America died a bit this week
I wish Olbermann would write for a resistance leader. Or maybe by default he now is that resistance leader.
Why are college students not protesting, rioting and taking over buildings?
Why isn't there a full-time protest outside the gates of the White House tonight?
Where is the outrage? Where are the demonstrations? Where is even the knowledge of what is happening?
Ignorant, self-centered and brain-dead Americans have sealed their fate by allowing this administration and its poodle congress to essentially eliminate the Constitution, declare martial law, and end 230 years of democracy this week.
Democrat, Independent and Republican - at least listen to this video. You owe it to yourself. It's inspiring.
This is a sad, sad, shameful day for America. My hope is that the housing ponzi scheme collapse serves as a wake-up call for America.
America is no longer what it seems.
170 comments:
Olbermann is on fire!!!
Keith - why don't you link infowars.com or prisonplanet.com on HP??
Alex Jones and Olbermann are of the same mold.
Yeah Keith you are so right! These terrorists are really good guys, even though in their past they deliberately targeted civilians in America, Britain, and Spain.
They should be made U.S. citizens and given court appointed lawyers and given all the right U.S. citizens have. We should play by high morals during war while are enemy plays by no rules what so ever.
Enjoy Olbermann while he's on TV. He'll be fired in about oh I don't know 3 hours ago.
Things go in cycles. Unfortunately politics doesn’t draw many young people. Even though every part of our lives is affected by the laws and regulations we vote (or don’t) vote in. I’m not sure what the future holds for America in terms of politics and creating a system that allows more than only two parties. If anything, many young voters feel that politics is broken down to a perfect science so why vote or get involved?
I always tell people to get involved at some level regardless of your party affiliation. Yet with so much political consulting and statistician running numbers about blue and red states it is what Carl Jung described as making everyone a spec in a large crowd. Until we can see people on an individual level, we will not be able to see the whole.
Protecting American lives should not be the highest virtue, protecting and preserving American values & constitution should be the highest virtue.
Ends does not and should not justify the means.
You think this arrogant and dumb president would understand that?
GrandInquisitor, that was bad because they were American citizens. Enemy combatants are not American citizens.
It's dead issue folks, you think some man in Peoria cares that enemy combatants can't get a fair trial. No.
Keith Olbermann is not accurate. The bill which passed the Senate with Democratic support (65 votes) does not do away with Habeas Corpus for enemy combatants or anyone else. I don't know what he's talking about. He's usually more accurate.
Thank you Keith and Mr. Olbermann.
Yes, where is the outrage? What’s going on? How did we become brain-dead Americans? Will anyone listen? Something terrible is happening!!!
*Watch video*
Keep up the good fight!!
Richard,
Thanks for welcoming me. Are you still unemployed? Still posting under 5 different names. Actually I like when you post under one of your usual names, I can just go ahead and skip it. Look I can get you a job, seriously, I'm hiring.
Oberman Has A Good Source of Information. He Interviewd professor of constitutional law at George Washington University.
Here is the Entire Transcript of the Interview.
Keith Olbermann & Constitutional
Law Prof Jonathan Turley
On Military Commissions Act
MSNBC
10-18-6
To assess what this law will truly mean for us all, I'm joined by Jonathan Turley, professor of constitutional law at George Washington University.
As always, sir, great thanks for your time.
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR: Thanks, Keith.
OLBERMANN: I want to start by asking you about a specific part of this act that lists one of the definitions of an unlawful enemy combatant as, quote, "a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a combatant status review tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the president or the secretary of defense."
Does that not basically mean that if Mr. Bush or Mr. Rumsfeld say so, anybody in this country, citizen or not, innocent or not, can end up being an unlawful enemy combatant?
TURLEY: It certainly does. In fact, later on, it says that if you even give material support to an organization that the president deems connected to one of these groups, you too can be an enemy combatant.
And the fact that he appoints this tribunal is meaningless. You know, standing behind him at the signing ceremony was his attorney general, who signed a memo that said that you could torture people, that you could do harm to them to the point of organ failure or death.
So if he appoints someone like that to be attorney general, you can imagine who he's going be putting on this board.
OLBERMANN: Does this mean that under this law, ultimately the only thing keeping you, I, or the viewer out of Gitmo is the sanity and honesty of the president of the United States?
TURLEY: It does. And it's a huge sea change for our democracy. The framers created a system where we did not have to rely on the good graces or good mood of the president. In fact, Madison said that he created a system essentially to be run by devils, where they could not do harm, because we didn't rely on their good motivations.
Now we must. And people have no idea how significant this is. What, really, a time of shame this is for the American system. What the Congress did and what the president signed today essentially revokes over 200 years of American principles and values.
URL:
http://tinyurl.com/y4kjkw
I'm tired of the tone of people critical of GWB. They start with the assumption he is wrong and is too stupid to realize it. So they spend all their time as if to try and enlighten him - with facts, history, logic. Why not stop all that (it has accomplished nothing in 6 years) and instead start from the point that he knows exactly what he is doing, that he has a goal and is relentlessly pursuing it?
Here Here!
what could GWB do that even the fox news republicans would be like "dude, you can't do that"
figured getting rid of the basic rights guaranteed by the constitution would upset them, being that republicans used to be about getting government off the backs of the people, but I guess not
So maybe rape? or murder? embezzlement?
people have become so closed minded by their political party that they don't see evil or wrongdoing if it's "one of their guys"
and that's (one reason) why America is heading the direction it's heading
sad.
You all seem so worried about protecting terrorist right than american right to smoke. Why don't you monkeys say something about smoking. You'll soon be outlawed for smoking inside your own home. What a stupid oppressive impotent little human you all are.
Oh Olbermann is another melodramatic hack, he's just another whinning Lib sell out!
Wha Wha... we aren't in control, destroy, bash, hype!
Any party the holds Ted Kennedy up as the Lion of the Senate is truly F'd up!
people interested in the constitution are interested in protecting every American's rights, even the idiots who don't see that their basic and fundamental right to a fair trial just got yanked
So you're saying an american smoker is not a citizen of this country? I don't see anyone protecting his right to smoke?
Vote libertarian.
"instead start from the point that he knows exactly what he is doing, that he has a goal and is relentlessly pursuing it?"
I do not have problem with what Bush's goals are, I have problem with HOW he wants to achieve his goals.
It is important that what we do, but it is much more important to know HOW to do it.
