Has the psychology in America of home "ownership" being the "American Dream" changed, now that homes have destroyed lives, and are crushing angst-ridden free-falling debt-traps?
Will people want to 'own' homes again anytime soon, now that anyone associated with selling homes and mortgages is viewed as a criminal, and homes have led to massive job losses and a worldwide economic collapse?
Or is the REIC and NAR housing porn propaganda just too powerful to overcome the irrational and economically dubious desire to take out a 40-year loan and 'own' a home, in order to prove to your friends, family, co-workers and neighbors that you've 'made it' and 'arrived', and so you can paint the walls?
November 02, 2008
HousingPANIC Stupid Question of the Day
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28 comments:
I think it's going to take a long time for people to look at a home as an expense item like a car, a vacation, food.
There is this deeply-seated belief that houses and condos pay for themselves. We all still think that, if you 'buy' a house and then live in it for 30 years you get all your money back at the end.
It's kinda like back when everyone thought the world was flat. The navigation technology they had at the time proved the world was round but nobody would believe it until Christopher Columbus came back with a ship full of spices. It's going to take renters showing how much money we saved by being renters before anyone will believe that it really can be cheaper to rent, even in the long term.
Hey idiots out there who think Obama will only raise taxes above $250K...
the level has been reduced to $120K
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/31/low-
richardson-pegs-middle-class-making/
How long before it's down to $50K?
HOPE AND CHANGE!!
Nope, it's not dead yet! As long as my coworkers are still convinced that as purchasers they are economically superior to me, the renter, there will be a drive to purchase for vanity's sake. Only when people have lost so much money and wake up to the fact that many of us renters would not purchase their home at any price will they actually realize the idiocy of it all. Our government is working very hard to try to stabilize a huge housing and entitlement Ponzi scheme and people will only realize this in a few years once baby boomers demand their "investment" money from houses and stocks to actually live upon. This is only in it's infancy and there will be a huge stock market crash somewhere soon when they all REALLY wake up to what's happened to their life savings.
People with houses will be even more crushed by the demographic shift than they have by this downturn. Old people, no matter how young at heart, eventually need health care and hired help to assist with their everyday needs. That means assisted apartment living. Those few capable of actually staying in their houses long-term will be those with the smallest, easiest to manage homes and the fortunate gift of long term health. (Which these days is dubious due to the exercise and eating habits of our populace.) For the most part people deny that this highly probable situation will occur on top of this downturn. Housing is a cesspit full of sharks, leeches, and the greedy. People refuse to see the seedy side of this nightmare and it is still "the American dream" until losses really settle in and people wake up. Our fiat currency should help nicely to psychologically placate the homeowners while all the rest of us lose our life savings to inflation. %^*(&@!
Rose
Renters:
Renting is like taking the bus. Sure it might be more economical. But if you take the bus instead of own a car you might as well stamp a big L on your forehead because you are a loser.
Sorry, that is just reality.
And here's a thought...if nobody ever bought houses, who would you rent them from?
The American nightmare.
Did you see this article:
Home-Buying Up Among Lame-O's
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27886
After reading that you have to wonder who the real losers are.
JA - I'm giving that one its own thread. Hilarious.
Anonymous who suggests renters wear an "L"
might as well stamp a big "I" on his forehead; as he is an true imbecile (and no doubt home debtor). I don't care what you do, I wouldn't want to be like you.
"But if you take the bus instead of own a car you might as well stamp a big L on your forehead because you are a loser."
It's not that someone IS a loser but people certainly feel like losers since people w/o souls "dress for success" and "keep up with the Jones."
It's about living in the World Of Disney.
So I don't see things changing one bit.
If you have a good landlord, he might let you paint the walls you know.
Mainstream America should realize that car and house debt/ownership are not a prerequisite for being a contributing member of society.
Guess I'll take the bait...
That's why you pay cash for your car and then keep it forever, L. Maybe a lot of disadvantaged people take the bus, but it sure beats shelling out $500 a month for years on your car loan if you live on limited income. Economic snobbery is idiocy, you should be grateful for those who realize what they can afford and then live within their means. Especially if they are people on government assistance which YOU are paying for. Do you want to pay for them to "own" a Cadillac? How about "own" a home... that's worked out well, hasn't it?
