And you just know they're walking away from no-down toxic loans in droves too. Nice job Wells Fargo giving loans to illegals! Nice job Countrywide! Nice job IndyMac. Fricking idiots.
You're gonna see ghost towns in America folks, where the illegals moved in and just as quickly moved out. The buildings will still stand, torn and tattered spanish-language billboards and closed-down storefronts will dot the landscape, (most of) the people will be gone, and trust me, you won't want to go there at night. Tucson, South Phoenix, most of LA and San Diego, the border cities of Texas, and so many more are gonna get nasty. Like a bad zombie-picture nasty.
And I'll remind you when Nicholas Retsinas, the corrupt and incompetent REIC stooge who runs the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies, talked about the REIC wanting the illegals to keep pouring in - who else was going to buy up all these stupid unwanted houses? Hell, who was gonna build more of these stupid unwanted houses? The illegals! That's who!
Didn't quite turn out that way, huh Nick? Maybe the illegals can take Retsinas over the border with 'em. We don't need him anymore.
And it sure is nice to see that some Governors still think the United States is a nation of laws. Even though our corrupted Congress and President have given up on that ideal.
The US a nation of laws? That concept seems so, well, how would you say, so retro! Doesn't it?
April 11, 2008
And then right on schedule the illegals started going home
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84 comments:
10% of Arizona workers are illegal? Hay carumba!
How dare a State enforce a law!!
Unreal!! Lets hope others follow what Arizona is doing. I hear crime is way down there. Wonder why?
I am going to hire an illegal to do my landscapeing.The white boys are worthless.they show up drunk and can't work two days in a row.How about we start a taco stand at the border?
Arizona is so screwed
http://www.embargowellsfargo.com/
If you bank with Wells Fargo, you should take your business elsewhere because they have done more than any other bank to help illegal immigrants get banking services, including loans for houses!
“Wells Fargo is the first major California lender to offer home loans to illegal immigrants”
"…we won't question your legal status"
John Murillo, Wells Fargo vice president at a Spanish-language news conference
Wells Fargo has opened over 525,000 accounts for illegal aliens (July 2005)
"Wells Fargo is opening 700 new accounts every day for illegal aliens"
Successfully lobbied government to not require Social Security ID
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWtz6B7MeRI
Wells Fargo gives Home Loans to Illegal Aliens!
Thats why the unemployment figures haven't been awful. It was the illegals who got canned first
When I was 18 I lost a job because a border brother was willing to do it for almost half (I was only making $10 an hour). Adios!
"Hell, who was gonna build more of these stupid unwanted houses?"
Sacramento is in such bad shape they're trying to get builders to start construction on more homes just so they can create jobs.
Wonder why the Arizona politicians are leading the lobbying effort for the federal government to bail out the state, local governments, and homeowners+bankers! They just killed their own economy.
A Nation of Law is about having a minimum set of laws that make sense, and can be followed without much regulatory effort spent on "enforcing" them, so that business and people can go on improving their own lives. A Nation of Law is not about making up arbitrary laws and enforcement regardless economic consequences. Sure, some Germans must have thought it was enforcing "A Nation of Law" when they helped ferreting out Jews in hiding . . . some Soviets must have thought they too were contributing to "A Nation of Law" when they turned in undocumented soviet citizens who were going into the cities without government paper giving them the eligibility. None of us in the West would consider either Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia as "A Nation of Law" as both were riddled with corruption, as any law that runs counter to the natural desire of freedom and liberty is bound to generate. As they say, when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag!
Keith, it will be interesting to see what yout thoughts would be when they come to confiscate your gold and gunss because that's the new law. BTW, not reporting interest income from Swiss bank accounts is highly illegal.
"How dare a State enforce a law!!"
Immigration is a federal status, not a state status. It makes no sense for a state to waste law enforcement resources to break its own economy . . . in order to enforce the codes of a different jurisdiction.
good riddance. I would send this economy into a depression just to get rid of the bastards!
"When I was 18 I lost a job because a border brother was willing to do it for almost half (I was only making $10 an hour). Adios"
I have an idea, why don't we make $20/hr the mandatory minimum wage; that must make the 18-yr olds twice as well off. Heck, why don't we make it $20,000/hr! We'd all be millionairs in three monts! woohoo!
Of course, when you try to spend that money buying anything, there won't be the cheap labor to give you anything either.
They'll be back. If the US economy suffers, Mexico feels the effects. When things get bad here they will be far worse in Mexico, and there will be an even greater influx of illegal immigration.
Only when poor Mexicans cross the border illegally in the future, there won't be any construction jobs for them to take. Nobody left in Mexico will have anything worth stealing, and there won't be any jobs if they come north. The consequences will a significant increase in criminal activity.
Whatever your opinion regarding immigrants who have entered the United States illegally, realize that if you are in the market for a new house, it's likely to take longer to build -- and cost more to buy -- if they are forced to leave the country.
The National Association of Home Builders estimates that 20 percent of the construction workforce -- about 2.4 million people -- is foreign-born. While it's impossible to know how many are undocumented, some estimates put the number at 50 percent or more.
Whatever the true count, builders across the country say illegal immigrants play an important role in a construction labor market that is already stretched thin.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/28/REGVDJ2H1G1.DTL
.
ADIOS!
.
The Steel company will send the jobs to Mexico. What hire a white boy? HORRORS!!!
There is an anti-American mentality prevalent in the business climate. The company should deported as well. If you don't want to hire Americans, then get the hell out of America.
Whatever your opinion regarding immigrants who have entered the United States illegally, realize that if you are in the market for a new house, it's likely to take longer to build -- and cost more to buy -- if they are forced to leave the country.
The National Association of Home Builders estimates that 20 percent of the construction workforce -- about 2.4 million people -- is foreign-born. While it's impossible to know how many are undocumented, some estimates put the number at 50 percent or more.
Whatever the true count, builders across the country say illegal immigrants play an important role in a construction labor market that is already stretched thin.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/28/REGVDJ2H1G1.DTL
BULLSHIT!!!! How can it cost more?! No, more than likely the greedy fucking house builders will not only have to pay an honest wage but not rely on such heavy profits - consider this - who in the fuck built america before the brown cockroach invasion?
