How do you feel about spending 28% of your work day today to make money to send to the federal government, so that Chris Dodd and friends can spend it bailing out reckless and greedy people who 'bought' homes they knew they couldn't afford during an obvious financial mania, while you on the other hand made wise and responsible financial decisions?
Bonus question: Are you going to take this lying down?
July 30, 2008
HousingPANIC Stupid Question of the Day
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79 comments:
taking it laying down is much more comfortable than taking it bent over.
besides, the government has guns, tanks, bombs, my rights, and is willing and able to torture.
voting doesn't help when the choices look different but act the same...and your neighbors don't know jack about economics or finance, but enjoy their new toys until they are taken away.
something close to armageddon is going to have to happen before the average person can or will do anything.
i, for one, choose to be comfortably numb. it's better than dead from a stroke or heart attack.
Remember the "Million Man March"?
Ever wonder why the race card is constantly in your face from the time you are born in America? (White/Black/Brown it does not matter)
If they keep the focus off the really important issues and keep the people hateing on each other...They can continue to steal,tax,remove freedoms paid for with blood with-out so much as a wimper from the sheeple.
There should be a 8 Million person march on DC over the housing bailout bill Dodd & his buddies just force fed us....
"How do you feel about spending 28% of your work day today to make money to send to the federal government"
I wish it were 28%. When including medicare and social security as well as state income tax it's more like 45% for me.
And Obama will make it 55% before he's through.
KEEP VOTING DEM and all will be well, I promise.
Very curious question from a devoted supporter of Obama who would like to take the top tax rate to 40% and the all-in marginal tax rate to >60% (including SS, Medicare, etc.). In addition, Obama believes this insane legislation doesn't go far enough. Finally, he also wants to initiate another "stimulus" program (print more money to hand out so people can "consume").
All of these are anathema to you Keith... how the f&*( can you support this clown? Because he sounds good????
Obama wants to roll back the Bush tax cuts (wealthiest 1%) while giving tax cuts to the middle class
I agree with both.
I STRONGLY disagree with his stupid idea to impose the payroll tax on salaries above $250,000.
I disagree with Obama on many important issues. However I find McCain unacceptable. In a two-party system, you have to make a choice (or throw your vote away). I've made mine, and I'll fight Obama and the Dems whenever I disagree.
My greatest hope is that ALL incumbents are voted out of office. And again. And again. And again. Until they get the message that they work for the American people, not the lobbyists. And I'd also like to see the rise of a strong third centrist / libertarian party, made up of pissed off Republicans to start, and then joined by independents and libertarians.
How do you feel about spending 28% of your work day today to make money to send to the federal government, so that Chris Dodd and friends can spend it...
After 4 years of the Obama presidency - 28% will be the "good old days"
If you're not making more than $250,000, why are you so afraid of Obama?
Damn, must be a lot of rich HP'ers
Obama wants another STIMULUS PACKAGE!!!! He's a phony just like the rest of them.
There can't be any tax cuts for ANYONE. What we need is to increase the tax on gas ($0.50 per year for the next 4 years) AND take the cap off the payroll taxes (but don't make employers match after $102,500 or whatever it is now). Then we have to cut our military expenditures by about $300BN and then we have to MEANS TEST SS AND MEDICARE.
And after that, anyone who wants to spend more money should be forced to find $1.50 in spending cuts for every new $1 in new program spending.
We're either going to do this or we aren't. Half way is just a waste of time.
keith said...
I disagree with Obama on many important issues. However I find McCain unacceptable. In a two-party system, you have to make a choice (or throw your vote away). I've made mine, and I'll fight Obama and the Dems whenever I disagree.
I’m voting for the person who I think will do the best job, and it’s not one of these two. You’re voting for the lesser of two evils, and I’m throwing my vote away?
My greatest hope is that ALL incumbents are voted out of office. And again. And again. And again.
But keith, don’t you have to vote for the most likely candidate to win? After all, you’d be throwing your vote away if you didn’t
I am so pissed off right now, but the problem is....WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT???
What difference does it make whether my tax rate is 5% or 75% as long as Uncle Scam continues to spend the same amount of money?
