December 04, 2007

Rents crashing along with the US housing market


Here's the view from California. If you read anything from any idiot who says that rents will go up as the housing market crashes, just laugh.

Rents are going to tank over the next few years. Way too many houses. Desperate homedebtors who can't sell. A US recession. The illegals go home. Millions of job losses. And bubble sitters and bitter renters rejoice.

Unable or unwilling to sell their homes at declining prices, homeowners in Riverside and San Bernardino counties are converting them to rentals, glutting the market and causing rents to fall for the first time in years, according to Inland property managers.

Among the new landlords are investors who bought houses at peak prices and have watched their equity evaporate or homeowners who have relocated, leaving behind a house they can't sell.

There are so many Inland homes for sale, that even if no more come on the market, it will take more than two years to sell the houses available, according to the California Association of Realtors

"People who can't sell their homes have two choices," said John Denver, owner of Perris-based John Denver Realty. "They can stop payments and let them go back to the bank or rent them out."

"It is a good time to be a renter and a lousy time to become a landlord," said Denver. He said in the past six months, the average time it takes to rent out a house in Perris has lengthened from two or three weeks to two months. Rents have fallen about 5 percent. He said the average monthly rent has slipped to $1,100 in Perris.

Denver said today a $300,000 house purchased with a 7 percent down payment would likely require a monthly mortgage payment of $2,500. The same house, he said, can be rented for $1,300 a month, "and the owner has to do the repairs."

82 comments:

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Rents have steadily fallen here in Orange County since I moved. My lease is up in 2 months so it's going to be fun renegotiating the renewal :-)

Fortunately our landlords have owned this house for over 10 years (original owners) so they're in good shape and can afford a cut in the rent.

The average asking rent on this exact model house in our community is about $500 less than what we're paying ... LOL ... that's a serious drop for only one year.

Anonymous said...

So that 300,000 is really worth $130,000.

I'd buy it for $110,000.

stuckinthecity said...

But you are throwing your money away!!!!


sorry j/k

Eric said...

"Unable or unwilling to sell their homes at declining prices"

Well I can't just GIVE the home away! I deserve to at least be even when I sell the home.

Anonymous said...

Check out this fine piece of azz shack:
http://humboldt.craigslist.org/apa/495414754.html

How much is this baby "worth"???

Anonymous said...

$300,000 for a box in POS Perris Valley? You must be kidding me. Oh, good luck trying to find any low life in Perris Valley able to put together $21,000 (7%) for a down payment.

Perhaps all the dope head skydivers are going to buy all that crap, or the Hell's Angels bikers.

Anonymous said...

Hilarious! From the mortgage broker in the link you embedded:

"The shift in housing next year will put an upward pressure on rents, over the next five years, as the percentage of home ownership declines from its national high.

It is conceivable, in the transition markets of Southern California, Arizona, Nevada, and Florida, that rents could rise as much as 20%, in the next five years, as those former homeowners lease homes.

The long-term fundamentals of these markets still make sense. More people move to those locales than leave each year so steady population growth is on an investor's side."

Anonymous said...

Keith, you own Angelo Mozillo.

Anonymous said...

You own dopes too.

Anonymous said...

Rent dropping in NoVa/DC subs too, despite what the realtors will tell ya

Got my Flop-lord down 300 Monthly from what he WANTED for rent, plus we made him pay the 150.00 monthly HOA fee too. (It's a fancy gated community don't ya know...)

Can't wait to get bigger & better house next year for even cheaper !
:)

Anonymous said...

With 18 million vacant homes in the U.S., there's never been a better time to rent a home. Rent now or be priced out of the market forever. Suzanne said we can do this!

By the way, the 18 million vacant homes thing is true.

Anonymous said...

JUSTICE!!!

Anonymous said...

We are so screwed it isn't even funny. Paulson's ineptitude will make Browny look like a frekin genius.

Bushco a catagory 5 national disaster.

01/20/2009 end of an error!

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

Just a question for all the brilliant people on this post....

So, you putting any of that money you are saving on rent aside? Y'know, for a down payment when/if prices hit a reasonable (to you) level, or for any other purpose (education, business start-up, hell...even the wedding of your dreams)?

Probably.....not. Maybe for a month, or two, but after that....not so much.