When caught and residence is verified, IF illegal, tattoo a red X on the forehead.
A Public Service Message
Anonytroll said-
Whatever your opinion regarding immigrants who have entered the United States illegally, realize that if you are in the market for a new house, it's likely to take longer to build -- and cost more to buy -- if they are forced to leave the country.
You left out the fact that the house will also be better quality constrution and will not start falling apart before you even move in like the sh!tboxes that pass for houses in most exurb developments. I have seen movie sets that are sturdier than some of these dumps.
Any corner cut on construction is a safety hazard. Bad plumbing can cause water damage, waste contamination and mold. Bad Electrical electrocution and fire hazards. Bad Framing, let's just say I would not want to be in a mass produced house built in the boom years when the next earthquake hits SoCal.
Think of it this way: Your car needs its brakes repaired, the dealer wants $300, the guy who cuts your lawn says he can do it for $100. This is an IQ test. Guess which answer is chosen by an idiot. The same standard should apply to the building where you and your nearest and dearest spend most of their lives.
What about city or county building inspections? You actually think an inspector inspects every one of the thousands of houses in a development? I would be suprised if they inspected more than 1% in a given development.
Whatever your opinion regarding immigrants who have entered the United States illegally, realize that if you are in the market for a new house, it's likely to take longer to build -- and cost more to buy -- if they are forced to leave the country.
Thats because you can't cheat a legal worker out of wages because they are not afraid to report you to the state. This is a very common practice with illegal workers here. Arizona will be better off when these scumbag employers are forced out of business by the law.
how are these states going to handle these blighted areas? Will the state governments make deals with the banks and buy up large chunks of land?
I didn't see anywhere in the article that said that these busses were going to Mexico. The reporter said ANY BORDER. My guess is that the will be heading to neighboring states first before heading south.
I know from personal experience that there are plenty of Europeans illegaly in CA & New England I wonder when these people will be returning home?
Since when does any economy have to have illegals? Immigration Laws are necessary to ensure a nation's sovereignty. The world is not a 60's Hippie Commune. Mexico has some pretty harsh immigration laws, and its foolish to think anything would improve down there if illegal immigration from El Salvador or Honduras made labor EVEN LOWER PAYING THAN IT ALREADY IS south of the border.
I love seeing these greedy, rich, filthy rich American pigs (owns 50 burger joints) saying that it's hurting the economy.
How many f-cking millions do you need dude? You gluttonous rat!
How about paying a decent salary and lowering your profit from $40M a year down to $25M a year!
Not good enough for you? You want more money and to break the law.
I guess when you're a millionaire selfish American fat pig with plenty of retirement and mansions, what the f-ck do you care if hospitals are closing, the State is in debt and common hard-working Americans are losing their social security/social service net?
I wish, I pray they catch you with an illegal alien and confiscate all your sh-t your greedy rat!
F you!
Oh, yeah. You're the same kind of fat pig that loves doing business with evil, slave labor China.
By the way Free Tibet from the fat pig communists too!
I live in Arizona and I support the law. There aren't that many jobs here, so the less competition the better. Illegal workers only benefit the rich business owners who can pay less. Our schools, hospitals, and prisons are overrun by illegals. Let them go to California and bleed them dry. Oh wait, they're already doing that.
>>>if you are in the market for a new house, it's likely to take longer to build -- and cost more to buy<<<
Another 6%er speaks!
When are you ramen-eaters going to realize that prices are going to keep FALLING because no one is buying! And the mass exodus of messycans to the border only will make the decline in prices steeper because inventory in Phoenix will continue to climb as all these illegals clear out and their liar loans foreclose. If you think things are getting better in Phoenix, think again! Give it another year - houses will be down another 20% or MORE.
The States have fully vested and legitimate interests to enforce both state and federal laws where the states resources are being impacted, including when their schools, hospitals, fire and police, roads, and all other infrstructure are advsersly impacted by illegal activity, be it air pollution, water pollution, or Mexicans spewing forth across the border illegally from Mexico.
Mexico has been offshoring their social obligations into the US for too long. To tolerate any additional illegal entry into the US is to tolerate an act of war on the part of the Mexican Federal Legislature and their so called leaders against the tax paying US citizens.
One point to ponder: If an illegal Mexican shoots an American citizen the media calls it a criminal act invloving a "Hispanic", but understand that more US citizens will be killed one criminal act at a time by illegal Mexicans running wild in the US this year than were killed in 9/11 by the Al Quada. You are way more likely to lose your life here in the US to a drunk Mexican (or any other illegal vermin) running a red light than some Islamic bomb thrower taking you out for Allah!
I love illegal labor. I can not question a person's status but I love getting fantastic deals for my lawn services/winter snow removal, my pool getting cleaned, my house being cleaned up, haircuts, maintenance for my home, and my mechanic.
There are benefits to having illegals doing the work that other Americans either won't do or if they do perform it, they want to rip you off. Case in point, I just had my timing belt and water pump done for my car and I bought the parts and my mechanic did the labor side for only $250! At any other shop, the total cost would easily be in the range of $550 to $750. So there are benefits of having illegals in this country folks and chances are the guys and gals ranting about illegals are probably the first one to line up to have their car fixed, lawn mowed, swimming pool cleaned, etc... by illegal labor.
People need to learn the difference between the absolute size of the economy and the per capita size of the economy.
A worker who puts in one hour of work per week at a menial job increases the absolute size of the economy, but because he's producing so much less than the average worker, he's reducing the average level of wealth. Worse, in an economy with a social safety net, others will have to work harder just to bring him up to the minimum standard of living enforced by the government.
Kicking out illegals has the effect of removing the bottom end of the curve, the least educated, the least productive, the ones who don't carry their own weight. Yes, the absolute size of the economy has decreased, but so has the population. When you do the division, you find that everyone else is better off.
My ex wife is a legal immigrant and we both agree no papers no trabajo. Adios compadreas economy be damned what the hell it already is.
Interesting side note in Colorado Springs they are already gone even without new laws.
SEQUOIA
Keith,
You need to start another blog called
Peak Oil Panic. It is upon us. I believe this is the next crises unfolding.
