I mean, it was a great day. Stocks are waaaaaaaaaay up. The feeling of crisis and panic are subsiding. Happy feelings of joy are no doubt spreading all over the world. Many of us made a lot of money.
But...
But...
Doesn't something feel dirty about all of this?
Doesn't something feel deeply, deeply wrong?
September 19, 2008
Does something feel........ well..... DIRTY..... about today?
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Wow stocks up 700 in two days! Pesky Lehman and AIG are getting smaller in the rear view mirror. Homeowners get bailed for the 10th time and so do the banks. Yipee! What could be wrong with that?
Dirty? Yes, in a perverse way, this is a last chance rally for those who stayed market long too long.
The longer term economic fallout from the housing crash is nearly upon us.
So far this market 'crash' has been mainly a market event.
But as we all know, economic implications for both the housing crash AND the market crash'fix' the gov't is attempting will be SEVERE.
This is NOT the 1987 crash redux.
This is NOT a correction in a bull market. This is a long term nasty BEAR.
Get ready for a prolonged, nasty recession. This short term relief rally won't hold.
At a near DOW 12,000 pop you can still get out with only about a 15% loss from the market peek.
ACCEPT THAT 15% FROM PEAK. GET OUT.
YOU'LL FELL LIKE An EINSTEIN IN 12 MONTHS.
So this is how it is...
You have the banks that are completely bankrupt...being bailed out by governments the world over (USA number 1) that are totally bankrupted.
You couldn`t make it up.
Wait until after the USA elections.
As soon as the election is over the income tax rate of America is going to double or possibly triple in order to pay the bill for this party according to a talking head on CNBC earlier. So rally now America, because you are going to be giving it back for years and years and years, straight out of your paychecks.
The reason this feels dirty is because the liberal, socialist, bankers of Wall Street, and the liberal, socialist Republicans of Congress are raping the severely retarded citizenry of America.
It is not nice to take advantage of retarded people.
Sure miss you Andrew.
JaneZ
I'm glad happy days are here agian, I'll tell my kids how tough our 1 month recession was for years to come. We should be good now for another 8 years.
Yes, it feels dirty. It goes against everything that free markets stand for. It's like doing that one thing you swore you would never be desperate enough to do. But Hank and Ben and their banker buddies needed the money. So they did the unthinkable.
Today's actions are the prison gang-rape scene in the gay porn that Hank and Ben's lives have become.
Those guys thought they were John Holmes and Ron Jeremy. But today shows that they're really just 2 girls, 1 cup.
Where are the leaders of either party? Bush rubber stamps Paulson's plans and Pelosi and Reid stand there with their thumbs up their ass acting like the Constitution doesn't apply when it comes to money matters.
Obama now says he's "delaying" the unveiling of his detailed economic recovery plan (LOL), and McCain in a rare note of sanity says the government has no business bailing out private entities.
Meanwhile the markets are rigged, the USD is doomed, and we're collectively on the hook for about $5 trillion worth of bad paper. This morning I wrote to all three of the bozos who claim to represent me in Congress and told them how disgusted I am with this outright treason by the executive branch. Others need to do the same.
It's not so dirty if you think about it...
Yes, Main Street (American taxpayers) are now bailing out Wall Street.
But the stupidity and apathy of Americans is what got us in this mess. We deserve what we get. Americans will accept this like sheep, so long as they can still watch American Idol.
George W. Bush mangled it once, but: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
It feels dirty and political and we will all pay in the end. I only hope Obama has the fortitude to do what's right: axe spending and hike up taxes (and get us out of the war). He won't be re-elected, but that's not what's most important.
This is a government by and for the investment class
You should feel dirty.
Your bailout-rally stock profits come to you courtesy of the US taxpayer.
The free market was suspended by the government yesterday. It warms the market until they realize that it was warm pee in the pants. Government can delay, but can't repair. The expected losses today will come later, it's a selling opportunity. I got rid of stocks today.
Even a dying junky will "wake up" if injected with one last shot of juice...
"Capital must protect itself in every possible manner by combination and legislation. Debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages must be foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile and more easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of government, applied by a central power of wealth under control of leading financiers. This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of Capital to govern the world. By dividing the voters through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished."...
