July 25, 2006

"I just want to get out of the house and not be too screwed"

Here's a pretty typical story on Foreclosure Road from Denver. Note the fake appraisal, the declining property value, the "creative financing" gone awry, and the barge-like bank.

At the end of the day, get ready for an epic wave of foreclosures these next few years.

An epic wave.

Homeowner Eric Elkins is struggling to avoid the real estate world's dreaded F-word. Foreclosure may be his only way out.

Elkins says he can no longer afford his payments. He owes $285,000 on his Highlands Ranch house. But it's worth less than $250,000. 'I just want to get out of the house and not be too screwed,' he said."

He and his then-wife bought it for $252,000 in 2002. Last year, Elkins put the house on the market for $299,000. At that price, the home attracted only three showings. Increasingly unable to afford his payment, he contacted his lender, U.S. Bank. At first, the bank told him he couldn't refinance again because he owed more on the house than it was worth, he said."

He inquired about selling, but to sell a house for less than it's worth requires lender approval. Eventually, Elkins' lender came up with a better idea. 'He put me into two home-equity lines of credit,' Elkins said. 'It was all very creative.'"

These new loans replaced his mortgages. One was interest-only, meaning Elkins wasn't required to pay the principal during the term of the loan, keeping payments low. Both loans had adjustable interest rates. As for the value of the house versus the size of the loans needed to refinance it, well..no equity, no problem. 'He got an appraisal for $285,000,' said Elkins of his lender. 'I don't know how he did it. It was exactly the amount I needed.'"

Unfortunately, Elkins' financial situation is still disintegrating and his payments keep rising. He put his home up for sale again in May. In June, he got an offer for less than $250,000. His broker submitted it to U.S. Bank for approval.

The bank had to decide what to do about the deficiency. One option would be to grant Elkins an unsecured loan for the balance. Another would be for the bank to take the loss. The loss on a short sale is typically smaller than the loss on a foreclosure.

Unfortunately, the bank did not respond and Elkins' bidder moved on. 'This property will end up foreclosed on because the bank cannot respond quickly enough,' said Elkins' real estate broker, Gretchen Faber. 'U.S. Bank is completely uninterested in cooperating with me or with the buyer's agents. It isn't just U.S. Bank,' she said. 'All banks do this.'"

107 comments:

bostongrrl said...

Boston Globe Article:

Foreclosure filings in Mass. jump 66% Trend in higher rate of notices expected to extend through '07

http://tinyurl.com/h6kph

Could it be the first wave of ARM's coming due?

Anonymous said...

I live in the Atlanta area and drive downtown everyday where I work.

There is a sign on I-85 South as you're coming into Atlanta. It shows the number of homes listed for sale in the Atlanta area each day. That sign is today 7/25 at 92,145. Its up over 10,000 from 3 months ago.

Problem: There are no more digits available on the sign! What happens when the number goes over 99,999?

Anonymous said...

"The bank had to decide what to do about the deficiency. One option would be to grant Elkins an unsecured loan for the balance. Another would be for the bank to take the loss. The loss on a short sale is typically smaller than the loss on a foreclosure."

Any loss the bank may take would still be a huge tax problem for Mr. Elkins as the IRS would view as income the forgiveness of a loan.

Alan P. said...

Waa! I'm losing a house I never could afford in the first place to foreclosure, waa! Where's my appreciation? Waa! Real estate only goes up and now who is going to bail me out? Waa!

Natural Eyebrows said...

I agree Mr. Elkins may have a problem with a tax obligation for phantom income if there is a short sale. Maybe he'll get better advice this time.

One facet of this whole debt bomb nightmare is the distortion of language. The article refers to Mr. Elkins "lender." The "lender" is a mortgage broker, or at most a mortgage banker. In either case, somebody downstream in the loan process will wind up holding Mr. Elkins' woefully undersecured loan, while the "lender" will pocket his commission or markup and move on to the next deal. The appraiser gets paid for his role in the flim-flam and waits for the "lender" to feed him another assignment.

Calling a mortgage broker a "lender" is pure doublethink. We need to stop debasing the language.

Anonymous said...

BRAHAHHAHAHHAHHAA!!!!