Some of you guys are every bit as obnoxious as homeowners from a few years back who thought they were rocket scientists when their homes went up 10% or more in a year.

Anonymous said...

"Probably.....not. Maybe for a month, or two, but after that....not so much."

Don't you worry honey-
most of us on this blog sold in 05 or 06 & put our 200-500K in the bank.

My Interest is paying my rent :0)

Am I saving - hell yeah
I'll get the condo in Miami & the place in Colorado by the time this is all said & done (paid for)!

Oh yeah - I'll retire in my 50's too - that's the sweetest one of all!!!

az_mtb said...

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

So, you putting any of that money you are saving on rent aside?
.
.
Actually yes! We are saving so much by renting our house that I am able to pay off my 5 year auto loan in 2 years. My wife is able to pay down her MBA student loan (interest rates are obscene right now!) and we still have plenty of money left over to save up for our downpayment. We even have money left over for eating out, movies, etc. Which is more than I can say for a lot of my homedebtor friends right now!

We renewed our lease for a second year and the floplord didn't even mention raising the rent. I think they know how much they would lose if we moved out and they had to clean the house up and put it back on an already saturated rental market vs. just keeping us in there.

As for "throwing our money away" I have done the math on if we had bought it for what the floplord purchased it for new in '05 (assuming no appreciation) and we are basically being paid $800+ a month to rent it from them. Who knows, maybe they will sell it to us in a couple years as a short sale!

Renting in this market is great!

Boom2Bust.com said...

The local media have been saying that rents would be going up in the Chicagoland area too. Hard to believe considering the amount of for sale/for rent sign out on the parkways. Looked into it and found out the media was quoting the trade group for Chicago landlords. Think their might be a little bias there?

Anonymous said...

First we had desperate homedebtors now we have desperate landlords and desperate apartment complexes!

I'm so glad I'm renting!

Anonymous said...

$300000 home sale proceeds @ 5% = $15000 a year interest to put toward rent

Free housing is sweet especially when other schmucks are paying 40% of their income for shelter

raynla said...

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...
Just a question for all the brilliant people on this post....

So, you putting any of that money you are saving on rent aside? Y'know, for a down payment when/if prices hit a reasonable (to you) level, or for any other purpose (education, business start-up, hell...even the wedding of your dreams)?

Probably.....not. Maybe for a month, or two, but after that....not so much.

Some of you guys are every bit as obnoxious as homeowners from a few years back who thought they were rocket scientists when their homes went up 10% or more in a year.

___________________________________


Hey Mr. Stix,

Don't worry about us!

Worry about the kids that just took the boards off the home next door.

RayNLA

Anonymous said...

In Atlanta I don't see much of a decline in either rents of house prices. Both are quite low compared to California, Las Vegas, etc. So there's really not much lower to go. You can rent a great 2 bedroom apartment in a good complex, with pools, fitness rooms, etc for $750.

You can also buy a decent house in a non-ghetto (and yes not all of Atlanta is ghetto) for $250,000.

I can't see those prices getting any lower.

Anonymous said...

That guy is a REALTOR(tm), yet he was quoted in the media saying "It is a good time to be a renter".

I suspect an educational visit might be near in his future...

Anonymous said...

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

Just a question for all the brilliant people on this post....

So, you putting any of that money you are saving on rent aside? Y'know, for a down payment when/if prices hit a reasonable (to you) level, or for any other purpose (education, business start-up, hell...even the wedding of your dreams)?

=============

Happy: wedding of your dreams? This is such typical stupidity displayed by the likes of FBs.

I make $125K a year. My wife makes $75K a year. We got married last year. The total cost of the wedding (not including rings or honeymoon) was $7500. Nothing extravagant but nice. Only family and close friends. I didn't invited everyone I had known since I was 12. I wrote a check for it and didn't even think twice about where the money would come from.

On the other hand my wife's friend and her husband make $100K combined. They spent $75K (yes $75K not a typo) for their wedding also last year. Of that they personally spent $55K, their parents each gave them $10K. It was a "dream" wedding alright. 180 people, flowers made by so-and-so the dress designed by who-and-who, golf with the groom for the guys, some fancy-ass party with the bride for the girls, etc.

