June 01, 2007

Columnist: Record gasoline prices great news for U.S.

I commented the other day that the only thing that'd get America off the crack is $10 gas. Mass transit, conservation, urban planning, energy policy, hybrids, alt fuels, the end of suburbia, you know the drill. It hurt America to have cheap gas a bit ago. Made us stupid. Time to get smart.


Meanwhile, look what's going in in Russia, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq and hell even Kazakhstan. It's all about oil folks, we're addicts, and yet we do nothing on the demand side. All we do is try to control the supply side, and we have failed.

Hurrah! Great news! When I filled up my car's gas tank yesterday, I paid an all-time record $3.41 a gallon, and experts are predicting that gasoline prices may soon reach $4 a gallon.

I can't wait!

I'm not kidding. I am more convinced than ever that unless gasoline prices rise above $4 a gallon, there won't be a nationwide uproar strong enough to force Washington to get serious about reducing the U.S. suicidal dependence on foreign oil.

Barring $4-a-gallon gasoline prices, America will not get serious about reducing toxic emissions that worsen global warming, and will continue to fund corrupt Middle Eastern kingdoms that deny basic civil rights to women and fund Islamic fundamentalist schools, some of which preach violence against innocent ''infidels'' in the name of Allah.

And, closer to home, without $4 a gallon gasoline, Washington will most likely continue filling the pockets of oil-rich tropical autocrats.

Venezuela's narcissist-Leninist President Hugo Chávez is a perfect example of U.S. oil-funded radicalism. When he was first elected in 1998 and oil prices were at $9 a barrel, Chávez was ridiculing critics who speculated that he would become a radical leftist. ''Me, a Communist?'' he asked reporters.

Today, with oil prices at more than $62 a barrel, Chávez ends his speeches proclaiming ''Socialism or Death!'' He claims that the United States is ''the cruelest, most terrible, most cynical, most murderous empire that has existed.'' And he chaperones Iranian Holocaust-denying President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad throughout Latin America.

Granted, the Bush administration will tell you that it is doing a lot to reduce America's oil consumption. In his recent State of the Union address, Bush laid plans to reduce U.S. gasoline usage by 20 percent over the next 10 years, among other things by increasing the supply of alternative fuels such as ethanol.

But Bush, a Texas oilman at heart, and the U.S. Congress, not immune to the car lobby, are far too timid in attacking the U.S. foreign oil addiction.

62 comments:

Tesla said...

I've often wondered why we don't use liquified coal. We must be pretty close to if not over the break-even point where the conversion makes sense financially. We've got HUGE amounts of coal in this country. I'd love the conversion: imagine the withering of the Islamic regimes once their gravy train ran out of steam! Of course it's probably politically impossible because of bullshit fears about CO2. [please spare me the anthropogenic global warming nonsense]

If prices keep rising other fuel options become more competitive, too... ethanol, electric cars, etc. I don't see any reason for doom or gloom here.

Frank said...

I hope in your heart you really aren't hoping for much higher gas prices. Each significant increase brings misery to individuals and families as inflation jumps ahead, business costs increase and employees are laid off, families are pressed by the inability to choose between gas to get to work and food to eat, etc.
Even worse, many people looking at gas price increases make bad decisions like buying a hybrid, which have massively higher end-to-end (e.g., full-life) energy consumption requirements than SUVs.
Finally, each price increase that is traced to increased oil costs (rather than refining bottlenecks or the price increases due to Ethanol) puts more money into the hands of religious fanatics that want the US dead.

keith said...

Frank - yes, I am rooting for higher gas prices and NO, higher gas prices do NOT mean more spending for families or businesses.

If families drove fuel-efficient cars (instead of SUVs and Hummers) or took public transportation, they would spend less than they do today even if gas prices went up. But they won't change their behavior unless gas prices do indeed go up

And if gas prices went to $10 a gallon (they're $8 / gallon here) maybe we'd concentrate more on the demand side of the equation versus our miserable failure concentrating on the supply side.

