March 30, 2006

Bush & Fox having a little chat about housing bubbles and immigration today


Wonder if they'll talk about what to do with the thank-you-housing-bubble-bursting, millions of soon-to-be-unemployed Mexican immigrants?

Instead of quotes from today's article on the summit, a quote from Teddy Roosevelt. Was he racist to discuss the issue in 1919? I don't think so.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...

There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919

62 comments:

Dogcrap Green said...

Kieth you say you are not raciest when you scream about imigration in specific regarding Mexico. Yet you use to live in Michigan. A state plaug by a much more serious problems. Canadians crossing the border.

Cunucks look like us and talk like us, but are genticlly inferior. There is nothing lazier and more worthless in this world than a Canadian, except maybe the the French. But the French Canadians are by far the lowest form of life on this planet. Unfit to call themselves human. These worthless POS cannot possible make a contribution to the world. How can you not be concern about Canucks diluting the American gene pool with their stupidity and lack of worth ethic. Not to even mention the risk millions of Americans are taking everyday by driving on the same road as a drunken Canuck.

And then there is the real criminal intent of millions of Canadians. Canucks traveling across the border with $1,000 of their worthless change with the intentions to use it in American vending machines is a real criminal in need of execution.

Weren't you tired of the way Canadian money was use to give back change in Michigan?

Not until you post about the real problem with the lazy, stupid, corrupt Canucks that all need to be export back to their rat hole, can you claim you are not raciest.

keith said...

dogcrap - if they're here illegally, send 'em on back too, and their loonies and toonies too

funny post

aeronet_412 said...

What about the three million children who are US citizens by birth but whose parents are illegals. A plan to send their parents back home and effectively orphan three million US citizens is not good public policy. Suppose their parents number six million, that is one-half the number of estimated illegals have a very good reason to remain in the US. If I were an illegal I would immediately make plans to have an anchor baby in the family.

The Thinker said...

Teddy Roosevelt's comment came at the close of WWI when there was some debate as to how immigrants from enemy nations should be treated if they still remain loyal to their country of origin.

Mexico is not an enemy nation.

aeronet_412 said...

The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads in part:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."


The forced removal crowd is saying we should strip citizenship from three million children. These children are US citizens, they cannot be deported. PERIOD. But lets consider that it might be possible to deport them. Many of them would probably die from starvation when they got back to their parents countries. Are you willing to send these children to die? Consider if only 10% die from disease and malnutrition, that is 300,000 murders. Since you are aware that they might die and you send them to this fate with that knowledge, it is with murderous intent that you take that action.

silverisgood said...

I will plead guilty on this blog, I am not a raciest, Or maybe I am/ would hating everyone be considerd a raciest?

Cause I hate everyone, so a raciest i am and proud!

Anton Chernov said...
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Ybbor said...

There is a Roosevelt is eluding to in past immigration vs current immigration. Back in the day, people from around the world came to America as settlers to become American. This is what our country is founded on, and what makes us great. These new Americans come here to build something better, and are productive members of society.

The problem with the current (other then it being ILLIGAL!) is that these people are not settlers coming to become American. These new immigrants maintain there language, culture, and in many cases send a large potion of there earnings back to there home country to support their families (thus removing much wealth that would have been re-circulated).

This new generation of immigrant has no intention of assimilating in to the American ‘melting-pot’. Roosevelt summed it up ‘Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.’

aeronet_412 said...

Hey Anton, I've changed my posting name as you asked. The maintainer of this blog is advocating sending them all back regardless. We can't send them all back, it is too late. In the future we can pass some laws, perhaps ammend the constitution, and build the wall. I believe the majority of them are here to stay.

It is my understanding that it in numerous court decisions and as recently as the 2004 SCOTUS decision "Hamdi vs Rumsfeld" that children born in the US are truly US citizens, and their rights cannot be stripped even if their parents are not US citizens.

Cannon Fodder said...

Ok people.....a little spelling would help. It is "racist," not "raciest."

The Thinker is correct in placing the Teddy Roosevelt comment in its proper context. During WWI, most immigrants could blend and assimilate into American society. When your skin color is different, assimilation is impossible.

When Hispanics/Latinos walk around with the Mexican or Ecuadorian flag, it is a sign of cultrual identification, not nationalistic desire.

Knowing personally the risks that many of these people took to get to the U.S., they are simply wanting a better way of life.

If you were in Mexico (or any other country south of us), making $1 a day and greater opportunity was availble in the U.S., wouldn't you cross illegally? If the hardship of separation from your family meant they could have a better life, wouldn't you do it?

devestment said...