This dude is a LOSER. This is how you buy a house. I owe $100,000 via a 5.5% FIXED mtg. on a house valued at $365,000. That gives me $265,000 in home equity that will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER be used. Taxable value is $220,000 and can only go up at 3% a year max. I pay no one interest except on this mtg. Doing otherwise makes you a retard because you are giving others your $ for nothing. Car payment? How retarded. That is for LOSERS too. Some people like the tard in this article deserve to get reamed out.

Anonymous said...

I tried to warn people down the street from buying new k. hovnanian "built like crap" houses. I watched the homes being built. Insufficient insulation, 3/8 inch plywood used as flooring, 20 foot pieces of siding secured in three places, no roofing fabric below shingles, foundations out of square, I could go on and on. Talked to one buyer down at the site and explained all these problems. The Buyer could not care less. Was ABSOLUTLY SURE THIS HOUSE WOULD BE WORTH $1,000,000.00 IN A FEW YEARS. So he bought it for over $650,000.00. Now the house is falling apart and people trying to sell thier houses in that neighborhood can't even get what they paid for them. I tried to warn them. TTTTTTOOOOOOOOO BBBAAAAADDDDDDD.

Anonymous said...

Inventory up, sales down for existing

http://www.realtor.org/PublicAffairsWeb.nsf/Pages/06JuneEHS?OpenDocument

Anonymous said...

"Doing otherwise makes you a retard because you are giving others your $ for nothing. Car payment? How retarded. That is for LOSERS too."

You know, as much as I dislike inflammatory responses, I can't help but agree with you. A lot of people have forgotten what the meaning of the word, 'loan', is. It means borrowed money with rent. I don't understand why that's such a mystery to the average consumer.

As far as loans go, I use credit cards as charge cards. In other words, I don't like to carry huge stacks of bills and a CC helps in buying things w/o having to worry about a lost or stolen wallet. Also, I get air a/o hotel pts so that I can use them during vacations but at the end of every month, I pay the balance in full because as I know that it's not my money but a line of credit for purchase convenience.

Likewise, a lot of these new homeowners don't realize that they're paying the interest on their loans and don't build enough equity until the latter half of their mortgage payments and now, with all these exotic loans, they may never get to whittle down the principal. Now brilliant is that?

Anonymous said...

>>> Car payment? How retarded. That is for LOSERS too. Some people like the tard in this article deserve to get reamed out.

I would not be so harsh. I am thankfully in a position where I do not have car payments either, and pay cash for cars.

But, starting out, it used to be that you would put a 10-20% downpayment on a quality car you could afford with a 3 yr loan. This could make sense if you are a young person buying a reliable car to get to work, and one which the payments are a reasonable amount of your pay. Overtime, hopefully you save enough money to buy the next car with a larger downpayment, or eventually cash.

Problem is, today, people will go out and get a maximum value car with a no money down 5 year (or longer loan) or worse yet, a lease. Then they are on a large debt treadmill. With the longer term loans, the cars value drops faster than the payoff rate, leaving you underwater if you want to sell it, trade it in, etc.

Sure, I remember kids who got out of high school and bought a Camaro IROC-Z with a 5 year GMAC loan, and after 3 years find themselves way underwater, and a car they either can't make, or can't stand the big fat payment anymore. You learn...

moman said...

"Doing otherwise makes you a retard because you are giving others your $ for nothing. Car payment? How retarded. That is for LOSERS too."

"Sure, I remember kids who got out of high school and bought a Camaro IROC-Z with a 5 year GMAC loan, and after 3 years find themselves way underwater, and a car they either can't make, or can't stand the big fat payment anymore. You learn..."

I agree wholeheartedly with both these comments. I did exactly what you described above and spend 4 1/2 years pulling my hair out to pay off a vehicle that I just 'had' to have. Just bought a nice used truck with cash I saved and will NEVER have a car payment again if I can help it.

Payments on anything are just a modern form of slavery. The average person's understanding of a loan is somewhere beneath criminal.

moman said...

Oh and I don't feel sorry for the guy with the overpriced house. He needs to pay his due, he picked out the ham sandwich, and now he should eat it.

Anonymous said...

"I am thankfully in a position where I do not have car payments either, and pay cash for cars."

Guys and gals, car payments are nothing, next to a home or condo.

