Bernanke basically says if we don't do the Paulson giveaway, the end of the world as we know it will come.
Dodd kisses the ring. Thinking about that sweet deal he got from Angelo Mozilo from Countrywide.
Paulson has a big sh*t eating grin on his face, knowing that Goldman Sachs is gonna make out bigtime.
More in the comments...
September 23, 2008
SPECIAL THREAD - LIVE BLOGGING THE HOUSINGPANIC SENATE HEARINGS WITH DODD, BERNANKE AND PAULSON CURRENTLY STREAMING LIVE ON CNN.COM
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126 comments:
this deal has to get done quick because the Senators are going on a months-long vacation soon...
This is fraud on the same scale as the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.
F*cking criminals should be skinned alive!!
Keith do you think they'll work in the proposal to get an ownership stake in a few of the companies?
Bernanke bragging now that he's a student of financial crises
hmmm... if that's the case, wouldn't he have read "Manias, Panics and Crashes" at least once in his lifetime?
Wouldn't or shouldn't he have seen the housing bubble and crash a million miles away?
Or are people from Harvard, MIT and Princeton book smart but reality stupid?
"Fear, for the lack of a better word, is good".
Keith,
They're not going on vacation. Even more urgent...they have to get home to campaign for the upcoming elections.
2/3 of the Senate is going on vacation.
got it?
these guys really don't know what they're doing
What makes you think Bernanke doesn't know what he's doing????
He's doing his job very, very well. His job is to fleece the ignorant American goyim, destroy the middle class, and line the pockets of his jewish brethren.
MISSION NEARLY ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!
Schumer just asked Paulson if the banks could pay instead of the taxpayer
ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha haha ha hahahahah
oh, what a hoot!
Actually, Dodd's plan protects the taxpayer much more than the Paulson plan.
Are you aware there's a move to have republicans vote against this? It's not that they oppose it on principle, they're doing it for political gain. They know it will pass without all of their votes so they want it to be primarily a democrat bill so they can say they voted against it in the campaign.
See what scum republicans are? They'd rather the country collapse than risk losing power. Vermin, lowlifes, scum.
While all these criminals are in one place, now would be a great time to serve them with writs/arrest them while being recorded on CNN.
NO BAILOUT FOR PAULSON, BERNANKE AND BUSHCO-CHENEYBURTON
ARBEIT MACHT FREI
The White House also issued a statment last night opposing any effort to control salaries of those being bailed out.
That's who republicans protect- the guys who made $35 billion in bonuses for running the economy into the ground.
cube dweller - listening at work - the scabs have been ripped from my eyes - our elected reps are dolts -or perhaps we get the govt we deserve - we are dolts and that's who we have elected.
This is going to hurt - but whoever doesn't die will either emerge stronger...
or envy those already dead.
Ron Paul's stand.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/paul.bailout/index.html
I still wish he can run for the Presidency.
I am more of a reader of this blog than a poster, but I find this article right on the money.
AlE34
Maybe it is a good time to buy.
I mean, prices are about 20% lower and it finally looks like they are just going to inflate away the debt.
Do you think anyone in that room has ever read housingpanic or any of the other bubble blogs?
Who does Paulson think he is..KODOS the Executioner from Star Trek?
This IS Housing Panic, I'm watching it unfold live on TV.
Oh wait, there's a show on about Miley Cyrus, see ya later.
BWA HA HA HA
Oh man you poor suckers. You paid your bills, you drove the 1982 Honda and you rented a shithole apartment.
And now this....
CHUMPS!!
Bernie said he would make sure the Gov. did not overpay for the "assets" and the tax payer would get a good deal.
Five minutes later he said he wanted to pay the banks future maturity value (not mark to market) for the toxic sh*t.
Do you think anyone in that room has ever read housingpanic or any of the other bubble blogs?
September 23, 2008 5:
========
Dude nobody but low level nothings read this blog. Myself included. People with power and fortunes don't waste their time on silly conspiracy blogs.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
You NEED to contact your own Senators, too.
Let your senators know how you feel - either for or against this bailout.
Paulson and Bernanke were just accused of flying by the seat of their pants
I'm not sure. Either this is a conspiracy, and this was all planned. Or Bernanke and Paulson are truly idiots.
Hmmm...
From Wall Street 24/7:
One of the aspects of the Paulson bailout bill that was not clear until today is that the Treasury has no intention of running a true action for the toxic assets on bank balance sheets. An auction would tend to set very low prices on the current value of mortgage-backed paper. Based on the few transactions which have taken place in the past, this might be as low as 30 cents on a dollar.
It has been widely assumed that banks would need to take large write-downs on the devalued assets, creating the need for them to raise more capital and further dilute shareholders.
All of those assumptions were mistaken.
In testimony today, Ben Bernanke described the plan by saying "it is designed to avoid forcing banks to sell or value their mortgage assets at a `fire-sale' price. In a harsher tone than he has ever used in testimony, Bernanke spelled out the benefits that would accrue when the government can buy these mortgage assets at close to "hold to maturity" prices instead of the "fire-sale price."
The plan puts taxpayers at a substantially greater risk than a true auction system. Buying these toxic assets inexpensively gives the Treasury a chance to profit from its risk if the paper appreciates in value over time, providing taxpayers some "upside" . The more that assets appreciate, the better the chance that the American public's long-term liability is low.
What has become clear is that Treasury plans to purchase bad assets from banks at prices very near their original value. The risk to taxpayers under this program would be tremendous. If housing prices continue to fall, so will the value of the paper the government has purchased. Under this set of circumstances the public could be at risk for underwriting the great majority of the Treasury's purchases and never having a chance to recoup their investment.
