July 16, 2008

HousingPANIC Stupid Question of the Day


Do you feel like you're getting a good ROI on your tax dollars?

(considering they're going toward bailing our corrupt bankers and mortgage fraudsters, in addition to a stupid war in Iraq and interest on the stupid debt, instead of education, health care, job creation, infrastructure, science and you know, things that would make America a better place to live)

50 comments:

keith said...

You spend 25% or more of your work week slaving away so you can pay the Federal Government.

What are you getting for that investment?

And do you think the people in charge are spending that money wisely?

We need a revolution. The current system is broken. The current leaders are corrupt. And we're all paying the price.

NAKED HP SHORTSELLER said...

I HEAR THE SEC'S LOOKING FOR YOU YOU BOYS...

GIGGLE...

DOPES!!!

thomas jefferson said...

I quit paying taxes in '04.
No mo' moneeez fo da hos in New Rome.

Anonymous said...

As a single person who pays 40K in federal taxes, other than infrastructure and security (I could probably pay someone to be a bodyguard for that amount and get better security), I really get nothing in return.

alaxander gram bell said...

RE: "I quit paying taxes in '04."

*********************************

Everybody pays taxes. Even if your deliquent on your income taxes, or even decided to never pay them again, if your a consumer, you pay taxes.

Like cell phone bill taxes, cable bill taxes, satelite dish taxes, electric bill taxes, internet access taxes, hotel taxes, heating oil taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, alcohol and tobacco taxes, toll road taxes, property taxes, driver's licence and licence plate taxes, etc, etc.

Yet I for one believe that a national sales tax would benefit our nation, then eliminate income taxes. This would generate big tax dollars and help small businesses and contractors grow their business. Although this would ONLY be good if the US government was not a dry-drunk criminal regime - as it is today.

Hey, we need new roads, we need police and firemen, we need schools, etc, but it all comes down to leadership and management, which we have NONE.

I think Gates and Buffet should be President and vice-president, placed in power by a special USA EMERGENCY LEADERSHIP ACT. We need smart business men with a compassion for America's SUCCESS. (Not a group of oil and military industrial criminals.)

You can now see what massive damage and lies they have done.

Funny how they dont get arrested.

Never forget: Hitler was a christian and was loved by many.

Beware Americans..... Beware...

bitterrenter said...

Are the brainstems now expecting their government to do something for them?

Too bad they voted for republicans to starve and destroy the government!

The 40K in taxes brainstem cracks me up. Of course you don't think you get anything for your supposed 40K in taxes. You're a spoiled brainstem who hasn't a clue what it costs to run and maintain a first rate, modern society full of conveniences. Here, try this. Move to any other country and see if you'll get more for your money and get to pay less to live there.

Good Luck, Brainstem!

Anonymous said...

Government jobs are growing at the fastest pace ever. They are creating more jobs than the private sector. Isn't that what you want?

The US spends twice as much per student than "advanced" countries like Finland and Norway. Apparently you have been brainwashed into thinking that shoveling money at problems will make them go away.

The US is still tops in biotechnology, medicine, computers, engineering and space travel. Which companies can compete with Cisco, Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Google? Who can compete with Genentech, 3M and GE when it comes to research? Only the Russians can compete in space travel. No other countries have sent people into space in their own shuttles or rockets.

Anonymous said...

"...New Rome..."

I like it!

Just needs a (cash)wheelbarrow logo.

Anonymous said...

But we get American Idol, Diabetes, and obesity what more do you want?

Anonymous said...

bitter idiot is obviously a worthless government bureaucrap or welfare slag who depends on real workers to pay taxes in order for him to get his paycheck. to bitter idiot and other miscreant leeches like it, a tax increase means job security and a raise. they are parasites sucking the life out of the host just like the goons on wall street

devestment said...

I like to look at government action and tax dollars in a more realistic sense.

For me the cause and effect is two fold. The main purpose for taxes is to control the workforce and increase productivity. You see, taxes keep most people from getting ahead keeping them in voluntary slavery just to survive.