Think about it, if you own a used car with 120K miles and plunk down let's say ~$1500/yr in maintenance, then a leased Hyundai/Saturn/Kia, at $200/month x 12 mths is $2400/yr in a maintenance and hassle free vehicle with oil changes. So for an additional 1 grand, you get a more reliable set of wheels. That's not bad, if you use the concept of value added rent, to your venture whereas a condo/home is a true money sink that can virtually wipe out all your earnings.

Anonymous said...

CREDIT CARDS

The only time to use them is as a charge card. Paid off montly.Right now I have 12K in credit cards at 6.99% fixed, because of my Phoenix shit box, I mean house. But now that I sold that piece of overpriced shit, I can pay off my cards in a year. This is still much better than owning that house in the steaming hot shithole called Phoenix.

BubbleShanker said...

Anon in Phoenix:

You did the right thing, no one should live in the city of Phoenix, it's a hot stinky craphole, filled with houses made from illegals. I have said in the past if Phoenix were a stock it would be my number one short.

BTW, Scottsdale is even more of a joke, because it's more expensive. I would expect home values in Phoenix/Scottsdale to land exactly where they were in 1997.

Anonymous said...

From the perspective of someone in the northeast, other than the SPAs, what else is Scottsdale AZ known for?

Alan P. said...

anon 3:19:06,

You rock! I just love stories about crappy construction. Get your crappy houses while they're over-priced, get 'em while they're hot, special built, just for the speculators. Let 'em rot, I say.

Anonymous said...

From Anon In Phoenix
Yes I know I did the right thing. Now the same house I sold is offered from the builder at 53K lower than I sold it for. And still going down. Phoenix is the only place I have ever been where everthing sucks. First the weather is unbearable hot, second there is fat people in t-shirts everywhere.Then the wages suck and even the water smells like shit.

Anonymous said...

A few year back the wife wanted a Brand new SUV. She buged and buged to get one; because she 'had' to have it.

We are debt free mortgage and all; because I own a business and won't 'rent' money.

She has a career and her own job (in medical) because she wants something to do; not because we need her income.

But being the typical American woman; she spends her entire paycheck on mall junk & high end fashions... Its like pulling teeth to get her to save anything.
At least I don't have to give her an allowance and she is happy having her own money.

THE POINT. I told her to save up 20% down & she could finance the balance only if we could negotiate a 0% loan on commericial fleet pricing through my commericial sales contact at a local dealer.

I figured that with her spending habbits she wouldn't be able to save the money & I would keep her from having a 'car payment'. We did not need the SUV (already have 4 other vechiles plus a motorcycle.)

But a few months later, her grandmother died and left her $5K in a will. So we wound up getting the SUV (its a red 2002 Ford Explorer). FORD CREDIT agreed to finance 80% of purchase price for 0% rate but terms were 36 months. Resulting in a $612 monthly payment. I insisted that this be autodeducted out of my wife's checking account... the same account that she has direct deposit of her paycheck going into.

BOTTOM LINE: SHE LEARNED HER LESSON. She told me after the last payment was sucked out of her checking account that SHE WOULD NEVER FINANCE ANOTHER CAR AGAIN. 3 years of payments put a HUGH DENT in her LIFESTYLE!!!!

TOO BAD she never learned to save. Still spends every dime she earns.

Anonymous said...

"Unfortunately, the bank did not respond and Elkins' bidder moved on. 'This property will end up foreclosed on because the bank cannot respond quickly enough,' said Elkins' real estate broker, Gretchen Faber. 'U.S. Bank is completely uninterested in cooperating with me or with the buyer's agents. It isn't just U.S. Bank,' she said. 'All banks do this.'"

typical...let's blame the bank for me getting hosed. It's everybody's fault but mine.

Concerned said...

to anonymous above... with all due respect.

Just wait untill petrol hits 5 bucks a gallon, will she still "have to have" an SUV ??

Sometimes I feel that the 'western' world needs a recession/depression to straighten us out a bit.

What's with this love affair with SUV's ?? If it were up to me I would ban them from the road, or charge a hefty annual tax to be able to keep them. If you haven't got cattle or at least 5 kids, you don't need an SUV.

Only farmers need that much horsepower.....and you don't see them riding around in 'flashy' utility vehicles either...just your basic variety to get the job done is all they need.

Soccer mom's with SUV's need a shrink.....imho.

Anonymous said...