Buying troubled bank assets at above where they would be valued in a free market now and at a price which is near to the potential price when they mature is a great handout to the banks but undermines almost any chance that the Treasury will ever get any meaningful yield from the bailout.
Taxpayers lose any chance of being made whole
Vote for Obama and all will be well. I promise.
I am not sure why you are against this bailout Keith. As an Obama supporter, you should be cheering for this kind of crap. How do you balance your support for Obama while disagreeing with just about every social/economical view he holds dear???
Keith,
Thank you for running this blog. You have made the last 3 years very interesting.
Obama will pull our troops our of Iraq, conduct a rational foreign policy, not abuse the human rights of women and minorities, not allow torture, not allow illegal wiretaps, and he'll work to restore our image around the world.
Some issues are more important than housing, where he (and McCain) have been consistently wrong.
Meanwhile, the poor guy is going to have a massive fiscal mess on his hands now. His hands will be tied.
My prediction? Massive deficits ahead.
They are kicking the "pricing of the troubled assets valuation question" back and forth - here's an idea let's mark it to market?
What... that's not good enough for Paulson the Socialist (what the hell were they teaching him at Dartmouth anyway?)
Remember socialized medicine is a bad thing but socialized investment banking is a good thing (just not for you!)
Coming to America?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4810644.ece
Corporate India is in shock after a mob of sacked workers bludgeoned to death the chief executive who had dismissed them from a factory in a suburb of Delhi.
Lalit Kishore Choudhary, 47, the head of the Indian operations of Graziano Transmissioni, an Italian-headquartered manufacturer of car parts, died of severe head wounds on Monday afternoon after being attacked by scores of laid-off employees, police said.
The incident, in Greater Noida, just outside the Indian capital, followed a long-running dispute between the factory's management and workers who had demanded better pay and permanent contracts.
So 2 things - I get from this.
1. Hank and Ben are in PANIC - and haven't totally thought this through.
2. No one is talking about not doing it. Just about how and how much
Also, never thought I'd say it... but Schumer was great.
the 700 billion next to the bazooka in his pocket comment was priceless
There's no rage during this hearing. No passion.
We're toast.
There are no heroes anymore.
One of these Senators should have asked for their resignations.
One of these Senators should have demanded the apologize to the American people
One of these Senators should have asked Paulson if he had a conflict of interest
One of these Senators should have taken off his shoe and banged it on the table.
One of these Senators should have expressed the outrage of the American people.
Not a peep. Lots of mutual stroking. Lots of compliments.
It's truly sad.
Perhaps the "end of the world" for greedy bankers and wall-street crooks, but the world will go on, with or without us.
They're trying to rush this bail-out like we rushed into the war.
Speaking of the war, the monthly tax-payer cost of that is already 12bil+/month. Now, we're supposed to take on another 700bil+??
COMPLETE TYRANNY!
Just remember, a year ago Paulson/Bernanke said there was no reason to panic - now they're panicing - but for themselves only.
These crooks cannot be trusted, especially with a 700bil+ line of credit, which they'll use to overvalue bad mortgage assets in order to payoff the bankers and wallstreet crooks.
People need to realize that their tax money would be used to suppliment the life-styles of the very crooks who were largley responsible for this mess.
I love the fact that Bernanake and Paulson have to delicately sidestep why there can’t be any cap on executive compensation. The real reason is this. These diaper wearing, pacifier-sucking corporate executives have become lazy, spoiled brats who feel entitled to be highly compensated regardless of their job performance. If they don’t get what they want in terms of compensation, and without any conditions whatsoever, these spoiled brats will toss a temper tantrum and intentionally wreck their companies and the country by refusing to take the bailout....
The worse part will be when Congress finally gives up on limiting executive compensation, and all the dittoheads will claim a victory for the "conservatives" and start chanting USA, USA, USA, USA. The unlimited loyalty of the American sucker to the person fleecing him is awe-inspiring.
sec. paulson will be looking for the brightest to comprise a team of oversight who will be protecting the taxpayers. I nominate lereah, retsinas, yan, and suzanne.
now they're getting puff ball stuff ... but i think there was some rage.
also, ben's discouraging "this is our best shot"... really ate Hank. He had to jump in and say "we will make this work".
They are flying be the seat of their pants... being weighed down by the bazooka
HERE COMES BUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!
HERE WE GO - HERE'S JIM BUNNING!!!
LIVE BLOG:
bunning: housing mess has spilled over into the rest of our economy and worldwide
paulson - yup
bunning - asking why student loan garbage is gonna be in this bailout
paulson - need to free up credit
bunning - how are we putting in non-related things?
paulson - need flexibility
bunning - students loans are messing up the housing? bunning is getting short and pissy!
THERE YOU GO!!!!!!!!!!!
HERE IT COMES!
That is so true.
There is also another issue:
These bad mortgage assets are valued differently across banks, so what asset value will the government use?
The highest one of course, so the tax payer will be held accountable for more debt then should be paid for these assets.
It's a really slick scam they're about to pull off, but it will ruin this country for years and years to come.
So far as housing prices, they will continue to plummet, there is no stopping that - natural forces in the market are now in control.
This is the second stage to completely fleecing the tax-paying citizens - eliminating the middle-class.
By the way since we - the tax-payers - are the government, why aren't our employees (Bernanke and Paulson) working in our interests?
What happens to a bad employee in private industry? - They are fired.
TYRANNY NEEDS TO BE STOPPED!
From Wall Street 24/7:
One of the aspects of the Paulson bailout bill that was not clear until today is that the Treasury has no intention of running a true action for the toxic assets on bank balance sheets. An auction would tend to set very low prices on the current value of mortgage-backed paper. Based on the few transactions which have taken place in the past, this might be as low as 30 cents on a dollar.