Think how many trillions of dollars we'd save if we didn't have to police the middle east.

So bring on $10 gas. Now.

Frank said...

Well, it's an interesting abstract argument. But the suicides, family implosions, and other forms of misery that will certainly result from personal and business failures linked to dramatically higher energy costs don't seem worth the personal smugness to me.

Anonymous said...

Keith,

About this public transportation you speak of..get real man. Unless you live in a downtown public transportation is a joke. Personally the closest bus stop to me is 2 miles away and I think that bus rs once every 30 mins or something like that.

However I am 100% OK with that. I don't wnat bus lines near me. I don't want the ghetto element having access to my part of town and I will pay $4 a gallon without a second thought to keep it like that.

keith said...

Voters won't demand public transportation until gas prices are permanently high

Get it?

Chicken and egg. Gotta have high gas prices before we can see positive change.

No pain, no gain.

keith said...

Frank - high gas prices will change behavior. I remember when I was a young lad starting out living in Boulder but working in Denver that when gas prices shot up during the first (of many) gulf war, instead of solo commuting in my car 60 miles a day, I simply walked to the bus stop and caught the direct commuter line into downtown.

If it wasn't for high prices, I wouldn't have changed my behavior. When they did come, I changed, and I was very glad I did.

Even when gas prices slid back down, I kept taking the bus. So much easier, faster, cheaper and stress-free.

If people are too stubborn, foolish or dumb to change along with the change in external events, then that's their fault.

But then again, you probably don't believe in evolution, eh?

Anonymous said...

Gas goes up, driving goes up as well.

"...with prices hovering near $3.40 a gallon, more Southern Californians took to the highways this year after many chose to stay home in 2006. Could it be that we're starting to get used to paying that much? I know, scary thought...."

No it is not a scary thought you moron. Just like nobody complained when their home values trippled in 10 years in SoCal, nobody should be bitching that the price of gas tripled as well.

I am so sick and tired of all this bullshit about gas price. Last time I checked there was nothing in the Constitution about the right to cheap gas. I am convinced that if the price of gas were never mentioned in the MSM nobody would care. However on a daily basis the MSM tells you to be mad as hell over gas prices. You hear that enough and eventually you think fuck yeah I AM mad as hell. How dare Exxon make a profit?

Meanwhile these dopes are reading the MSM news in the morning with their $5 Starbucks coffee that costs ten cents to make. That's OK, but paying $3 a gallon of gas, why that's highway robbery!!

The dumbing down of America continues.

Frank said...

Agreed that behaviour will change as gas prices increase. As a long-time bicycle commuter, I have noticed that more and more people are riding to work as gas prices have increased. I am just saying that that this will be an ugly transition from lower to higher costs with broad increases in misery.

On the other point, you are right - I do not believe in evolution, at least anymore. I mean really, look at the evidence. Evolution theorists would have us believe that starting with an intelligent, alert, noble animal similar to a chimpanzee, a human would result. Paris Hilton, say. No, I've come to believe that devolution is the organizing biological principle at work.

garyk said...

anon 12:49...I tend to agree with you, people don't think for themselves. If they did, they wouldn't mind the still cheap gas prices so much, but they'd be raising hell over their tripled home 'values' and out of control property taxes.

Seriously, I don't know the exact numbers but gas is still priced relatively low when adjusted for inflation. People around here are complaining about gas, and my response is simply that when it hits over $5 this year you can start complaining. But even then, sheeple probably won't change a thing...they'll keep driving and driving and driving in their SUV's.

Joe Logic said...

$10/gallon is the wake up call we all need. At $3.50 I hardly see a dent in people's driving habits. I still see SUVs and those big ass redneck F-whatever-50s racing down the freeway. Should these f*ckers be pressed hard, and have to choose between food and gas? F*ck yeah!

The reality is that the wake up call will not only change driving habits, but will cause major infrastructure shifts. It will be painful as grocery stores will be half stocked, usually with the good food gone. But it will bring the death to megapolis cities like LA and Phoenix and give rise to micropolis ones. Teleworking will become mainstream, and less taboo as most offices view it today.