We don't need all those illegal immigrants. They were building a bunch of houses we didn't need either. They were doing a crappy job at it.
If you think the law sucks, then lobby to get it changed. You don't have a RIGHT to break the law just because you don't agree with it. What doesn't make sense to you makes sense to others. Who are not the final voice on what makes sense. The US already takes in more LEGAL immigrants than any other nation in the world.
It makes plenty of sense for a state to enforce immigration laws when those states have to pay for prison cells, hospital bills, schools, welfare, and deal with gang problems.
Why is it that every country in the world has a right to protect its borders and have immigration laws, but when the US does the same, then it's racist and Nazi?
"How about paying a decent salary and lowering your profit from $40M a year down to $25M a year!"
Why should he? It's his business. He BUILT it, not you...
you all talk about getting rid of illegals like it's going to solve the nation's financial problems,it's not.
think what it will do to prices in just about anything.I don't believe any of you are lining up to take Pancho's job moving lawns on a hot summer day.how come none of you complain when you go out to eat and pay $40 instead of $80 for your dinner or when you pay $2.99 for a pound of strawberries instead of $5.99 and so on.why not try to get rid of dangerous gang members who are here illegally in this country,they are the real problem because they are counter productive.
it's always easier to pick on those without a voice than to take on the government.I'm an immigrant and soon to be a proud citizen of this country but because of my accent and appearance I will never be consider an American,but I am. ironically I don't consider many of you to be true Americans.
so stop complaining because that's what losers,ignorant and lazy people do.don't get rid of the productive ones,learn to profit from them because they will never leave....
"There is an anti-American mentality prevalent in the business climate. The company should deported as well. If you don't want to hire Americans, then get the hell out of America."
Yup, if you don't buy all your grocery at the over-priced neighborhood 24-hr store, get the hell out of the neighborhood.
If you don't pay me the high wages that I demand, you are anti-American, and get the hell out of here. Nope, you don't have the right to pursuit of your own happiness, only I do and that will be at your expense!
(tongue firmly in cheek)
For those who believe te US has an obligation for an open border to anyone who is poor and honest, and they merit immigrating without qoing through the legal process of review and waiting their turn with those who do follow the law and wait for years to LEGALLY IMMIGRATE into the US, please remove your locks and open your doors to your own family residence so that the less affluent walking down your street can come in and raid your kitchen for food, take any of your clothes, sleep in your house and otherwise make your home their home without your consent...simply becouase you have more than they do.
That is exactly what occured in Russia in 1917 when the comunists took over, and occurs in Africa and other parts of the undeveloped world in chaos no one notices anymore.
A country without a border will not remain a country for very long, any more that your home would remain yours if you allowed anyone to use it and its contects unchecked.
"BULLSHIT!!!! How can it cost more?! No, more than likely the greedy fucking house builders will not only have to pay an honest wage but not rely on such heavy profits - consider this - who in the fuck built america before the brown cockroach invasion?"
That was long before so many people found "jobs" with the government. With the government printing up so much money for all sorts of constituents in the past four decades, what do you think would have happened to price for everything, without the import of goods and labor? The skyrocketing cost of healthcare and education should give you a hint, as they are not tradable goods and immigrant doctors and educators are relatively few.
"When caught and residence is verified, IF illegal, tattoo a red X on the forehead."
The Nazis only required a Star-of-David mark on the clothing, not the forehead . . . and guess what happend to the German citizens next after the bureacrats were given that kind of power to deal with an "outcast population" first?
Do to others only that which you wish to be done to yourself.
"You left out the fact that the house will also be better quality constrution and will not start falling apart before you even move in like the sh!tboxes that pass for houses in most exurb developments. I have seen movie sets that are sturdier than some of these dumps . . . let's just say I would not want to be in a mass produced house built in the boom years when the next earthquake hits SoCal."
Mass production of houses was pioneered by the Levitt company back in the late 1940's and early 1950's. They were even shoddier than today's McMansions. Houses built in the boomer years are often bad because demand of housing outstrip builders, and therefore builders don't have to follow high standards in order to make a sale. Guess what will happen when there are less construction companies with the labor gone? Less competition! Besides, when labor cost goes up, the builders would have to cut corners to meet market price requirement.
"Think of it this way: Your car needs its brakes repaired, the dealer wants $300, the guy who cuts your lawn says he can do it for $100. This is an IQ test. Guess which answer is chosen by an idiot."
So you are the idiot who always get your car fixed at the dealership? $300 for brakes? You must be driving some really shitty cars. The latest brake job I, well my wife as I was out of town, had at the dealership cost $945! Before that, Midas did my own car's brake job for $500. Two years before that, when I had more time and lived in a different town, I ordered parts online for $100, and had the local garage owner install them for me for $50/hr and it was only a one-hour job! So you are the one who not only do not shop around yourself (like my wife) but also advocating all independent shops should be outlawed?
"Thats because you can't cheat a legal worker out of wages because they are not afraid to report you to the state. This is a very common practice with illegal workers here. Arizona will be better off when these scumbag employers are forced out of business by the law."
I'm not a supporter of onerous red tapes, but if you are a supporter of labor regulations, should that be an argument for legalizing the laborers?
"Since when does any economy have to have illegals? Immigration Laws are necessary to ensure a nation's sovereignty. The world is not a 60's Hippie Commune. Mexico has some pretty harsh immigration laws, and its foolish to think anything would improve down there if illegal immigration from El Salvador or Honduras made labor EVEN LOWER PAYING THAN IT ALREADY IS south of the border."
Economy does not have to have illegals, because the distinction between "legal" and "illegal" only fragments the labor market make it less efficient. Do we want a set of laws that say that only men can hold these jobs and only women can hold those other jobs?
Immigration laws are certainly not necessary for maintaining "national sovereignty"; the US did not have immigration restrictions until the late 19th century. Frankly, I'm not even sure what "national sovereignty" means . . . that someone else on this side of the fence owns the money in your pocket? and your rental property too? That's what means when you can not spend your own money and rent your own property to the highest bidder.