It has been widely assumed that banks would need to take large write-downs on the devalued assets, creating the need for them to raise more capital and further dilute shareholders.
All of those assumptions were mistaken.
In testimony today, Ben Bernanke described the plan by saying "it is designed to avoid forcing banks to sell or value their mortgage assets at a `fire-sale' price. In a harsher tone than he has ever used in testimony, Bernanke spelled out the benefits that would accrue when the government can buy these mortgage assets at close to "hold to maturity" prices instead of the "fire-sale price."
The plan puts taxpayers at a substantially greater risk than a true auction system. Buying these toxic assets inexpensively gives the Treasury a chance to profit from its risk if the paper appreciates in value over time, providing taxpayers some "upside" . The more that assets appreciate, the better the chance that the American public's long-term liability is low.
What has become clear is that Treasury plans to purchase bad assets from banks at prices very near their original value. The risk to taxpayers under this program would be tremendous. If housing prices continue to fall, so will the value of the paper the government has purchased. Under this set of circumstances the public could be at risk for underwriting the great majority of the Treasury's purchases and never having a chance to recoup their investment.
Buying troubled bank assets at above where they would be valued in a free market now and at a price which is near to the potential price when they mature is a great handout to the banks but undermines almost any chance that the Treasury will ever get any meaningful yield from the bailout.
Taxpayers lose any chance of being made whole
change the word "toxic" to
fraud or fraudulent loans and I think
the public would really get the picture.....Let's bail out a fraudulent wall street company
Hmmmmm......Thanks Hank!
not abuse the human rights of women and minorities
======
WTF? Dude you have gone into Kosworld once again. Please come back.
bunning - asking how long paulson was CEO of goldman sachs.
paulson - getting uncomfy. knowing where this is going to go.
bunning - accusing paulson of taking advantage of the lack of regulations when he was ceo of goldman (and enriching himself)
bunning - asking about foreign funds and our masters in china going along with a massive issuance of a trillion in new debt - will they be suckers and lend us credit?
paulson - foreigners a-ok!
bunning - has a problem that paulson and bernanke not gonna be around in a few more months if this plan doesn't work. he's "panicked" that there's no plan b
paulson - trust me. give me the money.
bunning - (pretty lame so far folks) - what happens if 700 billion isn't enough?
bernanke - admits that he's been wrong quite a few times now, admits he doesn't know what's going to happen, says 700 billion is enormous
thanks you's all around
I quit
Bunning's not gonna do crap folks.
He's not warming up in the bullpin.
He had no fire in his belly.
They got to him.
It's over.
Bunning's not gonna do crap folks.
He's not warming up in the bullpin.
He had no fire in his belly.
They got to him.
It's over.
September 23, 2008 6:36 PM
==========
Sorry renters.
Game
Set
Match
DOPES!
The market value of CDOs (as determined by the few sales that have occured) is close to zero. The banks are carrying this crap on their books at full value. If they sell their crap at much less than full value, it's pretty much the same as filing for bankruptcy, so they won't do that. Either Paulson pays nearly full price, or no deal. Translation: the taypayer will lose trillions on this bailout. The idea that the Treasury can sell the crap in the future is just a fantasy.
Treasury chief Paulson on verge of historic new powers
Washington - In recent weeks Henry Paulson Jr. has become one of the most famous and, perhaps, consequential US Treasury secretaries since Alexander Hamilton assumed the office
Secretary Paulson is not the sole architect of the Bush administration's bailout strategy for the US economy, of course. By all accounts he is part of a troika of top policymakers with Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and New York Fed Chief Timothy Geithner.
But as the public face and dealmaker of the plan, Paulson is the one most in the spotlight. Moreover, bailout legislation submitted to Congress by the White House over the weekend would transform Paulson's office into that of temporary overseer of America's entire financial system.
I'm a home owner, but I resent statements like this targeted at those who rent - infact, there are some very wealthy renters out there who just don't want to deal with the burden of maintaining a house.
Whoever you are, you are very short-sighted, since this problem will hit your pocket book as well.
BWA HA HA HA
Oh man you poor suckers. You paid your bills, you drove the 1982 Honda and you rented a shithole apartment.
And now this....
CHUMPS!!
Stop this madness, let them fail!
u still live!
not sure we're quite done just yet...
question just came up - do you plan to have competitive bidding
paulson - no. won't work for the markets.
ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME?
Unreal.
How can I short NEW YORK real estate? It ought to tank pretty f'n soon.
Fascism is always sold as necessary for the public good!
Fuck you, all incumbents are out and vote 3rd party to send a message.
Paulson is not very convincing . Give those 2 clowns 100 billion for another 45 days for emergency measures and than work on a bill that will really work and get those stooges out of there .
I think I came to a shocking realization today
I hate American politicians. 99% of 'em.
Bunch of corrupt back slapping idiots.
There will come a day when America wants real people as its leaders, not back-slapping used car salesmen.
Congressmen who wear jeans, not blue suits, red ties and that stupid flag pin.
People who sprinkle their speech with a few well placed "f*cks".
Senators who blow up and rage against idiots like Bernanke.
Real people.
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley may be among the biggest beneficiaries of the $700 billion U.S. plan to buy assets from financial companies while many banks see limited aid, according to Bank of America Corp.
``Its benefits, in its current form, will be largely limited to investment banks and other banks that have aggressively written down the value of their holdings and have already recognized the attendant capital impairment,'' Jeffrey Rosenberg, Bank of America's head of credit strategy research, wrote in a report dated yesterday, without identifying particular banks.
Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aUj...
> question just came up - do you plan to have competitive bidding
> paulson - no. won't work for the markets.