When people are pushed up against a wall they will wake up from their lethargic sheeple state. America... f*ck yeah!

Anonymous said...

Venezuela's narcissist-Leninist President Hugo Chávez is a perfect example of U.S. oil-funded radicalism. When he was first elected in 1998 and oil prices were at $9 a barrel, Chávez was ridiculing critics who speculated that he would become a radical leftist. ''Me, a Communist?'' he asked reporters.

Today, with oil prices at more than $62 a barrel, Chávez ends his speeches proclaiming ''Socialism or Death!'' He claims that the United States is ''the cruelest, most terrible, most cynical, most murderous empire that has existed.'' And he chaperones Iranian Holocaust-denying President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad throughout Latin America.

---------------------------------

A-HA. So now it is the US's fault that Chavez is a dictator.

Got it.

Anonymous said...

Prices will go up until people change their behavior. The mysticism the "average Joe" ascribes to gas price setting is truly amazing.

Honestly, if you were the Saudi Oil Minister, wouldn't you set prices at the highest level that wouldn't permanently reduce demand? Until a couple years ago, the Saudia's thought $40 a barrel was that level. Our refusal to modify behavior at $70 sets has proven otherwise and set a new floor.

It is asking too much of the politicians, but the best course would be articulating a massive gas tax increase designed to change behavior phased in over 10 years. The best part of this is that prices would drop, partially negating the gas tax increase. So a signficant part of any large tax increase would come from producers. Instead we have "price gouging" bs that if effective would bring back gas lines.

Anonymous said...

Joe Logic said...
$10/gallon is the wake up call we all need. At $3.50 I hardly see a dent in people's driving habits. I still see SUVs and those big ass redneck F-whatever-50s racing down the freeway. Should these f*ckers be pressed hard, and have to choose between food and gas? F*ck yeah!

----------------------------------
Typical east or west coast city snob bullshit. Try running a farm without a pick-up. Try running a construction company in a Prius instead of an F150. Try living in Colorado without a 4X4 vehicle. Millions of people need big vehicles to make a living and move good around. You think food magically shows up at the gorcery store without several people out in fly-pver country in redneck F150s handling it at some point?

Get a clue dipshit.

Anonymous said...

You nutjobs whine about inflation all the time and here you are cheering for $10 gas.

Earth to lunatics, earth to lunatics....that will cause massive inflation.

sam said...

Also, liquified coal is a complete scam worse than ethanol.

Think about how inherently ridiculous an idea this is and how much energy it must take to convert rock coal into Hummer juice.

Anonymous said...

For many decades, we have sent our army all over the Middle East to protect "oil interests." We have protected all kinds of dictators and tyrants in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc., just because they say a few kind words to us and sell us oil. If we are going to kill these peoples' enemies to protect their high-priced oil, why don't we just use our army to take the oil and declare it our own? If we are going to be the world's biggest empire ever, as we are, why not just act fully as an empire and take the damn oil and stop playing this game of protecting tyrants who smile at us? And, what about all that clean coal that President Clinton put out of reach by declaring it part of a national park back in the mid-1990s? There was talk that it was a gift to the Chinese so we wouldn't be competing with the clean coal they were marketing.

Anonymous said...

Why the hell does Keith think the government will be any better at providing "public transportation" than it is at providing anything else? Except for killing people and destroying property, the government hasn't proven good at doing anything. Perhaps Keith needs to purchase and read Ludwig von Mises "Human Action."

Anonymous said...

>> I commented the other day that the only thing that'd get America off the crack is $10 gas. Mass transit, conservation, urban planning, energy policy, hybrids, alt fuels, the end of suburbia, you know the drill.<<

Wow, sounds like a leftist paradise. Plus, with everyone poorer, the layabouts won't have such poor self-esteem.

synthetik said...

Ever wonder why we haven't built a new refinery in 30 years? Or why there have been problems with refining oil for gasoline?

