December 21, 2007

And then, running out of money thanks to the housing crash, the states let the convicted criminals out of the jails


Can't make this sh*t up.

Got guns?

Mass inmate release possible in California

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is considering the early release of more than 20,000 low-risk prison inmates from the nation's largest prison system as a way to save money amid a worsening budget crisis, a newspaper reported Thursday.

118 comments:

Maximum Security said...

Mish posted something similar recently (Michigan - http://tinyurl.com/2hy979), and I'll respond with the same comment.

Keith, the US has the highest rate of imprisonment in the world (China is second).

http://tinyurl.com/3a9ff9

I think you'll find it's possible to reduce the prison population (and save money) without having to release murderers and rapists onto the streets.

-

Really, do you think the world's going to end if some of the people who smoked a joint get released back onto the streets? The US seems to be obsessed with jailing people!

joe said...

The inmates being released probably aren't actually zombies, as your picture implies. However, just in case I'm wrong, does anyone have an investment strategy that has worked for them in previous zombie attacks? Something involving brains, sweet delicious brains, perhaps?

Debbie said...

Have to agree with maximum security's comment. I'm hoping that for at least one good thing will come out of this national money crisis: the end to the screwed up War on Drugs. Make soft drugs legal. Tax their sale. Regulate the quality. Stop wasting society's money bu putting away small time sellers and addicts.

Anonymous said...

That's OK. California is run by liberals. And as liberals always tell us criminals are not bad people, they are only misunderstood "youth". If we all just give them a hug they won't go back to crime.

Anonymous said...

What's the difference? I already feel like a prisoner in Arnolds' CA. wonderland. Illegal alien felons roam free everywhere (especially in government-BTW, what is happening in the Sup. Ed Jew case these days? Not much coverage lately. Has the SF Mayor cuckolded any of his Friends wives lately?), the roads are impassible with gridlock, out-of-control foreingers run people down at will, bicycles control SF streets.
The MSM is on the take and utterly corrupt, TV is unwatchable, the stock market crashes weekly-no one cares, owning a home is no longer repected or aspired to, there is NO credit available. The President is an utter shameful failure at everything he has done -oh yeah, we are STILL at War...

The only difference between 'population' and prison is the 'yard' is bigger and so far, I am not forced to have a sweaty animal name Joe for a 'wife'.

Do Not Worrry. There is a revolution brewing. If you listen Real Close, you can hear the countdown (like the beginning of a 60 minutes episode...)

tick, tick, tick

Death of America, the Turd World.

Anonymous said...

Timely topic. I was talking to a recruiter recently and she had this pretty cool sounding job in San Mateo, CA. Asked her what the salary was and she - being from the midwest - was like it is an excellent salary. I'm thinking $175K, $200K? To me that is an excellent salary for that area. Turns out it was $105K.

I'm like that's the equivalent of $50K where I live now when taking into account cost of living and taxes in California. She told me she's been trying to fill that position for over a month and just can't get anyone even remotely interested from out of state. Good luck on that I said and went my merry way.

Yeah the weather is nicer and if you are an engineer it's the place to be. But is it really worth living the life of a pauper just to live near Intel or Google? Not for me it isn't. I'll gladly stay out here in fly-over country and live the good life.

kilgore said...

Arnold's on the very front line of what America's future looks like. Like the auto industry with the unions, California pays its employees WAY TOO MUCH ($80K a year for cops and $60K a year for teachers) to ever be competitive in a global economy over the next few decades.

Think about it, California has the largest US export in entertainment, high tech, tourism, and a huge agriculture base, and yet they're nowhere near a balanced budget in the very best of times.

Taxes will go up dramatically (up from 10% state income tax now) and expenditures will go down dramatically. It's not "if" but "when". And even then it'll be too late and the state will look to the feds to bail them out by buying the shitty munis during the next downturn.

It costs $30k a year to incarcerate people and over 50% who are in jail are there for drug offenses (and yes, I've seen enough cop shows to know that they use possession of drugs to convict violent guys who they don't have enough evidence agaist). Arnold's doing the right thing and it's too bad he's not our president.

Ultimately, though, it's too little too late.

Anonymous said...

Will that make room for Lawrence Yun? He would make someone a good bitch.

tater said...

This is a political smokescreen. I wouldn't necessarily be against these people being released from jail, but, eventually, they'll most likely end up drawing some sort of government assistance (welfare) to "get them back on their feet". The government will have to pay for that.

Plus, these released prisoners will have to be monitored, most likely through the parole process- still more government money. And, these people will need counseling for mental and financial matters-still more government money. And, when any of these former prisoners need medical care after they're released, then they'll just get right on down to one of Arnold's free medical-care facilities. The only difference will be that this one won't have a fence around it.

Finally, we all know the percentages concerning former inmates getting sent back to prison. Chances are (unfortunately) that most of these same people will be right back in the pokey.

Like I say, if they think these prisoners are okay to release, that's their choice. But, to use it as a budget savings is typical, hat-trick politics.

Anonymous said...

This move will help California the same way a glass of water will help if the whole house is on fire.

California is looking more and more like Argentina 10 years ago. Eventually it will come down to servicing existing debt, or maintaining basic infrastructure, and they will have to default.

Tangelo Mozilo said...

I agree with the general tone of the discussion here: why doesn't Cali just legalize weed?

Not only would they save money in law enforcement, prisons, and courts, it would add an extra, potentially lucrative, stream of revenue through taxation, and possibly tourism.

MrBill said...

At least half the people in prison should be released to save money. Start with anyone in prison for a crime related to smoking pot or sex between consenting adults.

shtove said...

Isn't that what they did in Iraq before the invasion by the US?

Anonymous said...

I agree with "debbie" - I mean, we're libertarians here, right?

Anonymous said...

End Prohibition and you will save a lot of money and begin to heal the society.

Our current police state's roots took hold in the War on Drugs.

Anonymous said...

>> The US seems to be obsessed with jailing people!

Duh! They committed crimes! Don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to live in anarchy, where the criminals are free to do whatever the hell they want!

Let me guess: you're a LibTard, right?

Marky Mark said...

Funny how government will never touch their largest expense - their union salaries, benefits and pensions...

Marky Mark

Anonymous said...

Like the auto industry with the unions, California pays its employees WAY TOO MUCH ($80K a year for cops and $60K a year for teachers) to ever be competitive in a global economy over the next few decades.
===============================
What happened to "let the market decide what youre worth"? I guess that argument only works when some poor slob is forced to labor at minimum wage, thanks to this anti American "free trade" dogma.

