January 11, 2007

Looking for deals in "wildly overbuilt" bubble markets... "Threre's going to be blood in the water"


For those of you patiently hording cash, cutting expenses, and renting... your day will come. If you're out there making low-ball offers (50% off?) your day may already be here.

Don't forget, it's all about the P/E ratio. It always is. It always will be.

Jonas Lee spends most days driving slowly through unfamiliar neighborhoods. He may look lost -- constantly leaning out the window, craning his head in contorted ways -- but don't be fooled.

He's doing the most critical part of his job: scoping out homes for his Washington, D.C., investment firm, Redbrick Partners, to add to its growing stable of rental properties.

Lee is doing more drive-bys than ever these days. A handful of housing markets, such as southern Florida and certain neighborhoods of Washington, D.C., are wildly overbuilt.

Prices are dropping. And developers who raced to build new houses and condos during the boom are likely to soon be begging for buyers.

"There's going to be blood in the water," Lee says. "A big pileup."

South Florida's 'Ugly' Future

So where is Redbrick prospecting now? No region has Lee more bullish than southern Florida -- where the long-term prospects are attractive but, as Redbrick co-founder Tom Skinner puts it, the near-term fundamentals are "out of whack."

It's a new market for Redbrick, and Lee, who has been scouting parts of Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and Fort Myers, predicts that buying opportunities will begin in early 2007.
"The next couple of years will be ugly," he says, optimistically.

Lee says developers are offering condos in the region at 20 percent below appraisal value. Redbrick expects the discount to grow to 40 percent because developers lose money every day they own a property. Making the equation even more appealing is that rental prices are holding steady.

30 comments:

Anonymous said...

i'm sure you will find some "killer" deals here:

Arsenic, lead found at site of new upscale homes in Wellington

By Stephanie Horvath
South Florida Sun-Sentinel
Posted January 10 2007

WELLINGTON -- Centex Homes has discovered elevated levels of arsenic and lead at its 202-home Oakmont Estates development.

luv this quote:

"Centex knew when it bought the property in 2005 that there was arsenic"


see link:
http://tinyurl.com/shn6a

Anonymous said...

Time to pucker up Greg Swan!!!


“More than 800 people registered for the Urban Land Institute’s real estate trends conference, going on today in downtown Phoenix.”

“One of the big questions on people’s minds is what’s next for Phoenix housing. A panel that included a top land broker and some building executives agree one one thing: There’s more pain ahead before the market bottoms.”

“‘What we saw (in the boom), we’ll never see again in our lifetimes,’ said Steve Hilton, CEO of Scottsdale-based Meritage Homes.”

Anonymous said...

My brother down in Sarasota is laughing his a#$ off. He bought his house in 1997 for $75,000. He was told in 2005 it was worth around $300,000---> if the house was gone. "What am I paying homeowner's insurance for?", he asked. So he canceled it. His property is worth more with the house gone anyway he was told. He watched a Realtor/Flipper buy the house across the street for $320,000, put $50,000 into upgrades, and now has it listed for $495,000--- no wait, $450,000---no wait, ect., ect,. It is now priced at break even after more than a year on the market with no showings and they can't even rent it.

Anonymous said...

Where will the bottom be? Will banks continue to lend in an atmosphere of depreciating assets? Will consumers be willing to take on more debt? Can they service their debt in an economy of falling asset prices?

Anonymous said...

greg swann has no money for noodles (please go to bloodhound realty and donate)

Anonymous said...

Bring it big, baby.
Every day I save more cash to mop up more blood in the churning waters.

Anonymous said...

It's a new market for Redbrick, and Lee, who has been scouting parts of Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and Fort Myers, predicts that buying opportunities will begin in early 2007.

"The next couple of years will be ugly," he says, optimistically.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

He's doing the most critical part of his job: scoping out homes for his Washington, D.C., investment firm, Redbrick Partners, to add to its growing stable of rental properties.


Will we see a rental bubble??

Anonymous said...

Lee says developers are offering condos in the region at 20 percent below appraisal value. Redbrick expects the discount to grow to 40 percent because developers lose money every day they own a property. Making the equation even more appealing is that rental prices are holding steady.

Here you go Chauncy! If HE'S willing to admit it, why can't you??

Dr Housing Bubble said...

Also be careful of areas where California Equity Giants™ shifted a lot of their money. For example Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico. These areas appreciated because of the halo effect of growth in coastal regions. In addition, as an investor be cautious about dumping money in new developments in areas with cheap land. You can always buy a cheap house but is there a base to support your property via income by the local population?

The odd thing is we rarely here about income meeting housing prices something tantamount to P/E with stocks. The water is just getting warmed up for 2007.

Dr. Housing Bubble

blogger said...

Millions of UK ARM loan holders just got punked by the bank of england today...

LONDON (Reuters) - The Bank of England is reluctant to admit it, but the surging housing market may lurk behind Thursday's shock decision to hike the cost of borrowing.

House prices rose much faster than expected last year, beating off two interest rate rises and raising fears that more and more new buyers are being pushed outside the realms of affordability and, worse, that a bubble is forming again.

