May 25, 2007

Ron Paul on what to do about the illegals storming across the border

More and more of my constituents are asking me when Congress will address the problem of illegal immigration. The public correctly perceives that neither political party has the courage to do what is necessary to prevent further erosion of both our border security and our national identity. As a result, immigration may be the sleeper issue that decides the 2008 presidential election.

The problem of illegal immigration will not be solved easily, but we can start by recognizing that the overwhelming majority of Americans – including immigrants – want immigration reduced, not expanded.

Amnesty for illegal immigrants is not the answer. Millions of people who broke the law by entering, staying, and working in our country illegally should not be rewarded with a visa. Why should lawbreakers obtain a free pass, while those seeking to immigrate legally face years of paperwork and long waits for a visa?

We must end welfare state subsidies for illegal immigrants. Some illegal immigrants – certainly not all – receive housing subsidies, food stamps, free medical care, and other forms of welfare. This alienates taxpayers and breeds suspicion of immigrants, even though the majority of them work very hard. Without a welfare state, we would know that everyone coming to America wanted to work hard and support himself.

Our current welfare system also encourages illegal immigration by discouraging American citizens from taking low-wage jobs. This creates greater demand for illegal foreign labor. Welfare programs and minimum wage laws create an artificial market for labor to do the jobs Americans supposedly won’t do.

Our most important task is to focus on effectively patrolling our borders. With our virtually unguarded borders, almost any determined individual – including a potential terrorist – can enter the United States. Unfortunately, the federal government seems more intent upon guarding the borders of other nations than our own. We are still patrolling Korea’s border after some 50 years, yet ours are more porous than ever. It is ironic that we criticize Syria for failing to secure its border with Iraq while our own borders, particularly to the south, are no better secured than those of Syria.


Anonymous said...

"We are still patrolling Korea’s border after some 50 years, yet ours are more porous than ever. It is ironic that we criticize Syria for failing to secure its border with Iraq while our own borders, particularly to the south, are no better secured than those of Syria."

Right on Paul. You are my president.

Anonymous said...

now I've heard it all from you Ron Paul nutjobs. Defending Syria. And you wonder why he is polling at 0.00001% outside of blogs.

Alex Cabrera said...

Ok so "secure borders and reduce welfare goverment" is the answear? That's not directly answearing or dealing with the problem. What about the illegals that are here inside, just let them be?

So yeah they broke the law, so you don't give them a free pass (the reason they have to pay a penalty).

This should be obvious: This is economy can NOT work with a 20 million substraction to it's workforce! Keith: you are sure to realize this, right?

Anonymous said...

See also:

Ron Paul assigns Giuliani homework - CNN

Major Political Site TechPresident Article: The Rise of Ron Paul

NPR - Dark Horse Paul Runs Well on the Web

Ron Paul Web Traffic Surging Again!, Increases Web Traffic Lead on Obama, Etc.

By Rep. Ron Paul - On Patriotism - May 24, 2007

Anonymous said...

The little guy in Mexico cannot make a living due to Nafta & GAAT ruining small farmers. Of course, the local Mexican elite have profited from the situation & allowed it to happen.

Agent #777 said...

OW! OW!!

Too much common sense first thing in the morning!!

...except @anon 1044 AM. Resorts to name-calling when he can't understand a basic statement. Paul is not defending Syria, he is condemning US policy. This is what we get with government school education. And yes, I can understand why he would be "polling at 0.00001%" among those too stupid to use a computer, because the Constitution is a complex document. So, who did you pay to type this in for you?

Anonymous said...

>> now I've heard it all from you Ron Paul nutjobs. Defending Syria. And you wonder why he is polling at 0.00001% outside of blogs.

Go away, stupid anon posters!

Anonymous said...

"Our most important task is to focus on effectively patrolling our borders."

An entirely stupid comment by Paul, and it shows that he is in the pocket of big business, just like the rest of the Republicans.

Immigrants, legal and illegal, come here for jobs.

Businesses hire illegal immigrants.

Unless businesses are punished for hiring illegal immigrants, they will continue to do so, and illegal immigrants will continue to find a way in.

"Patrolling the border" overlooks the fact that illegal immigrants arrive in a variety of ways, and many were originally here legally, but overstayed their visas.

Anyone who is serious about illegal immigration puts enforcement first - higher staffing for INS inspectors, and higher penalties for businesses which hire illegals.

Ron Paul is not serious about illegal immigration.

Anonymous said...

Why are you Neocon GOP nutjobs still posting here? You should be in Iraq playing referee between the Shiite and Sunni terrorists blowing each other up. We surely can't let terrorists kill each other. The best solution is to put our young men and women between crazed Muslims trying to kill each other. Stay the course!!!

