"This really is an economic Pearl Harbor. That sounds melodramatic, but I've never used that phrase before. And this really is one"
- Warren Buffett, October 2008
(side note - I'd like to thank the traitors to America who got us here. You know who you are. I hope it was worth the dirty commissions you pocketed for screwing your fellow man)
October 02, 2008
HousingPANIC Quote of the Day
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SAUCE PLZ
Did I just hear that the FHA "Hope for Homeowners Act" passed? And that this will reduce interest rates, principal and payments to distressed "homeowners". Anybody know more about this?
We said the banks would fail. No more lines anymore, just keystrokes - a 'silent bank run'.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/business/story/226799.html
By the way, I've got a straaaaaaaaaange feeling...
Anyone else?
Bombs away!
I just about fell out of my chair when I heard that Warren Buffett was comparing this financial mess to Pearl Harbor. WTF!?
SERIOUSLY, let's compare:
Pearl Harbor was a SURPRISE ATTACK perpetrated by enemies of the U.S. to attempt to destroy our freedom and way of life.
Unless you've been living in a cave in Peru (that you didn't buy with a sub-prime laon, LOL!), it would be absolutely impossible to have missed the handwriting on the wall!
We've been discussing the current situation for YEARS, so there's nothing here that is a SURPRISE to anyone. Maybe this is news for the average J6P who doesn't follow such things, but it had better not have been a "SUPRISE" to the government or Buffett. That's incredibly hard to fathom, esp. since Buffett is positioning to PROFIT off this mess!
Furthermore, this mess was caused NOT by our enemies, but by AMERICANS who are traitorous for sacrificing the financial future of America for their own self-interests.
What's there left to say when selling out one's country has become fashionable? Hell, I served 10 years in the U.S. military to PROTECT our Constitution, but that kind of thing is so passe nowadays, apparently...
financial melt-down
Watch the video I posted - there were warnings with pearl harbor that were ignored. assumptions that were made that were dead wrong. confidence that something like that could never happen to america, etc etc.
the comparison is sound.
this is our economic 9/11. our financial pearl harbor.
and HP'ers will be written about years from now, as having tried to warn the nation and the world, but failed, as the nation and the world didn't want to listen.
"2 Army privates running the radar screen"
Bushco - Cheneyburton?
This clip reminds me of the 2008 McCain campaign.
The Arizona blowing up and sinking will be the Palin analogy after tonights debate.
McCain insisting on parking all the ships together in the harbor, assuring mass destruction =
"I believe the The Fundamentals of the Economy Remain Strong"
seinile out-of-touch elderly warmonger.
"By the way, I've got a straaaaaaaaaange feeling...
Anyone else?"
Keith,
Please elaborate what you are feeling.
I feel violence and breakdown coming. So sad. People are very worried and panicky now. They will soon move to terrified.
If $700 billion can't calm the market, what can?
Ben has 2 points left in his gun.
I don't know if the banks come with a 'reset' button
It's a romantic notion to make this comparison, but I'm calling B.S. on this one.
Warren Buffett has his entire empire resting on the fate of the stock market (duh!), and he's now heavily invested (with GE, Goldman Sachs, etc) BASED on this bail-out package going thru. Heck, he's said he wouldn't have bought into Goldman Sachs if he thought the package WASN'T going to be passed.
So he's hardly a detached observer here, and is piling on the rhetoric to help get the Bill passed. Fine, but let's not denigrate the sailors who's remains are still entombed in the USS Arizona (Pearl Harbor Museum) by saying this crisis rises to the level of what they died for. The current financial crisis does NOT, and what an insult to suggest it does!
Besides, Bush et al are NOT getting off the hook THAT easily, and that's partly why Buffett is comparing this to Pearl Harbor, as if it were an action outside of AMERICAN control.
Remember, Bush and his admin have been engaging in any number of shenanigans to DENY the severity and possible consequences of this problem, from Bernanke saying the economy is sound, Paulson with his "sub-prime has been contained", stock market manipulations via PPT, Cox restricting short sales, etc.
So about a month ago, Bush FINALLY 'gets it,' and decides that this crisis is an EMERGENCY that must be addressed by Paulson's original draft within (3) days, or the financial world will melt-down.
