March 26, 2006

Cashed in your house and renting. Have job mobility. Now where should you wait it out?



It's called geo-arbitrage - where you cash out of your overpriced home in your overpriced town, leave behind your over-hectic, over-consumption lifestyle, leave for the beautiful countryside of America (or beyond) and simplify.

So, where to go?

Take a look at the book above - The Best Small Towns in America, and also Life 2.0.

With the internet and wireless phones, many of us (who are early retirees, consultants, or small business owners, or have skills desired everywhere like accounting etc) can live where we want, as long as we have broadband!

Europe's great, but so flipping expensive and only going to get worse with the dollar's collapse. Iowa, Nebraska, Idaho - sound lovely, but probably too boring.

Colorado? Too expensive.

Looking for some great ideas. Outside the USA is fine too (especially these days).

Have at it.

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hanging on Martha's Vineyard, MA. Just Got Back from Park City, Utah but prefer neighboring Heber. A few minutes from skiing without the price of Park City proper.

Anonymous said...

About 10 years ago a good friend cashed in after living in Denver and Kansas City and moved to a town of 94 people in SE Nebraska. She bought an amazing 1922 home for $15,000.

After 4 years she moved back to the city, minus the hair she had pulled out. The problem with this 'move to the small town' scenario is that you get small town minds to live around.

If you are anything but a church going far right conservative you will go absolutely crazy.

If you want to have an intellectually rewarding circle of friends, have in depth conversations , and want to discuss something more than sports and the prospects for the high school basketball team, forget it.

There's a reason people pay big prices to live in urban areas.

Left Las Vegas said...

I read this book after you posted about last time. The problem I have with the book is that the author targets the niche audience of rich white california snobs. I'd love to escape long commutes and rude people, but I don't think most of us possess the implied requisite of a million dollar home and a $250k double income.

To respond to the previous post, the book did take into account one's political and religion (or lack of) preferences when choosing a small town. For example, you can find progressive attitudes in small college towns like Colombia, MO or Lawrence, KS.

Anonymous said...

Previous poster is correct about the smaller to mid-sized college towns across the midwest and south. Austin is still relatively cheap and is a great spot for live music, and a great mixture of cultures. The old German, Polish and Czechs towns still exist across central Texas. San Antonio is nearby. The hill country is beautiful and if you're in the tech field, there are plenty of jobs around the area.

Joey said...

Hi, please send details on great places to cash out and move to, not reviews of the book - I can read those on Amazon. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I have actually thought of selling my vastly overpriced Orange County home, and renting for a few years. But, and that’s a big BUT, my wife will not allow it.

If I was single and I did dump my overpriced home, I’d never move to flyover country. That isn’t to say that I think I’m better than those people who live there, or that their way of life is less important than mine. Call me crazy but I like being in a rush, I like have a large selection or restaurants, even if I have to wait an hour. There are simply too many benefits versus negatives for me to leave Southern California.

I have no problem with those that cash in, and boycott the traffic & high prices by moving to MO, OK, or TX … it’s just not for me.

Anonymous said...

We cashed out of Phoenix and went to Tulsa, OK after some friends of our recommended it. They are in the process of doing the same - and have also convinced two more families to go as well.

My wife and I have lived all over - New York, Pennsylvania, Florida, Seattle, San Francisco, Britain etc. Tulsa was the last place we considered - until we actually checked it out. It has all the modern conveniences plus rather cosmopolitan and wealthy being an oil town. Yes, Tulsa has churches like Manhattan has skyscrapers but that suits us fine. Could not beat the cost and quality of living. Great private schools for the kids.

We built a brand new custom home for a fraction of what it would have cost in Phoenix, with far superior craftmanship.

No more long freeway driving, no fighting for parking spaces, no lines, no waits. People are actually nice to each other. Entrepreneurs actually work to earn your business. Reputation is very important there.