Secondly, taxes fuel inefficiently placed government intervention and complacency in markets which causes bubbles and deep extraction of wealth. This also keeps most people in voluntary slavery.

We are now seeing wealth extraction play out in the banking crisis and housing wealth implosion. Many people will need to return to work, such as retired people who had more than $250K in an Indy Mac IRA.

On the upside, this creates opportunity for insiders to make fantastic investments.

Nope Keith, I view tax dollars as a form of Mafia pay off. If you pay you get to live, if you don’t you get whacked.

As for investment...

Hey Guido, dis man don’t want to pay his taxes, bring him an “investment”.

The solution is simple. Give all HP’ers government jobs so they stop complaining and start enjoying the good life of prosperity, security, and rest.

f250 said...

As much as it pains me to say this, I would rather see the nadless wonders get a tax credit on their Prissys, er I mean Prius's rather than have it go to the banksters.

Mark said...

And Obama wants to GREATLY increase your taxes...

How about cutting spending?

Anonymous said...

Noodles-

Some people here confuse the US with a 1st world country and sadly we're not...Huge sections of this country are second world and even a few third world area are here...Towns that are crumbling as we speak.

Some talk about how if you don't like it leave...How does just accepting crap make things better?

As for me trying to make a difference but I know it's useless...So I'm planning to move out of country...Mom has given me land elsewhere down south.

I want my country to do well but Americans are blind and don't care...therefore they deserve whatever they have coming.

As for me give me a clean town with streets of cobblestone, a cute little hacienda home, an evening walk to the cafe to discuss politics, play chess while drinking strong yucatan coffee with friends than live in a "dog eat dog" fake society that is lobotomizing itself into extinction..."New Rome indeed"

Alas my great country has been ruined in less than 100 years by evil powerful men

Anonymous said...

I would say the illegals crossing the border see a better return than I do.

And to any of you who don't live on the US/ Mexico border as I do who don't understand my above statement, I am placing my own system into place. I am getting ready to bus hundred of illigals to New Hampshire so they can litter the streets, disobey laws, creater lines out the door of the welfare office, pack emergency rooms for a paper cut. Don't worry New Hampshire. We will all listen to your new found problems. As your state dumos money into the system for assitance to the new memebers of your community.

You will see how expensive it is. Trust me!! Oh and by the way. If your child is two he/she better know spanish by the time they are twenty if they want a job. Soon your communites will have all kinds of diversified programs in place to assure that no one is left behind, yet all of your tax dollars will go to special programs for the minorities I am sending you way.

If you think I am rambling I invite you to southern California to experiance it yourself. I can show you exactly how my tax dollars are being spent. It sure as hell isn't for better roads, libraries, public recreation facilities, police who are worth a shit, etc.

Anonymous said...

indymac being investigated by the fbi for fraud..

cnbc..12:59 mdt

Anonymous said...

I wonder when Bernanke will start building Nemi Ships with taxpayer money, so he can sail with the crooks from Wall Street in a big orgy.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

F*CK NO!!!!

For all that money I get to pay the salaries of FTC and IRS employees who waste hundreds of hours of my time every year staying in "compliance."

They should be paying ME to do that crap.

Small business creates most of the jobs in America and fuels most of the economic growth and they slap us with all this bullsh*t while corporate America forks over their big donations and can go scot-free.

Mark in San Diego said...

Well, at least we get the FBI which just announced they are investigating IndyMac (a few years too late, but better late than never). . .and of course "corporate welfare and bailouts" - where would we be without those?

gwk said...

FBI opening a criminal investigation of old Indy Mac better get Zimbilist Jr. back on the show before the next commercial break.

Anonymous said...

Bitter renter:

You're a douche.

What is the basic role of government?

How much does it cost to run a first rate society full of modern conveniences?

What are the conveniences you speak of?

Are the conveniences necessities?

Should members of a modern society be able to choose and pay for the conveniences they desire?

