materialism - a desire for wealth and material possessions with little interest in ethical or spiritual matters
materialism - a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values
fake - Having a false or misleading appearance; fraudulent. One that is not authentic or genuine; a sham.
bubble - Something insubstantial, groundless, or ephemeral, especially a speculative scheme that comes to nothing
December 04, 2006
Just got back from Scottsdale, Arizona.
Posted by blogger at 12/04/2006
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43 comments:
There is no 'there' there
A good example of banality this season are the 7-foot tall inflatable nativity scenes popping up in front of fake-stucco McMansions. They are probably made in the same Chinese factory that turns out blow-up sex dolls the rest of the year.
Hi Scottsdale has had it's day. Investing in real esate often requires following the trends globally. The Bahamas is seeing double digit gains each year. The island of Great Exuma tops the list and is just heating up. Check out www.bahamaheights.com for a virtual tour.
It is really a matter of not putting all your eggs in one basket, even if the basket is as large as the U.S.
I agree, many in scottsdale are actually very ungrounded "new money" it its worst in many cases
and they all thought themselves "pro" investors when their only reason for buying was its going up, not supply and demand or income/housing cost, or rental cash flow
So some got what they deserved...
HOWEVER- scottsdale is a perfect example of why you cant generalize whats gonna happen to real estate in OTHER areas of the country by these fools behavior over there...
the same culture (and amateur speculative housing returns) simply didnt happen in most other states, and there are areas wher price income of housing has been more balanced
so the housing market is a much better position in many places elsewhere
LOL, in phoenix the avg income was never that high vs many other areas of the country , and the fools didnt even have the sense to bank some of there gains for a rainy day- instead they bought depreciating mercedes with their phantom money to show other fools how rich and smart they are...
please dont compare scottsdale with the rest of the country, in bubble terms or otherwise- there are many more well off less flashy homeowners in other states which arent on their last dime and will support a much better off housing nmarket there... and are nicer more balnced people in general more importantly
remionds me of a story 2 years ago, was riding in a ski lift with a couple of other people in montana- and UNBELIEVABLY this scottsdale person starts bragging how much money they have , they own in scottsdale so made so much money-- nobody asked them, we wer just talking about the weather..
well little did they know that the other person on the lift , I just happened to know had a 15 million dollar vaction home (cash im sure) in the area, and was the nicest most down to earth family person (nothing to proive)- and the little twit from phoenix was trying to insinuate how rich he was, ie you cant be like me... i thought then scottsdale is the last place id like to be if everyone was so classless and only cared about others money as "status"
well i guess the scottsdale investor may not have the money these days to spend on the montans ski trip, but the montana guy im sure is still there incognito in his 15 million dollar vacation home with his grandkids, continuining to be philantrophic supporter of area schools and the less fortunate...
the culture of greed and conspicuous consumption in scottsdale led to the mess thats there now , no doubt about it ( and you can say the same aboput many in southern californaia too)
lol
I once visited the Scottsdale Historic Society. There is no "old there" either. I left rather puzzled. The only thing historic of note is Taliesen West which I think is in Scottsdale up there off of Shea.
I live in San Diego, beautiful weather as of late but, unreal market prices and traffic.
My parents live in Scottsdale. I'll tell ya one thing, that Scottsdale/Pheonix metro area to me is a nightmare!
The traffic congestion, that place seems to go on for ever! It can be a very confusing place to get around in.
Taliesen West -used- to be a subtantial drive out of Scottsdale way into the desert.
There is nobody so poor as one who has only money.
(except, perhaps the people who must continually "show" others how much they have, or mabye those who just 'pretend' to have only money)
I lived in Scottsdale in 85 for a year, moved back to Scottsdale in 95 for a year, and moved to NW Valley this summer.
The Valley may have gotten wider, but it seems to have gotten more shallow at the same time.
Those are your peeps, Keith. You probably fit in good out there.
:There is a simple quiz which shows that medieval peasants had better life quality, all in all, than modern wage-slaves.
I believe most medieval peasants were under a noblemen who'd essentially taxed them as he'd felt to support his knights and lifestyle. Perhaps you're talking about the people who'd lived along the Silk road who had the protection of the former Mongolian empire from the north (Khanate) and could manage the over land trade between China, India, Persia, and Byzantine.