I'm not watching the show but I bet that a close-up of Paulson's/Bernanke's trembling hands (no doubt it's happening) could help to derail the plan.
will the bailed out banks still create 10, 20, or 30 times my deposit ammounts debt dollars indistinguishable from my deposited dollars that compete at the bidding processes on housings and other things and remain uncounted in the inflation calculations by posible plan....
that's it. had enough of these clowns. heading to the pub. good new fall bitters on draft to be had.
I say NO BAIL OUT people need to be outraged. I called my senator and congress today and voiced my opnion. I am sure it will help unless everyone gets on board.
Amazing how not one Senator is able to confront Paulson that he was one of the first to apply the CDO concept at Goldman's. Goldman was smart enough to sell all that crap at peak, while shorting everyone else. Hey, but when you have your former CEO running the American Treasury, you get the ultimate insider to help on forecasting the future.
My friend in wall street says this stinks...plan a big plan
Please once in your life everyone pick up the phone contact your senators and give them hell now.
We have to act now. NO fucking bail out
Hmmm.... me thinks Keith is predicting an Obama victory. I don't know where Keith has been the last 8 years (or 40 years) but an Obama victory is not happening for a variety of reasons, from the practical to the conspiracy. I always vote 3rd party so I have no stake in the outcome. Under no circumstances will Obama be allowed the presidency. McCain wasn't the best candidate for the ruling elite but they had no other choice, the Mormon guy was simply not an option. Anyway, good luck folks on Nov 4, may the best candidate win... :-)
the crap has been attempted to be sold and it went with a 22 cents to the dollar price tag and then only with the sellers providing financing, otherwise it went for 6 cents on t6he dollar/..................
It is unbelievable there is nothing that can stop this. Wht isn't anyone demanding the CEOs return millions to help the banks? Why the frig are they off free on this one? It is very scary to know our wants are so unimportant but it is dire that we give them our money.
"Obama will pull our troops our of Iraq, conduct a rational foreign policy, not abuse the human rights of women and minorities,"
Stop the BS Keith! You're starting to sound like a left-wing looney! If you are saying that Republicans abuse the human rights of women and minorities, you are an a--hole!
the hamiliton/burr duel was about a treasury refusal to pay its debts.? what does all this bogus paper got to do with it.................... is this how congress goes about declaring a declaration of war now a days????????/ with good reason?
They are stealing us blind! It's the end of their term and they are raping us. They succeeded in suckering greedy home buyers into the market, ramping up the prices to unsustainable levels, causing a bubble, upticking mortgage payments forcing forclosures, then coming in to own it all on the backs of the taxpayers. When it is all over they'll own it and we'll pay for it. Theft, grand theft on a scale never seen before. It's time to kick them ALL out and jail as many as we can.
deposit that trillion in my bank and with the 100 trillion i will loan as leverage there will be no doubt what bad paper is..............................................crapshow tells me i just bought the world cheap.......................... ah but for my 10 percent commission or ceo wage.............
I agree with anonymous, make the weasels pay back the big bonuses they made off with.
Why is no one in these hearings asking how they came up with the 700B figure and why does the wording say "at one time"?
My feeling is they will make the Chinese paper good and this is just the beginning.
At least Bunning brought up the bias of Pauslon's Plan .
Apparently the Feds are paying 50 billion a month right now to keep
the ball of wax from feeling to much pain . Give the jerk 50 billion until they are out office and give time to draft a real bill .
Actually Senator Shelby thinks the free market system might sort this out better .
Paulson and BB has been throwing money at this situation for months now . It's finally gotten down to
they want out outright bail-out for toxic shit ,pay top dollar for it . Keep in mind that Paulson and BB are working for the Banks and investment firms .
I think this hearing proved that Paulson really didn't know what would happen if they didn't give him 700 billion ,so what was with all this panic talk with something he really didn't know the answer to .
Remember the old story about what happened in 1929. It was "buy,buy BUY" and the all of a sudden it was OMG SELL!!! But TO WHO??? The who is us.
Paulsen says it is the "housing decline" that has caused the problem. Why doesn't he include the artficial run-up created by the lying cons and speculators. Is he saying he would prefer house prices to stay artificially high?
"It is unbelievable there is nothing that can stop this. Wht isn't anyone demanding the CEOs return millions to help the banks? Why the frig are they off free on this one? It is very scary to know our wants are so unimportant but it is dire that we give them our money."
I totally agree! The CEO's are the idiots that signed off on all of these disastrous plans. Let's make them pay for it. Sell off a few of their 10 luxury homes and recoup some of their 7 fig bonuses. Bastards!
The issue is that we are going into a recessionary economy and
lenders don't lend to broke borrowers or high risk borrowers
in that type of contraction . The stock market isn't a bull market under those type of circumstance .
Paulson and BB acts like they can stop this natural correction .
It is a joke that Paulson thinks that taking the toxic waste off his banker friend balance sheets at high market value ,is going to make them than turn around and lend that easy money .
If you look at what Paulsons premise for the bail outs is that we need money for new loans so to speak . So buying toxic junk at a loss does not than make the markets willing to lend . Especially in a declining market .
Give money for direct new money loans ,screw the old money loans that are toxic waste .
Maybe you can give bridge loans so banks can write off their losses for 10 to 15 years ,rather than mark to market requirements .
We can't live off housing ,and that is the issue. We cannot live without jobs ,and that is the issue .How about 700 billion to stimulate jobs ,like doing something our Country needs . After the Great Depression ,the money that was spent on jobs produced some of the greatest advances in items our country needed at the time . Forget housing providng the equity we need .Housing has crashed and its a loss
Paulsons desire to keep firms like he worked for as big as they have been or going back to re-bounding real estate market is stupid .
Paulson keeps saying he looked at Housing as the root of the problem
so he should realize that any money put into that sector is a loser .
