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A time capsule of the greatest financial mania in the history of mankind, told in real-time by regular folks and patriots. May future generations better understand the madness of crowds, and how power and money corrupt.
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46 comments:
I'M WATCHING CNN RIGHT NOW...
THEY'RE SAYING 9 MILLION AMERICANS ARE UPSIDE DOWN IN THEIR HOMES...
THEY'RE USING COMPARISON WORDS LIKE THE "GREAT DEPRESSION"...
THEY FINISHED WITH A CRYING FAT LADY PLEADING FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO "PLEASE HELP US PEOPLE THAT CAN'T AFFORD OUR (BIG) HOMES"...
DOPES!!!
Just watched the CNN live too - that MSM does a good job covering car crashes
They just said 30% of all mortgages in the US are expected to be upside down this year - didn't catch the source
Meanwhile, overspending on houses and crap while depending on housing as a retirement account, and seeing this negative savings rate, should make you all sick
And worried. Very, very worried.
I agree Keith but why save when interest rates are artificially low; and do not keep pace with inflation? Our Government wants us to spend money and count like it does; that way it seems "normal".
Burn Baby Burn
Speaking personally, I feel I would save more, if only my income would keep up with inflation in real terms. The decline in personal savings is almost, 1:1 a result of the decline in our real terms incomes. How can we save, when we need all we have just to survive?
I missed the CNN video. Anyone have a link?
Thanks.
Agreed 1,000%
Everyone only cares about instant gratification now, and think they all "deserve" the big house and luxury SUV regardless of their ability to pay for any of it.
This is why Obama is doing so well - the majority is now a bunch of entitlement-minded looters who simply vote for the guy promising the most free handouts.
I've seen similar graphs before... are your sure their methodology is correct? Some people have said these stats don't include 401k savings and other items. I'm not saying it's not valid, just not sure how accurate it is.
There was some good news - aparently money in 401 accounts is not counted in this "savings" figure. . .but I said, "there WAS some good news". . . Fidelity and other companies have reported a huge increase in withdrawals from 401 accounts starting in late 2007 and continuing. . .aparently "hardship" cases, or just plain taking the money and paying the fines. . .folks are going to be working till they drop. . .no retirement for spenders!! And yes, I AM an arrogant asshole because I saved and didn't buy the latest car/house/Iphone, etc.
I agree Keith but why save when interest rates are artificially low
It doesn't matter what rates are at. People won't save anymore. They want bling bling, spinner rims, and big houses. How many people do you know who drive old cars? Everyone wants to be Paris Hilton, jetsetting around the world and spending money like they have a trust fund. It's reality time now. The chickens ALWAYS come home to roost
WAAAH I can't live in a mansion on my pauper's wage WAAAH
that is amazing. we're about to have a kid and my wife will stay at home..wont be easy and we'll only be able to save 10% instead of the 50% we've been saving. i'm kinda freaking out about only saving 10%, that's only 6k a year, that is nothing!! at least our retirement will be fully funded. but how do these non-savers do it?
on the other hand, having savings right now does seem slightly pointless, cant put it in the market, who knows what that thing will do, and i'm making 3.5% taxed at about 30%. what's the point?
THEY FINISHED WITH A CRYING FAT LADY PLEADING FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO "PLEASE HELP US PEOPLE THAT CAN'T AFFORD OUR (BIG) HOMES"...
Isn't that America? A bunch of fat slobs demanding their entitlements. Once you're done robbing the responsible citizens through taxes, who are you going to rob next? The world won't fund your free healthcare and free McMansions. We're nearing $10 TRILLION in debt and the sheeple keep wanting more expensive social programs. We can cut the military spending down to zero and there still won't be enough to pay for free healthcare. Free college tuition will only keep students in college for longer as they won't be paying for their classes. When you pay $2000 for a class, you are more likely to attend and study hard. When some schmuck you don't know is paying for your classes, you can goof off, drop, and take it again with no harm done. Why do you think people who live on government housing fuck up their neighborhoods so bad?
I blame the cost of energy (too many people on this planet), cost of healthcare (too many frivilous lawsuits), and greedy investors all over the world who bought toxic loans and thus enabled excessive consumerism.
What's wrong with America is indicative of what's wrong with human beings all over the world. Mankind, simply put, licks balls.
When I get laid off my job I'd rather be holding on to $10,000 in depreciating dollars earning 2% than be holding on to $10,000 in 20% interest credit card debt.
I agree Keith but why save when interest rates are artificially low; and do not keep pace with inflation?
Yeah, me too I thought that the function of the government was to HELP us savers out too. But, this mess is proof positive that the money-savers of this country, are goners.
We're not going to get anything from this goverment by trying to save money. We're in an upside down world where the people that want to save money, are PENALIZED by the government. The government wants our money, because we're easy pickings. Plus, the government and it's right-hand, interest rate, chop-shop called the Fed, are now FULLY beholden to the fat cats on Wall Street. GIVE 'EM ANOTHER RATE CUT, BENNY!! BTW, THE LAST RATE CUTS THAT YOU GAVE DIDN'T DO SHIT FOR THIS ECONOMY, AND THE OTHER(S) WON'T EITHER!