USA Banker's Magazine, August 25 1924
Yup, it's dirty, Keefer. Did you hear Bernanke taking about the dire straits that we're in? Did you hear Paulson crying the blues? I wonder what happened to their description of this being just a "rough patch" and being "contained". It just goes to show that you/your blog had it right from the beginning. You nailed these criminals and their slimebag ways, and they had to admit it. This should be one more reason to keep this blog going.
This has just begun. If people think that the "bottom is in" (CNBC cheerleaders),then they're the ones who's going to take a haircut on this.
I just wanted to add that - this economy is "toast". Watch out inflation; here we come!! With all this borrowing, we are just transferring the problems onto our kids, grandkids and on down the line.
Hey, don’t think peeps in my area even watch the news.
Here in the Mid Hudson Valley NY the crowd is still in full denial mode.
1)in general about half the area houses are up for sale and the prices haven’t really begun to drop, been attempting to contact banks for homes in foreclosure to no avail. (have called banks that pay the local taxes on homes they repo’d months ago and no one at the bank knows how to attain any information about them, they do offer me credit cards or refi if I would be interested)
2)Spoke to the local building inspector this morning, and asked how things are going given all the bad news about housing and he tells me they’re very busy and matter of fact, one the bigger local builders here just started building a new road and many of the foundation have been poured.
So, I am wondering is it the same were some of you live?
Wow, I was starting to worry about my year end bonus.
Now I'm feeling a-ok knowing us taxpayers will be stuffing my pockets to the brim this December. Time to break out the blow suckers.
The Banks are getting BIGGER. Think of Bank of America in 10 years after eating up CountryWide and Merril Lynch. ONE BIG BANK. A MONSTER BANK.
Lube up Americans! Major a$$ reaming is in your future.
It feels dirty and political and we will all pay in the end. I only hope Obama has the fortitude to do what's right: axe spending and hike up taxes (and get us out of the war). He won't be re-elected, but that's not what's most important.
-------------------------------
ha ha ha ha, that is funny. Fortitude....... stop, you're killing me..... Axe spending...... oh man.
Hike taxes, that he will do but only for those evil rich people. You know, the ones making more than 100k per year. For the rest he will give more tax rebates to spur consumer spending.
The Second Great Depression is here. PROOF:
My company is no longer providing free snacks and just installed a pay-for vending machine in our office.
The humanity!!!
Yes. Way dirtier than when I closed 100% of my SKF position at $150.00 yesterday - and that was a dirty feeling.
Im scared I may not be able to afford a home.
"The Democratic presidential candidate praised efforts by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke to rescue endangered financial firms and keep credit markets solvent and said "even bolder and more decisive action" was necessary."
Here is your boy Keith. Your number one Obama. Does this not go against everything you have talked about for years?
We are still doomed!!
The mother of all bailouts has been priced in to the stock market. The banks and Fed are completely out of bullets. Expect a *huge* crash soon when folks realize that absolutely nothing else can be done to shore up the market.
Tell everybody you know who's having problems with mortgage payments, credit card debt, auto loans, (whatever) to just screw it and stop making payments. If the rich pigs on Wall Street can walk away from their debts, why shouldn't everybody else?
You people need to look up the true meaning of the word "socialism", which is largely about public ownership of the means of production. How does the AIG bridge loan qualify?
Clearly the debacle we are witnessing is a failure of unregulated trading, a failure of the free market, a failure of capitalism. Conservative Republicans and weak-kneed Dems: FAIL.
Had I been consulted, I would have applied our precious tax dollars to universal health coverage, schools of equal high quality in all 50 states, and what the hey - FREE HOUSES FOR EVERYONE.
Instead we got a trillion dollar war over obsolete oil and the preservation of Golden Parachutes for faceless Wall Street barons. Well, fuuuuuuu*k you too!
Senator Dodd on MSNBC describing the meeting with Bernanke/Paulson last night (bits and pieces transcribed an another forum:
"Dodd is saying along the lines of..i'm paraphrasing here "I've never been in a meeting like that one", "the predictions made by our financial leaders was horrible", "the entire room went silent and everyone knew this was about our country not about politics and everyone is working together", "it was clear to all we had days, not weeks or months to act, we had to act now".
DODD: "There was a moment when the oxygen left the room. Everyone held their breath because these men don't engage in hyperbole...there was no press...no one trying to score points politically. It took the breath away of everyone in the room."