These Bozos started this bail out shit and now it's getting out of control . It reminds me of the realtors telling people to hold on to their property and wait for the big market rebound ,that never came ,and they lost more money.
What Paulson won't give up is the old way ,that made him rich .
Hey there renters, thought you'd like to know the latest:
"WASHINGTON (AP) -- As Congress moves on the financial bailout plan, restructuring of troubled mortgages should be part of the final package, the head of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. said Tuesday.
FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair said she hoped that changes on home loans "will be a feature of that."
Still happy you rented all these years?
Sincrely yours,
An FB that isn't so F anymore.
DOPES!!
Bush's motorcade just went past my building! You should have seen the amount of BS they do for that POS. There are snipers on our roof and everything... crazy!
Paulson's on crack! He wants to losen up the credit markets so they can lend money once again to students, people with lousy credit?
Who is going to buy this debt?!
Other countries?
Investors all over the world are now sappose to belive Sir Paulson has the midas touch and will turn straw into gold, and that the credit markets are o.k to buy back into?
The great Ponzi scheme has been exposed.
Dispicable!
Anon said:"Maybe it is a good time to buy.
I mean, prices are about 20% lower and it finally looks like they are just going to inflate away the debt."
I've been saying this for a long time, but prices are no where near where they should be. Think half off of TODAYS prices. Taxes in general will be going way up when these clowns finish this bill.
How will you like it when you buy a home, and your neighbor gets part of his mortgage forgiven? OR worse yet, every third house in your neighborhood is forclosed.
Save your money. You will be much happier than saying your a "homeowner".
The troika cynically brought this issue to congress right before congress adjourns to start campaigning. Do you think congress wants to hit the campaign trail having done squat about the crisis while the markets meanwhile start falling apart? Not if they want to come back. They have to pass some kind of a bill or they're screwed, and the troika knows it.
And our lazy congress never bothered to proactively come up with their own plan because Bernanke/Paulson told them everything was A-OK, so they're pretty much stuck with Paulson's plan. It's not hard to fool congress.
The hearings are for show, the outcome is certain. The fatcats have won again. What a surprise.
I think that it is important that only regulated Banks are part of the
Bail-out ,rather than the whole ball of wax.
I think it is important that the toxic waste is priced accordingly .One wonders why the Banks can't just sell this stuff accordingly
themselves ,but its clear they were waiting for the big bail out to be able to sell them at higher than a normal price to the great fool the taxpayer with Paulson Blank Check and broad authority .
I think it is important not to include credit card debt and all that jazz in this bail-out .
People cannot live on credit cards and fake housing equity anymore ,its is as simple as that . I can't help it if it means that we will not be in a bull market because of this . Until the Nation adjusts and gets productive again in a different direction ,it is hopeless to try to revive a dead horse as Paulson and BB are attempting with their plans .
Handing out 700 billion to the
people would create more of a stimulating effect ,than what these guys are attempting with bailing out past bad loans .
I do not accept their premise that bailing out bad paper is the answer to stimulating credit markets in making new money loans . The Banks will take their money and run .
FDIC and protected pension plans are already insured and if they want to go forward with calming the markets ,you offer insurance on those accounts if you want people to invest in them . The other risky stuff that pays more with no insurance is at the risk of the investor .
Maybe CNN will report the results of this poll, which are currently running 51% against the bailout.
Vote early, vote often:
http://money.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/42035.html
>> I'm not sure. Either this is a conspiracy, and this was all planned. Or Bernanke and Paulson are truly idiots.
Only an idiot thinks Bernanke and Paulson are idiots.
Wake up folks! All these years, hell, decades, that you've been laughing at one world government/financial collapse of the USA conspiracy theories, turns out the conspiracy IS true, and it's unfolding right in front of your eyes. And you STILL refuse to believe!
But no matter - it's too late. While you went to work, raised kids, took vacations, watched sports, bought crap for the house - you SHOULD have been raging in the streets! Serves you right - you're about to get an ass-reaming of Biblical proportion.
Did anyone see the full page cartoon ad in the NY Times today (page A17)titled, "The New Communist"? How spot on!
The two party system was supposed to keep the politicians honest. Then they realized all they needed to do was push that political party crap on the rest of us.
While we bickered about ridiculous crap they robbed us blind.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
See what scum republicans are? They'd rather the country collapse than risk losing power. Vermin, lowlifes, scum.
D00D, The Democrats are scum too. Including YOUR precious elected officials. They're all scum, and until we BELIEVE this, they will continue to divide and conquer.
This is what I think the gig is .
Paulson and the Feds have been making a great deal of bad short term loans on toxic paper for the last 12 months or so. Must be 500 billion worth . Those short term loans are about to default ,and all that is left is junk paper . This is the paper that Paulson and BB want to buy ,at the high value they lent on . Now we all knew that it was foolhardy that these jerks started making these loans
a long time ago and ongoingly .
So, if the taxpayers give them 700 billion ,they can now buy this junk that they have been extending money on for 12 months now .
This just dawned on me and I might be full of it ,but I think this is what the gig is . Why would Paulson and BB be so intent about
having total authority on the buying of the toxic waste . Think about it ,because they have already made loans on that junk and the banks won't be able to pay back those loans ,unless of course they sell assets.
Do you think there is any merits in what I think might be happening . If something does not make sense ,look to what is going on behind the curtain .
Anon said:"the crap has been attempted to be sold and it went with a 22 cents to the dollar price tag and then only with the sellers providing financing, otherwise it went for 6 cents on t6he dollar/.................."
Exactly. Thats why all these "investment" banks had level 3's so they didnt have to report worthless ASSets on their books. Hiding their toxic waste for the big taxpayer bailout. NO WAY.