I am either taxed up front and in the open (the 50% or so that I pay in Federal and State income tax, Socialist Security and Medicare, sales tax, the lower wages that I get from my tax-burdened employer, the higher prices that I must pay when businesses that I patronize pass their tax burdens on to me, and all the other less common taxes and fees), or it is taxed from me surreptitiously through inflation.
One political party at least has the courage to acknowledge that taxes need to increase (perhaps implicitly recognizing that inflation is a regressive tax?) But that party is ever insistant that it won't raise "your" taxes -- only the taxes of those greedy rich folks and their corporations. They will never talk in specifics of whom they consider to be rich, and they seem to be oblivious to the fact that tax hikes on corporations and their officers mean wage suppression and job cuts for workers because the guys at the top are under greater pressure to protect their margins. (Of coure, this party realizes that all these problems can be solved by increasing the minimum wage and having government employment for everyone. I can't wait for the $200/hr minimum wage so we can all be rich!)
The other political party is refershing in that it at least pays lip service to smaller, less burdensome government. However, this party thinks that small government simply means lower taxes; it refuses to acknowledge that lower taxes mean nothing without lower spending. (Also, smaller government does not include smaller government with regard to the military, the police, prisons, drugs, or sex. It makes you wonder who we got along all those years without spending trillions of dollars every year on these things.) The philosophy seems to be "spend it now and let your grandkids pay for it." Great. This is also really inflationtary, and consequently hurts poor people the most. Is there any wonder that is party is percieved as being partial to the wealthy?
Bottom line: Spending is really what matters more than taxing, but no one seems to have the courage to confront it. I tend to agree with Anon 11:51.
Anon 11:51
I am now adapting your policy about "laying down". Your summation is dead on.
I will now go back to Pink Floyd playing "Comfortably Numb".
I feel that the housing bill is JUSTIFIED. I am a homeowner who bought a 699K condo with one percent down. I had a loan that will re adjust and thus I hope the Congress passes more housing bills to help people like me out. Look, if Congress doesn't step in and save the real estate industry, then the entire world economy will collapse and we will enter into a massive depression.
Besides, you HP'ers are SUCKERS. You could have joined the party and bought houses you couldn't afford, watch the price zoom, and then take out a home equity loan and use it to live a lavish lifestyle. But no, you suckers were greddy; saving your money and hoping for real estate to crash. So now that you find that you will pay for my house who is the real sucker? How do you really feel?
i feel about the same as i do to finance every other wasteful federal government program.
They pretend to pay me and I pretend to work...
I blog, hoping that I can wake a few people up to the economic reality that surrounds them and the potential danger that lies ahead.
Third parties are the solution (facilitated by instant-runoff elections, which seem unlikely). There is very little difference between Dem/Repub these days.
Vote green, vote libertarian, whatever...ANYTHING else...and insist on 3rd party inclusion in debates. Until then, same 'ol same 'ol. The country is cooked.
@Kilgore
Are you sure you aren't Bitterrenter? Because talking out of your ass like that, you both sound similar. Raising taxes means I have less money to spend on other things. That means companies will lose money, and go out of business. Jobs will be lost, and less money for taxes will be available for collection. Then your ubber government shuts down, and we..., we go the way of the Roman Empire.
On a similar note, Keith. I don't make over $250k, but my boss does. If his taxes go up, he's going to have to let some people go. I'm not worried yet, but it is just a matter of time. When you start redistributing wealth from those who employ people and buy products to those who suck on the teat of the 'system', you are damning all of us. Oh wait, not you, since you are living abroad. Not all of us have that luxury.
I can only hope that I am young enough to be able to live through a possible reign of St. Barry and see prosperous times after.
Nick in Chicago said:" you HP'ers are SUCKERS. You could have joined the party and bought houses you couldn't afford, watch the price zoom, and then take out a home equity loan and use it to live a lavish lifestyle."
---------
With sheeple like you, no wonder we're in trouble.
I wish it were only 28%. Add up all the bullshit where I live and I'm up in the 40s.
God that pisses me off.
How do you feel about spending 28% of your work day today to make money to send to the federal government, so that Chris Dodd and friends can spend it bailing out reckless and greedy people who 'bought' homes they knew they couldn't afford during an obvious financial mania, while you on the other hand made wise and responsible financial decisions.