The current California Governor is a Nazi. A Joseph Kennedy Sr. family Nazi in particular. He was promoted to office by George Schultz to play the role of Hitler or Pinochet for the fascist financiers who bankrupt California.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the general tone of the discussion here: why doesn't Cali just legalize weed?

Dont forget prostitution and pornography. Those are important industries too, right?

Milton Friedman

zenkat said...

I'm a california resident, and I for one say ... ABOUT FREAKIN' TIME, ARNIE!

Look, a bigger chunk of my state taxes is spent locking up stoners ($15.4B) than is spent on educating my kid ($15.3B).

Talk about flushing money down the toilet!

Violent criminals need to stay locked up, of course. But we as a nation are far too trigger-happy when it comes to throwing people who POSE NO CREDIBLE PUBLIC SAFETY RISK into the slammer.

My country never fails to amaze me. We're willing to spend trillions to blow shit up and lock people up, but we're stingy when it comes to funding our future ...

Anonymous said...

"Bicycles control SF streets?"

Heh. Ha! bwahahahHAHAHA!

Anonymous, you are a funny man. Ever tried riding a bike in this city?

Maybe you should come visit my bike-riding friend who just got out of the hospital after being pegged by a speeding car that ran a red light.

After that we can go visit an automobile driver who has been mangled by an out-of-control bicyclist.

I'm sure you know plenty, considering the hoards of psycho bicyclists that "control SF streets".

[snicker]

PS -- Ya sure know how to build credibility for your "revolution", brother. [giggle] [snicker]

Anonymous said...

I agree with the general tone of the discussion here: why doesn't Cali just legalize weed?

Because it would destroy the value of the crop. It's a weed... it grows anywhere. Cheap, easy. Keeping it "illegal" is the ultimate price support system. Pot is the biggest cash crop in Ca. We are talking BILLIONS in TAX FREE CASH!

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile the state is spending tens of billions each year on healthcare and education for illegal immigrants. Why not make these "low-risk" prison inmates clean the toilets and pick the lettuce?

Anonymous said...

Really, do you think the world's going to end if some of the people who smoked a joint get released back onto the streets?

Hey moron, nobody goes to prison for smoking a joint.

LauraVella said...

Ugh. Why don't we just fire up ol' sparky more often?

I live here in Alameda, crime is increasing here too. Car thefts, ID thefts, vandelism, and a rash of broken windows of businesses on Park Street.

My husband always told me-

There's a reason all the houses on/and around High Street at the Bridge have bars on the windows in the early 1990's. Over the last 10 years when these houses were sold the bars were taken off...

Anonymous said...

It costs $30k a year to incarcerate people and over 50% who are in jail are there for drug offenses

You're a moron. Most of the people in prison relating to drugs are trafficking heroin and cocaine and belong to violent drug gangs. This isn't grandpa smoking a joint.

Anonymous said...

California pays its employees WAY TOO MUCH ($80K a year for cops and $60K a year for teachers) to ever be competitive in a global economy over the next few decades.
-------------------------------
Dont forget firefighter pay. Some Los Angeles Firefighters (our heroes) are making upwards of $200,000 dollars a year (90% of the time they're cleaning the fire engines and shooting baskets)! Has this country gones nuts or what?

Anonymous said...

At least half the people in prison should be released to save money. Start with anyone in prison for a crime related to smoking pot or sex between consenting adults.


Hey moron, people don't go to prison for smoking pot or for having sex with a consenting adult. Those are not felonies. A pimp who beats on his hookers would go to prison. A hooker would not.

I agree that prostitution should be legalized, regulated and taxed. I agree that weed should be the same. Don't try to spread the BS that half the prison population is in there for smoking a joint. The ones in prison are dealing crack, meth, and heroin. Those are highly destructive drugs that destroy society and turn good people into criminal zombies.

If you want half of the prison population released, we'll put them under house arrest in the homes of every liberal idiot and let you guys deal with them.

LauraVella said...

Deport the ones not here legally - which btw, is probably the whole lot of them.

Anonymous said...


eventually, they'll most likely end up drawing some sort of government assistance (welfare) to "get them back on their feet". The government will have to pay for that.


They're in prison for committing crimes, you dope. When they get out, they will be committing more crimes. People don't go to prison for a non-violent 1st offense. I knew plenty of guys who were arrested for stealing cars and shoplifting. They would always get probation the first 2 or 3 times. They would steal 10 cars before they were finally arrested once. People who end up in prison for long stretches are career criminals.

Anonymous said...

end the drug war. it's a waste of money, makes crime profitable, keeps people from getting help for addictions, and we lose tax rev.

bank dick said...

Kolyfonia needs $50 billion to get out of this pickle. China, Inc. has $1600 billion sitting around and it's CFO is itching to invest. They already control the main ports for shipping traffic on the West coast.

Hmmm, I wonder what will happen next...

LauraVella said...

Why is it assumed these jailbirds are just smoking weed?

Thats not the problem. these prisoners are mostly illegals who drive drunk without insurance, registration, DUI's, vandalism, etc. etc...

Sure, they're not harden criminals, but these turds need to go back where they came from!

The jails should automatically buy them a one way ticket back to Mexico and escort them to the airport.

Stuck in So Pa said...

Marky Mark said...
Funny how government will never touch their largest expense - their union salaries, benefits and pensions...

Marky Mark
============================
Same here in Taxsylvania, it's the same old game plan. The budget god's take the 95% (of the budget) that goes to the 5% at the top (elected/government officials, school administrators, God-almighty public service and teacher's unions with their off-the-top salaries, benefits and gold plated pensions) and, well, that's sacred, can't touch that! So they take the remaining 5% that goes to the 95% and cut it down to 3-4% to get the screaming started. Eventually the masses ante up the tax increases just to keep what damn little services and benefits (if any, NONE in my case) they have. Works every time!
Never a win for the suffering taxpayer, never a loss for the pigs at the trough!

Anonymous said...

"Duh! They committed crimes! Don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to live in anarchy, where the criminals are free to do whatever the hell they want!

Let me guess: you're a LibTard, right?"

---

Well, in Saudi Arabia women aren't allowed to drive. If they do, then they've committed a crime! Don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to live in anarchy, where the criminals are free to do whatever the hell they want!

