October 20, 2007

Forbes throws the bloodsucking realtors under the bus. And then drives over 'em a few times.


It's about time the MSM woke up to the fact that realtors played an incredibly unethical, corrupt, evil and dishonest role in the Late Great Housing Bubble and Crash.

One more time for HP'ers and our realtor guests, to be crystal clear:

realtors are uneducated, immoral, unnecessary, commission-hungry leeches, who conned people into "buying" homes they couldn't afford, homes that the realtors knew were overpriced, homes that the realtors knew their suckers (oops, I mean their "clients") wouldn't be able to keep.

Ponzi Schemes need Ponzi's. Scams need scamsters. realtors may have made a killing these past few years, but now it's over. Never again. The profession of "realtor" is dead, never to return. Good riddance bloodsuckers. Go find an honest job.

Forbes: Where Were The Realtors?

To hear real estate agents tell it, they are indispensable guides through the hazardous home-buying terrain.

How is it, then, that millions of borrowers took on toxic subprime mortgages that could cost them their homes? Why did their agents not warn them off? While much criticism has been leveled at subprime lenders and mortgage brokers, real estate agents have yet to receive their fair share of the blame for the subprime mess, says Shanna Smith, president of the National Fair Housing Alliance. "I think the greed factor works with agents as well as loan originators," she recently noted.

Others say it's not that simple. "The broker, 99% of the time, is the agent of the seller, so the broker doesn't have any duty to the buyer," said Wharton real estate professor Georgette Chapman Phillips.

"It is my experience that real estate agents have been pushing people to buy more expensive homes than they were initially qualified to buy under 30-year, fixed-rate [loan]s," said Smith of the National Fair Housing Alliance.

46 comments:

borkafatty said...

Yup things are sure looking up:

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2007/10/19/neighborhoods_1021.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Anonymous said...

OOoh Greg Swann won't like this one!

Anonymous said...

REALTORS need to look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if they serve a purpose here on Earth

Anonymous said...

REALTORS need to look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if they serve a purpose here on Earth

Won't work
No Reflection

Anonymous said...

REALTORS don't have the brainpower to understand their career is toast

Clotpoll said...

Congratulations, losers.

It seems you guys don't have the cojones to go long or short. All you can do is sit there, wait for Armageddon, bathe in Schadenfreude and feel superior to everyone. Guaranteed when the market finally bottoms, you'll have at least 10 reasons why it still won't be time to buy.

If agents are such a bunch of uneducated dopes, why did so many people get sucked in by what must've been a pretty lame pitch? In what other businesses do you expect people who sell things to shout "don't buy"? Your naievete is both pathetic and amusing. Frankly, most of the buyers who came to me during the boom had fighter pilot eyes and wouldn't have been deterred, even if I'd Tasered them.

BTW...business has never been better. Pre-foreclosures, short sales and other types of forced sales pay better than normal deals. I hope this thing lasts another five years, so I guess I'm with you guys in hoping tons more agents get driven out of the business. More for me!

Anonymous said...

Typical Troll. Sales volume continues to be worse and worse every month in every sector with no sign of a bottom but of course for this realtwhore it's different.

No Market Position???? My CFC puts just exercised last Friday so far in the money it’s really just silly. The HP crowd are the only ones I know that have been playing the put strategy in mass. Hell this is where I got the idea. How come all you realtors didn’t hedge in a like manor? If not you who was in a better position to see this coming? Wait...I remember...real estate never goes down. I surmise they don’t teach things like economics in your crappy little realtwhore certificate course. Now you know the difference between having received an education with textbooks instead of coloring books. Since realwhores are “Professionals” too I suppose you can find another professional type job at the car wash. Don’t forget your Gucci rain coat.

Trading Places said...

God, this guy sounds like the two rich old guys from the Eddie Murphy classic, Trading Places.

"Tell him the best part, Mortimer."

"The best part is, the price goes up, the price goes down, we get paid either way."

Anonymous said...