---------------------------------
Hey. It sounds like my job working for a big international company. Except they take another 60% of my labor for their hair brained schemes. They're even more reckless with the stockholder's money than the government is with the taxpayer's money.
July 30, 2008 11:51 AM
Anonymous 6% is DEAD said...
If they keep the focus off the really important issues and keep the people hating each other...They can continue to steal,tax,remove freedoms paid for with blood with-out so much as a wimper from the sheeple."
Most of the sheeple have already figured out it wasn't some Mexican immigrant who took away their pension, or sold them some dodgy mortgage.
Quick. Cue Shawn Hannity and Rushie Limbaugh. We need another distraction. Must not allow the public to focus on the Libertarian Overclass that has made the USA the failed state that it is.
I don't pay 28%. As another posted pointed out, with sales tax, tax factored into the cost of goods and services, etc. it is closer to 50%.
I used to be like an HP'er a would say I'd gladly pay 50% of my earnings in taxes if I was guaranteed a 4-year education and health care. A friend suggested I already did pay 50%. My naivete turned to outrage after I tracked my expenses and added it up.
50% for nothing.
Nick said "I feel that the housing bill is JUSTIFIED. I am a homeowner who bought a 699K condo with one percent down. I had a loan that will re adjust and thus I hope the Congress passes more housing bills to help people like me out. Look, if Congress doesn't step in and save the real estate industry, then the entire world economy will collapse and we will enter into a massive depression."
A $699,000 condo!!!! My God for $699,000 I can buy a 5000 sq foot, 6 bedroom, 4 1/2 bath cedar/stone contemporary home w/pool,stocked lake,fountain,horse barn with indoor riding ring,gazebo & 6 car garage on Private 20 acres w/riding trails, 30 minutes from town. http://www.starone.com/displaylist.asw?listnum=1122310&mls=cincy
And another great thing about our area-- home prices have only dropped about 8% from peak.
Your man Obama wants to make it 40%, then throw in another 6.2% (plus 6.2% from your employer) to feed the SS ponzi scheme.
I wish it was only 28%!
"I am so pissed off right now, but the problem is....WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT???"
I can think of a lot of things that you can do. You would, however, likely be labeled a "domestic terrorist" or "enemy combatant." Whatever you do, just don't buy your provisions with a credit card.
Of course we are going to take it lying down, the government played this one perfectly. What is the use trying to fight it?
Talk about a Ponzi Scheme, the whole US economy, really the global economy is a rigged, Vegas casino-like Ponzi scheme.
The guy in the first post that has chosen to be comfortably numb has the right approach. After that just do the best you can and try not to screw your fellow man along the way.
Why be like your government?
Why don't we just institute a government stimulus package and have every citizen contribute 10 bucks to paying down the national debt?
That should take the deficit down to...oh...never mind.
The socialist liberal idiots don't mind
If you're not making more than $250,000, why are you so afraid of Obama?
Because he's a liar and a charlatan
keith said...
Obama wants to roll back the Bush tax cuts (wealthiest 1%) while giving tax cuts to the middle class
=====
top 1% pays 40% of taxes. guess to liberals like you that's not enough eh?
"Ohio Loan Officer said...
And another great thing about our area-- home prices have only dropped about 8% from peak."
Spoken like a true blue RealWhore REIC shill.
You should get together with DeGroot and Caveman for a Real Estate 3-some...
keith said...
If you're not making more than $250,000, why are you so afraid of Obama?
==========
keith you are really naive if you think only "the rich" will have taxes raised by the messiah. stick to housing issues, you know zilch about politics
I thought I taught you guys better...don't fight the fed...even if they're wrong.
Absolutely, some taxes will be raised in the next administration. The REPUBLICAN government of the last few years raised the debt of this country by about $5 TRILLION. That's about $20,000 for each of you.
The REAL question is, how do EACH OF YOU plan to pay this off? Cash, credit card, or home equity? LOL
Here's a hint:
The Democrats will increase taxes on the RICH--taxes that were CUT during a war and a recession. Tax cuts the rich never asked for. Tax cuts that obviously NEVER "trickled down" on you in the middle class. (Something trickled down on you, alright, but it wasn't the tax cuts!)
And there's a limit on the Dems tax increases, and a limit on their spending, because if they go too far and the economy suffers, tax revenue goes down. It's called the Laffer curve--look it up.
