May 14, 2008

HousingPANIC Shocking Admission of the Century


Q: Mr. President, for the record, is global warming real?

A: Bush: Yes, it is real, sure is.

(Next he and the ignorant crowd will come around on evolution, the big bang, the housing crash, and that Iraq was a clusterf*ck of historic proportions. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking...)

81 comments:

Pay Lay Ale said...

If there's manmade global warming, how come there hasn't been any warming in 7 years with the year 2007 seeing the largest temperature drop ever seen.

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

2007 saw a temperature drop that nearly wiped out 100 years of warming.

When has the Earth's climate ever been static? That is, when has it ever remained constant?

Why would some warming be such a bad thing? More land would be useable for food production. During the midevil warming period, it was warmer than today and wine grapes were grown in the British Isles. Greenland was inhabited and crops were grown there.

I suppose the communists will have to come up with another hysteria to battle capitalism. Maybe next it'll be hysteria over the weakening of the earth's magnetic field.

Maybe they'll come up with a stupid hypothesis saying that all of the magnetic fields we are creating are having an effect on the earth's magnetic field. If we don't do something, it'll collapse and we'll all be killed by the solar wind.

Mammoth said...

No global warming?

The dozens of mammoths that have recently been discovered in the melting permafrost in Siberia, where they have been frozen for the past 18,000 – 40,000 years has absolutely nothing to do with global warming.

Right...

Try Googling combinations ot the words “Mammoth,” “Siberia,” and “melting permafrost.” Something is indeed happening, folks.

I’m not going to get into the debate here about whether the global warming is man-made or just a natural cycle, but would like to ask the following question:

- Why does a discussion about global warming always immediately turn to politics?

Edgar Alpo said...

The only difference between those two is the part in the hair.

Reality said...

Mammoth,

Obviously, mammoth didn't live on Tundra . . . nor did the human ancestors develop a global trade and storage system that transported whole mammoths that had been killed or found in warmer climate to polar storage facilities. Somehow mammoths lived in that area at all goes to show that Siberia used to be much warmer than it is today.

Discussions of global warming often turn to politics because the proposed solutions are all political. If global warmers would just found their own Church of Global Warming, and collecte voluntary donations only for their crusade instead of trying to collect a tith from all the rest of us, there wouldn't be a political discussion.

Anonymous said...

people are frquently wrong.

Anonymous said...

Headfake - Bush saying he believes in anything is the kiss of death in the eyes of reasonable people.

Expect Bush to suddenly sound 'rational' over the next half year - whatever he supports will then be instantly discredited for a solid majority of Americans.

Pay Lay Ale said...

Mammoth:

Are you claiming that based on some mammoth finds that the earth is now warmer than at any point in the last 40,000 years?

Unfortunately the data does not support your hypothesis. The midevil warm period was warmer than it was not, without and significant CO2 emissions.

"Why does a discussion about global warming always immediately turn to politics?"

The communists didn't go away with the fall of the Soviet Union. They just found a new home in the environmental movement.

These are the same people that support the breaching the hydroelectric dams in the Pac NW and oppose nuclear energy. Both of which are the only viable forms of energy which don't release CO2.

Anonymous said...

I think I recognize the President from the photograph but who's the guy on the left?

Anonymous said...

Mammoth said...

No global warming?

I’m not going to get into the debate here about whether the global warming is man-made or just a natural cycle, but would like to ask the following question:

- Why does a discussion about global warming always immediately turn to politics?

To intelligently discuss the phenomenon of global warming requires a scientific background. How many HP'ers have a science background? The few scientists that I know are bored to death with politics and economics because there is nothing factual to it. It is a game of chance trying to predict what people are going to do with their leaders and their money.

Politics is the forum of the ignorant, the ill informed and the lazy. It is easy discussion. No homework is required. Throw your opinion out there with no need to back it up with any type of fact. That is politics.

All one really needs to know about global warming is the many satellite photos showing that the ice has disappeared from the Arctic and the Antarctic is following close behind. That's it. The ice is melting. That has not occurred to human kind for about 12,000 years. It doesn't matter who's fault it is. It is too late to stop it. Plan accordingly.

There is nothing political to say about the melted ice. It is a fact. There is no spin that you can attach to it.

So, when will it be a good time to buy a house?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, when I was a kid I believed in Santa Claus.

Some people still won't talk to me for changing my stance. I wish we could still be friends, but when I think about it, I don't really want friends like that. One of those old friends actually accused me of knowing all along that Santa Claus wasn't real and playing it for presents as long as I could.

Seriously - get over it, people. You've been wrong, you've changed your mind, and new data has made you think differently. That or you're a child who hasn't seen much yet.

keith said...

Republicans as the party of big business have historically denied global warming because that position suited the short-term interests of their big business contributors

Like denying that cigarettes caused cancer to suit the wishes of the tobacco companies (on both sides of the aisle)

But now the interesting thing is the religious-right side of the GOP is embracing global warming as fact as they feel harming the earth and its people, plants and animals is un-Christian. The Democrats are already there, so adding this wing of the GOP has now created the majority that will bring about change.

