June 08, 2007

HousingPANIC Stupid Question of the Day

How pissed are the neighbors getting at smart homedebtors who are lowering their prices, selling their debt-traps, and taking the money and running while the getting is still good?

Got comps? Got ammo?

Here's just one case of "how dare they! they're screwing it up for everyone" that's playing out around the world today... Folks, there will be some ugly stuff during the meltdown. Be careful out there homesellers! Extra credit if you get the photo.

Ashburn, Va.: I’m so mad at my neighbor. I bought my new home here in Ashburn last summer and plan to sell it next year (after holding two years to avoid taxes) to make a nice return on my investment.

The problem is my neighbor is trying to sell his house (very similar to mine) right now and he keeps lowering his asking price. Each time he lowers his price, I see my potential profits next year getting squashed.

Doesn’t he realize he’s hurting the comps for all of his neighbors by doing this? I don’t think he is acting very “neighborly” by doing this. I want to say something to him and tell him he should stop putting his interests ahead of his neighbors.

Its people like him who are ruining the market for the rest of us. If he would just refuse to lower his price, we could maintain our comps and everyone would benefit. What can I do to stop him?


Kirstin Downey: Wow. Interesting question. There’s nothing you can do. It’s his house, of course. It’s frustrating, to be sure. One word of advice: Don’t resort to violence.

70 comments:

Anonymous said...

Snake Plissken is da man! You know, in some condo co-ops the board controls the sale price of condos. Condo owners don't have freedom to sell their units for any price. Suxx, huh?

Anonymous said...

"Doesn’t he realize he’s hurting the comps for all of his neighbors by doing this? I don’t think he is acting very “neighborly” by doing this. I want to say something to him and tell him he should stop putting his interests ahead of his neighbors."

like the seller WANTS to take less than he can possibly get? this shows some people still think the SELLER gets to dictate what a house sells for...duh, clue, it's the person with the money who sets the price

jeesh..can Americans get any dumber?

stuckinthecity said...

Doesn’t he realize he’s hurting the comps for all of his neighbors by doing this? I don’t think he is acting very “neighborly” by doing this. I want to say something to him and tell him he should stop putting his interests ahead of his neighbors.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Joe Logic said...

If I'm the seller I'd just tell the neighbor that yeah, I'm selling at any price I can get because I want to hurt the comps. I'm hoping that my sale is the final straw that causes the swift, catastropic collapse in house prices in this area. Oh, so you selling next year? I'll be back around to get my 50% off firesale discount. Have a nice day.

I feel ya said...

My dad listed his house one day before the neighbor across the street. Neither knew of the others intention of selling. Houses would pretty much be appraised at similar values. My dad is listed 20% lower than the neighbor. I'm assuming that not only is the neighbor is pissed, but he's probably trying to come up with any justification of why his house is worth more or my dad's worth less.

However, neither house is selling. No biggie both were bought over 20 years ago and weren't purchased as "investments".

I told pops to sell a year ago.

I've been showing him HP for almost a year now.

I tell him that he STILL needs to lower his price.

Maybe he'll start to understand, maybe he won't.

Whatever.

Mort said...

Escape from crapbox mortgage hell. Abandon all hope.

kitchenstove said...

Snake Plisskin!!!! Lol, but Snake wouldn't have bought during the Boom. His luck is too good for that.

Anonymous said...

"jeesh..can Americans get any dumber?"

Gawd I hope not.

Anonymous said...

Shepple don't understand economics

keith said...

The new hatfield vs. the mccoys, coming to a neighborhood near you

Anonymous said...

BWA HA HA HA!! This reminds of a comment I read on craigslist about a year ago. It was from someone selling (or rather trying to sell) his home. He posted a message saying if everyone just keepr prices up, prices will stay up. Only way prices fall is if we don't all stick together. Yeah no problem, just get all 30,000 homeowners to stick together, collude to keep prices up and you'll be OK.

I swear some people have no sense of reality.

Anonymous said...

OMG, how arrogant, self centered & egotistical. How is he going to benefit by keeping the price up & not get a buyer just for the sake of your house's value. Are you going to make his mortgage payments? Its financial survival. Just blame the realtwhore who obviously gave you bad advice to buy at such a high price and/or his realtwhore who's advising him to lower his price. And on that note:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2007-06-08-realtor-usat_N.htm

After reading this I was so broken up that these poor hard working parasites are having a tough time making a living now after 5+ years of easy money. Huh!! Justice baby!!

