January 23, 2008

Looks like the 3/4 point cut ain't gonna do the trick.


If I would have told you a year ago that the Fed dropped the rate 3/4 of a point in one day, first time in 20 years something like that happened, and the stock market had STILL dropped, you probably would have figured:

1) That the president got shot
2) That a massive natural disaster had hit
3) That a dirty bomb had gone off in a major city
4) That the stock market had crashed 50%

Right?

In the end, this 3/4 point cut will be followed up by many more. Bernanke will end up taking rates below the rate of inflation, and we're probably already there today. It's amazing that a 3/4 point cut hit and stocks STILL dropped. That should show you the extent of the mess we're now in.

Another fun day in the markets today. Especially those of you with your stash in nice safe places, who saw all of this coming.

95 comments:

Anonymous said...

How about another 3/4 basis point cut, Keith? What's about to happen, or what's happening now, is unprecedented (in US history, anyway). Hyperinflation. Coming to a store near you.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22798008

'More rate cuts are expected for the Fed meeting at the end of the month, but there is no consensus yet as to how much the rates will fall.

"As the Fed have now taken to cutting rates in 75 basis points chunks, that indicates that at a minimum, we ought to expect a further 75 basis points of easing," Rob Carnell, ING Bank analyst, wrote in a market note. '

decaffeinated said...

.
.
.
Keith said:

Bernanke will end up taking rates below the rate of inflation, and we're probably already there today.


Umm, you're behind the curve, Keith. From itulip.com:

Where is the Fed now? If you believe the CPI numbers, the Fed is already running a zero real Fed Funds rate as this chart shows from the St. Louis Fed’s latest report updated Jan. 20, 2008.

Chart is
here


Note that above comment and chart were published before yesterday's rate cut.

Complete itulip article here.

Anonymous said...

Don't blame Greenspan.

Blame GHW BUSH for lying us into WAR.
Its the war debt, think WIEMAR!
Greenspan dropped rates to lowest level in June 2003 after we invaded IRAQ.

keith said...

You know, it's too bad we didn't have competent central bankers a few years ago would would have RAISED rates 3/4 point at a time, vs. the 1/4's we got

That might have prevented this disaster. But no, we had Greenspan in charge, a traitor to the American people and the worst central banker of all time

keith said...

Oh, and someone show me where in the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 it gives them responsibility to prevent stock market declines.

Hint - it's not there. This is a new one that Bernanke pulled out of his corrupt ass, likely at the urging of Goldman Sachs' Paulson.

There should be a congressional investigation of the Fed, and Bernanke should be asked to resign, or be forced out.

Federal Reserve Act

The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Market Committee shall maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the economy's long run potential to increase production, so as to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates.

Anonymous said...

And PPT to the rescue again today.

Anonymous said...

Again we are disincentivizing savings with rates this low and incentivizing going into debt and spending. All brick & mortar banks are already offering savers money losing savings rates relative to inflation. Internet banks' savings rates are in the 4-5% which after factoring in taxes barely keeps up with inflation. Now even they will cut their rates to the point that you will lose money as the Fed simultaneously stoke inflation. The reaction will be the same as last time, people will look for higher yield and assume unrealistic risk to do it, i.e. the next MBS/CDO/SIV fiasco. Hopefully people took out some mid term fixed rate savings products to at least keep up with inflation, but not from banks like countryslide & Indymac of course.

Anonymous said...

Keith, He's actually violated the act then because his move has destablized prices in the form of stoking inflation!!!

Anonymous said...

yeh, the new mantra is now they think the ecb should lower its rates too in our global economy and that it is a priced in conclusion that the fed is going to lower another 1/2 to 3/4 at the fed meeting later on this month.

David said...

Bring in those newly built helicopters paid for with deficit spending!

Anonymous said...

I don't like the idea of being sacrificed on the Altar of the DOW. What is this all for? I'm the really screwed guy, you know, retired in 2003, fixed income, money in CD's. Yep, that's me. Own my home? Yes, but most likely I will have to leave it to my sons who would be homeless without it. ((They work too! College Too! but can't get employed enough to be independent) The neighborhood suffered from the great run for bucks. A lot of old people turned over for the cash and bought elsewhere, and most were not very happy with the move. Some went to Florida, only to return and instead of having money they ended up buying another property that was now overpriced and owed money again when they could have lived in the same house they were in and had money. Others went to retirement communities only to discover they had to constantly pay for an insulated existence and ever rising fees. Some places are now chasing out the original over 55 buyers with the fees because it has been 10 or more years and the fixed income of 10 years ago cannot keep up. So this is a scam also.
Soon there will be nowhere left to turn. What is next? Bird Flu to rid us of the baby boomer generation? Thanks a lot America!
All for the rich! Thanks a lot you betrayer!