You rock! I just love stories about crappy construction. Get your crappy houses while they're over-priced, get 'em while they're hot, special built, just for the speculators. Let 'em rot, I say.

Thier building INSTANT SLUMS!

ecobuilder said...

from
CNN Money: http://tinyurl.com/ku45q

"...The inventory of homes for sale on the market is now at 3.7 million, up a whopping 39 percent from a year ago. That resulted in a 6.8-month supply of homes for sale at the current sales pace, up from only a 4.4-month supply in June 2005.

Yeh, guys this is it!
Supply is 40% higher than last year!!!!! Expect price drop 40% (average), in Phoenix I would go for 60% !!!

Anonymous said...

Ya, I don't get it about the SUVs. Does driving an SUV make the average soccer Mom look like a tough person? I mean usually big trucks/vehicles are for the mountain man persona than the suburban dwellers. Someone please explain this psychology to me?

sickofitall said...

I agree w/ this soccer mom/chicks/SUV phenomenon. Here in So. Cal. I see these women all the time that can't even see out of these things creating havoc in every parking lot they go into. Then I see these chicks driving these off-road trucks all jacked up w/ the infamous "Silly boys, trucks are girls" stickers on the back glass. Can anyone explain this?

Indy500 said...

Yes,
It's called penis envy.
My wife hates the minivan. It makes her feel like she's only a mom. She wants one of those new huge Jeep SUV's that will make her feel like a MILF.

The Thinker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
The Thinker said...

I think it is clear from the above postings that the average HP reader is far more fiscally responsible than your average mall rat consumerist.

Anonymous said...

Re car payments.
It used to be that decent cars were affordable. 10-20% down on a REASONABLY priced car, then 3yrs of financing. Problem is, car prices have become ridiculous - probably due to the concept of leasing. Why buy a car you don't want when its not even a good deal anymore? Seems that when it comes to cars you can't win: Buy something you can afford but don't want and then watch it fall apart or lease a new reliable car every few years but always have a payment. You just can't win:(

Anonymous said...

I agree that most moms have no business driving a huge SUV that they can't see out of or PARK. I'm a mom and also hate the minivan so I chose a wagon. I don't care if people still associate them with the Brady Bunch - it works for me and thats all that matters.

Anonymous said...

BEST CAR ADVICE
1) BUY THEM WHEN THEY ARE 3 YRS OLD
2) PAY CASH
3) DRIVE THEM TILL THEY FALL APART
4) WATCH OTHER IDIOTS LEASE AND REMEMBER THAT YOU CAN BUY THERE CAR AT A 50% DISCOUNT IN 3 YEARS.


SLEEP GOOD AT NIGHT

Anonymous said...

Last October I sold my three flat in Chicago when I realized that it was time to get out. I asked an outrageous price for it figuring this would give me some room to bargain. I was very suprised when a buyer, who was mortage officer from a sub prime lending outfit, paid my asking price. After gutting the building and installing new windows and walls, I've noticed the property is standing vacant with no apparent new work being done. I wonder if this guy is being hit from two ends, paying for property at the top of the peak and losing income from the decline of the loan industry.

Anonymous said...

"4) WATCH OTHER IDIOTS LEASE AND REMEMBER THAT YOU CAN BUY THERE CAR AT A 50% DISCOUNT IN 3 YEARS."

Well, not Toyota Corolla's anymore. Apparently, used Toyota's are being sold at pretty high prices via their certification program. The last time I'd checked, a two year old Corolla was only $1K less than the new sticker price.

At the same time, Dodge Neon's easily lose some 30-40% of its value within a short time frame.

Anonymous said...

" She wants one of those new huge Jeep SUV's that will make her feel like a MILF."
I got my wife the Cherokee. It's a piece of shit but boy do I get the best MILF blow job every other night.

Anonymous said...

Just wait untill petrol hits 5 bucks a gallon, will she still "have to have" an SUV ??

Simple Answer: YES

She will cut back on mall spending before cutting back on her driving habbits.

However, we are upper-middle class.

The middle to lower 'middle' class with SUV payments are going to dump their SUV's at $5 gas.

Heck, I sure many are already starting to dump now at $3 gas.

Anonymous said...

