March 01, 2007

HousingPANIC Stupid Question of the Day


Is America in the mess it's in today because The Greatest Generation is dying off - you know, the ones who lived through the Great Depression, and learned the lessons of frugality, selflessness, live within your means, prepare for a rainy day, take care of your fellow man, and that yes, the financial system can at any time implode horrifically?

If nobody is there to teach the lessons of The Great Depression, and the American education system spits out PS2 addicted dolts who don't know their history, and the Baby Boomer Consumer generation teaches their kids the wrong lessons (consume, consume, consume, me, me, me), then is it too much of a surprise that most Americans have no idea what's coming, and are woefully unprepared?

63 comments:

bozonian said...

Hey! No Fair! You can't put up an upcoming Time Magazine cover without their permission!

Oh wait, this one is ok.

Like I said before, when Time magazine shows the poor foreclosed family of four, with mother holding baby in swaddling and boy toddler holding father's hand on cover and inside article one quote saying "This is America. How could this happen here?", then, and ONLY then will the housing crash be acknowledged.

Anonymous said...

Hey! It's Blowfly's family portrait.

Well, I guess no one can deny he owns his own McMansion.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Butch said...

Keith wrote:

"Is America in the mess it's in today because The Greatest Generation is dying off - you know, the ones who lived through the Great Depression, and learned the lessons of frugality, selflessness, live within your means, prepare for a rainy day, take care of your fellow man, and that yes, the financial system can at any time implode horrifically?"

Butch reply:

Close, but not quite. Yes, indeed "The Greatest Generation" was greatly impacted psychologically by the Great Depression but not so much that they dismantled the fiat currency, fractional reserve lending, central banking scheme that lead to the collapse in the first place. Furthermore, it was that same generation that gave us "The Great Society", Vietnam war, completely abandoned the last vestiges of a gold standard (with the 1971 closing of the gold window) and increasing governmnet intervention into every facet of citizen's lives.

Now, that was bad enough but then along comes the Baby Boomers who amplify and compound the problems by layering the "miracle" of securitization and derivatives on top of the afore-mentioned "Inverted Pyramid of Death" fiat/fractional reserve/central banking scheme, running up massive amounts of debt, increasing the size and level of intrusion of government into the economy, dealing off the U.S. manufacturing base to third-world countries, blowing off any semblance of financial regulation, sparking numerous financial bubbles, starting a perpetual war and generally making the situation worse by a factor of ten.

Finally, Gen X and the Millenials are coming of age and this group has ZERO historical perspective on the dangers of empires.

Combine all of the above with the rise of Asia, the end of cheap, easy-to-find oil, the difficulty of projecting power due to better defensive weapons, the demographics of the 77 million Baby Boomer retirement, and you have a perfect storm for collapse of the U.S. economic system.

It may not happen tomorrow (but then again, it might), but I cannot see our privileged position lasting another ten years.

Tying all this into the housing bubble, this particular insanity will lead to the greatest economic collapse this country has ever seen. It will make the Great Depression I look like a mild recession.

I shudder to think about the social and political ramifications of this bust, a bust that is well underway.

raynla said...

The great irony in this photo is the hard wood floor.

It makes me wonder if this a picture of the Toll family being how shabby the build quality of this home looks.

Anonymous said...

McFly! Hello! McFly!

Anonymous said...

Of course its the reason. If you follow H.S Dent at all, its one of the economic cycles...the 80 year cycle that matches 80 year life spans....when the majority of those who were around for the depression start to die off.

Hmmmm 1929....2009....not that far off.

Anonymous said...

Get a grip. The Greatest Generation was just less affluent. But they were the same ignorant american greedpigs as any subsequent generation. American is a cesspool culture no matter who is around.

Anonymous said...

Like I said before, when Time magazine shows the poor foreclosed family of four, with mother holding baby in swaddling and boy toddler holding father's hand on cover and inside article one quote saying "This is America. How could this happen here?", then, and ONLY then will the housing crash be acknowledged.

By then, the housing crash will be over.

Lost Cause said...

Stock Market Crash...Up 8 points today! Everything is FINE! A recovery of 0.43%!!! Everything is FINE!! Didn't you see the news today??

Lost Cause said...

