"I'm in a state of panic. How can I operate an association with one-third of the funds not coming in? It's a serious problem that's going to explode in the next few months."
- Norman Silverstein, Carriage Pointe (Boca Raton) homeowners association manager, where one out of every three homedebtors aren't paying their bills, and which just leveled a special $60,500 special assessment against the homedebtors that still can be found, April 2008
(update - hat-tip doom for the pic and check out her HOA post)
April 19, 2008
And now we have "HomedebtorsassociationPANIC"
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51 comments:
i have one thing to say keith...
oy vey....
It's Karma. Those a-hole HOAs got what's coming to them.
Super-sweet!
Bwwwahahahahah!
Wasn't there a Seinfeld episode about this?
Remember....HOA's always increase your property costs, er, sorry, I meant value!
HOA should be illegal - they are F**ktards and I hate them with every once of my body! When HOA are DOA I will dance on their grave!
Home Association fees are a form of organized crime anyway.
Let's tell the truth about Home association fees shall we? The extra charge is there to keep certain "undesirables" out. We all know what is meant by "undesirables".
Well, now the piper is coming for his due.
UM, IS THIS LIKE ALL THE PROPERTY TAX PAYERS IN A TOWN PAYING FOR THE HOMES AND LAND THAT THE BANKS AND FAILED FLIPPERS AREN'T PAYING FOR ON A LESSER SCALE???
DOPES!!!
Home Owners Association are a microcosm of Municipal governments. What is happening with HOAs is also happening to Municipal governments. A lot of real estate taxes are going unpaid due to foreclosure.
The slack is going to have to be taken up by responsible homeowners once again in the form of increased property taxes. Because, Lord knows, municipal governments aren't going to reduce their kick-backs, nepotism and graft.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/04/18/m1a_mansion_0418.html
This should make everyone feel better. Ben Bernake just bought Mr. Koch a nice house.
OOPS, I meant Mr.Thornton.
Am I confused, or wasn't Goldman Sachs just bailed out by the fed?
Mass world starvation and this guy still doesn't think he has enough of what it takes to get by.
OK a serious question here..Obviously nobody wants to pay a special assessment of $60,000 to pay for the maintennce costs of all the other units where the owners vanished or defaulted.
Am I correct in thinking that the 60k special assessments could happen again and again?
If you buy one of these units at a bargain price, could you still get shafted by the HOA special assessment? Could you also be forced to pay for teh costs to date already accrued?
Is this going to prevent bargain buyers from purchasing these houses at deep discounts- the impending liability for more special HOA assessments to cover the already-incurred costs of:
- the workers wages?
- bills due to vendors (i.e. the security company, landscaping company)
- community fees (i.e. trash / sewer)
Because that could forever discourage new buyers.
Are these things going to turn into liability sinkholes that nobody would dare enter into?.. and thus the plac will never recover even if the units sold at 80% off?
I mean, by any sane business model, if I were near bankruptcy, myself and my employees would have to take a pay cut, instead of borrowing more money.
But no, Mr. Thornton of Goldman Sachs buys himself an $81.5 million dollar house after the FED just gave his company 3 billion dollars...our dollars.
Point made I guess.
Just another day in Corruption Country.
- Norman Silverstein, Carriage Pointe (Boca Raton) homeowners association manager, where one out of every three homedebtors aren't paying their bills, and which just leveled a special $60,500 special assessment against the homedebtors that still can be found, April 2008
Oy, Norman, only a $60.5K assessment? You are a Real Genius.
Sadies is waiting to go to the early-bird dinner, don't forget the coupons, Normy or back to the kibbutz for you...
$60K 'special assessment': LOL!
I have always refused to buy a house that had a homeowners association. Here in oregon, newer, very nice neighborhoods without HOAs do exist, you just have to look hard for them.
Oh, Mr. Thornton is a FORMER Goldman Sachs employee. Kieth, just don't publish any of this stuff. I'm sure he is a nice person and deserves an $81 million dollar house...so what millions of people are having to eat mud because they can't afford rice any more. I mean...I mean...it's not his problem.
He's not a citizen of the world, just this country.
I don't know, chest pains are coming back...
New Business Model:
"BUY" a 'distressed' home with a F*cked HOA like Normans cited here.
Immediatly re-apprraise for maximum HELOC rape.
Take the HELOC money and RUN.
Never put up ANY cash of your own, not even .41 for a stamp.
HAve fun with the RealWhore in the process. Liquor in the front, Poker in the Rear...
Use Richard Nixons SS# on all sham forged documentshere it is:
567-68-0515
The system is there to be F*cked. Just ask George and Dick and Colin and Condi and Hank and......
America IS DEAD
russ dogg, you betcha they could get you with a "special assessment", over and over again. And possibly for any unpaid amount by the previous owner, depending on your state laws.