Main thing he said was afterwards, when everyone could breathe again, they all agreed to put aside their political differences because the future of the nation was at stake. This is a paraphrase. His terms were a little more dire.
HARDBALL HOST: Where are we going to get the money for this?
DODD: There will be debt [to the taxpayers] but whatever the cost it will pale in comparison to this [the alternative scenario that Bernanke and Paulson laid out.] So I'm not sure by the end of the day we have much of a choice as angry as we may be about why we are here. And I have some strong views about why we are here but I'll save that for another day."
Dodd basically said Paulson and Bernanke told them if they didn't get the bailout it would be a complete economic meltdown. Jobs, Pension Funds, Insurance, everything.
I get it now...Our government is ROBIN HOOD in reverse.
I told a colleague at work that as stressed as I was at work today, I came in even more stressed and angry when I heard about this bailout. I really don't know what to think anymore. Less than 18 months ago, Bernanke was saying that subprime was likely contained, and now, this is the result. I hedged my position in financial stocks back in June by buying the Ultrashort funds for financials and real estate, which I was able to do in my IRA. For those who were more aggressive than me, they got hosed yesterday and today because they were simply doing what the market was telling them they should do, and then the government pulled a $1 trillion rabbit out of a hat and said "Screw you!" to those people.
Look, I really don't want the economy to melt down, but I want some freaking accountability, and I know we're not going to see it. I doubt that Wall Street and the investment bankers with their fat bogus checks for pushing this crap are not going to have to pay a dime for this. I only have this one comforting thought....a lot of investment bankers are losing their jobs anyway, and most mortgage brokers are toast, and many realtors are toast....but unfortunately the taxpayer is toast as well.
Is is better to be honest with ourselves and let the market crash ?
Experience 10 years of a great depression ? or worse, let another country invade us ?
or to do this plan ?
I would rather get a 20k tax bill for this bailout than lose my livelyhood and live in a depression for the next 10 years
This time Bush will win and go down in history as a great president
That was a great move on his part
and yes if 10MM of us got a bill for 20k each I know we could pay it and that would fix the problem.
But the other problem is that we still have the RE market that has yet to crash
I still say a 90% correction is due
Anon said:"Had I been consulted, I would have applied our precious tax dollars to universal health coverage, schools of equal high quality in all 50 states, and what the hey - FREE HOUSES FOR EVERYONE."
I imagine the government will give free homes (forgive mortgages)...to the fools who bought during the boom and can't make their mortgage payments any longer.
From New Jersey
The houses have not dropped at all in prices...
People are shopping...
Happy no clue.....
Aren't concern because they live in their McMansions and still driving Hummers and range rovers...
I asked my aunt who lives in 3 McMansions....who was she planning on voting for? She said she is not sure but looking at a canidate who has her families best interest..She said Obama is good for me and my family we are making about 100,000a year for a family of 4, I guess we would be considered low income families...
That is the truth of what is happening here in burbs..
Oh lord....
lol very funny but true
Steal from the poor to give to the Rich...
A reverse of Robin Hood...
Great comment...
The Pentagon thinks it a pretty nifty solution as well.
"..."The guiding principle is to laugh for no reason. And that's one of the reasons it works so well for military families,"..."
Bank Dick: I also called my two senators and congressman and told each office that the Congress was nothing more than an organized crime syndicate and that hank paulson made hugo chavez laugh all day long.
The government inside the beltway simply is not the American Government as defined by our Constitution.
In fact, I asked a staffer in one senator's office if she knew what the Federal Constitution was. She seemed dumb-founded by the question and asked me why I was asking the question. So I told her what the Feds were doing was illegal under the Constitution. I then kept asking her whether she knew what it was; I never got an answer...just stammering. This is DC for you: Federal employees in Congress can't even answer a simple question about the law that govern's their actions.
It's time we pick up pitchforks and torches and descend on the Capitol building.
Debbie does Dallas is "tapped out" just like our economy.
"Dodd basically said Paulson and Bernanke told them if they didn't get the bailout it would be a complete economic meltdown."
Just because these assholes throw a temper tantrum doesn't mean we should give in to their demands. It was an excellent chance to rid ourselves from the parasites on Wall Street. Let them crash and burn in hell.