I always wondered how those big houses from the turn of the century ever got contructed. When I was growing up, they were often converted into five apartment units. History does not repeat itself? We are definitely in the era of big houses again. It took a long time to see homes like that going up again.

Anonymous said...

The great generation is dying out and leaving the money for the BBs blow on crap from China or buy McMansions they can't afford.

Anonymous said...

Where's the hummer?

Anonymous said...

Are those Nike's?

Anonymous said...

They should have used the friends and family cellphone plan, they would have got free nights and w/e's.

Anonymous said...

Man, I'm glad I'm born now, they had no American Idol. That's just wrong.

Anonymous said...

"Even ten years ago your debt to income ratio on a standard loan needed to be about 30 to 35 percent. Now banks, in order to get more people into homes, are taking up to 50 and 55 percent debt to income ratio. That's a recipe for disaster,"

55% of nothing = oh, shit....

Anonymous said...

SUBPRIME LENDER===>

Fremont Delays Report; Shares Tumble
Wednesday February 28, 3:56 pm ET
Fremont General Shares Drop More Than 20 Percent After Company Delays 4Q Earnings Report

NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of Fremont General Corp. fell sharply Wednesday to hit a new 52-week low after the mortgage lender said late Tuesday it will delay reporting financial results for the fourth quarter.
Fremont, one of the largest providers of mortgage loans through brokers and lenders to people with poor credit histories, saw its shares tank $2.66, or 22.8 percent, to $8.99 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange. The stock traded as low as $8.95 earlier in the session, far below its previous 52-week low of $11.65.

Fremont also said it will not file its 2006 annual report by the March 1 regulatory deadline.

The company said it would give an explanation for the delay in a regulatory filing. The Securities and Exchange Commission had not received any such filing by mid-afternoon.

A company spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

The "subprime" mortgage industry, or the sector of mortgage banking targeting people with blemished credit, is in upheaval. A handful of companies said more borrowers are missing payments on their mortgages, hurting the value of these companies' loan portfolios.

The slowing housing market has put further pressure on the lenders since the value of the collateral backing the loans is deteriorating at the same time the loans themselves are becoming riskier.


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070228/fremont_general_mover.html?.v=1

deepcgi said...

That is exactly what has happened. Our generation has no clue how to live without credit.

The only thing missing from the picture is the class-action attorney filing a law suit on the family's behalf against anyone and everyone not stupid enough to think debt is wealth.

Anonymous said...

"Is America in the mess it's in today because The Greatest Generation is dying off"

If that generation was so great, how did their kids turn out to be such losers?

Natural Eyebrows said...

Good question, Keith. My mother used to try to tell me about the Depression. I scoffed at her attempts to instill conservative financial values and fear of financial dislocation in me. I had to reach 35 years of age to appreciate all that. As others have said on this blog, America will never see economic health again until we rid ourselves of this universal sense of entitlement.

Anonymous said...

You and your Google ads are the epitome of living on pennies per day. Keep up the hard work Keith!

David in JAX said...

I believe we are in this state because of our poor education system in America. I went to public school in the eighties and we didn't even discuss the causes of the great depression. We were taught that the stock market crashed, people threw themselves out of windows, we were poor, and then FDR saved us. It was a one hour discussion that didn't go into any of the economic causes or effects.

When I was older, I asked my grandfather about the great depression. He said it really didn't affect anyone he knew because they were all poor anyway. But, I knew he was full of BS because he saved and reused everything. When he died he had large amounts of cash saved behind a wall board in his laundry hamper. At that moment, it was obvious to me that the affects were so terrible that he made up stories because he didn't want to talk abou it.

Magon said...

Greatest Generation? NOT!

My generation- the hippies- are the REAL 'greatest generation'; we
got rid of that nazi-lovin' jingoistic piece of shit Agnew. Along with
ousting Nixon, getting the U.S. out of Vietnam, ending the draft,
inventing: drugs sex and rock-n-roll, free love, feminism, Civil
Rights, gay/lesbian liberation...the list of the accomplishments of
the hippies just goes on and on.
And later in life we invented slacking, adult diapers and creamed corn. Go figure.

