You know, it's funny, I think the homeowners who are getting increasingly pissed at renters assume we all are bitter. I think they should talk to a few of us (which they don't) - they'd see in most cases we're completely and utterly full of joy at this point in the cycle. Wouldn't ya say?
"Bitter Renter"? Ha! Try "Happy Sitter"
Howard Stanley said...
There are too many bitter renters on this blog waiting for doom and gloom so that they can scoop up properties on the pennies (not going to literally happen).
The bitter renters don't take into account all the homeowners, yes homeowners, that are: 1) not overleveraged (i.e., have greater 50% equity in their house and can pay off their house at any time); 2) are not in debt; and 3) value the stability of owning a home under reasonable financing conditions (i.e., don't have to subject your family to moving every year, staying in a good public school district system, developing ties to the community in which you would like to live for the next 20-30 years).
Yes, real estate is overinflated; yes, if a relatively small percentage of homeowners end up defaulting on their mortgages nationwide, it will cause a global economic meltdown (it will take less than 5% of Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae's portfolio to go under before there are serious global consequences).
But if that doom and gloom scenario comes to pass (to you renters that are dreaming of buying a 4/3 house in a major metro are for 100k), how many you renters will be able to afford the house?
Under an economic catastrophe, how many of you can blow 100k on a house since food, shelter, etc. . . will eat up the bulk of your expenses? I hope you bitter renters are absolutely debt-free, have $500k-1m (at least in cash), have gold, have foreign currency, etc. . . to weather the storm. If not, don't gloat too much.
And yes, we responsible homeowners that believe real estate is inflated will be able to scoop in and buy some real estate (i.e., vacation homes, investment properties) at "fire" prices if that doom and gloom scenario comes to pass but only once there is blood in the streets. Bitter renters: careful what you wish for . . . .
September 23, 2006
An HP troll warns: "Bitter renters - careful what you wish for"
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38 comments:
Quote: "3) value the stability of owning a home under reasonable financing conditions ..."
Under REASONABLE financing conditions. Thats the thumbholding key-word thats pretty much sums it up. Well, I guess we shall all see soon enough.
In reply to the bitter-"homeowner":
Firstly, you are NOT a "Homeowner". In fact NO ONE is a "homeowner". There are only various degress of HOMEDEBTORS. You do NOT "own" your home, even nominally, until you make all 360 (or more) monthly payments. Thereafter, you are STILL not a "homeowner" as the actual, REAL homeowner of your property is the state in which you reside. You then must pay perpetual RENT to your state (plus insurance and upkeep of course) in order to live in your LANDLORD'S house!!!
Secondly, having addressed your ignorance of the fact that NO ONE is a "homeowner", let us now address the currently-underway housing bubble collapse.
We are WELL AWARE that the entire U.S. (and by extension, the world's) economy is inexorably tied to the credit-bubble-induced real estate boom of the last five years or so.
Furthermore, we are also completely cognizant that as the inevitable, unavoidable bust ensues, the banking system (currently sitting on $3 TRILLION in mortgages directly, PLUS about a TRILLION of GSE MBS), the GSEs themselves (currently holding or guaranteeing $3.5 TRILLION in mortgages), the private MBS issuers (holding another TRILLION or so in privately-issued MBS), the derivatives players (with $250 TRILLION in interest-rate hedges) will ALL be very negatively impacted and that, even with the most aggressive response by the Fed and feds, we will be lucky to escape with ONLY another Great Depression.
Finally, yes indeed many of us partake in Schadenfreude at the coming mis-fortunes of those bitter-homedebtors who not only wouldn't listen to our cautionary tales of previous bubbles, but who also taunted us as "Housing Boom Luddites".
Indeed, we will all go down together, but perhaps the renters won't be AS negatively impacted.
I'm not a bitter renter, but a bubble sitter
Just waiting for some greedy dummies loose their investment properties.
Yeh, I need a place to live for me and my family and I fed up with nasty lanlords.
I'll buy a house when it will be affordable (25% of our income).
Why should I be careful of what I wish for? Do you think my wishes influence what happens?
I wish this insanity had never happened, you jacka$$. When did reasonable people have anything to say about anything? It's all about payback now. I hope the flippers all have their ARMs broken in the next two years. The flippers tried to corner the market, and denied the real buyers decent prices. Hopefully the IRS will put the screws to 'em.