Sometimes the law is wrong, even in the wonderful US of A, where old laws are sometimes removed from the books.

Let me guess: you're an AuthoriTard, right?

bank dick said...

"Finally, we all know the percentages concerning former inmates getting sent back to prison. Chances are (unfortunately) that most of these same people will be right back in the pokey.

Like I say, if they think these prisoners are okay to release, that's their choice. But, to use it as a budget savings is typical, hat-trick politics."


Exactly. It costs victims and the state around $80K to process one of these shitheels when they get arrested again for some property crime or assault -- and at least half of them will get arrested again. So the state is just saving on immediate expenses in exchange for even bigger long-term costs. That's pretty dumb if you ask me.

Mr. Flibble said...

Keith,
This is probably a good thing. We incarcerate far too many people.

The criminal justice empire is a bubble, too. We have been incarcerating more and more people since the early 1970s--the prison population kept going up and up (mainly due to drug law enforcement and stupid laws like "three strikes" and mandatory minimums)--and it was clearly unsustainable, especially in this economic climate.

For those of you who want to lock 'em up, you're just going to have to suck it. Locking people up costs money. If letting a few thousand low level offenders go is all it takes to cause our country to descend into anarchy, then our country doesn't deserve to live.

Nick Warden said...

The solution to California's prison population isn't to stop incarcerating people for minor crimes (not murderers or TV pundits), the solution is to PAY them to STAY in jail!

Here's how it would work:

1. Existing inmates work inside the prison system, they receive job training for the jobs they are assigned, receive promotions for jobs well done. We pay for food, housing, healthcare and even allow extended families who are also in jail to have family units.

2. Where do we house all these people? Well with the glut of unsold homes on the market, we could simply have the government take over ownership of these abandoned properties by eminent domain. Then we just place barbed wire fences around these unused "gated communities" with a full time guard contingent. Call em minimum security colonies if you want.

3. The "inmates" are monitored for work performance and rewarded for good behaviour i.e. reduced sentences.

4. Existing prisions would operate on the same principle with the acutal smaller percentage of violent, disturbed or otherwise hopless cases incarcerated as they are now.

5. The "stigma" of prisoners being usless would go away as prisoners would enjoy a decent standard of living, would take pride in their "communities" and would be fully able to deal with the "outside" world upon their release. But I doubt that any would willingly give up their sentence for freedom. They'll be happy to stay. We'll even throw in 2 week "vacations" where travel would be allowed.

We are already spending the money to incarcerate these prisoners. What is the difference what they do with their time? Put them to work and teach them a job. We need a lot of things repaired in America right now. What the hell is wrong with a prisoner pushing a broom, or making shoes and getting paid for it? I mean we have poor children all over the world producing Nike sportswear already?

A small percentage of the money they earn would go into a savings account for them which they can use to make a new start when they are released. The rest would go to service the debt on the properties that the government now "manages".

We are going to have to pay one way or the other and the bailout is coming now matter what anyone says or does.

bank dick said...

"I agree with the general tone of the discussion here: why doesn't Cali just legalize weed? Dont forget prostitution and pornography. Those are important industries too, right?"

Like hookers, porn, and drugs are hard to find in Kolyfonia. Figure it out bubba.

Anonymous said...

Why not just exectue everyone in every prison in America? It would wipe out billions of dollars in expenses overnight. The judges and lawyers would be unemployed but that is a good thing cause they would have to find real work that produces something of real value to earn a living.

If Cali. did this their budget would run a surplus and would wipe out the trouble makers in their society concurrently.

You say....what if an innocent man is wrongly executed. I say that life is not fair and you have to break a few eggs to get shit done. Innocent people die each day in car wrecks but we keep driving on year after year.

Anonymous said...

Krug.
LA County alone recieves 1 billion in fed money for social programs for illegal immigrans and that was 4 years ago.
also in LA County 40% dont pay any taxes off the books.
Soon you will see wires from poles stealing electricity like down south.
Ileft Cal 11 years ago and will never go back.

raynla said...

HP's,

You all are forgetting a very important part of this issue. The prison sytem is a business, for profit, money making operation. That's why all of these private companies have been investing in prisons. The goverment pays on time and insures a steady stream of clients by passing laws that make it very easy to ensure the prisons success. Now the states are running out of money to pay and they are basically proving my point by the talk of releasing inmates most who probably shouldn't have been there in the first place. And if not for the housing crash they would be talking about how many more prisons they could build and how fast. (Talk about unintended consequence) I won't even begin to speak about the racial aspect of the issue, I'll save that for another blog.

Back to the crash!

RayNLA

Anonymous said...

Why not go a step further. Close all jails, close down all police departments too. According to you nutjobs the only crimes committed are pot smoking.

Vectorz said...

Violent criminals need to stay locked up, of course. But we as a nation are far too trigger-happy when it comes to throwing people who POSE NO CREDIBLE PUBLIC SAFETY RISK into the slammer.
==================================

I don't agree with this one bit. We should throw all mortgage fraudsters and liar loaners into jail. They DO prove to be a public risk because look at who they've victimized with their fraud (US TAXPAYERS)!

Santa's Helper said...

legalize and tax illegal narcotics.
get rid of stoopid 3 strikes law

benefits:
new state "drug stores"
huge new tax base with $ for recovery
clean prisons of 2/3 of inmates
put the international drug gangs out of business (buy direct in Afghanistan, Columbia, etc)
convert a % of prison guards to police

Man, life would be good if we could get rid of the continually failing silly "war on drugs"

Anonymous said...

Well, in Saudi Arabia women aren't allowed to drive. If they do, then they've committed a crime!

These aren't women in prison for driving, you moron

devestment said...

Ok I’ve got the answer.

Government can control television and the media and use it to scare everyone into staying home and not talking to their neighbors.

Then they can use issues like abortion, war, gay, race, and women’s rights to make everyone angry and opposed to each other.

As a sidebar lets keep pot illegal so more people will want to smoke it, in societies where it is legal the user is frowned upon by strong community and family support. That would be bad for government.

Pot makes you smart, right?

Now let’s create an environment of wealth creation thru obvious financial mania enablement. If we reward borrowing and the lack of saving we can cause enormous inflation while keeping people in the work force thru later wealth extraction and tax payer bailout socialist programs which no one will escape.

Oh wait, that’s what we do. Never mind…

Get to work slave.

You too DOPES.

Anonymous said...