The modern wage-slave is still better than the one from the 1890s to 1920s time period but worse than the ones from the 50s to the mid 70s. I think most people want the job security and relative compensation of the 50s and 60s.
greed
Scottsdale: home to lots of Republican scum who flaunt it because they think net worth equals self worth.
Sad, but so true.
After living in Scottsdale for 7 years I can attest to the culture.
Los Angeles has a bad stereotypical reputation for rich snobs running around talking about their wealth; however, this is not LA at all and precisely what Scottsdale is all about.
A bunch of $40k / Yr "Millionaires" running around talking about what they've got.
Despite that though, there is still something that sucks me in about that stupid desert city??? Maybe the women? I don't know..
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I really don't know what you people are talking about. I have never heard a bunch who talk more about their investments and possessions as those here on this blog, and that's saying something because the 'net is full of blowhards. Get real.
The women of Scottsdale are overated like everything else there. All hype and show, no substance. Most are enhanced bottle-blondes whose sole ambition in life is to find a wealthy provider (much older, no problem),never work, live in a McMansion, have spoiled kids, drive around in a luxo-SUV piece of junk and go shopping.
I would rather engage the services of a prostitute as you know the real price up front and its a cleaner transaction.
theres nothing wrong at all with money etc , thats neutral, and you can do great things with it (including helping or employing others), there are decent/undecent people of all net worths
HOWEVER, what were talking about her is the ATTITUDE of the many of phoenix, the 40K a year new millionares as someone said here , LOL- they think they were all that, and thought they were professioanl investors without any knowledge of long term supply /demand, price/income and having RESERVES if you want to speculate, the 40k a year millionaire didnt have reserves lol-
there were many who rushed out to buy the latest depreciating cars and clothes with thier new wealth, and rubbed it in the face of others, thats what were talking about..
and the REST of the country , except for a few places like in CAlifornia, is not like that...
Its the greed and attitude and stupidity (no market knowledge) that caused there downfall and lack of sympathy to the rest of the country , thats all- it became some weird acopolyptic type culture there, all flash no substance, judging people only on their cars and clothes ( again there is NOTHING wrong with being rich, theres something wrong with being an a--hole to others)- jeez even the fad of "swinging parties" among married newly rich people in scottdale became the fad for many, it became some selfish over the top narcisstic culture...so thats the problem, and this type of party was bound to end
its important to say on the other hand there are plenty of rich ranchers etc for exmple in montana or wyoming for example that are totally the opposite in attitude and really look out for their neighbors and less fortunate, so god bless them and im glad they made it rich ... the point is that scottsdale is not representaive of the whole country etc , thank goodness, and they are hard to feel sorry for
they all had the hat without the ranch, id rather trust the guy with the ranch without the hat (or flashy leased mercedes in this case in scottsdale)
most arent saying anything against becoming a millionaire- just that in scottsf=dalle in particular the new money ther was just tacky, flashy, rude, anmd thought they were better then others without there money- and this attitude is what made it wrong, combined with phoniness, and moral corruptness-
you had to work/live, or visit scottsdale to see it for yourself- VERY different then many other TRULY rich areas in attitude- all flash and no substance, and NO CLASS (ie class menaing being gracious and making others feel comfortable around you ) - many new money scotsdale people became morally corrupt ( ie "swinging parties" for many no kidding) as well as rude or obnoxious to others to the point they actually felt superior to others if they had a big mercedes (leased, no doubt by the 40k yr "millionaire")
Now if you know many truly wealthy people in other parts of the country , many are totally cool and different- if you have real money a meredes is no big deal really for example, and doesnt define you...
i agree with most here. scottsdale is the most superficial place, IN ARIZONA. don't forget, you have fake everywhere. south beach fake, newport beach fake, the entire country of argentina, etc.
so if you don't like it, vacation in the wisconsin dells.
if you do, enjoy, and quit pissing all over everyone else.
Hypocritcal Utah mormons have also bought into a similar cultural ideal to that in Scottsdale.
This comes at a time when their leaders are urging them to get out of debt and help the poor. Some adhere to the old down to earth values but many have become wanton materialists.
You should see this show they have called "Hot Homes of Utah". It's the how to guide for keeping up with the Joneses.
buzz kill - people on this blog seem to talk about how they can protect their assets and their families - thus the rush to gold vs the dollar, etc.