Is it equitable to force one member of society to pay for the conveniences of another when the first member does not utilize and will never obtain the benefit of such conveniences?

Should able bodied noncontributors obtain the benefits of society?

Are you sure that I am the one without the brain?

And, as for your spoiled comment, have you ever served in a combat unit during war?

Have you ever slept in a body bag?

Have you ever taken a shit in the middle of a desert and then wiped your ass all while having a face to face conversation with another?

Have you ever been led into an actual minefield because of the stupidity of your so-called leader?

Did you put yourself through college and graduate school by taking on loans and working shit jobs such as dishwasher, busboy, janitor and/or cement laborer?

I didn't think so.

And, how do I know this?

You see, I know this because when I was the one sacrificing and working my ass off, you were were all bent over trying to suck that pussy between your legs.

Happy Homedebtor said...

Devestment said...(alot of silly things)

Re wealth extraction: Ummm...last I checked, no market has reached or will reach most likely, a point where housing values are below where they would have traditionally been (Inflation +/- 1%). Unless you count real (not "core") inflation, at which point God only knows since that # means housing was about right at the height of the bubble, which would blow holes in all HP theories/beliefs.

Re 250K+ in an IndyMac IRA:

Since you can still to this day contribute a max of $5K to an IRA (barring catchup if you're old), that's a very small %age of people. Yes, you can rollover a 401k/etc, but still - incredibly fraction of 1%, and then do the math with the # of people who did that who would have had one in IndyMac specifically. Yes, those poor, unfortunate, 1-3 people who were too stupid to pay attention to maximums...

Re Government jobs: Well...I can't argue here. :)

I finish the MS in less than a month - best investment you can make after a Bachelor's. :D And that's never changed over time, it's held true as long as anyone can track - so keep guessing where to stick your money, I stuck my company's into the safest bet on earth: myself. :)

Beyond that, as soon as the owner moves into that house around the corner, I can confirm whether or not our prop values have bottomed/stabilized in our neighborhood. Fundamentals ftw: good schools, good infrastructure, low crime, reasonably-sized houses, great location. :)

dopes said...

Hey HP basement dwellers, just today:

Wells Fargo up 32%
WaMu up 26%
BAC up 19%
Freddie Mac up 35%
Fannie Mae up 33%

Some crash huh?

D-O-P-E-S!

Anonymous said...

"considering they're going toward bailing our corrupt bankers and mortgage fraudsters, in addition to a stupid war in Iraq and interest on the stupid debt, instead of education, health care, job creation, infrastructure, science and you know, things that would make America a better place to live"

Somebody should tell the Right Wing Shout Chorus, err, "Liberal Media" that we need more propaganda, and we need it now!!!

Anonymous said...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/16/fbi.indymac/index.html

Maybe when the FBI nails Indymac's CEO to the wall they might make up for the poor ROI so far. We shall see!!

US in Decline said...

"The US is still tops in biotechnology, medicine, computers, engineering and space travel. Which companies can compete with Cisco, Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Google? Who can compete with Genentech, 3M and GE when it comes to research? Only the Russians can compete in space travel. No other countries have sent people into space in their own shuttles or rockets."

Agreed, however look at the employees of these companies. They are increasing having to recruit from outside the US, as our youth is either no longer pursuing these as careers, or do not have the education to even fulfill the duties.

Is it any wonder? Look at who our kids have to look up to now. A kid turns on the TV and they learn one thing - be a rapper, drug dealer, thug, gangsta', or play sports, or recently defraud stockholders and homeowners and you drive a Bentley. Become a scientist, engineer, teacher, professor, software engineer and you go broke, end up unemployed, underfunded, pushed around by snotty parents that don't have a clue, or work at Wal Mart hawking cheap Chinese crap.

Face it folks, until there is an INCENTIVE to even be smart in the US, we are going to continue to decline. Why should a kid go to 8 years of College to become an Engineer, only to get out, have a massive amount of crushing student loan debt, have to compete against a million others that are less qualified from India, and then have to work at Wal Mart until they are lucky enough to try and get an internship making a tenth of what the mortgage broker (used to) or the banker who barely has a high school diploma and is not in debt.