Anonymous said...

The only people who worry about immigration reform are politicians. The election will not be decided by immigration reform. It's already been decided by the Iraq war. And mark my words, there's no way that another republican is winning in '08. You might as well find a democrat that you can get on board with.

Anonymous said...

Borders are becoming irrelevant. In case you haven't noticed, we're buying most of our Wal Mart junk from China, along with our clothes from Thailand, cars from Japan and Korea, etc. We can move people or we can move goods, there's not a lot of difference ultimately. I've worked on job sites with lots of illegals, in general they are good, hard-working people with skills most Americans now see as "below" them. The American ideal has become flipping houses and investing loose capital while ridding around in fancy SUVs with 20 inchers... Many people from countries to the south of the US still believe in working hard, taking care of their families and giving their kids better opportunities. Given a choice between working with a crew over-privileged frat boys and a crew of illegal Mexicans I'd take the Mexicans.

Blaming illegal immigration for various domestic problems is as silly as saying falling housing prices make it a great time to buy. You're barking up the wrong tree with the illegals, put that energy into getting the US back on track. It's not too late.

Anonymous said...

Why are you leftist anti-Americans still posting here? You should be out assisting the freedom fighters in Iraq killing Americans GIs. Everyone knows Americans are the most evil people in the world. It is your duty to assist in killing as many of them as you can.

Anonymous said...

So yeah they broke the law, so you don't give them a free pass (the reason they have to pay a penalty).

So they get US citizenship after paying $5000. Some penalty. There are about a billion people on this planet who would be subjected to that "penalty" in a second.

Try again.

Anonymous said...

re Anon 10:44 post
You are another example of whaT's wrong with America. You twist words around as well as the should go work for them if you already don't. Stop spinning and wake up to the fact that US foreign policy is out of control.

(sub)divide&conquer said...

apologies for my apparent ignorance, but i fail to see any correlation drawn between this topic and the "housing bubble" in the post. so whats your point? the only significance of illegal immigrants (and immigrants in general) i can see (as it relates to housing) is that:

[A] as an anon mentioned, they provide a more effective work force at a more economical rate and therefore theoretically allow for the american homebuyer to enjoy homeownership at a lower cost (i know, many will say that the builders don't pass on the savings, but thats another issue about greedy builders)


[B] immigration, like any cause of population growth, stimulates demand for housing and various consumer goods and services

so...was this post supposed to relate at all to housing, or have we exhausted all the possibilities and begun the transformation of this blog from housingPANIC to policyPANIC?

Boris Pasternak said...

I comletely agree with Ran Paul that we must end welfare magnet and control the Borders. But stop blaming illegals for all the mess Republicans created from the weak dollar to the war in Iraq.
You will not be able to deport 12 millions people and millions of kids who are US Citizens. simply because you need someone to blame. American citizens, who are allowed to have arms will not allow the creation of a fascist state.

Anonymous said...

"Defending Syria."

You, too, are a douche my friend.

The particular quote is not in defense of Syria as you incorrectly believe, but rather criticizes our government for being hypocritical."

Please go and kill and/or sterilize yourself so you do not infect the rest of humankind.

Aaron Weber said...

Everyone agrees that the system is broken in one way or another.

One thing that makes sense is the points system. Right now visas are granted at random or based on family connections. How about using, oh, skills and job offers?

A lot of people are suggestiong that those currently in the country pay back taxes in order to get a visa-- how does that sound to you?

Still, I think the major problem with illegal immigration is its illegal-ness: that pushes immigrants into the underground where they get screwed over, makes it easier for unscrupulous employers to pay below-minimum wages, etc. Better border enforcement, better labor enforcement, skills-oriented admissions policies... all would help improve the system.

Anonymous said...

My wife is an interpreter (and 100% legal permanent resident immigrant) and deals with many spanish-speaking medical patients, mostly women.

An enormous number of them get Medicaid (better than most private insurance) for themselves and their many children, and most of the time they are illegals. And yes, of course Medicaid isn't SUPPOSED to go to illegals but that "isn't their problem to check".

Of course the hospital and doctors have no incentive to do so because it means more revenue to them. (Medicaid isn't an HMO, it's fee for service and approves more than HMOs)

(And yes the hospitals on their face lose money and everybody who works and deals with them makes out like bandits).

So, we have socialized medicine for illegal immigrants who pay little tax---and actual law abiding workers like us get the shaft?

This bothers her even more than me.