You think this arrogant and dumb president would understand that?
Keith,
people have become so close minded by their political party that they don't see evil or wrongdoing if it's "one of their guys"!
I'm sure your refering to the Dem's and that colossal gem of total ignorance Slick Willie and his 'Tool' Al Gore!
Learn something.
Click here:
Michael Badnarik's Constitution Class, Part 1 of 7
Will liberian protect american right to smoke? If so just put up a sign, I'm going to be campaigning for liberian.
Smoking being made illegal within your own home is already taking place!
An example, Smoking Tenant in a townhome with adjoining walls with a non-smoker, just an ACLU judgement away!
Vote libertarian.
Agree. But Make Sure to Vote.
So where are all those oppressive impotent little ACLU human? I'm pretty sure there're bunches cigar ACLU little human.
and absentee vote -
then they have to check the PAPER Record!!!!
Why aren't college students protesting?
Because the Powers use video cameras and identify the protestors, publicize their names, and make it hard to get financial aid.
Then the students have such enormous debt when they get out that they can't afford to do anything to hurt their chances for a job. Remember, anything that makes the news will stay on Google, and their new employers will google their names.
If they lead some sit in or were quoted in a "subversive" publication---there goes their chances, as there are plenty of subservient tools ready to take their place.
Even professors don't dare do much unless they have tenure. Just controversial research is enough to hurt their career chances, much less political activism.
don't vote 3rd party or libertarian - you might as well just not vote
have an impact. vote for "the other guy" - but the one who really could win
we live in a 2-party system, and except for national races, it'll stay that way as the rules are corrupted by those two parties to keep it at two.
so, vote against the incumbent in every single race. even the local races. every incumbent out of power. now that's a message that'll be heard loud and clear
Why not stop all that (it has accomplished nothing in 6 years) and instead start from the point that he [Bush] knows exactly what he is doing, that he has a goal and is relentlessly pursuing it?
Because then you get accused of having an "irrational hatred" of the President, as well as being an America-hating self-loathing seditious loser.
Seriously, there is plenty of eyewitness evidence that Bush is as sharp as a kumquat.
Don Rumsfeld is obviously quite intelligent, but profoundly, and utterly wrong and so egotistical he is unable to perceive it.
And then, there's Darth Cheney......
the Dark Axis around which the plans all spin
So what is your agenda? I see one for "protecting human right including terrorist right to fair trial." What about human right to smoke?
Tell me the constitution which you have been praising on gives you the right to bear arm but does not give you the right to smoke.
people have become so closed minded by their political party that they don't see evil or wrongdoing if it's "one of their guys"
I think some people actively want a tyrant.
They want the GOP Komissars imprisoning and executing "politically undesriable" people without mercy or justice, based on suspicion, because they think the victims will be the "other types".
No they do not comprehend the idea of differnet political ideologies gaining control of such a wicked apparatus---because they know that their own partisans are much more ruthless and powerful and will never let that happen.
There were many willing volunteers who enjoyed their work in the Gestapo, because they enjoyed seeing the "wrong types" suffer.
I say stop this shiet. You are willing to protect the terrorist right to fair trial but not willing to speak out for a smoker right to smoke. What is the selectivity about if not for your dirty political purposes.
Why shouldn't suspected terrorists have fair trials?
Or is any swarthy man with a beard guilty?
I find it revolting that anybody in any part of sane political discourse would deny this notion.
Smoker asked not to smoke in public:
smoker goes somewhere else, and smokes there where he doesn't bother others.
Suspected terrorist (who is actually innocent) gets no trial:
person is imprisoned, tortured, and executed.
Yes, there is a hell of a difference.
I agree autofx,
And I think the upcoming culling of the white race, may not be such a bad thing. We have become much to complacent, and much too stupid.
Give me this prop and I will vote yes anytime:
"Let's give a non-american terrorist a fair trial and give an american smoker the right to vote."
Otherwise, all of you oppressive impotent freedom advocate wannabe should shut up.
Even the most good intentioned person can make a mistake and accuse an innocent person.
Just recently a number of Afghans were flown back from the prison in Cuba---after FIVE YEARS---and dropped off in Afghanistan.
Completely uncharged, and completely innocent. What happened? Somebody else snitched on them in Afghanistan and made stuff up because they had a grudge. There was no actual evidence---and it still took 5 years.
How many were waterboarded? Who knows?
How many innocents are still there?
We barely hear a word of this, but undoubtably this is all over al-Jazeera all the time. And that makes many more real live dangerous terrorists.
I love this board and agree with most everything, except Olbermann.
This guy was a reject and terrible sportscaster on KTLA years ago. I always watched the KTLA news back then, but when he came on he was so awful we stopped watching when the sports came on. Then ESPN hired him who knows why, and again he gets canned just a few months after being hired cause he sucked. Now he's latched onto the crazy left liberal conspiracy for everything group(michael moore followers). Sorry guys 911 was not planned by the government & gas prices didnt fall because the elections were coming. Olbermann is a reject sportscaster who couldnt cut it, who turned to the conspiracy side as a last ditch effort and staying in newscasting. Although it looks like he'll be fired soon and then he can serve me breakfast at Denny's, LOL
autofx - post of the year
laugh out loud funny
What is the difference? If a smoker comes straight to you and blows smoke into your face then I say booke him. You take him to court all you want. But if you come straight into his zone and sniff up his smoke then it's up to you. So where is the difference?
Re Olbermann:
Now he's latched onto the crazy left liberal conspiracy for everything group(michael moore followers).
You mean, like reading the text of a law which was passed by Congress, and calling a law professor to find out what it means?
Real conspiracy there!
When has he accused 9/11 of being a government conspiracy? It wasn't---it was just incompetence.
Now, attacking Iraq---that was a conspiracy.
Will liberian protect american right to smoke? If so just put up a sign, I'm going to be campaigning for liberian.
Yes, of course. You own both your mind and your body, therefore only you can decide what you put in your body. That is the essence of the right to property -> ownership of oneself. This right is not granted by government, since it existed long before "government" existed.
P.S. It's spelled "libertarian."
P.P.S. Vote libertarian.
So bottom line is your interpretation of the contistution is this:
"Let's take away smoker right to smoke at his public smoking zone (where the ash bin is located) because he won't die."
"Let's give terrorist the right to free trial and let's not torture him because if not he may die."