Buzz Saw said...

Futures down, I hear helicopters.

economicmess said...

"Right?"

No, the writing has been on the wall and normal paint hasn't been able to cover it up!

As they say: "american companys are 'hollowed out shells of debt'."

i.e. There's no reason for executives-- of the next generation, to work for companies which are 6 feet under in debt and pension obligations;

i.e. I can't conceive how companies with today's obligations will survive since it's easier to start over again with a clean slate.

i.e. Companies have issued so much stock that stock sales won't help troubled companies any more-- i.e. the "law of large numbers" suggests that exponentially more stock would have to be issued to be meaningful and that would destroy profit per share.

and, if companies can't acquire capitol through stock, they'd have to borrow money but, unfortunately, their applications would be refused by bankers since their assets were previously used to acquire big loans that won't be paid back.

it will be interesting to see how we get out of this "economic quagmire!"

Anonymous said...

What a dark period, only negativity wins now. Shorts, flips, lies.

God Help us all

swamprat said...

He has already taken the rate below inflation.

Anonymous said...

To quote stockbroker and real estate broker friends of mine who yelled in my face:

"I make more money in one day than you can all year!"

How's it lookin now, suckers!

lol

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Again we are disincentivizing savings with rates this low and incentivizing going into debt and spending. All brick & mortar banks are already offering savers money losing savings rates relative to inflation. Internet banks' savings rates are in the 4-5% which after factoring in taxes barely keeps up with inflation. Now even they will cut their rates to the point that you will lose money as the Fed simultaneously stoke inflation. The reaction will be the same as last time, people will look for higher yield and assume unrealistic risk to do it, i.e. the next MBS/CDO/SIV fiasco. Hopefully people took out some mid term fixed rate savings products to at least keep up with inflation, but not from banks like countryslide & Indymac of course.

January 23, 2008 2:08 PM

The LA Time's confirms your analysis/conclusion:

http://tinyurl.com/2k9hob

Anonymous said...

What is this lie "if we enter a recession" My god we have been in a recession for over 3 months.

Ron Paul will be right again, this is the end of the FED. My money is on Bernanake resigning.

Bush lies, 935 lies about Iraq.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080123/ap_on_go_pr_wh/misinformation_study

borkafatty said...

Keith its killing me, and I know deep down inside it's wrong and very rude!.....BUT!!!!

HAHAH! TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!SUCKERS!...wheres my Tin Foil Hat?

3rd Generation said...

Game, Set, Match. America loses.

Joe Six-Pack: Fill up the Dodge and head for the hills. THey are coming for you soon...

tick, tick, tick, Ka BOOOM!

Anonymous said...

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivp4YqGCI-s
housing bubble song

Anonymous said...

Rate cut means little in the short term. It does nothing to defuse the threat posed by further downgrades of Ambac and MBIA. Markets are tanking on fear of a banking collapse as defaults on CDS positions knock banks over like dominoes. Direct action to prop up the bond insurers is/was needed to prevent this. The government has no business trying to prop up wall street, which may tank no matter what they do. But they (and we) damned sure do have an interest in preventing a collapse of the banking system. You bubble sitters and bitter renters, where exactly are your CDs parked, hmmm? Think about it. If the system collapse then perversely savers will be screwed, whereas spender/debtors will at least still have the swag they bought, and are OK as long as they can service the debt.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

To quote stockbroker and real estate broker friends of mine who yelled in my face:

"I make more money in one day than you can all year!"

How's it lookin now, suckers!

lol

January 23, 2008 2:56 PM

-----

brokers make money on transactions...on days like yesterday transactions go through the roof as volume soars

your friend probably made more by lunch than you will make all year

Anonymous said...

105 yen to the dollar - man, that is not good, at least for the dollar. Benny can keep cutting rates all he wants, but inflation will tank any positive outcome (if there was ever one to begin with).

Anonymous said...