Just because someone frowns on wild speculative behavior doesn't necessarily make them a "bitter renter".
As a "homedebtor" three years into a 15 yr 4% fixed mortgage (thanks for the cheap loan you WaMu morons), I too am upset by what speculation has done to our economy and the nation.
You don't have to be a renter to appreciate the problems this excessive mortgage debt is going to cause.
I can understand the anger of people who cannot afford a house at this time... but truthfully, I am angry too - about the easy money, the lack of work ethic that flipping represents, and the raw greed. Don't care much for the conspicuous consumption either.
Anon 1;13;14,
Don't get tangled up with your opinion about homeownership. I agree with your first premise. However, your going overboard with the taxes. Why, because as a citizen living in a sovereign country, you are required to pay taxes, be it income, sales or property.
Bottom line, if you have the title of the property in your name, then you become a true homeowner - period.
I Moved from florida in december at the peak and sold every piece of RE i owned there. I bought a new place on smith lake in alabama because it was one of the nicest spots in the country that was truly under valued.
It has went up 200k in one year since i had it under contract. Not everyone that owns a home is going to get killed. Will RE on smith lake go down, absolutely but my property won't go down 200k. The reason for this is its still under valued compared to other lakes and its the third cleanest in the country.
I too am waiting to go back to florida and pay cash for my second home or condo in a few years. And yes my house is paid for, its much better for me to own this home rather than rent it. My taxes are 400 dollars a year, pretty cheap huh, not bad for being on one of the prettiest lakes in the country.
If i had been renting this property i would have lost out on my equity. Just wanted to say not every renter is making out better, i'd say 99% though. And to the poster above my house and everything else i own is paid for with plenty in the bank to buy more when the crash is over.
I would bet i have put in more hours of reseaching RE than anyone on this blog including the owner for the past 6 years. I retired at 26 , i'm now 47, so i have plenty of time on my hands to do so.
I have invested in land in 3 states, so i have a little experience at it. Not just talking about it like some. I watched my individual markets and sold at the peak in each one.
That said, i do expect florida to take one of the biggest beatings in the country. Not only because of being over priced, but bad tax laws and high insurance will drive florida's home prices into the ground.
I'm a renter, but not "bitter".
I am disappointed that my good level of income cannot afford to by a single family home where I live, because the homes are almost 10 times my annual income.
"What I wish for" is simple: that home prices where I live come down to a reasonable, truthful, affordable level for me and others like me.
Personally, I doubt very much I will get what I wish for. I'll probably will have to move very soon. Maybe that fills so called "homeowners" with glee - but I'm not bitter.
I Moved from florida in December at the peak and sold every piece of RE i owned there.
My guess is that you don't own Jack and never did, chump.
My family has been bubble sitting in SO Cal (also called renting by choice) for some time
on the avice of our financial advisor who forbid us
from buying at the tippy top of a 40-50 % over inflated market.
We've had many people who bought in 2004 and 2005
who expressed their sympathies that we were still renting--this is after they were caught in a hailstorm of multiple bids and buying at 20 K above the asking price. They were the smug homeowner winners and we were the going nowhere renter losers. What a change--now I am hearing "You guys must be socking away a lot of money--you are going to be able to buy an amazing property
now that you have waited this market out!"
My family has been bubble sitting in SO Cal (also called renting by choice) for some time
on the avice of our financial advisor who forbid us
from buying at the tippy top of a 40-50 % over inflated market.
We've had many people who bought in 2004 and 2005
who expressed their sympathies that we were still renting--this is after they were caught in a hailstorm of multiple bids and buying at 20 K above the asking price. They were the smug homeowner winners and we were the going nowhere renter losers. What a change--now I am hearing "You guys must be socking away a lot of money--you are going to be able to buy an amazing property--
you were so smart not to buy" etc etc etc
Lol mort!!! Now here is a real poor sport, sorry you weren't smart enough to join in.
My neighbors laughed at me when i told them i was leaving because florida's real estate was going to crash. Now my old house in stuart is worth 50 to 60k less, if you could get someone to buy it.
The realtor across the street
from me said RE will never go down. She bought another house in port st lucie for investment. I can't wait to go back this winter and laugh at her. They sucked lots of money out of their house to buy boats and new cars. lol They were dicks so they deserve it.