The more I think about all the accomplishments of my generation, the
TRUE 'greatest generation'; the hippies- the more I wonder why there
is no statue commemorating our triumphs?
Think of it; statue of a hippie and his "old lady" (that's what we
called our girl-friends back then), love beads around their necks,
flowers in their long hair that's held by leather head bands, blue or
red 'granny glasses on both, paisley shirt for him- tie-dye for her,
fringed leather jackets for both, bare feet below super-wide bell-
bottoms and both giving the 'peace' sign! The statue would be 69
feet high (of course), face San Francisco and the inscription would
read simply: "GROOVY"
The Capitol Mall in Washington, D.C. is a fitting place.
Not that we really NEED a statue like that- humankind will never
forget our words and deeds which so irrevocably changed the world.

Flagg707 said...

The "Greatest" Generation didn't do such a great job of teaching the Baby Boomers about the Great Depression, so that part doesn't worry me much.

Unfortunately, these once-in-a-century (or maybe once-in-five-centuries in this case) type of collapses teach lessons that have to be learned through experience, not books or listening to stories.

Actually, you could say the "Greatest" Generation has saddled Americans with a Welfare State that will be need tremendous amounts of tax revenue to feed and which will be horribly tough to reform. Frankly, I say cut off their subsidized meds - they can earn money by selling podcasts of their Great Depression stories to make up the difference.

Richard said...

Yep Keith - my grandma is 92...she has spoke in length of the great depression...she worked as a hair dresser and my grandfather worked in a coal factory...died at 62 of black lung.

They lived with 12 others in a 2 room flat...had a garden...knew how to sew...canned food...used the bus or trolley etc.

Most today in the industrialized world:

1) think thier home is gonna save them and their car defines them as humans

2) have no idea where their food comes from AND HOW DEPENDENT OUR FOOD PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION IS LINKED TO CHEAP OIL, and

3) have no clue where our electricity comes from and the dire state of our fossil fuel supplies are in.

Once again Keith you are right...the great depression folk are dying off...my grandmother may live to 100 - that is 8 years off.

In 8 years...4 out of 10 will be dead on this planet...in 10 - 15 years 7 out 10 and in 20 - 30 years 90% of us USELESS EATERS will be dead.

The human project will have failed - and it was a ONE TIME shot at getting it right.

So Keith - we are not far behind my grandmother.

The Thinker said...

The housing market correction will do more good than harm to the standard of living in the United States. It is near tragic that most Americans must spend 90% of their paychecks on mortgage payments and thus cannot put away a penny to save for the future. A correction in housing prices will restore sanity and free up money for the retail spending that drives our economy.

Anonymous said...

The Great Depression was planed and caused by the Fed. Bank as part of thier demonstration of "control" over the US Government. The Great Depression II, that you forecast, is with afore knowledge and intent as well, imo, and is all part of the redistribution of wealth.

So, in a word no.

Hamsters are eaisly replaced.

Guy Daley said...

Hey, what is the point of learning history when we never learn from it anyway. It is ALWAYS new and different this time. History is worthless. Point in case.

Last big oil crisis, in the late 70s with the oil embargo. We were driving giant guzzlers then. What are we doing today? So did we learn from history? That little lesson was quickly swept under the rug.

Anonymous said...

Robert Bly,author of "Iron John:A Book About Men",wrote in the sequel,"The Sibling Society" some very interesting observations about The Greatest Generation versus the Baby Boom Generation.

He noted that all you had to do was to look at a picture of the crowd attending a baseball game at Yankee Stadium during the 1940s and one of a present day crowd. "The adults looked like adults;they actually wore coats and ties to the baseball game,and they behaved like adults." What we call adults today are nothing more than overgrown teenagers.

What truly separates the Greatest Generation from the Baby Boomers is the principle of long term strategic planning and all that it entails: FDR had Social Security and the New Deal, JFK and LBJ had the New Frontier/Great Society. There was a supreme belief that it was the duty of the wealthy and privileged to better the condition of the common man and his children. Big business was subservient to the government of the people and not the other way around.

With the baby boomers, you can kiss all of the above good bye. Bly predicted that once the baby boomers entered positions of power: The White House, The Congress, Wall Street, Fortune 500 companies,etc. we would begin to see a fast deterioration of the social fabric and safety net due to the boomer's incessant need for instant profits, lack of vision and planning, and overall immaturity.

Richard said...