"So for an additional 1 grand, you get a more reliable set of wheels. That's not bad, if you use the concept of value added rent, to your venture"

This is a huge exaggeration. Who spends $1500 in maintenance a year on a vehicle?

With the exception of "my mistake", I paid $2000 for a car, put $1000 into it in year two, and drove it for 5 years without raising the hood again. Sold for $1000.

Second vehicle, paid $2000. Put approx $500 into it. Have driven it three years without a hitch. Still running like new.

The only people spending lots on car repairs are those abusing their vehicles.

RC said...

I need a SUV, I have 4 kids but do not need to buy any time soon. I ask the car dealer the cost of a ‘04 suburban on the lot. He told me it had 64k miles on it and was priced for 35K. At point I walk out. The next day I checked CarMax for the same y/m, they have tons priced at 17k to 25k with less than 20k miles. I must had the I don’t shi$ about car prices look on my face. (wtf)

Anonymous said...

" She wants one of those new huge Jeep SUV's that will make her feel like a MILF."

Good thing for you. I abhor women I see driving around in SUVs. They are generally stupid and easy to take advantage of, and then send home to the idiot husband who is paying for it. Meanwhile, I just bagged a milf and there is not a chance in hell of any kind of interest from me.

Anonymous said...

"I need a SUV, I have 4 kids but do not need to buy any time soon."

No, you need a minivan or station wagon.

No one needs a SUV.

RC said...

Ok you'r right, I want a SUV and can afford $5 gas to drive it.

I'll have the balck land boat!
Thank you very much!

Anonymous said...

"Ok you'r right, I want a SUV and can afford $5 gas to drive it. "

That's okay, but it is still not a need. It is a want.

Too many people have confused the distinction. Especially my friends who have a 3-month baby and NEED a SUV. Then once they bought it can't afford the gas, but at least they got a good deal on it. Of course they didn't realize that Ford was discounting the old ones to come out with a new model, which immediately reduced their resale by another 30%.

Dumb ass SUV drivers

RC said...

Ok one last time. I am buying a SUV (LAND BOAT) for my family.
I don't give a rats ass what you or you friends think.

Anonymous said...

I will need a good SUV in 5 years. Please make sure to buy a 4x4 one so when you have to pay someone to take it off your hands I will be able to use it.

Osman said...

Yes, I also agree that there's a need for personal responsibility. The overwhelming sense of entitlement that some people feel often ends in painful learning experiences.

But speaking from the other side of the fence, I can understand the realtor's frustration with the bank. We're in a similar situation with a client and the bank is very unresponsive. Why they take weeks to respond, costing themselves large sums of money, is beyond me. Given the volume of foreclosures in Colorado, you'd think (a reasonable) short sale would be preferrable to foreclosure.

If you're dealing with foreclosure in Colorado this site is pretty useful. If you're trying to find bargains through foreclosures, I put together this post for buyers shopping foreclosures in Longmont. I should have elaborated on #4 - the woeful communication from banks is why patience is required.

Anonymous said...

JUST A REMINDER
PHOENIX SUCKS
ROASTING HOT TOILET FULL OF SHIT
STUPID LITTLE PEOPLE
HOUSES CRASHING
LOUSY PAYING JOBS
115 DEGREES
SPECULATORS EXCUSE ME A TWO YEAR OLD COULD HAVE TOLD YOU THIS PLACE IS A SHIT-HOLE WITH 115 DEGREE SMOKE BLOWING FROM IT's ASS

Anonymous said...

>But being the typical American woman; she spends her entire paycheck on mall junk & high end fashions... Its like pulling teeth to get her to save anything.

Yikes! Where to start? You just think she spends all of her paycheck (lol) I'm sure she must have a mad-money stash you dont know about ;-)I see far more men behind the wheel of those huge hummers than women with SUVs.

brokersleaveyoubroke said...

'U.S. Bank is completely uninterested in cooperating with me or with the buyer's agents. It isn't just U.S. Bank,' she said. 'All banks do this.'"

Huh? Hello, you signed a contract to make payments on money the bank lent you. You stopped making payments and now you expect the bank to jump through hoops to assist you. It would be nice of them to help you but the fact that you EXPECT help says a lot about you.

P.S. When you did the REFI with the HELOC that's a "recourse" loan which means that they can go after ALL of youe assets when they forclose. You were dumber then dirt to do that REFI.

