October 14, 2008

So, do you think the housing crash, stock market crash, credit crunch and economic panic will have a fundamental and positive impact on Americans?

Will they save more?

Will they treat houses as homes and not lottery tickets?

Will they no longer trust realtors and people on commission?

Will they demand an investigation of the corruption in DC?

Will they cut up their credit cards?

Will they stop with the over-consumption?

Will they appreciate non-material things more?

Will they understand the importance of a basic a financial education?

Will they want their leaders to address the entitlements timebomb?

Will they demand the guilty be arrested and the REIC be controlled?

Will they turn off the video games and TV and pick up a book?

Will they come to see that China now owns us?

Will they take power away from the Baby Boomers and turn it over to leaders who will behave responsibly and ethically and in the best interests of the world?

Will they turn off the housing porn?


Will they shrug it off, forget about it in a few days, and go right back to the destructive behavior and attitudes that got them and us into this mess?


Anonymous said...

Of the two scenarios, which one is the Establishment spending trillions to ensure?

That scenario is your answer.

Anonymous said...

we will demand that our government do more for us!

Anonymous said...

No, no, no, no, no, definitely not, hell no, hell would freeze over first, I don't think more than %10 know what entitlements are, no, books are hard to read so no, no, no, possibly, and finally: almost certainly. Unless people's belief systems around money and what is important in life (which are incredibly well trenched) change significantly and for many people not much will change.

Anonymous said...

First of all,the crisis is not over it is just beginning even if the bailout papers over the symptoms for a few month. It will come back far worse. Why? Before you just had deadbeats default on their payments. Now you have a bunch of pissed of and formerly responsible people that will purposely default on their payments because they want part of the action. I want my payments reduced as well. Moral hazard cubed.
As for the average American, unless they're living under a bridge for a few years it won't register with them.

Anonymous said...

NO, NO, NO and uhm let's see, HELL NO.

All this has taught people is do whatever you want, live as irresponsibly as you want and just make sure to vote for a Democrat who will fix it all for you.

Anonymous said...

I think smart people who are savers and live within their means will continue to do the same with an better quality of life. We got a call from the brother-in-law over the weekend. Picture if you will, we are on vacation (off season and a friends beach house cheap,cheap) He calls which he never does and at the end of the call, asks for some money to make rent. My wife said that we would talk about it and call him back. This guy dropped out of high school, married a meth head and had two kids and then split. He has 4 quad runners in his garage and XM in his SUV. He works construction and it is all under the table. We talk about 2 minutes and both said no way, he has chosen this path and must learn to live with the money he makes. They have 3 incomes but just can't quite make it. STOP buying and wasting SOOO much money. I told my wife the next call will be from the Father-in-law who is up to his neck in HELOCs and loans on every toy known to rednecks. Good luck savers they will come knocking!!!!

Anonymous said...

Maybe if day-to-day life changes. That will punish everyone, even those who are not mindless pigs.

Anonymous said...

















Anonymous said...

Look Keifer,

They aren't going to do shit. They'll go back to watching Dancing with the Stars, obsessing about Angelina/Brad and buying more poor quality, mass produced useless crap at Walmart. Seriously, I don't think more than 10% of the general population understands what is going on... just some vague scary thing that is threatening their HELOC...

The one thing I'll bet they do: if they're asked to be 'patriotic' again by going shopping, they'll answer the call with more zeal than Sarah Palin at a prayer meeting.

Anonymous said...

Oh poor poor renters. You saved, you scrimped, you lived in a shithole apartment and drove a 1983 Honda. I lived it up in a mansion, drove new luxury cars and didn't save a dime.

And now you will pay my mortgage for me. I will keep my house. I will keep my cars. I enjoyed the trips. I wore the clothes. I drank the booze. I enjoyed the 4 and 5 star restaurant meals. All of it paid with borrowed money that I will never have to pay back thanks to you, the sucker taxpayer.

And yet somehow you tinfoil hatters still think you won. You guys crack me up.

Anonymous said...


We are a nation of hypocritical schemers.

Everyone talks about their values and then turns around and screws his neighbor.

Anonymous said...


Yes to the last thing you said.

Anonymous said...