Unfortunately a few of my friends are stuck with condo's i told them to sell about a year and a half ago, when condo's peaked.
I have to agree with MORT,
I wished this insanity never happened, but since it did, i hope all who created it will suffer the consequences, like they have put everyone else through!
Howard: What makes you think we even rent? Some of us do own our homes and have zero debt and have cash reserves as you mentioned.
You just can't help hating those of us who are responsible financially, can you? It just gets your panties in a bunch, huh?
Bitter?? I sold everything last year and am sitting on $600K in cash. The money market interest (5%) alone pays my rent on my swanky 4 bedroom house in a top school district. I make $300K+ a year and am 34, single and banging a hot 24 year old.
I'm not bitter. Are you?
Amen to the folks that pointed out that you dont own a thing until that title is sitting in your lap. Until then you own jack and $hit and Jack just left town. (probably due to foreclosure)
I am a renter and I am not bitter at all. I am gushing a bit these days as i see the trend. I might finally be able to afford something close to work. I tried owning but could only afford something over 70 miles away. I sold that place and made some money. I hope that the bit of money will one day soon make all of that driving and lost time mean something. I will tell you, even as i sat in hours of traffic i never blamed flippers and speculators and RE agents alike. I blamed myself for not making more. I make over 125K a year. not rich not shabby. I should be able to afford a ranch right?!?
You know folks like this "be careful what you wish for" person are probably just the type that would get all offended if you offer them anything under asking price for their moldy roach house. They would be BITTER if they couldnt take full advantage of the wave.
Bitter renter? Come on, give me a break. I’m bitter that you didn’t listen to us about the housing bubble nor did you use a common sense approach by comparing income data to historic prices and now after signing on the dotted line, YOU are liable to the bank for the next 15-30 years for an asset that is depreciating (loosing money) as the market crashes and liquidity disappears like the beers in my fridge. Common sense must not be a trait of many homebuyers. These people foolishly thought that huge amounts of leverage was the wise financial thing to do, regardless of being able to get the “milk” for much cheaper by renting. They have this dumbness called complacency that sucks all of their ability to think responsibly right out of their foreheads. Poor fools. Am I also bitter about how great my landlord is? Maybe I’m just very lucky, but my landlord cuts the grass in the big yard, fixes things when they break, makes sure the oil tank is full and lets me use the garage and attic as part of my rental for pennies on the dollar compared to house prices. (This is where the milk for cheaper part should start to connect for those homebuyers who understand complex financial analogies.) I am however most bitter that after being beaten over the head by reality and the constant drumming of market news you still try to cast stones at those who chose not to be so foolish with their financial future and rent. Notice I said chose because anyone could have bought a house that wanted too, yes even I was approved for over half a million. I thought it was comical and laughed. HaHaHa Maybe you should have just laughed also.
"I make $300K+ a year and am 34, single and banging a hot 24 year old"
well you need to get married and add a little complexity to your life already.
frustrated yes, bitter no.
Bitter: hard to admit or accept
Frustrated: worthless or of no avail; defeat; nullify:
I have been trying to figure out how i could get my family in a house of our own for years. i would like a tax benefit, 4 walls of my own to customize as we see fit, a tree house for the kids and the rest of it. It has been very frustrating to see how the situation tries to lead you by the nose into bankruptcy. If you call that bitter you do not know the meaning of the word and you are grammatically challenged as you are mathematically. For this i dub you retarded. i would imagine you know the meaning of the word.
I divorced my "complexity" last year after she started banging her personal trainer. Now, I've never been happier in my life ... I am about as likely to get married again as I am likely to buy a million dollar condo in Chandler, Arizona with a 7% option-ARM.
Atticus,
You go man. S I M P L I F Y.
Kieth you speak of angry trolls, but what bout dogcrap green? He has been spot on in his economic calls, do you fear his prediction on a home builders boom is unfolding before your eyes? Why do you destroy all his post? It appears you are in serious need of an education. Take what he has to offer. Cash out on your losing gold, oil, and silver holdings and buy a shack in the slum efore that is even out of reach for you.
I've noticed keith deleting alot of my comments as well. Your trying to keep your blog a one sided, hyped, extremist site, keith.
I know it comforts you to think I am some overweight, bald slob, but you'll just have to live with the fact that I just the opposite. Anyway, bitterness is not just for greedy flippers ... it comes in all shapes and sizes.