Wings,
The men who own burger joints actually have to serve up good burgers to earn their keep; and they are out of business when someone else can serve up a better burger for less. The men who do the "catching" that you love so much on the other hand are hardly answerable to anyone; if you ask too many questions, they may catch you on something instead! BTW, the average burger join owner makes $30-40k a year and no pension, whereas the "catcher" typically makes $80-120k a year and full pension and benefits for his family! The "catchers" are the ones making healthcare, education and retirement unafforable to average Americans because the "catchers" get the fiat money off the government press before everyone else get the money trickled down.
If you prefer "catchers" to burger entreprenuers, communist China or communist any other country would be a fabulous place for you to live
Pedro,
I just love that national security angle that you bring up . . . hmm, since we are even more likely to be shot or run over by an Anglo- or German- American, why don't we ban everyone? or at least ban all cars and all guns?
We do not ban guns, cars, German-Americans and Anglo-Americans because banning any of the four would have severe consequences on our economy and liberty. Likewise, transforming our current free society to an ID-document-required society will have severe consequences on our individual liberty and freedom regardless whether each of us is illegal, legal, citizen or citizens who are on the terrorist-watch list (like some Senators, Congressmen and activists who are critical of the administration).
Jason,
You are onto something. However, wealth is not how much money one receives from the government, but how much real stuff and real service that a person can afford and enjoy with his income. A Mexican may only get paid $2/hr for picking strawberries where as it may take $20/hr to get an American into the field under the scortching sun! The American is not not 10 times as productive if they turn in the same amount of strawberries at the end of the day.
A social security couple may receive $3000 a month from the government; that doesn't mean they are producing goods equivalent to 1500hrs of strawberry picking. In fact, if the couple spend all their money on strawberries, someone had better spend 1500hrs picking the berries lest the price of strawberry go up dramaticly. Likewise, every single government bureacrat and law enforcement officer being paid in government wages have to be supported by multiple workers doing real work! There just isn't enough worker in this country to support giant warfare-welfare-redtape society that we have built up over the past four decades. That's why we have to import cheap labors . . . labors who by definition deliver more service per consumption (i.e. "cheap") than the previous market rate, so that the non-producers can be supported without ruining the lives of American producers.
How about we give all illegal immigrants a free pass for licensing or professioanl certifications required to perform a particular job. You think teachers, realtors and lawyers would embrace this plan?
"We don't need all those illegal immigrants. They were building a bunch of houses we didn't need either. They were doing a crappy job at it."
Housing industry attracted illegal immigrants in the past decade only because it was the leading growth industry. If all the positions had to be filled with Americans, the supply would have come online even more slowly, which means the price bubble would have been even bigger; when it bursts, all the laid off Americans in the industry, unlike illegal immigrants, would be on unemployment benefits at taxpayer expense. Illegal immigrants happen to be the most flexible pool of labor in the current market place.
"If you think the law sucks, then lobby to get it changed. You don't have a RIGHT to break the law just because you don't agree with it. What doesn't make sense to you makes sense to others."
That's why we have this discussion right? How many people are for the enforcement of blue laws? and laws banning husbands and wives having oral/anal sex? and jay-walking? Should all police cruisers on roads all the time and pull over all cars going 1mph over speed limit?
"It makes plenty of sense for a state to enforce immigration laws when those states have to pay for prison cells, hospital bills, schools, welfare, and deal with gang problems."
If the state thinks spending money cracking down on economic activities would somehow save money by driving out the "undesirables," then don't cry to the federal government for bailouts! Arizona politicians are lobbying hard for bailouts after running their own economy to the ground.
"Why is it that every country in the world has a right to protect its borders and have immigration laws, but when the US does the same, then it's racist and Nazi?"
In case it's not obvious, compared to the US, most other countries in the world are racist and fascist hell-holes that none of us would like to live. Did you miss Keith's blog on Tibet? While I'm do not support the race riot per se, there are idiots in China who advocate harsh crack down on Tibetans because China has an "anti-secession" law! Law is law, and have to be strictly enforced, right? Wrong!
Private Property . . .,
There is a fundamental difference between private property and public domain ("Public property" is a misnomer). Private property exclusively belongs to an individual, where as public domain is not own by anyone. Any idea of "collectely owned public property" only opens the door to collectivism, which can only be carried out at the expense of private property. For example, if you declare air as "public property" to be owned by the "public collectively," that line of logic can only lead to taxation on private citizen by the government. Likewise, if you declare borders and public land as "public property owned collectively by the people" instead of public domain that is open to anyone, what you end up with is government justification to tax and regulate at the expense of private citizens. A clear case in point regarding immigration would be the infringement of private holders of money to spend it on the best deal possible (as certain service providers are forcibly removed from the marketplace).
It's ironic that you should bring up the former USSR and post-colonial socialism in third-world countries. They all suffered from the inevitable economic devastation from the subjugation of private property while holding up "public property" as sacresanct. All those counries had severe paper document requirement on migrants, a big part of the red tapes that eventually strangled their economies.
jp,
In case it's not obvious, "professional licensing requirement" are essentially guild/union membership requirements. Lawyers, doctors and etc. would be a lot less expensive if there is no licensing requirement. Those are monopolistic positions supported by the productivity of the rest of the society.
Making the entire US economy into a unionshop with birthright union membership (that's essentially what immigration labor restriction is) would not make the economy more efficient or more prosperous.
Anyone should be able to travel and work anywhere they want to. If a job pops up in Spain that is perfect for me, I should be able to go there with no problem and start working. If the US needs cheap labor, a Mexican should be able to come here and work. I say let's get rid of all borders everywhere. Let's have a free market that spans the globe.
Ten to twelve years ago, when I'd get out shopping or whatever, overhearing any foreign language was such an oddity it would cause me to turn my head out of surprise. Nowadays I get out, and over 50% of the voices I hear around me are speaking Spanish. I hardly recognize my own area anymore, and I'm pretty much starting to feel like an outsider in my own country, as my surroundings keep descending into a creepy, impovershed third-world ambiance.
Discussions involving illegals' 'contributions' to the economy are pointless to me. I just know what I see around me. Like the graduating high-school student last year who got run down by two illegals making a getaway following their robbery of a quickie-mart. That happened three blocks away from me. Or, the mother and daughter who got similarly killed a few months later by a drunk illegal as they were coming home from some church event. No need to even get into the topics of how the schools and hospitals have gotten clogged up to the point of paralysis, or the people I know who have lost jobs since it's cheaper and easier to pay some illegal under the table.
