March 22, 2008

MESSAGE TO THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: People who have mortgages are not "homeowners". They are "homedebtors" or "people with mortgages". GET IT RIGHT!!!


You can't bail out a "homeowner". They truly own their homes.

You can't assist a "homeowner" with a mortgage - they don't have mortgages.

You generally can't kick a "homeowner" out of their home - they own it.

"Homeowners" don't have toxic loans, and haven't been taken advantage of by unscrupulous mortgage brokers. Again, they own their homes.

Stop insulting true homeowners. Stop confusing owners with "debtors". And start doing a better f*cking job. You are failing America.

Peace out.

42 comments:

Dad said...

You writing "peace out" may be the funniest thing I've ever read. Do you have a shred of self-awareness? Go back to the basement. Mom wants it cleaned up before the guests come over for Easter.

lunatic fringe said...

I prefer the term "homeower".

Anonymous said...

Your right in your terminology, Keith. But that's why the bailout is going to be for Wall St., because they're sitting on the bad paper associated with the mess.

Kiss the dollar goodbye. $10 gas? $20 gas?

The irony is China used to ride bicycles and now are driving cars. Our economy has been so poorly supervized, our currency is going to be destroyed an we're all going to wind up riding bicycles.

Kanganomics said...

The irony is China used to ride bicycles and now are driving cars. Our economy has been so poorly supervized, our currency is going to be destroyed an we're all going to wind up riding bicycles.

That would be hilarious. You're in the market to buy a house, and the real estate agent doubles you around the neighbourhood on his BMX.

Then you pay cash for the property (because you already had 80k cash) and the agent gets 500 bucks for his trouble.

Here in Australia with interest rates continuing to climb, people are refinancing their mortgages to go interest-only because their payments are getting so high they can't afford to reduce the principle. Homeowners? Yeah right.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...


The irony is China used to ride bicycles and now are driving cars. Our economy has been so poorly supervized, our currency is going to be destroyed an we're all going to wind up riding bicycles.

Good. Joe6Pack and JaneZinfadel need to get their fat asses moving.

Anonymous said...

good points keith

Anonymous said...

.

It's like kind of being pregnant!

.

Anonymous said...

.



NO, it's the difference between 'expecting' and knocked up!


.

Anonymous said...

These future buyers will actually have to make a down payment, so they will have substantial capital at risk.
+++++++++++++++++

I live in a large mid west town. I have been an HPer for over a year now....well I have been an HPer before I knew about HP.

The wife and I put a bid on a house that we like the other day. I will be here for another 25 + yrs. I work for the town, so I HAVE to live inside the limits. The house is big and in a good hood. It is a failed flip that is now in foreclosure. The house is well with our conservative budget. And we have been saving most of our salary, since we rent very cheaply.

As we have gone thru the mortgage application process, we leaned some things. We always wanted to do a Zero Down loan. We understand if we buy now, no matter what kind of deal we could get, the house will be worth less next year and the year after that. We want to keep our cash for improvements for ourselves and any money sunk into a down payment will vanish with negative price growth.

Keith, et al: let me tell you guys if you don't know yet: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae will no loger conform loans that are greater than 97% LTV. Let that sink in. My mortgage guy is a prince, we have been friends for over 10 years now. As of Friday March 21st, the only 100% financing loan has since disappeared! Every lender he works with now requires atleast 5% down.

This is huge! The house we are looking at is asking $330,000. 5% down is more than $15,000! Think about it. You can't even think about buying that house unless you got $15,000 in your bank. Now, many HPers will say, so what? But ask around your office if anyone has $15,000 sitting around doing nothing. I doubt anyone one short of upper mgt does.

This is it. Game Over. Today it's 5%, tomorrow it's 10%. We are heading back to 20%+ d/p days and the greedy sellers don't even know.

Gary said...

How to get the public to buy into Saudi ownership of American Banks?

Bloomberg reportsRobert Rubin former US Treasury Secretary and currently chairman of Citigroup's executive committee, concering the rising level of home foreclosures, ``There is a strong need for urgent action, I would be very, very seriously considering the possibility of using public funds in one form or another.'