But they want us to spend not save, I'm just doing what I'm told because I have no brain.
Obama's stated plan is to automatically withhold 3% from everyone's paycheck to be used for savings.
So, as usual, the left's approach is not to educate people and let them make their own decisions, but to force their hands in a Big Brother marxist government.
Obama's stated plan is to automatically withhold 3% from everyone's paycheck to be used for savings.
Then the government would look at that money and say, "We need to do something useful with all that cash that is just sitting there. Lets spend it; in fact, lets use it as leverage to spend 100x that amount. Yes!"
I'm quite certain the personal savings rate DOESN'T account for ones investment in mutual funds.
Although stocks are not a very good investment right now, they are technically savings.
I wonder who has an adjusted chart to take this into account?
Anyone? Thanks
I'd like to sympathize with Frank, but he's smart enough to know that most people are idiots who are biologically incapable of self-government.
If he would say that "it is sad that the minority of us who are capable have to enact laws to control the majority" I would agree, it IS sad.
It's like "jobs Americans won't do". I could care less what the average American slob does or does not want to do, their hind ends better be in the fields!
Saving is one of those jobs Americans won't do; you could make it optional, but isn't that what we have now? Insisting on this strategy is Pollyanna, because it won't be long before the majority of free idiots institute communism when the whole damn thing falls apart.
We force idiots to do the right thing for our (the minority's) own good. It's part of growing up.
The "savings rate" doesn't include 401k or IRA savings. People don't save enough, but they do save more than your chart indicates.
"Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...
Obama's stated plan is to automatically withhold 3% from everyone's paycheck to be used for savings."
Not a bad idea on the surface. However I can see where this leads in 10 years. Since I am "rich", they will take 5% of my income and give 2% of it to the "poor". In 20 years it will be 10% withholding with 8% of it to the "poor" and 2% for me. Hey wait, we already have this system, it's called Social Security.
The MESSIAH OBAMA strikes out once again.
The decline in personal savings is almost, 1:1 a result of the decline in our real terms incomes. How can we save, when we need all we have just to survive?
March 01, 2008 7:07 PM
Right on. During the 80s I worked for a steel fabricator. I saw how the industry was heading and got a degree and into healthcare. My friends who are still in the fabrication trade are making maybe 20% more in nominal dollars than I was 20 years ago while prices for everything have doubled. This is the result of profits being distributed much more heavily to the share holders, ceos etc. It used to be that if a company was making money everyone got an equitable share. Now it's keep your mouth shut, don't complain about your shitty wage and be happy we don't ship your job to China. The only way that this country is able to maintain the current standard of living is through borrowing to the hilt. Wages no longer keep up with prices.
frank...you continue to crack me up. The Republicans had total control. A President with huge approval ratings, both houses of Congress, the Supreme Court, the governorships of most of the powerful states....
And the result has been the most amazing destruction of the US morale, financial stability, and world standing. Oil has gone from $18 to $102. The dollar has tanked. The housing market has been destroyed. And we are headed towards another depression.
Yet every right winger says the same thing they hear on Limbaugh. The Democrats will do this and do that. God forbid the government gives money away to the poor and middle income people instead of big oil and the military industrial complex.....geez, that would be terrible!
Your clone on City Data Forum actually said the other day that we better elect a Republican so we don't anger the big oil companies and then they will really raise gas prices. Great logic! I cut off 9 of your toes and tell you that the next guy might cut off the last one....so now you should like me! You right wingers are a good for a laugh no doubt!
For goodness sakes, the games been lost, we could elect a frog and he could not make this disaster any worse.
Unfortunately it's true that no good deed ever goes unpunished. Those of us who have been sensible and provident, living well within our means and saving earnestly for our retirements are going to be asked to contribute to the salvation of the spendthrifts. The political power of the impoverished retiring baby-boomers will enable them to transfer much of our wealth into their pockets. You can expect tax rates to go through the roof and that your withdrawls from IRA's and 401k or 403b accounts will net you a pale shadow of what you had hoped for. Withdrawls from your Roth IRA's will begin to be taxed in some foxy escalating manner that will be initially opposed by too few people to stop it. Returns on savings and other investments will be taxed as never before so that you can share your well-being with the hoards of the less fortunate. Your Social Security income will be means tested to the point that those who saved nothing will get to eat their whole cake and a big chunk of yours too. It's a good thing we're a good Christian nation so we won't mind all this and will forgive all our "prodigal sons" and welcome all the financially downtrodden to our homes and into our economic arms with hugs, smiles, and open bank accounts.
Bankers don't get rich by Americans saving their dough. They'd rather have you as a debt slave. Wow, most of this country must br truly ignorant if they can't figure out that debt is a bad thing.