Bush's change today shows the war within the Republican party between the bible-thumpers and the big-business-crowd

Soon, the "there is no global warming" crowd will be laughed at and mocked as they rightly deserve. And a significant majority of Americans and American legislators will finally start confronting the issue. Younger generations will be even more loud and active as they'll have to live with the effects of global warming more than the boomers in power, who did nothing when they could have made a difference.

Only problem is that now it's too late. And the initial changes will be too little.

Global warming will be the biggest issue the world will face for the rest of your life here on earth. So get some popcorn and settle in for the long haul.

Reality said...

Anon 5:14,

Satellite remote sensing data actually show two facts:

(1) While arctic ice cover is shrinking, antarctic ice cover is expanding;

(2) Satellite temperature reading over the past four decades show no global warming, unlike ground stations, which might be influenced by the heat island phenomenom.

BTW, satellite pictures showing giant ice sheets collapsing into the sea is actually indicative of ice cap growth: glacier ice "tongues" extend under the pressure of growing glacier; eventually the tongues break off due to tidal action when they are floating on water. A melting in antarctica should be showing glacier retreat and exposing bare ground with strewn rocks (like Central Park).

Reality said...

Keith,

Remember the last time the political establishment all agreed on something: when Nixon famously commented, "we are now all Keynsians." It was the beginning of the 70's economic debacle that proved Keynsians wrong.

As a right-wing Democrat (advocating personal responsibility) and left-wing Republican (advocating personal freedom), I don't see much difference between the socialist left and the religious right: they all just want a nanny state, while the strugge of who gets to be the nanny can be a life-and-death struggle, it's not in most people's interest to have either one of them grabbing onto power.

Tesla said...

Anthropogenic global warming via CO2 has some serious problems. Namely, CO2 emissions increased a bit this past decade but global mean temperatures have fallen slightly.

Anonymous said...

My favorite recent moment was a few days ago. I was watching one of the leading scientists on global warming and he said. "We are going to step away from the scientific process. Rather than try to focus on the scientific process to prove it exists...we would all be better served to focus on policy changes to fix it".

WTF

Anonymous said...

We've already been over this Keith and you still haven't presented any conclusive evidence of man-made global warming or even global warming itself. I know it's very popular with the Hollywood crowd and the apostles of Al Gore but that does not make global warming a scientific fact. There is plenty of scientific evidence that contradicts the man-made global warming theory which I have already posted here.

Unless you can present us with some conclusive proof I think it's time to give it a rest buddy.

Ed said...

Guess Bush didn't read this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/
main.jhtml?
xml=/opinion/2006/04/09/do0907.xml

By Bob Carter
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 09/04/2006

For many years now, human-caused climate change has been viewed as a large and urgent problem. In truth, however, the biggest part of the problem is neither environmental nor scientific, but a self-created political fiasco. Consider the simple fact, drawn from the official temperature records of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, that for the years 1998-2005 global average temperature did not increase (there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate that differs significantly from zero).


An inconvenient truth wouldn't you say Keith?

Anonymous said...


That has not occurred to human kind for about 12,000 years


Haven't the ice and glaciers been melting for the past 12,000 years? The Sahara Desert used to be covered by glaciers. Where do you think the Great Lakes came from? Did man also cause those events? It's funny how people think that they are so powerful that they can cause hurricanes, tsunamis, tornados, and the oceans to change their temperature. The eruption of Mount Pinatubo spew more toxins, CO2 etc into the air than every machine ever invented by man over the past 200 years. All of the cars, airplanes, factories, appliances combined did less to change the climate than 30 seconds of volcanic activity.

You little cultists can do no harm to the earth that mother nature cannot repair. Keep listening to Al Gore's lies and hiding under your bed. Sure, the big bad hurricanes will go away if people stop buying SUV's. LMAO @ you idiots

Anonymous said...

You global warming monkeys are a funny bunch. You remind me of the chimps going wild at the zoo.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Hmm, maybe this is because big oil companies are positioned to get the most billions in government money for global warming (i.e. "alternative fuel") research? And big oil is behind much of the hysteria?

Wake up Keith. I like you and you're right about most things but the EU and their sheeple have duped you on this one.

Anonymous said...

Since the moderator is pro-warming I will avoid posting a counter argument since it will never appear.

Anonymous said...

in the 70's the fear was "global cooling"

deepcgi said...

It's hard core science and statistics, but I dare any of you to read something from Steve McIntyre's ClimateAudit.com. Probably the bravest intellectual mind I've ever witnessed. Check out this weeks data correction.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3066

The earth may be warming, but the IPCC is corrupt - and all (ALL) of their short term predictions are going to be wrong.

The irony is that Anthropogenic Global Warming activists act as much like religious fanatics as the intelligent design crowd.

Don't start this fight with me, you'll lose. It would be best to leave religion off the blog.

wolfie_cr said...

midevil ROFL

did you mean medieval?

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Only problem is that now it's too late. And the initial changes will be too little.

This is the hypocrisy of the global warming crowd. First they tell us we must all live in huts and drive unsafe tin cans for cars.

Then they tell us "oh, it won't matter anyway."

So why the hell are you bothering in the first place?

Anyone who has read BOTH SIDES of the story knows that global warming is totally and completely debunked by real science (meaning science from scientists who are not on the global warming research payroll).