You know, I usually enjoy reading your blog. But I must take offense today. For sure, there are some Realtors out there who are unethical and did exactly what you described. But to group every agent together as ponzi scheme masterminds is ridiculous. In every industry there are extremes. There are good doctors and there are bad doctors. There are good mechanics and bad mechanics. You can't say that all Realtors are evil. I personally had to talk 2 clients out of buying homes in the past because it was out of there range. In my opinion, the problem lays with the BAD lenders who were approving everybody with a heartbeat. Then there are BAD Mortgage brokers who talk clients into negative am loans when they don't make sense for that situation. Then there are BAD Realtors who pushed their clients into the wrong house in the wrong part of town, whatever. The same media that is now bashing the real estate industry was the same one that was feeding to the frenzy in '04. Every investment industry goes through cycles. I came across 3 or 4 people during the boom, that hated Realtors, like many here, but were pushing harder than anyone to by the biggest house on the block. The problem is with lack of education on everybody's part. The entry barrier to get your real estate license definitely needs to be raised but the buyers themselves need to become educated as well. The blame lies with everyone.

Andrew Hac said...

I do agree that realtors are the leeches of society. They contribute nothing to the overall good of the advance or well-being of mankind. I would be ashamed to have a realtor as a friend, a spouse, or a relative. And most if not all realtors are uneducated, ignorant of the law and rule surrounding them and they exhibit the dark sin of mankind to the extreme: GREED.

Society should exterminate REALTORS with extreme prejudice. Their policy should be canceled with the meanest method if necessary. In another word, REALTORS are SHIT !

Anonymous said...

It's about time an internationally credible magazine speaks out about the Realtors role in this debacle.

I'm an independent Mortgage Professional. I only specialized in helping my clients refinance out of the toxic loans they were put in, either when they purchased their home or last refi'd. My colleagues couldn't understand why I didn't care to work or network with Realtors.

I spent one weekend visiting "Open Houses" throughout an area in Los Angeles county. I went dressed very casual, incognito, acting like a curious buyer. Let me tell you, each and every one of the real estate agents I encountered sounded like a broken record. Spuing garbage that, "you're throwing your money away paying your landlords mortgage" or "you don't need a down payment, and don't worry about qualifying" etc. I explained to them that I was a single woman, self employed, paying only $800 rent per month. They were trying to push homes priced at $500k to $600k. It was a one-way conversation each time.

I was so disgusted. It was hard for me to even talk to them, really. I would end each conversation saying, "why would I want to go from $800/month to pay $3,000/month. Is this really in my best interest? They would finish by saying, "just think you would fulfill your dream of being a homeowner". I would thank them for their time and excuse myself.

I would gestimate that 98% of home purchases were funded with PayOption ARMs (Negative Amort.) 3yr hard prepay loans. This is because the lenders would pay the loan officer 2% to 3% commission. Allowing for a no money down transaction.

I was told by several of my clients that they were told one thing at the beginning of the purchase process and get an entirely different loan at the closing. My clients said they felt obligated to sign the final paperwork because they did NOT want to LOSE their deposits.

Anonymous said...

At least 90% of agents are a bunch of uneducated, unscrupulous and unethical dopes! Agents were the best drug peddlers, used car dealers, etc.

It was sickening for me to have to be competing against a pimply faced kid fresh out of high school or some fast talking salesman. No experience necessary everyone touted. You just need to be hungry to make the sale! This is in both real estate and lending. Standards were set soooooo low, literally anybody to get their license.

The agent must NOT put their personal interest before the DUTY! It's not a home your selling it's more like a large debt. It should have been what is in the BEST interest of this specific buyer!

Anonymous said...

I'm glad somebody in the MSM is finally addressing this travesty of realtors trying to push people into more home than they can afford.

I first encountered it in '97 back in Seattle. Tell the realtor you're in the market for a 180K home and they proceed to show you a bunch of 250- 275K homes, etc. Then direct you to their "certain loan broker".

The city of Seattle even sponsored this corrupt "First Time Homebuyers Program" where people were "shown" how they could afford way more house than was prudent. Several friends went and were appallled. I wonder now if that program wasn't encouraged and sponsored by the Washington Assoc. of Realtors.

There really is no need anymore for realtors. But at the very least, they should be refused admittance to the Halls of Congress and the State Capitols.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I'm a loyal HP'er, and I don't think this topic was headed in this direction, but I get disgusted whenever I see anything that even hints of taking personal responsibility out of the equation. Forbes' article reeks of this.

I blame the sheeple, not the wolves (realtors.) If they're too stupid to understand that realtors are their adversaries, they deserve to get financially slaughtered.