Once again, Bush has done a piss-poor job of:
1) preparing the Nation to explain the severity of the crisis, in due time.
2) Explaining it properly.
It's clear the admin knows how to 'sell' legislation (to wit, look at the Patriot Act, a mis-worded Orwellian title if there ever WAS one), and for whatever reason, they dropped the ball here.
I'm not buying any of this: I don't think the 'bail-out' will change anything at this point (too little, too late: we've ALL heard that before, right?), and is nothing but an excuse to load more pork into a bill and stick the taxpayer with the tab. In other words, this is 'business as usual' in the House and Senate, and Buffett's attempts to drum up support is also business as usual.
Don't forget Buffett is giving his cash to charity. The guy truly is a saint. Lives in the same crappy house all his life, builds and supports good companies, gives it all away
Nobody else like him.
Time for the chart again Keith. I think this week is the tipping point to PANIC!No more denial.
About these BOA rumors about bank closings . . . I'm thinking damn this rumor is everywhere on the net. When there is smoke there is fire.
Keith, you can't stop now. This is YOUR moment, keep it going. You had some burn out but now, your work has just started. Next after the elections; DepressionPANIC
Laura
Thanks Laura but it's not burn-out, it's the desire to tell the story and end the book at its natural end.
It is wrapping up though I think. The best crash is a swift one, so we can move on. What I fear is this going on and on and on for years and years, because the government keeps getting in the way of the market getting back to where it's gonna go anyway.
The election is an important event. We'll see how it goes down. It might in many respects be the bottom, with the transition in January being the new day.
BTW, I got a laugh out of this:
[i]"Like most Americans, I'd rather let Wall Street pick up after itself, but the outrageous mess that started there is threatening Main Street and Congress has to act," the Montana Democrat said. "This plan isn't perfect, but it's unfortunately necessary to keep the financial crisis from creeping even further into our communities, keeping our businesses and families from getting the credit they need, causing job layoffs and deeper economic hurt at home."[/i]
Hey, didn't they say the same thing about 'sub-prime is contained'?
Frankly, if this credit meltdown means I quit getting those annoying and unsolicited relentless credit card apps in the mail, then so much the better! Bring it on, I say!
The article continues:
[i]"Although it was reluctantly praised by Baucus, the Senate measure drew opposition from both sides of the political spectrum, with Sens. Jim Demint, R-S.C., and Pete Sessions, R-Ala., opposing the bill as an unwarranted intrusion into the free market system while the Senate's only self-proclaimed socialist, Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., decried it as a bailout of Wall Street millionaires on the backs of the middle class.[/i]
LOL! Even an avowed self-professed socialist decries this bill for what we actually have here: FASCISM. The pork barrel additions (which are being labeled as 'sweeteners') are a hallmark of FASCISM.
I bet this socialist is pissed, as FASCISTS like Bush/Cheney are giving socialists a bad name! :)
my American dream-cup runneth over.
lock 'n load.
[i]Don't forget Buffett is giving his cash to charity. The guy truly is a saint. Lives in the same crappy house all his life, builds and supports good companies, gives it all away
Nobody else like him.[/i]
You don't amass that kind of wealth by being a saint, LOL!
Keith, there's been a longstanding tradition for BILLIONAIRES to give away most of fortunes AFTER they've amassed them. Partly for tax reasons, but primarily as the ultimate gesture of having 'won' in the capitalism game.
These types donate funds to schools to create libraries in their names, create endowments, etc.
He (and someone like Bill Gates) is simply following in the footsteps of a tradition followed by Andrew Carnegie, JP Morgan, etc.
Buffet like Soros is just another agent of the New World Order.
According to Buffet we're headed for a sharecropper society or neo-feudalist serfdom:
Warren Buffett on the Sharecropper Society
So much for the Land of the Free.
Everyone should also read "The Road to Serfdom" so you can see where we're headed with all this government intervention. Government intervention only intensifies until there is a complete collapse in society.
The Road to Serfdom
[i]What I fear is this going on and on and on for years and years, because the government keeps getting in the way of the market getting back to where it's gonna go anyway.[/i]
I'm afraid I agree with you here. People seem to think this is going to be an easy fix, with the gov't throwing more $$$ at the problem and letting someone else (namely, our children) deal with it.