These CEOs have to have accountability. Make all of them pay back their huge bonuses for the past 3 years if they want a Taxpayer bail out. And then mark to market their level 3. Why should we the taxpayer have to pay what this shit was worth back in 2005?
I can't watch the live feed, or else I'll throw something through my TV.
Do you think anyone in that room has ever read housingpanic or any of the other bubble blogs?
What's a blog???
No, I don't.
Keith said:"Do you think anyone in that room has ever read housingpanic or any of the other bubble blogs?"
Honestly, yes I have Keith. They just dont want to believe it's going down as we predicted.
They want to be right, that all they have to do, is throw money (our moneies) at the financial system.
They are wrong. Wiping credit off the books will not bring back this economy, and suggesting all it takes it just issuing new debt is just delusional.
Our leaders don't know how to fix this problem. they're all hoping and wishing these toxic loans, derivatives, MBS, CDO's, Conduits, etc will turn back into gold and everything will be fine if we throw tons of money at the problem...
I want to know how much money Paulson and Ben would pledge of their personal pensions if they're so confidant this will work?
They won't even pledge 1 cent of their own money, but have no problem pledging tons of ours.
I want a accounting on what happened to all those billion that Paulson and BB lent on all those toxic waste loans every tom ,dick and harry bank was putting up in return for short term loans from the Feds .
Could it be that all those creep banks and investment firms that got money from the Feds for the last year are defaulting and this is the paper that Paulson and BB want to buy to cover their ass for what they have lost already ?
It would be the only thing that would explain what is happening .
Call your Senator and demand accounting on what happened to that
money that was already loaned against toxic waste .
restructuring of troubled mortgages should be part of the final package
Sheila Bair is an unattractive cow to be sure, but this is a pretty vague statement. Lower interest rate?? Paying off half the balance??
Listen, we are WAY past the moral hazard issue here folks. I agree that the free market should be allowed to punish those responsible, the problem is that it has gone way past that point due to stupid management and no oversight of the wolves in the henhouse.
I think we HAVE to give them a blank check, as much as it pains me, and here is why.
1. I don't like giving the CEO's anymore compensation than $1 year, if that. They should feel the pain like everyone else. However, THEY are the ones that will be deciding whether or not to conitnue lending, and if they will sell the toxic stuff, and at what price. Lets face it, they have their millions already, they could outlast a depression a lot better then we the people could. I know, it sucks, but that is the reality of it. They have the country over a barrel.
2. The longer these idiots in Washington keep debating the issue, the worse the economy gets. It was interesting to watch the Dow as the debates were going on. As these guys are debating whether to take the patient to intensive care, the patient is bleeding out. With every tick of the Dow, whether or not you have a 401k or stock investments, that is many many jobs being eliminated. I don't know about the rest of you, but while I have saved and certainly did not live beyond my means, I still need a job.
3. If you pay too little for these assets, again, the CEO's won't sell, and they can outlast all of us. Golden parachute or not. Also, if they buy these securities too cheap, it will cause the CDO's to continue to blow up.
This is a big game of chicken between the government and the banks, and we are the collateral damage. I am of the belief that the government will blink, it is just a question of how long their grand standing for election season will last. They want to look like they did not "rubber stamp" this, but make no mistake, they also do not want to be the faces on the front page just before November that they held up the process and put a bunch of crap on it, because Paulson and Bernanke will be able to say I told you so. We know the outcome, we just don't know the timeframe. Gold, Oil and Commodities - anything that goes up with inflation, because money supply is going to increase.
It is amazing how easy it is to con Senators, I'll say that
WE MUST PASS THIS THIS WEEK OR ELSE! WE MUST GIVE HANK PAULSON COMPLETE CONTROL OVER THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA OR ELSE!
Senators: OK!
So why are they not arresting them? They are right there.
Sergant at arms...arrest those men.
The reason no one remembers the hundreds of billions of dollars of seized property from Savings & Loans listed for sale by the RTC is because it never happened.
The greatest wealth transfer in recent history happened when taxpayer money was used to liquidate S&L properties which were then “sold” to well-connected insiders in transactions immune from criminal prosecution for literally pennies on the dollar.
From
http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/schoon/2008/0923.html
The soon-to-be owned bank assets under Paulson’s plan will not be sold to the highest bidders in an open and fair auction, they will be disposed of again to pools of the wealthy and well-connected at highly discounted insider valuations. The people will pay, the rich will profit.
Fax your Senators people, better yet fax all Senators!
GT Charlie
Anon said:"Sheila Bair is an unattractive cow to be sure, but this is a pretty vague statement. Lower interest rate?? Paying off half the balance??"
Yes, it's a vague statement for a reason, so they can pile in more debt into this big black toxic hole.
I wouldnt doubt Bair wants mortgages forgiven on homeowners. But how is one to know which loans
are ligitmate vs flippers? She doesnt have a clue, she wants to bail out ALL OF THEM WITH TAXPAYER MONEY.
Keith, I got'er done and emailed a personal letter to Senator Bunning.
We all have to stand together and fight for what is right.
How about 5 cents on the dollar?
They aren't idiots, this was planned. It was on the blogs for over a year and yet these people didn't see it coming? Yeah right.
I figure I'm about 16k upside down on my house...
Just gonna mail in the keys and walk away.
So how much moral hazard is this thing going to create?
According to Switchboard.com, here's a home address for one Henry M. Paulson in Washington, DC:
Henry M Paulson
2750 32ND ST NW NW
WASHINGTON, DC 20008
Satellite image shows a big house in a very tony neighborhood.
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&tab=wl
Anon said:"Bernie said he would make sure the Gov. did not overpay for the "assets" and the tax payer would get a good deal.
Five minutes later he said he wanted to pay the banks future maturity value (not mark to market) for the toxic sh*t."