Anonymous said...

did he just take a secured asset and turn it into an unsecured one with the HELOCs? Now the bank can go after every single asset he owns or am I way off here?

Anonymous said...

doh, looks like the above caught this guy's stupidity just before me.

Anonymous said...

"Problem: There are no more digits available on the sign! What happens when the number goes over 99,999?"

"100K, 101K, 102K, etc"

Anonymous said...

To ANON 11:36....
My sister in law 'refuses' to work. Yet she just boasted to my wife she purchased a 2000 leather massage recliner with her 'mad money'. I am sure its his money. Knowing my brother in law, I guarantee she had to bust out the knee pads often.

you also said "I see far more men behind the wheel of those huge hummers than women with SUVs."

Like my sis in law..I see far more woman giving hummers to those husbands financing those huge SUVs.

Anonymous said...

"Ok you'r right, I want a SUV and can afford $5 gas to drive it. "

How about the ethical angle? Conserve gas, reduce our dependence on foreign oil, stop degrading the planet? This country has become so polarized, that I expect some idiot to brand me a commie flower child for even bringing this up. Actually, I'm a businessman, and believe in free enterprise, but this situation with oil and global warming is a serious problem. Why can't people see the link between their gas-guzzlers and the fiasco in the middle east? How do you feel driving that 17 mpg monster when you see photos of US soldiers with one arm and one leg? Me, I'm getting a Prius and I'll be proud to drive it.

LauraVella said...

Thinker said:"I think it is clear from the above postings that the average HP reader is far more fiscally responsible than your average mall rat consumerist."

Agree 100% thinker. Speaking only for myself, I dont understand why women and even some men get sucked up into the advertising/properganda machine and think they are so cool buying on credit every gizmo/car/gadget instead of practicing self control and focusing on saving money rather than spend every penny.

In the coming years, savers will be rewarded, while spends will be punished. I'm sure some will never lean and think they are entitled to whatever they want.

LauraVella said...

Taking about cars....

I recently replaced my 14-year old car with something with front wheel drive for Reno.

I ended up getting a used 1999 Toyota Celica-private party car with low miles, in pristine condition for $8,500. Now, I have a better, newer, more relible car, that gets great gas milage for a very good price.

I'm sorry, but to me, $25,000 should be for a downpayment on a house, not for a car which will depreciate in time. Different strokes for different folks.

Brendan said...

I kinda get the impression from people's comments that Phoenix sucks.

uknowwhoiyam said...

anonymous wrote:
There is a sign on I-85 South as you're coming into Atlanta. It shows the number of homes listed for sale in the Atlanta area each day. That sign is today 7/25 at 92,145. Its up over 10,000 from 3 months ago.

Is that sign the creation of realtors or housing bubble believers?

uknowwhoiyam said...

anonymous wrote:
Any loss the bank may take would still be a huge tax problem for Mr. Elkins as the IRS would view as income the forgiveness of a loan.

Pure scare tactics.

Anonymous said...

>>> The only people spending lots on car repairs are those abusing their vehicles.

Or drive German cars ;-( Everytime I take my Mercedes in for a "Service Interval" I can't get away for less than $1500-$1800.

Anonymous said...

Random comments:

- Buying a car at three years is a good breakpoint. It's about 50% off, and still in good shape for 3-4 more years or more. You also get a little factory warranty left to shake the bugs out many times.

- The used Corrolla's are likely high due to gas prices.

Anonymous said...

>>>No one needs a SUV.

Yeah, right. How about towing a 26 ft sailboat with your Prius? Granted I can use my 1 Ton pickup, but my wife's SUV lets us haul the kiddies too.

Its a free market and a choice people. Yes, I will admit that the SUV thing got overdone by people who do not know how to even drive one. But those of us with boats, horses, and offroad places have had them before they got fashionable.

Anonymous said...

>>> How about the ethical angle? Conserve gas, reduce our dependence on foreign oil, ... and other whining...

You are still using gas are you? Just because you drive a Prius instead of an SUV does it mean one less solder in Iraq? Does it stop the fact that the modern world economy is currently run on fossil fuels?

Look, if gas gets really tight the price rises. This encourages conservation, and searches for alternatives. I listen to liberals whine that we should not drive SUV's, but then whine about high gas prices! WTF! Don't they understand the best way to encourage less consumption is to let the price get high?