All I can say to those who advocate open borders and the non-enforcement of our immigration laws, is that my hatred and disgust for you knows no depths. In my book, you're goddamned traitors, and a bullet in the forehead is too good for you.
Wings said:"How about paying a decent salary and lowering your profit from $40M a year down to $25M a year!"
-----------
When are you guys going to stop talking about greed as if it's some disease. Greed is not good or bad, it just is, like gravity. Why would he lower his profits from 40m to 25? Who would do that? Why don't you lower your salary from 80K to 70K? or to 40K. When you are selling a used car, you do not sell it for half of what you can get for it, you sell it for 100% of what you can get for it. Some of your comments are so fucking dumb it makes me cringe to read them. Another guy was saying that he lost his $10/hr job to a Mexican for $5/hr. If another human being can do the same thing you do for half the price, then you are overpaid. If you want to make that $10, then go learn something, specialize and then you will make more $. Some of you idiots are communists and don't even realize it.
Keith, it will be interesting to see what yout thoughts would be when they come to confiscate your gold and gunss because that's the new law. BTW, not reporting interest income from Swiss bank accounts is highly illegal.
Don't you worry about us; our money and gold are well preserved. Some HP'ers with brains (not so fast Ed and Frank) have been preparing for this meltdown for years.
Why would he lower his profits from 40m to 25? Who would do that?
Hmmm, perhaps TO COMPLY WITH AMERICAN LAWS which state very clearly that illegal aliens shouldn't be working in the US for peanuts, while depressing wages of LEGAL WORKERS who are looking for work?
So selling crack and heroine around high schools should be legal, too? What, according to you, greed is so good and laws don't matter, so why not selling crack, committing mortgage fraud, not getting car insurance?
"Lets hope others follow what Arizona is doing. I hear crime is way down there."
Who told you that bullsh*t?
Here is a grand idea. Lets get rid of the illegals and pay amercians to do the jobs instead. Hell, I'm sure busting your ass on a hot roof for $10 a hour, could teach a few things to the kids who work at McD's instead for $7 a hour.
as soon as illegals are made legal the first thing the hispanic organizations will start screaming for is a living wage, so no more cuts to the minimum wage and then another 50 million will come over to undercut thier newly legal cousins minimum wage. Companies were firing workers to replace them with illegal immigrants for which they had no legal obligation to report them or follow laws as they worked for them. Then the illegals didn't like how they were getting treated, they were illegal not worried about booting Americans out of a job and now they see how horrible some of those jobs were and they want finacial relief. They want compassion they want me (remember you booted me out of a job)to feel sorry for them. I JUST WANTED A BETTER LIFE FOR MY FAMILY. (Americans now repeat this saying like it the latest rock song, they just want a better life, please give me a break Mexico has said those same people won't do the same jobs in Mexico because they don't pay well) Well how can I give one to my family if I have no job I am American and I was born here. I can not think of a job that an American won't work if given a chance. The real reason companies claim Mexicans do what Americans won't is because they want to pay people 50 cent a day like they do in China and keep all the profits for themselves. It's pyschological and people begin to repeat what they hear not what they know. I say ADIOS to thier bad attitude, mean women, criminal children, separatist leanings, language, always pregnant with a baby in a stroller, taco trucks, taking over parks with massive parites, trying to make people feel sorry for them, thinking it is okay to be illegal because we are doing what you don't want to do lie, lie, lie. In one neighborhood in my town there is a vacant house for every 3 or 4th house how much you want to bet it was illegals trying to take over whole subdivisions so they can be next to each other and run everyone else out (to many kids too much spanish to many parties and mean teenage children)a whole community ruined. No one is willing to buy these houses if they could and if the NAR hadn't banked on illegals buying these houses we wouldn't be in a housing mess (a good percentage) we are suffering now.
Susana from Chicago said keep em here I can pay slaves to pamper me. That is the reason they came to pamper US citizens. Well with this coming depression even Susan will have to paint her own toe nails and that is a shame to ruin a country because you are to lazy to wipe her own ass.
GIVE TO YOUR FOOD BANKS BECAUSE THEY WILL NEED IT AND MAYBE YOU TOO.
If the violent and irresponsible elements among immigrants, instead of the prosperous and responsible ones, are congregating to your neighborhood, something is very wrong with your neighborhood. If that's the only neighborhood that you can afford to live in, perhaps it's time to look into ways to acquire new skills and improve your relative income level in the society. Among my four neighbors, two of them are immigrants whose native languages are not English. They are very well off and responsible people, living in $million homes and drive better cars than I do. Yes, some of the immigrant neighbors can be cheap, like taking care of their own lawns instead of hiring the professional landscapers like the typical American neuvo-riche, but that's no different from the oldest residents of this neighborhood who bought half a century ago and still take care of their own lawns to this day.
"In my book, you're goddamned traitors, and a bullet in the forehead is too good for you."
Well, that attitude may explain why the violent and irresponsible elements among immigrants are moving to your neighborhood.
You guys forget why illegals are here? It's cause NAFTA allowed subsidized US crops into Mexico at less than what it cost to produce those crops in Mexico. Hence, all the farmers lost their farms and jobs and came up here. If you want to solve the illegal alien problem, get rid of NAFTA and subsidies to farmers. Educate yourself. Please don't be a dumb, lazy American:
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/archive/05.29.04/0111fastfoodone.mp3
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/archive/05.29.04/0111fastfoodtwo.mp3
http://ftp.radio4all.net/pub/archive/05.29.04/0111fastfoodthree.mp3
This place is quickly turning into a white aryan nation blog. You bash the Chinese, you bash the Hispanics, you bash the Jews. Give it a rest man.
Move to that shithole called Mexico. There laws and human life mean nothing. dumbass. You should feel right at home.
Whatever the true count, builders across the country say illegal immigrants play an important role in a construction labor market that is already stretched thin.
I hope you starve to death you sleazebag realator/builder. Maybe you might be offed by an illegal on meth. Poetic justice.
