Can someone give me one good reason besides oil why we're still in Iraq, refereeing a civil war, spending well over $1 Trillion US taxpayer dollars, with no exit strategy and no hope of "winning", and losing more and more innocent young American lives every day?
HP supports the troops. Bring them home to their families. Now. And leave the Iraqis to deal with Iraq. And Bush to deal with his personal demons and oil buddies.
Contact you incompetent, corrupt and ineffective congressmen and women here. And for god's sake why aren't people camped out in front of the White House every day? Has America truly come to the point that nobody gives a damn?
46 comments:
Terrorists don't exist.
9/11 was a hoax.
Al Qaeda is an illusion.
The USS cole was bombed Israel.
WTC 1993 never happened, all an MSM conspiracy.
Everyone knows that.
In conclusion we must do as Ron Paul says, leave Iraq, close the borders, get rid of the military and all will be well.
I think it is so we can be closer to Iran. We are goining over there next!
It's to keep the Iraqi oil (some of the best and largest fields) in the ground to keep supply low and prices and profits high.
Also to spend money on bombs and high tech weapons that don't help the troops on the ground.
I mean Jez, the poor guy are still using M-16 varients...in the DESERT! That crap didn't work in the jungle 50 years ago! Of the $1T, they could not spend a fraction on designing a better more rugged combat long gun????
Makes me sick.
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BAQOUBA, Iraq (AP)
- An American soldier stands at the side of an Iraqi highway, puts his AK-47 on fully automatic and pulls the trigger.
Within seconds the assault rifle has blasted out 30 rounds. Puffs of dust dance in the air as the bullets smack into the scrubland dirt. Test fire complete.
U.S. troops in Iraq may not have found weapons of mass destruction, but they're certainly getting their hands on the country's stock of Kalashnikovs - and, they say, they need them.
----------------------
Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the world’s most popular assault rifle, says that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are using his invention in preference to their own weapons, proving that his gun is still the best.
“Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That’s the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it,” the 86-year-old gunmaker told a weekend news conference in Moscow.
“In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used [Kalashnikov] AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly,” he said.
Here are two reasons why we can't just cut and run: Reason #1. If we left, there would most certainly be an ethnic cleansing (aka genocide) of massive proportions that we, the US and Britain, directly engineered as direct result of our invasion in 2003. So, yes, innocent blood will be in our hands. Can you imagine the outcry if, for example, we invaded Mexico because of a tyrant, then civil war ensued, and we left, leaving an ethnic cleansing in their country? Can you imagine the outcry of Mexicans everywhere? Is it any different if they are Iraqi's. Isn't an Iraqi baby just as worthy as a Mexican baby? Reason #2 If we left, would it matter who took over after all the bloodshed? What if he ends up being worse than Saddam? What if he powers with Iran and they really begin a project of weapons of mass destruction?
If either of these two reasons doesn't convince you, either you are #1. heartless and racist or #2. you dont have a strategic mind or #3. You are all of the above
That's not a meat grinder. This is a meat grinder.
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There is no other reason and Iran is next.
Has America truly come to the point that nobody gives a damn?
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In a word...
YES
RayNLA
well we are in iraq to give the iraqis something called iraqi freedom. they came up with that excuse when they couldn't find any wmd's.
we are building permanent bases there now in order to guard the pipelines to israel.
we are in iraq, to do as much damage as possible to one of israel's enemies. that is the only reason we are there.
I am a conservative who was against the war from the beginning.
I was afraid we were sticking our heads into a hornets' nest that would cause massive destabilization, if not outright chaos in the region; that would cost us thousands of lives without achieving the government's stated goals; that would contribute to our country's insolvency; and that would serve as a global rallying cry for Al Qaeda. Unfortunately, those fears have largely come true.
The response has been to "stay the course. Timetables will hand victory to our terrorist enemies. We will be in Iraq for the next 50 years."
What has to be understood is that time is working against us.
1) Support in the Iraqi parliament itself is eroding. Three weeks ago the Iraqi parliament past a petition/non-binding resolution to call for a timetable for U.S. withdrawal. Two years ago such a petition would never have gotten off the ground.
2) The Iraqi oil workers union, 30,000 strong, is fomenting growing resistance to U.S. pressure on the Iraqi parliament to privatize oil production. The Iraqis see that U.S. imposed "benchmark" as an oil grab.
3) The U.S. will be bankrupt long before we get to the year 2057 at our current levels of borrowing and spending. We don't even have ten years to get our financial house in order. Al Qaeda leadership knew this and saw Iraq as an opportunity to bleed the U.S. as they did to the Soviets in Afghanistan.