I was very concerned as my wife is deep down a Manhattan big-city girl. But she loves the relaxed pace and no longer has to compete with a million other people for the good things in life. Are we bored? No - we have more than enough money for lavish trips to Manhattan (just went last year). This summer, we are off to the Caribbean and this winter, we are off to Canada on a first-class ski holiday. And we are taking a nanny.

It is first-class living.

And maybe in a few years we might pick up some prime property in Northern California that someone else can no longer afford - because they refused to sell out when they had the chance.

texasian said...

You west coast people have no clue about fly-over country. Sure Tulsa is and Wichita Falls are still small towns. The Dallas area has 7 million people of all races meshed into 5 counties. I've been to LA and NYC. Dining in Dallas is better IMO. Sure we don't have alot of the $300/meal restuarants, but how many of you dine there anyway? With such a big Asian population, Dallas probably has among the best Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Viet dining in America. The Tex-Mex and steakhouses here are also the best. You guys must be watching too many re-runs of Westerns.

Anonymous said...

For those living on the coasts that have loads of "equity" in their home and are looking to trade large city for large city with (in this market) reasonable housing prices, I would highly recommend Chicago. I grew up near the city and, if I could have found a job in my career there, I would still be there. $200-300k will buy 2-3 bed townhouses with basements and 2 car garages in the collar counties with regular commuter rail service and 1-2 bedroom condos within the city that are reasonably close to the CTA rail lines. Chicago has everything that a big city can offer: outstanding museums, universities, great public transportation and cheap airline travel, and some of the best restaurants in the country. The traffic and the midwestern weather are some downsides, but I would recommend people who are looking to cash out and don't want to move to middle of nowhere, USA to give Chicago a look.

Anonymous said...

Sold my bay area home, moving to oceanside, getting a bigger and better house and have $100K left over. Yes, I'm quite aware of the San Diego ripening bubble but this is still quite positive for me. I know of people who are doing the same but moving to Sacromento and Phoenix.

Anonymous said...

Check out www.escapeartist.com for tips on locating to foreign countries.

AngelaintheIE said...

We just sold our home of 17 years in Riverside, CA and plan on renting until it makes sense to buy again. We considered Plainfield, Indiana (suburb of Indianapolis). Two of my brothers just moved there last year and love it. Something to consider though. Sure you can purchase a 2000sq foot home for $125,000 but the cost of living is the same or more and the pay is much, much less. For example, while we were there "looking" around, my husband had two interviews for work. He currently makes ~$60k a year in a blue collar job. One of his interviews was a perfect fit, almost a dream job but paid only $15.00 per hour with the same benefits as he has now. That is about half of what he is making now. When I put all the numbers together, it just didn't make sense to move. We are staying in California but renting in a much nicer, well established neighborhood with the best schools in the county for about the same as what our house payment was ($1,600/mo). We plan to buy there as soon as the market will allow. Good luck and remember the crunch the figures first.

Angela

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
We cashed out of Phoenix and went to Tulsa, OK

Wow! It is amazing the pathetic lows to which some people will stoop in the name of greed. You went from a filthy dump in the desert to a filthy dump in tornado alley, all for a few $K... sad.

Anonymous said...

Apparently the editor of this blog prefers to cash us in right now by posting a large ugly pop-up right in our faces. The point is he can then profit by having us 'click-thru' and purchases. But we really didn't have a choice in looking at this advertisement as it came right us with no ability.
This 'keith' dude lost his objectivity a long time ago, pats him constantly on the back for being right on a 50/50 shot and now wants us to dream about having tons of cash from selling some macmansion which I'm sure most readers here never chose to buy.
Midder Keith, suh, come up widda new ideas whys dont youse?

Anonymous said...

I don't see no stinkin pop-ups.

Anonymous said...

Pop ups? That's so last century.

Dude: Get Firefox + adblock + FiltersetG. You'll never see another ad ever.

In fact, when you see someone pull up a page with ads, it will remind you how you used to see all that crap and then you'll just smile.

Anonymous said...

Pop ups? That's so last century.

Dude: Get Firefox + adblock + FiltersetG. You'll never see another ad ever.