They financed the whole thing on CREDIT CARDS. On our honeymoon we went to Fiji for 2 weeks. They went to California for 4 days. About 6 months later we went to London for a week. About 6 months after that we went to St. Croix for a week. They haven't been on a trip since and are still paying off their "dream" wedding. I asked the couple if they'd like to go skiing with us this New Years. Nope, no money.

This is a $100K a year household I'm talking about and they can't afford a 4 day ski trip for crying out loud. But they had a "DREAM WEDDING". They had a big party that lasted for 5 hours and now they will be in debt for the next 10 years paying it off.

This notion of a dream wedding is like the "AMERICAN DREAM" of owning a home. It is bullshit perpetuated by the media and bought into by fools like you...and sadly my wife's friend.

I think it goes without saying....we rent, they "own". They both lease BMWs. I drive a 12 year old Honda. My wife drives a 7 year old Nissan. Our insurance and registration for both cars combined is less than what a new BMW lease costs a month.

Keith had that question up about % of income spent on housing. For us it is less than 10%. We live well, very well. We also have enough money in the "bank" that we could both take 2 years off from working and not give it a second thought. We are thinking of having children and when we do my wife will quit her job and stay at home. That is financial freedom, being able to make a lifestyle change like that and not worry about monetary impact.

So to answer your question: YES indeed I am saving up. Saving like a madman. And to be quite honest I don't know if I ever want to buy again. I like not having to worry about anything. When my pool pump gave out last month, I didn't call a repair guy, I called my landlord. When my fridge stopped working in the summer, same thing. I don't cut any grass, I don't rake leaves, I don't do any maintenance. I don't worry about pest control. I don't think oh no will my interest rate adjust or will my property tax increase. All I do is send a check once a month and go back to living my life.

That my friend is being HAPPY.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry Atlanta. If you guys keep having water problems you'll get plenty of deals on homes and apartments. Water rationing isn't exactly the most pleasant of situations. Hopefully ATL won't learn firsthand how unpleasant it is.

Anonymous said...

A few months back during the halcyon days of the boom, I posted a similar comment on the now defunct Washington Post's Real Estate Board (I can only assume that it was taken down at the behest of the REIC because the "chicken littles" were beginning to take over).

In any event, some homedebtor douchebag was railing about how rents needed to go up- this in a town where rents were already overpriced- and I indicated that all those condos going online and all those homes that cannot be sold will turn into rentals and lower prices. Of course, the douchebags asserted that all the foreclosures, which they said wouldn't happen to begin with, would end up taking rentals off the market thereby raising rents.

As of today, guess who is right?

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

RayNLA, there's no boarded up houses where I live. That's because I wasn't stupid enough to buy new construction, and I don't live somewhere that has/had trashed out "starter homes" on the market that cost 600k.

My development has four homes for sale, out of 70+. One person got sideways on the loan, yep. One other one is just hoping to get 50-60k above a reasonable asking price for their house....he can dream if he wants, I guess. The other two got transferred out of state. That's it. Not really crashing here....sorry!

Can't remember the last time I saw a cop out here. I think he was writing someone a speeding ticket for racing through the school zone. But that was months ago.

I'm not worried one blessed bit! But then again, I don't live anywhere near LAX, thank God! ;)

----

Anyway, congrats to the three of you who are saving some cash. Based on RayNLA's post, I guess he's not saving any of his cash....

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Don't worry Atlanta. If you guys keep having water problems you'll get plenty of deals on homes and apartments. Water rationing isn't exactly the most pleasant of situations. Hopefully ATL won't learn firsthand how unpleasant it is.

December 04, 2007 3:28 PM

====

It's so funny how the media is duping people about this drought. There is plenty of water. The shortage is a man made shortgae. Water is being diverted to Alabama and Florida. Soon enough it will be coming to Georgia.

Trust me, nobody is moving any time soon because of a water shortage. This is a CNN (based in surprise surpise Atlanta) story.

Stuck in So Pa said...

"Anonymous said...
In Atlanta I don't see much of a decline in either rents of house prices.....