Read the real data. It shows that the earth has been MUCH HOTTER than it is now, and that those hot periods have been BENEFICIAL to the environment.

This is just another plot to install socialism and more government control in our lives.

keith said...

Nice to see McCain own up to global warming and throw Bush under the bus like I've never seen before today. Why the big news from McCain and Bush on this after 7 years of GOP corruption? Weird.

McCain Differs With Bush on Climate Change

“I will not shirk the mantle of leadership that the United States bears,” Mr. McCain said pointedly. “I will not permit eight long years to pass without serious action on serious challenges.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/us/politics/13mccain.html?bl&ex=1210824000&en=24e32499e412881d&ei=5087

shaun said...

admitting that global warming is real is different from agreeing that it is caused by humans.

unless the quote was taken badly out of context, all the Bush agreed to is that global temperatures are rising.

not really significant, that.

PatFriedl said...

Global warming? Yes, Man-mad global warming? BULLSH!T.

sorry, there has been no proven manmade global warming. when the media tells you we've been cooling for ten years, but watch out - after that it's gonna get warm! You know that we've completely lost it.

I'm just waiting for some eco-dumb@ss to blame mankind for nightfall, or the seasons.

Anonymous said...

YOU STOP MAKING FUN OF CHIMPANZEES!

They are much smarter than the conneticut cowboy!

Probably smell better too.

Anonymous said...

Sigh. I have a degree in Physics and MS in Earth Science, but that is not needed to once again answer these questions:

Q: If there's manmade global warming, how come there hasn't been any warming in 7 years with the year 2007 seeing the largest temperature drop ever seen?

A: Climate is not determined on short time scales. My own educated hunch is that, as with any system undergoing a phase change, chaotic (unpredictable, sudden, large changes) behavior is likely to be observed.

Q: When has the Earth's climate ever been static? That is, when has it ever remained constant?

A: Another question of time scales. Over scales of 100,000 years, it is shown there are large, roughly sinusoidal fluctuations in Earth's average temperature. You are comparing that to the single century or so of the Industrial Age. But there's something else (see next question).

Q: Why would some warming be such a bad thing?
A: One possible outcome is a "runaway" Greenhouse effect. The Siberian tundra melting will release Methane gas in large quantities. This becomes a self-reinforcing phenomenon (positive feedback loop) the end point of which may be quite different than in the geological past. No one knows for sure.
Global warming can end civilization as we know it, and can cause a mass extinction of, most large species. Bad enough yet?

Q: More land would be useable for food production.
A: Some winners and some losers in the non-runaway scenario. Bear in mind most major cities are port cities and do not need to be completely inundated to be wrecked. Consider the damage wrought in Burma this week, for crying out loud.

Q: I suppose the communists will have to come up with another hysteria to battle capitalism.
A: Fear mongering is the stock in trade of neo-conservatives, purveyors of color coded terror alerts. Sustainable technology is the biggest growth industry of the coming century. I personally know people in position to build factories, and they are cro-magnon's like you, out playing golf and hating everyone and everything.

Q: Maybe next it'll be hysteria over the weakening of the earth's magnetic field.
A: Hate to break it to you, but the periodic reversal of Earth's polarity is due exactly "now" (again - geologic time, not your miserable life span) and will indeed be problematic for a number of reasons I won't go into. Look it up (and by that I don't mean see what Rush Limbaugh says on the subject).

keith said...

I'm pretty confident that none of the "there is no man-made global warming" ignorant crowd here has ever looked at the science.

Why not? Are you afraid of it?

Here's the UN report

http://www.ipcc.ch/

Here's the Pew center

http://www.pewclimate.org/global-warming-basics/

Might want to check out this chart

http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts-global-temperature-1860-2005.gif

Or hell, just look at this picture

http://www.awitness.org/journal/melt_ice_cap_glacier.html

Hell, go rent the Al Gore movie, even though you hate him. But no, you wouldn't want to see information that confronts your flat-earth beliefs, because you hate the messenger.

Bottom line - people who hate scientists and science and knowledge have been around for thousands of years. Just ask Galileo. No matter how overwhelming the data, you're more comfortable in your little hole.

Meanwhile, the sane and aware people are going to now do the right thing on this issue, whether you like it or not.

Your kids will hate you one day if they don't already.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Satellite temperature reading over the past four decades show no global warming, unlike ground stations, which might be influenced by the heat island phenomenom.

It has also been documented that the average reported temperatures went WAY up starting in the mid 1990s after hundreds of reporting weather stations in the former (and cold) USSR went offline.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Bottom line - people who hate scientists and science and knowledge have been around for thousands of years. Just ask Galileo. No matter how overwhelming the data, you're more comfortable in your little hole.

But ... these aren't real scientists. These are con men who are receiving six-figure salaries for global warming research. If they don't perpetuate the myth, they get no more six-figure salaries for free.

These "scientists" are right up there with realtors and mortgage brokers. WAKE THE F*CK UP!!!!

PolishKnight said...

Er, what does ANY of this has to do with housing? Oh, wait, that's right: Most of these blogs are run by leftists who live in groundzero housing bubble regions.