This is the difference you're talking about. What an interpretation of the constitution eh.
What makes you think there's no "liberian" party?
keith,
what is about the word "alien" that you just cant understand?
You're not gonna be smoking in the recently refurbished KBR "detention" facility.
Indianapolis / Marion County - Amtrak railcar repair facility
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/010306gulagsforamericans.htm
ONLY an American Citizen can breach allegiance.
"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."
Subsection 4(b) (26) of section 950v. of HR 6166 "
So what? Criminals deserve hell or rights if you want to give them. We are talking about good citizen smokers here. Their only problem is cigarette .. addited or not.
Dear Keith and Richard,
HP has has 283 no 284 comments regarding and detailing the no due process for any citizin at the whim of the US Gov. and they still do not get it.
I do not understand them.
sad, so sad
Go BUSH GO!!!! YAYYYYYYYYYYY BUSH!!!!!!!!!!! I AM SO PRO RUMSFIELD!!!!!!! GO BUSH!!!! YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Prior to WW2 in 1934 the House of Commons was debating weather England should bomb Germany's munnition bunkers. Many argued it was immoral to attack another Sovereign just because they suspected it was building munitions to attack others. A mere 10 years later England was bombing Dresden to hell and over 100,000 civilians died.
Keith will be eating his words when 100k Americans die because the Democrats were to whimpy to protect us.
It seems like everyone has the right to interpret the constitution the way he/she understands it. Republican interpretation of the constitution is different that democrat's ... ha ha ... I really like this. Why are you so upset? The constitution give you, me and everyone else the right to understand it differently (well not like binary but slightly different). It is a joke if you think you understand it better than Pre. Bush, Pre. Clinton or John Kerry? Or even better than I do.
stupid, uneducated, aggression does not protect us.
It is making us more vulnerable.
Read this history of Mao in China, and how millions of people never resisted even as millions were killed.
http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/28/6199/helmsman.asp?nid=6199&wid=28
Honestly, I see no hope of any resistance in the corporate media-fed uS population.
Blogging is intellectually fascinating, but really does it do anything of substance?
Freedoms? You don't need no stinking freedoms. Yayyy Bush! Implant RFIDs into every citizen, install monitoring cameras in every house, burn all the subversive books, put everybody who speaks out against Bush into concentration camps!!!
YAYYY Bush! Yayyy Rummy!! Yayy Cheney!!!
"Blogging is intellectually fascinating, but really does it do anything of substance?"
Why resist. You'll only make things worse for yourself.
Kweef:
You are a stupid leftist. Read the essay by John Yoo in the Wall Street Journal today.
I'm sick of leftists who have only sympathy for the enemies of Western civilization. Whining about habeus corpus for enemy combatants who represent the most retrograde doctrine save for environmentalism only confirms what motivates the left. The left hides behind such self-ascribed motives as banning torture, defending the rights of the accused, when in fact, what they want is to hamstring this country in its war against radical islamists or islamofascists.
Should we have let Nazi soldiers during WWII sue Franklin Roosevelt in court because their "rights" were violated?
The left is no defender of freedom and never was. They are part of the anti-enlightenment that started with Immanuel Kant in the late 18th century. The left has been a proponent of the most viscious, anti-human doctrines to ever be invented. Now they are getting in bed with Islamic fundamentalists. At heart, they are nihilists who worship violence and yearn not only for their own destruction, but the destruction of civilization.
Sure.
stupid, uneducated, aggression does not protect us.
But what do? Be more specific. Propose some solution if you can.
"Why resist. You'll only make things worse for yourself."
I will die on my feet
not my knees
There is a very simple solution to all these problems.
Don't worry about them! Put your head into the sand!
Think about it. Who suffers the most in the world? The people who worry about what's going on! The philosophers, starving artists, political dissidents, martyrs, etc.
The average person is happy and content with their life! They don't worry about people dying next door as long as they have their beer and their cable T.V.! When things get really bad they don't worry if their own mother is killed as long as they aren't the ones dying.
When Hitler started rounding up dissidents and Jews, the average population was happy with it! New opportunities for them! The deli down the street closes, they get to open up their own shop.
So why are you worrying about what's going on? You'll only cause problems for yourself!
Anon 12:40:35,
Germany was building munitions because of JEWISH COMMUNIST PRESSURE FROM THE SOVIET JEWNION.
Those who are willing to sacrafice freedom for protection deserve neither.
While all you HPers are worrying about the housing bubble, the public is unaware!
They aren't worried. Sure, some of them will foreclose, have to rent for a while, declare bankruptcy, but that is just an everyday occurrence, an everyday crisis in their life!
They will just blame the mortgage companies, the realtors, go buy a Corona, kick back and watch their T.V., in their new rental!
So why are you sorrying so much?
Where are all the cigar sucking little ACLU human at? I hate when I really need one ACLU guy for some one's smoking right and no one show up. ACLU guys are probably sipping magarita and sucking on cuban cigar right now.
You don't need no stinking rights. Cigarettes are bad for you anyway.
Pot will be legal while tobacco will be outlawed.
Wow, I leave for a day and the anons get even more stupid. Keep em' in line Richard.
I THINK MANY OF US ARENT PROTESTING
BECAUSE WE THINK AMERICANS NEED TO
SUFFER LIKE THEY'VE NEVER SUFFERED
BEFORE. BRING THE PAIN, ITS THE ONLY
WAY THE STUPID WILL LEARN. YOU JUST
CAN'T ARGUE WITH PEOPLE THIS DUMB
(REPUBLICANS).
AND OF COURSE, I AM STOCKPILING
AMMUNITION, FOOD, WATER AND BUILDING
MY OWN MOGOMBO FORTRESS OF SOLLITUDE.
-MAHA
-MAHA
"Blogging is intellectually fascinating, but really does it do anything of substance?"
Looks like the government disagrees with you:
"We now have a capability of someone to radicalize themselves over the Internet," Chertoff said on the sidelines of a meeting of International Association of the Chiefs of Police.
The bottom line is if you think for one minute that the average person cares for freedom, will put their butt on the line for what they believe in, you will be sorely mistaken.
History shows us that the average person follows the status quo and goes along with whoever is in charge, no matter what the results.
Dang Brew where the F#$K u been -
IW (flying monkey warrior)and myself having been batt'n these flys all day long.
Need the big guns - unleash hell on these tools my friend -
The ignorance level today is def con 5!!