You don't hear a lot on this blog about all the great new things people are buying - flashy new cars, big houses, new furniture, etc.
Capital Preservation and Early Retirement is a lot different than what I just saw in Scottsdale.
keith,
i admit I dont agree with much of what you say , im much more bullish on housing long term Nationally then you and most here
HOWEVER, i had to laugh and smile when i saw this scottsdale post, if their was ever an area which IS a prime example of a mrket gone amuck, and a city gone crazy with greed its scottsdale..
most of the comments about the culture there is pretty true, everyone thought they were some real estate expert cause they happened to live there, and OSTENTATIOUS to the max
now ive been involved (and still am ) succesfully invested in real estate (no not in scottsdale or places like that where price to wages and rents were ridiculous), but I couldnt BELIEVE how you would go on some phoenix realtors website and theyd actually have a SYSTEM where you were supposed to buy any old house , EXPECT it to DOUBLE!!! in the near term, and then buy more, no mention to contingency planning if this goes wrong, no mention thatr this is very specualative so if you are SOOOO bullish you need reserves to cover holding the property for years yourself...
having been involved in real estate most of my life i said you gotta be kidding me, some realtor is actually saying in print that things will double, in an area where most have mortgages (scottsdale is NO Aspen by any means, yes its the 40k millionaire syndrome there)and not lots of money...
so Keith although I dont agree with you and your posters that much, in this case I AGREE 100%, scottsdale became pure lunacy, greed, and phony people for the most part, and well its sorry for almost everyone else to feel sorry for those amateur "donald trump " wannabees in scottsdale who didnt have a clue to what they were doing, and were showoffs in flashy cars for a while to go with it...
cheers
Keith, okay. I guess I can't fault you for that seeing as how the corporate azzholz have their face firmly planted between lady Liberty's ample breasts.
Anyone been to Plano or Frisco, TX (suburbs in north of dallas), I felt that it is just like the Scottsdale like some of you describes.
The whole world is materialistic, if it were not then we would all live in communes and hold all things in common.
Scottsdale materialistic? I don't know a major city in the USA that isn't. The difference? Real value vs fake value. I hardly think seeing people spend $450.00 for a 1,000 ft box in Watts, California in the same league as a $450,000 McMansion in Scottsdale.
I had friends visit in the mid-90s from the bay area and they said, "Wow, there is money here." And I was like, "Huh?" I saw Californians paying $300,000 for a condo, 1200 sq ft and wondered how can they afford that while people here maybe paid $180,000 for a house in Scottsdale. They saw value and equated that with wealth. I only saw what they were paying and how much they had to earn.
Rather than say materialism alone is the root of the problem you have to accept that our urban model is flawed and our automobile society that leads people into sterile subdivisions, garage door up, garage door down, boob tube, and no civic or neighborhood interactions. This happens all over the USA, not just Phoenix.
What exactly do we as Americans produce anymore? Yes, we have some high tech, high-value manufacturing like aircraft but really, besides consumption what are we as Americans? Our leaders have sold us a false bill of globalization and free trade that means nothing but consuming cheap imports. Now China is even taking over the world in exporting food.
I have to admire Argentina. When they went bankrupt and defaulted on all their foreign debt, they paid a price for a couple years but now? Argentian is booming again. Why? No imports, only exports, and Argentines buy Argeninian made goods and services.
I hope the dollar continues to tank. Let the Euro take over and let Europe bear the burden of the free world. We turn isolationist, can't even afford Chinese imports, have to start making our own clothes again, eat food grown here, etc. That will cure some of our materialism.
YES, IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT!
I have never been to Scottsdale. Why the grudge against Scottsdale?
Isn't Scottsdale is as flaky as Palm Spring, Santa Monica, Orange County, Pasadena, Fells Point, North Beach, Hollywood..etc.
Yep Scottsdale is pretty lame and so are the burbs north of Dallas. But for ultra suckiness, emptiness and low-life infested--South Florida has to be the champ. Its a dump and its been than way forever. Now its crashing huge! Love it. Its worse than Scottsdale if only becuase of the annoying Cuban and New Jersey accents.......
'Love' of money is the root of many evils!