Yes -

Yen Carry down 125 - unbelievable...

Worse than tuesday.

It is done...so hath it been foretold.

truthsquad said...

My parents taught me well and I've teached mine:
Here in Arizona with all the retailers trying to establish a presence,there's
a pharmacy war raging. Numerous coupons as $20 OR $25 GIFT CARDS for new or transferred prescriptions and even stores that don't offer their own, will accept and match the competitors.
So entire family was at doctors due to stubborn cases of flu/bronchitis because of terrible Phoenix air/weather and wound up with almost 20 prescriptions.
Drove around to every nearby pharmacy/supermarket/chainstore in a leisurely day and half and proudly netted over $400 dollars in cash cards from supermarkets like Frys, Safeway and Walgreen and CVS simply by filling prescriptions with COUPON.
I seek and use any coupon even if it's pennies off.
Oh..I'm a middled-aged high school dropout, multimillionaire (cash, like in green), retired at age 45 for good, have two mortgage-free incoming producing properties in NYC,(Manh. & Quen.) and drive a car that will be 20 years old this September with over 350k miles, while having more in my checking account than other's entire net worth.
And yes, I rent a house ,would absolutely never step in a Wal-Mart, even if it was all gratis, and think that Bush/Cheney and whoever voted them in and still supports them are all major league A-Holes and destined to a life of ignorance and onanism.

M

tmaioli said...

Market down 200 and going south! Run for the hills!

Anonymous said...

Sad part is they qualify for a no money down mortgage in CA.

Anonymous said...

Debt is a rut and a rut is just a Grave with the Ends kicked out. These FB'ers and GF's are Dead already...they just don't KNOW it !

Anonymous said...

If nobody is there to teach the lessons of The Great Depression, and the American education system spits out PS2 addicted dolts who don't know their history...

Yeah, that's a big problem... I was called a "teacher hater" because I questioned the quality of learning during my student teaching days.

And I still believe, more than ever, that teachers do the wrong thing by becoming "better teachers" because it's the students who should be deciding, within limits, how much, how long, how well, how good, etc... Otherwise, I think you turn out co-dependent parrots. The teaching research shows that most A students forget what they learn within a year or two unless they teach it to themselves.

I'm happy that I "broke out" and started reading. I felt happy to think: "wow, Business 2.0, the magazine, has degraded from a literate magazine to a bunch of nonsense..."

With deflation (more people can do the same thing), Americans can't settle for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, like we once could and the "greatest generation" will be humbled to see that Indians, Koreans, Chinese, etc... can easily do what they did...

No longer will people believe hook, line and sinker that outsourcing is fundamentally limited to "low skilled jobs" because of the stupidity of people outside the united states.

Anonymous said...

Yes, there are sociological implications that the Great Depression generation is no longer in office. The problem in the 1920s was a massive expansion of credit and payment plans. The loose lending standards let out too much slack and when no more buyers stepped up, the slack tightened almost overnight into a noose.

Stability was achieved by requiring a 20% down payment for a mortgage and a fixed interest rate. Well, the mantra of recent years has been "regulation is anti-growth". So one-by-one, the safety nets have been cut and the marketplace began to run. Now we're in a position where banks will need to raise cash for their books (although the Feds recently lessened that requirement.) With the sub-prime easy money and negative influence on the big banks leaving the marketplace, down payments will return along with the popularity of fixed interest rates. That also means housing affordability will plummet...

Anonymous said...

This was an interesting link from patrick.net:

Fed Is Ready and Willing To Act

So, butch, don't hold your breath for sanity! I decided a long time ago that they only rational reason to put money in the stock market was because it was being "artificially propped up" somehow.

I tend to think that the "retiring boomers" will tank the economy if they only plan to graze like cattle and stop contributing their energies to their communities through work....

I hope that they don't have to be hit over the head to make that choice...

Anonymous said...

...and they wouldn't even qualify for a Bank of America credit card!

sinis said...

Funny... when my grandmother was alive she used to tell me that the most important thing to her and her family during the Great Dep. was food. Even to the day she died, though she had lots of liquid money, she never really spent much. I always asked her why not go buy a new car, god knows she had the money. She would always ask me why, since her older Oldsmobile worked fine and got her from point A to point B. She also said, who would pay the bill? She did not believe in racking up loans, liens, etc. She was not a big spender for clothing, etc. She had a nice house, so she was not a pauper. The MOST important thing to her, 'till the day she died was having food. She ALWAYS had name brand food, deli meat, etc., always. Funny how the priorities change between three generations...