Goldman Sachs predicts rates at 2.5% the same prediction that TV madman Jim Cramer made just a day earlier.

Didnt Cramer shill for Goldman Sachs at one time? I guess we know now where he gets his influence and stock picks--good ol Goldman Sucks.

Anonymous said...

wahhhh wahhhhh wahhhhh

Bernanke slahed my savings account rates

waaaahhh wahhhhh wahhhh

you dipshits couldn't care less about the economy or anyone's well being. it's all about me, me, me.

Nitnoid said...

At least in principle, HP favorite Roubini supports the rate-lowering actions of Fed yesterday, saying they had no choice but to act in the face of a crushing market crash. The Fed needs some impending disaster to act, and if yesterday wasn't it, then I don't know what is! Whether the effectss will last more than a few days, we'll see.

But if you think a Dow crash is NOT a bad thing for the economy, with a "decrease in production" that results in panic, avalanching corporate BK, widespread layoffs, etc, then I don't know what to tell you!

Honest Abe said...

You know, it's too bad we didn't have competent central bankers a few years ago would would have RAISED rates 3/4 point at a time, vs. the 1/4's we got

That might have prevented this disaster. But no, we had Greenspan in charge, a traitor to the American people and the worst central banker of all time

January 23, 2008 1:48 PM

Europe is based on a central banking system. The USA had a credit system where the sovereign right to issue credit resided with government.

Keith, you've been kissing the Queen's arse for too long. The USA is not the British Empire.

Say hello to Michael Bloomberg, I hear he owns a beautiful London flat where he runs his operation from. Could he be the next British Mussolini?

God save the USA and dump the Queen.

Anonymous said...

Everyday the Dow drops, they should cut the rate. Can they have a negative Fed rate??

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I don't like the idea of being sacrificed on the Altar of the DOW. What is this all for? I'm the really screwed guy, you know, retired in 2003, fixed income, money in CD's. Yep, that's me. Own my home? Yes, but most likely I will have to leave it to my sons who would be homeless without it. ((They work too! College Too! but can't get employed enough to be independent) The neighborhood suffered from the great run for bucks. A lot of old people turned over for the cash and bought elsewhere, and most were not very happy with the move. Some went to Florida, only to return and instead of having money they ended up buying another property that was now overpriced and owed money again when they could have lived in the same house they were in and had money. Others went to retirement communities only to discover they had to constantly pay for an insulated existence and ever rising fees. Some places are now chasing out the original over 55 buyers with the fees because it has been 10 or more years and the fixed income of 10 years ago cannot keep up. So this is a scam also.
Soon there will be nowhere left to turn. What is next? Bird Flu to rid us of the baby boomer generation? Thanks a lot America!
All for the rich! Thanks a lot you betrayer!

January 23, 2008 2:27 PM


Dont throw in the towel just yet. America has faced ruin before and somehow, each time, we were able to find our better angels and rise to the challenge.

I can relate to what your sons are going through. If I could, I would return my college diploma and file suit. It is pretty stupid to pay all that cash for a college education and then be sent out into a jobless economy.

And this isnt a recent phenomenon. The United States has been in decline/collapse since RMN removed us from the Bretton Woods Monetary System of FDR.

Anonymous said...

At least we won't hear from Dopes as often...

Andrew Hac said...

It does not matter how many God-Almighty point the Fed under "Little Boy" + "Fat Man" had cut, cut, or will cut, the U.S of Americano economy is tanked, roasted like a snapper turtle. Why ? Because the Americano is irresponsible, greedy, materialistic, immoral, ignorant, pompous, hoity-toity, self-righteous, and animalistic sometime.

So, has the Americano found the WMD in Iraq yet ?

Anonymous said...

http://tinyurl.com/2k9hob

For many Americans, the effects of the Federal Reserve's aggressive rate cut will be swift and striking. The average borrower could save hundreds of dollars within a few months -- and the average saver could lose just as much.

Mf@ckers! I'm a good saver and they do everything to turn me into a borrower. It's so screwed. I've been saving for years and now I watch how my savings are eaten alive by the inflation.
F@ck them! I prefer to loose money on my savings and be free than borrow the money and loose my freedom.

Anonymous said...

>> There should be a congressional investigation of the Fed...

And a full audit of its books - for every year, going back to 1913.