Keef had our back early on and restricted ANONs - then led us right to the slaughter and this is where he left us. Hamburger Freak'n Hill!!!
I can bet some hottie sent a pic to him pleading to have ANONs post and he lifted the ban. Loser!!
All the republicans and democrats go to hell. And let's marry that -MAHA bitch to Bin Ladin eh.
The ironic thing is all you people on here who say die on their two feet, etc., have done nothing while Bush has passed the Patriot act and suspended habeas corpus, etc.
What have you done? Nothing.
When he starts rounding up dissidents you will do ... Nothing.
You can find Bush at the white house ... take it up with him.
"The ironic thing is all you people on here who say die on their two feet,"
Yo Einstein - nothing ironic here - move along now. "what actually happens" are the key words below - NOTHING HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
Holy crap - where do you begin with these ANONs!!!
Irony is a literary or rhetorical device in which there is a gap or incongruity between what a speaker or a writer says, and what is understood. More generally, irony is understood as an aesthetic valuation, which is variously applied to texts, speech, events and even fashion. All the different senses of irony, however, revolve around the notion of incongruity, or a gap, between our understanding or expectation and what actually happens.
where was the ACLU when leftist, olbermann watching, pot smoking hippie punk ass liberals where trying to steal my wife's land. that's is a real tragedy.
some war commission act that denies constitutional rights to alien (that means foreign, non-citizens of this country) unlawful enemy combatants does not bother me one damn bit.
"All the different senses of irony, however, revolve around the notion of incongruity, or a gap, between our understanding or expectation and what actually happens."
I guess I've come to expect very little from the average American, therefore it's not ironic you're such a tard.
trying to steal my wife's land
Another reason to vote libertarian!
REDUX
ONLY an American Citizen can breach allegiance.
"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."
Subsection 4(b) (26) of section 950v. of HR 6166 "
In the next election, I will vote Librarian. How much you bet that Laura runs?
Anon 1:15:35,
You are wrong. Many of us out in the real world will not simply stand by and do nothing.
And up untill now, we have not been simply standing by either. You may notice that some of us here try to rehabilitate the comatose, brain dead lemmings, back into a state of mind where they are capable of thinking for themselves. It's a tough task, and many are just to far gone. But, if and when the S does HTF, how would we feel if we had'nt at least tried.
Occasionally, The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants.
Excuses, excuses... you're a pansy and you know it.
The fact is, most revolutions aren't fought because of ideals but because of economics. Take the U.S. revolution. It was because a bunch of rich folks made more money without paying taxes.
Or Mao, it was because so many people were poor.
Ideals never factor into revolutions.
One sentence on this thread explains it all:
I think some people actively want a tyrant.
Yes, they do. That's why you can't reach the wingers.
Not with the text of the law, which explicitly does not protect citizens.
Not with a law professor's explanation.
Not with any fact or argument or much-needed education you can offer.
A growing number of people in this country want a tyranny. A gang they can feel part of. A strong man who makes them feel safe. A dictator with all the answers, so they no longer need to question anything.
John Dean wrote about this, in Conservatives Without Conscience, talking about the growing numbers of Authoritarians, who are as anti-American as bin Laden, and hate everything this country has ever stood for.
You can't reason with them. Because they're not reasoning with you. They are parrots who simply repeat the propaganda they've been taught. They want a dictator, and any fact that doesn't fit with that agenda means nothing to them.
No, the growing majority of people in this country are afraid of all the changes going on, Tattoos, Gay Marriage, Muslims and all that, so they want a Christian dictator.
"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."
This is the scariest part.
This question is, of course old, and hotly debated by the writers of the Constitution. They had direct experience of the tyranny of George III whose regime frequently flung around accusations of "treason" (which is what the above is deciding).
For this very reason, "treason" is the only crime which is specifically defined in the Constitution, with strict limits and regulations. This was very wise.
This is yet another contra-Constitutional tyrannous act.
There is no need to have an 'interpretation' or 'update the Constitution for modern times' or any such thing.
The exact circumstance was explicitly considered.
This law would purport to make "treason" a crime which would be defined, judged, and punished exclusively by the ruler (I will no longer say "President") and his henchmen.
This is prima facie tyranny.
"We now have a capability of someone to radicalize themselves over the Internet," Chertoff
All this means is that the people will now all believe blogging is dangerous and allow the elimination of net-neutrality and great sites like this blog and http://cryptogon.com/ will be slammed shut.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
"This is prima facie tyranny."
No it is just fine. Lock them up. Throw away the keys. Let the rest of us all buy SUVs.
Without a doubt, the greatest threat to this country is GW Bush and his lackeys. Coming in a close 2nd is Tali-bornagain jesus freaks. The Taliban admires the Jesus freaks I'm sure. Please if you live in America and like GWBush, kill yourselves now for the future of our children. Those in that category are no different than Mohammed Atta and the others who flew planes into the WTC.
They'll probably be locking up Muzzies anyway. You probably don't have to worry unless your name sounds like Bin Laden or Zaqwari.
The left hides behind such self-ascribed motives as banning torture, defending the rights of the accused, when in fact, what they want is to hamstring this country in its war against radical islamists or
islamofascists.
Only those with wicked thoughts are quick to assume
Why the fcuk would liberals (forget "the left") want with that?
They'd be first up against the wall in Osama's Islamic Caliphate.
Does
(a) torturing
(b) torturing innocent but accused people
help in fighting radical islamists?
No. It makes the problem worse.
It is Osama bin Laden's dream because it makes recruiting suicide bombers easy.
This is an ideological war between Enlightenment-infused Western civilization and medieval Islamic fundamentalism, and the war in Muslim minds.
Osama bin Laden: "They aren't nice enlightened people. They are torturing infidel Christian Crusaders who will rape your daughters and invade your countries!"
Bush: "We are Christian Crusaders, and our armies will invade your countries, torture you, and some will even rape your daughters!"
Well, there you go.
From their side, Osama looks like he's been right. There are 1.3 billion muslims.
I want Englightenment civilization---like those who wrote the US constitution (aka "liberals")---to win.
Why isn't anyone speaking out? It's eerily similar to when the Nazis came to power:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
after all I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
after all I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
after all I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
After all we're not terrorists.
http://tinyurl.com/y3qocu
http://tinyurl.com/w37i
http://tinyurl.com/yqr7u
Who really cares? I'm kindof bored. Spending time in a Bush prison with a lot of other intellectuals could be interesting.