The BoE raised rates to 5.25 percent on Thursday, wrong footing 49 out of 50 economists polled by Reuters and citing the need to tame inflation which is threatening to spiral even further above its 2.0 percent target.


There was no mention of house prices -- but some analysts believe they could not have been too far down the agenda.

"A majority of Monetary Policy Committee members believe that recently higher inflation, the buoyant housing market, evidence of ongoing overall relatively robust growth ... warrants further precautionary action now," said Howard Archer, an economist at Global Insight.

Anonymous said...

RISMEDIA, Jan. 11, 2007-(MCT)-Las Vegas median home prices dropped to $306,100 in December, down 2% from the same month a year ago, and the inventory of homes for sale shrank for the second straight month to 17,834, the Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors reported Monday.


All this doom and gloom and yet prices are down 2%. Inventory is shrinking. WOW, HP!!! A 2% drop YOY. Run for the hills!!

What's the story in Phoenix? WOW!! A 4% drop there!! Jeepers Creepers!!

While sales activity declined 40 percent, the median home price increased 8.4 percent from $240,500 in 2005 to $260,600. While this is another record year, the median price has been steadily declining during the year from $267,000 in June to $255,900 in December, which is the lowest median price since $255,000 was reported in July 2005.


Come on HP, this waiting for a crash is getting kinda boring don't you think?

Anonymous said...

"Come on HP, this waiting for a crash is getting kinda boring don't you think?
"
This is a slow moving train wreck that's just getting started... Check back in a few years debtor.

geesssshhh what a moron.

Anonymous said...

RE: Bank of England increasing rates by 25 basis points.

That ought to affect(increase) LIBOR surely and concommitant with that ARM rates in the USA.

-K

Anonymous said...

Maybe this is what Easy Al Greenspan was talking about when he commented on 'froth' in the markets.

Anonymous said...

18 months into the great crash and we have a 2% drop in home prices....yeah sure it's a slow moving train wreck

whatever renter. check back in a few yers when prices are up 15% from now

Anonymous said...

The 'crash' in some bubble markets will be fast and hard, like Florida and parts of California.

The crash in others will be prices staying flat for 10 years while cost of ownership goes up. Since the majority of houses are only lived in for 5-6 years before people move, prices staying flat minus real estate commissions will mean most home sellers will lose money.

Very, very few people who buy houses between 2005-2010, and sell them in under 15 years, will not lose money. And that will be millions and millions of families who have to move due to job relocation or loss, or outgrowing their current houses due to having children.

This is a complete flip in real estate dynamics. The history of US real estate from 1940-2004 was that families who bought real estate and held for at least 5 years in almost every case made money or broke even.

So to the millions of families who will lose money on real estate going forward, it will be a very real crash. Add to that other costs such as paying more payroll taxes to support the retiring baby boomers...future generations will have it much tougher than previous generations financially.

That is also a complete reversal of US history.

Anonymous said...

Renter,

If you are going to use an example at least make sure you do the math right. Example isn't down 10% he's down 9%. You don't add 6+4 to get 10% genius. And he isn't down $50,000 he is down less than $40,000.

Flipper buys for $400K. Price falls 4%. Means he sells for 96% of $400K or $384K. Then on that he pays 6% comission of $23,040.

Total selling price is $360,960 or a loss of $39,040.

I love these financial geniuses who don't even undestand the basic concept of percetages.

Nice try kiddies, but just leave the math and finance to the adults huh?

james dean said...

Will prices drop alot? Hmm, not sure. Some places, yes, some, no. Some will even go up.

But what is more absurd? HPers expecting price drops to occur after the longest and most unprecedented rise in history spurred on by 40 year lows in rates which are sure to rise, rise, rise.

Or FBers thinking this wont happen?!? Come on people. You should know better!

Anonymous said...

> What's the story in Phoenix?
> WOW!! A 4% drop there!! Jeepers
> Creepers!!

Flipper puts $200K cash down on a $1mm McMansion has lost $40K in value 20%. It will cost him at least 6% more to sell so he has lost at least $100K, when you look at the carry cost over the past year and other costs including "staging" odds are the typical flipper has lost his entire $200K life savings...

Anonymous said...

He loses 50K. 4% may not sound like much to you but to that flipper it's a disaster


Wait. What? "LOSE"?? You're not suppose to LOSE in real estate!!

foxwoodlief said...

Wow 20% off! Lets run out and shop till we drop! Like I pay any attention at the mall to all those sale signs saying 50% off or 75% off. First we know the mark up and at 75% it is still 100% profit. Second all the items with the greatest discounts nobody really wants..the stuff you may want like a food processor or such may be advertised at 10% off..wow, a bargain, let me rush out and buy!

So what if medium price in some markets are down over 2006 or even 2005. If the prices went up 40% and the medium is higher in 2007 even with the drop than say 2004, what does that mean?

I know I can go to Phoenix and maybe buy a house in Casa Grande or Maricopa for less than 2005 but who wants to live 50-60 miles from downtown? Any saving would be lost in gasoline. Those houses are like those items in the mall, 75% discount because no one wants to live in them.

