So I was thinking the other day as I was walking down a street here in London, taking the time to look at the workmanship and materials (masonry, not wood) of all the flats and buildings in my neighborhood. Buildings that have lasted well over 100 years and still look great, still look like they'll be there another 100 years, easily.
Probably the best thing that ever happened to London was that it burned to the ground one day (hello, wood framing), and they rebuilt it with brick.
So, bottom line, will people walk through new neighborhoods in Phoenix 100 years from now with the same feeling - "what great houses, boy, they'll last forever" and "what great design elements, workmanship and materials they used back then"?
Will those 2x4-wood-framed-stucco-covered-mexican-built Pulte homes be livable in 2106?
I would suggest not. As a matter of fact, I'd be surprised if some of those homes are still standing in 2056, they were so poorly and quickly built. I think future generations will curse this generation of housing bubble homes for their energy waste, their poor quality, their awful design and their use of land.
Hell, I curse them today.
And I would never ever buy or build a wood-framed house.
September 17, 2006
Problem #1263 with the housing bubble - a lot of crappy, disposable, wood-framed, poorly constructed houses got built
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25 comments:
My sister-in-law's friend bought a house in 2005 and just a little over 6 months, they noticed some plumbing problems, roof & exterior stucco cracks. the stucco part is generally acceptable, as long as the cracks are somewhat hairline. However, plumbing and roof problems are considered major and if the house is still new, then that says a lot about the quality.
Concrete or masonry houses are common in some Asian countries. I don't know why our local code has not considered using this type of approach, especially in hurricane prone areas.
You should see some of the S--t their building in Vegas! Unskilled labor, cheapest materials possible!
Throw them up as fast as you can, get them on the market!
I just came from vegas and was thus inspired to write this post
vegas - london
vegas - london
hmmm... wonder which homes will last longer
who you can sue?
The Mexican Government? LOL
I work construction and I always tell the younger guys on the job site NEVER buy a new house during a boom. Anyone who can swing a hammer and roll out of bed are building houses. If a buyer comes out and looks at the house and complain about the quality, the seller will tell you to move on. They know somesone else will buy it. Yes I agree most of the houses build lately will not last 100 years if not much shorter, lots of new produces and shortcuts being uses.
There's wood frame and then there is old wood frame. I have a house that is wood frame, built about 1860. It's not what you find today. Just finishing rennovations and my carpenter keeps commenting on the quality of the work and even more interesting, the wood. There are three solid wood porch pillars, original to the house, and they have no cracks. The new construction around shows cracks in less than a year. Realtors get annoyed when I tell them that I would not buy anything built after about 1950.
I have a solid 1850 log house, stone foundation, gorgeous chestnut logs & heart pine floors.
I can't believe what people pay for these crappy new charmless houses on top of one another, when they could get an old house way cheaper. My boyfriend thinks I'm crazy, but I wouldn't want anything built after 1900. Only problem is tin roof needs painting, & not easy to find a roof painter.
Old 16th c. houses in The Netherlandsd still look great, though maybe a bit crooked. Their new construction is some ugly Bauhaus looking crap, though. Old Irish houses have weathered centuries of rain and held up better than some 3 year old ones in US.
I speculate that the mortgages on some of these mcshitboxes will outlast the house...
I grew up in a wood framed house that was built in 1965. Modulo needing kitchen and bath upgrades and the occasional paint job over the years, it still looked great in 2003 when my mom sold it.
However, the $h!+boxes that get built in real-estate booms are of shoddy construction, just as you describe. Look at some of the tacky junk that got built in the late 1980s, at the height of the last real estate boom.
I have a feeling that in a couple of years when this bubble has burst and I'm out looking for a house to buy I'm going to be telling the real estate agent "don't show me anything built after 2001."
The million dollar condos just built on Orange Grove in Pasadena are already falling apart. I watched them put up "faux" stone work made of Styrofoam!
Article from Tampa Trib:
'Shoddy Work Frustrates Homeowners'
http://www.tbo.com/southshore/MGBYZUKY4SE.html
Anon 1:05:35 said...
I would not buy anything built after about 1950.
Anon 4:14:34 said
"don't show me anything built after 2001."
My cut off date is about 1980, when they started to get away from all plywood walls(5 ply thank you) to just plywood corners and the rest chipboard. I watch with amusement at a development down in Maryland where the entire $750,000+ spec sh#tbox's roof (and walls) is
chipboard. The first leak, no matter how far down the road, and kiss the roof goodbuy(pun untended) along with the wet insulation and collapsing drywall ceilings. Exterior plywood
that gets wet, GETS WET, chipboard turns back into a pile of wood shavings in the presence of moisture. Hey, maybe they used that new, more expensive, marine grade chipboard with the moisture resistant epoxy? Yea! Right!
what a ridiculous comparison. First timber frame works in US because the air is dry. it dopesn't in Britian because its damp there, all the time!