Go to lower my bills.com and check out the terms of their loans. These people are legal loan sharks, read the fine print. Go to countrywide.com and check their products out too, it's like a freaking candy store of money, even for peeps with no credit and or down payment.

Anton Chernov said...
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Richard said...

teddy, he was so 1930's! today's world is all about globalization and the removal of such antiquated concepts as nation sovereignty and individual language and dialect. today's single language is commerce, plain and simple, and it will doom us all...

foreclose_me said...

"Hamdi vs Rumsfeld"

That case did not rule that illegal babies are citizens; it has not been ruled on by the Supreme Court. Primarily because it is obvious they are not citizens; the jurisdiction clause was added to make sure Indians wouldn't be citizens, so it most certainly means illegal aliens are not also.

Hamdi DID try to get himself ruled a citizen by virtue of the fact he was born in Louisiana because his parents were visiting the USA. The court did not rule on the claim.

Anton Chernov said...
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Dogcrap Green said...

Mexicans mexicans mexicans

Enough already.

I've lived in Arizona and Michigan.

All I have to say is no Mexican ever stoled my beer.

It's the Canucks we should be watching out for.

aeronet_412 said...

Anchor babies are US citizens. Maybe the current interpretation is contrary to the framers original intent, however the current law grants them citizenship, they are US citizens.


Imagine what will happen to these families when they get forced out and end up in the streets of Tegucigalpa and Managua with no money, no jobs, no place to live. I don't think people have really thought through the consequences of such an action.

If anyone should be criminally charged it is someone withholding basic humanitarian aid to the illegals already here or just maybe canucks who plot to steal your beer. "Who Would Jesus Deport". "Won't someone think of Los Ninos".

Cannon Fodder said...
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Cannon Fodder said...

As for cultural identification, this is just another euphemism for multi-culturalism: the opposite of the traditional melting pot. My foreign born grandparents only waved the American flag once they got here, and would have slapped me had I done otherwise. They were thrilled to be Americans. They also abandoned their native language THE DAY THEY ARRIVED HERE.


I think you missed my point anton_chernov. You are saying that your grandparents assimilated immediately. They would then have went through seven stages to achieve the assimilation you describe:

1) They changed their cultural patterns to those of the dominant group. The dominant cultural influence on the United States is Western European.

2) They developed large-scale primary group relationships with the dominant group.

3) Intermarried fully with the dominant group.

4) Lost their sense of peoplehood as separate from the dominant group

5) Encountered no discrimination.

6) Encountered no prejudiced attitudes.

7) Did not raise any issues that would involve value and power conflict with the dominant group.

Assimilation does not characterize the contemporary U.S. scene. Immigrants often develop institutions, agencies, and power structures for services within their ethnic communities. These enclaves exist as Little Italy, Chinatown, Harlem, Korea Town, East Los Angeles, Amish and Hutterite communities, and some settlements in rural areas. Hispanics/Latinos, whether legally or not in this country, can never assimilate with the dominant group. Therefore, cultural pluralism should be a goal.

Cultural pluralism allows two or more distinct groups to function separately without requiring assimilation of one into the other. Cultural diversity, in the form of a number of groups--political, racial, ethnic, religious, economic, or age--is exhibited in society. The coexisting groups approximate equal political, economic, and educational opportunity.

It is when we begin to see our cultural norms and behaviors not just as one approach, but as superior to others, that differences become politicized.

foreclose_me said...

All the talk about assimilation is moot. The Mexicans are not here as immigrants, they are here as invaders, expanding the territory of their own nation.

The framers did not write the 14th Amendment, and the 14th Amendment does not change the fact that Congress can extend or revoke citizenship of any one who is not 'subject to the jurisdiction' of the United States, meaning children of foreigners.

Anchor babies' only value is a birth certificate, which has been used as a proxy for assuming one is a citizen.

That could end at any moment, with or without an Act of Congress, or a ruling by any court. There are cases where Mexicans with a US birth certificate have been denied re-entry to the United States already, particularly when the Mexican crosses the border each day to attend US school.

Anton Chernov said...
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AngelaintheIE said...

Well said Anton. Living in Riverside, CA, I feel my family is being forced to assimilate into the hispanic culture. Schools are teaching spanish to kindergardeners and everything is printed in both english and spanish. I've received several school notices in spanish only. Grocery stores here are all now catered to the hispanic as well. I am not racist. Many of my best friends are hispanic. I just wish I have the choice to choose, and not be force fed their culture.

miguelv456 said...