I can't see those prices getting any lower."
----------------------------

Same here in Taxsylvania, here there has been no price run-up, no housing bubble. Remember people, not EVERYWHERE is Phoenix, Boston, or So Cal.
The credit/mortgage fraud that the housing bubble spawned HAS hit, however, noticeably! My 2 mile-long country road, lived here since 74, has two blighted, abandoned properties, and a third has just been abandoned and will soon join the first two (damned Balt/DC fliptards/FB's trying to import their housing inflation, didn't work). The last house has a sign from the foreclosure company stating that the home is definitely NOT for rent! Apparantly, the bank is going for the price that it "deserves."
The first two abandoned properties have owners that cannot be found, or even established (Ohio anyone!) so the zoning officer cannot even send violation notices out! I asked, he tried, and gave up after several failed attempts.

No denial here, however, small rural areas don't have a clue anyway. Zoning officer bragged that he could sell his house for twice its assessed value (assessed at 100%), TODAY! Oh, well!

I wonder how the blight problem is in Atlanta, or if there is one?

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

I got one word for the guy who spent $7500 for his wedding.....SPENDTHRIFT!!

I spent 5k total, including the rings and honeymoon three years ago. We even treated 25 people to dinner at a nice Italian place for our reception. It was cheaper than catering, the food was better, and everyone got what they wanted instead of rubber chicken.

I only put that in the post because there are plenty of people who still buy into the BS that they have to spend 20k or more for a wedding, like your goofy friends did. There's no real reason to, but if you must, for heaven's sake, don't do it on credit!

Look, renting doesn't work for everyone. I'm glad you can swing it. I have a family member with mobility problems, and I sincerely doubt a landlord is going to accommodate her, falling rents or no. I like the fact that we can change a bathroom and kitchen to suit her and her needs without having to beg someone to do it, and then get turned down.

And yeah, even with that, my mortgage is less than current rents.

So, who's the FB now, sweetie?

Anonymous said...

"So, you putting any of that money you are saving on rent aside?"

In past year, I have gone from essentially zero in savings to saving about 30K in cash, paying off about 10K in CC debt and putting another 5K down on a car.

I still have a ways to go.

Anonymous said...

I disagree.

The illegals will NEVER go home. WE are stuck with this human offal forever. Anything less than a cash bounty on their removal and they will be here forever sucking all systems dry and destroying all public services in their path.

I do however agree with your rental numbers. Figures do not lie. Liars figure... Based on 50 yrs of life in No. California rents have never 'plummeted' here through all the economic cycling no matter what utterly corrupt and incompetant has been President - even the Bushies.

We do have a class of people though to support our high rents with big brains and small d#cks who think they all will change the world with their wonderful technology. So, I will continue to charge these 'brilliant' people whatever I can get from them to rent my crappy stucco boxes bot on the cheap. If they don't like it, they can always buy, or failing that, go back under whatever rock they crawled out from under, or get more education to make them even smarter, maybe even able to buy something with a 2 hour one-way commute using no money down and an option-ARM loan(s). Yeah, that makes more sense. If they blow the mortgage, not to worry, Hillary will help them out.

$500,000 = 500,000. Any other figuring and you must be IN Real Estate...

Happy Depression!

anonymous wimps posting said...

Wait, didn't you declare that hyperinflation was the way of the future, Keith? Or have you backed off on that assessment?

Are declines in rent congruent with your call for high inflation, or are you saying that it is a special exception?

I happen to think that rents will go down, too. Part of an economy-wide discredit phase of the bubble popping, with maybe severe inflation later as they go absolutely crazy trying to re-inflate and then overshoot.

pennywise said...

Here in Bakersfield and the central valley, rent is stable. Its always been cheap, and it never ran up during the housing bubble, so there's not much room for it to go one way or the other.

Andrew Hac said...

Quote:
...This notion of a dream wedding is like the "AMERICAN DREAM" of owning a home.
...

American dream are a Stupid-Ass dream imagined by Dumb-Ass Hicks. I repeat: Home are not for every one or every family in the land of the Americano. If you are poor, don't buy a house. Stay in an apartment or a trailer. Don't dream. Go to work, work 2 jobs for 16 hours a day, during weekend go and sell in a flea market, then perhaps in 10 years your dream will come true. If you are lazy, incompetent, illiterate, ignorant, uneducated, obese, diabetic, sick, alcoholic then house is not for you and/or your family. Simple as that !!! Got it ???

Damn, this nation is full mostly of dumb-ass people...

brokersleaveyoubroke said...