-----
Let the banks mark to market their ASSets, I mean junk themselves. If any of it was worth the paper it was printed on, all of it would have been sold off long ago.
Funny, Ben wants to give his buddies top dollar and give us the worthless paper - years from now.
Off with his head - NOW!
Anon said:"They are kicking the "pricing of the troubled assets valuation question" back and forth - here's an idea let's mark it to market?"
Exactly. Lets not waste time, and see how much its worth on the open market!
I don't get it . The banks want something from the taxpayers ,yet the banks get to call the shots on what they get . No no no . I fine this blackmail from Paulson on behalf of the banks interest pretty
absurd .
I don't get it ,it's already out of the bag how bad both sides of the houses were in de-regulation .So now what are the banks blackmailing the Politicians about ,future campaign contributions will be taken away or what ?
Keep in mind people that the big banks and the big investment firms are the lifeblood of bribes for the politicians . That systm has to be changed
Elizabeth Dole asked about the
two ton gorilla: Credit Default Swaps.
Neither Paulson nor Bernanke answered
in any useful way.
Is the 60 trillion CDS market an
issue they don't want to talk about ?
Berkshire Hathaway buys $5Billion of Goldman Preferred w/10% dividend
Thanks for that phone call, Hank!
Just getting warmed up on this.
"The unlimited loyalty of the American sucker to the person fleecing him is awe-inspiring."
Nicely put. Now it's time for another blood letting, the vampires need to feed.
I agree paritally with the bailout, it will forestall the inevitable for a for a few more month or even years. Unfortunately we're already past the point of no return.
A vet once told me that birds are the worse animals to work with. In the wild, if they show any sign of illness, they get eaten. So a bird will act hale and healthy right up to the time it drops off its perch- by that time it is usually too late to save it. The economy (and politics) is the same way. Every possible mechanism will be employed to make things look good. Anything that can be borrowed against the future to shore up problems now, will be borrowed. The end result will be that when the end comes, it will come with shocking swiftness.
The hearing was just a circus act for those TV watchers and the general public. The Blues and the Reds realize they have to jump start the economy or they both loose in the election next year. The have to fix it for the next administation no matter who wins. The Blues will posture to blame the whole mess on the Reds and the Reds will compromise and the bill will be passed. TheBlues and Reds continue to hoodwink the lemmings.
A Short Primer on Derivatives
by penguinsong
Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 02:03:51 PM PDT
Everyone is a little confused as to what exactly the government is bailing out here.
Let us say that one has a mortgage for 500 grand and the house is now worth 400 grand. The bank has lost 100 grand. The common misconception is that this whole bailout mess is happening because so many houses have lost value and the banks are losing money on the value of these houses.
But what happened is that these loans were sold, sliced and diced and turned into new securities. Puts were sold on the new securities and this is where massive losses occurred.
For example the mortgage on ten houses worth $200,000 were bundled into a security now worth 2 million bucks. One of these financial whiz bang outfits like Lehman Brothers would then sell puts on this security for let's say $10,000. This means basically if the price of the bond increased, Lehman pockets ten grand. But if the price of the security decreases to let us say 800 grand, this ten grand profit turns into a 1200 grand loss.
In a very simplified form, this is how these losses have been magnified.
"Obama will pull our troops our of Iraq"
They're already scheduled to be pulled out of Iraq in 2010.
"conduct a rational foreign policy"
Jimmy Carter style appeasement of dictators and thugs?
"not abuse the human rights of women and minorities"
Who's abusing the human rights of woman and minorities in this country?
"not allow torture"
Really? His mentors like Ayers "tortured" people by blowing them up. Oh, and the ideologies of marx tortured plenty of people.,
"not allow illegal wiretaps"
Obama voted for illegal wiretaps and the illegal extension of the illegal Patriot Act.
"he'll work to restore our image around the world."
By using his messianic powers?
Miss goldbug . Thank you for writing to the one man other than Senator Shelby that seems to object to this
Bill (course there were others )
I thought Senator Bunnings brought up some of the most important issues of Hank Paulsons bias and conflict of interest in being the mastermind of this bail-out . Hank Paulson made a good deal of his 1/2 billion dollar wealth during the Housing Boom times before he became the Treasury Sec.
Think about how greedy the banks are .
They wouldn't re-write the loans on a voluntary basis when they started to go bad .
The Banks wouldn't take care of the properties after they went into foreclosure .
They would not engage in the housing bill plan because that would mean to much of a write down .
They would not sell mark to market their assets to take care of losses .
They screamed bloody murder when their stock fell to the value they were worth .
Accounting wise banks continued to hide bad loans by deceiving accounting practice of giving mark to maturity value .
Now they want America to pay for the bad loans they made . Pretty ballsy I would say ,but it the nature of that corrupt beast . Purge, get rid of them ,let new Banks emerge . Get rid of the corrupt realtors also .
What if the 700,000,000,000 bail out does not work, and all it is is nothing more then "smoke and mirror" to suck more liquidity from the system.
Will there be another "Imposition of Wage and Price Controls" like what Richard Nixon did in August 1971 leading to Hyper-Inflation as the US Dollar free fall out of control.
Look at it this way even if U.S. Congress said yes to the $700-billion to cover the financial bailout will foreigners keep buying US debt knowing that their investment will diminish as the US Dollar get weaker.
If foreigners don't buy US debt then it wouldn't matter how much money U.S. Congress pump into the financial bailout because it is all about "CREDIT WORTHINESS."
A liquidity crisis is just that no one is willing to give you more credit because they believe that you have no potential future growth.
Why should a lender raise the limit on your credit card when you already MAX out, and you have no ability to pay what you currently owe.
If you were a lender wouldn't it be safer to lend your money to someone else that has the "CREDIT WORTHINESS"
You can not always rob Peter to pay Paul - in other words you can not always debased you currency.