The leopard cannot change his spots.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Afterthought said...
Of the two scenarios, which one is the Establishment spending trillions to ensure?

That scenario is your answer.


At least until Hyper-Inflation sets in... They they will swap the gubment with demands for a food bailout.

Anonymous said...

Many sheeple still hope for housing prices to go up. If they don't, they'll find a new bubble to invest in.

Anonymous said...

I will not turn off my video games!

(But I can only stand to play through a couple of games for a couple weeks at a time... then I have to pick up some books.)

I have done or are working on most of the other things. Will my fellow Americans do the same? Probably not by choice.

Anonymous said...

I dont know. Hymmm...
Let's ask Andrew Hac what he thinks...

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, I wager it won't. Today Obama is talking about letting folks temporarily raid their 401ks penalty free... (Wow! The new HELOC!)

But you know me, Keith... I like to look on the bright side. I think more and more among the younger-than-boomer generations are being gradually transformed. Many of them have already grown up with less financial security, less access to healthcare & scholarships, less luxury in general and they're ready for change.

The big clean-up is coming. And guys like Dick Fuld just look ridiculous. ("Grandpa lost everyone's college money at the racetrack...") I see reform and re-regulation on our horizon.

Regards, L.

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

I think we need Andrew Hac to answer this question.

Sean O'Daniels said...

It will be a perceived positive effect. Gov't will come out like the savior, but in the long run will only take away more of our liberties.

Anonymous said...

Considering we ended the panic phase in 1 week and are now well on our way to optimism?

If anything we've learned that besides just Freddie and Fannie May, large banks, money market funds, corporate payrolls and many other sources of debased capital have an implicit guarantee from the government. My mistake, the guarantee is now more than implicit -- it's well defined.

Now that these institutions are government backed and everyone can just continue with their reckeless ways, I'm starting to think that this equity bubble is just the prelude to an even larger one several years from now....

Anonymous said...

We most certainly will not learn from this. I suggest that history proves this with quite certainty.

I actually wrote about a similar topic on our real estate blog! When times are good, we get so greedy and drunk on the possibility of making such easy money that all fundamentals get tossed out the window.

As the cycle progresses, we do what we are doing now, we look in the rear-view mirror, scratch our heads, and wonder how we ever got to this point as if any of this is a big surprise.

Some things never end! The boom / bust cycle is one of them.

Anonymous said...

Of course Americans will change. This 2008 great depression has been a true awakening for the masses. I mean come on - 8 whole days of the OJ trial tv coverage being interrupted by some talk about money or banks or something, at least I think that's what they were talking about? I usually just change the channel when that boring stuff comes on. Anyway, yeah I just applied for a new credit card at circuit city because my best buy card is maxed out, and I totally want that new rock band video game. Also I don't really care about banks because I cash my check at the payday advance place, it's a little closer to my apartment.
Nothing will change until real pain and hardship is felt.

Anonymous said...

using new name, old one was too descriptive..

man i've been pretty much off the internets for 3 weeks (had baby), what'd i miss?

as for this question. of course the americans will change. just like they have with gas...oops, no, pretty much people who have kept their jobs have gone back to their same old ways now that gas is a bargain at $3. the idiocracy of america has no memory, they are brainless.
it's as if they are a bare-bones computer with no hard drive, just some ram for short term memory and a cpu. their operating system is the tee vee. they dont use a complicated keyboard, just a mouse.

Anonymous said...

Is either candidate talking about Medicare, Social Security or balancing our budget?
There's your answer.

Anonymous said...

I think it may change some attitudes and values. In my opinion, what all this shows is that regulation is necessary since greed, being part of human nature, will always need to be contained.

Anonymous said...

NO WAY !!! It will be forgotten in a few day's . Back to business as usual.

Anonymous said...


Vice Virtue
Lust Chastity
Gluttony Temperance
Greed Charity
Sloth Diligence
Wrath Patience
Envy Kindness
Pride Humility

NOPE....we have a long way to go.

Anonymous said...

Considering the government has done everything in its power (and even a couple things outside of its power) to prevent the punishment or any pain for those reponsible for this mess do you really think any of these fools will learn?