Meanwhile, the Republicans think they can spend, spend, spend, kill, kill, destroy, get rich, etc, for the next 100 years (see: McCain) perhaps, while CUTTING taxes. All they have to do it create UNLIMITED FUTURE DEBT LIABILITIES. They think it's an open ended, unlimited foolproof scheme, and it will be--until you are burning dollar bills in your stove for heat.
Schiff didn't have to be a genius to see what was coming: 1. americans tapped out. 2. banks tapped out. 3. CREDIT CRUNCH. GOTCHA!
So which is it, republican idiots? You want to pay a bit more, MAYBE, to the government over the next few years, and keep your lifestyle more or less going, OR, do you want to stand in line at a failed bank so you can get paper for your stove?
WHICH IS IT, SPEND-AND-DEBT REPUBLICAN IDIOTS?
(Too bad we can't charge the $5 trillion just to the Dubya voters--then it would be $40K each. You gotta ask yourselves--WAS IT WORTH IT?)
Happyrenter,
We have to raise taxes AND we have to cut spending dramatically AND IT WILL HURT! But it's gonna hurt a hell of a lot less than if we do nothing. Because at some point (I think soon, especially at the municipal and state gov't level), our government is going to find that the world isn't willing to buy any of our worthless long term notes because it's so obvious that we have no intention of paying them back with real money. That will have a much more severe impact on our economy than raising taxes now.
It's now or never. It's time to bite the bullet.
And I happen to be a business owner and nobody hates taxes more than I do, but we don't really have much of a choice seeing as how we're $53trillion in debt and our tax revenues are less than $3trillion a year. If we weren't able to print money, no bank in the world would EVER loan us money.
In 2007 I paid around $49,000 to the IRS.
Eevery gallon of gas I buy costs me 52 cents per gallon in taxes.
I pay 6% in sales tax on pretty much every dollar I spend that isn't grocery food.
Even though I rent I indirectly pay thousands of dollars a year in peoperty taxes.
My cars cost me close to $1000 a year in registration fees I pay to the state/county.
And there is also cell phone FCC tax, cable bill tax, electricty surcharge tax. Every time I rent a car or stay at a hotel there is some tax slapped on. Look at a plane ticket and 15-20% of the cost is taxes. It goes on and on and on. Hidden fees and taxes at every turn.
And yet Obama and Keith think I don't may enough. Whatever.
Top 1% make $1,200,000+, pay 39.5% of the taxes, enjoy 40%+ of the Bush cuts
http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm
I'm for eliminating the income tax. Period. But since we don't have that courage as a country, next best choice is to cut taxes for everyone except the top 1% or 5%.
Or cut everyone's taxes and dramatically cut government spending, an even better option.
Pull all US troops out of every country on earth, and raise the retirement age to 70.
Problem solved.
Top 1% make $1,200,000+, pay 39.5% of the taxes, enjoy 40%+ of the Bush cuts
========
the bush cuts are irrelevant. you are arguing that 1% paying 40% of taxes is somehow unfair to the other 99%. it is a ludicrous argument.
bottom 50% pays 3% of taxes. you are right, the tax code is really unfair.
Obam will change things!
I earned 400K + AGI last year... lost my job this year. I'm going to stay retired and under the radar. Let O(s)bama bail me out.
It's time for a revolution. For those who don't have 3rd party tax reporting expect tax compliance to drop from 45% to the low single digits.
Hey everybody, let's bartend and strip part time. Cash economy.
Don't underestimate the law of unintended consequences.
-Mike
Ohio loan officer:
One problem: the $699K mansion you listed is in Indiana. Having lived in South Bend I can say that there is now way I'd pay anything to live in Indiana. It's a small minded provincial craphole of a state. Total fly over country. This is a state where high school basketball and football is aired on the major local channels during prime time, a true land sung about in John 'Cougar' Mellancamp's song "Jack & Diane" where life ends after high school. A land where it is grey skies 80% of the time and the weather swings from freezing cold 6 months of the year right into unbearable humid summer.
Keep your $699K mansion, thank you.
-Mike
Taxes and fees are hidden because if they were upfront and built into the 'retail' price EVERYONE would know the true cost of everything.....the government, big business, the medical community et al DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THE TRUE COST OF ANYTHING!