Homeowner said:
Probably.....not. Maybe for a month, or two, but after that....not so much.

Actually I've saved enough to buy a house for cash now but I'll wait till I retire to buy my waterfront house at a big discount from todays prices.
And yes, some people on this blog tend to overdo the gloating at times but then again we got called a lot of names back in the early days of this blog.

Tyrone said...

Anon at 3:28 PM (1st 3:28)
Way to go!

And the Dream Wedding thing has gotten out of hand.

Yogsoggoth said...

Renting doesn't seem to be the answer for those poor folks who are renting from some moron who can no longer afford the mortgage payment.

Anonymous said...

I like the fact that we can change a bathroom and kitchen to suit her and her needs without having to beg someone to do it, and then get turned down.

--

Oh you can change a bathroom? Gee wiz how awesome. I can change the whole house if I want....by moving with 30 days notice.

And I did just that not too long ago. I used to rent a 3 bedroom home. I needed a 4th as I started working from home more and wanted a dedicated home office for myself. I gave the LL 30 days notice, found a new rental with 4 bedrooms and moved.

Total cost was about $1200 for the. I save $1200 by the 20th of the month every month in renting vs. what I would pay to buy the house I'm in.

And you know very well as with fashion trends quickly change. The brand new kitchen you spend $25K redoing will be seen as out of date within 5 years. Stainless steel appliances are already out of date.

Anonymous said...

There will be a bailout. The DemoRat Fascists retards are tripping over each other to save their constituents, the illiterate FB's and Wall St gangsters.

Veronica Lodge said...

RE: Rents are going to tank over the next few years. Way too many houses. Desperate homedebtors who can't sell.

While it's true that some renters will find low cost, stable rental units, others will not be so fortunate. They could end up renting a house that Suzanne researched.

As a renter, being presented with an eviction notice is no fun -- especially if you will be losing your cleaning deposit and advanced rent payments along with your home.

Renters will need to be very careful that they do not end up renting a FORCLOSURE.

V.L.

Anonymous said...

"I spent 5k total, including the rings and honeymoon three years ago. We even treated 25 people to dinner at a nice Italian place for our reception."


Your wife must be a hideous beast. I'm all for keeping costs down, but no self respecting hottie would marry a man who only spends $5K on a wedding including rings and honeymoon. Sorry man it just doesn't work that way.

Anonymous said...

>> Stainless steel appliances are already out of date.

F'n granite too! Next up: f'n big screen tv's.

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

Yeah, right...in order to modify a kitchen for a disabled person, you have to put in stainless steel appliances.....because regular white enameled ones just won't do. Riiiight.

It's more like lowering the counter heights, changing plumbing fixtures, installing grip bars and a tiled seat, and modifying a shower so someone can roll in instead of trying to get over a normal size tub wall, among other things. Maybe where you live, landlords are just *dying* to do all that for regular market rent. If so, tell me where that is....I'm curious to find out.

And read my comment again, if you please. What part of "my mortgage is less than current rents" isn't sinking in??

BTW, hope you never become disabled. It's obvious by your comments that you have no idea how it can make leading a normal life a challenge.

Crazed Opossum said...

I live in one of the most bubblicious Baltimore suburbs, where I had to endure for years the smugness and boasting of "overnight housing millionaires." Now, reality is starting to sink in and it's deeply grim -- prices are dropping, homes aren't selling, people are panicking, and rents have stagnated and started to drop ... they will drop even further as desperate property companies compete with desperate homeowners.

But.

Some people never learn.

The twist here is a new version of "it's different here" denial. And that goes by the name of BRAC, the base realignment that is supposed to bring thousands of new highly-paid workers to the area. So, all around, homeowners are getting gleeful again, saying things like "Ha! Once BRAC is here, I'll be able to get full price for my house," or "Thank God I can wait to sell a couple of years, then BRAC will be here and I'll clean up," even -- my favorite -- "I am going back into real estate once BRAC is here, I will make a killing!"

Never mind that we have gobs and gobs of inventory; that the newly arriving BRACers are NOT making the incomes necessary to buy overpriced $600K outhouses; that never mind that the fundamentals have been out of whack for about 10 years (our bubble started early), never mind all that, BRAC is the superhero that will save us. I've given up arguing it. When I try to say something, all I get is "OH you are always so negative, loser renter!!"
So, I have a feeling that reality still hasn't fully sunk in.

keith said...