David Lereah, your local realtor, Lawrence Yun, and the new NAR stooge are all highly trained experts in the psychology of advancing a sale, of understanding the workings of a complex purchase decision, of appealing to people's emotions, and of dismissing doubts. They may pick up a few things about economics and financial literacy along the way. Shame on the maintream f'n media for not recognizing this. .. but again don't blame realtors for the media's foolishness.

BTW-- I actually love that realtor dickhead who chimed in above. He's honest. I'd sooo much rather deal with him, keep up my guard, get things in writing, and know what the deal is.. rather than have to deal with an annoying new best-freind type salesman.

Anonymous said...

You poor helpless fools. Can't you read your own loan documents? You ignorant babies can't figure out what the payments are on a mortgage? Do you need the realtors and lenders to be your babysitter for the rest of your life? Why don't you grow up and take responsibility for your stupidity instead of blaming your lazy attitude and lack of self sufficiency on others. You deserve what ever you get for signing loan docs that you can't comperhend on your own. Get a life.

Tyrone said...

Here's is a typical realtard:

"I'm not a real estate bum," Realtors say. Seither invested - unwisely it turns out - in expensive Clearwater waterfront property at the peak of the recent boom. Lenders are after her for millions of dollars in debts. After juggling 15 calls from debtors, creditors and clients, Seither lays the phones aside and delivers a pep talk to herself. "I'm not a real estate bum," the president of Executive Preferred Properties announces. "I wear diamonds, Rolexes and necklaces. I'm a classy Realtor."
http://tinyurl.com/2pjhon

And she is in the Housing Bubble Hall of Shame®, of course.

Anonymous said...

in every professional there are a few bad apples...primary responsibiity is on the buyer. Read the contract - if it's too complicated then don't sign. As far as losing your downpaymnent - what down payment?? I actually would prefer to deal with this type of RE agent - who trolled here. At least he is honest and I understand where he is coming from. He'll know where I am coming from. I really think many - but not all buyers were really greedy and stupid...I think the same about some of the mortgage and real estate agencies as well. RE, the stock market - they are all cyclical...just worried that this is going to effect all other aspects of the economy and will get collaterally screwed too.

Anonymous said...

I have the cajones to be very short on the homebuilders and mortgage lenders. It's easy money in my brokerage account. They are being destroyed just like the real estate speculators.

Anonymous said...

Not only did the realtrolls steer people into homes they couldn't afford, they helped the sellers put in fake bids to start bidding wars.

When I was looking at some REO's last year, the realtroll was telling me not to fuss over an extra $20K because it would only come out to $50 more per month on the loan. I never used the guy again.

Daniel (the other one) said...

"The broker, 99% of the time, is the agent of the seller, so the broker doesn't have any duty to the buyer," said Wharton real estate professor Georgette Chapman Phillips.

There is supposedly an agent for the buyer and an agent for the seller. Each gets half of the 6% commission (to then be split 50/50 with their office typically).

But this commission structure puts the agents' interests in conflict with both they buyer's and seller's interests. Neither the agent for the buyer nor the agent for the seller care about anything but collecting that fat commission.

If the asking price is 10% below fair market value, the seller's agent doesn't care--that just makes it much easier to move, and the commission is hardly affected. If the buyer is going to get foreclosed on in a year, the buyer's agent doesn't care--(s)he's long gone.

Both agents are simply working to move the property as fast as possible to whatever sucker will buy it. Pretending to have their clients' interests at heart is deceptive and a form of fraud.

I'm all for personal responsibility, and the sheeple who bought more house than they can afford are ultimately responsible for their own actions. But the RE industry is built on fraud and should be sued out of existence. Where are the greedy trial lawyers when we need them?

Clotpoll said...

Howdy, lameasses.

Pretty cool how many people named "anonymous" hang out here. What a coincidence.

Let me go on the record as being a Realtor who both knows what fiduciary duty is...and takes the concept seriously. I grew up in real estate (dad- commercial developer; brother- developer/builder) and have ridden the biz thru two boom/bust cycles in my life. I don't have enough time or patience (or interest) to even begin to address the moronic invective tossed toward my business here. Yes, the bars to entry are low...yes, it's the most money a lot of people can make without having a gun in their hands...but, seriously, you guys have no clue. And, it IS a lot like the two old geezers in "Trading Places" said: up or down, we get paid either way. There are a lot of folks walking out of RE offices and into orange smocks, but there are also people in this business who take lemons and make lemonade. Believe me, if you're upside-down on your house, need help fighting with the bank and need a sale quick, I'm your new best friend.