1. If you were an oil exec and your source was drying up, why invest in new equipment?

2. The sweet crude oil is not sweet anymore, in fact, sour. This makes it more difficult and expensive to refine.

I agree that $10 gas is needed, but ultimately it won't solve our problem. Alt fuels will never replace the density of sweet crude oil.

Lower population and lower consumption is the only answer, however I doubt that will happen. (i.e., Chindya)

Anonymous said...

If you are complaining about gas prices and at the same time buying coffee at Starbucks, paying $3 for one cup, think what you can do about it. Right! Start making coffee at home and stop complaining. Change your habits.

Big Cheese said...

Keith,

I travel to the UK a lot. Can you explain why the fantastic diesel cars there never made it across the coast to the USA?

For example, a Ford Mondeo - a large car with a V6 turbo diesel and 6-speed manual shift was giving me about 52 - 53 miles per gallon when I was driving in the UK over several long trips. It is especially efficient when cruising, even at 80 MPH. And it was very quick as well.

Why aren't the auto makers offering such cars in the US? They seem environmentally clean, are the same price but are economical and fast.

This seems so strange to me that I feel it's intentional like a conspiracy (sorry about the drama :-]). Especially since I can't find any good discussion threads on this sort of topic.

Any thoughts on this?

-Big Cheese

Guy Daley said...

How dare Exxon make a profit?

Meanwhile these dopes are reading the MSM news in the morning with their $5 Starbucks coffee that costs ten cents to make. That's OK, but paying $3 a gallon of gas, why that's highway robbery!!

The dumbing down of America continues.


The dumbing down of America continues.. I wholeheartedly agree.

We import a goodly percentage of our oil and who does it benefit when we are paying huge prices for oil? Americans? somewhat. Ragheads from the middle east, Chavez and company, the Nigerian oligarachy? You damn straight. When your paying $100 for your tank of gas, basically some corrupt SOB in a foreign land benefits. So yeah, help your (foreign) neighbor who is more than likely going to stab you in the back at some point or another.

Here is a good suggestion which will be promptly ignored by everybody that reads it. Honda makes a vehicle that runs on natural gas. You can buy a special hookup and fuel your car from home (if you don't have an all electric house). We import very little natural gas unlike oil. That would help immeasurably lessening our dependence on foreign oil. If I was anything like all the people on this forum making six figures a year, I would either buy a Prius or a Honda Civic natural gas car. But I can't afford $20K + cars to make a political statement.

Anonymous said...

Bush administration will tell you that it is doing a lot to reduce America's oil consumption.
-----------------------------------

come on Keith, you needed to bash the dems a little too. What has been their response to high gas prices????

They blamed the oil companies and worked on price-gouging legislation. big help there.

Anonymous said...

A-HA. So now it is the US's fault that Chavez is a dictator.

Got it.
-----------------------------------

man, pubic education is not what it used to be (yes, the typo is on purpose).

Scored low in reading comprehension, huh anon 2:14?

Keith said that our oil money is to blame for enabling Chavez to be "sucessful". if oil was still at $9 he would not be as popular as he currently is.

Roccman said...

"I've often wondered why we don't use liquified coal."

Because coal is at peak as well as oil (and Natural gas...and Uranium...and food...and water) AND because it is hugely damaging to the atmosphere.

See - what needs to get through to people is it WILL NOT BE BUSINESS AS USUAL.

Your SUV will not be worth scrap metal in 5 years.

Roccman said...

"I hope in your heart you really aren't hoping for much higher gas prices. "

Too bad - cheap prices mean more people buy and the supplies go away that much quicker.

The poor will suffer first.

That's life.

Roccman said...

"Meanwhile these dopes are reading the MSM news in the morning with their $5 Starbucks coffee that costs ten cents to make. That's OK, but paying $3 a gallon of gas, why that's highway robbery!!"

POST OF THE THREAD (so far)

Damn right - gas is INCREDIBLY CHEAP.

