February 23, 2008

HousingPANIC Stupid Question of the Day

In the end, who do you think will get screwed the worst by the housing bubble and crash:

A) People under 40
B) People over 40

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

"A"
they've probably never been thru a RE cycle & think the RE "always go up"

Every generation gets this kick in the teeth!!

Anonymous said...

.

The under 40 crowd that thought they were gonna set the world on fire with shrewd dealings!



.

Anonymous said...

Obviously the people over 40 who believed the MSNBC talking heads when they were counting home equity as retirement savings. The under 40 crowd, if they own and get totally hosed in price, will walk away and have time to start over.

Anonymous said...

People Under 40, because they are the "must have it all now" group. Example: I still drive used cars that are at best over 10 years old. I also still own a 1965 mustang that I paid $2,100 for in 1998 as an antique vehicle. My friend's 22 year old daughter, lives at home and drives a brand new SUV. (credit of course). This among college loans, etc
By the way, no one has mentioned the coming College Loan crisis this fall! No lending money from the banks and big daddy goverment has no more cash in that capacity. GOOD LUCK COLLEGE KIDS!

Ed said...

,
,
,
,
Silly question. Why are you so hung up on young vs. old? GenX/Y vs. Boomers?

You go on and on about Obama and how great he is about uniting us. Then your turn around and ask questions like this, practically begging for a young vs. old fight.

Makes no sense.

There are stupid 35 year olds and stupid 55 year olds. There are smart 32 year olds and smart 62 year olds. There are greedy 29 year olds who bought way too much house and there are greedy 53 year olds who bought way too much house. This whole us vs. them is so immature.

Mitesh Damania said...

The baby boomers wanted to retire in luxury. There goes that plan! BAHAHAAHahahaaha!!

They got walloped in 3 places:
1)Stock market drop (401k)
2)Currency devaluation (USD)
3)House values

Now try to invest in something safe like CDs and get less than 4% which is less than inflation!

Matt said...

you're right, that is a stupid question.

Anonymous said...

who will take the brunt of it?

1. taxpayers
2. anyone with cash (elderly)--inflation is the way this govt. will bail out the whole mess--especially national debt.

who will benefit?

the scoundrels. as Edmund Burke said: the credulity of the dupes is as inexhaustible as the invention of the knaves.

devestment said...

Everyone except the elite rich.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Over 40. I saw quite a few young people buying at the peak on joke loans but it was still mostly the boomers.

Social security is a non-issue here because it's going away regardless of the crash. It has to; it cannot sustain long-term no matter what.

Anonymous said...

People under 40
- more likely to have bought their first house during the housing bubble

People over 40
- more likely to have bought their house before the housing bubble

christiangustafson said...

Initially, the Boomers take the first torpedoes.

Bye bye, home equity. See ya, stock portfolio. Nice to know ya, pension fund. Hate to see you go, investment house (n+1). By now, nothing's safe, muni bonds are failing and even government is cutting back.

Just like a bear stock market, there will be bounces and consolidation in the political world on the way down.

Slowly, bit by bit, a coalition of terminal debtors, the fiscally irresponsible, compulsive consumers, starving REIC surplus humanity, government parasites, and penniless washed-up Boomers will emerge.

They will see the wealth we have scraped together, our savings, our 401Ks, our long-term planning and prudence ... as theirs to loot.

So we and our kids (I have #2 due in 7 weeks!) get the shaft at that point. A savage class and generational war ensues.

If we lose, then it's time to get off the grid and drop out entirely. Move to the eastern Cascades, raise a serious garden and a few pigs, home school the youngsters in calculus and Austrian economics, make your own butter.

We'll just have to wait it out until the last Mouseketeer has left this mortal coil and it's safe to build a civilization once again.

Anonymous said...

Over 40 because they won't have the time to recover their losses

bostongrrl said...

I think the 40 y.o. are gonna get screwed. :)

Anonymous said...

Under 40 will lose their homes

Over 40 will lose their investments

Both are screwed

Anonymous said...

Europeans are doomed.

big n rich said...

The people over 40 sold to the fools under 40.there is a sucker crowd every generation.

Arlene said...

Anyone who has never heard the old calculation on housing expenses -- that should be about 2.5 times your income for a sustainable deal.

I fear this is more likely to be people under 40 because obviously bankers aren't doing the math on this one anymore. Plus, people under 40 are more likely to crave space for young children to play.

However, plenty of over-40s get all weak-minded around granite countertops and have been telling themselves that the house is the "retirement fund" and thus a "good investment."