ICallBS said...

anonymous January 23, 2008 2:56 PM:
"To quote stockbroker and real estate broker friends of mine who yelled in my face:

"I make more money in one day than you can all year!""

So why are they your friends? Are you into S/M or something? Why would you put yourself with people who obviously do not like or respect you?

Buzz Saw said...

Keith, The equation is simple, I'm surprised you haven't realized it. The fed can:

A) Try to save the dollar, and fail miserably.

B) Throw the dollar under the bus and save their Wall Street buddies.

Given that choice, what do you think they will do?

Anonymous said...

Next shoe to drop:

MASSIVE UNEMPLOYMENT

Anonymous said...

Ichabod Crane!

Ron said...

Well can't wait to get my Amero! Who do you think will be on the first Amero GWB?

Max said...

ECB just announced it won't ease, citing inflation pressures.

I would be glad to hear a response from euro-bashers here.

Anonymous said...

I'm a regular guy with not alot of money. I'm seeing my life being eroded by these awgul decisions made by Bush/Fed. I used to enjoy reading these blogs but its not theory anymore. It's reality. The same money I make doesn't get me as far as it ded just a few years ago. Now savings will be 1 percent interest(weren't we just there?). Stocks seem like a dirivitives game adn housing is like a falling knife. All the anchors for a solid middle class are being cut.

Anonymous said...

Looks like all the Fed did was delay the crash by a day

bickerer said...

Isn't it a riot that Citi, Countrywide and Fannie, the companies that caused this debacle, are all up today while the rest of the market tanks.

Mr. Market has a sick sense of humor.

keith said...

I just took a stroll around the markets and it's amazing what I saw

Red everywhere. Stocks like AAPL and GOOG in a bloodbath. The alt energy plays getting halved. Foreign funds destroyed. Even the commodities getting slaughtered. Yes, there is blood in the street today, that's why the 30-stock Dow is so misleading.

5% never felt better. But traders are making a mint today if they had the guts to stay short.

I don't. Being on the beach during this craziness feels good. Longs and shorts are just gambling now and I don't like gambling.

How are your portfolios holding up? Anyone tempted to go out and catch falling knives?

Chubbs said...

I got a newbie question. I don't get too involved in the market but I do have some IRA's in mutual funds. Mostly with T.Rowe Price. What would be the best strategy for me going forward. Would it actually be better to take that money out and pay the tax penalty? Again, sorry to ask such a pedestrian question, but would like to get some advice.

DaveO said...

wahhhh wahhhhh wahhhhh

Bernanke slahed my savings account rates

waaaahhh wahhhhh wahhhh

you dipshits couldn't care less about the economy or anyone's well being. it's all about me, me, me.


Listen, asshole, having a society where people save money and only buy things that they can afford makes for a STABLE economy, which is good for EVERYONE's well being in the LONG TERM. Why the hell should we encourage financially irresponsible behavior, which hurts the economy in the LONG TERM, just to save irresponsible dimwits in the short term? I care about the economy in THE LONG TERM! And you think we're the greedy ones? It sounds like all you care about is band-aid solutions for those that should have known better and got way in over their head, which do nothing to create a good, stable economy for future generations to come.

The sooner we clean up this horrible mess, by letting bubbles (which are unsustainable ipso facto) burst quickly, the sooner we can have a good long-term economy.

Which would you rather encourage, a positive savings rate or a negative savings rate?

Anonymous said...

Where's that idiot who was bragging here yesterday that he had bought at market opening and how he was the big sh!t, and blah, blah, blah?

How's your haircut going, financial genius?

And tomorrow the market will nosedive again. Sell it now.

Anonymous said...

Red everywhere. Stocks like AAPL

No wonder, with a P/E of 40 and a pathetic MacWorld.

Batman said...

The nastiest part is that this is the year boomers start cashing out. Holy fcuk man, those oldtimers who got us in this mess are going to be pissed to find the piggy bank is empty.

Bad timing dude. Maybe they'll keep retiring to AZ - the houses will be cheap soon enough...

Anonymous said...

"Can they have a negative Fed rate??"

Sure why not. There was a negative rate in Switzerland in the 1970s. You had to pay the bank interest for keeping your money in the bank.

Anonymous said...

THEY ALREADY HAVE A NEGATIVE FED RATE

Anonymous said...

chubbs you're already down 20-25% from peak. if you sell now, you'll be down 35% with the 10% tax penalty.

you should have asked this question 6 months ago. selling now is as bad as not selling then. i'd say just let it stay where it is

Anonymous said...