We will pay $12 FOR A GALLON OF WATER!!!

Let me put this in perspective...

at $70/barrel = .15 per cup.

got it??

Roccman said...

"The reality is that the wake up call will not only change driving habits, but will cause major infrastructure shifts. It will be painful as grocery stores will be half stocked, usually with the good food gone. But it will bring the death to megapolis cities like LA and Phoenix and give rise to micropolis ones. "

Translation: Die Off of the oil addicted monkey.

Roccman said...

"Typical east or west coast city snob bullshit. Try running a farm without a pick-up. Try running a construction company in a Prius instead of an F150. Try living in Colorado without a 4X4 vehicle. Millions of people need big vehicles to make a living and move good around. You think food magically shows up at the gorcery store without several people out in fly-pver country in redneck F150s handling it at some point?

Get a clue dipshit. "

All good points, but it won't change reality.

Oil is depleting at a 6 to 1 barrel pace.

New finds can't even come close to offsetting declines.

And THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE to oil [.]

Roccman said...

" If we are going to kill these peoples' enemies to protect their high-priced oil, why don't we just use our army to take the oil and declare it our own? "

Two words...

China and Russia

Ok 3

Roccman said...

"Lower population and lower consumption is the only answer, however I doubt that will happen. "

New post of the thread!!!!

Ding ding we have a winner here folks!!

Have a nice die off.

Anonymous said...

hey roccman...err get a life dude

anon666 said...

Frank said "No, I've come to believe that devolution is the organizing biological principle at work. "

Yes, with no natural predators, human evolution favors those who breed the most. Check out the film 'Idiocracy', hilarious spew about this....

Going back on topic, I don't think habits will change much at $4/ gallon gas, just more complaining and more empty threats by Congress to investigate pro$it taking by the oil companies. I think $6/ gallon is when people will buy fuel efficient cars, shorten their commute, take public transit, etc....

Joe Logic said...

Typical east or west coast city snob bullshit. Try running a farm without a pick-up. Try running a construction company in a Prius instead of an F150. Try living in Colorado without a 4X4 vehicle. Millions of people need big vehicles to make a living and move good around. You think food magically shows up at the gorcery store without several people out in fly-pver country in redneck F150s handling it at some point?

Get a clue dipshit.


No it's the coast city snobs who I refer to. These exurban "freeway warrior" jackoffs who commute 30 miles from their shitbox in their SUV, who then complain to their co-workers about high gas prices. The guys that spank each other off at the water cooler to how much torque their HEMI has or some shit like that. When and if $10/gallon hits they'll be sucking c**k in the streets for a loaf of bread.

Metroplexual said...

There goes Rich again on his end of the world crap. Kunstler was saying it was the end of the world at Y2K, and here we are.

Kunstler is only happy when he is hating society and above all suburbia. Electric cars is where we will be moving toward. Electrical production wiill be ramped up throught the use of 3rd wave solar which is 10 times more productive than current 2nd wave technology provides and it is more versatile as well.

Oil has been too cheap and the conversion will take time. But a dieoff? Give me a break Rich!

BTW an electric car is currentl;y available for 35 MPH road or less.
it gets 40 miles on a charge and costs $180/ year for the electricity to operate.

Guy Daley said...

Roccman - Lots of good points especially lower population and lower consumption, but we do have an alternative to oil and that is natural gas. See my previous post. Anything we can do to stop shoveling money overseas is a win/win. This is something that is incomprehensible to the ordinary American. Who would think that by buying raghead oil that we'd be supporting terrorist groups or other interest contrary to our own. Certainly not Americans.

Also to the gentleman that bicycle commutes - I consider him a hero. Anybody who lives close enough to work to bicycle is smart. Most males have to listen to the female about living close to the good school districts so they end up driving 50 miles to work. The female nesting instinct and the instinct for the male to give into that instinct is one of the most economically damaging things in this country. A lot of guys wouldn't give a damn if they lived in a mobile home because they spend most of there lives working but guess who ends up making the decision on the house?