Any renters out there negotiate a drop in your monthly rents? Even if you're in the middle of a lease, worth a shot - ask your landlord for a 10% decrease if you'll agree to extend another 12 months. Send him this post as proof rents are dropping

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

Your wife must be a hideous beast. I'm all for keeping costs down, but no self respecting hottie would marry a man who only spends $5K on a wedding including rings and honeymoon. Sorry man it just doesn't work that way.

Uh....gay marriage isn't legal in my state.

My husband thinks I'm pretty hot, though. I could care less if you agree with him or not.

Maybe you need to spend a lot of cash to get someone to marry you.....or maybe you just need to stop hanging out with superficial people.....

Anonymous said...

keith said...
Any renters out there negotiate a drop in your monthly rents?

Heck no - I want a bigger, new & better house at the end of this lease!!! Back to the floplord it goes! Onto the next one!

The house I rent now is pretty "stripped" (ie. no options or damn few)since it was a "flip" (that FLOPPED)
It can go back on the Market for another year just like it was before we rented it!

Should be able to get a nice McMansion for the same rent I pay now :0)
A happy renter w/ $$ in the Bank

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

So, you putting any of that money you are saving on rent aside? Y'know, for a down payment when/if prices hit a reasonable (to you) level, or for any other purpose (education, business start-up, hell...even the wedding of your dreams)?

Umm, yes ... what is it with you FB's trying to find any pathetic excuse to look down on renters??

When my rent is thousands less than what it would have cost to "buy" this McMansion, it's hard NOT to save a lot of money in the bank (unless one has a drug problem, I suppose).

gt said...

my rent did go up actually, 5%. he wanted 10% for 12 months, but thanks to you and seeing other rentals in our townhouse comm, we got him down to 5% for 8 months. not ideal, but the landlord has been pretty good at upgrading the place since we've moved in.

Anonymous said...

Any renters out there negotiate a drop in your monthly rents? Even if you're in the middle of a lease, worth a shot - ask your landlord for a 10% decrease if you'll agree to extend another 12 months.

Our landlord has called us wondering if we're going to renew and sounding nervous about it. Which means they know full well they'd be screwed if we moved out. So we're going to negotiate hard for a rent decrease.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to lower my rent. I want to move to a bigger place in a better hood for less money.

Anonymous said...

$7500 on a wedding? $5K including the RINGS???? I bet that beauty-queen wife of yours got a gorgeous .00001, "z" grade diamond. C'mon, what are you smoking??? Tightwads!!!

Anonymous said...

I hate weddings and granite will always be in. Quality doesn't fade.

I sold at peak and took a year off to live in Europe so my wife could care for her ailing mother. The equity I would have lost had we stayed will more than pay for a year in Europe. Not a bad trade, plus I get to take a year off and be a bum.

Nimesh Patel said...

In Chicago's northside, a lot of new condos are being rented out. A lot of people who tried selling away their condo, townhouse or single family house are renting it out. They all believe that "this is a temporary pause", "prices never go down and I just have to weather the storm", etc... The rental prices are going down here in Chicago and they will go down even further because a lot of new developments are still being constructed!

Anonymous said...

I have no lease. I am on a month to month. I had a 6 month lease initially after selling my home. I told my landlord that if he ever thought of increasing the rent, he should send me an eviction notice instead of the rent increase since I wasn't going to pay anymore. It has been 10 months since the original lease expired and I am still here paying the same.

So a 0% increase in 16 months is fine by me.

Anonymous said...

happy homey, your mortgage is lower than rent. so that means you bought pre-bubble or early on. well good for you. i did the same and sold.

here is where it gets good for me and bad for you.

my rent is now almost exactly what my PITI was, but guess what? i have $300K sitting earning 5.1% a year. That's the money I made selling at the peak. I bought for $300K and sold for a little over $600K. My rent is $1450 so the interest almost covers my rent.

your mortgage is coming out of your pocket **AND** you are losing money daily on the value of your house.

So let's recap:

ME: free housing, no depreciating asset to worry about and/or maintain

YOU: depreciating asset to woryy about and maintain **AND** no free housing

If you think that's a better deal, you go thinking so

Anonymous said...