I was unemployed (involuntarily) for almost a year and every month paid $1000/month for COBRA health insurance for us, and we don't even have children.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if the Mexicans(who immigrate here, I'll explain later) had light skin with blue eyes and spoke only english, if there would be such a debate on the whole immigration thing.

Admit it, your first thought in your mind was, you wished it were so.

In large Mexican cities, Mexicans do have blue/green eyes and light skin. But they have the same disdain for darker skin and eyes. That is why you only see the Mexicans that are shunned and not given the same opportunity the lighter skinned ones are given, come here.

We fear anything that is different than what we are used to. The language, the culture. Their darker skin and eyes.

Cubans land in Florida in huge numbers. But they are more accepted. Why? If you have been to Florida, you'll notice that the only difference from the mainstream is they speak spanish. Other than that the majority are light skinned and some have light eyes.

If we do stop the flow(unlikely)Who will be the next target? Asians of course.

Can you imagine what hell would be raised if the immigrants were coming in from Africa instead?

Are you a closet racist?

Anonymous said...

Why doesn't anyone talk about the employer's including Ron Paul? It seems rather simple, if you levy large fines on employers you hire illegals they won't hire them anymore. This would force them to return to there homes. Of course we would have a temporary shortage of employees, and that would drive up wages allowing americans to do the jobs that "they don't want to do." It also would force the congress to realistically look at the immigration process and have a real grasp on how to revamp it so it would actually work well. We'd know about how many legal immigrants we would need and could impose standards on the business who hire them.

RJ said...

Alex Cabrera said...
Okay so "secure borders and reduce welfare...what about the illegals that are here inside...

The answer to your second question is yes, in fact the U.S. economy can survive and thrive without 20 million Mexicanos and Central Americans. There would be an adjustment but all those jobs in construction, manufacturing, and service would be filled by Americans like they used to be 30 years ago. How did we get by back then? Americans will do the jobs if they're not undercut by cheap, imported labor. The only exception is agriculture and a real guest worker program would work there just fine.
In answer to the first question, we make it clear that the answer to the second question is true. If no one hires them, if they can't get government handouts and if they can't get housing then where will they go? Back to la familia in Mexico. The only other choice would be to starve in the streets.
You do not get it. The U.S. is already technically bankrupt. We cannot afford 20 million which will turn into 80 million (3 to 5 kids per family)poorly educated, unskilled stiffs who will need to be supported by a shrinking base of taxpayers.
BTW Thanks for posting with your name Alex.

Anonymous said...

Ron Paul has my vote

mynayjosejimenez said...

"border security" and "homeland security" are boondoggles designed as a kind of WPA-like full-employment jobs program and political patronage. period.

the US power elite want to merge canada, US, and mexico into one country. period.

eventually, they want to merge north america with south america, and then merge this entity with the EU+ to for a pan-atlantic federation with one currency, one trade/customs union, etc. period.

they want a "great leveling" of wages to bring up the developing world's wages and bring down developed countries' workers' wages. period.

ultimately, they want open borders and no restrictions to goods, capital, and labor. period.

supranational corporations have co-opted the do-gooder libs and progs into thinking that no "effective" immigration is humanitarian and enlightened policy. the corporations just want cheap labor. period.

large-scale industrial capitalism (as opposed to its predecessor, local free enterprise) has throughout its history required somewhere in the production chain slave or near-slave labor to sustain profits and investment against the increasing concentration of capital wealth and income and falling profits, investment, and output therefrom. period.

by definition, therefore, for the current rentier capitalism to continue to grow, someone has to fulfill the role of slaves to earn next to nothing to provide goods supplied at cheap prices to keep production and related consumption growing. period.

however, rentier capitalism, i.e., "globalization", contains seeds of its own eventual destruction. as developed countries begin to consume at higher-per-capita incomes, their energy-per-capita will rise beyond supplies, increasing costs of production and growth, defeating the purpose of the imperial-colonial "globalization". at some point, the west will have to declare global war on china to bring much of the country to rubble to reduce china's/asia's growth rate to prevent the country from sucking up most of the remaining fossil fuel reserves and leaving the west high and dry and vulnerable to china's rise and resource demands.

thus, prepare for a global war between the west and china within a generation. period.

higher taxes, bigger gov't/gdp, huge fiscal deficits and soaring public debt/gdp to bail out fannie, freddie, sallie, pensions, gov't trust funds, lenders, and medicare, massive monetary base growth by the fed reserve, and even more war spending/gdp, which are likely to eventually push inflation above 4-5% per annum. period.

we're bankrupt, but the public does not yet know it. period.

s said...