I've always hated commuting to work. Massive, time consuming commutes are like a birthright in America. IF Americans would get over this godawful idea that oil is an infinite resource they might actually change there habits......NAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW

Oh as for the noob that says F150s and larger are necessary for work. You know the truth of the matter but your exaggerating to make your point. For every trip that large truck makes toting material, it goes on 9 trips toting a single, individual person oftentimes just to get beer and ciagarettes.

I live in Rawlins, WY, one of the big truck capitals of the world and the truck beds are empty 99% of the time.

synthetik said...

>have a nice die off

Yep. Unfortunately without cheap, sweet crude oil the estimates say the globe can only support 1-2B people.

If you took the state of Iowa, plowed the entire thing and grew any type of biomass/fuel, one years' crop would only last 5 days of US automobile consumption.

Bio/Alt fuels are a fallacy.

Say goodbye to mass agriculture, which relies on fossil fuels for pesticides, fertilizer and equipment.

www.oildrum.com
www.seattleoil.com

Anonymous said...

"If I was anything like all the people on this forum making six figures a year, I would either buy a Prius or a Honda Civic natural gas car. But I can't afford $20K + cars to make a political statement."

Many of us on this board making that 6 figure salary are also living in bubble cities where it is extraordinarily expensive (2500/month rent), getting the shit taxed out of us (30K/year), and simply do not have the scratch to buy a luxury vehicle such as the Prius. In fact, I would have to say that many of us are essentially living paycheck to paycheck.

Roccman said...

"Roccman - Lots of good points especially lower population and lower consumption, but we do have an alternative to oil and that is natural gas."

Unfortunately not so.

Nat Gas is tanking in Canada, Mexico, and is past peak in the US.

http://www.energybulletin.net/news.php?cat=5

And - Nat Gas will crash much harder because of pressure declines in lines.

Louisville Realtor said...

Despite the rise in gas prices, people are still buying gas as normal. I don't think we will see much of a change in the form of people switching to public transportation until gas prices no longer fall back after a steep rise.

Roccman said...

"Oil has been too cheap and the conversion will take time. But a dieoff? Give me a break Rich! "

Yeah I know Metro...we have gone round and round on this for a couple years now.

Hey when pigs fly...eh??

Well my friend here's the equation:

no oil = no food = dieoff.

Very simple math here.

Got to:

www.dieoff.org

for the FACTS.

Anonymous said...

Wow, Keith, here is something
I really agree with you on. I grew
up riding bikes, and would LOVE to
commute again, if I wasn't afraid of
dying. Maybe 10$ gas will be the
incentive we need to have something
simple like bike lanes and trains.

I'm sick to death of cars in NM.

Roccman said...

"Say goodbye to mass agriculture, which relies on fossil fuels for pesticides, fertilizer and equipment."

News Flash!!!

Synthetik takes the GRAND PRIZE!!!!

Not only did he/she linked to the most respected site or source for oil depletion discussion on the web (the oil drum), but he/she gets "the oil we eat" concept.

Bravo!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

WTF? Since when did a Prius become a luxury vehicle? Thing cost $25K with tax. Plus you also get some tax break of I think $2500 for owning one. Sorry but a $22.5K car is not luxury.

Anonymous said...

Why is Richard calling himself roccman?

Anonymous said...

The guys that spank each other off at the water cooler to how much torque their HEMI has or some shit like that.

Hey I have a HEMI and don't spank anyone or have anyone spank me thank you very much. I do tow my 7900 lb boat and the HEMI does come in handy up those steep mountain climbs. Ayight? No go have your 1/2 caf, mocha with non-fat soy milk and leave me alone.

Anonymous said...

WTF? Since when did a Prius become a luxury vehicle? Thing cost $25K with tax. Plus you also get some tax break of I think $2500 for owning one. Sorry but a $22.5K car is not luxury.
---------------------

It is all relative. Prius is a luxury yugo. 25k is a heck of a lot to pay for an electrified yugo.