As a Mexican, I see many people's nationalistic points. We could do the whole history thing but in reality "might does make right." You guys took the land, it's better runned then if Mexico had control of it. Fine, my point is that Mexicans WORK, we don't beg, some steal, some ask for health care they don't deserve but as far as 1st generation Mexicans we will pick up cans and bottles sleep in the parks before we beg or ask for services. My bone to pick is so many kids but those in control don't believe or like birth control, they don't want it taught nor do they think of the social benefits of abortions. Evil? Maybe, but realistic. Comments? (By the way before all the racists come yelling I can trace my family to California since 1787)

aeronet_412 said...

That could end at any moment, with or without an Act of Congress, or a ruling by any court. There are cases where Mexicans with a US birth certificate have been denied re-entry to the United States already, particularly when the Mexican crosses the border each day to attend US school.

By foreclose_me



I don't believe that, it sound like one legal viewpoint way out on the fringe. I don't doubt that in certain special cases citizenship would not be recognized. The idea that citizenship could be revoked is scary as hell to me. These people are citizens one day, but then the next day they are not, WTF?! Lets use my hometown of Denver, this year probably three thousand children will be born of illegal immigrant parents. Under the theory you put forth, none of them are US citizens and could be deported at any time. No wonder they are so pissed off.

Anton Chernov said...
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aeronet_412 said...

But the current practice and law is that anchor babies are US citizens. Now perhaps the 14th amendment will be reinterpreted in the near future and eliminate any future anchor babies. But any child born today and in the past of illegal alien parents is without a doubt a legal US citizen. Even if the reinterpretation is successful, I don't see how it will apply to those who are already citizens by birth. Even if it could apply, I have to believe that the authorities would interpret it in such a way as to presevere the legal status of those already born. I can't imagine that the powers that be would strip the citizenship of cute innocent little brown babies and ship them off to certain peril and possible death.

obscuredbyklaus said...

could this immigration sentimet be a foreteller of the economic recession to come? I vaguely remember this happening before in the US... when bad times come, immigrants are viewed negatively - maybe in today's case the sentiment is towards illegals more so than in the past. thoughts?

Anton Chernov said...
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foreclose_me said...

could this immigration sentimet be a foreteller of the economic recession to come? I vaguely remember this happening before in the US.

Could be... The last time immigration was heavily restricted was the 1920s when the eugenicists and other groups were a powerful force. Interracial marriage was banned as well. I think it is still on the books in one of the Southern states.

Anton Chernov said...
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foreclose_me said...

You're right about the interracial law; it is actually segregated schools. Alabama voted to keep them in 2004.

As for the other stuff, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just pointing out that immigration restriction was very popular just prior to the Great Depression. I don't know that it is related this time around, seeming to come much closer to the Main Event, rather than well prior as in the 1920s.

aeronet_412 said...

Lol, you really gave it to him Anton. I'm going to pass on the suggested visit to state prison, that place always gives me the creeps. Hispanic people don't commit crimes at any higher rate than anyone else, actually they commit less crime.

Cannon Fodder said...

You missed the point again Anton. I am done with you (and this blog).

Anton Chernov said...
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Anton Chernov said...
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aeronet_412 said...

I'm curious if you have ever visited any countries in central or south america. I've visitited 5 in the last few years and it completely changed my opinion. There was a time when I was pretty disgusted with the huge number of illegals in Denver who couldn't speak english. I really thought they should be deported. I've changed my opinion quite a bit since then. Though no doubt they drive down wages and raise our taxes. My uncles were drywall/constructions guys for years in Denver, but just try now to find that kind of work in Denver, it is all done for much less by illegals.

Anton Chernov said...
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aeronet_412 said...

I spent 3 days in Managua, Nicaragua with a group for a poverty relief effort. After seeing the slums of that city, I think it is almost inhumane to return people back into that environment. Though not all parts are that bad. Some cities are as beautiful as any. Perhaps if you returned the people with something like $5000 they could start a new life. Most likely though they would soon be parted from their buyout and remain in poverty.

outsourcethegovernment said...

"I'm curious if you have ever visited any countries in central or south america. I've visitited 5 in the last few years and it completely changed my opinion. There was a time when I was pretty disgusted with the huge number of illegals in Denver who couldn't speak english. I really thought they should be deported. I've changed my opinion quite a bit since then."

You never said why you changed your mind.

As for Illegal immigration, my mother was an illegal immigrant in the 50's. I was born here. I am a half breed american/anglo-mexican.

I am against all of these people coming here even though my mom came. I am not against this for ethnic reasons or legal reasons. I am against it because of the carrying capacity of the region. We simply don't have the room and resources and jobs for this many people.

Especially if the people coming in are breeding like rabbits.
My mexican uncle wanted to have 12 kids. He only had 6. I guess he was an under achiever.

Anyways, people are loosing site of reality and arguing very strange points ie: race, law, rights.