It's in Clownifornia, so who cares? They'll be robbing, raping, and killing a bunch of liberals and illegal aliens. In flyover country, we kill them before they get a chance to be arrested. I'm hoping for more race riots where they beat the shit out of those liberals in Clownifornia. This time, there's even more Mexicans and the whites are fewer and older. Release all the prisoners. They will know which states are tough on crime and which states will welcome them.

Anonymous said...

Keith, I love this site but it's just too damned depressing. My new year's resolution is to stop listening to bad news and try to be positive about the things in life that matter - my wife and kids.

Let the bubble burst away, I just don't have the energy anymore.

Anonymous said...

"You say....what if an innocent man is wrongly executed. I say that life is not fair and you have to break a few eggs to get shit done."

How about we make you the first egg?

But you're right. The Soviet Union took this approach, and that's what made them the major world superpower compared to the USA, who was too concerned about namby-pamby things like civil rights and a fair justice system.

devestment said...

I guess in flyover country the Declaration of Independence is a rag like the Constitution. Remember, under the Declaration “All Men Are Created Equal”. Racism and border control are two separate issues.

Anonymous said...

Ahhh...anyone want to bet that DUI'ers are the last to be released? That's right. It's troubling that a .10 BAC keeps you in jail longer than 5 grams of coke.

Anonymous said...

which means - amnesty..amnesty..and more amnesty to illegals.

tangelo mozilo said...

Anonytard 3:02 vomited:

"Hey moron, nobody goes to prison for smoking a joint."


Anonytard 3:07 barfed:

"You're a moron. Most of the people in prison relating to drugs are trafficking heroin and cocaine and belong to violent drug gangs. This isn't grandpa smoking a joint."

Anonytard 3:13 spewed:

"Don't try to spread the BS that half the prison population is in there for smoking a joint."

--------------------------------

Wow. Where to begin?

First, get a name.

Second, don't make the same point in three different posts to try and make it look like multiple people share your views.

Third, you certainly can go to jail for smoking a joint, especially if you've been picked up for it before. However, you are not likely to do a lot of time for it.

Fourth, even if your assertion about people not going to jail for mere possession were true, which it is not, pot smokers are still sentenced to pay fines, do community service, comply with typical probation restrictions, and go to useless addict meetings. In addition, these people will have permanent criminal records.

This not only ruins people's lives, but it costs the taxpayer money for the police officers' time, the courts' time, the prosecutors' time (and usually a public defender's time), as well as the probation officers' time -- not to mention the loss in productivity that the defendants have when they are dealing with this petty BS instead of going to work.

The cost of prison housing is not the only economic cost of bad drug policy.

Nick Warden said...

"You say....what if an innocent man is wrongly executed. I say that life is not fair and you have to break a few eggs to get shit done. "

Couldn't respect your opinion more!

Uh by the way. You didn't use enough postage on your last letter. I'm sorry but that's a federal crime! Off to prison with you!

Got any requests for your last meal?

Today's execution menu includes:

Salsibury steak with canned grean beans

Instant mashed potatoes and green chocolate chip ice cream for desert.


Sincerely,
Nick Warden

Anonymous said...

that's all we need! more realtors on the street!! jez

Anonymous said...

California pays its employees WAY TOO MUCH ($80K a year for cops and $60K a year for teachers) to ever be competitive in a global economy over the next few decades.
---

cops and teacher salaries are not meant to compete on a global scale.

You can't hire a third worlder at $2/hr to police your city and not expect theft, graft, shakedowns, and get timely service.

Same with teachers. people are people. if they feel that they are not getting what they deserve then they will not provide sufficent services.

Civil service is NOT the same as building a car. If some fat over paid union guy slacks off and GM make a poor product you will buy Honda. The incentive to build a good product is inherent. If GM keeps sucking that lazy over paid union guy will eventually suffer the consequences.

If the fireman can't get to your housefire bec he is fvcking off trying to make ends meet bec you cut is salary in half you will have no recourse. Your house has already burnt down. Cutting his salary again won't make him come any faster.

a cop said...

I am a cop in a large city. I often considered what would happen if the War on Drugs was called to an end. I can say I am probably in favor to ending it.

That would make my job alot easier, thank you very much. Most cops get into trouble with the WoD. Chases, fights, injuries, shootings, complaints, lawsuits, imagined or real civil rights violations all stem from the WoD. With legal drugs, maybe cops too can smoke a joint and see what the hub bub is all about.

However, deep down a cease fire will not solve the underlining problems. To legalize drugs means that accuiring drugs will be easier and probably incorporated in some way by Big Business, imagine a "CrackMart (tm)". The Govt will probably have to issue licenses and regulate the "quality" of the narcotics to keep people high, not dead. To ensure profits, the pols and CrackMart will link up locking down the lic and reg'ing of the trade to themselves.

However, many aggressive people rely on drug sales to financially compensate their lower social-economic status. These people will not just go away and "get a job". These people do not fear death or jail. They will continue to sell on the street trying to undercut CrackMart, an extra dollar is still an extra dollar. The police will continue to chase them around, but now in the name of CrackMart.

Addicts will still be addicts. They will still rob, steal and burgalize other people for money to feed their addiction.

Not much will change.

AmazingRuss said...

Prison doesn't turn people into law abiding citizens...criminals in, criminals out.

They are not going to let out lifers.

The people they are letting out would get out eventually anyhow.

I don't see that it makes that much difference to keep them in.

tater said...

I knew plenty of guys who were arrested for stealing cars and shoplifting.


Yeah, it sounds like you're one of them.

tater said...

"When they get out, they will be committing more crimes."

Why don't you read the ENTIRE post next time,and you will see that I said that. Let me quote it for you, since you couldn't comprehend it.

quote from my first post that the dope didn't read before he spoke from his ass.:

"Finally, we all know the percentages concerning former inmates getting sent back to prison. Chances are (unfortunately) that most of these same people will be right back in the pokey."

To put it simple for ya': There is a good chance they'll be commiting crimes when they get back out. Why do you think that I mentioned that most would be sent back to the pokey for? Man, some people.....Got it now, "dope"?

Jim said...

Officer,

Both pot and poppy are easily grown plants that can grow like crab grass in most parts of the country. Without the government acting as the legbreaker for the drug monopolies, there wouldn't be much profit in trafficing. Growing pot and poppy are literally easier than making moonshine, or even beer for that matter. No distilling or even boiling required.