Squarely putting the blame on agents for a five-year market run is like saying the guys in the blue coats running the floor at the NYSE take the stock market up or down. We're brokers; we make markets and put buyers and sellers together...that's it. No more, no less.

Anonymous said...

Many years ago the lenders use to keep the realtors somewhat honest .If a realtor oversold a property the lender might refuse to lend to much . The realtors could not bring unqualified people to property because the lenders would just turn down the loan and it would be a waste of everyones time .

When it was clear to realtors that the lenders had gone off their rocker with easy lending and the appraisers would hit any appraisal ,than it was just a matter of finding one sucker after another who would go on a toxic low down teaser payment loan .

Both the corrupt mortgage agents and realtors had the same talking points and same sales pitches ,like "real estate always goes up", and "you can always refinance out of this loan". Most of the borrowers had nothing to lose with zero down financing and any realtor could talk almost anyone into that sale ,(but they needed teaser rates in order to do it.) The jest of the sale was that the borrower could refinance by the time their low payment adjusted,and their property would go up by that time.

As the housing boom got more absurd and the lenders got more crazy ,the realtors found out that all they had to do was send anybody to a lender and the loan would be made with no regard to qualifying because the loan agent would mickey the file .

Nobody can tell me that the realtors were not the set up people for the faulty lending .

Its very clear that a realtor knows when they are selling a house to a unqualified buyer (I'm basing this on the fact that I have been a realtor and a lender as well and I know what goes on .)

Just because a realtor didn't fill out the paperwork that the mortgage guy did ,doesn't mean the real estate agent didn't know that the fraud thing would be done .

The realtors had a hand in pressuring the appraisers and we all know the outright investment lies realtors told to get a sale .

We all now know that given half a chance ,most realtors will not stop a lending or appraisal crime if it means they might get a commission . In fact ,real estate agents have proven that they will set it up for the lenders agents to commit lending crimes by selling overpriced houses to unqualified people .

It all starts with the sale of the house . Had the realtors only brought qualified buyers to homes way back in 2002 ,the market would of quickly corrected .

Realtors and lending agents alike were chanting the same song and giving the same sales pitches .

The buyers were caught up in greed or fear during a mania and they trusted commissioned salespeople who knew that the financing was fraudulent and crazy, but everyone believed that real estate going up would hide all sins . I have never seen so many parties willing to commit fraud in lending ,including the borrowers .

Paul E. Math said...

It's a total cop-out to say 'well, maybe some of us are scum-bags, but we're not all scum-bags'. Look at your leadership.

Look at the state and national associations of realtors, look at their actions, and now tell me you're not a scum-bag.

You support the outright lies that are perpetrated in your name and until you do something about that then you, realtor, are a scum-bag.

Anonymous said...

Clotpoll said...

"Squarely putting the blame on agents for a five-year market run is like saying the guys in the blue coats running the floor at the NYSE take the stock market up or down. We're brokers; we make markets and put buyers and sellers together...that's it. No more, no less."

I'm that independent mortgage professional who spoke about my disgust with my colleagues. Before choosing the mortgage industry I was an institutional trader. Yes Clot troll, I mean Clotpoll, you are right about there always being buyers and sellers. However, the real estate market is quite different from the stock market in that a stock market investor is NOT carrying a half a million dollars or more DEBT attached to this investment.

A brokerage may allow a day trader to purchase stock on margins. Nevertheless, the brokerage will only loan up to 50% if they have worked with this trader before... BECAUSE of the HIGH RISK involved. AND I might add that it usually is an overnight loan!

What planet are you from!!!??? 5year market run??? More like 10year market run. Do you NOT read graphs? Where do you get your data?

You ARE the epitome of what this blog is about. Seriously, where did you get educated? do you even have a degree?

Anonymous said...

I have to add that it IS our responsibility to do what is in the BEST interest of the client. Buying a home is a serious commitment. How could anyone in good conscious help a client purchase a home right now? Knowing damn well they will be upside down within a month? and last for 3 to 5 years!

The fiduciary duty has been almost non-existent. It like a doctor prescribing his patient medication that he's getting paid under the table for by the pharmaceutical company to push. We all depend on our doctor's expertise and advise. It took the doctor years to get his credentials, he knows what we don't. Therefore, we, the public, clients, depend on the doctor's advice. If you get your eye's check and he gives you a new prescription for glasses or contacts. You trust him to be giving you the right eye sight prescription.