Of course, i'm not an intellectual so it will never happen. :(
Sold at the peak -
thanks for the well thought out post.
sadly I think you are right.
They all sound the same - they all say the same thing - they snicker at the liberals - and lie themselves into the grave with chains around thier necks.
It boggles the mind.
"This law would purport to make "treason" a crime which would be defined, judged, and punished exclusively by the ruler (I will no longer say "President") and his henchmen. "
Yes - what the prez OR ANY PREZ IN THE FUTURE SAYS GOES.
Our children will hate us!
-MAHA bitch pick up fight with people again. If you want to play, meet me at Hover highschool parking lot on Sunday morning. I ride a blue Yamaha Z1.
This guy talks like he thinks schoolchildren will someday memorize his speeches.
You sir, were the lamest of sportscasters.
You sir, pontificatus maximus feces equinas.
You sir, will soon again be collecting unemployment.
You sir, are a raging drama queen.
You sir, are a Sore-Loserman and a poor liar.
Libertarians - Listen to Larry Elder and don't vote for leftists.
This message approved by me.
What a bunch of children wanna kill each other. Stupid democrats and republican.
Ah yes, the third way. So above it all. So superior. So ineffectual. And so responsible for everything that happens next.
Because you could have counted for something, and you did not.
When they come for you, by accident, because of a number you called, or a name you share, or a contribution you made, or a harsh word you exchanged with a bureaucrat at an airport, surely they will have to listen when you protest your independence.
Oh, wait. You no longer have any place to protest.
Keith
A bit naive aren't you.
You thought America was Home of the Brave and all that stuff?
No. America is where the Rich get richer and the Poor get poorer.
Always has been that way and always will be.
In a capitalistic society, its the Gordon Geckoes who rule, and the working man works for Gordon, whether he realizes it or not.
We just allow the working man the illusion of wealth. Gordon doesn't want to kill the sheep, just bleed them a little everyday, and let them think they are free.
Armagedon. Jesus is going to return.
I talked with a women yesterday that truely, I mean really sincerly, believes that Jesus is coming in the next year or so!
That is what Peoria truely believes and if that does not scare the crap out of you, nothing will.
A couple of interesting quotes found on cryptogon:
"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it... Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning... one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."
-Milton Mayer, "They Thought They Were Free"
"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
-Winston Churchill
The Republic is lost. Now we're just left with protecting ourselves and our loved ones.
The romantic idealism of "fighting for what we believe in" is gone. Ripped by our consumerism and our "reality-TV".
Folks, its going to get worse...MUCH worse.
Infidelsix,
"Sore-Loserman" is so 6 years ago, just like all of your opinions.
Allah spit on all of you lousy republicans, democrats and libertarians.
Allah especially piss on you stupid -MAHA monkey.
Bush ROCKS! He beat down the dems TWICE. Liberals can't win anything, because they're whinny LOSERS!
Dems think they've already won back the house/senate. lol. They'll lose again and again.
We are engaged in a war. Get used to it.
"The Republic is lost. "
In fact, it has been since the Wkiskey Rebellion. The Civil War nailed the lid shut. So, what's new?
"You are terrorized. Osama owns you. CHRIST MAN! GROW A SPINE!"
Dude, I have to deal with foreigners every day at work, foreigners who were brought in to keep wages down.
Meantime, foreigners wake me up in the morning, because the neighbors hire foreigners (illegals) to do their yardwork.
Meantime I go to the video store, or any store, and the kids there are losers who didn't go to college.
Let me tell you, this terror thing is nothing compared to the rest of the stuff going down. This country is in the crapper and has been now for the better part of 10 years.
Wake up and smell the coffee ... your America is over.
Keith,
Out of respect for your contributions to the housing crash debate, I'll try one last time and then I'll save my breath. Olbermann's rant is just more of his typical hyperventilating BS.
First, the express "purpose" of the CMA is "to try alien unlawful enemy combatants." (Section 3, Subchapter 47a, Sec.948b(a).) (Incidentally, IIRC from my JAG days, aside from the word "alien" the others are just terms of art that distinguish non-uniformed fighters from regular, uniformed enemy soldiers who are deemed "lawful enemy combatants" even when they commit war crimes. This is just the odd, arcane, unfortunate and archaic Geneva Convention terminology for distinguishing non-uniformed enemy fighers from regular uniformed soldiers.)
Second, the only "Persons subject to military Comissions" are "alien unlawful enemy combatant[s]." (Id., Sec. 948c) So there is no personal jurisidiction over any US citizen. It's a big deal.
Third, the subject matter jurisdiction of the Commissions' is strictly limited to "aliens": "A military commission under this chapter shall have jurisdiction to try any offense made punishable by this chapter (war crimes) or the law of war when committed by an alien unlawful enemy combatant...." (Id., Section 948d(a).)
Unlike state courts, which are courts of general jurisdiction, all federal courts (including military commissions) are courts of limited subject matter jurisdiction. "Subject matter jurisdiction" is an really, really big deal for federal judges. If you can't plead and prove a specific articulable grant of subject matter jurisdiction in federal court then the case can't proceed. Trust me it's a really, hugely, immensely big deal in federal court. If one of these military commission ever tried to proceed against a US citizen the US District Court would grant a habeas writ so fast it would make your head spin.
Fourth, the restrictions on general statutory habeas procedures expressly apply only to "an alien detained by the US." (Section 7(a).) The habeas statutes as they apply to citizens are left untouched.
Fifth, statutory habeas provisions like this one and the rest of the US statutes establishing habeas procedures, cannot restrict our Constitutional right to the Great Writ. So this statute, even if it purported to restrict habeas lawsuits by citizens -- and it doesn't -- would be immediately invalidated by the federal courts.
Bottom line, you and Blowlbermann can rant all you want about fascism and the death of America. You are entitled to your own opinion. You're just not entitled to your own facts. And the fact is that this statute clearly doesn't apply to citizens and certainly doesn't restrict their habeas lawsuits. Don't take my word for it. Just watch and see what develops. And then think back on KO's bizarre, breathless hysterical rant and your own post today.
And that's the last thing I'll say on this subject. In reply to the responses I anticipate from the lunatics who comments here, I'll quote another great blowhard: "I'll let you have the last word."