Anonymous said...

Hey I have a HEMI and don't spank anyone or have anyone spank me thank you very much. I do tow my 7900 lb boat and the HEMI does come in handy up those steep mountain climbs. Ayight? No go have your 1/2 caf, mocha with non-fat soy milk and leave me alone.
-------------------------------------

right on! I use my hemi to pull my 5-th wheeler (complete with satellite tv) out into the wilderness so me and the family can enjoy mother nature!

Roccman said...

"Why is Richard calling himself roccman? "

of the dozen other sites I post on this was the only one I used my real name.

I changed it a few weeks ago.

Anonymous said...

Corporations, governments and quasigovernment agencies have not even begun to reduce oil consumption by cutting back service. Why are daily mail delivery, daily package delivery, and short airplane trips of less than 100 miles still allowed? It makes no sense for the UPS truck to drive an extra 10 miles to deliver a dress to a customer and to repeat the trip the next day to deliver a book. Why should a plane fly 100 miless to a nearby city when a bus or train could get from one downtown destination to another in roughly the same time considering the time required to park, get ticket, go through security and to get to/from the destination to the airport? Why is daily mail delivery required? If nothing else is done, stagger delivery days, UPS on Mondays and Thursdays, FedX on Tuesdays and Fridays, USPS on Wednesdays and Saturdays etc. If fast delivery is critical, that could be the exception, but the book delivery to grandma could wait a few days to conserve fuel. This does not even consider the problem of one person vehicles driving 50 miles each way to work. Rationing plus an excess usage penalty of perhaps 50 cents a gallon for anyone driving over 10,000 miles per year would reduce consumption by forcing people to search more intensively for carpooling opportunities or force them to move closer to work.

synthetik said...

Not only did he/she linked to the most respected site or source for oil depletion discussion on the web (the oil drum), but he/she gets "the oil we eat" concept.

For anyone interested in understanding Peak Oil, I suggest "The Long Emergency" by Kunstler. There are at least 10-15 other books you can read and for some reason they're all located in the "nature" section at B&N.

Even if PO doesn't happen tomorrow, it doesn't hurt to be prepared - because not everyone will survive.

Being able to recognize truth doesn't make one a gloom and doomer.

Example: When did you first realize there was a housing bubble? If you were a homeowner, did you even WANT to look into it, or think about it?

When did you first realize we were going to have a massive recession?

Being a pollyanna is fantastic until the day comes when you're standing in a food line. "oh, look at all the wonderful football leather we have to eat today! Isn't god good!"

Nobody is talking about Peak Oil, however, if you study the facts and spend a little time understanding it, you might start to realize that it's the single greatest threat (reality) that we're facing.

Roccman said...

Hey synthetik - that link "so very doomed" you posted at Roccland does not work.

Repost bro.

Thx

Roccman said...

T. Boone Pickens - March 4, 2007

http://www.peakoil.net/BoonPickens.html

"Let me tell you some facts the way I see it," he began. "Global oil (production) is 84 million barrels (a day). I don't believe you can get out any more than 84 million barrels. I don't care what (Saudi Crown Prince) Abdullah, (Russian Premier Vladimir) Putin or anybody else says about oil reserves or production. I think they are on decline in the biggest oil fields in the world today and I know what's it like once you turn the corner and start declining, it's a tread mill that you just can't keep up with. "

Peak Oil is here...today and has been here since December 2005

DontCopyPaste said...

'Iranian Holocaust-denying President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad'

Please keep on referring to the propaganda. You might look at sensible media like Der Spiegel on this subject instead of copy/pasting brainwashed one liners all the time.

For the rest, the blog is excellent and a great read!

Guy Daley said...

Roccman - I went to your energy bulletin url and I didn't want to wade through it trying to find your evidence. But you didn't really address my point anyway.

Here it is: In terms of energy CONSUMPTION, we are importing a MUCH higher percentage of oil than we are natural gas. I'm not talking about Peak oil or dropping production. I'm talking about what we import which equates to dollars being shoveled overseas, Canada or Mexico which wreaks havoc on our trade deficit.