These morons will be right back to their ways within one calendar year. And within 5-10 years we will go through this same disaster, only 10 times worse.

Instead of weaning the average American idiot off heavy debt like the government should, it is enabling the behavior and encouraging it. Deleveraging can be put off, but it will come one way or another. Eventually even working until death without a day of retirement won't be able to pay off the average idiots debts.

What happens then? I hope I won't be around to find out.


Anonymous said...

American's today do not have the educational backround or mental capacity to understand what is going on or understand that their behaviour is destructive. I'm talking about the average schmo off the street here that gets all of the information from bubble TV and hot air radio and taking it as the gospel truth.

American's putting down their video games and other passive entertainment products and picking up a book? HAHAHAHAHA!! You've got to be kidding. Well, they might pick up a Harry Potter book but they wouldn't go near anything that requires analytical skills.

Anonymous said...

Once the bailout gets underway in a big way (more loans, another stimulation packagage, govt. buying up houses, etc.), Americans will go back to business as usual.

Had the bailout not happened, Americans would have gone back to basics.

Anonymous said...

He has 4 quad runners in his garage and XM in his SUV.

I think you should loan him the money, as a good brother-in-law.

Now... how much many can you get selling off his 4 quad runners and SUV that he pawns off to you?

(Guns are cool, too... I knew an officer in the military that would loan to anyone who asked him... as long as they had a gun to put up for collateral... he amassed quite a collection that way!)

Anonymous said...

I don't give a shit! Friends and even family constantly ask me if I am worried and full of anxiety like they are. You see, I am a Fucked Borrower and they are Fucked Savers. The people who are sweating up this financial storm are the Fucked Savers since they have the most to lose while we Fucked Borrowers have nothing to lose! You HP'ers are hoping for a Deflation so prices come crashing down. I have news for you and you may not like it, but here it is; the entire world government knows that we may see massive deflation and prices for all asset prices come crashing down, thus they will print as much money as possible to avoid it. Instead of taking the Deflation pill, they will opt for the Inflation pill and all of you Fucked Savers money will be worth a whole lot less.

Anonymous said...

I will buy your toys.
.03 on the equity dollar.

Example: $ 3,000. value paid for quad = $ 90. cash.

Take it or Leave it (go hungry).

You're Welcome.

Anonymous said...

Nothing will change. Most Americans are too ignorant, stupid, greedy and arrogant to make any changes in their totally self-absorbed, self-centered lives.

Ross said...

We will learn from this and then forget all the lessons two or three generations from now.

Anonymous said...

"Oh poor poor renters. You saved, you scrimped, you lived in a shithole apartment and drove a 1983 Honda. I lived it up in a mansion, drove new luxury cars and didn't save a dime.

And now you will pay my mortgage for me. I will keep my house. I will keep my cars. I enjoyed the trips. I wore the clothes. I drank the booze. I enjoyed the 4 and 5 star restaurant meals. All of it paid with borrowed money that I will never have to pay back thanks to you, the sucker taxpayer.

And yet somehow you tinfoil hatters still think you won. You guys crack me up."

So what would people like you do if savers and HPers "got wise" and didn't save? Who would bail your asses out, then?

You laugh at us, but deep down inside you know you need us. If it weren't for us, you'd be losing everything. Maybe next time around, more people will uh, "get wise"...then we'll see what happens.

Stop playing this game, or you will lose!

Anonymous said...

Why do so many Americans claim to be religious when their lifestyle is full of vice, greed, hate, and selfishness? Christianity as practiced in the USA is a perversion! GOP, the party of God? Who the fuck came up with that??

If Jesus Christ came back and saw what has become of the religion he founded, he'd be shocked!

Christmas 2008 is coming, overconsume for Jesus sheeple! How can the economy "grow" if the sheeple don't consume.


AndrewHac said...

This Americano nation and its citizens, occupants, dwellers are low, pitiful, pathetic, shameful and despicable.

How can you call yourself the greatest nation on Earth when dishonor, immorality, greed, cheat is every day's code of conduct, the way to conduct business in the land of the Snapper Turtle ???