Anonymous said...

Keith, you're so negative, da Bush jr is going to contract Plissken to come give you a headful of noogies.

Anonymous said...

"Doesn’t he realize he’s hurting the comps for all of his neighbors by doing this?"

HA!

Just wait til the banks, with no incentive to hold foreclosed properties whatsoever, lead the market down with firesales galore! That's when distressed homedebtors will strike the match and have a bonfire...

Smokey Bill said...

Looks like we may be at the tipping point –
Interest rates going up: Check
World stock markets tanking: Check
Housing prices under tremendous pressure: Check

Could peak oil be next?

I’m just glad I live in a recession proof area.

My favorite quote from the chat: “There’s nothing you can do.”

tim73 said...

Next year this neighbor will say:

"Why is my lawyer taking my house, my wife and my car?! It is not NICE!"

2009: "Why are those other homeless persons so rude to me?!"

2010: "This garbage bin is ALL MINE! ALL MINE! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!"

Jay from NH said...

First of all... he bought this house to flip it as an investment. How is doing that "neighborly" welcome to the investing game...

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

I can imagine that it could get testy when you are screwing the comps for everyone else if you are a flipper. If you have been in your home for years with a traditional mortgage, and you veiw it as you should, then no big deal.

Condos will be oh so ugly folks. South FL is a good indication of just how terrible things will get. They already have too damn many units sitting with tens of thousands set to hit the market over the next year to 18 months.

Anonymous said...

When local media reports this, can we say the crash is officially mainstream?

http://www.klas-
tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6628798

More and more people keep trying to sell and the prices keep going down. For people like Mike Fitzwilliams who bought two years ago and suddenly have to sell, it means big losses. Nine months ago, he wasn’t willing to take a $9,000 loss. Now, he’s looking at offers $40,000 below what he paid for his home. Losses he may have to pay off with credit cards to try to avoid foreclosure.

The Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors said that people who are selling or thinking about selling need to look at what their homes were worth in 2004 and then start to go down from there.

UNLV’s midyear economic outlook shows people are spending less, construction is falling and housing permits plummeting in Southern Nevada. Schwer says the housing downturn could last one to four years


HA HA HA!! 2004 prices is a good start. Sure if you want to sell at 2003 prices, 2004 listing will work. And you better hurry because in 6 months it will be 2002 pricing.

And 1 to 4 years...hmmm I'll put my money (this is LV after all) on the 4 years there Mr. Schwer.

Anonymous said...

We are starting to get short sales here in Colorado Springs. One of the ladies at work was resigned to the fact they would have to wait till next year to sell because a neighbor sold cheaply. Took everything I had to not say try 15 years.

Sequoia512

Anonymous said...

'jeesh..can Americans get any dumber?'

Yes. Check back next month....year...decade. This planet has been getting dumber by the year since the late 80's/early 90's. The main problem is the lowest IQ's are multiplying at a faster rate than those with brains. You see, if you have a brain, you realize that you can't have 5 kids and maintain a high quality of life unless you were born into $.

In about 50 years, there will actually be walking zombies on the surface of the planet. We are close already...just visit your local wal-mart for verification.

westwest888 said...

For anyone unfamiliar with the area, Ashburn, VA is about 40 miles from downtown Washington, DC. It's bordered by the Potomac River and about a billion arces of farm land. It has convenient highway access, however not much distinguishes it from the empty land right next to it...Except that Toll Brothers and the gang strip builds 3000 "luxury" homes at a time. Surprisingly, most of the construction is $400,000 townhouses. Call me crazy, but who wants to live in an attached townhouse 40 miles from a city? A commute to Washington at 8:30AM would take you about 90 minutes in stop and go traffic. There's also lots of jet fuel in the country air on stagnant days from Dulles Airport. You want culture? Not there. Big box store, chain restaurant, repeat same store 5 miles up the road.

Pic1
http://tinyurl.com/37yr57

Pic2 - blank canvas for Toll
http://tinyurl.com/3x9e3l

Metroplexual said...

I love the idiotic "this is the real price and with yesterday's entry about the house flipper wanting to know where the next buyers are that will hold for two years and sell. I hope Your ARM reset feels good.

BTW that movie showed me "The Importance of Being Earnest Borgnine"

Ka said...