Great talk about the housing crisis and the resulting financial disaster:

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=ojdrIC9K94E&feature=related

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that gold has been going down pretty consistently, even yesterday's big rate cut didn't do al that much. I wonder if it's time to dump GLD and let it sit in cash.

Anonymous said...

Keith just yesterday you were predicting financial armageddon. Now that hasn't happened and you have egg all over your face.

Anonymous said...

> How are your portfolios
> holding up? Anyone tempted
> to go out and catch
> falling knives?

My portfolio is getting hammered, and I am holding so-called safe-havens like gold and silver. My mining stocks are getting in the worst. The only green stock in my portfolio today is FXF (Swiss Franc ETF).

The market can't decide whether we're experiencing inflation or deflation (or both), people are just selling everything and there are no buyers.

Anonymous said...

Gotta love this CNBC. They refer to "the bears", as if this mess was caused by bears. Why don't they bust the balls of the real culprits such as Mozillo, Bush, Greenspan, Paulson, and company?

They also brought that disgusting and overrated senile Jack Welch to vomit his crap all morning. Yes, overrated, no matter what you cheerleaders say!

Anonymous said...

Right about now, I would start buying the dips on the oil market. It's just a matter of time before it's $150.00 per barrel. Also, gold is looking like it's set for the Moon, as "Gentle Ben" lops yet another 75 basis points off the primary rate. I would also recommend investing in bicycle manufacturer stocks, buying a good set of solar panels, and taking up gardening.

Tangelo Mozilo said...

Chubbs said . . .

"I got a newbie question. I don't get too involved in the market but I do have some IRA's in mutual funds. Mostly with T.Rowe Price. What would be the best strategy for me going forward. Would it actually be better to take that money out and pay the tax penalty? Again, sorry to ask such a pedestrian question, but would like to get some advice."
------------------

I think you mean that you have some mutual funds in IRAs. Your IRA is the investment vehicle, and these mutual funds are your chosen investments within those vehicles.

If you are unhappy with your current mutual funds, or are afraid that they will tank along with the rest of the stock market, then by all means, sell your mutual funds and buy something else with the money, STILL KEEPING THAT MONEY IN YOUR IRAs! You will not incur any taxes if you sell the mutual funds because they are sheltered in your IRAs (but you will still incur any applicable brokerage fees). So, keeping in mind that you want to limit your brokerage fees, you can buy and sell investments rather freely within an IRA without having to worry about tax consequences. However, beware the evils of frequent trading, and avoid the common pitfalls of selling low and buying high.

There are plenty of ways to insulate yourself from the U.S. stock market while still keeping your money in your IRAs. For instance, you could sell your funds and put the money into CDs or foreign equities, or precious metal ETFs, or simply keep it in cash. You don't have to empty your IRAs to do any of these things.

If you take the money out of your IRAs, on the other hand, you will incur a HUGE penalty, plus the money that you are left with will no longer be tax-sheltered so any new growth on that money will be taxable. Never ever withdraw money from your IRA before retirement, unless you absolutely have to.

Chubbs, might I suggest you read "Investing for Dummies?" Despite its condescending name, it is actually a very good (and realistic) survey course in individual investment. After you read this book, I guarantee you will be able to make your investment decisions with more confidence, and will be better able to manage your money than 95% of anyone else out there.

Tor said...

To Chubbs

What specifically do you mean by "take money out"? If you just want to switch from one investment to another (say from a stock fund to a commodity or money market fund) then you can do this while retaining the IRA status (no penalty tax). In fact this is one of the main points of an IRA account.

If your new investment is with some other firm then there may be some paperwork involved to transfer the money.

Chubbs said...

Thanks, anon. I'll just leave it in. Unfortunately for me, I didn't find this blog until last week. lol

k.w. - southern, ca. said...

4 words ... everything will now collapse.

corvinus said...

Just as I predicted.

And the ECB just refused to cut their own interest rates. Eurotrash stocks are gonna get KILLED.

ICallBS said...

batman:
"The nastiest part is that this is the year boomers start cashing out. Holy fcuk man, those oldtimers who got us in this mess are going to be pissed to find the piggy bank is empty."