Thank heavens for marxism that is so much more rational and logical than crazy religious opiateheads. Oh, wait, "the sky is falling the sky is falling!"

Good luck with that. I happen to think that it's great that GW is blowing your tax money on his buddies and war. Just consider it an "affirmative action". Get it?

Lost Cause said...

It reminds me of all the years that Reagan ignored AIDS. Then suddenly it becaame important, just as he was leaving office.

Lost Cause said...

I say stop using the products of the oil companies for other reasons if you do not beleive in anthrpomorphic global warming. The ordinary air pollution, the plastics in the oceans and landfills, oils spills everywhere. The prices you pay to boost their profits.

Shakster said...

I have pictures of Glaciers in the Swiss,and French Alps that had receded all the way to the crests.Almost completely wiped out.Years?
1890s.
All the envirojunkies clamour for laws against being human,or laws to stop normal humans from being who they are-curious,inventive,industrious,thrill seeking,and reproductive.
The catalytic converter was invented supposedly to stop pollution,yet it creates C02,The BoogeyGas of Greenhouse.
We humans were absolutely meant to be here on this Earth.All our selfish ,and unselfish desires ,mistakes,,and successes.Our ferraris,and muscle cars,jets,and rocketships are absolutely in the design of the World ,and galaxy.We are blessed too.This earth is not some wimpy rock 98,000,000 miles away from the Sun.It can handle anything we throw at it.It does not complain,or want vengeance.It does what it does,and presents us all with our challenges,and resources to make anything our hearts desire.
In other words ,and to make this simple.
This earth is ours,the sun and stars are all ours to do with what we please.We will not ever hurt it.Especially with cars,billions of people,or even nuclear war.This earth has been Ice Aged,Volcanoed around the Tertiary,and slammed with Asteroids.99% of life is said to have been wiped out in the past yet here we are.
As for Politics?Money ,and Control are the extent of those.
Go ahead ,and cry for the earth,and pitty it ,and yourself.It does not hear you.
Do AS YOU WILL,FOR THAT IS THE EXTENT OF THE LAW.

keith said...

Perfect comparison. When Reagan died I said "good riddance", because when he was president he never mentioned the word AIDS until May 1987, when he could have done some good.

Bush now admitting to global warming, 7 years too late, in May 2007, is the EXACT same timeline, but on an even more damaging scale.

When Bush 2 is gone, I'll also say "good riddance". The damage that one man can cause this world is amazing.

Shakster said...

BTW
Can We arrest Mother Nature NOW?
One count of Mining without permits.One trillion tons of earth have been displaced in arizona,and dumped into the Gulf of California.

Kevin said...

Wow: there is still a LOT of misinformation out there.

The science that shows the world is warming is solid and only in dispute in the popular media. The scientific community is pretty-well past that portion of the debate. Just ask the American Association for the Advancement of Science or any other major scientific body. Even the EPA (with all the influences that come with being under the current administration) voices no dissent from the prevailing scientific consensus.

Is CO2 a significant factor in causing a rise in global temperatures? The correlation is very strong (correlation != causation, but often indicates it).

Did the warming trend in Northern Europe during the Middle Ages indicate that temperatures were higher globally at that time: probably not. See Figure Two at the bottom of this page.

IF the correlation between CO2 and global mean temperatures does indicate causation AND given that additional CO2 in the atmosphere remains there for a long time, is it possible for us to avoid significant impacts from climate change? In the short and medium term, no. The correlation between CO2 and temperatures indicate that we will see a nasty amount of climate change with severe economic fallout likely. In the LONG term, we may be able to reduce CO2 levels in order to prevent additional change (and that would be desirable), but in the short term we just need to prepare for the cost economically and in the quality of our lives. However, just because it is too late to prevent climate change it is not to late to set about fixing the damage that is coming.

Anonymous said...

I remind all my hippy friends that they exhale copious amounts of carbon dioxide in a lifetime and if they really want to reduce their carbon footprint they should kill themselves.

Anonymous said...


I say stop using the products of the oil companies


Another lying moron. I suppose you don't ride the bus or fly anywhere? How did you get your computer? I bet it was shipped to you or the store you bought it from.

Anonymous said...

If there is a housing bubble then it is reasonable to conclude that man-made global warming is a fact. That logic makes perfect sense

Andrew Hac said...

What will it take to restore the Americano nation AKA the land of the Snapper Turtle to its former hoity-toity posture, prosperity and security ?

Probably not in Dubya's lifetime.

The necessary correction will be extremely severe and painful. Joe6Pack + JaneZinfandel will have to lose at least 100 pounds each in their filthy bodily fat, retrain in their piggy food consumption habit and practice restraint in their hog-fun reproductive orgy. Can it be done ? Yes, but bitterly and painfully the exercise will be.

And if there is even little shred of Dubya's worshipping residing in Joe6Pack's + JaneZinfandel's ass brain, then all bets are off.

Why ? The simple equation next will prove that the Americano is as toasted as a snapper turtle skewered on a green Chinese bamboo stick, sizzling nicely, fat popping, juices smokeing, dripping aromatically on a bed of red hot charcoal, as long as Dubya is still sitting in the John's Throne.

BUSHY = Real-Public-Cuunnt !