"this shows some people still think the SELLER gets to dictate what a house sells for...duh, clue, it's the person with the money who sets the price"

No, that is not true. The market sets the price, and the market consists of both the buyer and the seller. For example, I am not planning to move. If someone offers me 20% above list price for my home, I still won't sell. Does this mean the me, the BUYER, sets the price?

The Thinker said...

Listen, there is a bit of truth to what the neighbor is saying. If home seller collude on pricing they can continue to gauge the public. I believe that this thinking is partly responsible for slowing the rate at which prices should be falling.

A sale is made when the price a home owner is willing to sell for matches the price a buyer is willing to pay.

If all of the seller collude to keep prices high then prices will stay high. However, any economics professor will tell you that cartels cannot be sustained for long because the incentive to sell for a lower price and make the sale is too great.

Todd Tarson said...

One must price a home or property to sell, not to protect the neighborhood.

It is easy to spot the 'real' sellers from the others. Just not enough of them... for now.

Anonymous said...

>> Doesn’t he realize he’s hurting the comps for all of his neighbors by doing this? I don’t think he is acting very “neighborly” by doing this.

And I suppose this moron, assuming he/she sells their house at a profit, is going to do the "neighborly" thing and share their profit with everyone on the street?

I hope it DOES come to violence...

gWK said...

Escape From New York, Kurt Russell

Anonymous said...

Bagholders will be pissed as the bags are worth less and less.

I rent a NJ shore house with friends. It is a big twin ugly box on the bay built in the 80's. The idiot owner on the one side is listing his house $600K higher than newer homes on the bay 2.4M vs 1.8M. Good luck finding a sucker to buy a house that is 20 years older for another $600K.

devestment said...

This is not my problem. I sold all my sh@tbox debit-traps near the top, while people still wanted them.

Adam said...

Lovely, as the same dynamic that created the bubble (GREED, AKA "I'm looking out for #1!") will also play out on the way down to the same end...

Pop said...

"What can I do to stop him?"

The answer is obvious, buy his house from him and DOUBLE your profits!!

fish said...

Its people like him who are ruining the market for the rest of us. If he would just refuse to lower his price, we could maintain our comps and everyone would benefit. What can I do to stop him?

If stupidity was a crime this guy would merit the electric chair!

George Butler said...

Anon 8:32 AM said:
"Shepple don't understand economics"
--------------------
Anons don't understand spelling!

Anonymous said...

Since when is a 2 year hold and flip a neighbor?

Guess who really F'ed it up for the neighborhood.

Anonymous said...

". . . he should stop putting his interests ahead of his neighbors. Its people like him who are ruining the market for the rest of us. If he would just refuse to lower his price, we could maintain our comps and everyone would benefit."

The neighbor should tell this selfish dim-bulb that he can buy the house - and at full price! That way the comps in the neighborhood will be maintained and he can continue to live in his "bubble" world of illusion. After all, he would have a great investment 'cause real estate ALWAYS goes up!

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."

Sungirlie41

Anonymous said...

Everybody was kung fu fighting.

Carl Douglas

Anonymous said...

Many of my ex-neighbors curse my name for ruining their comps. All the tools selling were listed for $550K - $600K. I listed for $519K, sold for $504K and paid all buyer costs and paid off the SID of $6K so I really sold for about $492K. I bought for $278K so hell yeah I'll undercut my neighbors to take my proceeds and run.

But holy shit I had some angry neighbors showing up saying how can I possibly list so little. It will drive down everyone's value, blah blah blah. I told them a) it's none of their business what I sell my home for and b) if they truly think their home is worth an extra $80K, well then someone will buy it. Of course it was like talking to a tree.

Most of these asshats also bought in the $270s or $280s when we all moved in together. They've already almost doubled their money at my asking price. Yet they are so stubborn and greedy. Maybe they are all HELOCed up and can't sell for less? I don't know and I don't care.

I put my interests first and quite honestly could not care less what happens to them.

K.W. - Southern Ca. said...

The entire housing scheme has been based on massive amounts of greed, ego and self-interest.

Don't expect ethical behaviour - and it will only get worse in the coming months and years ahead.

Sojourner said...

"You're the Duke of New York! A Number 1!"

My ex-neighbors wanted to murder me after I sold fall 2006.

Stephen said...

My wife's cousin, also in Ashburn, has run into the same problem.

Job relocate, has to sell, two neighbors destroyed comps around the same time her house went on the market.

She has a hard time lowering her price as far as her neighbors have; it will put her underwater.