Look around you: What do you see ? Fat-ass Americano male and female driving that chicken-coop, pig-raising SUV or F350, for what I may ask ? So you can feel big and powerful, huh !!!. Here is a suggestion if you want to feel all almighty, big, and powerful: Go and invade Red China, right now, at this minute, and see what the result may turn out to be. And that Red China that you, Americano, call them Chink, ain't Iraq. So don't even think or try to play that WMD game that the Americano is famous of.

As I have stated over and over again: This land of the Fat-Ass Americano Homosexual Erectus is a cesspool of sewage that is starting to overflow into the McMansion. And to add insult to that, the Americano is being slowly roasted nicely over a bed of white hot charcoal, skewered from mouth to ass like a Snapper Turtle skewered on a green Chinese bamboo stick, juice dripping down, fat oozing, sputtering, succulent flesh aromatically wafting hungryly in the air.

Americano Homosexual Erectus == Roasted Snapper Turtle !!!

Go Hick, Hillbilly and Cracker Nuthead. Party all you can while the going is still good. Drink that Cold Mountain rotgut moonshine until you puke your snapper turtle gut out. The doomday is coming and it will judge you and your heathen crowd justly.

The land is slowly sinking into a quagmire of putrid waste, foul smelly sewage, ankle deep in human excrement.
The sky is darkening more and more every minute as the time is drawing near for the judgement fate of the roasted Americano.

"Thou shall be judged and judged rightly..."

Anonymous said...

We are not at bottom yet. I thought you were the fearless leader of this blog. How can you be saying the panic is over. We still have the debasing of the U.S. dollar, inflation, job losses, and more still yet to come. No we haven't learned anything because we didn't suffer enough. That breaks my heart to say but I also don't feel we've hit the bottom like you do either.

Anonymous said...

My best friends brother bought a custom 28' open bow 600hp boat two years ago....approx $120k

He has had little use of it and his work is really slowing down.

He made mention of selling it.

I said, "So you take a little loss, at least you'll be out from underneath it".

His response,


Good luck pal!


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

no because when the stocks went up 900 points people said thank god it's over now lets get back to ripping people off, overcharging, sticking them, white collar holdups, and my 350 million yearly paycheck. it's so good to be a republican.

Mark in San Diego said...

Probably back to normal. . .Paul Volker once said, "never bet against the American consumer." They will use the last bit of credit to consume, then go to a pawn shop, and borrow on old junk to consume new junk. . .then go to payday advance, etc. etc. THEN when they can't pay any bills, they do a quick TV Lawyer Bankruptcy, and start over again. . .the American way.

Anonymous said...

A friend of mine bought part of farm about 25 years ago. It included 6 acres, a barn built in the early 1800's, 3 ponds and a big outbuilding for $20,000. She renovated/restored the barn. Converted it to a beautiful living space. Not in the modern sense...no granite countertops, no stainless steal appliances...if you drove by you'd think there were still cows inside. I spent many wonderful weekends fixing stone walls, planting fruit trees, building fences, digging gardens, painting...Then, the chickens, turkeys, ducks, geese and goats came. Then, the coyotes came. (The state had reintroduced them in a State Park) One morning we found Toscanini's head (her beautiful rooster). The coyotes got him. Then, she got a gun. Some years later we were sitting outside with friends and were discussing the incredible amount of snapping turtles everyone was seeing. It had been a very, very wet spring. Her friend said the best way to kill them was to put a stick in front of them. They'll stick their neck out really far and bite the stick. Then, you chop their head off. Well, not a week went by and I was there again. Evidentally, a huge snapping turtle was eating the baby ducklings. The next week my friend saw the turtle in her driveway. She jumped in the car and ran it over. Not once, but 5 times. I was horrified.

So Keith (and Andrew), what really frightens me is knowing that the coyote won't change. The snapping turtle won't change. Instead, we'll change.

Anonymous said...

Probably not. They will continue to buy overpriced plywood boxes that they pass as houses, eat out at the Outback, shop for groceries at Whole Foods, buy that funky LCD TV from Best Buy, get their cheapass Made in China crap from Walmart, and post self-important messages on blogs online.

Take away the NFL and beer though, and you'll have a revolution on your hands.

Anonymous said...

Realtors, and people on commission, are simply out to screw the public. They are scum.