In fact, when you see someone pull up a page with ads, it will remind you how you used to see all that crap and then you'll just smile.

Anonymous said...

There are no pop ups on this site that I have ever seen.

Maybe you are incompetent and unable to use the net?

Time to go back to crayons.

Anonymous said...

i used to see pop-ups on this site, but not so much anymore.....though i find the fact that all the ads on the site seem a little much.....i have to scroll down falf a page just to see some content

Anonymous said...

South FL is great, except for Sep/Oct. You can rent here.

Anonymous said...

anonymous said...

"Wow! It is amazing the pathetic lows to which some people will stoop in the name of greed..."

I see that a troll has found its way onto this board.

First, you put down Tulsa and Phoenix ... but where did you say you live again? I am curious how your twisted (sad) logic came up with that one. You are probably trying to justify your own lack of initiative - but I'm sure you will blame someone else later. I'm also curious about your own "greedy" financial situation. We didn't just do it just for those "lousy" half-million dollars in profit. That is not a huge chunk of our net worth, but it might be to someone else.

Miss America 2006 attends our church and graduated our local Jenks high school, thank you. Go tell her what you think of Tulsa, you loser.

moman said...

Many people who have left big cities cannot handle it in the country. I grew up and lived for a while post-college in small Midwestern towns. I associated with some people who had moved from California in the last property craze and while they had double the house, little crime, and no pollution those people were not happy. They couldn't handle the fact that the most diversity in town was going to WalMart and seeing fat whites and black people. The local college plays weren't good enough culture.

Try living in Columbia, MO or Tulsa, OK. Mr. Tulsa - come back in 5 years and tell us how you're doing. If you haven't been blown away by a tornado yet I bet your tired of Tulsa. Been there - it looks like nothing more than a typical interstate town. Just right down the interstate is the Tanger Outlet Mall except the mall is gone; the foundation is all that is left after a tornado ripped the entire thing to shreads. I was in that storm and will not forget it.

Columbia, MO? CNN/Money ranked it the worst place in the country to do a market research survey because everyone thinks the same. If you're not a right-wing churchgoer you will hate Columbia. I have family up there so I know how that town works - there's a reason that housing hasn't appreciated a dime up there in years. There are NO jobs unless you want to work at a restaurant or WalMart. Crime is a little higher with the college and associated bums.

I took a gravy train to the east coast and do not regret it. Sure, I don't have the leeway to fire 300 rounds a night off my back porch like I once did but it's a lot more cosmopolitan. The costs of living are almost exactly the same as I had back in the midwest and I make about 20% more income. I'm not sure I will ever be able to move home and be happy. If it's hard for ME after growing up there I cannot imagine how hard it would be for someone who has never lived there to adjust.

Anonymous said...

Clinging to overpriced housing right now in a "coastal, cosmopolitan" area is a lot like refusing to sell your dot-com stock.

Sure, in five years, we'll probably be gone from Tulsa, although we will probably keep a family ranch there. It will have served its purpose.

Sure, Tulsa has tornadoes. But Florida has hurricanes and lovely California has earthquakes. Phoenix is just plain hot.

Longer term, we are probably headed to the Caribbean or the Mediterranean. However, we will probably buy some properties in Florida, California, Manhattan and other select areas. By then, we will be buying at the bottom.

Just a matter of riding it out.

panicearly said...

i cashed out, spent the last 12 months in S.e.asia. I have no kids etc. so its easy for me. Lots of potential here for interesting times. Lots of change going on about.Definitely challenging but thats what makes it fun for me. Anybody else out this way?

moman said...

I'm a renter in Florida and if shit hits the fan, I could walk away from here forever....

There is nothing about Tulsa, OKC, or really any other midwest town that is of any appeal to me at this point in my life. I think it's a great place to raise a family but I don't believe it's possible for most Californians to assimilate into the midwest atmosphere. I know a ton of east coast people who think the midwest is one big cornfield and those who have traveled there hate it. Good - it will keep prices and demand down if I ever want to go back.