Yes renters pay every month. But we don't pay upkeep, utilities, cable, internet, insurance, taxes, it's all bundled in... that's what landlords are for. Our quality of life is awesome. It's shortsighted to think that people rent because they don't HAVE the money to buy. Sometimes people rent because they are able to do basic math... and thus recognize when a deal is bad for their economic health.
Fundamentals remain the same.. why should I put down $40,000 then pay an additional $160,000 + interest to own a crap shack that will take many years of painful toil to pay off? Especially if I can take a nice vacation on the interest earned if I just leave the money in the bank?
If it was $80,000, in decent condition in a decent neighborhood then sign me up. The point is, most people don't make enough to be able (or at least want to) put down a large down payment on an expensive (but depreciating) house, especially in the Midwest.
Duh to your question of who you'd rent from if nobody bought houses. It's so obvious, the bank. That's what you're doing, right?
Rose
Owning property is a deeply-ingrained psychological value, rooted in centuries of abuse in the "Old Country." Among Irish, owning your own piece of land means you cannot be starved. It's that basic.
Jersey Girl
You can't stop the good people of the great USA from wanting a home anymore than you can stop them from wanting a mate in life. It's goes to the depths of our DNA, our very nature as nurturing the continuum of the species. To want to rest in the comfort of of our personal affects and cultural nuances and individuality away from the madding crowds and the endless chaos of modern civilization.
It's also a good place to put all your meaningless, worthless mass produced crap that you've accumulated in the pointless endeavor you call existence. It's also where you make, so-called "love", to that fat, bitching, money-spending "thing", you call a wife. And it's the place where you bring up the next generation of yard-monkeys and mold the spoiled brats into consuming, lazy, obnoxious, moronic, so-called adults.
Yes, America the Beautiful, love-it-leave-it, or booze and dope-it out of your mind, it shall go-on........
Anon November 02, 2008 3:36 PM:
I'm in my 10th year of homeownership or renting from the bank, however you want to look at it. I don't take the bus, but I do walk a lot of places. Now that's the most economical choice!
In my younger days I would see someone walking down the street and immediately think, 'loser'. But that presumed I knew more about them than the fact that they were walking down the street.
Having people question my success, my skill with money, my level of debt etc. because I prefer to save rather than spend helped me mature.
These days I recall the story of my grandfather almost getting kicked out of a furniture store because the salesman thought he was a bum until he started pulling wads of cash out of his pocket, and I think "there we go!". That's more up my alley, rather than the hypocrite who vocally demands respect because he pulls up in a Lexus, then turns around and starts treating people like shit.
Bus? Shouldn't that be analogy for condo? or having roommates? The problem with bus is not that you don't own it; it's that you have to share it with people that you can't stand. Renting a single-family house is like having a chaffered company car . . . all the driving and upkeep are taken care of.
Great article on Renting vs. Loan Ownership
http://tinyurl.com/6h3tkz
I rent a home last listed for $500k in '07 (didn't sell). My rent is $1500/mo (leaving the owners about $700 short each month, not including maintenance), and I have a m-t-m lease. If I dumped all of my savings (currently generating interest, though only 3%) into a down payment, that $1500/mo would get me into a $230k home, which in Tucson is still, inexplicably, a DUMP. That home would also be depreciating, at least in the short term, and, as with most homes in Tucson (except the lovely one I rent, ironically), the extensive deferred maintenance would require regular and significant repair. When the $250k dumps are priced at $150k, and my rental is under $300k, I might reconsider. The economy here is in freefall; it would be risky to buy anything except at half of peak appraisal, max.
Its the women dummy!
Men know better now, they can rent and be just fine with that.
However, women need to feel accepted and feel like they "own" their home so they can fit in with the other bimbos on the block who dont have a clue about finances. Not "owning" is a stigma, as they might be seen as the lowly renters by their ignorant cronies.
