And to think, it all ties back to stupid f*cking houses. Who would have ever thought.
I sure hope we learned our lesson. This can't happen again. But in some shape or form, it probably will.
Bubbles and manias seem to be ingrained into human nature. Oh, the folly of man. 500 years from now, they'll be reading about this bubble and crash. And they'll all say - "stupid fools - what were they thinking?"
If something good comes of it, it'll be the death of the realtor profession as they know it. And also the end of no-down, no-doc, negative-am, interest-only liar's loan, mortgage-broker-on-commission bullsh*t.
January 24, 2008
Do you have any idea how much trouble the realtors, mortgage brokers, lenders, appraisers and mortgage fraudsters have gotten us into?
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16 comments:
Hey-
Is that a pic of the Brady Bunch house ?
That was where we all got our indoctrination for McMansions as children!
Remember how big that place was ( in the 60's anyhoo!)
I think it is the Brady House..
I have a really good Idea how much trouble we are in. Up until last week Zillow showed me only being $40K upside down in my house, suddenly Tuesday I am now $80K underwater.
There are 21 homes similar to mine in my neighborhood that are listed for half of what I paid ($240K) or less and they still aren't selling. The only sale is for a home exactly like mine on 1/3/08 and it sold for 5 figures, less than that what zillow says I am underwater for actually, $75K. It was purchased in 01/2006 for $187K, apparently REO when sold this last time. Prices here have rolled back to 1998 and are still going down.
I have tried to work out saving my home for over a year but, my imploded mortgage company is either stupid, inept, or unrealistic. In November they filed for foreclosure in the middle of our second modification attempt (the first one just disappeared, they have no knowledge of it.) I knew 1-1/2 years ago that resetting my ARM wasn't going to work. Back them they laughed out loud when I tried to talk about a modification.
I don't care, I just accepted a new job out of state, if they really want the house I guess they'll get it, good luck to them. I am hiring an atty for the sole purpose of making sure they don't try to stick me with a deficiency. The nice part is the atty found out so far that the mortgage broker got an additional $4200 kicked back from the lender on a YSP that was not documented on the TIL statement, it was hidden in an addendum in the back. So the slime ball got the $3200 we paid out of pocket and another $4200... out of our pocket again. I hope he rots in hell. Mortgage broker also fudged my income by 20% when it wasn't needed, he approved us for $600K when all I wanted was a $240K house (idiot). The best part is, I have no signed copies of the original docs, the lender doesn't either based on their filing, and atty says Title company folded 2 months ago, can't make contact with anyone. So It may turn out I have no mortgage anyway and have been renting this place for 4 years. WOO!
Atty is thinking RESPA suit, this is going to get interesting ;-P
wondering if I'll be $120K underwater by the time I move out next month....
In my situation I am a good 1-1/2 years ahead of the curve. My recession started in early 2006, so I have already been where ALLOT of people are headed soon.
All I can say is, hold onto to your family tightly, don't take yourself too seriously, and laugh.
Nothing else works, I have tried.
I say we document who the local players are now then turn the information over to the roving lynch mobs later.
This discussion makes no sense?
Realtors list homes for sale for what people want to sell the house for. They don't artificially make up inflated numbers. People buy houses for what they are willing to pay.
Mortgage Brokers provide money so people can buy the home they want to buy. Yes there were toxic loans, but those were on the most part at the demand of the American consumer. It was the Fat-Cat Wall Street investors who made the funny money available. The Mortgage Brokers didn't come up with that idea. They just provided the means so consumers could buy to excess.
Appraisers come up with a value based on similar sales in the area. One of the top criteria they use to establish value is what a seller is willing to sell for and a buyer is willing to pay. That is "Market Value". Once again, there were crooked appraisers. But they were a very small fraction.
This whole housing bubble mess boils down to greed-- investors greedy to make higher returns. People greedy to own a house that was truly beyond their means. Speculators greedy to flip houses for big profits without doing much.
Greed is good? For a while until you get spanked!