An honest game of three card monte ain't very profitable for the house.
My greatest hope is that ALL incumbents are voted out of office.
OBAMA is an incumbant of something since 1997. What has he changed??
The deficits run in the Bush years are not a problem caused by tax revenue shortfalls. The tax take has never been higher for the Federal government. The problem has been on the spending side and any true Republican is horrified by this enormous increases in Federal spending under Bush. From the prescription drug benefit to the giant boondoggle that is the Dept of Homeland Security it is appalling. I think the figure is 60% growth during the Bush years. The war in Iraq was obviously poorly planned and now we get new bailouts and stimulus plans to boot.
The problem with the Dems is they will raise taxes thinking that will fix the problem but spending will increase even more with all their pet projects and programs. Yes, Clinton had a year or two of surplus but that was with a true Republican congress and with the benefit of soaring capital gains revenue from the tech/telecom/internet stock bubble which won't be repeated any time soon.
Keith (off topic),
You haven't linked the post from the WSJ yesterday that described the loophole in the bailout plan that lets speculators profit from the bailout should house prices rise.
Assuming one qualifies as distressed (payments > 31% of income per month) they get to:
- lower the principle on their loan
- lower their interest rate which is now fixed and backed by FHA
But, they are supposed to share any profits in the home when sold with the bank UNLESS, they refinance to a non-FHA loan first. If one assumes the home has increased in value then its likely that refinancing will be available so those being bailed out can reap profits from this sordid deal.
So, lets say there are neighbors in CA each of whom paid $500k for a house that is now worth $400k. The first put down 20% and pays <31% of his income to finance the house each month. The second puts 0 down and pays 40% per month so he can refinance the loan to say $400k and get a subsidized lower rate through FHA. 5 years from now lets say the houses are worth $500k again. The first guy (the responsible one) sells his house and loses money since he has to pay 5-6% to a realtor. The second sells his house after refinancing and pockets roughly $75k thanks to the taxpayers of the US.
You need to discuss this.
only thing left to do is to pay the money and get use to being just another schmuck in the third world.
like the man said, the guy with the guns wins the argument.....
NICK IN THE REAL WORLD YOUR CONDO IS WORTH ONLY 69.000 BUT HELL WE WILL CALL IT 690,000 AND PICK UP 10 TIMES THE PROPERTY TAX MONEYS TO SPEND ON COPPERS ET AL.................
"I thought I taught you guys better...don't fight the fed...even if they're wrong."
Dude, F the Fed.
You have 1 of 2 choices in life - to die on your feet standing up for what you believe in or dying on your knees sucking cock.
The question is, do you like sucking cock?
And just remember folks, if you are not unemployed, you do not have to pay income tax.
Hello!
WHEN, oh WHEN will the people make a constitutional amendment that has NONE OF THE ABOVE as a votable option? If none of the above gets the majority vote, all the candidates are disqualified and the parties must submit new candidates.
What? The office is temporarily vacant? Then let it be until we stop voting in scumbags.
It would be thought a hard government that should tax its people one tenth part - Ben Franklin
You do realize that if the bottom 10% gave 100% of their income to the Federal Gov't that it'd amount to less than 1% of the tax base, right?
The only fair income tax is a flat tax. Everything else is BS
And the only good income tax is 0%.
Kill the IRS. Throw away the United States Tax Code. Get rid of all the tax accountants.
Unleash the beast.
Desperate times call for desperate (and overdue) measures
Nick in Chicago, I don't think what your saying is anything to be proud of. YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING SO GREAT.IMHO The people who had nothing to do with this whole mess need to be the ones feeling proud. Let not get our Apples and Oranges mixed up. IMHO
"In a two-party system, you have to make a choice (or throw your vote away)."
It's too bad most people feel this way, that is why we will always have a two party system and nothing changes.
"Keith (off topic),
You haven't linked the post from the WSJ yesterday that described the loophole in the bailout plan that lets speculators profit from the bailout should house prices rise."
What can we do?
Fight this loophole and demand dishonest appraisers be brought up on charges, and banks like Wells Fargo be fined and exempted from Fannie/Freddie Bailout loan participation.