CNN Money: Williams Admits Great Depression Coming
http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=dR7h8NBQU3E
Link to CNN REPORT
Ahh, people here really aren't as savvy as the average American. The average American has known for quite a while that saving is just a complete waste of time. The average American is just as pissed at the government's give away to the banking system only they have enough awareness to take advantage of the situation by borrowing at unreal interest with full knowledge they'll never pay back the banks. Sure banks can charge me 35% interest for a few years, but once I get 300,000.00 of available credit I'll party like cray then claim bankruptcy. -- The judge is going to look at my 16.50/hr and just be besides himself trying to figure out how Bank of America, Chase and Citi could have been sooo stupid to issue me multiple credit cards with high limits...
You are either playing the game and winning or you're getting beat. -- That's not me personally, but an American winning the game. :)
Obama's stated plan is to automatically withhold 3% from everyone's paycheck to be used for savings.
Aren't they already doing that at almost 8% for the SS ponzi scheme?
Mark from San Diego, you and I would be good friends if we knew each other.
When the savings rate first hit the negative territory back in 2004, the financial geniuses told us not to worry because people could retire on their home equity, which was rising at 20% per annum.
Fidelity and other companies have reported a huge increase in withdrawals from 401 accounts starting in late 2007
my senator, norm coleman in minnesota, is telling people to take money out of their 401k's to pay their mortgages. of course coleman was a mayor and a senator (if I recall) so he'll be getting a nice pension while his constituents suffer.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I agree Keith but why save when interest rates are artificially low; and do not keep pace with inflation? Our Government wants us to spend money and count like it does; that way it seems "normal".
Burn Baby Burn
March 01, 2008 6:33 PM
=================================
Not only that. But then you get to pay taxes on the interest.
Kenduffelsniffenspotzen
George HW Bush made sure that people would put their money in 401K's, so that pension plans would vaporize.
Nothing like the sight of huge piles of cash reserves to bring out the creativity of the conservative politician.
As usual, the right's approach is to rape the poor and middle class by fooling them into thinking they can make their own decisions and then force the left to come in and try to salvage what's left.
Blogger Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...
Obama's stated plan is to automatically withhold 3% from everyone's paycheck to be used for savings.
So, as usual, the left's approach is not to educate people and let them make their own decisions, but to force their hands in a Big Brother marxist government.
March 01, 2008 10:22 PM
What about your so called "conservatives"? Bush and his Republican cohorts were the biggest spenders since FDR and that is EXCLUDING the spending for the war for "freedom" in Iraq.
The problem is both the left and right are bankrupting America. Now go back and listen to Rush Limbaugh Frank so you can blame everything on the left wing, Marxist, God hating Communists.
We Americans do not need to save. All we have to do is spend and have a good time. The rest of the world will continue to buy our government bonds, mortgage backed securities, credit card debt, etc...
As an American, I like this arrangement. The world can not afford to see the U.S. fail so they will continue to support our economy by buying dollars and our treasuries.
As long as the world buys our IOU's, Americans will be fine. But once the world wises up, then the game will be up and Americans will have to live within their means. The rest of the world will get tired of supporting American consumption. Now when will that happen? Time will only tell.
I only wish that was Cheney's heart chart.
"Aren't they already doing that at almost 8% for the SS ponzi scheme?"
Try 12.4%
oh.. am I soooo glad I sold my house in 2006 and set a record for the highest price/sqft in recent history: $660/sqft. Poor buyers.
it is clear it is trending down but isn't the savings rate (like other economic measurements) out of date? It doesn't include numbers that are relevant, like 401k savings?
Obama's stated plan is to automatically withhold 3% from everyone's paycheck to be used for savings.
--------------------------------
hey, wait a second, the government is taking 7% out for social security (plus another 7% from my employer). Seems like they are already saving 14% for me, right? right? Now they want to save another 3% for me? hmmmmmm I worry that they will end up spending that 3% too and leaving me an IOU.
Let's put the myth "low savings data doesn't include retirement accounts" to rest:
Only half of U.S. workers participate in employer-sponsored retirement plans, and 80 percent of small business employees have no plan at all. Nearly 40 percent of all households have no retirement savings accounts of any kind beyond Social Security. Half of the households headed by a worker aged 55 to 59 have $10,000 or less in a 401(k) or in an IRA. Of that age group, 36 percent have no 401(k) or IRA savings.
For single women, the problem is even worse. Only 38 percent have 401(k) plans from a past or current job, with a median balance of just $8,000, as opposed to married females, who participate at a 54 percent rate with a median balance of $27,000.
Nice, huh? And those are the same stupid women who are voting for Obama. Enjoy.
I've been saying for 5 years now that the average American is NOT going to be able to retire come 67. He will NOT have enough in his 401K to retire. This will become a news worthy event only when it starts happening.
Let's put the myth "low savings data doesn't include retirement accounts" to rest:
-------------------------
uh, so it does include 401k savings? I agree, i don't think retirement savings would make our savings rate positive. I was asking a simple question, does it or does it not include retirement savings? i don't know and apparently you don't either.
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