Citi has solvency problems. How distasteful for Americans, to think of using tax payers money for a bank bailout.
Why is Dick Cheney in Saudi Arabia? To talk them into lowering oil prices? I don't think so. He's trying to talk them into a major bailout of American banks, like Citi. How distasteful for Americans, to think that our banks could be owned by foriegners.
Robert Rubin's comments were calculated and meant for public consumption to generate an
adrenalin rush amongst tax payers. Given the choice, Americans would welcome Saudi funds instead of being taxed to fund a bailout.
This is how you get the American public to accept foriegn ownership of its banking system, threaten to tax them.
Don't think the Saudi's would want to do this. Why would they want to throw good dollars into the American banking sinkhole? Because they have no choice and that is what Cheney is explaining to them.
Cheney will let them know that holding their massive reserve of dollars will be financial suicide. This is because the Federal Reserve stands ready to print dollars in sufficient quantity needed to bailout the banks, and cause a huge drop in the value of their dollars.
So Cheney is explaining, to the Saudis, one of the capital systems tenants.
Capital should flow where capital is needed.
Like this comment? [yes] [no] (Score: 0 by 0)

amigauser said...

I prefer the term VOTER, as in the people who have a house with a mortgage, are the voting mjority in ALL elections.

Anonymous said...

Hey anon 4;30 how does it feel to know your 15k will gone in a month or so? Is that the price for "homeownership" these days?

Better hurry or you will be asked to waste 30k next time the down is ratcheted up.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone hear Cheney interviewed the other day by ABC with his I don't give a sh*t about what the American public thinks? Either he had a cold or he was exhibiting that enfeebled voice that old people get in their last years. I sure hope that his health isn't going into terminal decline.

Anonymous said...

I just love it when Keith and his minions of HP'ers get upset over people who had a great time during the Bubble Years. I bought a condo for 499K and before I even moved in the value appreciated and the value kept going up, up, up. I took out a HELOC loan right after another HELOC loan. I couldn't help it, the banks were begging me to take their money and I couldn't refuse. I bought my condo with 0% down and once I bought it, the appraised value was for 440K so instant equity. I bought a SUV for 30K, we went on vacations to Puerto Rico, Belize, London. I also bought a shit load of "stuff" from our local mall and through online websites. Now, we are fucked, because the value of my condo is probably 300K and I haven't made a mortgage payment in six months and in a few months, we will just mail in the keys. I had a great time, did you also have a great time HP'ers?

eric in vegas said...

"This is it. Game Over. Today it's 5%, tomorrow it's 10%. We are heading back to 20%+ d/p days and the greedy sellers don't even know."

This is why it's ridiculous for the government to try to prop up home values. They can't force banks to give 0% loans again and buyers aren't willing to part with tens of thousands (if they have it) for a down payment when they know home values will go down a lot more.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Better not let anyone in Scottsdale see this post. Their entire self-worth is dependent on the "homeowner" label. It's even more important to them than the H2 in the driveway. They'll all commit suicide if you call them out on it.

Anonymous said...

foreign ownership of the means of production led to the starvation and eviction of the irish from ireland known as the potato famine

speedingpullet said...

I wish they'd stop conflating 'Homes' with "Property".

happy homeowner in the stix said...

anon @ 4:30, wow....you have to put money down now! What a concept.

Hate to break it to you, but that's the way it always was until recently. Ask your mama and your daddy if you don't believe me.

Eric said...

My father's first house he had to put 20% down. That was $25K back 20 years ago. $15K in today's dollars is nothing.

Anonymous said...

The corrupt MSM can also call them, "Financial Slaves of Their Masters Arab, Zionist From Wall Street, and Chinese".

Anonymous said...

anon 4:30....does it say you have to BUY IN CITY LIMITS? use your head dummy and rent

Anonymous said...

actually, most are home co-owners. those who put nothing down are pure homedebtors, or nearly so.

Anonymous said...

Rent from a landlord or rent from a bank.

And whatever you do don't forget your local property tax(rent).

No one owns land.

Ever.

Anonymous said...

Debtors-in-possession, maybe?

...or...

Home-moaners?

Sub-prime snorkelers?