That conflicts with the oft-quoted figure of around 50K average retirement savings per boomer, the fact that most boomers' net worth is in their homes, and that more than half the boomers plan to work until they die.

In other words, boomers are broke. They've got nothing to pull out of the market to crash it. Some of them pulled out 401(k) funds to play the me-too housing market. That generation is made up mostly of communist-minded types who can't think for themselves. They've spent their lives trying to figure out how The Joneses do it without realizing The Joneses never did.

Anonymous said...

Batman said

The nastiest part is that this is the year boomers start cashing out. Holy fcuk man, those oldtimers who got us in this mess are going to be pissed to find the piggy bank is empty.

Yeah the old timer is Woodrow Wilson, 1913

Ed said...

the bottom was yesterday at the open.

well the short term bottom anyway. who the fuck knows what will happen when hitlery takes office a year from now.

Chubbs said...

Tangelo Mozilo, and Tor, Thanks.

I didn't think about that. I won't plan on taking the money out of the IRA. Besides other funds or CD's, what other type of investment can be made and still be an IRA?

As for that book, I'll have to pick that up. I certainly could use some help. I thought I knew enough but this current "crisis" has shown me that I was woefully lacking in what I thought I knew. lol

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

eric in vegas said...

"isn't it a riot that Citi, Countrywide and Fannie, the companies that caused this debacle, are all up today while the rest of the market tanks."

On CNBC one of the cheerleaders was saying that everyone thinks they're hitting bottom. LOL

Nice save by the PPT btw.

Anonymous said...

Dow back up 2 consecutive days from 300-400 point drops - my ass.

The sh*t is fu*king fixed and I am taking my ball and going home. Fu*k you.

Oh, yeah, I already did that back a few months ago.

bleak said...

I’m no friend of the Fed and really enjoy the “helicopter” references. But there’s something that everyone should keep in mind…

The Fed dropping interest rates only works when the financial system works normally. That means banks have funds and lend money, consumers and industry are willing to borrow money.

When banks are strapped with bad loans and falling collateral values (read: falling house prices), they stop lending money. In fact, they start looking for new capital (read: our oil-exporting ‘friends’ and the Red Chinese). Banks don’t want to (or can’t—not enough capital) lend, consumers are probably too spooked to borrow.

We’re probably in that situation right now. The Fed is powerless.

The only ‘helicopter’ drops will occur with fiscal stimulus—when you wake up seeing hundreds on your lawn. Sound familiar? How about $800 in ‘rebates’ per taxpayer? Even then, we’re talking about p!ss!ng on a raging forest fire.

Welcome to the Liquidity Trap. Welcome to Japan circa 1990. Enjoy your stay.

Anonymous said...

YES, THANK YOU....MATCHES MY OBSERVATION; THERE IS NO WAY THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT A RECESSION; ALL THE PROPS AND BEHAVIOR INDICATE THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT NOTHING LESS THAN A STRUCTURAL MELTDOWN OF THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM OR A DEPRESSION-
(CALL IT GREATER, SINCE IT'S GLOBAL).

I've never seen a government(s) show this kind of concern or attempt to forestall a recession, let alone throw these sums of money
at banks.Recessions are just lived through- some suffer and some don't but its nothing more than housecleaning usually...not a particularly big deal. This scale of effort was made available after 9/11, in an attempt to keep everything from going under. So-
reading between the lines I notice:

There is fear here, of something wickedly large.You can see it in
the stature of the groups gathering to announce tries at solutions:
Cabinet leaders, central bank heads, (European and American).


When what you know matches what you see, the light bulb goes on.....

They are fearing total collapse, of everything financial. We will laugh someday that we thought it was just about the roofs over our head.But probably not in the rest of my lifetime.

grandma pkk

Anonymous said...

They should just quit screwing around and cut to zero immediately.

I mean it worked out so well for Japan.

Seriously though just get it over with already.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Right about now, I would start buying the dips on the oil market. It's just a matter of time before it's $150.00 per barrel. Also, gold is looking like it's set for the Moon, as "Gentle Ben" lops yet another 75 basis points off the primary rate. I would also recommend investing in bicycle manufacturer stocks, buying a good set of solar panels, and taking up gardening.

January 23, 2008 6:29 PM

You guys show no concept of reality. Oil at $150 barrel. What do you think will happen to the economy with oil at these rates?