I'd strongly advise against anyone moving from an area they love simply for lower costs. As the guy considering Indiana found out, it's just not worth forsaking happiness to get a couple extra bedrooms. Why live somewhere that you're miserable?

Anonymous said...

What’s the deal with making fun of Tulsa and the midwest? I spent 5 years in Tulsa and then moved to southern California, which is where I am now. All I can say is that I would move back to Oklahoma in a second if there were jobs in my field. Things can be a little slower there, but prices are much cheaper and the people are much friendlier. Believe it or not, there are educated people there, but instead of going out to a $300 dinner, they learned to cook, invited friends over and only spent $50 on it(only $50 because they bought the food at Wal-Mart). If it makes you feel more intellectual, diverse, cultured or whatever you want to call it, that you can afford to spend your money on over priced food and entertainment, so be it, but I don’t see the need to make fun of people that don’t share your views. Also, I don’t understand what the complaint is about church going, right wing people. It seems to me that since you are complaining about it, you don’t share those views, which would mean YOU created a more diverse population. On the other hand, if your meaning of diverse is that everyone has the exact same beliefs as you, I would surmise that the west coast might be what you want.

Anonymous said...

I've had enough! I'd rather see a rusty pickup truck loaded with Mexicans coming into town than another damned Escalade with Kolyfonia plates. Roaches are better company than these uber-yuppies eager to spend $600K on a stucco palace and the couple of acres of dirt that used to be part of a working farm.

Stay home dammit!

skytrekker said...
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skytrekker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
skytrekker said...

The dabate over so called 'cosmopolitan coasts'... west coast snd northeast will go on.
I live in Connecticut- considered one of those 'glamor states' Well its 'glamorous' mainly in swanky Fairfield county- the rest of the state is an interesting mix of ethnic groups- growing Latino and Asian all mixed in with Italian, Irish, Polish and African American-plus growing numbers from the middle east- pretty diverse- all mixed in with the old Yankee stock... The state away from Fairfield county is a mixture of gritty urban areas- that are rebuilding- to less gritty but still diverse inner suburbs, old and faded mill towns (Like the one I live in just east of Hartford) upscale suburbs and peaceful rural areas with charming small towns- much here for a state of 5200 sqaure miles. Beneath it all there is easy access to culture- history and liberal sophistication. But there can also be blue collar simplicity. Religion is not a big part in the lives of most of the states population be they rich, poor or middle class-yes very east coast secular. The state has liberal laws (amongst the most in the country) on issues of homosexual unions and rights. abortion, womens rights, hate crimes etc.
Housing here is primarily pricey in Fairfield county-nearer NYC- The rest of the state has a median SFH price of about 250K or less-'cheap' considering the states coastal location between NYC and Boston- that is probably why I see so many plates from California, Maryland New York and even the Katrina hit gulf coast.
Would I live in the midwest? Chicago and Minneapolis perhaps- Oklahoma or Indiana? Probbably not- median home prices may be 100K less in these two areas- I simply would probably be unhappy- but that is me.
It would be nasty to trash those so called 'less cosmo' flyover states- No snobbery here- I just feel the intrinsic quality of life in Connecticut is higher on just about every level- so its worth the 'little bit' of extra money.

Anonymous said...

My husband and I looked in to small town living and it isn't something we can do. We're a mixed couple, he is Indian and I'm Greek, while in Spokane, WA we got open stares.

So living in the middle of no-where might work for whity but not us.

Marvin Gardens said...

I transplanted from CA to CT. You don't have to choose a rural farming town. There are lots of nice places across the country with wide-ranging appeal.

After my experience I can say that you have to do this for more than money, otherwise you will probably be miserable.

As for diversity, I have found many ironies in my experiences here. I am caucasian and my wife is Japanese and we have a little daughter. Although CA is supposed to be very diverse, it usually really means ignoring people's differences. In CA, my wife was "Asian", but here she's Japanese, and people show a genuine interest in getting to know about her and her background. There's nothing wrong with being different. In CA (Bay Area), I found people seemed to think that "diverstiy" meant glossing over the differences. Just pretend you don't see anything. Block any thoughts of race out of your mind.