I tried to negotiate at my old apt complex, but since TX overall is not especially bubblicious, they didn't go for it.

Then again, from 2001-2004, rents in ATX declined by 20%.

I relocated to a small town recently (job related), and was looking for a house to rent. I set up appts. with the usual suspects (locators, realtWHOREs, etc.)

My first appt was with the 'whore. Of course, he had so show me some POS new construction house for rent that was hundreds above what I had told him I was willing to pay.

His response, "you might be able to negotiate with the owner," who was none other than a "California investor."

I told the 'whore to his face "even if I could negotiate a better deal, I'll be damned if I pay one red cent to some greedy land speculator. Their kind has ruined housing affordability for the working men and women of Texas."

Needless to say, the 'whore was uncooperative after that.

I ended up finding a nice 3/2 in an older neighborhood for about $500 under market (private party,long term landlord).

Princess Mononoke said...

Anonymous said...
>> but no self respecting hottie would marry a man who only spends $5K on a wedding
December 04, 2007 5:50 PM

NOT true! I would take traveling the world over spending major dough on a wedding to impress family and friends...

Princess Mononoke said...

Hey Andrew Hac I actually missed seeing your post... You add a certain je ne sais quio :)

China is NOT so ANGELIC either!

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

frank, well, if you want to take that comment as a slam on you, go for it. I was just askin', since so many people here are bragging about how much money they saved by not owning. Most of the answers to that question didn't take it as a personal attack like you did.

But then again, I don't spend my time maintaining a blog about how the place I used to live in sucks....I'm too busy enjoying my current location to do something like that. You didn't like Arizona? Fine....move on, already, and stop posting about it! I mean, hell..how long has it been since you left, and you have a website dedicated to it still?

And you think I'm crazy for buying a house?

-------------

To the previous anon poster, yep, my ring doesn't have a diamond. It's a simple platinum band. Pardon me for not getting a blood diamond.

Princess Mononoke said...

Anonymous said...
>>Perhaps all the dope head skydivers are going to buy all that crap...
December 04, 2007 9:46 AM

I have to give a shout out to my skydiving buddies in Santa Barbara. Skydivers are the kindest, most genuine, down to earth people I have ever met.

Most of them abandoned their former careers as engineers, professors, etc. to become Jump Masters.

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

anon, no, you don't have free rent.

The people who have free rent on this blog are the ones with paid off mortgages, or the ones crashing with some kind soul who isn't charging them a thing. There's got to be a few of them on here (the paid off mortgage guys, I mean....anyone? anyone?)

If you are cutting a check to pay for the place you are living, no matter if the money comes from a savings account, trust fund, or the sweat of your brow, you don't have free rent. Free means you don't pay a damn cent. Ever. From any pot of cash. Got it?

Try again!

Happy Homeowner in the Stix said...

Princess Mononoke, you're a skydiver? Very cool!

My little brother used to do that (pre-kid, pre-marriage, you know the story....).

Don't know too many dopers who skydive. It's kind of contraindicated...... ;)

Westside Renter said...

Well the opposite is happening here in West LA. Rents are currently going through the roof!!! I spend $1800 a month on a P.O.S 2 bedroom that I have been in for 2 years. Those same 2 Bedrooms in my complex are now going for $2400, and when one becomes available it is rented within a day. It is absolutely insanity!!! You need to make over 85k a year just to rent a dump here in West LA. It seems to me that maybe eventually rental prices might decline, but for now they are skyrocketing. Also when we first moved into this complex it was all young professionals, now it is all full of families with 2 or 3 kids. What is happening around here is that people are bailing on their homes and becoming renters, so the demand is up and landlords are cashing in. It is really depressing. I have money to buy a house, but I need to wait for the fundamentals to return to sanity. And if I move to a nicer rental it is going to cost me an arm and a leg. So I am pretty much stuck in my place. I hope that eventually you are right Keith.

EVERYONE I know is feeling extremely squeezed right now. For example I was talking to one of my friends who is a lawyer for one of the big entertainment studios. He told me that when he was in Law School he felt a sense of security that he would never be poor. Now he feels poor because he can't afford even a condo out here, and renting a nicer place will set him back at least $3000 a month.