Do you think other coutries are still willing to finance our debt? How about our trade deficit? How secure are T-bills? Will they be paid back with dollars fresh of the printing press? Who will finance our consumer driven economy if the consumer is broke? Where will we find the next bubble to keep the scheme going? Where do they come up with half a trillion dollars in a hurry? Will this bailout save the economy? How long will it delay the day of reckoning? Should I buy gold, stocks, T-bills, Euros or invest in fairy dust? Will the market continue to rally or are we in for a gigantic bust? Should I stock up on canned goods and ammo? What will government confiscate next? IRA & 401K accounts, gold, safety deposit boxes? Where does it stop? Why do our politicians hate us so much? Why does the retarded American public continue to vote for them?
Heaven help us!
saw a place in the hudson valley for sale last week at about one tenth the "going" price and thought to buy in in order to cut the taxes that forced me out of my old home land there..........could have bought it cash and prevented the banks from printing 10, or 20 or more debt dollars indistinguishable from my one dollar deposit to compete at the bidding process with my one dollar
if the banks failed would they have stopped printing up ten or 20 plus debt dollars for every dollar of a deposit that compete at the bidding processes in house buying and are held by morons who know not the value of a dollar nor of their own time and includes 80 percent of ther population? that the politicians think are morons, now morons and slaves? vote for more of the same......
Anon 11:08:
"You people need to look up the true meaning of the word 'socialism,' which is largely about public ownership of the means of production. How does the AIG bridge loan qualify? "
The government is taking an 80% ownership interest in AIG in exchange for that loan! That's seizure of means of production without due process, a mark of socialism
BTW, "public ownership of the means of production" is propaganda speech for: a few government officials having de facto control and deriving ownership benefit while the public is forced at the gun point to absorb losses . . . exactly the situation we have today! The soviet citizens did not actually own jack squat because as an owner you should be able to sell your share whereas the soviet citizen couldn't sell any ownership interest. . . just like you and I do not own jack squat of AIG or FNM or FRE, but only drafted into paying for their losses, while the few government officials get the ownership benfit of giving sweetheart loans to themselves and their friends.
The govbermint is giving everyone a false sense of security with pulling a rabbit out of their hat on friday.
If you believe they fixed the problem, then you also believe all toxic mortgages were "contained".
In 1929 the stock market had wild fluxuations like what's happening now.
Debbie,
Its not going to cost you just 20k for this bail out . After you ad the interest it will be more like 120k per head in America, The inflation will cost you a good 250k in lack of buying power for about 20 years ,meaning you get less . It will cost you in that the rich will get richer
but you will eat it . It will cost you in other taxes . It will cost you in having the inability to get
ahead in life . You will be forced into the investments the scheme makers force you into to .
If other option are taken ,other than the Paulson Plan ,you will get less damage .
You should be pissed off that these clowns are trying to pull this off . You should be mad that they tried to scare you ,so they could get a corrupt bill passed quickly without review . You should be mad that you have a Wall Street guy who made Billions being a trader of dollars protecting his friend when they deserve to go down hard . So what if other smaller companies will pick up the slack of the big investment firms downfalls.
The fact that investors that bought CDO's will lose money is no big deal because they were suppose to read their paperwork that there was risk . If those investors think they were screwed by the corrupt Wall Street ,than let them sue these corrupt firms . Try getting blood out of a rock ,so they will Counter-sue the corrupt CEO's and market maker fakers . So the corrupt rich bastards that did this will get lynched , than true Justice will/ might win out . Justice is a good thing ,not a bad thing . If the lawsuits bankrupt one of these corrupt firms (that were the ones that bought out their politicians ) than so be it .
They are trying to save corrupt companies that are very liable to lawsuit for the foul deeds they did .
Let the foreclosed on liar loan borrowers go back to renting until they can really afford a house ,if ever ,verses letting them try to re-spike housing prices . Let it go back to prudent underwriting . Not passing this Bill will be your protection for
maybe being able to clean up this mess . Passing this Bill will indeed cause a USA downfall .
The only chance we have to bring American back ,is to not pass this bill . Do you understand me . In not saying that some more prudent cash injection won't be warranted
from the Feds along the way to get through this ,but this Bill is the work of a mad-hatter KING who thinks he knows who the winners and losers should be . If you as a citizen ,want to be the whipping boy of the rich fat cats of Wall Street ,when they should by all rights be put in jail for what they did ,than go ahead ,be a whipping girl ,
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