Anonymous said...

The greatest generation didn't pass on their financial sense specifically because many of the financial gimmicks available today didn't exist or were very limited in scope in 1930 - no verification loans, interest only loans, multitudes of credit cards, etc. They weren't without fault - specifically they allowed the expansion of a large federal government at the expense of the constitution, but you have to understand they were locked in an epic struggle with communism and fascism. The greatest error, however, was allowing liberal justices to take over the supreme court and removing God from public culture.

vegas crash watcher said...

The "Greatest Generation" were statist suckers who helped destroy freedom in the US and helped preserve communism in the USSR for decades longer than it should have.
They can join FDR in Hell.

Anonymous said...

thinker said:

It is near tragic that most Americans must spend 90% of their paychecks on mortgage payments

Nobody is spending 90% of their income on a mortgage. Aren't you the same guy who said 90% of the population will die in 10 years?

Get a grip man you sound like a lunatic.

Anonymous said...

Greatest Generation my ass.

This generation of idiots voted for the socialist FDR 4 times. Thanks greatest generation for introducing social security, welfare and medicare, and growing the government as well as tax rates exponentially.

Not content with that, they vote for Kennedy after Kennedy and Nixon too.

Up until 1965 only white Europeans were allowed to immigrate. Then thanks to a member of this great Generation (Ted Kennedy D-MA) the rules changed. Now instead of Europeans we have millions of non-whites immigrating every year. Thanks Greatest Generation for leaving me a USA that will be 60% Latino/Asian within my lifetime.

Up until 1971 every dolar was backed by 1/35th of an ounce of gold. Then a member of this great generation (Nixon) decided that was a bad idea. Thanks Greatest Generation for ensuring that at some point in the future my money will be worth nothing.

So please spare me this crap about greatness. The only way greatness is to be associated with those people is in the follwing way: They took a GREAT country and fucked it up royally.

Anonymous said...

Hey, STRIKER, where's that site which compares the Great Depression with current conditions? I couldn't find it anymore. Please post the link again so readers can be amazed by all the similarities.

Anonymous said...

"Not content with that, they vote for Kennedy after Kennedy and Nixon too."

Both Kennedys were so good that they got murdered. The bad ones live a long life peeing on the back of the sheeple, like the ones in power right now.

Anonymous said...

"hen thanks to a member of this great Generation (Ted Kennedy D-MA) the rules changed."

Oh yeah, Ted Kennedy acted alone on that one. The corporations and the New World Order (Bush & company) are the ones bringing cheap labor into the country. It's companies like your favorite Wal-Mart that come up with these profit-making schemes at the expense of American jobs and quality of life. Please, stop getting your news from Fox TV people!

Anonymous said...

JUST KEEP RENTING

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, Ted Kennedy acted alone on that one. The corporations and the New World Order (Bush & company) are the ones bringing cheap labor into the country. It's companies like your favorite Wal-Mart that come up with these profit-making schemes at the expense of American jobs and quality of life. Please, stop getting your news from Fox TV people!

Right it was fox news and Walmart that changed the immigration laws in 1965. Whatever Cletus.

Anonymous said...

"new world order"? Wow people still use that term, hmm, interesting. I thought it was gone with the 1980s. Guess, like fashion trends, paranoid conspiracy trends follow 20 year cycles.

Anonymous said...

oh and exactly how is the "New" World Order new anymore? You dimwits have been using the term for 100 years. Shouldn't it be jus "The World Order" by now?

I mean shit, how long can it be new for?

Anonymous said...

Only people who think America is in a mess are socialist scum like you. For you prosperity and success is the worst possible thing since it drives more and more people away from your already discredited ideas.

Richard said...

"Aren't you the same guy who said 90% of the population will die in 10 years? "

Nope ...Thinker and myself are worlds apart.

I said that.

And you may be well served to read EVERYTHING at:

Dieoff.org

Then come back here and post something relevant...researched...and true.

Anonymous said...

It says "New World Order" on the $1 bill.