Newsflash: we ARE our parent's children, and the problems we're seeing have been building for DECADES, not just months. WE'RE the generation that will have to deal with this mess.
Unfortunately, the recovery will be much more prolonged that most anyone is thinking, as you don't correct these problems in a year or two, and most people are unfamiliar with the time course of the Great Depression or Japan's Lost Decade.
Warren Buffett can kiss my ass! He has enough money (or had- maybe THAT'S why he's in such a snit) to bail out the whole country. But, then he couldn't fund his nasty little parties could he? I am SO tired of hearing about Mr. Buffett's genius- he's a wizard allright-he's one of the one's that got us in this mess. If he's so smart....WHY pray tell didn't he see this coming??
"and HP'ers will be written about years from now, as having tried to warn the nation and the world, but failed, as the nation and the world didn't want to listen."
LOL Oh man, that cracked me up. Your delusions of grandeur have been getting worse, but this is a new peak.
Face it. Nobody cares about you. Nobody will write about you. You are fond of saying "history will not be kind"...you will not BE in history. So get over it, loser. You sold a house, made a profit, went overseas and have been unemployed and renting ever since. Somehow you think that qualifies you to comment on everything, including politics. It does not, but please keep going. There is something gratifying about watching someone fuck it up a little more every day.
You clearly lack experience in being right and wrong. Such as, you were right once and now you claim you've been right all along. Even when you are caught red-handed in a lie, you just keep going like some moron who thinks saying something over and over replaces what is in the archives. It doesn't take long to see you for what you are. The people thanking you and all that crap are the sheeple you like to skewer. Congratulations! You have people you hate on your side. Way to line it up.
HP'ers mean Schiff, Roubini, Thornberg, Paul, Roach, Rogers and a few more
People who saw it coming, shouted from the rooftops, and nobody did anything about it (until it was too late)
And doesn't this market feel like it needs one final, cleansing, swift and cataclysmic sell off?
Capitulation anyone?
1% drops every day is water torture. Let's get the big one out of the way and move on.
What a waste of a decade. Thank you Alan Greenspan.
Well did they slip the FHA thing by while we were distracted by the Armageddon? I'll try to find out more about it.
Keith - Keep in mind Buffett is one of the biggest pimps for Paulson's bailout deal.
Know why? Because he is one of the biggest beneficiaries of it. With his recent investments in Goldman and GE, plus the fact that a lot of his current holdings would benefit (insurance companies) from the bailout, he is simply acting in his own best interest at the expense of the taxpayers.
I had a lot more respect for Buffett before he joined all the fearmongers that are trying to scare Congress into passing this insane bailout - which is really a giant gift to the corrupt banksters who created this mess to begin with.
Do not trust a word Buffett says. Every word is calculated.
Kieth:
I have decided that your contribution of the blog and other assistance to many over the past several years has now balanced out with your own acts that contributed to this mess - that is, knowingly screwing over another when you knew there was a bubble. The simple fact is, you knew you were screwing someone else over, but proceeded anyway. In effect, it makes you no different than Angelo, or any of the other RE shills.
That said, in my eyes, you are now square and I will never bring it up again- unless of course you continue to assert that your acts did not contribute to the problem.
Then why did he just invest $5 billion in Goldman and $3 billion in GE?
If it were as bad as he says, wouldn't it make sense to stick to cash?
As a side note, I think the stock market, aside from some false rallies, is going nowhere for a long time.
Look at the 60's and 70's. If you put money in the market in 1960, it went nowhere for almost 20 years.
It's far more likely we're in for another decade or longer flat period in the stock market. And there's a good chance it could fall even further.
So, I don't know why everyone is so excited to get to the "bottom" of any of these markets. Once we're there, we're staying there for a long time.
I just don't see how we go from the worst global economic crisis since the Great Depression to "everything's back to normal" in such a short period. It just won't happen. We've got a long road ahead of us.
Buffett is so in the bag for the likes of MSFT, GE, Goldman, etc., anything that comes out of his mouth should be viewed as disinformation. The guy uses his stature and fame to game the markets. If he's promoting something, you can be damn sure his bets were placed months earlier and he's set to make money as the fools rush in.
Benji Franklin said...