On reflection, I'd say it's a draw.

Lost Cause said...

As usual, people with nothing will get screwed the hardest. Families with young children will get the boot in the face, since they make up the poverty demographic.

Family values? Just another image to dream about, like the other one of a decent Christian. No connection whatsoever with reality.

Anonymous said...

Everyone

Anonymous said...

Short term...Obviously people of all ages are gettin hosed out there, but i think the under 40 will get the worst of it. Why?

Our entire economic thinking is to have now, pay later, and trust me...the boomers will have everything they whine about, and guess who will pick up the tab for that?

In sheer numbers though, most over 40 already had purchased a house, so they didnt get caught up in this mess, and if they did, it wasn't too bad.

That said, i know some boomers who drank the kool-aid big time and sold their house, cashed in the 401k and dumped it all into a mansion that is their "retirement". i am not sure how that will turn out...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

People Under 40, because they are the "must have it all now" group.


Thats really weird that you say that.... a big group of 60 year old boomers and a group of 30 year olds were talking at a party i went to a while back, and both parties came to the conclusion that using average wage during the relevant time periods, today is much harder money wise to be starting a family than it was 30-40 years ago, and that the 30 year olds of today have it much HARDER than the boomers did at the same time, that the 30 year olds of today live much more meager lives.

I guess its all perspective though...

Anonymous said...

People under 40 always get screwed by the evil and selfish Baby Boomers, such as Steve Forbes and Bill O'Reilly.

Anonymous said...

Silly question. Why are you so hung up on young vs. old? GenX/Y vs. Boomers?

Ladies & gentlemen, ED is one of the evil Baby Boomers, so dismiss anything he posts here. Just ignore this Fascist freak.

Anonymous said...

People under 4. Who will inherit this mess.

Lady Di said...

People over 40. There is less time to recover before retirement.

Anonymous said...

Direct impact >40

In Canada in the last 5 years, 75% of the debt was taken by people over 45.

Most Boomers' wealth is in their home and they've been counting on it to retire.

Indirect impact <40

In the last 5 years, under 40's net worth has barely budged. Many can just walk away.

They'll be paying higher taxres to fund the Boomers retirement and they won't inherit very much because the money will be all gone.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

My take on this GenX/GenY vs. Boomers thing is that they both suck.

However, in my experience anyway, having lived in the southwest where the bubble was the biggest, nearly all of the loudmouths in Tommy Bahama shirts, running their mouths and bullsh*tting everyone about all their money, while in real life they were buried in mortgage debt, were on average around 50 years old.

In the under-40 crowd, I think there was less of this simply because they weren't aware they could get approved for joke loans and "buy" big houses. I personally don't know anyone under 40, with only two exceptions, who bought a big house on liar's loan. I can think of tons of examples over 40 though.

Even if they're both as guilty, the under-40 crowd will still do better in the end because they have plenty of time to adapt to the new economy, make corrections, become entrepreneurs, take risks without a wife and kids hanging over your head, etc etc., unlike the over-40 crowd who typically cannot take risks due to wife, kids, alimony payments, etc., and who are scrambling to save whatever bit of retirement funds they have left.

Anonymous said...

christiangustafson said...
If we lose, then it's time to get off the grid and drop out entirely. Move to the eastern Cascades, raise a serious garden and a few pigs, home school the youngsters in calculus and Austrian economics, make your own butter.

"Atlas Shrugged" was a novel.

Anonymous said...

Under 40 is hosed, just look at me.

1. "wall street" trader
2. Has to pay $1mil just for a 900sq box in manhattan
3. Still has to pay $2k a month in maint + tax
4. We all know CPI is a joke
5. Whats left to invest?

Thus I rent......as rates come off on the 30yr, especially when the Jumbo limit is raised, people will be able to afford more, but at the same time prices will continue to fade.

Isnt NYC fun? NOT

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Silly question. Why are you so hung up on young vs. old? GenX/Y vs. Boomers?

Ladies & gentlemen, ED is one of the evil Baby Boomers, so dismiss anything he posts here. Just ignore this Fascist freak.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) -
–noun Fascist
1. a person who believes in or sympathizes with fascism.
2. (often initial capital letter) a member of a fascist movement or party.
3. a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views.
–adjective

Perhaps you should look up the names that you call people. I haven't seen anything Ed has written about that fits this word.

Didn't they teach you about dictionary.com when you were copy/pasting your term papers from the Web? Your definitions are listed below, and they do fit you.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) -
–adjective Ignorant
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

ar·ro·gant
1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.