By far our experiences here in CT have been dramatically different (positive) in that we've felt sincerely and warmly welcomed everywhere. In CA we were just ignored or regarded in some neutral, pre-approved careful way.

The negative for use is on a practical level. It's a lot tougher for us to get the groceries we want, but that's part of the fun.

Marvin Gardens said...

...meant to say, "We transplanted..." It's definitely a big family commitment. If it works for you, it will probably make your family closer and stronger.

keith said...

panicearly - what country/city? I think I'll give up on finding a great american town... and see what's over this side of the globe

thinking italy right now, but what's your experience in se asia?

Anonymous said...

The title says "Cashed in your house and renting. Have job mobility. Now where you should you wait it out?"

Uh, how about right where you are? You're renting. You're going to be fine. Why do you need to go somewhere and buy property to "wait it out"?

People here are starting to sound like Y2k kooks. "Yep, got me 5 years of beans and rice in the cellar. Plenty of ammo too, you know, for when TSHTF. Yep."

It's ok folks. Really. Real estate may crash, it may not. No need to uproot your family. Just rent if you are convinced of a crash.

Anonymous said...

I have a different suggestion.

Buenos Aires. After the Argentine currency collapse it's quite inexpensive.

This assumes that you have independent means of support, because getting jobs would surely be very difficult.

If you're in the better parts, it's indistinguishable from Europe---and a nice part thereof too. Your daily life can be accomplished by walking six blocks. The food is amazing.

And the girls are hot. Very. And I'm from San Diego.

Marvin Gardens said...

"Why do you need to go somewhere and buy property to "wait it out"?"

Speaking just for myself, we're not waiting anything out. We're making the most of our money and achieving a much better cost-of-living/quality-of-life balance. Buy low. Sell high.

Ferromancer said...

To those who suggested cashing out in Chicago, I would reconsider. I love the city, and I'm having an awesome time here, but it's only marginally less expensive than the coasts if you plan on BUYING a home. That is, if you want to move to an area in the city with culture. Most of the suburbs are soulless, sprawling, WASPy, SUV-filled, soccer-mom wastelands, completely homogenized and devoid of culture. All the interesting and culturally diverse areas of Chicago are quite expensive to live in. The small 2-bedroom 2-storey house that I grew up in is now worth aroun 400 grand. The 2+ bedroom 2-flat that I'm renting a floor in (1250 per month) is for sale over 800 grand, and I'll be booted out at the end of my lease so they can gut re-hab it and flip it for 1.3 million like the other houses down the street.

You're better off moving to a liberal midwestern college town with charm. Madison, Wisconsin instantly comes to mind. Champaign-Urbana Ill. has a lot of culture as well, though it's not quite as nice as Madison, and the country-side is mostly flat and uninspiring.

Anonymous said...

I was recently offered the opportunity to relocate to Buffalo , NY. My employer offered to help with relocation costs. I have researched the area and I like what I see . Real Estate is very reasonable. Property taxes seem awful high. But I hear folks are friendly in Western New York and welcoming. The winters , OH BOY!! but I don't care. After I get there and use the housing loot from Phoenix , I will have a paid for 4 bedroom and still have cash left overe to buy a couple of lightly used or new Snowmobiles and have plenty of land. No more HOA and subdiv. living with people that don't say hello. Lake Ontario right on my doorstep if I go to Youngstown and plenty of history , culture and very descent prices.
Any WNY'ers here??

Anonymous said...

THE SKY IS FALLING! AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

Get over it folks. This country has been through alot worse. Ever heard of the Great Depression? People jumped out of buildings on Wall Street

Anonymous said...

Western NY? Taxes & snow, snow & taxes. Houses are cheap & you pay taxes. Did I mention the high taxes? Very picturesque in the Spring and Summer (all 4 months of them).

Anonymous said...

Europe is great? It's full of Africans and Muslims now. The Germans and French don't use deoderants.

Anonymous said...