Hey that really is the Brady home.You mean even the Brady bunnch got Foreclosed?Alice was an HPer for sure.I see her workin it,Now She ,and Sam(god rest his soul) are in Hawaii spending all that money they saved from renting.
" MarkIFC said...
This discussion makes no sense?"
Correct. But then again, nothing in Amerika makes sense anymore.
Up is Down, Left is Right...
Alice in Wonderland -oops scratch that, make it: George and Ben in Wonderland...
You know... I just watched the "Devil's Advocate" last night again...
You have NO IDEA how weak or stupid people can be.
Of course, in the movie - Keanu plays a superhero who can resist the devil's temptations all the way to the end when he's being offered the world. Quite noble, but I think that about 99.91% of the rest of the population would have probably sold their soul for the check in the first scene.
The point is... people will always be weak... that's our imperfect nature as creatures. We should try to improve ourselves - but you can't expect everyone to succeed equally, just as you can't expect everyone to be an Einstein or a Nikola Tesla.
The problem however (unlike in previous eras) is that we have accepted evil (and those who do it)as being ok. It's OK to be greedy, it's OK to be vain and love yourself before anyone else. It's OK to be proud.
It's like opening the door a crack on a windy freezing winter's night. It's only a matter of time before the wind blows the door wide open and you start to freeze.
And so it goes on... it's OK to lie on your forms, it's OK to cheat people out of their money, it's OK to bomb innocent civilians to look for weapons which don't exist.
Believe it or not - this is why we invented religion. To provide at least a common standard by which all people who are part of the community can live their lives. A set of rules by which to live your life and be accepted by the community.
However - not all religions are equal. Today (as in the past) we are mostly worshipping the god of Mammon, and we see the results. Should anyone really be surprised by the results of such worship?
{/venting}
Makes perfect sense to me. This bubble, the last bubble, all the greed, these are just manifestations of the conservative revolution ushered in by Ronald Reagan. The credo of America was changed back then to "get as much as you can, all that you can and don't worry about the ethics or legality of how you get it". Money and things became the basis for living on the planet. And resistance was met with eye-rolling and accusations that one was a "loser".
And selfishness. Yes, selfishness became the foundation for the past couple of generations worldview. The Greater Good was derided as naively utopian, failed "socialism".
Now I hope the whole thing collapses and that the hordes burn the republicans from their foreclosed houses. Build them work camps in the desert, sterilize their children. Make sure their genetics don't propagate.
It's not house Keith, it was a home.
"Do you have any idea how much trouble the realtors, mortgage brokers, lenders, appraisers and mortgage fraudsters have gotten us into?"
------------------------
Um...Keith, I think you left somebody out.
Namely, the person who took out the toxic loan in the first place, and signed on the dotted line without having a grip on how he/she could pay it back.
-Mammoth
Mammoth - the "buyers" were the "mortgage fraudsters" in my rant
The rant about Ronald Reagan shows precisely how amusing it is that so many seemingly rational bubble bloggers turn out to also be starry-eyed leftists who want the government to take care of them from cradle to grave. (The same government, as Barry Goldwater put it, that they think is run by evil white guys.)
Tee hee.
This is not uncommon. Many of the same people who buy into bubble manias are perfectly rational and turn out to be good neighbors and workers otherwise. The difference between fundamental Christians and leftists is that the Christians express their faith in church and the left spouts theirs everywhere else.
About Reagan era "greed": The entire philosophy of the left is to scapegoat and rob some other group and then spread the wealth like some generous Robin Hood (while pocketing a few bucks (or more) for themselves.) Just view your money going to Halliburton as an "affirmative action". tee hee! Get it! Isn't life "unfair" when someone is shafting you rather than the other way around?
In the meantime, the housing bubble meltdown is going on in mostly blue stater metro regions and especially in California. Looks like there won't be money for commie programs for "equality" for certain special interest groups. Too bad, so sad! More than one bubble is popping!
Quote:
"
And they'll all say - "stupid fools - what were they thinking?"