Do your homework before you call people names little boy.

Anonymous said...

A over 40. They were banking on their home being an extra retirement plan. No such luck for many. Also Soc Sec will be shredded soon.

Anonymous said...

Hard times are always tougher on older people since they won't be able to find jobs and others live on fixed income. We could always push the reset button and wipe out all the debt Brazilian style.

TM said...

Both.

TM said...

Both.

Anonymous said...

no matter what age you are.if you don't have kids young or old (grandparents) you can make it. folks with kids are going to have a rough time. $5.00 gal. milk ect.

Anonymous said...

I would think people under 40 are more vulnerable.

If you think about it, you tend to be a bit more aggressive when it comes to investing, investing in real estate is one of them, than the over 40 croud.

Generally, the older you get, the less risk you take. Therefore, I think most people affected by this mess will be people under 40, who thought that they would become the next Donald.

Danny

Anonymous said...

The reason the under 40 crowd is going to suffer is because the people who remember the depression days are almost all gone and the practices of the 1920s that made that generation learn the hard way was forgotten over the past decade or so.
The young bought into the creative financing, seminars on how to be rich in real estate and "flip that house". Buying stocks on MARGIN once again. People who have no money at all, yet they are rich on paper because they have a McMansion that says so and credit.
This is why we are going to suffer. The old are on their way out. The young are going to suffer big time.

Anonymous said...

SS will run out before the boomers retire. It was designed as a feel-good ponzi scheme that required 6 workers for each retiree. We are currently at 3:1 and falling. The next generation of workers will be low wage illegal immigrants and Asians who use the black market cash economy to avoid taxes. Boomers are screwed. The younger educated people can alway sflee to South America or Europe, which are starving for educated workers.

Anonymous said...

Great blog Keith - I just love it....but this is really "filler", don't ya think?

anon666 said...

Under 40!! They grew up in the era of funny money, credit/debt=wealth. The Geritol crowd still gets to reap the remaining benefits of this funny money. The 'Shell Games' now being played by the money institutions can only last for a few more years (bailing each other out with funny money)and then it will end badly. This, I believe, will have a greater impact on the younger generations.

As for me, I'm in the tweener zone, born in the last year as being defined a Baby Boomer and I have my financial house in order.

Westparker said...

devestment said...
Everyone except the elite rich

Couldn't have said it better myself.

My first gut reaction was the over 40 group since they have less time to recover from their ignorance. On second thought, sheeple are sheeple and most have no idea how to make money or preserve wealth. I can't count how many times I've heard "CalPers is going to pay me 80% of my highest salary when I retire", but when you ask how Calpers is going to do it, they have no idea...

Keith, this would make an interesting discussion

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080217/news_1h17sichelm

Anonymous said...

over 40 because with house prices tanking as fast as they are the under 40's will probably find some good deals. the over 40's because they wanted to move up and away, downsize, move closer to family during the high price craze. no one thought it was going to end when they bought years ago. glad i stayed were i am. no equity, no buying, loan increasing to astronomical numbers, bad scene. good luck out there.

Anonymous said...

The over 40 people because the do not have has much time to make up for housing and stock loss.

Anonymous said...

under 40

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Over 40 because they're running out of time and the boomers represent the majority of liar's loan buyers.

Under 40 because they're stupid and gullible enough to vote for Obama.

Both are f*cked.

Anonymous said...

To Ed:

You are an imbecile.

Makes sense.....

Ed is a weeny said...

To Anonymous Ed supporter:

Wow, you really are a pathetic arrogant weeny dorky nerd.
(please see Webster's definitions)

You and Ed got something goin' on?(wink wink)

Oh and as far as the topic:

Anyone named Ed is screwed......

Anonymous said...

I agree with Ed. You beg this issue alot Keith. It stirs up the "Why should the next generation support future entitlements such as Social Security" debate in which I believe you to be at complete odds with Obama. What is your position on that topic?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Ed is a weeny said...

To Anonymous Ed supporter:

Wow, you really are a pathetic arrogant weeny dorky nerd.
(please see Webster's definitions)

You and Ed got something goin' on?(wink wink)

Oh and as far as the topic:

Anyone named Ed is screwed......

Didn't your mama ever whip your ass with a wooden spoon?

Ed said...

"Anonymous said...

Silly question. Why are you so hung up on young vs. old? GenX/Y vs. Boomers?