Dumbasses.

Anonymous said...

Grandfather born in 1894, lived to 90.....advice, Save, don't buy what you can't afford! Live within your means, before your means dictate how you live!

Thanx gramps!

Shakster said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hard assets said...

These people have it good. I know a guy who lives with his family in a tent trailer, borrowed from his brother, in a camp ground. He lost his house, and he helps the manager in the camp ground clean the grounds for space rent. They have flash lights and candles to see at night!
Guy lost his job due to a back injury, and he is fighting workmen's comp. I lent him money to buy food, and the church gave him some of their rations.

Anonymous said...

"Right it was fox news and Walmart that changed the immigration laws in 1965. Whatever Cletus."

First of all, I'm an independent, so save all that Republican BS for Democrats. The biggest explosion of immigration happened under Bush's administration. It gets better, as the housing market collapses, all those 20 million plus illegals, who were working in construction or committing mortgage fraud, will wait for Bush's amnesty, so they can can freeload on welfare and continue to make cash on the side with fraud or small odd jobs, without paying any taxes. Meanwhile, lots of corporations are lobbying hard to give residency to illegals, so they continue to profit and depress wages of Americans. For instance, check these Republicans out:

http://tinyurl.com/2jqokd

Since the worst president of the US, Bush (well, Cheney is the one pulling the strings), took over, there's a bigger invasion of illegals. Someone has to build those homes cheap so homebuilders can have bigger profits, right? Hey, ask any American if they don't feel the difference in the amount of immigrants since 2000. It wasn't this bad in the 80s or 90s, but now there are illegals all the way up to Maine and Connecticut, and Bush wants to bring more and keep the border open. Ask anyone who lives up there to find out when that invasion started to happen. The New World Order is not something that goes away, it's not a fad, it's a plan by organized groups in power. Get to know the puppet masters through the links below. Pay attention to all the names involved and their respective positions in power:

http://tinyurl.com/2latzo

http://tinyurl.com/2q2oyh

http://tinyurl.com/bzt37

http://tinyurl.com/pd7hz

http://tinyurl.com/csxls

Anonymous said...

Get to know more of your puppet masters:

http://tinyurl.com/2y6shz

Pay attention to the businesses they are involved with. They all belong to a small an cozy group, making little wars here, little crisis there. Funny how grown up men need to be in little groups like that, huh? Why is that?

Anonymous said...

"If that generation was so great, how did their kids turn out to be such losers?"

Because they had everything given to them.

Anonymous said...

First of all, I'm an independent, so save all that Republican BS for Democrats. The biggest explosion of immigration happened under Bush's administration.

Lay off the crack pipe friend. Illegal immigration has been a growing problem since the late 70s. I grew up in Houston and ever since I can remember, gardners, janitors, pool guys and McDonald's workers were illegals.

The biggest explosion was actually in the 1990s. That is when the illegals started not only being a problem in Texas and California but also in Georgia, N. Carolina, Oklahoma, etc.

Between 1990 and 2000 the population of illegals doubled, as in it went up 100% as in it EXPLODED. And in places like N. Carolina it went up exponentially by 1000% or more.

http://tinyurl.com/yporha

I'm no fan of Bush, but blaming him for the illegal problem is ridiculous. Just shows yet again how out of touch with reality you numbnuts are.

As for the "Im an independent" bullshit, yeah sure your are. Whenever I hear someone say I'm an independent it means I vote for Democrats 99% of the time but like to pretend I'm open to all ideas.
So fine you're an independent, you're still a fucking moron.

Anonymous said...

"I'm no fan of Bush"

Yes you are. You must be one of those naive guys who kiss Cheney's picture before going to bed, and believe that Iraq has anything to do with 9-11. As a matter of fact, you must be one of those sheeple who believe that Al-Qaeda had anything to do with 9-11.

The biggest explosion of illegal immigration happened under Bush, since there was no housing bubble in the 90s. Who was building all these homes around the country since 2002? You can spin the way you want, but you won't convince anyone because everybody can feel the difference between the amount of immigrants in the 90s and now. Stop watching Fox News and stick around this blog to become a little bit smarter.

Anonymous said...

If that generation was so great, how did their kids turn out to be such losers?

YUP Boomers are so the 'me' generation so spoiled.