Whatever the true count, builders across the country say illegal immigrants play an important role in a construction labor market that is already stretched thin.
I hope you starve to death you sleazebag realator/builder. Maybe you might be offed by an illegal on meth. Poetic justice.
"When I was 18 I lost a job because a border brother was willing to do it for almost half (I was only making $10 an hour). Adios"
I have an idea, why don't we make $20/hr the mandatory minimum wage; that must make the 18-yr olds twice as well off. Heck, why don't we make it $20,000/hr! We'd all be millionairs in three monts! woohoo!
Of course, when you try to spend that money buying anything, there won't be the cheap labor to give you anything either.
I am sure this idiot poster works in a field where he does not suffer from cut throat competition from illegal invaders. I am also sure he does not know econ 101. An insanely high minimum wage would do more harm than good.
Illegal labor benefits those who already own a biz. The young worker will never own a biz if he has to compete at 3rd world wages and labor conditions.
ed wrote:
"This place is quickly turning into a white aryan nation blog. You bash the Chinese, you bash the Hispanics, you bash the Jews. Give it a rest man."
Shut your stupid mouth -- self-righteous bastard!
"You guys forget why illegals are here? It's cause NAFTA allowed subsidized US crops into Mexico at less than what it cost to produce those crops in Mexico. Hence, all the farmers lost their farms and jobs and came up here. If you want to solve the illegal alien problem, get rid of NAFTA and subsidies to farmers. Educate yourself. Please don't be a dumb, lazy American:"
Don't make assumptions about my education, you dumbass!
I was against the piece of crap when Bush's father first proposed it in the early 90s. I was also against it when the "pro-middle-class" Democrat Bill Clinton oushed it through Congress against the will of pro labor groups. And don't forget the supporters of NAFTA claimed it would REDUCE illegal immigration!!
". If that's the only neighborhood that you can afford to live in, perhaps it's time to look into ways to acquire new skills and improve your relative income level in the society. "
I am skilled, dumbass! Try living in so-Cal when a home in an illegal alien infested neighborhood go for $400k. Your only alternative is to live in the upscale areas of Orange County or the west side of L.A. where homes start at $700k which is way too steep even on a $150k salary.
"They are very well off and responsible people, living in $million homes and drive better cars than I do. "
Yes, as we all know, the car you drive is always an indication of your financial status. Idiot!
"I can not think of a job that an American won't work if given a chance. The real reason companies claim Mexicans do what Americans won't is because they want to pay people 50 cent a day like they do in China and keep all the profits for themselves."
What do you mean by "if given a chance"? Actually giving the winning lottery number ahead of time? What a dumb idea. An chance in the market place is an opportunity to work and getting paid in the process, not an opportunity to rob someone just because you feel like you deserve their wealth. Your pay is only as high as someone else is willing to pay you; demanding any more than that through the use of violence (and threat there of, which "labor law" and regulation is) is robbery.
I have no idea how much workers in China are paid nowadays; it's getting hard to keep track of as their wages have been going up at 20% a year in recent years. In any case, whatever it is, the average savings rate among Chinese workers is over 60% of their income! Instead of sitting around and whining and demanding more government "protection," the Chinese workers actually work and save like our grand parents' generation and their parents did nearly a century ago! That was when America was built into a great country!
"I am sure this idiot poster works in a field where he does not suffer from cut throat competition from illegal invaders."
My industry faces plenty foreign competition, both legal and illegal, both US-based and directly from oveerseas. "Illegal invaders"? none that I'm aware of; none of my foreign competition is trying to take over the US local government where I live.
"I am also sure he does not know econ 101. An insanely high minimum wage would do more harm than good."
I was a Teaching Assistant for econ 101 and econ 102 to help me pay for grad school. My point was that high minimum wage, or any minimum wage law at all, do more harm than good.
"Illegal labor benefits those who already own a biz. The young worker will never own a biz if he has to compete at 3rd world wages and labor conditions."
That would be a good incentive to keep kids in school so they can acquire advanced specialization intead of dropping out of school early and join the work force unless they already have specialized skills. If a person drops out of school early and never has any specialized skills, then he doesn't deserve to have everyone else in the society to give him his own business as a gift. As simple as that. As a native English speaker, he already has a leg up on the immigrants; if he can leverage that into a business success story of his own, all the more power to him. However, it's proposterous to suggest that everyone else in the society should be taxed by a higher price for whatever service he does just so that he can be set for his life.
Anybody 'peaka 'panish?
"right on schedule, the illegals will go home"
The NAU is coming soon so going home means staying right where they are. Do some research people. Super highways are being built from Texas to Kansas.
This is the only plausible reason we don't enforce the border laws already on the books. Have you forgotten the 2 US border guards who got a sentance of 13 yrs for shooting an illegal Mexican drug dealer fleeing from the border? That is pure insanity to me and proof that there is something much bigger going on out there.
We need to go after the Americans that hired the illegals as nannies. In New York over 4 million have used illegals. So if you know anybody who hired them in the last 20 years. Make sure you turn them in.
The big house builders (Lenar, KB Homes, etc.) are to blame because they knowingly hired illegals over legal US citizens - who in many cases had better construction skills.
Now, we're stuck with poorly built houses, and the majority of the labor pool that created them are now going back across the border.
Over-priced shacks soon to be worthless as they just sit on the market, with no buyers in sight.
Harshly put, but very true.
This country was built on the hard labor of many immigrants, who assimilated into our culture by learning our language, following our laws and paying their taxes.
Many of the illegals coming over the border do none of these things.
They keep their own culture and force other (US citizens) to either deal with their culture or move-out; they rarely speak Englsh even when they know how to, and they send their money home, working under the table while not paying any taxes.
It's been nothing but a free ride for most of these illegals from the moment they set foot in this country - while the US tax payer foots the expense.
None of our politicians wants to address these issues seriously, but more-and-more US citizen are waking up now and tired of their rights and lively hoods being impacted negatively by these disrespectful illegals and greedy US businessman (crooks) who make it very appealing for illegals to keep pouring over our borders day by day.
Anonymous Said ...