Until this Countries priorities move away from instant gratification, and American Idol, we are in big trouble.

Anonymous said...

The 40K in taxes brainstem cracks me up. Of course you don't think you get anything for your supposed 40K in taxes. You're a spoiled brainstem who hasn't a clue what it costs to run and maintain a first rate, modern society full of conveniences. Here, try this. Move to any other country and see if you'll get more for your money and get to pay less to live there.

My money and I have moved to new zealand. I don't pay less taxes but I get a LOT more for my money.

Anonymous said...

It's about "things that create GDP". Houses (or 'Homes' if you prefer) don't.

Off2Texas said...

Do you feel like you're getting a good ROI on your tax dollars?

HA HA HA HA HA HA Ohhhhh.... I can't stand it please stop....you're killing me Keith
HA HA HA HA HA HA

Boy I needed that....thx

k.w. - Southern Ca. said...

The current situation with Fanny Mae and Freedy Mac answers the question as to whether people feel they're getting a decent return on their "forced" investment of tax dollars.

People have to realize what this "bail-out" really means - profits stay privatized with the government, but the on-going expenses will be pushed onto the tax payer.

This guy is a bit of a speed-talker/salesman, but his information is pretty much accurate - especially the coming bomb we will see with "Alt-A" and "Prime" mortgage - many of those (jumbo loans) exist right here along the coast in Southern Ca:
http://tinyurl.com/5adtyo

A "bail-out" supported by tax-payers will only make this problem much, much worse down the line.

k.w. - Southern Ca. said...

Well Keith, we're not all paying the price - just the little "worker bees" who have to keep our economy functioning - which includes most of us.

It's the few 20-30 families who really are running the show here now, which is so evident now by the means the government is using to "solve" our financial crisis.


You spend 25% or more of your work week slaving away so you can pay the Federal Government.

What are you getting for that investment?

And do you think the people in charge are spending that money wisely?

We need a revolution. The current system is broken. The current leaders are corrupt. And we're all paying the price.

AmazingRuss said...

I think it's a pretty good investment. If you don't pay, you get locked up and raped repeatedly.

I'd pay a lot to avoid that. Absolute government control of my person and sexual torture are not my cup of tea.

Anonymous said...

ROI????

I don't consider the taxes I pay to be an investment.

THEY ARE A CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTION TO RICH INSIDERS. (And a bit of it goes to the poorest, most helpless, unluckiest, and sickest sadsacks.)

What bothers me is, the Republicans raise my taxes SO MUCH in the last few years:

They made smoking and obesity Medicare-covered diseases, which is basically a tax increase on healthy non-smokers.

They "fixed" the marriage "penalty", which is basically a tax increase on single people.

They ran up a huge debt on the war and other "toys" for their friends, which is a huge tax on people who save instead of spend, and people who are against the war and aren't in a position to profit from it.

went2puke said...

It's an uphill struggle folks...

TO THE STUPID, bird-brained idiots like "dopes" who, like an ape, gleefully said:

"Freddie Mac up 35%
Fannie Mae up 33%"

I say this: In just two weeks, Fannie and Freddie stocks lost around $12 each: Fannie tumbled from approx. 19 to $7 and Freddie from 16 to $5.

If you can handle some math and you have some leftover grey matter inside that scull, think of this:

If Fannie and Freddie went up 35% today, it means that they have recovered between $2 and $2.5 from the original loss of $12.

I see nothing there to jump up&down about!... u idiot!!

PRIDE said...

HHD
The real lesson is coming. It has nothing to do with this blog you find pleasure disagreeing with, and everything to do with “The School of Hard Knocks”. No one is exempt and everyone learns humility on its steps. I admire your investment in education for even if you don’t find employment, you will find enjoyment in knowledge. By your degree completion and lack of humility I assume that you are in your twenties and still high on your seeming indestructibility.Life will wake you up soon and dry the afterbirth from behind your ears.Please don’t misdirect your anger at us, direct it at those who will betray you and your instinct.