Yesterday one day jump in Crude OIL price should send a strong message about what is CREDIT WORTHINESS and how it cause INFLATION.
http://www.time.com/time/
world/article/
0,8599,1841548,00.html?imw=Y
Saudi Billionaire to Wall Street: See You Later
Thanks, but no thanks.
Prince Alwaleed bin Talal
says he's not in the market for any more U.S. financial sector assets.
Alwaleed: I'm not sure it's the bottom yet. We're trying to get to the bottom. But every time someone says we're at the bottom, things get a bit worse.
Right now, there's a lot of emphasis on Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is experiencing a big boom. There's a lot of emphasis on real estate, and on companies in Saudi Arabia.
I just got back from a Newt Gingrich press conference where I had a nice back-and-forth dialogue with the former Speaker of the House about the Paulson Plan, which he totally hates. A few quotes and Gingrichian observations:
1) He called it a "stupid plan" that looks like it had been designed by autocrat Vladimir Putin. He also said it will be a "nightmare" to implement and full of corruption.
2) He said the Paulson Plan would be a "dead loser" on Election Day that will "break against anyone who votes for it." It will hurt even worse with the 2010 election once Americans see what a drag it is on the economy when implemented.
3) He recently chatted with economic historian Alan Meltzer who advocated doing nothing rather than implanting the Paulson Plan. Meltzer apparently joked to Gingrich that this was about the third time he had seen Wall Street scream "the apocalypse was nigh" only to have the economy keep right on chugging along.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/
capital-commerce/2008/09/23/
newt-gingrich-kill-the-
paulson-plan-hard.html
How can a lender make a bet or put on the price of their asset going down . If these were some of the crazy deal that Wall Street dreamed up to make money and now they don't
want to pay on some stupid down bet ,than F them .
They were trying to make real estate loan bundles into a stock they could make up or down bets on . Casino time . F them . They want the taxpayers to pay for this sort of BS ?
and to think i was satisified with penny ante grifting...................
and the question unanswered is what happened to all the money at the fed window "loaned" to the banks over the last year to "prevent" "this" problem.......
someone tell the oracle of omaha that goldman aint cheap at half what it is today and he aint got the time...................
Watching Ron Paul, right now grilling Bernanke.
I'm writing him in for Presidant of the United States of America.
Quick hurry! Buffets investment depends on passing this bill. Afterall, Paulson promised it would pass with flying colors.
Come on, whats the holdup?
"Let the banks mark to market their ASSets, I mean junk themselves. If any of it was worth the paper it was printed on, all of it would have been sold off long ago.
Funny, Ben wants to give his buddies top dollar and give us the worthless paper - years from now. "
Hey dumbass, how do you mark something to a market that does not exist? I love how you people all act like you know how the derivatives market works. That is like trying to sell or buy a stock without the NYSE or NASDAQ, and then marking IBM stock to zero because there is no market. Does that mean that IBM is now worthless because YOU can't find a buyer? That is what a formal exchange is for, liquidity in equity assets.
The real problem is that there is so much fear and so much disconnection in the marketplace currently, because of a non liquid market, and the burden of Sarbanes Oxley mark to market accounting. What everyone seems to forget is that there is a cash flow aspect to this.
The government can buy this stuff cheap, and they are buying it with the cheapest money in the world. They get to do a Warren Buffet on steroids. They will have a cash flow and profit on that cash flow EVERY MONTH. More cash flow if they modify all the mortgages to incentivse those that are facing resets to stay. So some will get a free ride. SO WHAT, sorry but I don't give two s$%ts about someone getting away with something shady if many are saved.
Now, what is happening because of ignorant "moral hazard" people like on this blog that know NOTHING of what they are spewing, is the senators in an election year to pander to YOU are larding this down with a bunch of populist crap that will cause it to be shunned by the very people that control the fate of our economy. Don't you super rightous people understand that check mate has been called, and the execs have won. Heads they win, tails they win. THEY have their millions, you don't. This investment (it is NOT a bailout) is YOUR savior, not theirs.
It is amazing to me that the populist ignorance of this nation can be rallied to destroy itself with a few sound bites, some ignorant rants from Ron Paul, and some election year pandering.
Bush screwed us all, and he should be brought to justice, as should the others responsible, but NOW is not the time for that! I am not so ignorant that I will cut my own throat just to prove a point, and it seems that most of you are.....
Stupid Stupid Stupid ideology....You all are just as guilty as Bush - Continue down the ideology path, at all cost no matter how much it hurts others.
HP has been right on with the housing problem in the first place, and the Bush administration, but is WAY OFF BASE on this boycott of the Paulson plan. You all will eat your words if this fails, believe me.
I want to know why Sir Paulson and Benanke didnt work on this issue last August when these derivatives were rejected on the open market by investors and banks had to take back some of their loans???
Wasnt this a big red flag? What where they doing for a year, praying or hoping this problem would go away? So much for "the problem is contained to subprime".
And I wasnt born yesterday.
Suddenly, over a year later, we have to bail them out, because otherwise, there's going to be a Great Depression 2. Well, I've got news for them...we're going to have a GD2 anyway, regardless if we bail these fools out or not. and all they can say
What happended to all their gains over the last 7 years? Let them cover their losses themselves. GS and ML will probably end up going under in the long run anyway, they just want that unlimited lifeline so they can suck the life out of us.
Don't listen to lies - these corrupt bankers tell us these assets (derivatives) are going to be worth something 4-5-10 years down the road and that the government MIGHT make some money on them.
How can this toxic waste be worth the same when all homes across America are losing value 25-45%?
We know those values are not coming back, I guess he wants to forget that we are in the biggest housing bust in the history of the USA.
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