He's views on immigration are pretty easy to guess from his racist rants of the early 90s...

end slave labor said...

Is there any other country in the world that allows 20 million illegal aliens to enter their country? This only happens because businesses want the slave labor. American greed knows no boundaries or borders. It's strange how Western Europe and Japan can survive without massive illegal immigration, yet we are told that our economy would collapse without 20 million uneducated illiterate slaves mowing lawns and cleaning toilet.

lazy fat white guy said...

It's obvious that America would collapse and disappear unless there are illegal immigrants. Our economy would grind to a halt and we will all become paupers. Illegal immigrant landscapers will save Social Security, Medicare and pay off the national debt. Oranges would cost $5,000 without illegal immigrants. I can't even find meat at my supermarket anymore since they raided those meat plants in Nebraska and Colorado. I guess I'll have to eat cardboard from China

Anonymous said...

For the last time you fools "It's NOT AN AMNESTY PLAN", it’s a “slavery plan”.

They live here, they work here, they can’t vote, they work for dirt wages, and when they are completely worked to death we import new ones to replace them. PS: you tax payers will pay for their kids school, medical, and have to compete with ultra low wages.

Aaron Krowne said...

Tax evasion automatically gives a good chunk of illegals a very significant advantage in the labor market. That is the first abuse---abusing our direct taxation system. It should be eliminated (and don't say that there "is no income tax" for low-wage earners; you've never heard of social security and medicare, apparently).

The second abuse is as Paul says, public services and infrastructure: schools, roads and hospitals. Public schools should be eliminated, or at least made off limits for non-taxpayers (duh). More roads should be toll, now that we have the technology to make tolls transparent. Medical care is totally screwed up and should be restructured so it is 25-50% cheaper than it is now (this stems entirely from its tax treatment, as it turns out), then it would be less of a problem with those withou t insurance have to be cared for.

These factors are very significant and if remedied I suspect 50-75% of the "unsavory" immigration (which is currently illegal) would "go away".

In fact, with these welfare and tax problems that make our system abusable eliminated, we could essentially open our borders (applying little more than language and civics tests) and it would be to our benefit. Remember we've absorbed massive waves of millions of immigrants before---but when they got here there was little to abuse and they actually had to work hard, contribute, and become Americans. We can do it again, but not with the current system (which is very far from what the founders of this country intended, as Paul correctly points out).

TheHangingJudge said...

Borders are becoming irrelevant.

Go live in north Korea for a year and come back and tell us that again after you've lost 70 or 80 pounds.
While you're there you can see what effective border control is by visiting the DMZ, just watch out for the mines and snipers.
Our mexican border has become irrelevant because our government refused to stop the invasion. The foreign criminals are bad enough but traitors like you are the worst. Sh!t like you should be impaled every fifty feet along the border.

Anonymous said...

Is there really a war on terror when everyone including terrorists know they can stream right over the border and it takes an immigration bill to "fortify" the border 6 yeasr after 9/11???

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Cubans land in Florida in huge numbers. But they are more accepted. Why? If you have been to Florida, you'll notice that the only difference from the mainstream is they speak spanish. Other than that the majority are light skinned and some have light eyes.
A little History lesson. Sheesh.


The Cubans in the USA are the elite who were wealthy and educated. Havana was very rich and an International hub/play ground for the wealthy before Castro.

Castro's Government confiscated the Elite of Cuba's wealth, mansions, art and cars and sent them packing to Florida.

These people are Doctors, Government Officials, University Professors, etc. who came to the US and were given $100.00 and train Tickets to make a new life (wet foot dry foot gave them LEGAL Status as political refugees).
They now have grown children who are CPA's, Lawyers and Teachers and contribute to our American Society.

Much later the Boat Lift came to Florida. This is when Castro emptied out his prisons and sent some of them here.


STOP talking about race or ethnicity, it is legal STATUS versus ILLEGAL status! Nuff said.
I am right and you are 'el wrong oh'.

FlyingMonkeyWarrior said...

Dear mynayjosejimenez,

Yep to all you posted except war with China, I hope. (:

Vita said...

Robert Rector's Heritage Foundation statistics on what amnesty will cost us (that is, the next 2-3 generations of us) is really hair-raising and worth reading/pondering.

On another note: Has anyone seen reliable information on how many jobs currently filled by illegals could be replaced by machinery? I used to see the occasional article by inventors/manufacturers on products suitable for harvesting certain crops, and how many human pickers could be displaced in the fields by such equipment.

Anonymous said...

"Blaming illegal immigration for various domestic problems is as silly as saying falling housing prices make it a great time to buy."