"Newsflash: we ARE our parent's children, and the problems we're seeing have been building for DECADES, not just months. WE'RE the generation that will have to deal with this mess."
--------------------
Memo from the Boomers:
We are leaving this mess for the next generation.
-The Management
Yeah I'm pretty much sick of Warren Buffet as well. Most of us have to scratch and claw just to get out of the middle class. Maybe if any of us had started with a stockbroker Daddy and $140K in the bank at age 26 we could have become billionaires as well.
If he really gives a crap about the little people why doesn't he split his stock so they can actually buy a share of his company.
F him, he is going to lose his shirt with the money he is throwing away on GS & GE. He doesn't know everything.
Of course there was no film of the actual attack. President Roosevelt requested that the military produce a film so that the American Public would be able to grasp the magnitude of the incident.
The original film used what clips it could, usually of American Dive Bombers, etc. and the ship explosions, and shots of men shooting were all made up by the film industry, who were officially recognized by Roosevelt for producing such a good product of propaganda that people to this day actually believe it was on location filming.
Now we come to today. There is no film on hand of the graft and corruption, corporate greed, and illegal commissions on the housing industry, but someone like Michael Moore should be making a film about now regarding the mess, with a lot of re-enactments thrown in and secret meetings (ala' Oliver Stone) to educate the American public through the silver screen about how we were viciously assaulted by the traitors on Wall Street. How about it? Maybe even the President will give a filmmaker an award!
All I know is this so called Bailout is definitely a conspiracy for friends of Bush and Wall Street to insure that they don't lose anything. Look at all the pork attached to that Senate bill!!!! Adds another 100 billion and not a word is said. We deserve what we get if we let this one slide.
The senate has just added some "spice" to the "bail-out" proposal - tidbits for small business owners and tax payers - total garbage once again.
Not to mention that the initial appropriation will increase by a few more billion - what crooks.
Still, they are not addressing the core problem - overvalued housing that must (and will) crash in value, stagnant/decreasing wages, unemployment and runaway pricing on commodities and public services.
Speaking about public service:
City, state, county and federal positions will be experiencing greater losses as tax-payer's money dries up. It was a mistake to allow certain employment sectors in our economy rely on tax-payer dollars for their income - and now we're seeing why that method of payment is flawed.
Whether people like it or not, salary cuts across all job sectors would be required to fix the problems we are seeing, but our government employees are working hard to save their ass-sets in order to keep living lavishly as the rest of the economy heads south.
Fuck off Anon 6.06
Keith has been right for YEARS - I've followed it since almost day 1.
He has predicted EVERYTHING so far.
He's a genius.
I will remember HP till the day I die.
It has been a HUGE blog effort on his part.
Thank you Keith for your wisdom.
YOU ARE THE MAN of the DECADE!
Anyway kids...
We are all in for one hell of a bill from these clowns, so stop yelling at each other and start yelling at the House before they pass this Ponzi Scheme into law!
http://yourmortgageoryourlife.com/2008/10/02/buyer-beware-jpmorgan-sees-wamu-value-decline/
How bad will the crap be that we as taxpayers end with?
This is just a massive bank takeover by a small cartel led by Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan! Who is next!
Who voted against declaration of war after perl harbor? Nancy Peolsi's grandmother?
Like the typical criminals, they don't regret the crime but only getting caught.
Then why did he (Buffett) just invest $5 billion in Goldman and $3 billion in GE?
If it were as bad as he says, wouldn't it make sense to stick to cash?
Are you for real? "Stay in cash"?
IN case you don't know, Warren Buffett has almost ALL of his massive fortunes tied to the stock market, so he's hardly a non-biased observer. It goes without saying that he has a strong vested interest in making sure the markets DON'T crash! He's not above making bad comparisons to help push this Bill down the taxpayers' throats.
With his stake in GE and GS, is he throwing good money after bad to try and keep the market afloat? Time will tell, I guess...
He's made bad investments before, although with his wealth he can take multi-decade bets that things eventually WILL return to normal, and he'd be right. Most of us don't have the luxury of losing millions and still being able to retire in comfort.
Dude, this guys having a housing panic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUAEjBfqNpg
Back in July, when he declared his long-term portfolio was 100% in cash backed by T-bills, a lot of people said Todd Harrison was crazy -- or clueless.
