none are anything to write home about in either locale. My life doesn't revolve around shopping or drinking. It never did, even when I was single.

I don't prefer one lifestyle to another, though I do find exurbs more amenable to family life. We have a blast in the city, but there usually aren't enough kids around and the noise, crowds, pollution and traffic get tiresome.

Mammoth said...

Richard wrote,
“Maybe we should have saved the farmland for food rather than suburbs.”
--------------
I remember growing up in the D.C. suburbs, one day my older brother said, “we should tear up the streets and plant corn.” We all thought that he was a flake.

Go ahead and rag on the Mammoth for providing opinions & anecdotal evidence instead of verifiable sources, but here it is anyway...

One could argue that much of the world’s hunger problems are more due to politics and land ownership (rather - the lack of) than a shortage of arable land. There is much discussion on HP about being prepared - for the uncertain future - financially, strategically (think ‘guns & bunkers’), and by storing X week’s worth of food. But how many people are able to produce their own food?

This is a housing blog, not a gardening blog, so I won’t get into the ‘hows.’ But once you learn how to do it, you can produce a tremendous amount of food on a relatively small piece of land. In the near future, the case may be that a small house with a large yard will have more value than a mcmansion that covers the whole lot, because the latter has the ability to feed its residents. And if it ever comes to this, then apartment-dwellers and condo owners will be screwed.

Here in the US food is cheap (produce, anyway) when compared to other countries, thanks to the cheap labor supplied by immigrants (many of whom are illegal). For example, in Russia food takes up a greater portion of the family budget than it does here in the US. Those families that have a dacha and can grow their own food are typically more well-off than families who don’t have access to land.

During the Soviet times, the large collective farms never produced, on a per square meter basis, the volume of food grown by those who had their own garden plots. I suspect this is the same in other countries, where hunger is rampant. You get out of it what you put into it, right?

Unless you’re a house flipper-ha!

-Mammoth

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Dear Mammoth,

I am a high-rise condo dweller, (love the city) and I have an urban garden on my 5ft by 13ft 'pent house' southern exposure balcony. Could switch from flowers to food in a flash! I even use old wooden desk as my ‘Tool shed”
(:
Just chiming in.

Mammoth said...

FMW,
Feel free to try growing some veggies alongside your flowers. It’s never too late to get a practice run in.

PS give IW a wink the next time you see her. ;)

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

I shall do both. Thanks. I have looked into tom thumb lettece, and other veggies, for example roots varities and beans, which are vines and very urban friendly. I even grew grass in a large flat container for fun.
(:

iw

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

PS. I fill the bottom of the containers with styrofoam to keep them very light weight.

honica jewinski said...

Growing grass for fun Monkeywarrior? What kind of grass are we talking about here?

Mammoth said...

FMW,

With the limited space of a balcony, you can take advantage of vines, provided you either have a trellis, or can tie string to something up above. Where you live it is possible to grow cantaloupes with incomparable flavor, tomatoes, and peas.

With a sturdy shelf, you can have 1 row of pots growing above another (with the vine coming out of one pot and passing in front of the one above it. (Wish I could draw a diagram here.)

In fact, you can grow peas, lettuce, radishes, cauliflower, cabbage, and broccoli at this time of year in FL!

Mammoth’s soil mix:
3 parts compost (or good rich topsoil
1 part vermiculite
1 part pearlite
1 part peat moss

Mammoth’s fertilizer mix:
3 parts fish meal
1 part blood meal
½ part bone meal
1 part lime
1 part kelp meal

Mix ¼ cup into soil before planting; more for larger plants; less for smaller ones.

Happy gardening!

- Mammoth
“A tusk in the garden is worth two in the museum”

BelchMeister said...

Richard:

What academic degree(s) do you hold? What is this background from which you dispense such raw genius upon the lowly herd? You seem like you have an intellectual Napoleon complex, posting your brilliance for all to see on...a blog thread. Did you not get that Ph.D. but desperately want to prove to yourself and the world that you could be a Ph.D.? You probably could have gotten a Ph.D., it's not that hard actually. I should know, I've got one.

You're a douche bag. No one thinks you're smart. We just think you're a douche bag. Now shut the fuck up. Bitch.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Hon Jew,

Very Funny,

Not weed,

Just grass,

wanted to see it out side of my french doors.

Thanks Mammoth, I copied and pasted your recipe.

Let the experimentation begin.....