So, are we roasted yet ? Is it done nicely already ? How will the Americano survive with an Escalade and $5.00/gallon gasoline price ? How is the Hicks family coming along ? How is uncle Cracker Nuthead doing out there up in HillBilly's land with the sheeps and the goats ? Is the Americano going Albusto yet ???

Anonymous said...

Shakster said...

We humans were absolutely meant to be here on this Earth.All our selfish ,and unselfish desires ,mistakes,,and successes.Our ferraris,and muscle cars,jets,and rocketships are absolutely in the design of the World ,and galaxy.We are blessed too.This earth is not some wimpy rock 98,000,000 miles away from the Sun.It can handle anything we throw at it.It does not complain,or want vengeance.It does what it does,and presents us all with our challenges,and resources to make anything our hearts desire.
In other words ,and to make this simple.
This earth is ours,the sun and stars are all ours to do with what we please.

Were you an only child?

JaneZ

Anonymous said...

Reality said...

(1) While arctic ice cover is shrinking, antarctic ice cover is expanding;

(2) Satellite temperature reading over the past four decades show no global warming, unlike ground stations, which might be influenced by the heat island phenomenom.

BTW, satellite pictures showing giant ice sheets collapsing into the sea is actually indicative of ice cap growth: glacier ice "tongues" extend under the pressure of growing glacier; eventually the tongues break off due to tidal action when they are floating on water. A melting in antarctica should be showing glacier retreat and exposing bare ground with strewn rocks (like Central Park).

Opinions are like assholes everyone has one. Back up your arguments with at least a factoid or two (tiny url's are nice) if you want to be taken seriously. Unless of course you are the self-annointed expert who discovered the above amazing facts about glacial dynamics in the Antarctic.

Try something like this little factoid:

http://tinyurl.com/4fkggy

JaneZ

Anonymous said...

HEADLINE: Bush Threatens Housing Bailout Veto!

Heh.

Anonymous said...

hey look marg, its dubya and obama...

Anonymous said...

http://www.iceagenow.com/

Global Warming is "The Big Lie" google that term, it means that if you repeat a lie enough no matter how outlandish, the sheeple will believe.

It is marketing hype, note how Al Gore always appears blaming everything on global warming, which, if you investigate, he stands to make big bucks from the scam. This is just another bubble/scam.

Please research for yourself, there are stories of scientists being censured for daring to challenge. Want to decrease your carbon footprint? Just stop breathing!

Sure we want to conserve the environment, corporate America stands to make too much off of oil to invest in truly innovative energy conservation. No, it would be better to tax you for your "carbon footprint". This is the utter hypocrisy that defines fascist corporate whore America.

Please stop breathing...thank you.

vanilla ice said...

It appears most people here would rather do nothing except find sources debunking global warming theory instead of acknowledging the possibility and try to do something about it. But what the heck. It's our planet. We can ruin it however we please.

Anonymous said...

keith what about this ticket?

obama president
edwards vice president

edwards is from the south. today he said he as for obama...

the taste of clintons is still in the mouths of some people i think. they are not very well liked by those who have been around them and seen them in action. now there is discussion about foster again on the internet...hmmm...they say foster got pretty upset about the clintons and what they did at waco....you know, the place where they used tanks against some (bubble shy of plumb) religious folks....and killed all those women and children......yep i still remember that...just another sorry episode....courtesy of bill clinton...

Anonymous said...

Wow: there is still a LOT of misinformation out there.

It's funny that the stuff you disagree with is labeled as misinformation.

Consensus science is not science.

IF the correlation between CO2 and global mean temperatures does indicate causation

"IF" huh...

What "IF" it actually indicates that there is no causation?

Why should we waste any time on something which isn't proven?

Suppose you said that global warming might be caused by cosmic rays? Does that mean we should invest trillions of dollars in building a man made shield around the planet?

Where do ANY of you get off saying that something should be done when you have no scientific proof. Just theories, conjecture and "consensus science".

"3 out of 4 dentists recommend Orbit gum..." so hey Orbit gum doesn't cause cavities right?

BULL - show me the science. By dentists who aren't being bought by the corporation!

There is still not ONE shred of PROOF that:

1) The current temperature fluctations are not part of the general background changes which happen in a dynamic environment on earth.

2) That CO2 is the cause.

3) That mankind (which actually provides less than 10% of the total world CO2 output per year) is responsible.

4) That mankind is capable of changing the natural/synthetic global fluctuations in temperature.

The fact is - if we were serious - we could probably cut man made CO2 emissions to 0 in a year. But would it help? The other 90% of CO2 comes from natural sources - more than half from the oceans themsleves.

But how many people would have to starve for this to happen?

Don't worry - the rich in the west wont be the ones going hungry.

It's funny Keith - you start getting high and mighty about rice prices and how that will affect the poor - but you don't see that your (and the idiots who run our countries) support of the global warming cult will cause more deaths to the poor than if all rice disappeared off the face of the earth.

Anonymous said...

I love Andrew Hac.

deepcgi said...

Alright, you picked this religious battle. Do not wave the science from the IPCC or Pew Center in front of someone who pours over the statistical data the way I do - saying opposition to AGW fear-mongering is misinformation. Ask yourself which side in this debate is fear-mongering. Let's take one small example of concrete evidence that is currently being dismissed by the IPCC.