Too bad. Nice young family. They don't seem, to realize that it's getting harder and harder to sell as time goes by. House has been on the market for nearly a year now.

I guess everyone is wrong who said the federal $ in Maryland, D.C. and NoVa will prevent a housing crash here.

Anonymous said...

This is an example of our "entitlement society". Talk about self-centered -- everyone is supposed ignore their own interests and cater to that owner's interest who thinks he's ENTITLED to make a profit by selling his house.

Unbelievable.

marinite2 said...

I bought my new home here in Ashburn last summer and plan to sell it next year (after holding two years to avoid taxes) to make a nice return on my investment.

And that right there is the problem with the housing markets across this country. People have been officially encouraged by the government to speculate on housing.

Anonymous said...

".....he should stop putting his interests ahead of his neighbors."


Thank you commrade.

I swear modern americans are nothing more than a bunch of commie fools.

Don't like a free market?

Move to China.

Sheesh

turdly said...

If meat in a meat market is getting to it's 'must sell' date, the meat gets discounted 50%.

While houses do not spoil [however, mortgages do, and ARM's even came 'date stamped' just like a gallon of milk], you profit however you can profit.

I don't care if houses sell or not, just so those nasty 'no down payment, 480 fico, crack ho pet store worker says she makes 8k monthly' people can't buy anymore. They can't manage a cell phone bill what makes us think they can manage a household?

Live within your means, look at it as a home not an investment, and carry on. Or look at it as an investment and quit putting emotion into an investment strategy.

Anonymous said...

Tell him his neighbor is doing this just to piss him off!

Anonymous said...

your comps have driven my taxes and insurance rates sky high in a neighborhood i struggled to make livable and selfsuficent and planned to retire in because it was low ante/low cost of keep...to hell with you

Anonymous said...

HOA only let cash buyers and the prices fell 90%

Anonymous said...

"Listen, there is a bit of truth to what the neighbor is saying. If home seller collude on pricing they can continue to gauge the public."

Not according to Game Theory of economics, especially because of asymmetrical information within the sector. Sorry, my managerial economics class from college still haunts me.

Anonymous said...

'jeesh..can Americans get any dumber?'

Oh yeah, much more. Wait until they let the amnesty bill pass and vote Secret Society's Giuliana-warmonger into office. Kiss your jobs bye-bye!

Anonymous said...

Keith Plisskin? I thought you were dead!

Shoot a cop With a gun The Big Apple is plenty of fun Stab a priest With a fork And you'll spend your vacation in New York Rob a bank Take a truck You can get here by stealing a buck This is bliss It's a lark Honey, everyone's coming to New York! No more Yankees Strike the word from your ears Play the roulette There's no more opera at the Met This is hell This is fate But now this is your home and it's great So rejoice Pop a cork Honey, everyone's coming to New York!
------------------------------

Revised lyrics to HP anyone?

mreynolds

Film Flam said...

Anon 1:05 noted that in general IQs are dropping because the idiots are reproducing at a higher rate than the "smart" people.

This is the basic premise of the movie Idiocracy -- Highly recomended for a non-intellectual 6-pack Saturday night rental. Even highbrow film folks will have to admit that the first few minutes are funny.

Partial Spoiler -- the HS football star announces to the three young hotties "I'm gona f#ck all y'all"

Anonymous said...

My neighbor has been trying to sell his carpbox which is smaller than my crapbox since January. 2 escrows fellout: first guy didnt qulaify, second guy didnt have a greencard! He has since dropped his price from 450k to 400k. I hinted I might sell my home too and he freaked out saying it would hurt his sale. I just listed it for 380k BAM! He flipped and I found out he NEEDS to get the 400 as he sucked the HELOC-cock and owes an additional 100k to the bank. I on the oterhand never refied or HELOCD so I can take a lower bid. I am not a greedy bastard!! But boy my neighbor hates my friken ass right now.

Phineous said...

@pop

Great comment! Buy it yourself and double your money!

When I park cars in my yard for game days I try and get the street to charge $15. The street closer to the stadium always asks $20, so $15 isn't out of line. Well some jackass always shows up charging $10 and we have to drop our prices. We still make money, and people get a good deal, but it ain't neighborly!

dean said...

Well some jackass always shows up charging $10 and we have to drop our prices. We still make money, and people get a good deal, but it ain't neighborly!