BULLSHIT!!!! How can it cost more?! No, more than likely the greedy fucking house builders will not only have to pay an honest wage but not rely on such heavy profits - consider this - who in the fuck built america before the brown cockroach invasion?
Let me get this straight, the Mexicanos are leaving their own country of origin to work in the US, because they can't find good wages back home. However, if an American complains that it's not worth to a job for such low wages in the US, they're immediately called lazy, elitists, self-entitled snobs, etc. Why can't the Americans demand better wages to do a job in their own country and complain about unfair oversupply of cheap labor from abroad?
Please note that depressed wages aren't just restrained to the blue collar workforce, as we can see by the amount of HB1 visas being demanded by corporations, to replace good paying jobs in the tech and healthcare sectors.
Another thing that doesn't make any sense is that the illiterates from Third World countries want to tell Americans how to run their own country. Hey, if you couldn't fix your Third World country and is now seeking refuge in the US, what makes you think that we should listen to a failure like you?
Funny, the Third World failures who couldn't fix their own countries want now to impose on Americans, elect their failure counterparts for government, demand citizenships after breaking the laws.
Immigrants have no credibility whatsoever since they couldn't fix their own POS countries. All they did was escaping their own countries after they helped to destroy it by breeding like flies, supporting corruption, not studying, trashing the environment, increasing crime rate, electing crooks for office, etc.
Nobody should listen to illegals, as they have no track record or credibility to tell other countries what to do. If you illegals and immigrants are such hot sh!t as you proclaim, why don't you fix your own POS countries instead of telling Americans what to do?
Hey Mexicanos, don't you worry about our well-being regarding possible labor shortages, as you pathetically try to scare us with this illogical argument. All that the US has to do if that ever happens is calling people from anywhere in the world to fill the positions in a blink of an eye. We can even provide huge C-5 cargo jets to bring them.
We'll fill labor demands in a need basis only, not allowing a tsunami of strangers, without any background check, overflowing Home Depot parking lots and neighborhoods. Thanks about your concern, though. One more thing, tell your women to put a lock in that place so you can stop breeding like flies.
"This country was built on the hard labor of many immigrants, who assimilated into our culture by learning our language, following our laws and paying their taxes.
Many of the illegals coming over the border do none of these things."
Let's look at the details in your comparison. When the tidal wave of German, Irish and Italian immigrants came to the US in the late 19th century, there was no income tax (which was enacted in 1913) . . . nor payroll tax (which was enacted in 1933). What what taxes did they pay? Sales tax at point of sales (both the explicit state tax and the tariff that was built into the price of goods sold) and property tax (built into rent) when they pay rent. The folks who come over the border today still pay both. On top of that, whenever any illegal uses a fake social security number for jobs, they also volunteer payment into the social security system without ever being eligible for benefits.
When German, Irish and Italian immigrants arrived in the late 19th century, there was no quota or limit on how many of them could legally immigrate. All who arrived, including stow-aways who obviously got here by theft, were admitted right away, except for the extreme rare cases of commuicative diseases. Today's situation? there's not even 1/3 the legal quota for people who want to come to the US; the rest would have to either not come at all or come illegally. On top of that, back in the 19th century, the concept of "illegal immigrant" did not exist as a person in the US is in . . . whereas today there are all sorts of stipulations that a person can become "illegal" on immigration status even after legally entering the US. Is that the fault of the persons or the convoluted law-making? A comparable question would be: there was no income tax evasion in the late 19th century (there was no income tax), and in 1913 when income tax was introduced, the rate was only 1-7% and less than 1% of the population had to pay income tax at all; compared to today, almost everyone has to pay income tax, and the vast majority make mistakes of one kind or another in their filings. Has Americans become a race of chronic tax evaders and law breakers? Perhaps, but a far more realistic way of looking at it is that the law has become too complicated and too cumbersome, making full compliance unreasonable and unrealistic.
As for integration, yes, eventually the melting pot did a great job of integrating people as individual Americans (instead of ethnic identity). However, we also had "little Italy," "Pennsylvanian Dutch" (Deutcher, as in German), "little Greece" etc..
The problem we have today is the warfare-welfare state, not the individuals seeking to better their own lives. Making new government laws to get in the way of people's peaceful persuit of happiness is communistic, and ultimately counter-productive. A War on Immigrants is not going to be any more successful than War on Drugs or War on Poverty or War on Alcohol. The enforcement cost will have to be born by taxpayers, which will far outweigh any conceivable benefit from such enforcement. The draconian measures that will be necessary to track down and arrest indviduals based on their immigration status will also be abused and extended to draconian measures against the civil liberty of individual citizens.
"Why can't the Americans demand better wages to do a job in their own country and complain about unfair oversupply of cheap labor from abroad?"
Because it would be as silly as someone selling water by the side of the river and demand the government to ban rain. Any gain the water seller gets would have to come at the expense of water consumers! Plus a dead-weight loss, plus the cost of enforcement! Crop farming in Manhatten became financially unvialbe by the early 19th century because the Erie canal brought cheap food from the midwest. Local farmers had to find something more productive to do. Was it hardship on the farmers seeing their harvest drop in value on the local market? Heck yeah, but the city subsequently found much better use for the land and the people . . . even importing additional cheap labor from upstate thanks to the vibrant economy. That's how economies progress . . . finding better things to do instead of having the government taxing the new productive industries to protect the old non-productive ones.
Most third-world countries are poor precisely because they embraced that sort of protectionist policies and favored drastic government intervention in the past. If the US embrace similar policies, economic dislocaiton and poverty is sure to follow. Just look at Argentina and Zimbabwe: Argentina had a level of prosperity that was comparable to the US (excepting the coastal financial centers) and much better
than Western Europe half a century ago; protectionism and government nationalist socialist/fascist intervention ran that country to the ground. Zimbabwe, that country had a currency that was 1.5x as high as the US Dollar only 25 years ago; two decades of socialism, racial politics and government intervention to favor special interest groups at the expense of the free market have reduced their currency Z$ to 0.00000001 cent as the country is in the throes of 28000% annual inflation rate!
"Now, we're stuck with poorly built houses, and the majority of the labor pool that created them are now going back across the border."