But Harrison, CEO of Minyanville.com, is looking pretty smart these days given the ongoing turmoil in the financial markets. Just because Warren Buffett is putting money to work doesn't mean the average investor should -- unless you can get the same favorable terms "the Oracle" has gotten from recent investments in GE and Goldman Sachs.
In addition, the dollar has been on the rise lately and hit a 13-month high vs. the euro Thursday after the European Central Bank hinted it's close to dropping its inflation-focus and cutting rates.
The dollar's strength today also suggests the bailout may not pass the House, says Harrison. While debatable, that view makes sense, considering the implications of the U.S. government maybe not spending $700 billion on a bailout plus another $1.5 billion in various unfunded tax breaks and pork projects.
Dollar strength fits into the deflationary cycle Harrison sees coming down the pike: "all roads lead to deflation," he says. Still, he's not ruling out the potential for the dollar to tumble, leading to a hyper-inflationary spiral, a scenario many fear will happen if U.S. deficit spending continues to expand.
You really have to wonder how bad things are in Europe if after all the shyt we have seen the past couple weeks people still have more confidence in the Dollar than the Euro. That speaks volumes about Europe.
Here's the bailout bill
451 pages
http://banking.senate.gov/public/_files/latestversionAYO08C32_xml.pdf
enjoy
I hate our Senate.
Just a thought as I was reading today's news:
Funny how when oil drops, Wall Street drops. When oil goes up, the markets go up with it.
Just a small example of why I've always seen Wall Street as unethical and corrupt...
Here's some of the crap that's getting inserted into this debacle
Vote EVERY ONE OF THEM OUT OF OFFICE IN NOVEMBER. EVERY ONE OF THEM.
Especially note section 503.
Unreal.
TITLE V—ADDITIONAL TAX RELIEF AND OTHER TAX
PROVISIONS
Subtitle A—General Provisions
Sec. 501. $8,500 income threshold used to calculate refundable portion of child
tax credit.
Sec. 502. Provisions related to film and television productions.
Sec. 503. Exemption from excise tax for certain wooden arrows designed for
use by children.
Sec. 504. Income averaging for amounts received in connection with the Exxon
Valdez litigation.
Sec. 505. Certain farming business machinery and equipment treated as 5-year
property.
Sec. 506. Modification of penalty on understatement of taxpayer’s liability by
tax return preparer.
Subtitle B—Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and
Addiction Equity Act of 2008
Sec. 511. Short title.
Sec. 512. Mental health parity.
TITLE VI—OTHER PROVISIONS
Sec. 601. Secure rural schools and community self-determination program.
Sec. 602. Transfer to abandoned mine reclamation fund.
TITLE VII—DISASTER RELIEF
Subtitle A—Heartland and Hurricane Ike Disaster Relief
Sec. 701. Short title.
Sec. 702. Temporary tax relief for areas damaged by 2008 Midwestern severe
storms, tornados, and flooding.
Sec. 703. Reporting requirements relating to disaster relief contributions.
Sec. 704. Temporary tax-exempt bond financing and low-income housing tax relief
for areas damaged by Hurricane Ike.
Subtitle B—National Disaster Relief
Sec. 706. Losses attributable to federally declared disasters.
Sec. 707. Expensing of Qualified Disaster Expenses.
Sec. 708. Net operating losses attributable to federally declared disasters.
Sec. 709. Waiver of certain mortgage revenue bond requirements following federally
declared disasters.
Sec. 710. Special depreciation allowance for qualified disaster property.
Sec. 711. Increased expensing for qualified disaster assistance property.
Sec. 712. Coordination with Heartland disaster relief.
Woo hoo they are eating their own!!!
Guess where your 750 billion dollar bail out is going? Throw more money at them America and be sure to watch the debate tonite. It is sooooo important. Sarah P can't remember the names of her gazillion kids. Oh no, what a catastrophe.
Bank of America to Lehman: Where's Our Money?