Good question on the people whose only skill is violence. Perhaps they can sell their skills overseas as mercenaries to big oil companies, so us taxpayers don't have to foot Haliburton's bill. Kids grow up emulate role models; if the bigshot drug dealers are the most successful businessmen in the neighborhood, kids seeing them will try to join gangs . . . just like they disproportionally aspire to become baskeball or other professional sports. Once drug dealing is unprofitable, the gang recruitment for the next generation is cut off.

Cow_tipping said...

This is brilliant. The criminals can buy the houses, and continue their criminal activity and make $$ and pay their mortgage. They should impose a moratorium on arresting them too for it to work.
Is this what they meant by "Bailout" for people in big houses. I thought They mean McMansions, but its not, its the Big house.
Cool.
Srinath.

Anonymous said...

Welcome to upside down land...

In the land where the Murderers, Armed Robbers, and people who have committed Assault and Battery can get an early release. While the dude who is 24 had sex with a 16 or 17 year old can stay in jail. That makes sense to me.

This is truly a case where politics and mass hysterics warp judgments.

Anonymous said...


Once drug dealing is unprofitable, the gang recruitment for the next generation is cut off.


Wrong. They will find the next profitable racket, whether it be insurance fraud, extortion, dealing hard drugs, human trafficking, white slavery or whatever other means of making easy money are available. They are born to be thugs and criminals. Why is it some kids from the ghetto grow up to be doctors or engineers and some grow up to join gangs? Why is it some mobsters and drug dealers are millionaires and continue committing crimes? They are born to be criminals.

Anonymous said...

And to think some republicans wanted to change the constitution so this freak of nature could run for prez.

Aye Carumba!

Anonymous said...


With legal drugs, maybe cops too can smoke a joint and see what the hub bub is all about.


That's exactly what I want - people walking around with guns after injecting heroin, smoking a joint or snorting a line of cocaine. How about the pilot of an jet smoking crack the night before he's supposed to fly you and your family across the country?

Anonymous said...


benefits:
new state "drug stores"
huge new tax base with $ for recovery
clean prisons of 2/3 of inmates
put the international drug gangs out of business (buy direct in Afghanistan, Columbia, etc)
convert a % of prison guards to police


- So we want the government drugging its citizens? Talk about dumbing down of the masses.

- Do you really think these drug dealers and gang members will be taking jobs at WalMart and McDonalds or will they find different crimes to commit?

- Do you think 2/3 of prisoners are in there for smoking pot? Where do you get your numbers from?

Anonymous said...


I live here in Alameda, crime is increasing here too. Car thefts, ID thefts, vandelism, and a rash of broken windows of businesses on Park Street.


According to many DailyKooks here, we should release all the criminals because we are too tough on crime. Liberalism is a mental disease.

Anonymous said...


Welcome to upside down land...

In the land where the Murderers, Armed Robbers, and people who have committed Assault and Battery can get an early release. While the dude who is 24 had sex with a 16 or 17 year old can stay in jail. That makes sense to me.

This is truly a case where politics and mass hysterics warp judgments.


What do you expect from Clownifornia? They need the money to support all those illegal aliens.

Anonymous said...

Third, you certainly can go to jail for smoking a joint, especially if you've been picked up for it before. However, you are not likely to do a lot of time for it.


Hey moron, there's a difference between jail and prison. The prisons are full of felons. The jails are mostly people waiting trial or people who committed misdemeanors.

I support legalizing pot, but you idiots are full of BS for claiming that prisons are full because of people smoking weed.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Schwarzenegger is a traitor.

Having said that, this is why the realtor and mortgage criminals are not going to go to jail (except for high-profile guys like the Orange One that the feds will make an example of).

The jail space is needed for violent criminals, not some Scottsdale tool in a BMW who lied on his mortgage application. They'll suffer enough when they're sentenced to life with bad credit and no Rolex or BMW to flash around.

In any case, I've been and will continue to carry my .40 cal Glock + a few spare magazines, all legally with my CA CCW.

Anonymous said...

Release all non-violent criminals? Does that include all white collar crimes? So you can scam people out of millions of dollars and not face going to prison? You can commit insurance fraud and arson and not go to prison? You can steal cars and burglarize homes and not go to prison? You can steal ID's and wreck somebody's life and not go to prison? Does that mean Fastow from Enron and Ebbers from WorldCom should be released? How about people arrested for drunk driving? Should we wait for them to maim or kill people before they are put in prison? How about kiddie porn? Credit card and check fraud? Theft, vandalism and hundreds of other crimes are non-violent but cause harm to society. Should someone go to prison for stealing 100 cars? How about breaking into dozens of houses and stealing a family's belongings?

On one hand, you dailykooks say everyone who committed mortgage fraud should go to prison. Then you kooks say all non-violent people should not go to prison.

So should Andrew Fastow be in prison or not? Should Angelo Mozilo be in prison or not? If it's up to the the DailyKooks, Mozilo would be charged with a crime but not go to prison. So we would waste taxpayers money on the trial for nothing.

Anonymous said...

In any case, I've been and will continue to carry my .40 cal Glock + a few spare magazines, all legally with my CA CCW.

The dailykooks say you should not be allowed to own a gun because they don't trust you and you are a nutcase. However, they want all convicted criminals released from prison. If you defend yourself from a criminal, then you are a Nazi who does not believe in the US Constitution. That is the mental disease known as liberalism.

Soumynona retsop said...

How about sending people to prison based on the financial damage they have caused by their actions.

We could set prices for what certain things cost.

Murder per person: 50 million
Rape: 10 million
Theft: based on stolen goods
Fraud: based on losses
Drunk Driving: based on property damage and injury or death

Then set the sentencing to how many years that person would need to pay it off by working a minimum wage job.

No death penalty allowed as then the persons would simply be getting a "get out of jail free" card.

What type of work would we sentence the perpetrator to?

SeattleMoose said...

Makes perfect sense to me:

1) Most CEOs are criminals
2) CEOs make a lot of money
3) 20,000 new CEOs = 20,000 new big salaries
4) They gotta live somewhere
5) They all buy houses

Bubble back on track!!!

BTW...I got my education in "logic" via a Century21 correspondence course.

jim said...

"They will find the next profitable racket,"

Sure, some will, but did you notice, after the repeal of prohibition, gang violence dropped dramaticly in the US despite the economy turning sour (30's vs. the go-go 20's).

"They are born to be criminals."