Everything with you is in the abstract---"lets see, if everyone in Europe were to die off from the black death then housing values would have to sink"... So I am going long in housing stocks".

SeattleMoose said...

Pushing on a string....

BubbleGirl said...

What is PPT?

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

wahhhh wahhhhh wahhhhh
Bernanke slahed my savings account rates
waaaahhh wahhhhh wahhhh

you dipshits couldn't care less about the economy or anyone's well being. it's all about me, me, me.


DaveO said...

Listen, asshole,

How do you know he is an asshole?

having a society where people save money and only buy things that they can afford makes for a STABLE economy, which is good for EVERYONE's well being in the LONG TERM.

He didn't say it wasn't. He just said you were selfish and self-absorbed.

Why the hell should we encourage financially irresponsible behavior, which hurts the economy in the LONG TERM, just to save irresponsible dimwits in the short term?

He didn't say this either.

I care about the economy in THE LONG TERM! And you think we're the greedy ones?

He didn't say you were greedy. He said you were selfish and self absorbed. The greedy part comes from you. Are you?

It sounds like all you care about is band-aid solutions for those that should have known better and got way in over their head.

He didn't talk about band-aids either. You made this up.

The sooner we clean up this horrible mess, by letting bubbles (which are unsustainable ipso facto) burst quickly, the sooner we can have a good long-term economy.

Neither you nor the HP'ers aregoing to clean up any messes. Too busy in here routing for the destruction of the country.

Which would you rather encourage, a positive savings rate or a negative savings rate?

Now you have changed the subject.

You are exactly what he said you are. Nothing more, nothing less. (You might be greedy too)

You are arguing with yourself. He just made a generic statement after reading the posts here. The blog used to be about good information from really smart people (usually under the general comment section at the top, which is now devoted to the "my dog is better than your dog party".

"We let Keith read the news of the day to us and then we feel smarter than those who didn't have Keith read them the "good parts".

Anonymous forgot to mention the "delusions of grandeur".

Jersey said...

3:30PM, 1-23-08

Goddamned PPT interfering with markets again! Short funds are screwed, but dollar dropping and gold up.

Anonymous said...

PPT, shameless, printing money to make the market positive.

It's all rigged!

gadfly said...

Keith,

I have just heard a market rumour that Mr Bernanke will soon leave the Fed to take up an appointment as the Finance Minister of ZIMBABWE. When asked why he would even consider going to such a basket case of a country he reportedly replied: My skills are in greater demand there.

Please let all those on this blog know if these rumours are fact or fiction.

Anonymous said...

about that crash.

DOPES!

3rd generation said...

"PPT, shameless, printing money to make the market positive.

It's all rigged!"

Totally Agree. The FIX is in.

WE ARE DOOMED

Anonymous said...

What is PPT? Anyone.

eric in vegas said...

"What is PPT? Anyone."

plunge protection team.

Anonymous said...

We can't clean up this mess till we elect Ron Paul for President and every seat in congress.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
We can't clean up this mess till we elect Ron Paul for President and every seat in congress.

January 24, 2008 12:20 AM

What mess, it sounds like you plan to wipe their ass. Good luck with that dirty job.

Anonymous said...

anon 8:40

post of the day

i've had it said...

the 3/4 cut will mean diddly squat. sure, it may make a difference in the short term with more volatility (ups and downs instead of just downs) for the stock market, but the structural rot in our mortgage and financial systems does not give a hoot about this cut. with the rot of subprime, option arms, alt-a's, declining house prices, etc. we are heading into a calamity.

Don't be fooled by all those polyanna talking heads on TV. They say upbeat things for two reasons: 1) to keep ad dollars flowing...if things do tank then there's less TV advertising, which means cancellation of their shows and loss of their jobs or lower pay, and 2) most of these people trade and they can help manipulate the market...when it goes low they buy and then they pontificate on TV that things are great and help push the market up and then sell. Such a scam...but entertaining if you can read thru their bullshit.

In short, cutting interest rates in this economic environment is like building a wall of sand to stop a tsunami.

Anonymous said...

Things have to change! Lets elect Bill Clinton again!

Anonymous said...

brokers make money on transactions...on days like yesterday transactions go through the roof as volume soars

your friend probably made more by lunch than you will make all year
---------------

You dont know anything about me or how Much money I make. So shut your trap PUTO

luv70smusik said...