(Oh, yeah, they are complaining since they could not raise it themselves with taxes. Now with the market price being high, they can't raise taxes on it easily)

Anonymous said...

I listen to liberals whine that we should not drive SUV's, but then whine about high gas prices! WTF! Don't they understand the best way to encourage less consumption is to let the price get high?

Don't RepubliCons ever consider the connection between totally wasteful consumption of oil----supporting the finances of people who want to kill us too---and the high price of gasoline? And then they go on blaming conserving liberals?????

As they say in the Valley:

Like, DUH!

Concerned said...

Its a free market and a choice people. Yes, I will admit that the SUV thing got overdone by people who do not know how to even drive one. But those of us with boats, horses, and offroad places have had them before they got fashionable.

Those people are a small percentage.

Most SUV's today are bought as penis or breast extensions.

Anonymous said...

OH PHOENIX SUCKS
BUNCH OF SHIT BOXES PILED ALONG I-10
BUNCH OF UGLY FAT STUPID POOR PEOPLE
SMOKING HOT AND MISERABLE
WATCH YOUR HOUSE GO DOWN 50% IN 6 MTHS
CALIFORNIANS MADE MONEY FROM YOU
OH NOW YOU HAVE HIGHER PROPERTY TAX
GANGS GALORE
HURRY UP EVERONE GET YOUR STUCCO PIECE OF SHIT TODAY
HA HA H A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Anonymous said...

I agree that PHX absolutely sucks. Too many illegals, houses built with chicken wire and styrofoam. There are no craftsman building these homes just illegals who are good with a hammer. Every 3 miles you have the same corporate shoping centers. Culture here = the Foriegn food aisle at the local supermarket. But yet they want to charge a half mil for a house 40 miles away from downtown. What a joke. I'm glad we are all fnally starting to get the joke.

Anonymous said...

this whining a-hole about how the bank won't "work with him" (translaed: forgive $60,000 in debt so he can walk away from the contract he signed)....this is a story we're going to be inundated with over the next couple of years, I'm already tired of it.

Safe haven where? said...

Lauravella: "In the coming years, savers will be rewarded, while spends will be punished. I'm sure some will never lean and think they are entitled to whatever they want."

That is unless hyperinflation or even just high inflation takes hold. Protecting against that is the saver's dilemma.

Concerned said...

That is unless hyperinflation or even just high inflation takes hold. Protecting against that is the saver's dilemma.

Gold and silver is the answer.....God's money.

Anonymous said...

"Its a free market and a choice people. Yes, I will admit that the SUV thing got overdone by people who do not know how to even drive one. But those of us with boats, horses, and offroad places have had them before they got fashionable."

The tragedy of the commons is that people like you who can use a SUV are branded as wasteful because people like the other clown want one to show off in. I used to own a SUV before they were popular. I only sold it because I was tired of seeing every other person in one but it was very handy.

Anonymous said...

I mean that I sold it because i was tired of talking about it. Random people would be like "oh you are so cool and lucky to have a SUV" and those kind of comments made me sick. Hence the reason I drive a conversion van. Since when have they been cool?

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

>>> Don't RepubliCons ever consider the connection between totally wasteful consumption of oil----supporting the finances of people who want to kill us too---and the high price of gasoline? And then they go on blaming conserving liberals?????

Do you really think that by driving a Prius, taking the bus, or passing some law will eliminate all use of middle east oil in the US? You would merely make a small dent. Long term, we must have a different energy infrastructure (nuclear power) if we want to move away from so much oil.

Lets say we stop buying oil from the mid-east today. What will happen? Well the price of mid-east oil will plummit since they lose their biggest market, which will make it very attractive. What will really happen if we don't buy it, someone else will, and we will buy the other oil they were buying. It's a global market.

If you don't want to buy mid-east oil, why not support producing more here? Hey, I like the idea that we buy oil from the middle east keeping our ANWR oil in the ground for later...

I would argue that one of the best defenses against people who want to kill you is a strong military.

Anonymous said...

Lets say we stop buying oil from the mid-east today. What will happen? Well the price of mid-east oil will plummit since they lose their biggest market, which will make it very attractive.

China will step in and buy it all. This tact would only work if China goes green.