"
Well, I do believe that most Americano are fools if not retarded. How retarded ? More retarded than a roasted snapper turtle.
anon @12:28,
"I knew 1-1/2 years ago that resetting my ARM wasn't going to work. Back them they laughed out loud when I tried to talk about a modification."
So why didn't you sell it 1-1/2 years ago when you realized you couldn't afford it?
Starting at least 40 years ago,
there was a stream of huge
gains for union steel, auto,
and other workers.
(How could that go on ?)
Starting over 30 years ago, I
would shake my head when the
balance of trade deficits were
announced. (How could it to on ?)
Each year, the test rankings for
students in industrialized nations
were noted deep in the newspaper,
and we were always near last.
(How could it go on ?)
Then budget deficits ballooned,
along with the accrued debt.
(How could this go on ?)
A long series of blunders, scandals, and failures kept
rolling into the news.
Answer: It can't go on. We might
be out of chances and do-overs.
So amazing to me....30 years gone by and Bob Dylan knew it first. This was called "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest".
Well, Frankie Lee and Judas Priest,
They were the best of friends.
So when Frankie Lee needed money one day,
Judas quickly pulled out a roll of tens
And placed them on a footstool
Just above the plotted plain,
Sayin', "Take your pick, Frankie Boy,
My loss will be your gain."
Well, Frankie Lee, he sat right down
And put his fingers to his chin,
But with the cold eyes of Judas on him,
His head began to spin.
"Would ya please not stare at me like that," he said,
"It's just my foolish pride,
But sometimes a man must be alone
And this is no place to hide."
Well, Judas, he just winked and said,
"All right, I'll leave you here,
But you'd better hurry up and choose
Which of those bills you want,
Before they all disappear."
"I'm gonna start my pickin' right now,
Just tell me where you'll be."
Judas pointed down the road
And said, "Eternity!"
"Eternity?" said Frankie Lee,
With a voice as cold as ice.
"That's right," said Judas Priest, "Eternity,
Though you might call it 'Paradise.'"
"I don't call it anything,"
Said Frankie Lee with a smile.
"All right," said Judas Priest,
"I'll see you after a while."
Well, Frankie Lee, he sat back down,
Feelin' low and mean,
When just then a passing stranger
Burst upon the scene,
Saying, "Are you Frankie Lee, the gambler,
Whose father is deceased?
Well, if you are,
There's a fellow callin' you down the road
And they say his name is Priest."
"Oh, yes, he is my friend,"
Said Frankie Lee in fright,
"I do recall him very well,
In fact, he just left my sight."
"Yes, that's the one," said the stranger,
As quiet as a mouse,
"Well, my message is, he's down the road,
Stranded in a house."
Well, Frankie Lee, he panicked,
He dropped ev'rything and ran
Until he came up to the spot
Where Judas Priest did stand.
"What kind of house is this," he said,
"Where I have come to roam?"
"It's not a house," said Judas Priest,
"It's not a house . . . it's a home."
Well, Frankie Lee, he trembled,
He soon lost all control
Over ev'rything which he had made
While the mission bells did toll.
He just stood there staring
At that big house as bright as any sun,
With four and twenty windows
And a woman's face in ev'ry one.
Well, up the stairs ran Frankie Lee
With a soulful, bounding leap,
And, foaming at the mouth,
He began to make his midnight creep.
For sixteen nights and days he raved,
But on the seventeenth he burst
Into the arms of Judas Priest,
Which is where he died of thirst.
No one tried to say a thing
When they took him out in jest,
Except, of course, the little neighbor boy
Who carried him to rest.
And he just walked along, alone,
With his guilt so well concealed,
And muttered underneath his breath,
"Nothing is revealed."
Well, the moral of the story,
The moral of this song,
Is simply that one should never be
Where one does not belong.
So when you see your neighbor carryin' somethin',
Help him with his load,
And don't go mistaking Paradise
For that home across the road.
I think I don't know much today, and maybe less tomorrow. I must say, I enjoy everyones comments....life is only entertainment from day to day, and every man dies...good or bad.
Thanks for entertaining me!!
Living the best of both worlds in the OC...Debt Free and Easy Choices (broke).
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