No. There are people who are born dumb sheep, and there are people who are born clever . . . the way the societal laws are set up has a huge influence on whether individuals put that cleverness to good use or evil. Born criminals? That's just a silly argument; were the founding fathers of this country born criminals? After all their "crimes" made them liable to execution for treason.

Anonymous said...

Gotta love these bleeding heart socialists...

Have you seen the crimes the illegal aliens commit in California? Do you realize that the flood of these millions of savages is what has overwhelmed the prison system..and the roads..and the schools..and the hospitals?

California is becoming a Latin American nightmare, and the Mexican gangs are nothing but death squads.

LauraVella said...

Sounds like we have a bunch of dopeheads on this thread.

These criminals in jail getting early release arent upstanding citizens. If they were, they wouldnt still be in the slammer.

Stop using them as an excuse for your "drugs should be legal" agenda on this thread.

LauraVella said...

Max said:"Really, do you think the world's going to end if some of the people who smoked a joint get released back onto the streets? The US seems to be obsessed with jailing people!"


Your right. In other countries if you're caught with drugs, or breaking the law it's the firing squad. Maybe the US needs to overhaul our system?

Princess Mononoke said...

RayNLA said...
>>>The prison sytem is a business, for profit, money making operation. That's why all of these private companies have been investing in prisons.
December 21, 2007 4:11 PM

Exactly! Most are also listed on the exchanges...

Princess Mononoke said...

Vectorz said...
>>>They DO prove to be a public risk because look at who they've victimized with their fraud (US TAXPAYERS)!
December 21, 2007 4:19 PM

I suppose that would also include GWB, Cheney, Paulson, The Fed, The Banking System, Hedge Funds, Ratings Agency's, etc.

YOU get the picture...

Princess Mononoke said...

Devestment said...
December 21, 2007 4:37 PM

LOL! How true How true...

Anonymous said...


the way the societal laws are set up has a huge influence on whether individuals put that cleverness to good use or evil. Born criminals?


How do you explain Ken Lay and Bernie Ebbers? How do you explain millionaire drug dealers who keep dealing and risking prison even though they can retire? How do you explain millionaire mobsters who keep stealing and extorting into their 80's when they can retire as millionaires? They like breaking the law and committing crimes.

Anonymous said...


Drunk Driving: based on property damage and injury or death


So you don't send a habitual drunk driver to prison until they kill or maim people?

Anonymous said...

I support releasing criminals as long as they are all sent to San Franfreako or any liberal college town to rob, rape and murder those people.

Tangelo Mozilo said...

lauravella said:

"Sounds like we have a bunch of dopeheads on this thread."
-------------------------------

How insightful of you, Oliver Cromwell! Perhaps you think Milton Friedman, William F. Buckley, Ron Paul, and Walter Williams are also, as you so pithily put it, "dopeheads?"

Anonymous said...

"Your right. In other countries if you're caught with drugs, or breaking the law it's the firing squad. Maybe the US needs to overhaul our system?"

-

In many parts of the world, it's a fine, and no criminal conviction (record) for minor offences, including possession of small amounts of drugs, or even plants.

Anonymous said...

Arnold is a mental disease.

Totenkopf said...

The economical answer consists of two parts: execution and slave labor. Prospect of the first will motivate those who perform the second. For purposes of thrift and effectiveness the executions will be done regularly in large groups. The decedents will become pet food and fertilizer. Prisoners who pose a risk, who are unable to maintain the requisite level of productivity, or who are simply excess supply, will be executed. All illegal aliens will be executed. Finally, all Wall street grifters and other white collar criminals will be executed as corrective examples for our society.

Stuck in So Pa said...

Addicts will still be addicts. They will still rob, steal and burgalize other people for money to feed their addiction.
------------------------

Not if their addiction is cheap enough. Back when I was in Nam I saw/knew many a G.I. who got hooked on heroin. Over there they smoked it rather than injected it, same result though: hard-core addiction.
BUT, over there it cost about $1 a day to maintain the habit as opposed to $300-600 a day when the sob's got back to the states. These guys's showed up for work every day, performed their duties, and were hard-core heroin addicts. Remember, after a period of time, there is no more high from the drug as the body develops more resistance to the euphoria affect, and the addict is taking his daily dose only to keep from getting violently ill from withdrawal.

I do agree however that the criminal mind will find some new mischief to get into, that's the way their brains work. It's not that it's all they know how to do; IT'S ALL THEY WANT TO DO!
It's the little boy's rush they get from stealing from the cookie jar, breaking the rules.

a cop said...

Good question on the people whose only skill is violence. Perhaps they can sell their skills overseas as mercenaries to big oil companies,
---

Nope. Those people barely get out of the 6 block radius they grew up in. Crime is crime, violence is violence. If their revenue stream is cut off they will get it one way or another. Use your imagination. They won't just become like me and you just like that.

a cop said...

Anonymous said...

With legal drugs, maybe cops too can smoke a joint and see what the hub bub is all about.


That's exactly what I want - people walking around with guns after injecting heroin, smoking a joint or snorting a line of cocaine. How about the pilot of an jet smoking crack the night before he's supposed to fly you and your family across the country?

December 21, 2007 8:39 PM


There are already plenty of citizens armed up and doped out on the streets of America. Consider yourself lucky you don't know just how many....

LauraVella said...

Anoying Anon said:"In many parts of the world, it's a fine, and no criminal conviction (record) for minor offences, including possession of small amounts of drugs, or even plants."

Just try to smuggle drugs into one of these countries: Singapore, Malaysia, China, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Thailand. They'll throw away the key without a second thought.

LauraVella said...

Tangelo said:"How insightful of you, Oliver Cromwell! Perhaps you think Milton Friedman, William F. Buckley, Ron Paul, and Walter Williams are also, as you so pithily put it, "dopeheads?"


LOL...I my must have hit a nerve! Forgive me, Mr.Dopehead.

jim said...

"How do you explain Ken Lay and Bernie Ebbers? How do you explain millionaire drug dealers . . ."

That's easy: Ken Lay and Bernie Ebbers participated in ponzi scams, just like our government is doing with the SS and medicare. Hubris and willful ignorance keep the participants going until the house of cards come crashing down when there was a run on their "banks." As for millionaire drug dealers . . . why do other millionaires keep working? Because (1) a innate drive for more accomplishment; (2) inflation makes millions quite insufficient for retirement; a million-dollar house a couple years ago would have cost only $30k back in 1975; someone retired on that $30k at 40 years old would be sh*t out of luck in his/her 70's, just like anyone who retire early with a million dollars today while still young.