"liquidity disappears like the beers in my fridge" - LMAO
I have $70,000.00 in cash and $250,000.00 in liquid assets. I own no gold, no debt, and no house. I also have two businesses worth approximately $700,000.00. May I gloat now?
I can suck my own penis to the hilt- may I gloat now?
Wow. The guy featured in the post is a raving lunatic.
Why the heck would a "safe" homeowner wish ill will on somebody who just wants to buy a house with sane financing within prudent income/PITI guidelines?
What are you afraid of man?
"Real estate made me rich and I'm glad for that. I also know a bubble when I see one."
Ditto Mr. Vincent. Well said.
Things are gonna get tough regardless of whether you rent or own. Enjoy the bubble while it lasts.
I was a bitter renter, I admit it. I couldn't understand how day laborers were buying $400k houses. I got some good advice from an elderly friend who said, "Wait it out. This whole boom is being funded with funny money. Cash will be king; save plenty of it."
I'm patiently waiting, watching my savings grow, while I live in my landlord's two year-old house at below-market rent. I do check to make sure he's current on the taxes and that the house doesn't show up on the foreclosure websites. I wouldn't want to have to move out of this nice new house before my lease is up just because the landlord can't swing the mortgage. I hope his ARM isn't adjusting, since I've got a year lease.
Bitter? No. I think "patient" is the more apt description. Investors and homeowners think they're pimping the renters. Not so. Renters with common sense and high salaries are biding their time and renting overvalued homes at a discount, waiting for the bubble to burst.
I think my landlord's already lost money since he bought this house, at least according to zillow.com. No, I'm not bitter anymore. I'm just grateful that I didn't join in the "March of the Real Estate Lemmings."
that guy makes alot of sense, Keith is a tool.
The taxes on some of the homes in my neighborhood are almost as high as the rent for my basement jr. one bedroom with free gas and electric, no interest or insurance fees ... short walk to public transportation, and a free wireless internet connection c/o one of my neighbors.
All I have to say is I did not wish for any of this to happen. Who did? I also have to say I am so sick of gloating idiots that float through life oblivious to reality spouting off about how there home has increased in value by 50% in the last 2-3 years. Did everyone's salary increase by 50%? NO!!! Am I happy every day and every moment that I read a story about how the housing market is imploding. Yes...I get gleeful. The sooner all this madness plays out, the better. It's all the buyers that supported this market. Not the people astonished by the madness and waiting it out. Will everyone suffer? Yes. I know this. Just as all the "home owners" were gleeful on the way up...astonishingly detached from reality with out a care for all the people that got worked over by this financial bubble...I will be gleeful on the way down. Only I will be 100% aware of the disaster throughout the entire process. Aware of the impending crisis. It comes down to unawareness vs. awareness...at least all the bubble sitters are aware of the reality. We're not the ones you should be lecturing!!!!! Go post on all your "flip this" and "flip that" sites...they could use your "no brainer" comments!!!!
If you ever reanted in a cut-throat place like Scottsdale, Az, you would not be a happy renter!!
The grred and sadistic behavior shown by landlords in a tight market here is perverse.
I thinking of a french styled hanging in the town square.
I count myself as a smug renter not a bitter renter. Recognizing bullsh*t and acting accordingly takes balls especially when EVERYONE else is under the spell of bullsh*t and giving you heat for bucking the trend. Contrarians and realists take more sh*t in a year than most people can stand in a lifetime. They take comfort in the fact that they avoid the obvious pitfalls that other people don't see or just refuse to see. They are ususally too busy blowing smoke up each other's asses.
Keith:
Thanks for posting my comment.
It's too bad you missed my main point: if housing collapses leading to a global financial meltdown because a relatively small percentage of flippers/speculators/over-leveraged wanna be homeowners drove real estate prices to insane levels, we (renters and homeowners alike) will all have larger problems to worry about than picking off a 4/3 house for pennies on the dollar. So maybe people should think twice before being so gleeful.
And for the record: other than my mortgage, I am absolutely debt-free (and yes, I can pay my mortgage off if I chose to do it, but I choose to leave my 15 year 5% fixed rate mortgage in place); have $500k-1m (at least in cash); have gold (didn't keep buying and selling like you Keith - - afterall, gold is NOT an investment it is a hedge); have foreign currency; etc. . . .
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