Read this:
http://tiny.cc/9i5rF
The Bill is Passed, all we can do now is let our Representatives know we are watching for fraud and abuse of the Bill that will re-inflate house prices.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The bottom 50% pays 3% of taxes. you are right, the tax code is really unfair.
-------------------------------
You must be using statistics from a Libertarian Think Tank. More than 30% of the Fed taxes are from Social Security, and the people earning over $90,000 (or those with unearned income) don't even pay that tax.
You do realize that if the bottom 10% gave 100% of their income to the Federal Gov't that it'd amount to less than 1% of the tax base, right?
=====
exactly. which is why it is stupid to expect a tax cut for anyone other than the rich. you liberals cry about the rich getting tax cuts and the poor getting nothing. well no shit. the rich are the only ones who pay taxes, so by definition only the rich can ever get a tax cut.
When you are figuring out your budget for the month (or year, or whatever), do YOU say, "I need to make more money and spend less", or do you make a choice as to which you will do. I'm guessing you do what everybody else does and prioritize what you need to spend money on. This is where current Republicans and general issue Democrats just don't get it. Taxes are too high for what they go to already. We need to stop spending on those who aren't putting in to the system. We need to stop trying to make this country idiot-proof, and allow people to accept failure for their own mistakes.
"We have to raise taxes AND we have to cut spending dramatically AND IT WILL HURT! But it's gonna hurt a hell of a lot less than if we do nothing. Because at some point (I think soon, especially at the municipal and state gov't level), our government is going to find that the world isn't willing to buy any of our worthless long term notes because it's so obvious that we have no intention of paying them back with real money. That will have a much more severe impact on our economy than raising taxes now.
It's now or never. It's time to bite the bullet.
And I happen to be a business owner and nobody hates taxes more than I do, but we don't really have much of a choice seeing as how we're $53trillion in debt and our tax revenues are less than $3trillion a year. If we weren't able to print money, no bank in the world would EVER loan us money.
Most of the sheeple have already figured out it wasn't some Mexican immigrant who took away their pension, or sold them some dodgy mortgage.
Actually it was. Millions of illegals that cross the border, use and abuse of our infrastructure and natural resources, but never pay a dime for them since 80% of illegals' under-the-table cash earnings goes back to Mexico.
No wonder the US is running out of water and energy, infrastructure is decaying, cities are bankrupt, our healthcare system has chocked, and our prisons overflowing with Mexican gangs.
Meanwhile, the honest taxpayer picks up the tab, while those millions of illegals breed like flies in the US so we can all support their zillion babies.
Only a retard or a crooked politician would defend this kind of disgusting immigration.
A nation of whiners indeed. Why does everyone cry so much in here. My goodness! Cry , Cry, and look how good we have it compare to the other nations. Everyone needs to grow up. Sure there are people in trouble but this will come to pass and will remain a great nation. The reason is because we Americans work hard!
Relax people. Did you ever wonder why Hillary Clinton is happily planning her 2012 campaign, and Sen. Jim Webb said "no thanks" when Obama offered him VP?
They both know Obama will be a one term-er due to the sh!t storm that's about to hit the fan. By 2011, he and his administration will be blamed for every damn problem imaginable, and he'll go down as the "Jimmy Carter" of the 21st century.
How does the purchase of a $300 Norinco SKS and 1000 rounds ($195) of Russian ammo stimulate the US economy?
Aw,, F*ck it, who cares!
Enjoy the die-off
No I love the government. It pleases the bejeezus out of me that I pay an average income tax rate of about 33% rolled up (~ 41% marginal rate with fed + the wonderful state of CA), and that the gubmint rewards me for my vast contributions by (a) not giving me free money (the income tax rebate); (b) trying with all their might to keep housing over-priced, to diminish the wisdom of my choices and reward the stupidity of others' choices; and (c) devaluing our currency and throwing away the economic advantages that my country has enjoyed in the process of (b). Thanks bunches US gubmint! Way to go speaker Pelosi! Good job electing Bush twice, wise countrymen! Your judgment is excellent. Keep steering us straight towards that iceberg, smart people.
I say lets impose the tax hikes on the lenders ,Wall Street investment firms , the rating agencies ,the real estate people and Corporations in general . For 10 years make the people who benefited from the housing mess pay a punishment tax for a fake housing market in this Country . This is not a minor crime ,but a major crime .