The way the game is set up does not only affect the poor, but also the rich. It's just a matter of what is the least tiring way of making a lot of money, which essentially lays claim to other people's labor. In other words, how to set up an exchange favorable to oneself; Isn't that what everyone is trying to do? It's a feasible system in a free market because every person's preference is different. When violence and coercion is introduced into the system, pushing the boundaries of legal thievery is not exactly new . . . just ask anyone who specializes in political lobbying.

As for "millions of savages" using our welfare institutions, the problem is the welfare state. The "savages" pay rent, and that's what pays for the property taxes, which in turn fund the institutions. Without the rent paying "millions of savages," even more real estates would be abandoned in the cities, which in turn would have long bankrupted the welfare institutions. The very idea that a person "belongs" to a nation-state is anathama to invidual freedom; I certainly hope you don't consider yourself a piece of porperty belonging to the US government or the government of whatever state that you happen to reside. People have legs, and they tend to be attracted towards places of economic opportunity. Without the gold-rushing 49er's, California wouldn't have been settled as a state. Hundreds of thousands of youths in upstate New York migrate to New York City every single year. Government intervention to keep people to where "they belong", like George III did with his edict about colonists not moving beyond the Appallachians, is inevitably costly and futile.

jim said...

Laura,
None of those countries listed are exactly paradises of freedom that we would like to emulate. What's next? flogging people for chewing gums like Sigapore does?

The ethnic Chinese countries (that includes, China, Taiwan, Hongkong and Singapore) have an irrational view towards drugs. The old Manchu Empire of China was the first nation-state in the world that banned drugs, back in the early 19th century, and they got their ass kicked by the British Empire, which enforced free trade with battleships. Over time, an anti-drug policy became a veiled xenophobia policy there by the local elites. The reality is that, vast tracts of drugs are planted in Thailand, Malaysia and China; some of their militaries even engage in the trade, despite the very strict laws against drugs.

The dopehead accusation is also uncalled for. I hardly drink any alcohol myself (perhaps 2-3 glasses of wine in a year, which I can certainly do without), but I can still be against the prohibition, and even an advocate of removing drinking age . . . so that kids can avoid binge drinking in college as a rite of passage. It's just a matter of thinking in terms of reality instead of rigid modelling of the world of: if it's against law, it must never happen. Reality takes place whether we like it or not; we can ony decide whether we want to pay extra taxes to pretend reality doesn't exist.

jim said...

Officer,

Many of them stay within 6 blocks of their place of birth for a very simple reason: the welfare support network that creates generations of poverty. When people have to move in order to make a living, they pack up and move. British Royal Navy, in its hey days in the 18th and 19th century, were packed with "scums of the earth" recruited from the inner city poor. Giving them the opportunity to become soldiers of fortune overseas hired by private companies may even work better than bootcamps that are so often advocated.

jim said...

Totenkopf,

Yup, and those dead bodies will rent and buy a lot of houses. Tongue firmly in cheek, and I assume that you were joking too.

The sad part is that many people seem to think all the drastic policies that deprive people of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are somehow carried out free and without cost or consequences. Perhaps, 70 years of nanny-state welfare have finally prepared Americans for the Big Brother.

Anonymous said...

I think that is a great idea, our tax dollars are paying to keep millions of non-violent criminals locked up and then never commited any "crime" against another citizen but in there for things such as minor drug possesion.

Drunk driving for example is much more "criminal" and dangerours then drug possesion and people have dozen of drunk driving arrest with only a slap on the wrist - they should not be locked up at least thier cars should be taken away.

Anonymous said...

The old Manchu Empire of China was the first nation-state in the world that banned drugs, back in the early 19th century, and they got their ass kicked by the British Empire, which enforced free trade with battleships.

Are you saying that they lost the war because they didn't allow drugs? So it wasn't because of the advanced British weapons? The entire war was due to the English dealing opium to Chinese. The Manchu tried to kick the British Imperialists out of China. They lost because they were 200 years behind in technology, not because they weren't smoking pot.

LauraVella said...

Jim,
The Asian culture does look at drug use differently- I would have to respectly disagree that it's not irrational. Whatever the reason, Asian countries have more success in controling drug abuse under their stystem of justice.

I consider our justice system weak. Otherwise we would have fewer criminals behind bars. There isnt enough of a deterrent to keep gangmembers,criminals,felons, addicts, from selling and killing for drugs.

I don't understand why you would be offended with the word dopehead. I'm not using profanity-only making a statement.

At any rate, please do not take my words to heart.

Anonymous said...

That's easy: Ken Lay and Bernie Ebbers participated in ponzi scams,

You proved my point. Many of these criminals like breaking the law and harming others. It's just a game to them. Anyone can get a job and make a decent living if they want. There are criminals and shiftless people who choose to cause chaos and mayhem. I knew many guys and girls like that when I grew up. Some of us became engineers, doctors or MBAs. Others went to prison. They had the same opportunities that we had. Many of them had it much better than me, but they chose to steal cars and break into homes and businesses. Most of them are in prison, on parole, or dead. We need to get rid of this victim mentality. They are no more victims than the flippers, realtors, mortgage brokers or Wall Street scum that caused the housing bubble.

Anonymous said...

In many parts of the world, it's a fine, and no criminal conviction (record) for minor offences, including possession of small amounts of drugs, or even plants.

Welcome to California!

AmazingRuss said...

"In any case, I've been and will continue to carry my .40 cal Glock + a few spare magazines, all legally with my CA CCW."

Great. Another terrified, armed pussy walking the streets. Dipshits like you are why gun control has so much support.

Go get em, Rambo. If you do meet a real bad guy, he'll take that piece from your quivering hand and stuff it up your posterior.

a cop said...

When people have to move in order to make a living, they pack up and move. British Royal Navy, in its hey days in the 18th and 19th century, were packed with "scums of the earth" recruited from the inner city poor.


Jim, I can't argue about what poor Brits did in that time frame. But I can offer incite to my experience with the young violent urban africans of todays date. To quote Easy E: "We don't give a fuck who the man or the president is." There really are two Americas. IMHO modern disenfranchised blacks do not have the world view that lower class Brits did.

jim said...