Anonymous said...

ARM-ed and dangerous: mortgagees that are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore...

Apollo said...

Keith,

I wish you'd talk about the fact that you can't just mail in the keys and walk away, like most home debtors believe.

Usually, 80% of the home loan is non-recourse (they can't come after you), but 20% is recourse (they can come after you).

So the dude who bought a 499K condo will still owe 100K. Additionally, the home equity loans are recourse. No free lunch.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

"I had a great time, did you also have a great time HP'ers?"

I sure did. I took the money that dope homedebtors wasted on mortgage, property tax, upkeep, HOA, etc., and started my business instead. Now at 35 I've been retired for over 4 years and will never have to work again.

You, according to your post, have f*cked your credit for life and have no money despite all the "stuff" you bought. Enjoy your life of slavery, sucker. I'll be enjoying my mid-morning walks on Crystal Cove beach while you sit in traffic and commute to work to pay your homedebtor mortgage for 30 years.

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Has anyone else noticed all the media stories lately about "zombie" debt where a loan you skipped out on years ago is purchased for pennies on the dollar, and the new owner of the debt sues and aggressively enforces a judgment against you?

Morons like anon 6:19 who think they got away with fraud by skipping out on their mortgages and HELOCs don't realize that as the banks realize they'll never collect, they sell the debt notes for pennies on the dollar to these brutal guys. Anon 6:19 will be sued and judgments will be issued (default or otherwise). Then the judgment creditor gets a writ of garnishment from your local authorities - usually the Sheriff - and they seize the money in your bank accounts. Then they come to your house and a deputy serves the writ and they clean you out, taking all your big screens, towing away your cars, seizing your jewelry, etc.

You're f*cked. You and all the other fraudsters. You got lucky and won't be going to jail but you can rest assured that the vultures buying your debt notes will make the rest of your life a living hell and pursue you to your grave.

And every time the notes are resold, the 7-year credit reporting limit gets reset, meaning you will have horrible credit for life. No more loans for you. All the while, I have great credit, even though I don't need it and don't use it since I can pay cash for stuff, all because I didn't allow myself to get tricked by realtwhores into "buying" like you did.

Peter T said...

Considered in the extreme, no homeowner owns as long as property taxes are due - miss them and you lose "your" house. I wouldn't go the extremes: Homeowners with 50% equity have a solid standing on their plot even in trying times. Where should the public draw the line between homeowners and aspiring homeowners, aka money renters? Traditionally 20% equity has been considered a prudent behavior, and someone with 20% down is in most locations still above water (unfortunately not in all, due to other peoples making smaller downpayments, leading to a bubble). All national census statistics should be modified with two columns instead of just one for title owners: separate homeowners with 20% equity or more and the others.

Anonymous said...

Paying off a home was the American way before the avent of the debt society .

New age lending promised low payments ,no equity pay down of principal ,but appreciation being the reward at the end of the tunnel .Make leverage work for you was the cattle-call of the real estate and loan business from 2000 to 2007.
While in the old days of lending a loan became more secure as time progressed , because of the pay down of the mortgage principal ,now it was a new world of adding on principal to loans and taking out all the equity .

Home ownership became a investment ,rather than just a place to live while you paid down the loan . Home ownership became the security for Wall Street to peddle investments for a global money supply to park itself .

If there ever was a God that talked ,Katrina was the symbol of houses under water .

Houses are tied to so many operations of the economy ,including property taxes ,that you just don't mess with housing .Bad bad Karma for Wall Street to mess with homes ,but they refuse to take their punishment and the Fed Chairman refuses to give the lenders the punishment .

Everybody is going to pay for the folly of the gamblers and the government and Wall Street boys would like the average citizen to believe that its in their best interest to pay for it .

If the money-changers get away with this tranfer of loss to the taxpayers ,it will be the beginning of the demise of America as we know it .

eric in vegas said...

"I had a great time, did you also have a great time HP'ers?"

Hell yeah. Saved a ton of money renting and I don't owe anyone for the shit I bought. Have fun getting credit!

Anonymous said...