Anonymous said...

I just love the childish notion that relations between nations can be based on emotions. If people in other countries would just "like" us more, or like the President, then most problems would disappear. BS

Foreign relations are based on balances of power, economic, or military. Those are the considerations that drive history. You liberals need to pull your heads out of the nether regions and figure that out - one of you might actually assume the reins of power some day. We don't need another fool like Jimmy Carter.

Anonymous said...

"With the exception of "my mistake", I paid $2000 for a car, put $1000 into it in year two, and drove it for 5 years without raising the hood again. Sold for $1000."

Well...here are the things that start to go with cars over 100K miles...

tires
starters
alternaters
water pump
timing belt
exhaust
brake pads
radiator
and the list goes on

The new behind a getting let's say a new Kia, a ~$12K vehicle at $200/mnth lease rate (including fees), is that for that three year period, all you have to do is change the oil every three months. I'd say that that's a value added rent and is within a normal person's budget.

LauraVella said...

Gold and silver is the answer.....God's money


Agree. (my prediction)Gold is going to the moon by the end of the year just when housing inventories hits the roof. As it is, more and more houses are going on the market everyday, its starting to look alittle bit scary.

Here in Reno,last year in the Old Southwest area, there was nothing for sale, but now there is at least one house on every street for sale.

Anonymous said...

:Gold is going to the moon by the end of the year just when housing inventories hits the roof.

I don't think so. What'll happen is that Gold will form a support in the 620 to 666 zone with occasional breakouts but then followed by retracements. Gold's actively being fought by many central bankers against the basket of currencies.

Assets, like housing or equities, however, are toast.

not buying the bubble said...

"Yikes! Where to start? You just think she spends all of her paycheck (lol) I'm sure she must have a mad-money stash you dont know about ;-)I see far more men behind the wheel of those huge hummers than women with SUVs."

Ummm ... men's haircut. $20
Women's cut + die. $100.

Men's jeans $50
Women's jeans $100+

Men's shoes, 2-4 pair, $50-$300
Women's shoes, 12-50 pairs, $50-$300

Women's dresses, clothes, skirts, etc ... thousands

Women's healthcare. Astronomical.

Basically women are FAR more expensive to maintain than a guy. But even so a lot of women have nice cars on credit.

Anonymous said...

Do you really think that by driving a Prius, taking the bus, or passing some law will eliminate all use of middle east oil in the US? You would merely make a small dent.

Yes, it would help a great deal. US personal gasoline use is a non-trivial fraction of the total world oil consumption, and US fleet efficiency is well below everybody else's, and for no really good reason. Existing technology can fix this in an instant: it's called a Corolla.

Long term, we must have a different energy infrastructure (nuclear power) if we want to move away from so much oil.

I agree completely (add in wind too---it is now quite competitive with fossil fuels). But this long term electrification of transportation to preclude oil use will require even more advanced plug-in hybrids.

And changing to that would require a titanic investment.

And this, when the first step is so damn easy: have people stop driving huge trucks when they should drive normal cars.

Consider all the truckers and industries which are utterly dependent on petroleum: this is real serious economy and lots of jobs, and they cut oil use to the bone. They are getting whacked because of the high price of oil, exacerbated by idiotic vanity waste.


True fleetwide fuel efficiency is an urgent matter of top national security, military and economic. Butch up, and park thy SUV.

Anonymous said...

While I agree with most posters on most subjects because I'm very fiscally conservative and have no debt, I'm offended by the attacks on SUV owners. I have a gas pig Yukon Denali that is perfect for pulling my boat and my toy hauler. No piece of crap Prius or other small rice burner can get it done so get over it people. If I can afford the gas, quit worrying about it and quit villifying me.

Anonymous said...

Do you really think that by driving a Prius, taking the bus, or passing some law will eliminate all use of middle east oil in the US?

Well yes. First of all the US still produces about 50% of its oil needs domestically. Second only a fraction of the US's imports come from the Middle East - most come from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela. So the US does not have to reduce its oil consumption much to completely eliminate imports from the ME.

Anyway, reduced US consumption would result in global lower oil prices and less power for hostile oil states like Venezuela, Russia and Saudi Arabia. Their rulers would like you to believe that the last two are "friends" of the US, but they're not. At least Hugo Chavez is up front about it.

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