There are so many ways they can nail you with a "special assessment", you don't want to think about moving into a HOA development. Trust me on this.
Muni governments love HOA's, since they can outsource some of their functions (like zoning/neighborhood development, whatever they call it in your neck of the woods), yet still keep their share of property tax. That's why Gilbert, AZ has shot down any development for about the past ten years that didn't have a HOA.
*For any posters/lurkers thinking about buying a house there now or in the future....keep that in mind. Good luck trying to find a place there that doesn't have one. The same goes for any community in AZ, CA or FL that was out in the stix until about 15 years ago.*
Can't wait for the next coupla years to finally put the lie to that "HOA's improve property values" bullshit. Believe me, it's just starting.....heh heh heh!
Doom's recent post on HOAs, scary.
http://housingdoom.com/2008/04/16/hoa-without-homeowners/#more-1332
Yes, most cities love HOA's as they can defer costs, complaints, and enforecment. Now they will end up footing the bill inorder to prevent these communities from turning into ghettos.
which just leveled a special $60,500 special assessment against the homedebtors that still can be found, April 2008
----
HA! you would be a fool to pay that.
Paul E. Math said...
Home Owners Association are a microcosm of Municipal governments. What is happening with HOAs is also happening to Municipal governments. A lot of real estate taxes are going unpaid due to foreclosure.
The slack is going to have to be taken up by responsible homeowners once again in the form of increased property taxes. Because, Lord knows, municipal governments aren't going to reduce their kick-backs, nepotism and graft.
April 19, 2008 1:09 PM
+1
If you have a house and the HOA goes bankrupt, it seems like you would never have to join the new HOA if they tried to reform them. Even if the HOA doesn't go bankrupt, if they start not living up to their end of the contract such as keeping the common areas well-kept, you can probably get the contract nullified in court.
"HomeDEBTORS Association"
Love it
This is now the NUMBER ONE reason I will not buy a condo in San Diego for another few years, even though prices may be low - I know of at least 4 HOAs downtown that are broke or making special assessments to cover deadbeat homeodebtors.
Here is what the HOAs can expect:
I once lived under an HOA that had recently seized units for non-payment of dues (may not be legal or possible in all states).
The HOA then sold the block of units at 66% off -- not a typo -- to an outside "re-developer" who spruced them up with new carpet and appliances and resold them to new people. Even refurbished and of course, marked up, they were still 33% below their original price.
This was in 1994. Those units, built ten years before, did not regain their original 80s construction price until about 2000...sixteen YEARS. So much for "real estate always goes up."
The HOAs will need to slash budgets, offload as many responsibilities to individual owners as possible, and put a good local association lawyer on speed dial. A lot of these "communities" aren't going to make it.
And then there's hurricane season...
Looked at a home....more of a townhome, in a gated community with a small lake.
Very tightly packed together, built in the 80's, small units.
Prices vary from low to hi 600!
No yard at all.....
Homeowners monthly fee... $636
For what???????
Anonymous said...
Home Association fees are a form of organized crime anyway.
Let's tell the truth about Home association fees shall we? The extra charge is there to keep certain "undesirables" out. We all know what is meant by "undesirables".
Well, now the piper is coming for his due.
April 19, 2008 12:44 PM
No, I don't understand. What do you mean by "undesirables"? Do you mean drug dealers? Welfare Queens? Pedophiles? Criminals?
Let me guess you are voting for Obama.........
I would assume it is the HOAs that are only a few years old that are having problems. Are there any HOAs that are over 5 years old in trouble?
It should also be noted that HOA's are famous for
financial fraud and chicanery of all types. They operate more informally and with less oversight than even the corrupt local govs. The results - folks absconding with money, cozy deals and kickbacks from service firms, service firms have open or hidden ownership by relatives of the HOA big shots - every known type of local gov corruption also infests HOA's.
The only distinction between living in an apartment and living in an HOA development
is.
In an apartment you have 1 landlord.
In a HOA development you have many landlords.
After all why pay either rent or a mortgage when you can pay both a mortgage and HOA fees.
Double DOPES!
‘HOA development’ - infomercial..
For just a little more money you can get yourself a lot less freedom..
Woo hoo.
(Kinda like living in Europe)
Took a drive out to Stratland Estates featured in Housing Doom. It was worth the drive. From previous subdivisions when the builder was Sunwest, they seemed like nice enough homes. The common areas at Stratland Estates also seemed like they were nice at one time. However, it was in a state of advanced decay. The lake had a scum on top that shouted, "Get your West Nile virus here!"
I foresee this is how several half built subdivisions will look in the near future.
The weeded parking lot was spectacular. They posted selling hours, so either they are not keeping selling hours or the sales agents are too lazy or demoralized to get a weed whacker in their spare time.
During the drive around that and other half done subdivisions, I kept thinking "this used to be productive farm land."