The fact that Southern Hemisphere Sea Ice has Reached “Unprecedented” Levels:
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3066

Do you know why the unprecedented increase in southern sea ice isn't being reported? Because they haven't had time to reverse engineer the computer models to "predict" massive INCREASES in sea ice south of the border, yet.

Therefore, all of the press releases from the AGW crisis groups this week are only talking about the arctic or Siberia. In another few weeks or months we will be hearing about computer models that predicted the huge increase in sea ice south of the border in a way that furthers the agenda. Predictive "science" custom tailored to fit the facts. That is NOT science. It is propaganda. And it is not the media distorting the statistics, but the grant-loving fear mongerering clergy of this new religion.

Prove Steve McIntyre wrong. I dare you. His data is so complete, cogent, and damning to the AGW community that their defense against him is simple black-booking.

Anonymous said...

-I'm pretty confident that none of the "there is no man-made global warming" ignorant crowd here has ever looked at the science.


Do you really think folks are going to take time to research the facts? Even if they did they won't be able to understand what someone with a science background would take for granted. I think you are giving the "no man-made global warming" crowd too much credit. That liberal arts degree from west bum-f*ck CC just doesn't cut it when it comes to this subject matter. besides it is too easy to repeat what they hear from industry lobyist a.k.a consertive talk radio.

Yes folks, there is no man-made effect on global warming. We are just a bunch of communist trying to limit your freedom.

Anonymous said...

"- Why does a discussion about global warming always immediately turn to politics?"

Because some smart folks don't want to get "Global Warming Bill" coming out of the Capitol, idiot.

Pay Lay Ale said...

"Climate is not determined on short time scales. My own educated hunch is that, as with any system undergoing a phase change, chaotic (unpredictable, sudden, large changes) behavior is likely to be observed."

Exactly, and current temps are not outside historical geological norms. The global warming loons want to look at very modest warming over a short period of time. In addition to long run cycles, you also have short run cycles. There was a lot of warming from 1900-1940, and some cooling from 1940-1980. The cooling during that time caused some global cooling hysteria.

"A: Another question of time scales. Over scales of 100,000 years, it is shown there are large, roughly sinusoidal fluctuations in Earth's average temperature."

Exactly my point as well. The modest warming over the last century is within the sinusoidal fluctuations of long periods of time, like 100,000 years.

"One possible outcome is a "runaway" Greenhouse effect. The Siberian tundra melting will release Methane gas in large quantities. This becomes a self-reinforcing phenomenon (positive feedback loop) the end point of which may be quite different than in the geological past."

Well how in the hell did the biomass get in the Siberian Tundra in the first damned place? I guess it would have to be because it was warmer there at some point that supported the biomass.

"Bear in mind most major cities are port cities and do not need to be completely inundated to be wrecked. Consider the damage wrought in Burma this week, for crying out loud."

So you build some seawalls for low-lying port cities. The damage wrought in Burma was caused by a despicable government that did nothing to warn or help its people.

"Fear mongering is the stock in trade of neo-conservatives, purveyors of color coded terror alerts."

Agreed, and I am not a neo-con, but a libertarian.

"Hate to break it to you, but the periodic reversal of Earth's polarity is due exactly "now" (again - geologic time, not your miserable life span)"

Which is exactly my point. I guess you don't understand sarcasm.

Anonymous said...

Global Warming was real until 1997. Since then temps have cooled, and the sunspot activity shows cooling may be in store for many years.

Humans did not cause GW. It was the Sun.

Pay Lay Ale said...

"Here's the UN report

http://www.ipcc.ch/"

The UN's motivations are pure as the wind driven snow, right?

Why don't you read this letter to the IPCC? Note that one of them is a Nobel laureate.

http://www.ilovemycarbondioxide.com/letters/IPCC_letter_14April08.pdf

"Might want to check out this chart

http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts-global-temperature-1860-2005.gif"

Oh Nooooooooooo, run for the hills, a 1* C rise in temperature over 150 years is unprecedented. [sarcasm].

"Or hell, just look at this picture

http://www.awitness.org/journal/melt_ice_cap_glacier.html"

Nice way to cherry pick the data. Funny you mention 2003 and DELIBERATELY fail to mention the regrowth of arctic sea ice in 2007/2008 to normal levels.

Oh and I guessed you missed the memo on arctic ice from NASA.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-131

How's the antarctic ice? Oh that's right, it's at record levels.

Oh, and this debunks the notion that there's a consensus among scientists.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb

Armageddon_Through_To_You said...

Keith, I couldn't let the evolution statement go unanswered : )

BTW, Jesus Christ IS God, period!

If you are not buying into the whole bible thing, you have not adequately researched it. You don't just read a bible for the same reason you don't just read calculus. Both of them require study, not just a read-through.

You seem like an otherwise smart and decent guy so I hate seeing you lose your eternal salvation.

Do yourself a favor and check out some bible prophecy sites and/or books before it's too late.