I've watched the condo conversion I use to rent in and prices haven't really dropped much. Yes, when they introduced them to the market the last quarter of 2005 they wanted $425,000 for a 2/2 1450 sq ft unit and now....wow, $375,000 so you could say they dropped the price over 15%...wow. Problem is they bought them for a lot less and they are still overpriced and they can still make a profit. They've been marketing them for 18 months now and refuse to lower them down to say $140 a sq ft, which is still too much but hey they are downtown and close to the light rail but at $258 a sq ft? Please.

If condos are the canaries in the coal mine then what does this say after 18 months? The owners can afford to carry them empty and refuse to dump them so what does that say about the market? I don't know how many they've sold, guess I'd have to walk into their sales office and look at their vacancy board but the fact they still are marketing them for those prices baffles me.

Wow, 20% off in hot markets in Florida? Naples? Like 20% off a $800,000 2/2 condo is a bargain? Please.

I'm constantly baffled at the prices and I think $350,000 for a Mansion with every bell and whistle is obscene at $100 a sq ft and then I see all over the country crackerboxes for twice to three times that.

And cars? Dropped mine off for service and saw a VW Tourag...not much of a car in my opinion. Thought it might go for $35,000....the sticker was $67-75,000! For a car for cripes sake...not even a really nice one! I'm amazed at all those $35,0000 to $75,000 cars for sale...and people buying! Makes those $300,000 homes sound affordable.

Anonymous said...

Yo yo yo.

'S coo', bro. Darnell da realuhta' talkin' at ya'.

Some idiot wrote, dig dis: "Lee says developuh's is offerin' condos in de region at 20 puh'cent blow ‘ppraisal value. Redbrick 'espects de discount t'grow t'40 puh'cent cuz' develop's lose bre'd every day dey own some propuh'ty. Slap mah fro! Makin' de equashun even mo'e appealin' be dat rental prices is holdin' steady. Slap mah fro!" You's gotss ta call me now and I'll show ya' how t'make real bre'd now! Right on!

So Iz sain: listen t'm mah' homeys. Dere be always oppo'tunity in de markets. While some sucka's twait on de sidelines scared, de blod go in and make moves. Dis be wehere havin' some trusted real estate pr’feshnal real pays. It be highly educated and trained sucka's likes me dat kin save ya' dousnads uh dollars o' make ya' serious change! Word! Now be probably de raple best time t'steal in de lasy 50 years and dat's de trud. Dere be no betta' time dan now, befo'e prices reach unbeleivable levels dis summer.

Ah be baaad... Dat be a fact ya' kin snatch t'de bank. Ya' know? Call me and ah' gots'ta show ya' de way. Slap mah fro! –

--Darnell da realuhter

Miss Goldbug said...

“‘What we saw (in the boom), we’ll never see again in our lifetimes,’ said Steve Hilton, CEO of Scottsdale-based Meritage Homes.”


Finally, the truth for once!

Miss Goldbug said...

Come on HP, this waiting for a crash is getting kinda boring don't you think?


Be patient. The boom didnt happen overnight, neither will the crash...

Anonymous said...

Wait for nuclear 9/11 and then you'll see a real housing crash. Especially in big cities.

blogger said...

No crash eh? Sales off 40% to 50% aren't enough for you?

Poor real estate clerks. If I was in a business where sales tanked 40% in ONE YEAR I'd be looking for new work hasta pronto

Anonymous said...

Flipper puts $200K cash down on a $1mm McMansion has lost $40K in value 20%. It will cost him at least 6% more to sell so he has lost at least $100K, when you look at the carry cost over the past year and other costs including "staging" odds are the typical flipper has lost his entire $200K life savings...

Yeah and this is the case in what, 1 in 25,000 home purchases? Get some perspective man, how many investors took $200K and put it into 1 house?

Think for a second. Most investors put $0 of their own money. They went the Casey Serin route where it was all borrowed money, 100% financing. And the vast majority of flipper homes were the small and cheap homes. Even in the best of times a $1M home takes a long time to sell. Nobody invests $200K hoping to flip it in a month.

As for the 6% you fools keep mentioning, I have sold 3 homes, 2 of them I paid 4% the other 4.5%. 6% is like MSRP, do you pay MSRP when you buy a car genius? Oh never mind, on HP everyone drives 20 year old cars so the question is N/A.

You also make its soud like in the history of manking nobody has ever lost money investing. People lose money investing every day. Every single day businesses fail, people go bankrupt. It's been happening for hundreds of years. Doesn't mean the end of the world is here. Doesn't mean an economic collapse. That is how the system works.

You seriously need some perspective. You sound like little children throwing out these random examples that have no basis in reality.

Anonymous said...

We have a radio spot here in San Diego that says, "Many people made a fortune in the housing market in the last couple of years. Did you miss out in the housing market? Now is your next chance to get in before your priced out again!"

Now I know the end is near, when you try a cheezy ad like that!

Anonymous said...

But challenge this common belief and you'll find that no one knows a six-figure valet. Perhaps it's an urban legend, yet another exaggeration in a city that hypes fantasy until people believe it.


if you can't proof it, it isn't real.