Same SHOULD be true about Realtors and mortgage people. We held the responsibility to disclose everything, explain their options and educate the client about each product. NOT thinking what will pay us more. Yes we should be paid for our service. Reasonably though. NOT exuberantly and at the expense of the client!

BTW, I might also add that I only study one full day to take and pass the Real Estate exam. Whereas, I spent 3 months after work, nights and weekends studying for the Series 7 stockbroker license. Plus, had to take a 2 week bootcamp studying course prior to taking the exam! Plus, most brokerages require a college degree! It makes sense, you're dealing with other peoples hard earned money! That we're responsible for!!!

Anonymous said...

oh, please. I come from a family who had realtors and I lived with one for awhile in LA. My uncle was the regional manager for one of the top five real estate agencies in Portland, Ore, for a decade. Way before all this bubble shit. When I would see him and ask about the business, he would say that he had to wake up EVERY morning, particularly SAT. and Sun., and figure out a way to keep about a dozen of his brokers from going to jail.

As for the scammers in LA, my fairly scrupulous girlfriend at the time had two big run-ins with her boss over deals inside their office, where he tried to change the terms of the deal after the papers had been signed, when she represented the other end of the deal. One time, the piece of shit tried to write her out and put his name in her place and threatened to take away her desk if she didn't go along.

You FUCKERS should be in jail!

Here in Seattle, in my neighborhood, I have watched the blatant collusion by the top realtors in the area to drive up the prices 100k a year, for FIVE years running!!!!

At the start of the 'oughts, you could get a fixer in the 150k range. Next year, all the entry level houses were in the 200ks, the next year, in the 300ks, often the same houses with a new coat of paint. (The ones that didn't sell were bought by other realtors, even if the P/E didn't work for a rental, just to keep the price up)

And the next year, they got EVERYTHING up into the 400ks. No matter how bad. Only aggressive appraisers wanted.

By the fifth year you had uninhabitable 2+1's with no garage, no view going for 500k. Some poor flippers got caught in this trap and their products, back on the market at close to 1mil, sat for years as sanity caught up.

But now as the realtors have so many properties hiding on their OWN balance sheets, they had to become flippers themselves. These fuck stains are REALLY screwed because now all of the jumbo loans are gone, they may only be able to sell a house at 490k or less, when that is what they paid for the dirt. That price point hasn't dawned on these greedheads yet, but one day ALL the prices on houses in this country may have to fit into conforming loan standards.

There is a fucking word that was lost, STANDARDS.

You should all go down under a RICO prosecution. Realtors, appraisers, mortgage brokers, & bankers!

Problem is all the jails are full already.


King of the Bitter Renters

Anonymous said...

The lenders and banks are AS much to blame for this fiasco. They actually started it! They lowered their qualifying standards so low that your DOG Fido could even qualify... Then the Realtors and loan officers followed. Plus, I might add the direct lender's loan officers were just as BAD as the mortgage brokers and staff.

I can't tell you how many clients I helped get out of loans pushed on them by World Savings, Downey Savings, Countrywide, New Century the list goes on and on. These clients were place in loans they should have NEVER been in. My prospective clients would actually fax me the "Good Faith Estimate" from the lender. Each time the fees were not disclosed, etc. lying from inception. The other lender was pitching them the World. If the client chose to believe them, I would explain that they had a 3 day cancellation period and to call me after signing the docs. The client did, I would go to their home and review with them. Interest rate was MUCH higher, loan amount was MUCH higher, fees were outrageous! etc. Most were put in PayOption ARMs. Oh and the notary never even bothered telling the client they had a 3 day cancellation period.

Well, I would help them cancel the loan and put them in a long term fixed. Now all of my clients are calling me and thanking me for my patience and understanding. And actually caring about them!

DAGG said...

"Clotpoll said...
Congratulations, losers.
It seems you guys don't have the cojones to go long or short."

not only do I have the cojones to go long and short, i'm putting it up for all to see. booyah.

http://tinyurl.com/2am7x8

Anonymous said...