SeattleMoose said...

Is this a trick question?

silly devestment said...

no market has reached or will reach most likely, a point where housing values are below where they would have traditionally been (Inflation +/- 1%).

When I use your formula the prices currently being asked for properties here in California will not be in line with historic norms until 2020.

Anonymous said...

As for me give me a clean town with streets of cobblestone, a cute little hacienda home, an evening walk to the cafe to discuss politics, play chess while drinking strong yucatan coffee with friends than live in a "dog eat dog" fake society that is lobotomizing itself into extinction..."New Rome indeed"


You might want to visit your South of the border nirvana before moving there. I can tell you have not not lived down there. I can also tell you don't have the moneys for privite security. You are a fool.

Reality said...

Bitterrenter,

"You're a spoiled brainstem who hasn't a clue what it costs to run and maintain a first rate, modern society full of conveniences."

Like what? Utility pipes that are so neglected that they are spontaneously blowing up?

One of those conveniences that you mentioned was the "rural electrification" . . . well, guess what, the rural areas where electricity made sense was already electrified, using wind mills, water power and stand-alone generators. What was actually done was a taxpayer funded for-profit program to let the big utilities to extend their monopolistic grids into areas where independent generation existed, and took them down because the taxpayers were funding the capital cost of the grid. It was the Gridification of America! so all those grids could run on fossil fuel. Of course, 70 years later, we are looking tax funding again to turn part of that grid into wind mills, solar generation, etc. etc. Such is your tax money at work.

BitterIdiot, what makes you think resources/money/capital coerced away from individuals and local communities would find better use after it winds through the labrith in DC?

If you actually believe a monopolistic provider of services is good, since food is obviously quite important to you, why don't you give me all your money, and let me decide what you get to eat. Then perhaps you can be greatful for my giving you two slices of modern white bread with a sliver of first rate hydrogenated peanut butter tucked in between every day . . . instead of using your brain and consider what you could have gotten with your own money in the free market place, such as a real dinner entre!

Anonymous said...

This is intentional Republican sabotage.

They screw up the diverse functioning of modern government in so many ways in order to convince people that government doesn't work. It just isn't true. Government can work OK in some areas, but it takes intelligence and effort. In fact, Al Gore had one of the worst jobs possible in trying to do this, and it was partially successful.

Today, actual functioning of government is only modestly above Phillipines and declining to Haiti level, far far below former US competence and current German/French competence.

Reagan 1976: Government should be restrained.

Republicans 2000-present: Government should be looted.

angry physicist said...

Which companies can compete with Cisco, Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Google?

Huawei, NTT, Samsung, Alcatel, Tata, world Linux community. OK, we're still winning with Google.

Who can compete with Genentech, 3M and GE when it comes to research?

Novartis, Aventis, Glaxo, Merck KGaa, BASF, Rohm, ABB, Emerson, Siemens, Toyota.

Nearly all Bell labs reserach has been destroyed, same with 3M and GE. US companies do almost no research now.

Alcatel owns Lucent. BASF is world's largest chemical company. Siemens is enormous industrial everything, and doing well. (Germany has a huge trade surplus in high-tech manufactured products).

Anonymous said...

good ROI?
No. Not good. No return at all.

Anonymous said...

no, thats why i don't pay any(deductions, deductions, deductions)

i live in a sales tax free state but of course i pay my property taxes. and everytime the city coffers are gettin low, they hit up us parents "we need more for the schools, blah, blah, blah". and meanwhile the super intendent and a principal in a local district both make over $100k a year. bullshit, $100k a year for a school employee. i think teachers are underpaid and under appreciated, but thats bullshit!

i shoot 'em a big middle finger everytime they try that lame ass ploy. of course me voting no doesn't do any good because the suckers in my neighborhood all go "oh its for the kids schools, we should vote yes". and they raise the prop taxes.

fuck big govt, fuck govt employees with fat benifits, fat pensions, fat salaries and fat lazy asses!

i say a flat tax, no more than 5%. govt in charge of law enforcement, military, infrastructure and mabey a little bit of social services, privatize the rest and dog eat dog mother fucker! only the strong survive, lets rock and roll!

it will never happen but its a nice dream!

edd said...