Ladies & gentlemen, ED is one of the evil Baby Boomers, so dismiss anything he posts here. Just ignore this Fascist freak.

February 23, 2008 10:47 PM"

Wow you are a true imbecile as I am in my early 30s dumbass. And learn what the word fascist means. You make yourself sound truly moronic when throwing that word around the way you do.

Ed said...

10:20 and 10:30 anon

Guess I really hit a nerve huh? Prolly have some daddy issues. Aww what's wrong, meanine boomer daddy didn't love you enough?

Anonymous said...

Under 40 for sure.

People who have been around since 1967 were just kids when the Vietnam war was going on. They did see a short lived Gulf War 1 followed by prosperity while 911 was followed by a car/house sales bonanza.

When this whole credit scheme of things and living beyond your means paradigm ends their world will shatter. People over 40 for the most part have a path they will be on until they die in terms of what they plan to be doing. People under 40 are still in a transition phase and will feel like the world is coming to an end if they can't have a McMansion or a leased luxury car.

the guru said...

So -

You wonderful kiddies here want to yank social security, and what, spit on your parents as they starve?

What a quality group you are! Praise the Lord! Jesus was like that, right? Selfish and hateful to the core? Self-pitying? A righteous crybaby.

Your carping complaining will set a good example for the little sperm-wads you're raising. I bet they do the same thing to YOU when they grow up and become just like you. Yes, they are emulating your toxic selfishness. Count on it.

But guess what, YOU WILL WORK YOUR ASSES OFF to pay social security to your parents and grandparents. Book it!

But the next generation will indeed take your whining to heart and refuse SS to YOU! Ha Ha Ha!

the Guru speaks :)

Anonymous said...

A or B?

I say YES!

Anonymous said...

no more college loans? how will they become 200,000- in debt doctors who need to kiss the drug companys butts and the insurance companys while driving health care ans insurance costs sky high and higher until you need the insurance and care and then higher again till you capitulate and stop spending on it, or in mass. lose you home to taxations on it to pay health ins. cos.

Anonymous said...

The question really addresses the Standard of Living today versus the 60's. If anybody thinks the standard of living is higher now than the 60's then study it yourself. It's real simple. If wages don't keep up with inflation then the standard of living goes down. Well, since 1971 we have had economic challenged leaders and we are beginning to see the fruits of their bad decisions. The 90's were our best and last chance to get it right. We almost did it with a combination of luck and true conservatives in office(Newt Gingrinch)along with a economic and a politically astute President(Clinton)along with a once in a lifetime mega technological boom. Just stating the facts.

Back to today and unfortunately reality. Our Government deficits and the Federal Reserve using their printing press has devalued the dollar so thoroughly that Gas is now $3.00 a gallon, national housing wealth which took 225 years
to hit 10 trillion worth in 2002 was inflated(dollar devaluation) to 20 trillion worth in just 5 years thanks to our friendly bankers at the Federal Reserve, this will fall to at least 15 trillion, we've just begun the pain. Devaluing the dollar/a.k.a. inflation has caused food prices to soar, our medicines cost 3 times what the rest of the world spends, how about global trade you pharmaceutical vipers, housing costs are a joke, the over sized governments are a joke(property tax), new cars $30,000 plus, strippers charging more, and etc.

In the 60's housing costs were on avg. 1/5 what they are now and yes wages in the 60's were much higher relatively speaking(buying power). A dollar then bought much more then than the same dollar today and the person today has less buying power than the person in the 60's because he earns less dollars relatively.

Simply put we are screwed. We have no leadership that understands Economics. A post-modern service economy is another phrase for a Joke Economy. Never in history has their even been attempted a Service Economy. All service jobs revolve around manufacturing jobs. Also manufacturing jobs in the United States paid historically well in comparison to service jobs in our economy and especially the world. Those jobs have mainly been given away to other countries by our cowards in office and their intellectual bitches who can't add 2+2. The Middle Class is in a downward spiral and with it the status of Greatest Country. There has never been a thriving economy without a thriving middle class. Look at China. We are paying their middle class while we destroy ours. There country is booming. This is a communist country that has an illegal currency. This is insane. Our leaders have no brains or balls. They will beat up countries with practically no military a.k.a. Iraq, spend 2 trillion, good buy Social Security, however, when it comes to big boys(Atheist China), who are using us(make no mistake, have you heard that idiotic phrase before, they are laughing at us) our leaders are cowards. We are financing their economic middle class boom while we are going broke. This is the definition of insanity. God help us.