Real estate agents exist in many places, not just the US. They have a proper function that has been extended far too much in the US. They should
- represent sellers who have moved to a location far away or simply don't want to spend their time on getting the best price,
- represent buyers that need to move from far away and need local information, and
- have good negotiation skills.
They should not
- monopolize the search databases for real estate,
- get 6% of the sales price (1-2% are the norm in other places), and
- lobby the government successfully to keep competitors out.
Real estate agents will stay much stronger in business than travel agents were able to, and I welcome that, but the REALTORS should vanish.

Peter T

Anonymous said...

Squarely putting the blame on agents for a five-year market run is like saying the guys in the blue coats running the floor at the NYSE take the stock market up or down. We're brokers; we make markets and put buyers and sellers together...that's it. No more, no less.

In case you haven't noticed, those guys at the NYSE have been replaced by computers.

Yup. Algorithms on ECNs can now very successfuly chop and handle enormous orders with discretion.

Romeo the smooth talker and white-shoe Andover Chip have been obsoleted by Dr Finkelstein and Wang's C++ programs.

And it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.

Anonymous said...

Nice piece about Greg Swann over at exurban nation, under
http://exurbannation.blogspot.com/2007/10/greg-swann-needs-our-help.html#comments

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

@ King of the Bitter Renters,
Right On, Good Rant.
I agree with every thing you said/typed except the "Poor Flippers" part.
I do NOT feel sorry for fliptards, like Casey Serin. They are personally
the tools that helped with the unsustainable run up in housing prices in our home towns, I reckon.

Anonymous said...

It's a beautiful Sunday morning in Northern California and I want to thank posters like clotpoll et. al for thier views, as is their right. It's so amusing. After watching a documentary on the Nazis last night it reminds me of America today. When those at the camps were confronted of their misdeeds and cruelty, they responded they were merely 'following orders'.
When so-called "realtors" are confronted with their actions of recent past, they report they were "just doing their job" and trying to 'help' their 'clients'- its' a SCREAM! That must be like getting paid when the market goes up or down. A Realtor, my 'new best friend'? I don't think so....

Grant Deed in hand. Yr. Welcome!

borkafatty said...

Christ I feel like I am in the middle Of a bad Soap Opera here..I can hear it now:

And Welcome back to....

" Days Of Our Realtors"

JimAtLaw said...

The article is not nearly blunt or strong enough about Realtors and the NAR and the role they have played here - have people already forgotten how recently the NAR was still screaming that it's always a good time to pay a Realtor a commission?!

bryce in canada (Vncvr&Clgry bubbls) said...

It is true that many realtors, like many salespeople of other products and services, cajoled people into buying things they couldn't afford.

That is distasteful I suppose, but....

But you know what?
IT IS IMMORAL TO LET A SUCKER KEEP HIS MONEY.

It is hard -- no, wait, -- it is IMPOSSIBLE to feel sorry for anyone who got suckered by any realtor. If you're willing to borrow or spend such huge sums of money, you had better understand what is really going on and what the risks really are. And you had better research such things beyond what is said/explained by (1) the seller and (2) the commission-earning agent. What kind of a f*cking moron borrows or spends hundreds of thousands of dollars without truly understanding what they are and aren't getting themselves into? ---> a f*cking moron who merits no sympathy, for one thing.

Similarly, I don't feel sorry for people who get suckered by psychics etc. into blowing wads of their money.

I have no sympathy for anyone in this whole epic debacle with the following exception: I feel sorry for taxpayers, to the extent that their tax dollars get spent in bailing out anyone and any entity that lost money in this epic debacle.

"STUPIDITY IS THE ONLY UNIVERSAL CAPITAL CRIME; THE SENTENCE IS DEATH, THERE IS NO APPEAL, AND EXECUTION IS CARRIED OUT AUTOMATICALLY AND WITHOUT PITY."
- Robert A. Heinlein

k.w. - southern ca. said...

After driving back to the coastal cities, one thing more than anything stood out to me . . . the explosion of forsale signs within Huntington Beach especially, in some places 10-20 signs on a corner.

This is just the beginning though, and since these areas are overvalued, they will loose much of their speculated worth as "marked to market" hits home here as well.

k.w. - southern ca. said...

Blame goes to both the sellers and buyers of toxic house loans.

They were all greedy, hoping to become wealthy (monitarily) overnight.

My parents worked long and hard to steadily build up equity. It took them years, and they used their own money, but in the end they were not shackled to a debt trap that even a 6-figure income would have difficulty covering now.