It's so hard for some people to understand the power of exponential growth and how that affects the use of resources.

We can't keep with this crazy inflow of illegals forever. The US is running out of resources and it's making our lives miserable and more expensive.

Illegals (even after getting citizenhip) send most of their earnings back to their country of origin, without investing in our economy, helping to pay for social services or for the extra infrastructure needed to support so many people. It's a fact that illegals who get citizenship consume on average $2 of welfare benefits for every $1 they put into the system.

A government can't make a reliable plan or budget if the borders are wide open with an endless supply of illegals coming in. Can't you amnesty sympathizers understand that? The country will collapse eventually. To make things worse, the illegals have large families that end up consuming more resources and welfare benefits.

It's like making a dinner for 2 but lots and lots of people keep coming into your house to join you for dinner. We are running out of water, infrastructure is getting freaking expensive, education system is broken, violence has increased (Latino gangs in America is the fastest growing).

Finally, illegals are depressing the wages of many Americans. For instance, African Americans used to make a good living on the roofing business, earning around $18 / hour to support their families. Illegals put them out of business by accepting $8 to do the same job, without paying any taxes, and living with another 10 people in a single family home. There's nothing good that comes out of this amnesty, only benefits greedy corporations and crook politicians.

It's beyond me why other legal immigrants would be supporting open borders and amnesty if their own jobs are at risk with so much competition and supply of cheap labor that end up depressing overall wages. It's just stupid for a legal Mexican worker to be supporting this. Hey, the illegals will get your job or depress your wages, no doubt.

Anonymous said...

"now I've heard it all from you Ron Paul nutjobs. Defending Syria. And you wonder why he is polling at 0.00001% outside of blogs."

Wow, it's scary how so many people have little capacity of discerning in America.

If you really didn't understand what Ron Paul said, you should cut back on TV time and start reading a lot more. No wonder only 16% of Americans have a bachelor's degree.

Karl Rove and Cheney love this kind of people who score very low in cognitive tests.

Ron Paul is too smart for red neck America. These people can't function properly...there's something wrong with them. And they are not ashamed of looking or sounding dumb either, have you noticed? Please don't breed!

Anonymous said...

"The Cubans in the USA are the elite who were wealthy and educated."

Huahuahauhau...the funniest thing I heard in months. Apparently you never had contact or lived among Cubans. Educated? Those people are the most obnoxious, illiterate, corrupt, and uneducated people I have ever come across.

I have been in some funky places in Latin America, but Cubans win by far as the most rude and uneducated people I have ever met. I tell you what, ask ANY other Latin people what they think about Cubans.

Anonymous said...

"Why are you leftist anti-Americans still posting here?"

You see, you got it all wrong. We're not anti-American; we are anti-STUPID & SHEEPLE-American. That's a big difference.

Anonymous said...

"and therefore theoretically allow for the american homebuyer to enjoy homeownership at a lower cost"

Not really because the greedy builders never pass along the savings to buyers. BTW, we all can see that homes are sooooo cheap these days! *insert sarcasm*

Anonymous said...

"Illegal immigrant landscapers will save Social Security, Medicare and pay off the national debt."

I say it again because people never listens here: Illegals after getting citizenship won't volunteer to pay taxes. Why would they? You assume that, after getting his citizenship, Ramirez who was cleaning toilet and getting paid under the table, in cash, suddenly will get a job at Merril Lynch as an analyst and will start paying lots of taxes. Wise up, would you? The illegals will continue to earn in cash, not pay for taxes or infrastructure, and send 80% of earnings back to Mexico. Why would ANYONE who was working for cash under the table volunteer to pay taxes? Amazing how naive some people are.

BTW, for the concerned people that will collapse without Mexican labor, don't you worry because we can call cheap labor around the world in a need basis, like Japan does very efficiently and controlled. Japan had a shortage for welders and some other manual labor, and all they did was recruit the amount they needed from several countries. That's how the US should do, not leaving 20 million to come at once, without specific skills, who are going to breed into another 80 million.

Cris Columbus said...

At many points in history people blamed immigrants for all the problems like crime, poverty etc... They blamed people from Southern Europe,Irish, Jews, Chinese, Japanese. They said they would never learn English, adjust culturally, contribute to the economy and will bancrupt the country fast. Just substitute those Irish and Italians for Mexicans on this blog and you know what was said.
It is absolute lie that illegals are criminals. They are significantly LESS likely to commit crime and use social services compared to US born.
So nothing new.
I am just tired of hearing about "family values" and Christian ethics from the same Republicans who support Senate bill and want immigrants to wait 16 years to reunite with their spouses and children.