No need to panic guys. McCain says it's all "psychological":
McCain says Economic Problems are Mostly Psychological
Hey good news mr. I didn't over extend myself and bought a house within my means! Since your neighbors were irresponsible scumbags you now get to pay for their share of the HOA fees! It's just too bad if this $60K charge wipes you out too.
DOPES! HOA'S ARE GREAT! THEY'VE RAISED THE RESALE PRICE OF EVERY HOME IVE EVER SOLD! DOPES! YOU ARE A BUNCH OF CHEAPIES! LET YOUR PROPERTY DETERIORATE BY TRYING TO SAVE A FEW BUCKS AND WHEN YOU SELL, YOU'LL THINK: "I WISH MY HOME UPKEEP WAS DONE BY AN HOA!" I WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF.
"No need to panic guys. McCain says it's all 'psychological'"
and "PsychOps" are what our military studies to death to get the sheeple to do its bidding via its invisible hand!
the scary part would be for everyone in america to simply stop consuming and go on strike, and become free! that would really scare the pants off of our controllers.
wonder why the votong at the associative meeting did not vote to evict anyone attempting th represent the association......or did the 60,000 do that
one third not paying and one third paying grudingly and two thirds is a voting majority??????????????????seems the "rich unconcerned" rule enforcers might think eviction via voting......................................for themselves
Condo "owners" are gonna get a big fucking when it comes to HOAs in the near future.
snicker.
No, I don't understand. What do you mean by "undesirables"? Do you mean drug dealers? Welfare Queens? Pedophiles? Criminals?
Sweetheart, if any of those social lepers can come up with the monthly payment for the HOA dues, they'll be welcomed with open arms and you damn well know it.
When I was young and dumber, I bought a condo from a hot blonde female real estate agent that gave me a special private showing. Later I discovered some old legal documents in a cupboard that showed the previous resident had fought a lawsuit against the HOA which was asking all "owners" to pay $15,000 each to replace the common roof. I sold very soon after that. I did not pay closing costs when buying or selling and I made a slight profit due to the steep speculation at the time. I will never buy a condo or any other property that is under and HOA again.
Just make the existing Home Owners mow the vacant houses weeds,or get foreclosed on tooooooo.
Vicious cycle.
DEATH TO HOA's!!
executive
legislative
judicial
HOA
good riddance.
Russ Dogg said:"Are these things going to turn into liability sinkholes that nobody would dare enter into?.. and thus the plac will never recover even if the units sold at 80% off?"
Yes, condo's and planned subdivisions will find any way to make everyone else pay for the dues on forclosures.
I have a story about special assesments...
A good friend's mother bought a condo in Danville (San Ramon "Country Club")back in 1997. She just retired in Dec. 07' and everything was fine, she had enough money to live on from her pension and SS...then last month every homeowner received a letter stating the brand new roofs which were done just 6 months prior were installed with the wrong building materials....the HOA says they have to REPLACE all the roofs in the entire community, AND each homeowner has to pay a $12,000 special assessment to the HOA. I assume the HOA can't go after the HOA either because it was their fault, or the contractor is out of business. What a mess!
My friends mom says she cant afford to pay this -(she refi'ed to remodel her kitchen 2 years ago), which is besides the point, but anyway she's planning to put her duet home on the market very soon. The only problem is...everyone else in the community are rushing to list their places as well. This assessment has to be disclosed to a potential buyer upfront, and granted, the 12k can come off the top of the selling price during negoiating, but if I were a potential buyer, I would be scared to death there will be "more special assessments" coming down in the future. the buyers.
Buyer beware.
In answer to 7:03PM April 19th regarding the "undesirables".
You must be kidding?
A. I'm not voting for Obama. In fact, I'm so disgusted at all potential candidate choices, 1 communist, 1 socialist, and 1 mummy that I will not go to the polls in the fall.
B. "Undesirables". Well, let me nicely define it this way: I once had a wealthy visitor from China who was seeking to purchase a home here. I took her to Church and during a prayer service she asked the congregation to pray about it. The leader, who lived in a nice HOA community in a 99.9 percent one-type of race suburban setting suggested that she purchase in an area "more suited" to her ethnic background. In other words, not in His area.
Now come on, don't be a blockhead, you know exactly what I am talking about!
I bought a condo years ago, and the sales person said that they had over 90% paying on-time their fees. After I moved in, the real rate was less than 50%.
Let me make simple for you:
IF YOU'RE STUPID ENOUGH TO GET INTO A HOA, YOU'RE A SHEEP WHO DESERVES TO GET FLEECED.
Those HOA boards are a cesspool of conmen doing all kinds of scams and kickback schemes with suppliers and contractors. Have you noticed how they love special assessments? Yep, the HOA conmen make a living out of those "special assessments". So pay up suckers.
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