The Iraqis wanted the U.S. in Iraq as long as our presence there meant relative peace, stability, national autonomy and a chance to put their national wealth, oil, to work for their benefit. None of that is remotely close to becoming a reality. So it seems delusional to expect that more time is the answer that Americans should accept.
You Americans destroyed that country and have created the mess that is now there - and now you want to just run away?
"Can someone give me one good reason besides oil why we're still in Iraq"
We are still there because arrogant people like (Bush, Cheney & etc.) never admit that they have been wrong. Bush prefers to sacrifice our troop lives at the alter of his arrogance and snobbishness.
I'm truly amazed how little this country has protested this war. Yes Keith, people don't care enough to break away fro the cable,
mall, SUV's and home decorating to
save our poor soldiers. Im amazed we made the exact same mistake as Vietnam and people still can't believe we lost this war. Don't fund the war and the troops ill stop fighting an come home. Enough is enough. Many shames on us for letting go on as business as usall.
Joey in NH
1. yeah - its called Israel and the entire apparatus of zionist influence in the US
In their heart of hearts, at least half of the pro-war people knew it was about oil. And they thought that was OK---as long as they got cheap gas out of it.
Reality:
Gasoline is hitting records--and so is real, world tradable, oil i.e. Brent---at over $70/bbl. Gasoline is now sustained higher over the 1980 peak, even adjusting for inflation. Back then it was a small spike---now it is sustained and isn't going back down.
Consequence:
Bush at all time ratings low. Only the religiously deluded thirtypercenters are left. In a just world, Bush would have 3% approval, like Boris Yeltsin did.
Background:
The commonly reported West Texas Intermediate (NYMEX) is no longer a good benchmark since it is priced in landlocked Oklahoma and has pricing anomalies because of localized screwups in pipelines and refineries.
By contrast "Brent" oil (London IPE) is world-deliverable by tanker and more accurately reflects total global demand wherever it may be (i.e. China).
Brent to WTI price spread is at nearly all time highs---it used to be the other way because Brent oil is not as good (light sweet) as standard WTI.
Do you hear this from the chirping bobbleheads on CNBC?
"Here are two reasons why we can't just cut and run:
1 Chaos
2 who's next?"
There's one really good reason to bug out:
1. Everybody there hates everybody else, but the one thing they agree on is that they hate us and want us out and will kill us and never listen to us as long as we're there.
The rest of the strategic thinking has to consider relations to the rest of the middle east. Assume that Iraq is fucked no matter what.
They know they don't want us now, but the civil war is inevitable whenever we leave. Now, next year, 10 years from now, 100 years from now.
We're gonna get the blame for it anyway, so just get on with it. And then the sooner we're out the sooner we can start to try to make things better.
it's easy to be anti-US when there's an occupation. It will be harder when the Arabs are getting afraid of Iran once again.
IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY NOW,WHATS THE BIG DEAL THATS WHAT ITS FOR
14 more into the grinder
BAGHDAD - The U.S. military said Sunday that 14 American soldiers were killed over the past three days, including four in a single roadside bombing and another who was struck by a suicide bomber while on a foot patrol.
I agree with Ron Paul on the economy. But he is wrong on foreign policy.
Here is the real reason Bin Ladin attacked the US:
1. US military presence in Saudi Arabia to defend against Saddam. Check.
2. Oil was $17 dollars a barrel in the 90s. Check.
3. Oil was so low, Saudi government could not subsidize its population. Check.
4. Population riots and looks for scapegoats in the 90s. Bin Ladin gets popular. Check.
5. US attacked because oil was low and presence in ME because of Saddam.
Thats my take. But I agree with Ron Paul about the idiotic fiat money situation.
14 dead GIs, you anti-American communists should be out celebrating.
You will quickly ruin this blog with non housing market related political stories and rhetoric.
Somehow I think our government has educated the public masses well on how to borrow and spend. Can't afford something, get another credit card, take another home equity loan, DON'T WORRY, BE HAPPY!
Since Americans haven't really suffered any serious effects from its titanic annual deficit and its national debt, Americans blithely think that all is well and always will be well.
Same for peak oil, unlimited legal/illegal immigration, overpopulation, and government without representation as well as other things. As far as Americans are concerned there is no such thing as critical mass. There are no such things as Ponzi schemes (at least when perpetrated by a government) and recessions and depressions can never happen again since we never mismanage anymore and we refuse to learn from history.
To all the horribly ignorant that keeping on cheering, "Win won for the gipper", you would quickly change your tune if the costs of that war were coming DIRECTLY out of your pocket. You would be yelling for withdrawal within minutes as soon as you knew the bill. This country can't afford any more conflicts PERIOD.