Yo; Andy; you must be forgetting
MTV, the Supreme Court, FoxNews,
WWF, Howdy Doody, Wall Street,
Twinkies, Cheese Whiz, McDonald's,
Dan Rather, Ron Reagan, Iran-Contra,
the Shining City, the Pinto, Pizza,
supersizing, Cadillacs, American Motors,
Bill Clinton, Nixon, Spiro Agnew, SNL,
The Office, Mr. Ed, Beverly Hillbillies,
Lost In Space, My Mother The Car,
Dukes of Hazard, New Orleans
….. too many to list !

Anonymous said...

Keith ,I agree with you . The current leaders and elected politicians have gone to far and they forgot about the common man and women that made America strong If the politicians keep catering to the "fat cats" we are going down fast.

To think that the politicians and MSM crammed a PR campaign down our throats that parties that were caught up in a fraudulent,greedy , real estate mania and made poor choices (often times fraudulent )need our tax dollars to be bailed out .

Let some banks fail ,bail some borderline banks out by loans that they pay back with interest .Let the housing market prices correct .
Start spending tax money on something constructive like job creation for the good of the Country .
Maybe one day these elected clowns will discover that Americans can't live on selling real estate to each other and we need all the jobs we can get here at home .

Anonymous said...

I objected when the Fed Chairman started loaning Fed Discount Money on bad paper from places like Indymac or Countrywide and all the others .

What is the crazy plan . Lend money on bad paper until the paper can be tranferred to the books of freddie and fannie ,that will be back-stopped by a blank check from Congress to Paulson and The Feds ?

Anonymous said...

Anon July 16, 2008 7:51 PM:

Where are these third world locations within the US that you speak of?

You mean the ghetto, where they have clean running water, 24/7 power, and available emergency services?

Or do you mean the sticks, where they can live off the land or even disappear into some state forest and forage?

Or do you mean somewhere in between, suburbia, exurbia?

Just wondering....

Anonymous said...

My money and I have moved to new zealand. I don't pay less taxes but I get a LOT more for my money.

How's that hyperinflation doing for you there?

(Bloomberg) -- New Zealand's consumer prices rose at the fastest pace in 18 years in the second quarter, fanned by fuel and food costs, adding to signs the economy is facing stagflation as it slips into recession.

Hey, but you get to buddy jump a lot.

Anonymous said...

Did you put yourself through college and graduate school by taking on loans and working shit jobs such as dishwasher, busboy, janitor and/or cement laborer?

Bitterrenter never graduated. He's one of those union parasites who never did anything productive, like getting a degree, but expect a socialist regime to cut them 6-figure checks for pushing buttons on machines or waiting on tables at Chilly's. And the productive taxpayer is supposed to subside these jerks.

Anonymous said...

Here is the sad cold truth:

You elected in these bozos, all the way from Bush and his friends all the way down to your flunky bureaucrat at City Hall. I see and hear everyone bitching and whining about politics and the stupid government; if the government is so bad and screwy, then do something about it! Quit coming online talking trash and whining about the good old days and please...either vote them out or throw them out. Oh wait, most AMericans are too fat and stupid to do anything. One moment you blog on how Bush and Corporate America stick it up your butt, the next moment you're talking about which frufru bar you like getting drunk at. You guys ain't patriots/paleocons/liberals or whatever you are. It sounds like your social life sucks and you come online to cry about something (just like the clowns on the MSN blogs). If I was BUsh I would stick that gold-plated flagpole up your butt too. If the so-called American people allow frufru politicians to anger them over $5 gasoline and Walmart, then it's no wonder why there are so many problems.