Given the daily outrages of Chumsfeld and how absurdly far they've gone until now, how far will they go when they have NOTHING to lose on the day after the election? They appear to have already let go of their mascot and are likely going to have him put in rehab so Dr. Evil can take over:
Forgot to post the link to drunk Bush:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irOFAjsnSg0
History will record that it was the Republicans that brough the US to its downfall. The democraps will also share some blame for letting GWBush, that faggot coward queer little bitch, for letting him destroy the US in the name of his insecurity and homosexuality.
Another great post Garth.
The haters are chronic hyperventilators. Like when they work themselves into a lather over supposed censorship when there is NONE TO BE FOUND except, of course, the censorship Harry Reid, Madeline Albright, and Bubba himself try to apply to ABC. Then there's the blacklisting of the conservative voices in the MSM. Then there's the typical Columbia-type liberal shoutdown. Of course that kind of censorship doesn't count. You see, the biggest threat to civil liberities comes from the left - beyond question.
A great example of leftist censorship of OPINION - Bridget Bardot wasfined 30,000 francs by a French court for comments she made in her book, "Pluto's Square." In the book, Bardot complains about the large number of Muslim immigrants in France and especially the ritual slaughter of sheep during a Muslim religious festival.
Tabasco,
The fact is y'all hated Bush just as much the day he took office 5 1/2 yrs ago. Nothing's changed. You were haters then and you're still haters now.
I wish there were some BENEFIT to being a U.S. citizen. Right now, all you get is the right to vote (for one of two losers, neither whom you like) and to serve on a jury.
Resident aliens get all the other benefits.
Is American in for a good drubbing?
I don't know. It's been worse. The early 20th century was much worse. Much much worse, so relax.
Are we living with the threat of total nuclear annihilation like we were during the cold war? No.
What a bunch of pussies. At most, terrorists will set off a 20kt nuke in some U.S. city.
The U.S. won't have a military advantage forever. We need to exercise that advantage while we have it.
Just imagine a country 100 times more powerful than us that wants to impose Islam or death.
You get the picture.
I'm long in Koran investments.
It's nice to see how crazy the radical right really are. They claim that Michael Moore is part of the loony left, but they seem to have missed something.
I remember reading his book "Stupid White Men" (which he wrote and published after the 2000 elections but before 911), in which he clearly stated that voting for Republicans was only slight better than voting for Democrats, because while the Republicans would tell you they were about to screw you over the Democrats would be whispering sweet nothings in your ear, just before they screwed you over.
I guess the same old vitriol keeps you blinded. So please, go get a clew you loony right wing-nuts.
I wonder why the population in the Muslim world has shot up in the last 30 years? Lets see, what happened about 30 years ago...
Oh that's right the last great oil shock. And where has the "West" been sending it's money for the last 30 years, to supplement it's dwindling oil supplies. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran,... etc. Maybe Carter had it right when he suggest that the US was addicted to cheap Middle East oil.
How's that for a bit of geopolitical analysis? So are ya all voting for big oil this time?
And the next time someone asks me, "well what did Clinton do while he was in power", I think I am going to explode with rage.
The simple fact is Clinton had to live with Republican control of the Senate for most of his term. Even if Americans were silly enough to vote someone like Dubya into power, why couldn't they have had enough sense to put the opposition into power in the Senate?
See thinkin' ain't that difficult people.
Tabasco,
The fact is y'all hated Bush just as much the day he took office 5 1/2 yrs ago. Nothing's changed. You were haters then and you're still haters now.
Lets press the rewind button....
and press stop when we hit 6,7 or 8 years. OK
The fact is y'all hated Clinton just a much the day he took office (7,6 or 5)1/2 yrs ago. Nothing's changed. You were haters then and you're still haters now.
Oh gee, I thing that's a deja vu moment.
Dems are anti-jewish, yet most jews vote for the democratic party. Why?
Government Targets American Bloggers As Enemy Propagandists
Military, Homeland Security, Bush White House strategy sharpen knives against anyone critical of the "war on terror"
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | October 17 2006
Recent scientific polls that show around 84% don't believe the government's explanation behind 9/11 and others confirming the fact that support for the war in Iraq is at an all time low have led the Bush administration to sharpen their knives against the new breed of perceived "enemy propagandists," bloggers, journalists and online activists who dissent against the "war on terror."
As Raw Story reports, CENTCOM announced earlier this year that a team of employees would be "[engaging] bloggers who are posting inaccurate or untrue information, as well as bloggers who are posting incomplete information."
So when you're wasting your time arguing the finer points of the collapse of Building 7 or the quagmire in Iraq with someone who seems unable to grasp basic principles, your foe could well be sat behind a plush U.S. government desk in a uniform.
CENTCOM is infiltrating blogs and message boards to ensure people, "have the opportunity to read positive stories,"presumably about how Iraq is a wonderful liberated democracy and the war on terror really is about protecting Americans.
The CENTCOM website features a useful section, "What Extremists Are Saying," which provides a full catalogue and showcases the diatribes of US government agents Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi, Ayman al-Zawahiri and their sympathizers - rhetoric that CENTCOM hopes surfers will seek out in order for them to grasp a true understanding for the necessity of bombing the shit out of another broken backed defenseless country in the name of "freedom."
The jaw-dropping hypocrisy of a regime and its military attack
Garth please stop with the drivel.
Read this - and understand this...this is a large part what is being debated here and across the country. THIS SECTION OF THE MCA.
NOT your notion that our government is going yo (continue) to do the right thing.
ONLY an American Citizen can breach allegiance.
"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."
Subsection 4(b) (26) of section 950v. of HR 6166 "
I'll sum it up for you in one word: Draft
The reason college kids are not protesting the street is because we don't have the draft. Until student's lives are on the line, there won't be anything but smug indifference bordering on complacency.
I cannot believe there is anyone stupid enough to vote for repukes, either they are retared people or they are queers and faggots.
I sure hope Keith Olbermann made it out of the country before the stormtroopers crashed the gates at MSNBC and killed everyone there. What a brave, brave, man, to critize the President in a country where doing so can get you jailed or worse.
Jackass. Stick to housing.
richard,
your post is correct, but just like a liberal (unlike garths complete and concise post) you give only half the truth.
Section 7(a) of the MCA strips habeas and federal court jurisdiction with respect to aliens. It does not strip jurisdiction with respect to citizens.
which garth clearly pointed out.
Ok Mike.../
riddle me this batman...