I live in Scottsdale. eh... semi-LA-wannabe? yeah sure.
People are people. They want to feel good. Important. Special. Might they be a little "in your face" at times? sure.
I'll bet if you lived next door to one of them. Had a beer. You'd find they aren't all that much different than you.
Anonymous said...
Yep Scottsdale is pretty lame and so are the burbs north of Dallas. But for ultra suckiness, emptiness and low-life infested--South Florida has to be the champ. Its a dump and its been than way forever. Now its crashing huge! Love it. Its worse than Scottsdale if only becuase of the annoying Cuban and New Jersey accents.......
Tuesday, December 05, 2006 1:20:53 AM .........................
I resemble that remark! Actually New Jerseyans by and large do not have that accent, they sound like what you hear on TV or the movies. Which BTW many of the actors in Hollywood are from NJ, go figure.
It is people who live within 10-15 miles of Manhattan that do. Believe it or not the old Jersey accent (which is slowly dying )is a mild drawl.
if you think that the attitude of scottsdale new rich is the same as elsewhere, you just havent been many places elsewhere-
there are mountain resorts with average homeowner income of over 300k, where most will ride a pickup truck and go out of there way to be normal and unpretentious-
on the other hand , many of the 40k millionaires in scottsdale are big on flash ie mercedes, shopping for everything at neiman marcus etc on crdit etc...
i personally run into someone here in the midwest worth over 50 million id say who shops at costco, and buys xmas decorations at the dollar store- would that generally happen in scottsdale , nope, those fake insecure people wouldnt be caught dead in the dollar store, doesnt meet their IMAGE, and theyu dont want to be seen near those ppor people,, really ,, theres a HUGE difference, get out of scottsdale and youll see!!!
and leaving scottsdale to see something different in attitude does not mean Los Angeles!!!!Geez, no wonder you think scottsdales normal , LA is just as crazy, my wife saw an hgtv show on cable last night and some realtor there, the first thing he says is "ITS ALL ABOUT THE ELITE NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND HERE"-- man they are sooooooo
self important in southern ca, think the world revolves around them, and the rest of the country could care less, thinks they are all nutty people who sit under a pyramid for health or something anyway,,...
We live in San Diego but my wife recently took a short term tech job in Hollywood on Sunset. Oh my gosh what a sewer, if you get a chance just drive through especially in the evening......Wow!
Keeping up with the Jones's, why do we care so much what others will think about us with material aquisitions? It only hurts us. My neighbor has a new gorgeous corvette, i'd like to drive one but don't want the payments or insurance. I grew up rather poor, don't want to drive myself to that neighborhood again! I don't care what others do with their money. I just hate to hear the crying when it hits!
Well, get ready for lots of crying when all those that bought (especially over bought) in the last couple years! I mean Mcmansions, cars, boats, condos, airplanes, bling....!
use to be low ante, low keep, and warm in winter the 4 cs, copper,cattle, citrus, so much for being what you think you are, that 40 thousand millionaire, is up from 28 thousand,
if i had 10 years to give it, i would take those sweet orange seeds, and plant them in coffee grinds, every year until the second generation of seed crop seedlings came aBOUT, EVEN IF I HAD TO GIVE AWAY MOST OF THEM BETWEEN THE SCOTSDALE HOUSE AND THE MARKET, I WOULD WALK TO, IN THE DOWNTURN,AND MOST LIKELY THE LEMON, GRAPEFRUIT AND PIGMY DATE PALM, AND BE PREPARED TO INCUBATE CHICKEN EGGS, FOR CHICKENS, THAT ID HOPE WILL EAT THE AGRICULTURAL REFUSE. THAT, IN THE RICH! SCOTTSDALE!
WHILE WE WAIT FOR ANOTHER HOOVER OR ROOSEVELT, FOR OUR NEXT WATER SUPPLY EXPANSION SYSTEM?
gov make work projects, will include affordable housing. downturn??
aint no opieville here buddy, mayberry is long gone
aint no opieville here buddy, mayberry is long gone
I have lived in Scottsdale for 20 years and I live in a "real" neighborhood with "real" neighbors. I think everyone posting sentiments that "Scottsdale is cheap, fake and crappy" must be the 40K millionaires that moved here from somewhere else and tried to impress everyone, and finally gave up and left, thank goodness!
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