Pay him $10 per spot yourself, then re-sell those spots for $15.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
My neighbor has been trying to sell his carpbox which is smaller than my crapbox since January. 2 escrows fellout: first guy didnt qulaify, second guy didnt have a greencard!


I thik you're full of shit. A green card is not a requirement for buying a home or qualifying for a mortgage.

turdly said...

Heloc then= Hey Everybody! Lots of cash!
[bought the Hummer while working at a pet store cleaning cages]

Heloc now=Hey everybody! Lost our cash!
[let the Hummer go repo]

Heloc soon= [hey Everybody! leggo our cart!
[homeless and giving Hummers]

Sad but true, that's all I got for a Friday afternoon.

Phineous said...

@Dean

Why didn't I think of that? That's exactly what the comment I praised said to do!

jvazjr said...

In other words you tool: the guy didnt have a greencard which also meant he didnt have a social security # which meant they cant pull his credit which means NO LOAN. You dipshit.

Anonymous said...

The quoted article is nearly a year old you idiots.

tim73 said...

I SAID back in the 17th century that colonial backwaters just could not make it alone!

Stealing land from Indians is never a good idea. King George just gave up too easily! Well, fine!

Anonymous said...

Grandma PKK here-

So you bought your house and were
going to turn right around and
collect a profit.

When I was little (1950's- a time
with it's own issues), people bought
a house as a home, planned to live
there-- usually long enough to pay
it off, and that was when mortgages
were not even 30 year as a rule...
A union newspaper of that time
argued against the 30 year mortgage
because of the total cost of the
package. I was a place to dream
of years of seeing a family grow.
I doubt that anyone ever thought
of it's final value or salivated
over a huge profit in the near
future...Granted, people could
stay in a job, and maybe the rush
for real estate gold is actually
based on uncertain futures for
employment...

Did you ever think this urge to
see the prices keep up not just
escalation but rapid escalation,
was at it's core signs of something
going really wrong, and that you
might be harming someone's ability
to afford shelter yourself? Your
neighbor is "harming" your
RIGHT to PROFIT????? How many
inches out is that very thought
on that branch.....

My Dad, always told me to dare
to be different; actually I had no
choice in our family...he said
pay attention to mass behavior and
be very wary of it...

Anonymous said...

Wait until the 20 million uneducated illiterate illegal aliens get amnesty and bring all of their relatives here. America will become the next Venezuela as the toilet-scrubbing serfs rise up and vote in their La Raza Communist strongman. The dumbass white liberals will all be voted out of office by their new racist brown brothers while the whites keep voting for conservative whites and blacks will vote for their own. The white liberals will kill themselves will amnesty.

Polar Bear said...

I think this question was planted to mock homoaners.

Anonymous said...

Your neighbors house is worth what people will pay for it. If nobody will pay what you think it is worth, it isn't worth that much. If you think that it should sell for a higher price... buy it yourself... that'll keep your comps from falling... you'd be an idiot... but you'll save your neighborhood... until your next neighbor wants to sell!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

The quoted article is nearly a year old you idiots.

June 08, 2007 10:33 PM
-----------
The quoted article is 10 months old and at that moment the bubble burst was finally hitting home. The "Fall" Selling season of 06 was just that, the beginning of the fall of the RE bubble. Thus the article is a pro pro.

The price cutter was hanging ten and had foresight to do what needed to be done to get out then before the fall was too steep in 07. I did the same thing after my realtwhore agent told me that the Fall selling season would get my place sold for what I wanted after my other deal fell through. Guess what he was right, but is was my price that had to fall to get it sold. I was the one that realized the market was in the toilet and pushed the cuts to get the damn thing sold, not that moron.

Keyser Soze said...

{"Listen, there is a bit of truth to what the neighbor is saying. If home seller collude on pricing they can continue to gauge the public."

Not according to Game Theory of economics, especially because of asymmetrical information within the sector. Sorry, my managerial economics class from college still haunts me.}

John Nash of 'A Beautiful Mind' fame.

Anonymous said...

"Great comment! Buy it yourself and double your money!"

Great, all that we need now is homedebtors doing "housing cost averaging".

Anonymous said...

Hey, if your neighbors don't want you to sell low and "wreck the comps", then maybe they should join up and buy your house at the price they want to preserve?

Anonymous said...

"Great comment! Buy it yourself and double your money!"


Isn't that kind of like doubling down in game of chance?

Oh, that's right, speculating in housing is gambling and in gambling there are winners and losers - I forgot.