If you truly wish to own your "home", buy a boat for cash and spend you time primarily in international waters. Under Admiralty Law you are both the owner, captain and a soveriegn lord unto your self when in such a jursidiction. You can repel trespassers with lethal force, and be fully potected under full faith and treaty as repelling pirates.

In other words, property ownership is merely a form of legal fiction, be it a house, or any other habitat one may select. I would rather be a sea gypsy on a three hundred grand sailing sloop than a stiff owned by the banks and the tax man.

Anonymous said...

OMG!!

YES-- We did see that Cheney interview with Martha Radatz, and our jaws absolutely Hit the F#$ing ground when he not only turned the question on her, but then said "SO"...when she asked for a second time what he thought that 2/3 of the American public thinks the war is a losing proposition.

My husband works in WA, and is absolutely convinced that there has never been a more evil, arrogant, disconnected VP in the history of this country.

The shit that will come out on the Bush admin in the coming years will be absolutely unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

HERALDO?? DAN??

Whatever happened to INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM IN AMERICA?!!!

I am like most people, completely outraged that our country is SO close to absolute financial ruin, and the mainstream media is still treating it like a fluff side story....afraid to ask the tough questions, and investigate how bad things are and how deep the probem goes.

Thank God for the blogs--Truly it is the only way that most people have had access to the truth and to reports of what is really happening out there.

Keep up the GREAT work Keith-- you have helped more people wake up and get their financial houses in order than you will ever know, including myself!!

Refuse to buy overpriced said...

Gary,

Absentee landlords who hate us for religious reasons is the only scenario worse than a bailout.

That is what ruined 18th century Ireland, and Saudis hate us more than the English ever hated the Irish.

I saw an analyst on TV talking about how we need rich foreigners to buy up our real estate. Just like we have illegal immigrants who do jobs Americans won't do, we need rich Arabs to buy investments Americans won't buy (according to him). Americans will do any type of work, if offered a living wage, and we will buy real estate when it is no longer overpriced.

Anonymous said...

This is huge! The house we are looking at is asking $330,000. 5% down is more than $15,000! Think about it. You can't even think about buying that house unless you got $15,000 in your bank. Now, many HPers will say, so what? But ask around your office if anyone has $15,000 sitting around doing nothing. I doubt anyone one short of upper mgt does.

Is this a joke? Do you really think most people don't have access to $15,000 cash? It's called savings and if you don't have it you sure as hell shouldn't be buying a $330,000 house.

Are most HPers this poor?

Anonymous said...

Orwellian terminology. I think Home Leasor would be more appropriate. But then the news media feeds us lies all the time. For example, they call buying common stock "investing," when in reality it is "gambling." American's do not own their cars any more, they lease them, so the same is becoming true for their houses.

Peter T said...

> And every time the notes are resold, the 7-year credit reporting limit gets reset, meaning you will have horrible credit for life. No more loans for you.

That is an interesting view. The only way out seems to be to seek bancruptcy protection, and with the new law, Good Luck with that. (Some zombie loan owners have even tried to collect after a bancruptcy, but got slapped on the wrist by a judge.)

formosan80 said...

Frank, you should do more research on credit law. It is illegal to restart the 7 year credit reporting of a late payment or default, even if the debt was sold. The 7 years starts from the last missed payment. Restarting the clock is known as "re-aging" and it is illegal. Many collection agents will "re-age" defaulted loans because most people do not realize their rights. Furthermore, most states have a Statute of Limitations on collecting debt. By the time the bottom-suckers purchase old debt for pennies on the dollar, the SOL has passed. Again, the collection companies use people's ignorance to get a payment. So for most FBs they will face the problems you mentioned. Unless they live in my state where wage garnishing is limited only to repaying debts to the government.

Anonymous said...

If I owe any amount of money on a car am I "happy car debtor"? If I have a student loan am I a "happy college debtor"? If I use a credit card to pay for groceries or gas am I now a "happy grocery debtor" or "happy gas debtor"?

Fanatically giving everyone the same label rather than acknowledging the full spectrum of similarities and differences can be the sign of a weak, scared mind, desperate to create order in the chaos of life.

corvinus said...

I vote for Lunatic Fringe's "HOMEOWER".