Can an alien breach an "allegiance" to the US?
Back to the basics Mike...
"I pledge allegiance to the US of America and to the republic for which it stands..."
Respond back if you need for me to finish this for you.
Other wise you would be best to stop spraying this blog with your ignorance.
If I recall - an alien needs to take this PLEDGE to become a US CITIZEN.
Hey but thanks for getting a handle - now I can pretty much tell where all the BS has been coming from for the past dozen or so threads.
"Dems are anti-jewish, yet most jews vote for the democratic party. Why?"
Republicans are anti-poor people, anti-middle class people, yet many vote for them - why?
Answer: Because people are stupid.
"I pledge allegiance to the US of America and to the republic for which it stands..."
the flag of
my bad...
Yes, people are stupid and so are all of you arguing over everything politics, real estate, trucks ... this is funny shiet.
Keith Olberman: a conspiratorial, half-truth serving, prissy little prick. Wait a minute, that describes Richard! Has anyone ever seen them together?
Hmmm...
richard,
explain to me please what you do not understand about this sentence.
"Section 7(a) of the MCA strips habeas and federal court jurisdiction with respect to aliens. It does not strip jurisdiction with respect to citizens."
your emotion and sophmoric patronizations are getting the best of your intellect.
let me break it down for you:
Step 1: i (being a u.s. citizen i.e. a non alien)knowingly and intentionally aid an enemy of the United States.
Step 2: i am arrested and detained in accordance with this act.
Step 3: i file a writ of habeas corpus.
Step 4: a federal court estabilishes its jurisdiction becasue i am a u.s. citizend and therefore specifically excluded from the war commission's jurisdicition.
Step 5: i am tried, convicted, and punished for my treaonist acts in a court of law.
Sold at the Peak,
any fact that doesn't fit with that agenda means nothing to them.
--------
Sounds like religion to me.
Your comment rings so true once again I have a new perspective from an HPer.
I was pulled over by the police the other day for traffic infraction in Monrovia KKKalifornia. I was treated like a criminal and corralled by a militant PIG with who instantly stripped my rights. Government is too big and powerful. Speak out and be crushed. The days of controlling communist or terrorist sympathizers are coming back. Pack a bag and get ready to be moved to your new home, the internment camp! The only people who like Bush are his parents, government employees, and the terrorists.
Get ready to loose your guns.
Anon, when Clinton was in power and bombing civilian targets in Serbia, I was in Bosnia. We didn't respect blowjob Billy because we would have been court-martialed for doing what he did, yet he was our Commander-in-Chief. Why should the standards that apply to us be higher than the standards applied to our CIC? That's why we didn't respect him. He was a morally weak and worthless leader from a military point of view.
Anyway I really don't wish to dredge that up, only point out that no one HATED him, he just didn't get respect. No one called him Hitler and called for war crimes tribunals and execution for bombing Serbs.
So here's the deal w/ Olbergasm. I've never seen this kind of vitriol and hate - and he's an MSM commentator! He seems to leave out that this act was passed with 65 votes in the Senate. That means that even if EVERY Republican voted for it, about 1/3 of Dems also voted for it.
He's a tool.
those who deny or forget history are doomed (doomed!! I tell you) to repeat it.
poor sorry bastards.
the problem is you are takig us down with you.
time for a new passport and move all the assets to some country where a man can be free. say north korea or cuba. yeah, thats the ticket.
if we dont fight them here, we will have to fight them there, or something like that.
here is the bottom line. the terrorist won. and now occupy the white house.
regular guy said: The only people who like Bush are his parents, government employees, and the terrorists.
)_________
well, actually, I am not sure about the parents.
I've never seen this kind of vitriol and hate - and he's an MSM commentator!
WTF? Rush Limbaugh?
Olbermann actually talks about facts.
do i like bush?
no
do i like bush better than gore and kerry?
yes
GWB is a person who has disfunctional relationship with his father.!!!!!
TThere is enough Police Power in the US.
Many Policemen and Women, and airport Security Officers, treat us like we are already Terror Suspects, with even a simple traffic stop.
Enough.
The new "FED" Police Power, whether challenged at the Supreme Court level or not,
Whether applied to Alien or citizen, was NOT, is NOT necessary.
To the ridiculous person/poster who states that we want to HAMSTRING the War effort, we as a country are united against the "Un Declared" War on an invisible Terror enemy. DUH.
No one wants a nuke to go off in the US.
BUT, these new FED Police laws are not necessary to further any war effort, here or abroad.
The are a slippery slope, IMHO.
There are many NSA, Electronic surveillance, Back Door Deals, and Secret Black CIA operations going on, which I reckon are working because we have not been attacked again since 911.
We do not know what is really going on in the world of classified Operations on a Federal Level.
This new Presidential Move is a hat trick as a means to an end, which is already in the works. No one in the Civilian (non-military) world will know the real story. Again just MHO.
Signed,
A Former Assimilated Republican.
I pledge allegance to the fags of the United States of America and to the Republicans for which they stand while they are serviced by pages, one country, invisible, in ...
(What was the rest?)
oh, yeah, one country, under smog, with freedom for the rich and unjustice for everybody else.
::Terrorists::
::They should be made U.S. citizens and given court appointed lawyers and given all the right U.S. citizens have.::
Jeez, please get up to speed on the declaration of independence. "All men are created equal and have certain rights...."
This isn't Night and fog (google it) in Hitler's Germany.
Bush won twice you liberal limp wristed losers. Get a clue. The majority of Americans wanted Bush. Liberals are losers.
" Bush won twice you liberal limp wristed losers. Get a clue. The majority of Americans wanted Bush. Liberals are losers."
If this isn't proof Democracy is a flawed system, where the idiot majority elects an idiot president, I don't know what is.
"Jeez, please get up to speed on the declaration of independence. "All men are created equal and have certain rights...."
See, why did we ever give women rights? They're not equal. As aren't other races, those aren't men, they're savages.
Enemy combatants aren't men, they're terrorists.
here is the rest beebs,
"That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Prudence indeed, will dictate, that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security."
Dark days indeed - and America sleeps
why did we ever give women rights,
ironic, in the early days of the colonial usa,
only landowners were allowed to vote.
all hp renters would have been disenfranchised.
lol
Get ready for your patriot bar code tattoo and worker party card.
Ok Mike - maybe I missed the citation you are referencing in the MCA -
Where did you get this?