As opposed to houses built with even cheaper material or even more over-priced? (the additional labor cost would have to come from somewhere) . . . and now we'd be stuck with millions of laid off American homebuilders collecting unemployment at taxpayer expense?
"Hey Mexicanos, don't you worry about our well-being regarding possible labor shortages . . ."
As an American, with a family to raise, I am however quite worried about the economic consequences and civil liberty ramifications of a War on Immigrants. Government enforced/sponsored mass migration is never cheap, despite what many wannabe totalitarian social engineers would like to think.
" One more thing, tell your women to put a lock in that place so you can stop breeding like flies."
I had no idea that white Anglo-American women and children are compared to flies nowadays.
"I am skilled, dumbass! Try living in so-Cal when a home in an illegal alien infested neighborhood go for $400k. Your only alternative is to live in the upscale areas of Orange County or the west side of L.A. where homes start at $700k which is way too steep even on a $150k salary. "
This is HousingPanic blog, right? What has Keith been teaching you for the last few years? Rent! The rent on a typical SoCal $700k house in a nice neighborhood is only $2000-2500 a month. Why hang onto a rotting neighborhood when you can rent in a much nicer area? If $2000/mo is beyond the housing budget, I wouldn't be calling anyone else names.
"Yes, as we all know, the car you drive is always an indication of your financial status. Idiot!"
These guys are debt-averse; they don't borrow, for cars, or for house (well, the house was a few years back, before the tax-assessed value went up to 1mil, but still $700k, entirely from selling previous house debt-free and additional cash savings!) Did I mention, they are frugal? they do their own lawns and wash their own cars . . . just like our grandparents used to do (comes to think of it, also debt-averse). LOL.
The US is already over extended, and over populated. Those who are here legally have the inherent right to close the door to further immigration. Non-citizens have no contstitutional rights on US soil. Please get over the rhetoric and arrest and deport criminals that are here illegally.
Sucks,
Are you going to pay for the cost of arresting and deporting? As someone who paid over $60k in income tax alone last year, I'm not the least bit interest in seeing a cent of it being wasted on stopping commerce and driving prices higher . . . any more than any of us would want cops to spend their time arresting and ticketing all J-walkers and 1mph-over speedsters.
Inherent right to exclude others? Are you confusing private property and public domain again? Those inside a public domain has no more right to exclude those outside the public domain than a plumber in town would have the right to exclude plumbers from the next town from working for residents in town. On the other hand, people do have the inherent right and ability to transact with those they want to; government and political interest groups may conjure up all sorts of barriers to get in the way of that, none of it will be productive. Whose money is it in your pocket anyway? Your own and to be spent as you wish, or is it "community resources" that can only be spent on communisticly government-approved venues?
So then, what group of people do you believe is most responsible for depressed wages, overrun schools and hospitals, overflowing prisons, defacing of property and gang violence in this country?
About when did we start seeing the statistics for all these start to climb? - I'm sure you have numbers for these as well.
Your facts don't hold up to what's happening in the world we live in today.
reality said...
"Why can't the Americans demand better wages to do a job in their own country and complain about unfair oversupply of cheap labor from abroad?"
Because it would be as silly as someone selling water by the side of the river and demand the government to ban rain. Any gain the water seller gets would have to come at the expense of water consumers! Plus a dead-weight loss, plus the cost of enforcement! Crop farming in Manhatten became financially unvialbe by the early 19th century because the Erie canal brought cheap food from the midwest. Local farmers had to find something more productive to do. Was it hardship on the farmers seeing their harvest drop in value on the local market? Heck yeah, but the city subsequently found much better use for the land and the people . . . even importing additional cheap labor from upstate thanks to the vibrant economy. That's how economies progress . . . finding better things to do instead of having the government taxing the new productive industries to protect the old non-productive ones.
Most third-world countries are poor precisely because they embraced that sort of protectionist policies and favored drastic government intervention in the past. If the US embrace similar policies, economic dislocaiton and poverty is sure to follow. Just look at Argentina and Zimbabwe: Argentina had a level of prosperity that was comparable to the US (excepting the coastal financial centers) and much better
than Western Europe half a century ago; protectionism and government nationalist socialist/fascist intervention ran that country to the ground. Zimbabwe, that country had a currency that was 1.5x as high as the US Dollar only 25 years ago; two decades of socialism, racial politics and government intervention to favor special interest groups at the expense of the free market have reduced their currency Z$ to 0.00000001 cent as the country is in the throes of 28000% annual inflation rate!
"So then, what group of people do you believe is most responsible for depressed wages, overrun schools and hospitals, overflowing prisons, defacing of property and gang violence in this country?"
Considering what day it was yesterday when you made the post, the answer should have been obvious: the answer is taxation and the expanding government.
Depressed wages? The wages, despite nominal increases over the decades, have been losing purchasing power because all the products and services in the market place have to be shared with government employees, whose jobs do not produce anything.
Overrun schools and hospitals? because government subsidized spending at those places. Haven't you noticed that college education has been going up in price just as quickly as medicine? Much quicker than practically anything else in the economy. Why? Obviously not because many rich hispanics are bidding up the college prices. The answer is government subsidy bidding up prices. Government subsidy in education and healthcare serves to transfer education and healthcare from two families who previously could afford it on their own to one family that is designated to be the target of "assistantce" and the family of the government official who is doing the re-allocation. The actual ratio is actually worse than that, as on average only 13 cents of each budget dollar for redistribution programs usually end up paying out to the target. So it's like taking from 8 families, give to one target family, and the other 7 to bureacratic paper pushers. The middle class quickly lose their ability to pay for anything that has to be produced or provided by legal labor in this country.
Overflowing prison? You have another government war to thank for that one: the war on drugs. It's just another war on the American people for the sake of expanding goverment.
Defacing property and gang violence? That's the natural consequences of War on Poverty (and War on drugs). When the government take resources from the free market place in the form of taxes, opportunity for employment is naturally reduced. The bureacrats can not provide opportunity or wealth to the poor as well as the free market place can . . . because bureacrats are consumers of resources too and they do not effectively compete against each other as bureacratic institutions always behave as local monopolies (in the name of not having overlapping jurisdictions).
Another "war," this time War on Immigrants, would just result in even more government spending, more taxes, and more poverty.
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