Big investment partners claim billions of dollars just disappeared when Lehman filed for bankruptcy
http://tinyurl.com/4pf8fm
JaneZ
Does anybody else wonder if this is kind of an Internet bubble too? Flippers bought houses through the Internet - sight unseen. A piece of news comes out and the Internet is ablaze. "Money" flies in and out of accounts in seconds. A rumor is started and the gossip begins. At the speed of light. In some ways it is great that we have this way of communicating and letting everyone know what we think. But you also have to be a bit afraid. This is a powerful tool. Is the American society up to it? Will it be like this forever?
Bank of America to Lehman: Where's Our Money?
Big investment partners claim billions of dollars just disappeared when Lehman filed for bankruptcy
http://tinyurl.com/4pf8fm
JaneZ
IMHO there is no money. Just about anywhere.
Time to gather dandelion greens and pray. At least we know someone who can bag us a moose.
Keith, great summary of the crap that has been added to this bill. How can they do this with the world coming to an end? What is going on?
Call your representatives!
NO BAILOUT!
why don't you guys nuke America?
Adding pork to bills is all they know how to do, whether the end of the world is coming or not, LOL! That's how 3-page ransom notes get turned into 400-page 'bills', which then get turned into laws!
You see, our elected "representatives" have a list of 'promises' they need to keep for the big contributors to their political campaign(s), so they add these whenever they can! This is what the process of 'negotiating' on a bill is all about!
Pretty sad, eh?
As I've been saying here for more than 2 years now: As the the time for the two oilmen approaches to get the f-out of the WH, oil prices will collapse.
Are you still thinking that this high oil price ride of 8 years, since the two oilmen took over the WH, is just "an coincidence"?
Oil will be below $80 by January 2009.
SNL has to make a spoof about the cliche scenes of traders putting the hands on their faces, every time the market goes down.
If I see one more time this cliche on the corrupt mainstream media, I'll puke!
Hey guys, this is the best damn drill the president ever put on.
Funny part is, if some Rep who knows this bailout is BS and votes against it now, his opponent will run campaign ads saying how he voted against mental health, disaster relief and whatever other BS has been tacked onto the bailout bull. What a crock of shit.
First thing I do as President, 1 issue per bill. No more of this bucket of shit thrown together.
Dude, this guys having a housing panic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUAEjBfqNpg
[nsadisclaimer]
[secretservicestatement]
I am not threatening any elected official with anything but a vote against them on election day.
[/secretservicestatement]
[/nsadisclaimer]
Bob is a bit high strung, but brings up good points. Congress better hope this bailout does the trick, because I think we are on the edge of several political assassinations. And although I am not going to be the one pulling the trigger, I will be enjoying fewer criminals on the planet. These clowns absolutely refuse to listen to the will of the people, they are voting as their "owners" instruct them to. Somethings gonna give.
Palin's not looking for a fight like McCain and Obama were.
Ahh, bunch of chicken littles. The bailout bill will pass and all will be fine again. Shop till you drop baby! Do the patriotic thing. Go spend a bunch of borrowed money and all will be well again.
Go McCain/Palin!
"Federal Reserve loaned an average of $44.5B a day to banks last week," meaning the last week of September.
How long can the Fed keep doing this?
I've read it in a couple of websites now that BofA is receiving instructions on how to proceed if they shut down for a specific period of time, and that branches are/have been getting boxes of signs to post on their front doors to notify the public.... can anyone verify this? www.financialsense.com
People like Buffet know it isnt about money, but who "controls" the "system".
If you control the system then you control the wealth.
Will we have an FDR type system or will we allow the private financiers to create a new monetary and financial system.
Clearly this system put in place by Richard Nixon on August 15th, 1971 is finished.
He is fearmongering. He benefits financially from fearmongering
.
Economic Pearl Harbor???????
And the tie in is?
I have a Pearl Harbor attack.
What if we all don't make our November mortgage payment.
Wouldn't that shortfall of $150 billion+ be able to fuck over Goldman, MS, BofA, and Citi. If Goldman is deperate enough to borrow $10 billion from Buffet, then a sudden shortfall of cash should be able to break them.
I think that banks like Wells Fargo have enough depositers that it would be a wash for them.
What do you guys think?
Yeah, you guys always get screwed by your acting daddy. Prez Rosenfeld set y'all up then, and Prez Buschfeld screwed y'all now.
a stooge towing the government rap line for profit................... keep threatening my deposits and i will vote for lawchangers to restore the hangmans noose for treasoners..............
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