Until men can sack up and start breaking the whips the true value of real estate wont be revealed.
Honestly, homes are still selling in this market! Think for a minute about why. You can live in denial nad try to be PC or accept the facts.
Rememeber the Suzanne ad? Maybe I have offended some by saying this, but F%$^ it. When it comes to telling the truth, PEOPLE NEED TO BE OFFENDED.
DA
I think there will be a change. The most speculative and those uninformed house owners who were bailed out will be stuck in their houses for a long time. From what I read, the rescue plan keeps people in their with elongated mortgage terms. No reduction in principle, just longer terms at reduced interest. These people will not readily sell since their house appreciation will be a function of principle paydown, not inflation. Those who were not bailed out and go banckrupt will have severe issues getting a mortgage. The rest of who are still under mortgage will have the opportunity to move up or the down but a higher cost.
And lastly, those Baby Boomers within 15 years of retirement, who still have a mortgage (not me I'm retired and free) will tend to stay put until the dust settles. The boomers trust and cockyness has been shaken. My fellow boomers are scared shi$%^ess by the realization that the real estate sure thing backfired on them and the trusty stock market screwed their 401K's. Wait till the market turns down due to Obama winning, and there is liquidation in equities.
These boomers will be buying bank CD's exclusively. Trust in the equity markets will disappear.
In my neighborhood, people are dressing up their houses for sale next Spring. You can see all the staging shit going on.
Given the excess existing housing inventory, more foreclosures ,plus new inventory on the market in the Spring, massive layoffs, higher interest rates, tighter credit terms and reduced credit limits, how can anyone see a quick recovery? Unless you are a lemming following the misguided gospel of CNBC and the political talking heads.
Times have changed and still the majority of the nation has no clue.
Who, in their right mind, would ever use a Realtor again? For that matter, who would use a financial advisor? Do your homework, and avoid these crooks.
Nope. in the newspaper today (Oregonian, here in portland OR) there is an article how some housing counseling group helped a single female get into a condo with zero down and zero mortgage insurance.....
And the woman is all happy she is now a "home owner".
bubble hasn't fully burst in Oregon.
If you are involved in your local community and plan to live there for a long time, owning makes sense. (at the right price)
When you contribute to the quality of local schools, defend the quality of the local environment and do your part to maintain a friendly local culture, you help make your neighborhood desirable and thus boost local house prices.
If you rent, your community involvement creates value for your landlord. If you own, your community involvement creates value for you.
I rent a house with another dude and I get laid WAY more often than when I was a married homeowner. And for all you haters I'm also WAY more introspective, thoughtful and emotionally healthy. Oh ya! this american male creature is winning, suck it. Not to mention young chicks (early 20's) aren't impressed by home ownership. However vehicles are a different story ;) Life is good for this aging lizard.
Must...buy...real estate...
First of all, let's end the comparison between home ownership and that of a vehicle. In most areas, a vehicle is a necessity. Buses and trains only make radial passes, in and out of urban locales. Jobs/contracts, and shopping centers are located along roads and highways.
Now, a Toyota Corolla still costs $13-15K and last roughly 15 or so years, which boils down to a $1K per year cost of ownership and then perhaps, another $200-$500 a year of maintenance which includes the high end items, after the warranty is gone, like the starter, alternator, timing belt, radiator, pads/rotators, etc. As for the value added services of owning a compact, this is a deal!
And that's it. No one is expected to own a Hummer, a Lexus, or a Mercedes for utilitarian purposes. Likewise, when the rent to own carry costs is still 2 to 1, in many coastal cites, there's no utilitarian need to own a place. When that equilibrates back to the traditional 1.25 to 1 ratio then we look into buying again.
i was shocked to see what looked like half this city going for sale as units at less than 50 grand or that the "Bad" side of town was half the town.................................
that a city of millions..........
In the UK the idea of buying a house is still appealing but has been unattainable to many for years. Our government has recently introduced Help to Buy schemes such as 5% deposits, part buy part rent, equity loans, etc., as well as prioritising affordable housing
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