Congress is going to increase Fanniemae limits from 417k to 800k as part of the $800 tax refund bill. Buy banks, they are getting off the hook. That's why they went to the moon today. It may not be right or fair, but if you want free money, here it is.

Anonymous said...

The Fed has saved the day the market was up 299. Apple (AAPL) price target $210 all is well. Time to but stocks, gold, bonds and houses.

We are saved!

WINGS said...

Bleak said:

Welcome to the Liquidity Trap. Welcome to Japan circa 1990. Enjoy your stay.
_____

Hey bleak, sounds like the Hotel California: you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. Ha, ha!

Hey Bleak, You enjoy your stay: We'll put you in a baby high-chair, with a bib on, and some Gerber Baby Mashed Tatos and let you throw them at the TV as CNN airs Ben Bernanke emergency economy speeches!

Ha, ha!

No, Bleak, we welcome YOU to our Gerber Baby hotel of fiscal insanity!

Anonymous said...

Its called 700 trilion dollers worth of dirivatives that were leveraged. 700 big ones, one the roll of the bones, came up snake eyes. OHHHHHHHH fuck!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

What is PPT?

Thanks!


You know, there's that thing called Wikipedia and "the Internets".

DaveO said...

Anonymous said...

wahhhh wahhhhh wahhhhh
Bernanke slahed my savings account rates
waaaahhh wahhhhh wahhhh

you dipshits couldn't care less about the economy or anyone's well being. it's all about me, me, me.


DaveO said...

Listen, asshole,

How do you know he is an asshole?

having a society where people save money and only buy things that they can afford makes for a STABLE economy, which is good for EVERYONE's well being in the LONG TERM.

He didn't say it wasn't. He just said you were selfish and self-absorbed.


We're selfish and self-absorbed because we don't want people who were diligent with their money to suffer at the expense of the irresponsible? Because we want a better economy for our future generations? Because we don't want short-term solutions to mess up the long-term economy? How exactly are we selfish?

If you had a friend that was a cocaine addict would you say that by not giving him more cocaine, that would be selfish? It's the same thing as having a friend who foolishly spends money and doesn't save it for when they need it. By not giving them money now (i.e. a short-term fix) and forcing them to learn the harsh reality of financial prudence (long-term), that's being selfish?

Why the hell should we encourage financially irresponsible behavior, which hurts the economy in the LONG TERM, just to save irresponsible dimwits in the short term?

He didn't say this either.


By saying that we're upset that Bernanke slashed savings rates, he implied that those of us who do wish to have the fed encourage saving rather than spending are being selfish. He doesn't see the big picture, which is that encouraging saving rather than getting into unnecessary debt is better for individuals and the nation's economy in the long term.

I care about the economy in THE LONG TERM! And you think we're the greedy ones?

He didn't say you were greedy. He said you were selfish and self absorbed. The greedy part comes from you. Are you?


We're greedy because we don't want a society where people spend more than they save, encouraged by a federal reserve that refuses to put a stop to the easy-money (i.e. super-low interest rate) train? Because we discourage our society from getting into more debt when we already have too much debt to begin with? Explain how that is greedy.

It sounds like all you care about is band-aid solutions for those that should have known better and got way in over their head.

He didn't talk about band-aids either. You made this up.


The "band-aid" that I refer to is slashing interest rates to encourage people from taking on more debt. I never said that he directly talked about band-aid solutions but he implied it with his infantile "wahhhhh Bernanke slahed my savings account rates waaaahhh" comment.

The sooner we clean up this horrible mess, by letting bubbles (which are unsustainable ipso facto) burst quickly, the sooner we can have a good long-term economy.

Neither you nor the HP'ers aregoing to clean up any messes. Too busy in here routing for the destruction of the country.


Are you really that stupid? By "we", I meant our nation as a whole, not just us at HP. Encouraging a society where housing prices are commensurate with incomes (as was the case before this decade), though it will cause pain in the short term, is tantamount to "routing for the destruction of the country"? Explain how Bernanke's rate-slashing is going to help rather than hurt our country in the long-term.

Which would you rather encourage, a positive savings rate or a negative savings rate?

Now you have changed the subject.


A positive savings rate is one where people overall save more than they spend; a negative savings rate is just the opposite. Low fed rates encourage the latter. How is talking about savings rates off-topic when they are affected by the fed rates?