If you don't get saved, you will have an eternity to contemplate why you did not heed my post or others like it. That in itself could be considered a form of hell ; )

Some guy tries to save your *ss from eternal damnation and you ignore him. Almost happened to me too, but my damn curiosity got the best of me, so I looked into it and whoa! and thank God!

What will it have gained you to call the housing bubble correctly and miss the whole boat regarding your eternal salvation?

Think about it at least. I know I could convince you given the time, but there's not enough time left.

Anonymous said...

Yes, people devote their life blood to obtaining a PhD in Physics so they can steal money. Do you have any idea what the starting salary for a scientist is? It ain't the six figures (and six figures isn't quite the threshold to the upper class it used to be, in case you haven't noticed).

Sufferin' Moses, what a waste! And Shakster, I hope that was supposed to be a joke along the lines of the classic "the gains are permanent" comment!

Anonymous said...

The earth has gone through many cycles of global warming(and global cooling)long before man started burning fossil fuels; the geological records are clear on that, so there's nothing shocking about such an admission.

The dispute is how large a role man has played in this warming cycle through the use of fossil fuels and to what degree we could influence this warming cycle.

Anonymous said...

clinton said a while ago on the clinton news network, that she will never quit and that they want michigan and florida counted. this is going to add up to be a enormous fight at the convention. i told you keith. these people are insane and will do anything to win, whatever it takes, because this crap is their life.....this is what they do....they have never had real jobs, in their whole lives....always worked for the government....

Anonymous said...

Anyone who doesn't believe in man-made global warming is a Nazi who believes that the earth is flat

Anonymous said...


Is CO2 a significant factor in causing a rise in global temperatures? The correlation is very strong (correlation != causation, but often indicates it).


You were fooled by Al Gore's fictitious little movie. The rise in CO2 levels follow the rise in temperatures.

keith said...

The evolution versus religion argument is a false argument.

God couldn't just fly a human down from space - he had to evolve a human here on earth, over billions of years. Science is not your enemy, science is your friend and for the religious can prove the hand of god. Science explains.

For the christian flavors who don't believe in or understand evolution, why couldn't god just fly jesus down to earth as a man ready to start preachin? No, he had to have jesus evolve, after having been born, just like any other human

It's 2008 folks, not 1633. Science is not your enemy, it is your friend. Religions who preach ignorance are your true enemy.

Might want to check this one out too:

Truth Cannot Contradict Truth
Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences

"New knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis."

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm

And this one

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n1_v21/ai_19226317

At least the catholics are getting clear on this one. Now only if the baptists etc would catch up..

real scientist and engineer said...

For you global warming dimwits who aren't scientists or engineers - computer models mean nothing. You can input data into the multivariate model and come out with 700 different results. Then you choose the one that fits your agenda. The financial engineers did the same thing at S&P in order to give the subprime CDO's a AAA rating. Anyone can create a simple model or input data to support their cause. I can create a computer model that shows home prices will increase by 20% this year. It means nothing. Release the alarmist results to the chimps in the media and watch them jump up and down screaming in panic. Release a result that says everything will be ok and you have no story.

Yes, I believe there was a housing bubble
Yes, I believe in evolution
Yes, I believe the earth is round
Yes, I believe Iraq was a screw up
No, I don't believe in man-made global warming

Guess what? Just because I answered yes to some of them doesn't mean I have to answer yes to all of them. There's no connection between the Iraq War and global warming. There is no correlation between evolution and global warming. The global warming cults are desperately throwing out canards because they do not have the science to back up their claims. They resort to name calling and cherrypicking data.

Anonymous said...

Anthroprogenic Global Warming is a COMPLETE HOAX!!!

Teenage Skeptic Takes on Climate Scientists

Click the "Listen Now" button here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89619306

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php?item.10.1

http://home.earthlink.net/~ponderthemaunder/index.html

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/04/15/16-year-old-climate-realist-kristen-byrnes-interviewed-npr

Armageddon_Through_To_You said...

LOL - Keith, you might want to Google Roman Catholic Church (RCC) and bible prophecy since you're citing them as your source for Christianity. The RCC is not really even Christian, but since most Catholics don't know that, I can't expect you to.

BTW, the RCC plays an important role in the last days. Watch David Hunt's video on Youtube titled "A Woman Rides the Beast".

I can tell from your answers you've never seriously looked into the bible or studied biblical typologies. Watch any Chuck Missler video on Youtube for some basics.

Even from your secular point of view, here's what's wrong with your thinking. If you're right and I'm wrong, it won't matter, we'll both die and decay into dust. If I'm right and you're wrong, as a believer in Christ, I live for eternity with the riches that are promised and you spend eternity in hell. That's not a smart bet any way you look at it. By the way, that's not my reason for being a believer. It was all the typologies and repeating parallel story patterns spread out over several thousand years that were way too much for mere coincidence, not to mention how things have played out exactly as was prophesied.

We're so close to the end, you have no idea. Watch the two most recent videos at prophecyinthenews.com for a clue. If it doesn't make sense, it's only because you don't have a basic understanding of the bible.

Pay Lay Ale said...

Keith said,

"The evolution versus religion argument is a false argument."

I'm not sure who here is even disputing evolution. I thought we were talking about anthroprogenic global warming.