""Section 7(a) of the MCA strips habeas and federal court jurisdiction with respect to aliens. It does not strip jurisdiction with respect to citizens."
link please...
then I will answer your ?
Let us agree (or not) that from congressmen to constitutional scholars and lawyers - there appears to be a certain amount of ambiguity in the way the MCA is written to wit our discussion.
Let us agree (or not) that given the lies that this administration and congress have been caught in does not bode well for a fair interpretation of the MCA.
My question to you is what part of...
"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."
this DOES NOT implicate a US Citizen - why Mike do you think it even appears in the MCA??
Beebs, You need to keep in mind, that the people who wrote the constitution only considered white men to be men. And they wrote it with the intent on it applying to only white men. They counted slaves as like .33 or .5 of a person. How were they to know that white men would squander their birthright to this nation, that they had worked so hard, and bled so much for? Acually, a few knew it would happen. They also knew why.
See what a few of them said about the parasitic hook-nosed tribe here.
http://americandefenseleague.com/fathers.htm
richard,
your citation is under subchapter VII of Secton 3 which identifes the crimes triable by military commissions. does this add ambiguity with respect to u. s. citizens?
yes it does.
however, i believe the sections of the law that deal with (1) persons subject to military commissions, (2) jurisdcition of military commissions and (3) habeas corpus matters trumps a mere definition of a crime.
the sections i pointed out above are very specific to the "alien" requirement and in the legal world specificity will trump ambiguity - at least thats how it is in the tax world.
http://tinyurl.com/ybzak4
regards
It is a well known fact that an emergency whether real or contrived can suspend the US Constitution. Plans are in place and these plans are currently being employed.
Recall back to the Ollie North deposition. The question regarding the suspension of the US Constitution was brought up and the committee chairman supressed additional discussion [.]
At this point Mike - we will agree to disagree.
The reason for all the disagreement rests upon the fact that Americans have no real understanding of the constitution .That Piece of paper is meant to bind the US,and it's subjects to laws.This subject,inorder to be understood, requires of the student(American) a whole new discipline.I can't describe the Magnitude of the process in which one relearns,unwinds,untangles,then awakens to his,and her responsibility,power,accountability,bravery,and desire.The realness,and actuallity of the experience is what causes the postulate,or awakening.IE;I had the opportunity to fight a ticket in court myself.I lost the battle. What I gained by real life experience outweighed that loss a millionfold.The courts are a place to start.Did any of you know that you may be offered a contract before you plead?That contract that was offered are Constitutional rights.All of them verbatum.Did you know that the court wants dearly that you "do "sign?The court will also offer you a plea bargain to skip a real trial.How many of you Know what what kind of court you are in when attending a hearing? Article 1-2-3?
Majistrate(petty summons)?The government would love dearly to grant you all your rights,and does so only with your permission.Start at a court ,and see what you learn.
Dems are anti-jewish, yet most jews vote for the democratic party. Why?
Yeah, its a bit like how the Amerithrax attacks were targeted at Democrats and the letters that came with them were anti-American and anti-semitic.
A left-winger... I don't think so. A right-wing nut job... yeah looks like it.
Richard said...
"ONLY an American Citizen can breach allegiance.
As Johnny Carson used to say, "Wrong again, buzzard breath."
It is a "well-established rule that while domiciled in country, [an] alien owes to it local and temporary allegiance which continues throughout ... his residence in return for protection he receives, and that for breach of his temporary allegiance he may be punished for treason...." Carlisle v. US (1872) 8 Ct Cl 153.
Likewise, the "allegiance due from aliens resident in [the] United States is local and terminates when they leave our country, though every sojourner who enjoys our protection is bound to good faith towards our government, and although [the] person is alien, he may be guilty of treason by cooperating either with rebels or foreign countries." Charge to Grand Jury-Treason (1861, DC Mass) 1 Spr 602, 30 Fed. Cases 1039, No 18273.
very very telling Keith that you have no repsonse to Garth's post on Friday, October 20, 2006 5:51:05 AM
this proves that you are either dumb and cant understand what the law is, or that you are a true left wing nut that likes to to lie and spin this into something it is not. Facts are facts. RESPOND to his post please.
Responding to Garth's analysis:
948c does not say 'Only'. It says 'Any' so there is nothing there that limits the act to specifically 'aliens'. Here's the text: "Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter.". Why didn't they say ONLY if that's what this meant?
948d(a) says the jurisdiction is retroactive to 9/11 for aliens. Agreed.
948d(c) is the problem. It says that jurisdiction of the act includes anyone deemed to be an "unlawful enemy combatant" by the military tribunal (no reference to alien)
Interesting how Garth's detailed wordy analysis skips analysis of 948d(c). Why'd you skip that one, Garth?
And why did you insert the word 'Only' in YOUR analysis, although the act NEVER SAYS THAT?
Sec 948d(c)
"Determination of Unlawful Enemy Combatant Status Dispositive- A finding, whether before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense that a person is an unlawful enemy combatant is dispositive for purposes of jurisdiction for trial by military commission under this chapter."
Wrong yet again, Buzzard Breath.
A fundamental rule of Congressional statutory construction is "expressio unius exclusio alterius est." I.e, to provide for only one is to implicitly exclude all others.
Let's say Congress creates another commission with the following grant of jurisdictin: "This commission has jurisdiction over trade disputes on apples." Do you really think the new commission has jurisdiction over oranges? C'mon, give us a harder one.
The MCA provides jurisdiction over aliens only. Period. Every federal court must have a specific grant of jurisdiction because federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction, another fundamental rule of federal law. Look it up.
Our old friend "expressio unius" also covers the "finality" provisions. The finality secttion expressly provides for finality on determinations of "unlawful enemy combatant." Notice what's not final. Right. Determinations of "alien" status. Implicitly, by exclusion, the decisions of the commission as to who's an "alien" are not final.
Remember, anyone can file a habeas writ to review the MCA. Then the federal judges in the DC circuit get to decide if habeas lawsuit proceeds. I think we've covered this. The judges get to decide if they have jurisdiction and they will use all the same rules of statutory construction, like expressio unius, that Anglo-American courts have used for centuries. Trust me they will always protect their majestic life-tenured power.
As Stevie Wonder said, "if you believe in things you don't understand you suffer." Let the ACLU handle it. They'll take good care of you, don't worry.
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