Ron Paul for non-intervention policies, and a slim hope for an America with a future. (The masses are too ignorant to understand economics, got to have someone in office that is honest and does understand.)
Here anonytrolls check this video on lethal cold wave in Argentina.
http://www.nowpublic.com/lethal_cold_wave_in_argentina
As we continue to waste energy as if supplies were limitless, is it inconceivable to imagine that supplies might run short some day?
I'm truly amazed how little this country has protested this war. Yes Keith, people don't care enough to break away fro the cable,
mall, SUV's and home decorating to
save our poor soldiers
yes it is true. but the major question is just how long can this go on? i mean the nation is dying. the borders are open and third world type are pooring in. the economy is going in the tank, etc, etc.......just how long can this go on? does anyone have a guess? bob chapman said one time that it will continue as long as they want it to. but i would think that eventually all the manipulations, etc, will sooner or later become less effective in what they are trying to do..whatever that is...
Whatever your opinions on Iraq,
we owe those who are maimed for
life proper care and support.
If we can't do this,
what are we worth ?
Hindsight is 20-20 I suppose, but I would like to see a an amendment that precludes us from entering into any act of war or occupation without first instituting a draft.
Do that and then we'll see how busy/naive/"on the fence" citizens are about the use of our military power for future wars.
PS Hey the use of handles seems to be increasing, nice to see and definitely makes it easier to pick out the trash trolls from the treasure.
>...spending well over $1 trillion US taxpayer dollars...
I'm no economist, but you gotta realize something here. The vast majority of that cash goes into the pockets of American working class folks, soldiers. Not the same as sending money out of the country.
It gets spent in local economies across america creating jobs and tax revenue. Also most of the military, its equipment and its infrastructure are already bought and paid for as a necessity to have at the ready.
As much as I would love to camp out at the White House and protest this war, I have an unrelenting urge to go to work so I can somehow survive the impending Great Depression that Bush & his beloved fat cats have set into place. Maybe I'm being too pessimisstic, or buying into a lotta conspiracy theories, but I have a bad, bad feeling that the effects that this admin has left on our economy and moral is going to devastate our great country.
still in Germany
still in Japan
still in Korea
still in Cuba
still in Afghanistan
still in the Balkans
were even in former Soviet satellite states. What makes you think were ever gonna leave Iraq?
the reason is oil, we are in iraq not only to have control but also to make sure the Chinese don't get it. i read somewhere that an aircraft carrier uses something like 10,000 barrels of oil A DAY
anon: FYI
All U.S. aircraft carriers are nuclear. they do not use oil.
Anonymous said...
Terrorists don't exist.
9/11 was a hoax.
Al Qaeda is an illusion.
The USS cole was bombed Israel.
WTC 1993 never happened, all an MSM conspiracy.
Everyone knows that.
In conclusion we must do as Ron Paul says, leave Iraq, close the borders, get rid of the military and all will be well.
Ah the sarcasm of imbeciles. Yes, we are in Iraq to spread the benefits of Democracy. So we kill 500k of them (according to our sources) torture a few. We are there also cause Sadam had wmds. Those darn Iranians must be crazy for trying to get nukes, after all the nation next to them just got invaded by a country that wants to invade them. We all know we did nothing to provoke the terrorists, they just hate our freedom.... God so many Morons just do not get it--well that is why they are Morons and why there is no hope at all for our nation--going down its really idiocrcay!
its not different this time either said...
still in Germany
still in Japan
still in Korea
still in Cuba
still in Afghanistan
still in the Balkans
were even in former Soviet satellite states. What makes you think were ever gonna leave Iraq?
we are never going to leave. all this posturing by the politicians is just activities done to fool the masses....
The real trouble with war (modern war) is that it
gives no one a chance to kill the right people.
-Ezra Pound 1885-1972, American Poet, Critic
I'm no economist, but you gotta realize something here. The vast majority of that cash goes into the pockets of American working class folks, soldiers. Not the same as sending money out of the country.
It gets spent in local economies across america creating jobs and tax revenue. Also most of the military, its equipment and its infrastructure are already bought and paid for as a necessity to have at the ready.
well what kind of country is that? if the only thing we do is make war stuff, then what does that say about us? we used to be the best at everything we did, but no more. free trade is a joke and a lie. there is no such thing as free trade. all that it does is destroy the working class and make wages go down in order to compete with slave labor elsewhere. now we see them destroying our automobile industry. a private equity firm bought out gm last week i think. so now they will screw those people out of their retirements , mark my words....
this country never was about free trade and capitalism.....
I'm no economist, but you gotta realize something here. The vast majority of that cash goes into the pockets of American working class folks, soldiers. Not the same as sending money out of the country.