Oh, and evolution does disprove a number of religions, including xianity. When religions make core or foundational claims that have proven to be false, like Genesis does, then it is false.

Shakster said...

@ JaneZ
Do tell.You will be pushing for anti reproduction laws particularly one that forces every child to be an only child ,Right?
Too many people makes the world too warm?Do you get out during the day,or is that ball of hot sun too hot for you?Were you ever a child? If so ,Grow UP,yah friggen Tool.or not,whatever.

Michael Chrichton said...

Wow, everyone read my book!

a.creampuff said...

Is it happening? Is it not happening?

If you consider the outpouring of the bulk of Earth's store of CO2 over a hundred-odd years, something any school child can understand will retain heat from the sun, to be an "uncontrolled experiment" (there is precisely one known habitable biosphere) then these questions become moot.

It is only prudent to stop using fossil fuels and seek sustainable alternatives. There are several other advantages to be had from creating a sustainable technology in the closed biosphere of spaceship Earth, such as new markets, better standard of living, less incentive for war, preserving oil for other uses such as plastics, and more.

Why this is threatening is the interestintg question. Why mankind likes to allow problems to fester until it is too late to do anything about them is another, although the weak thinking in this thread is a partial explanation.

Anonymous said...

Yes folks, there is no man-made effect on global warming. We are just a bunch of communist trying to limit your freedom.

Damn right you are!

You still haven't shown that CO2 even CAUSES global warming. H2O is ten times more effective as a greenhouse gas.

Second... Humans produce less than 10% of the yearly CO2 produced by the planet. The other 90%+ comes from NATURAL sources.

So yes... you are a bunch of communist bastards that are using fear tactics (not science) to force everyone into paying a carbon tax. So why would I even DREAM that just the above two facts alone might actually stir a few of your brain cells into realizing how stupid you sound and how much of the propaganda you've swallowed.

The end result of this global warming cult will be millions more poor people in the developing countries starving to death.

Rot in hell you commie bastard!

Anonymous said...

Yes, people devote their life blood to obtaining a PhD in Physics so they can steal money. Do you have any idea what the starting salary for a scientist is? It ain't the six figures (and six figures isn't quite the threshold to the upper class it used to be, in case you haven't noticed).

Have you ever heard of a grant?

Have you seen the houses that some of these university profs live in?

More than I can afford at $100 bucks an hour?

Their salary is measly... which explains why they will pull ANYTHING out of their ass to get those grants!

Anonymous said...

If you consider the outpouring of the bulk of Earth's store of CO2 over a hundred-odd years, something any school child can understand will retain heat from the sun,

Then those school children should get their money back. H2O (water vapour) is ten times more effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas.

Too bad they didn't know this right?

So what now genius... are we going to put laws banning the boiling of water?

Anonymous said...

Isn't pollution-- air, water, land a bigger more immediate problem? I am actually more concerned about the bad aire I have to breathe everyday.

Anonymous said...


Do you have any idea what the starting salary for a scientist is? It ain't the six figures (and six figures isn't quite the threshold to the upper class it used to be, in case you haven't noticed).


The professors are paid pretty well. I've never seen a starving professor. If you have some bullcrap degree with a 2.0 GPA, then I'm sure you would be starving.

Anonymous said...

Pay Lay Ale:
"Oh, and evolution does disprove a number of religions, including xianity. When religions make core or foundational claims that have proven to be false, like Genesis does, then it is false."

Which claims? Are you referring to the "7 days" of creation? Have you read elsewhere in the Bible that a flash of time to God is an inconceivable length of time for us? Or are you referring to something else?

I can understand some of you are trapped in the 80s or whatever because you are too afraid to leave the house, but wake up! Science can support religion and vice versa. I think the story of finding chariot parts and bones at the bottom of the Red Sea is particularly fascinating.

Pay Lay Ale said...

"Which claims? Are you referring to the "7 days" of creation? Have you read elsewhere in the Bible that a flash of time to God is an inconceivable length of time for us? Or are you referring to something else?"

No, I'm not referring to the 7 days directly, but please explain how retroviral DNA, vestigial structures, phylogenetic reconstruction, and fossils support the case for creation.

"Science can support religion and vice versa."

Since when?

"I think the story of finding chariot parts and bones at the bottom of the Red Sea is particularly fascinating."

If it looks like a coral and feels like a coral, it must be a chariot wheel...Which museum is housing the ancient chariot wheels he claimed to have been from the Red Sea Crossing?

Oh, and Ron Wyatt is a proven fraud.

http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/

Anonymous said...

"correlation != causation, but often indicates it"
...
"IF the correlation between CO2 and global mean temperatures does indicate causation"

Aha! That was your first misstep. You were on the right track with the first statement, but it didn't fit where you wanted to go so you went the "if" route. Hardly scientific - speculation is the correct word I believe.

Kind of like Al Gore and his interest in energy credits. They (dollars) weren't going where he wanted (his pocket) so he went the "if" route (if I made a movie). And like the pied piper of fairy tales, the children fell in line behind him...

You youngsters who think people will really expend all their energy for an altruistic purpose rather than financial gain will just have to revisit your thoughts in 20 years. You won't miss them during that time, I can guarantee it.