I did the opposite. I just cashed out and traded up to a new better house and my mortgage payment is less than before!! I contemplated sitting it out but I am just another Joe Bloe with a wife and kids who is only interested in a 'home' for my fmaily to hand out for a while. I dont look at it as an investment so I really dont care if the market crashes tonight and my new house drops 50% value. I will be here for a while and the mortage is less than most rent today so its manageable, even if a job loss or market crash occurs. I honestly dont think the market will tank like most here predict (50% drop). If anything prices in my area are moving up! Hell when I went to scope out the model homes, people were out in full force but most were trading up like me. Cheers!

Anonymous said...

Angela,
I own a home in Riverside. I was thinking about selling and renting but I noticed prices are still going up! I will take my chances and sit tight for more appreciation. Either way its a risk. You dont sell, market tanks and you lose the equity. You sell, market keeps going up and you are shut out. Too risky for me. I just bought 3 years ago and I am tempted at taking the 250k equity and running!

Osman said...

Hey AngelaintheIE, come to Colorado. Despite what the post said - it's quite inexpensive out here. You can buy starter homes for about $200K (just put one under contract) or McMansions for $300K. Plus we have 300 days of sunshine a year, low taxes, and a growing/progressive/diversified economy.

To point, we recently attracted Crispin Porter + Bogusky from Miami to setup shop here. Read my post, Why Boulder

p.s. as an Indian like your husband, I've been pleasantly surprised by the growing "asian" population here. Good times!

David Sternfeld said...

Bubbles burst. Baloons deflate. Given the convergence of oil depletion, an unsustainable appetite for foreign debt feeding a near trillion dollar per year trade defict/now $9 trillion Federal Debt on the books (and another $50 Trillion in unfunded "Enron" type liabilities for Social Security, Medicare/Medicade and emergency appropriations for the "Long War") and the irrational bidding up of financialized things via cheap credit (share prices and houses), the day of reconning is much closer than most assume. In fact, most assume there will be no day of reconning. It is wise to observe all modern crashes (1720 forward) ocurred suddenly and at market peaks. If you don't have a seat on an exchange to assure your order gets executed, your life savings will be "executed".

We have a home in San Diego purchased six years ago for $320K that is now on the market for $780K. While we wanted to live here until we died (we're mid 50s) we are chosing to sell, augment our retirement savings (now in short term Treasury bills) and rent here till the market reverts to the mean (crashes?) in order to repurchase, or else move to a better all around location. Perhaps Portland, OR?

www.sustainlane.com has helpful suggestions on places to rent that have a solid balance of attributes one must consider.

David Sternfeld said...

Bubbles burst. Baloons deflate. Given the convergence of oil depletion, an unsustainable appetite for foreign debt feeding a near trillion dollar per year trade defict/now $9 trillion Federal Debt on the books (and another $50 Trillion in unfunded "Enron" type liabilities for Social Security, Medicare/Medicade and emergency appropriations for the "Long War") and the irrational bidding up of financialized things via cheap credit (share prices and houses), the day of reconning is much closer than most assume. In fact, most assume there will be no day of reconning. It is wise to observe all modern crashes (1720 forward) ocurred suddenly and at market peaks. If you don't have a seat on an exchange to assure your order gets executed, your life savings will be "executed".

We have a home in San Diego purchased six years ago for $320K that is now on the market for $780K. While we wanted to live here until we died (we're mid 50s) we are chosing to sell, augment our retirement savings (now in short term Treasury bills) and rent here till the market reverts to the mean (crashes?) in order to repurchase, or else move to a better all around location. Perhaps Portland, OR?

www.sustainlane.com has helpful suggestions on places to rent that have a solid balance of attributes one must consider.

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Anonymous said...

This mindset is exactly the problem. Rather than live happily where you are, you're encouraged to cashout and find someplace unspoiled. This leads to everyplace eventually getting spoiled. Maybe you can by a better view someplace else, but you're ruining someplace to get that better view that frankly you don't even notice, but want because you can brag about it. Lame.

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