I found one quote, "During the past decade, IMPORTED natural gas supplies have increased from 8% of the annual US consumption from 1990 to 16% through November 1999."

Now I'm sure you are aware that we import a much larger % of our oil needs.

Stop using natural gas for electrical production, switch to coal, waste to energy plants and other methods. Use natural gas to run transportation, it is SOOO much cleaner. BTW, Wyoming is one of the states in the union where gas production is increasing year over year. I should know, I live right near the giant fields and see the rigs like mushrooms after a wet spring. They just finished a giant natural gas pipeline that is routed to the midwest. I'm not saying Wyoming can supply US needs either but exploration is big here in southern wyoming, northern CO.

Its a comprehensive package, we could save fantastic amounts of energy if every house in the sun belt had a solar hot water heater. But that's not in governments best interests. It might be in the peoples best interest but certainly not OUR government.

Guy Daley said...

P.S. The 100 Billion that Bush just suckered out of the hapless sheeple to extend the Iraqi war (100 billion is just a fraction of the total cost) probably could have put a solar hot water heater on every home in the sun belt.

But what did we get for our 100 billion? Our government has a different agenda and it certainly doesn't include whats best for our country.

Anonymous said...

Why are daily mail delivery, daily package delivery, and short airplane trips of less than 100 miles still allowed? It makes no sense for the UPS truck to drive an extra 10 miles to deliver a dress to a customer and to repeat the trip the next day to deliver a book. Why should a plane fly 100 miless

--------------------------------

Because you socialist piece of filth, that is what people want. Why can't you comuunists understand that people don't want to carpool, they don't want to take a train, they don't want to take a bus. It's called freedom to live your life as you see fit. Stop trying to tell me how to live my life.

Roccman said...

"Stop using natural gas for electrical production, switch to coal, waste to energy plants and other methods."

Hey Guy - I think you have educated yourself on this...and that I appreciate.

You are absolutely correct about a higher use for NG than electricity; however, the twist is two fold:

1) Nat Gas supplies are declining and declining fast. BECAUSE we use it for electricty.

2)Utilizing coal for electricity does make sense, but the permitting is very difficult and very time consuming.

We do not have time remaining to off line NG plants for coal...maybe if we started 30 years ago.

I drive a NG car. It is cheaper by 40% than gas, but only 7 filling station exist in all of teh Phoenix area. The infrastructure is not in place...and once again we are out of time.

Look bro...go to www.peakoil.com

Read and post.

Great community.

I post as roccman.

Let me know when you join!!

Anonymous said...

A-HA. So now it is the US's fault that Chavez is a dictator.

No it isn't.

It's the oil consumer's fault that Chavez is a rich and powerful dictator who can buy influence and supporters, instead of a punk-ass kicked out on the street because his socialist idiocies don't make wealth gusher from (oil-free) rocks, as he would be in any other oil-free nation.


BTW, when was the all-time high of conventional oil production worldwide?

Summer 2005.

When did prices really start taking off? Summer 2005.


In every previous circumstance when prices had risen so much, there was a burst of oil company investment (as was now), and soon, more oil flowed and prices came back down in a couple of years.

Except, this time the second part isn't happening.

And it is NOT because of lack of development and exploration at all. Oil companies are running flat out and oil service demand has exploded.

Why?

Peak Oil. You can't fool the laws of physics.

And same with global warming---laws of physics are even better known there. (Peak Oilists who deny greenhouse induced global warming are stupendously illogical. Both are based on incontrovertible physical fact.)

Anonymous said...

Ghawar is dying

Look at chart #4. World Crude Oil production. Not gone up since 2005. Never happened before in a time of global growth and strong price increases.

By the way "all liquids" is baloney since it includes ethanol which has significantly less energy capacity---and the tar sands require massive natural gas and coal inputs

Anonymous said...

Watch this

http://escapefromsuburbia.com/