Anon,

Manchu ban on drugs was indicative of a bigger problem: it was a fat and lazy centralized empire where bureacrats made irrational laws afar that everyone in the field was in the habit of presuming that such laws could be enforced. Mancu's banned drug smuggling in the late 18th century . . . around the same time when George III banned tea smuggling in North America. Americans promptedly had Tea Party and Declaration of Independence . . . whereas the Manchu madarins chopped a few heads after much tortures (talk about excessive human rights violations) and it was settled until the British came knocking with battleships. Manchu's rigid control over every individual's private behavior and its firm belief that the government can control the minutias of commerce was the reason why they were 200 years behind technologically.

jim said...

Laura,

No offense taken. I personally do not use drugs. However, I do not wish to see my tax dollars wasted on regulating what amounts to victimless personal behavior. The ban on drugs is what's making drug trafficing profitable . . . otherwise most narcotics would be very cheap and unable to fund gang activities.

Asian countries do not have much sucess controlling drugs despite their draconian laws. Afghanistan is the top producer of narcotics, followed by the "golden triangle" between Malasia, Thailand and Burma. Some of their military forces are engaged in the drug trade. Shouldn't be surprising at all. Speaking as an Asian, I can tell you from first-hand experience that Oriental Despotism/Babarism is never efficient; concentration of draconian power only leads to a fertile ground for corruption . . . as in, power corrupts.

Anonymous said...


Arnold's on the very front line of what America's future looks like. Like the auto industry with the unions, California pays its employees WAY TOO MUCH ($80K a year for cops and $60K a year for teachers) to ever be competitive in a global economy over the next few decades.


Here we go again! Another left-wing liberal shving the "global economy" crap down out throats. Unless you want to give up your job to work for $10 a day as they do in asia, shut yout stupid mouth.


It costs $30k a year to incarcerate people and over 50% who are in jail are there for drug offenses (and yes, I've seen enough cop shows to know that they use possession of drugs to convict violent guys who they don't have enough evidence agaist).


Oh... you saw it on TV. Well that sure makes you an expert. The fact is that they is no on in the state prison system who is there for smoking a joint, you dumb ass. Most of the felons being considered for release have violent records from the past who were then released but then put back in a a parol violation. You need to do a little more research instead of believing the rhetoric of idiot politicians like Arnold.

Arnold's doing the right thing and it's too bad he's not our president.


No, he is an idiot! The state is $14 billion under budget because he was too dim to see that the increased revenues from the housing bubble were not going to last. Now he wants to spend another $14 to give out tax payer health care to illegals.

Reddy Watt said...

Here's the problem with private prisons:

As to lobbying by private firms, State Senator Cal Hobson of Oklahoma spoke of what he called “rotunda dynamics” there. Lobbyists from four private prison firms, he said, are regularly in the state capitol, “and all are after the same resource: additional incarcerants to put into their systems.” But even a law-and-order state like Oklahoma, he said, can manage only so much spending on corrections. Currently, as part of the corrections budget, over $100 million a year is spent on the private prison industries’ six facilities. Five years ago, the amount was barely three million. “So you see the exploding growth that has occurred in this one industry.”

https://americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=2321
http://tinyurl.com/36heyk

Anonymous said...


Great. Another terrified, armed pussy walking the streets. Dipshits like you are why gun control has so much support.

Go get em, Rambo. If you do meet a real bad guy, he'll take that piece from your quivering hand and stuff it up your posterior.


Great, another pussy sheeple waiting to become a victim. The cops cannot be everywhere at once. If you are too stupid and incompetent to protect yourself, then too bad for you. Let others protect themselves.

Anonymous said...


They'll suffer enough when they're sentenced to life with bad credit and no Rolex or BMW to flash around.


A lifetime of bad credit? If there is no punishment for white collar crimes, it will only increase. Organized crime and drug dealers are already committing RE fraud because it is very profitable and law enforcement won't prosecute offenders. If you think that the threat of bad credit for 7 years is going to stop people from committing million-dollar scams, you are crazy. That jerk from Scottsdale and millions more like him will be looking for the next scam, causing more harm to the economy and honest citizens.

Anonymous said...

I hope the WaPo isn't readin this blog of dopeheads and idiots who cheer the release of thousands of felons. Let's take guns away from the law-abiding citizens and free the criminals. Real smart. Amazing idiots

Anonymous said...

Arnold's doing the right thing and it's too bad he's not our president.

Hjlamar Schact 1933

Anonymous said...

A lifetime of bad credit? If there is no punishment for white collar crimes, it will only increase. Organized crime and drug dealers are already committing RE fraud because it is very profitable and law enforcement won't prosecute offenders. If you think that the threat of bad credit for 7 years is going to stop people from committing million-dollar scams, you are crazy. That jerk from Scottsdale and millions more like him will be looking for the next scam, causing more harm to the economy and honest citizens.

December 23, 2007 4:44 AM

You are really worried about a few scam artists? The real killers already run the show.

Again, lets keep government out of our lives. Lets allow the free market decide who lives and who dies.

Anonymous said...

"How about we make you the first egg?

But you're right. The Soviet Union took this approach, and that's what made them the major world superpower compared to the USA, who was too concerned about namby-pamby things like civil rights and a fair justice system."



You sound like you have either been to prison or are using the internet from one.

Look pal...just cause I am not a sodomite like you who enjoys prison sex in the shower it does not mean I have some elitist outlook on this topic.

The Solviet Union failed because of their lack of free enterprise in economics. The US has declined so greatly because of our pandering to criminals like you and housing them for decades.

Execute them all by mixing cyanide in their water. We can make a special exception for you and put it in an enema since you like taking it up the rear.

Anonymous said...

You are really worried about a few scam artists?

Look at the damage the few scam artists have done. Either you are a moron or you are one of those scam artists.

jim said...

It's doubtful that the gubermint could stop all scams. After all, scam artistry (aside from those run by the gubermint, like fiat money and social security) are usually private enterprises, which are usually a step or two ahead of the lumbering machinery of the gubermint.

The silver lining in the story is that, until there is government bailout, the victim in a mortgage scam is the big bank that made the loan to the scam artist. A bank so big and out of touch with reality that it lost a bank's basic function of judging on credit risks and pricing loans accordingly. Perhaps banks should not have gotten so big to begin with; perhaps loan officers ought to know the neighborhood where they are lending (what a surprising concept :-)

Mortgage scam prevention should be the bank's responsibility, not that of the government.