Any borrower to be found to of lied on their loan application has to pay a extra 20% income tax until their larceny is paid for .Some of the players need to go to jail .
Because of this mess ,the government can only take taxes from where it's possible . A flat tax will never work because the poor pay a higher percent age of their income toward basic survival . The rich give up additional luxuries when they pay higher taxes . The rich have a great amount of tax write offs that make the real tax they pay a much lower %
usually .
I would like to see the IRS do away with tax write offs ,but still keep a progressive tax system .
Why should the government give writes off for a business buying a piece of machinery that might be needed for a business .
Perhaps true medical emergency writes offs , such as high medical expenses ,should remain as a write off,or tax write offs for disasters that could befall a person or company which might render the entity from paying taxes because of losses .
Keith,
That table that you showed has $500k as cut-off line for top 1% in 2010. It's a highly questionable number. The last tax record we have (for 2006) had the cut-off line around $350k. That's not exactly super rich . . . just your typical professionals like specialist doctors, and small business owners, who are primary drivers of job creation in our economy.
Not sure why anyone would think the money of such a person would create more productive jobs if it is taken from them and sieved through the government bureacracy making the round trip to DC and Iraq, instead of, say, just let the doc or the small-time employer spend the money locally and hire more helpers.
Nick in Chicago,
So how is quality of life after paying 31%+ voluntary tax on your income just to keep yourself in a condo?
One of those days, people are going to wake and realize that residential housing has no value aside from the living that one can get out of it (rent equivalent). The present cash value of such a cash flow stream is all that a house is worth. Giving you the title paper is just a way of having you do the maitenance work while the bank still collects rent from you every month.
BTW, without the bailout, the world economy would not have collapsed. In fact, without the bailout, the banks might have had an incentive to do some work-out with the debtor whereas now the banks have the government backstopping them so they don't have to make as many concessions.
"You must be using statistics from a Libertarian Think Tank. More than 30% of the Fed taxes are from Social Security, and the people earning over $90,000 (or those with unearned income) don't even pay that tax."
First off jackass it's $102,000 not $90,000. I wouldn't expect you to know this since you probably make $11.25 an hour.
Second, SS is a benefit that you in theory will get back at retirement. So it is not a tax per se.
Third it's not a libertarian think tank, it's IRS data available right now at irs.gov.
top 1% pays 40% of taxes. guess to liberals like you that's not enough eh?
This is the same kind of numerical idiocy that had people screaming about oil company profits without looking at the profit margins. If you want to see a number that actually has meaning, go see who pays the highest percentage of their income in taxes.
It is hilarious that you defend a system that's deliberately stacked against you. At least it's the system you deserve!
"I blog, hoping that I can wake a few people up to the economic reality that surrounds them and the potential danger that lies ahead."
The time for words has come to an end.
What ever my effective tax rate is below 1 percent. We make good money and play the game fair and square and have plenty of write offs.
Obama wants to roll back the Bush tax cuts (wealthiest 1%) while giving tax cuts to the middle class
Two thoughts:
1. Doesn't matter. The rich make money because they're smart, and will always find a way to beat the latest tax hikes. I'm already working with a tax attorney on changing my structure and how I receive my income from my company.
2. The top 10% already pay 80% of all tax revenue. How much more does he want from us? You can't squeeze blood from a rock.
Time to get the lazy-asses who never had any ambition and never got an education and are now working at McDonald's or in a bar to cough up their "fair share."
We've already been coerced into taking it - face down, ass up, no lube.
These clowns don't represent me or anyone i know for that matter.
Vive la guillotine!!!
I think Nick In Chicago was being sarcastic
We need to pretest this housing bailout in masses. That is the only way to change things. We need a leader to organize the pissed off masses
Yet another beef I have with Obama's proposal to pop the cap on FICA is that it would only hit the "working rich". You know, people who worked hard in school (or the school of hard knocks) to get an education (or create a small business). They're small business owners such as farmers, contractors, restaurateurs, as well as professionals such as engineers, doctors, accountants, lawyers, salespeople. Most aren't super-wealthy. So who won't be taking the new FICA up the arse? Yep, that would be anyone who's in a position to structure their income to flow as something other than "wages", like sports stars, rock stars, movie stars, trial lawyers, and of course the "idle rich".
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