Now, people want it all - fast - no waiting, and as a result of this thinking we've created this monster of a problem with housing.

Recently, deals are now being provided those in public service (fireman, policeman, teachers, etc..) to acquire housing starts for less than those in the private sector. They definitely got that one in reverse, since those in public service are the best compensated in our country.

As someone working with public service employees, I know this
to be true - there is a huge amount
of waste going on in this sector, at the tax payer's expense - plain and simple.

Just something else to provide more fuel to the fire as more tax payer dollars go to finance those in entitlement programs.

However, nothing will save this sinking ship - it's long past the point of recovery.

Housing, renting ... none of that is really important when many people will have bigger problems, like putting food on the table - any table.

real estate 101 said...

BS. 99% of Agents working for the Buyer are required by law to be BUYER'S AGENTS ONLY. Being a dual agent or otherwise is 99% forbidden in most States today.
The Buyer's obtain the loan THEY choose. Real estate Agents have little input in the side of the process.

For example: Mr. and Mrs. Buyer that I think you should have a 20% down payment and a 10 year mortgage. (yea, that'll fly) Buyer and Seller tend to think they're experts on all aspects of the transaction. After all, they read a book or website.

bottom feeder in philly said...

I love this site, and the NAR sucks, but why does everyone blame the Realtor and mortgage broker. Realtors price homes based on the comps. Buyers were the ones driving the prices, appraisers were appraising them, and underwriters were writing the loans.It's a lot bigger than just the realtor. Someone commented Realtors need to look in the mirror. It's the buyers that need to look in the mirror and admit they screwed up. Someone else said that realtors don't have the brainpower to understand their career is toast. Well I began working on a new business model last year because I knew the crash was coming. I am well on my way to a 150 to 200k income in 2008. How's your career or business doing. I also bought a bunch of properties with positive cashflow 10 12 years ago, with none of my own cash, that have tripled in value. I would be more than happy to bet a grand that my net worth surpasses yours, even after the correction. Guess I don't have any brainpower. Andrew hac said realtors should be exterminated. Get a life dude! The scumbags that screwed people will get what is coming to them, but sellers that are screwed are going to need the savvy realtor that understands short sales, subject to's and lease options, or someone to help qualify tenants if they chose to rent an unsellable property. I would like to see if you have the balls to call me shit to my face. I contribute a lot to mankind. I have over 150 low income people that live under the roofs of my rentals who may be homeless otherwise.I keep my rents affordable, my places clean and well kept, and try to work with people when they struggle with the rent. What have you done for society recently?
Keith, can we have a post for personal responsibility. Did everyone here posting such negative shit get screwed by a realtor. If you did you are the brainless wonders. If you didn't why are you so angry? Usually the posts on here seem pretty educated for the most part, but this thread serves no purpose, and has absolutely no educational content whatsoever. If you got screwed by a realtor and a mortgage broker it is your own freaking fault. You were the ones that picked that person. There are plenty of decent, ethical agent's and lenders out there. If it makes you happy I was talking to another agent the other day. She is a single mom with 2 kids, and is 2 months behind on her mortgage. She had to get a waitress job, and her kids spend their evenings with a 16 year old baby sitter. I guess she is getting what she deserves, RIGHT? I don't wish ill will on anyone, and this housing correction will cause a lot of pain to a lot of people. I deal with it every day and it isn't some fucking joke. People are losing everything, and I am doing everything in my power to help with their situations. Does that constitute a leech? I just rented a townhouse commision free because the client couldn't afford the commision. I guess GREED is what motivates me. I'll get off my soapbox now. Andrew, anytime you want to try to cancel my policy in the meanest method necessary, I live in the suburbs of Philly, and I will be happy to give you the shot. Shit like this should be flagged from the site.
Bottom Feeder in Philly

Anonymous said...

I have no dog in this fight, however, let's take a little test, shall we?

I have a box of dirt I will sell you for 1 million dollars. If you buy it, regardless of external forces i.e. agents, lenders, etc., who is at fault?

That's correct, skippy. It is the buyers fault for making a lame purchase decision.

Does it get any simpler to explain.

JimAtLaw said...

Ah, 3:15, but what if someone tells you the box of dirt is really a box of gold and you're just not smart enough to tell the difference?