Its true that 100+ yr old london houses are better the the sh*t build in Phoenix. but 100+ yr old wood frames in US Northeast are better than that too, and they exist!. In fact there are a lot of 100+ yr old wood framed houses across the US northeast and they are beautiful and very efficient.
what about the brick sh*t that's being built in London's suburbs? plumbing that sucks, computer designed so absolutely no space for storage, but looks great in showhouse. They're not even brick, they're breezeblock with a brick facing. crappy roofs, crappy size, shitty materials. These things are 400 sqf, a 3 bed is 850sq ft and a big 4 bed is about 1500sqft.
No better than than a modern timber frame in US.They're all sh*t
My sister's house built in 1999 had cracks in the walls by 2005. It was built by Grand Homes. The house was falling apart from day 1 and it was hell trying to get them to honor the warranty
Recently got to tour a cellar (just like a basement) in Escondido, Ca. Built 100 yrs ago. Large beams, timbers.....Not One knot could be seen!! No warp, No twist! Tight!
Notin' like old timbers!
Random Musings...
- About walls shifting, cracking etc. This is about the foundation and the fill. No structure the size of a house with reasonable materials will withstand a shifting foundation. I know someone who bought a new house in 1977 and by mid 1980's one side had shifted about 15", cracking the whole side. He ended up sueing and settling with the builder for improper organic fill. By the way, the first thing to tumble down was the brick chimney. The house itself looked awful, but the wood frame held together.
- "Brick" houses are not all brick. Brick is a lousy structural material. If you just glue piles of bricks together with motor it will fall down in the slightest earthquack, as they discover in other country's. Most "brick" houses have either a wood, or steel frame that provides structural support, and the brick is the outside facing wall. Yes, it does weather well, and without leaks will protect its frame.
- The standard for solid construction in hurricane prone area's such as south Florida is Concrete Block Construction (CBS). This is a bunch of pre-cast concrete blocks stacked up, but importantly with steel re-bar inserted inside, and then concrete poured into the holes. This is *very* solid, and basic will be standing (minus the roof ;-( after a category 5 hurricane. Better construction methods will mechanically attach the roof to the re-enforced walls.
You have got to see this real estate show called Million Dollar Listing on the Bravo channel!!
Oh my God! What a bunch of plastic self absorbed human excriment!!!
Over priced S--T ! With EGO's to match
I couldn't believe it!!!!!
Anyone for Amway?
sometimes regulated by law standards {who pays the politicans the most, to forse the buyings of their products} produces inferior products at prices beypnd the prices of quality producrs.
ditto to the school textbook scams pardon the edit
ditto to the school textbook scams pardon the edit
If car companies would add $5 dollars worth of nickel (the metal Ni) to the steel of each car built... the car would not rust.
For the buyer, instead of paying $25000 for a car, they would pay $25005 instead to have one that is made of stainless steel.
So why don't car companies do this? Because it's called "Planned Obsolesence".
Essentially, by putting defects into the workmanship of products, you ensure that the buyer needs to keep coming back to you for repairs and eventually replacements.
The last car which didn't have planned obsolesence was the Ford Model - T (There are still some driving around after 80+ years after all). But, at that time, Ford nearly went bankrupt because nobody needed to buy a new model T after they bought their first one.
However - the idea of "Planned Obsolesence" is built into all products today. Your t-shirts, your tv, even your home. By making things break down, rot, etc. and by their very design, they are forcing the buyer to keep working to earn money to pay for fixes, upgrades and replacements.
Well Keith, when you do buy or build you'll know what not to buy! For twelve years I've lamented the cracker boxes built in Phoenix. Our first house in Villa de Paz near Luke AFB was built in 1982 and looks the same today as it did then (we drive by it when in town) where homes built nearby after that look like they are 50 years old.
Come on down to Austin and you'll find lots of homes that are quality built. Lots of homes with brick and stone and you can still find upper end new construction with some of the finest materials for $127-150 a sq ft while those crackerboxes in Phoenix are selling still for $150-300 a sq ft!
Just as scary - flipped homes. Flippers use the poorest materials and many have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Do your homework and avoid flipped homes.
So true - the comment about hiring anyone who can swing a hammer.
You can't build a brick house in San Diego. Wood or steel. Take your pick. I'd choose steel.
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