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Ha you brainwashed, right wing, conservative type who can't think for themselves and simply parrots fox speaking points!
Most of the money goes to the fat cat vuah-buddy corporations that don't pay their fair share of the tax burden. I know this because moveon says it is so.
aircraft carrier uses something like 10,000 barrels of oil A DAY
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I am not a military wonk but aren't all of our carriers nuke powered?
wawawa,FYI
The carrier's planes aren't nuclear, they go through a boatload of fuel. (pun intended)
Useless trivia: At the height of the cold war the Air Force used more fuel than the Navy every year. 24K gallons of fuel only keeps a B-52 in the air for about 8 hours. The same 24K will fuel a ship for a day or more depending on speed. Thay same 24K would run my Mazda for about 48 years at 15K miles a year.
An anon said:
there is no such thing as free trade. all that it does is destroy the working class and make wages go down in order to compete with slave labor
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Another union slob afraid that his $30 an hour job will be replaced by a $3 an hour Indian. Well too bad. I welcome as much trade as I can get.
You should never have been making $30 an hour to begin with. You have no skill, no education and contribute nothing. Only reason you ever made $30 an hour was due to your union thugs forcing mgmt into paying you.
Now that someone in China will work for 90% off, you are finished and about damn time.
So go ahead and vote for Ron Paul or Billary or some other socialist asshole if it makes you feel good. Won't matter one bit though, your life as you know it is over.
Ha you brainwashed, right wing, conservative type who can't think for themselves and simply parrots fox speaking points!
Most of the money goes to the fat cat vuah-buddy corporations that don't pay their fair share of the tax burden. I know this because moveon says it is so.
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Your forgot to mention that they (the evil right wing corporations) also use that money to kill puppies and kittens.
we are still there in order for W to finalize the NEW WORLD ORDER. Our troops will never leave. Border Patrol officers are being deployed to Iraq. W has signed a martial law decree. UN peacekeepers will be deployed in the USA when W calls for martial law and our troops will not be able to do a thing.
israel. Our jewish masters are still enjoying the kosher slaughter of the filthy goyim.
Keith,
We aren't about to leave the ME. It's all about oil, and we and our allies should just say so. The money we have spent in Iraq should be returned to America with interest. We will take oil please.
Bitter Renter said...
Most of the armed conflict in the world involves Israel or the US.
Better to nuke the RNC headquarters in the US and the Likud party in Israel if you want less problems in the world.
I don't know that. You see I believe that Islam is a cult of death. First they brainwash your poor sorry ass so that you submit totally, and then it's a whirlwind shopping spree for a new fancy belt which they tell you will magically send you to Allah and 70 he-goats, er, I mean virgins.
Anonymous said...
we are still there in order for W to finalize the NEW WORLD ORDER. Our troops will never leave. Border Patrol officers are being deployed to Iraq. W has signed a martial law decree. UN peacekeepers will be deployed in the USA when W calls for martial law and our troops will not be able to do a thing.
June 04, 2007 2:16 PM
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Pleas tell me you are being sarcastic. I refuse to believe anyone is that idiotic to think what you just typed.
anon said...
Another union slob afraid that his $30 an hour job will be replaced by a $3 an hour Indian. Well too bad. I welcome as much trade as I can get.
It's not just low skill jobs that are being outsourced to India. Accounting, medical, software development, and other techie work is being oursourced as well. Be careful what you wish for.
Fortunately, there is still plenty of work for the skilled and educated in the U.S. - the skilled and educated from India.
honica jewinski said...
honica jewinski.......man what a name.........ha ha ha..
In answer to your question:
"Can someone give me one good reason besides oil why we're still in Iraq, refereeing a civil war, spending well over $1 Trillion US taxpayer dollars, with no exit strategy and no hope of "winning", and losing more and more innocent young American lives every day"?
Well I guess you haven't read The Creature From Jekyll Island, written by G. Edward Griffin.
Specifically, see the section titled "The Rothschild Formula".
- 2. All that is necessary, therefore, to ensure that a government will maintain or expand its debt is to involve it in war or the threat of war. The greater the threat and the more destructive the war, the greater the need for debt.
I hope this helps
U.S. intelligence chief says Russian spies at "Cold War levels"
12:51 | 07/ 06/ 2007
WASHINGTON, June 7 (RIA Novosti) - The United States national counterintelligence chief said the number of Russian agents operating in the country had reached "Cold War levels," but added that this was normal and would not affect bilateral relations. [Excerpt]
Looks like the yellow revolution is over in Russia. A new ICBM, a new cruise missile they say can penetrate any missile shield and their recent comments suggest we are now at Cold War II. Vlad is feeling his oats, and he's a KGB man to his very core for God's sake.
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