Of course, barring fraud (e.g., the Realtor fabricating tales about other bidders) you almost always retain ultimate culpability for your own bad decisions, but when someone is lying to you to get you to buy, as Realtors have been doing very consistently over the bubble years ("Real estate only goes up!"), they share in moral responsibility for your plight. Not so much to absolve you of blame usually, but I think most people agree that a lying Realtor is not blame-free here.

Clotpoll said...

anon 8:27-

Yep, people have been saying we were gonna be replaced by computers/internet/robots for the past 12 years.

How's that working out?

BTW, I wouldn't be pointing with pride at the quants and their track record lately. Their mark-to-make believe pipedreams have yet to fully come home to roost.

Clotpoll said...

Philly 4:16-

With you on all that. These people are a bunch of retards who have no clue about anything. From the tone of the really nasty posts, I'm gonna guess there are a lot of second-rate IT people and hack engineers posting to this thread. I've found that the people most tone-deaf as to how markets work come from some sort of engineering/IT/computer background.

Love the Nazi analogies, too. Ironic that so many here make blanket indictments of Realtors & mortgage people...yet the idea of vilifying whole classes of people because of who and what they are was perfected by the Nazis.

Chip said...

jim 5:03-

"...but I think most people agree that a lying Realtor is not blame-free here."

I certainly agree. Realtors who aren't ethical and/or break the law should be horsewhipped. We do have far too many bad agents, and this market will hopefully continue to ratchet out the bad actors.

Bottom Feeder in Philly said...

I do agree that realtors are the leeches of society. They contribute nothing to the overall good of the advance or well-being of mankind. I would be ashamed to have a realtor as a friend, a spouse, or a relative. And most if not all realtors are uneducated, ignorant of the law and rule surrounding them and they exhibit the dark sin of mankind to the extreme: GREED.

Society should exterminate REALTORS with extreme prejudice. Their policy should be canceled with the meanest method if necessary. In another word, REALTORS are SHIT !
Posted by Andrew Hoc
October 21, 2007 12:09 AM

Hey Andrew you spineless Hitler wannabee. I notice you have nothing to say in reply to my last post. Don't worry I would certainly have no desire to be your friend either, and notice you don't have the courage enough to put who you are on your blog site. Bloggers are supposed to offer something of merit. I try to offer a little education in my posts. You seem to want to commit genocide to a certain trade group for some apparent reason. What is your reason for this ridiculous post. Please don't ever use a Realtor. I truly doubt they would want anything to do with an asshole like you. I know exactly what type of client you would be, in fact we have a name for people like you. Some of the people bashing Realtors actually make some good points why, and I enjoy some of the humor. I also understand that many are self serving and commision hungry. However their are also highly educated ones with a lot of transaction histories, that actually saved clients from making stupid decisions. Never once did I allow a client to do an option ARM unless they were financially savvy investors, or people such as sales people, or contractors who had peaks and valleys in income. That was what the program was originally designed for. The rest went into the best fixed rate loan I could find them since that is such a great inflation hedge. Most of the deals I did for buyers were usually bought at 70 to 80% market value. They required a lot of hunting and negotiation. I also got my sellers very good prices for their homes up until this year, which made my services worth every penny I was paid(I also worked the listing sides at discounts, and paid for my buyers title insurance out of my commision)I'm real GREEDY aren't I. On my latest deal I agreed to fix the roof of the listed home for my selling client because he doesn't have the means to do so,and neither does the buyer. It would have been a deal killer if it wasn't fixed. I take your post very personally(something I rarely do). Next time you have something to say, say something that has value or keep your fucking mouth shut. In my opinion you are the piece of SHIT. I challenge you to reply back with something of substance. FYI I am in the process of taking educational courses to get my brokers license, have over 100 transactions under my belt the last 3 years, and my whole business is referral based or repeat clients. I also have been a landlord for the past 10 years, and recently began doing property management for those that couldn't handle it themselves. I teach continuing education courses on real estate investment and property management, as well as offering a landlord mentoring program to rookie landlords. I regularly speak for a PA based Real Estate investment group, sometimes in front of a room of close to 1000 people. I own 80 rental units personally and have another 50 under management for clients. We have 3 vacancies out of 130 and they will be filled this month. I would consider myself pretty well educated in my field. I would love to hear your profession and educational background so I could insult you too. Bring it on you tool box.
Bottom Feeder in Philly