What about science. I think one of the biggest stories not talked about in this blog is peak oil. The housing bubble couldn't have happened without cheap oil. The illegal immigrants wouldn't have come here without the housing bubble providing jobs.

So now we are looking at the end of cheap oil and there are no cheap alternatives. Hydrogen is just a storage device, it requires cheap natural gas to make. It requires almost as much energy to make it as it provides.

So hydrogen isn't a replacement for cheap oil.

Anyway I am not a self hating mexican I just think someone needs to talk about carrying capacity.

People do this all the time on boats, for good reason, but curiously they don't do it on land,hmmm?

Anton Chernov said...
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JohnB said...

The amendment that grants citizenship must be amended to exclude those born to people in the country illegaly. Dual citizenship IS allowed by the U.S. with certain countries such as Israel, Canada, Germany although not all counties and certainly not Mexico. Please call you Senator today to vote against the amnesty "Guest Worker" bill being debated today.

gerlando_sciascia said...

anton chernov you can still move to panama. nobody is forcing you to stay in hideous tampa. so obviously you are an idiot for staying there if it disgusts you so much

JohnB said...

Please stop trying to frame this issue in racial terms. An illegal immigrant is illegal whether from Mexico, China, Ireland or where ever! Stop the illegal intrusion and squatting on our sovereign land! It's trespassing and theft, simple as that.

aeronet_412 said...

"Please stop trying to frame this issue in racial terms. An illegal immigrant is illegal whether from Mexico, China, Ireland or where ever! Stop the illegal intrusion and squatting on our sovereign land! It's trespassing and theft, simple as that."

Illegal immigrants are still people. Perhaps they have broken the law, but that must not be used to deny them their basic human dignity. They do have rights, for instance we cannot round them all up put them into ovens for easy disposal. Also we cannot go out and shoot illegals standing on the corner waiting for day labor. It is much more complicated beyond the basic fact they are illegal. If any of you would have been born south of the border, you have done the same thing.

Anton Chernov said...
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Anton Chernov said...
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Anton Chernov said...
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JohnB said...

"Illegal immigrants are still people. Perhaps they have broken the law, but that must not be used to deny them their basic human dignity. They do have rights, for instance we cannot round them all up put them into ovens for easy disposal. Also we cannot go out and shoot illegals standing on the corner waiting for day labor. It is much more complicated beyond the basic fact they are illegal. If any of you would have been born south of the border, you have done the same thing."
Yes, I probably would but I was born in the US and I have my own children's future to protect. It's
reality. Go home.

THB said...
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THB said...

dogcrap_green you smell really bad, go take a shower...might help you stop your racist crap.

aeronet_412 said...

Yes, I probably would but I was born in the US and I have my own children's future to protect. It's
reality. Go home.

By JohnB



If you are concerned about your childrens future, make certain they know a few languages. I hope you weren't expecting them to become drywall technicians. I think if you look more closely you will find your problem is with globalism, illegals are only a symptom. Attacking illegals might make you feel manly, it wont solve anything though. They are here to stay. A few million might be sent home at best. Most of them will become US citizens. Many more are still coming.

bubbles belong in the bong said...

ahhh, the bleeding heart liberals. think of the children...boo-hoo-hoo:^) unfortunately, the world is a tragic and unfair place.
should the lifeboats of the titantic turned around and been pulled under by the drowning masses? id bet that there are a few BILLION good, hard working people in the world who unfortunately live in a shit hole. should we turn back and pull them aboard too.
im of the opinion that there are too many people in the united states already. if the population leveled off or even better, declined, we could actually spend our energy improving society instead of just keeping up (or falling behind).
people always argue that america was founded by immigrants and that we have to keep the gates wide open. that was then...when the country was wide open and mostly un-populated. now...we face water shortages in the west and resource depletion across the world. my how the times have changed.
i am saddened by the situation for a majority of people on this planet, but the US must take care of itself. Other countries must take care of themselves. The biggest issue is population control! That has to come from within. I would gladly send billions of condoms if it would help. what disgusts me is the average selfish human. if i lived in a shit hole, i would not have one child, much less 5!!! why dont people stop thinking about creating a "family" and "old age security" and think about the poor miserable individual they create? unfortunately, the selfish and ignorant breed faster than caring, thoughtful people.
immigration control is not a race issue for everybody...some of us try to be rationalists.

VIC said...

OK

Doug O said...

One thing all you real estate buffs fail to consider is that Manifest Destiny may be been the biggest real estate scam of them all. During the Mexican American War, the United States acquired (stole) the northern half of Mexico. This area later became states of California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. Texas of course came earlier. The way I see it, Mexico is just getting its country back one Mexican at a time.

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