Another awesome development out here is you see Realtors holding open houses at apartment complexes. And guess what they are doing.... you got it... jacking up the Mother F-in prices so that they can get a commission!! I saw one of them in her ugly ass power suit standing outside an ugly pink apartment complex. This place was seriously probably built in the 70's and was pretty run down. She had her damn balloons and her open house sign and she wanted to rent out a 2 bedroom plus a loft for $3650!!! HAHAHAHAHA, pathetic!!!

Anonymous said...

hmmm, I own multi-unit complexes and I have been jacking rents up over the past 2 years while evicting the deadwood and I have vacancy that is less than 5% without having to offer move-in incentives. I am seeing more and more applicants who used to be "home owners".

The 5 years previous, when the bubble was expanding, were lean times for my complexes.

LovingLife91101 said...

My wife and I are newly married and living in Pasadena, CA. I'm 35 and she's 29. We've got good stable jobs. We work hard and we've made the conscious decision to rent rather than buy. We live a great place, and rent would be MUCH less than the mortgage.

Actually, I wanted to buy, but my wife convinced me to rent. As a kid, I did a TON of maintenance on my dad's house, and I love calling the landlord when there's problem.

And yes, I am saving like mad. We spent $7500 on my wife wedding ring and $40000 on our wedding. We still save about $70000 a year - about 35%.

Life is great and I will continue to rent!

Anonymous said...

"Well I can't just GIVE the home away! I deserve to at least be even when I sell the home."

Then keep your debt trap forever.

Anonymous said...

$7500 on a wedding? $5K including the RINGS???? I bet that beauty-queen wife of yours got a gorgeous .00001, "z" grade diamond. C'mon, what are you smoking??? Tightwads!!!

December 04, 2007 8:18 PM


=======================
Youre an idiot.

Anonymous said...

happy homeowner doesn't get it and never will. some people just can't be helped.

Anonymous said...

oh and happy living in a paid off home isnt free either you dolt...you are paying the money you could be getting renting the place out.

try again

Anonymous said...

So, you putting any of that money you are saving on rent aside? Y'know, for a down payment when/if prices hit a reasonable (to you) level, or for any other purpose (education, business start-up, hell...even the wedding of your dreams)?

Nope, I'm a veteran HP and I've been investing my huge savings of selling at peak + renting in:

- Emerging markets
- Precious metals
- Foreign currencies
- Foreign utilities
- Foreign properties in emerging markets (including small organic ranch)
- Commodities

Needless to say that my portfolio is on fire. My rent is only $900, my utility bill is $30, and my monthly gas bill is $60, and I live 10 minutes from work).

Meanwhile, you fools keep paying that horrendous mortgage + outrageous property taxes + ever increasing utility bills + torturing long commutes from burbs to work, etc. All that waste for an asset that you'll never own and that will lose value for many years to come. And watch out for natural disasters. Ouch!

Anonymous said...

Looked into it and found out the media was quoting the trade group for Chicago landlords. Think their might be a little bias there?

Totally. My landlord hasn't even mention raising the rent for 2 years in a roll. He just sends the renewal by mail, always with the same low amount to live oceanfront, afraid that we're going to renegotiate for a lower rent. The market is just f*cked for landlords, realtwhores, and homedebtors...just plain f*cked. Just wait until the pink slips start flying with the upcoming depression...

Anonymous said...

The illegals will NEVER go home. WE are stuck with this human offal forever. Anything less than a cash bounty on their removal and they will be here forever sucking all systems dry and destroying all public services in their path.

Wrong. I just read that thousands of illegals are leaving, according to a major newspaper. The most educated illegals are leaving because the amnesty bill collapsed, tougher immigration crackdwons, major dollar devaluation at their countries of origin (the dollar they wire transfer home doesn't buy much anymore), and lack of jobs due to our current recession.

Second wave of illegals to leave in droves will reach the more unueducated types, which are felling the housing bust and related lack of jobs in construction.

Just read another article about ICE deporting 400 illegals per month from Miami alone. They are using the 737-400 jet from the Marshalls. Here's the link:

http://tinyurl.com/2lwtr6

It's already happening.

Anonymous said...

Well the opposite is happening here in West LA. Rents are currently going through the roof!!! I spend $1800 a month on a P.O.S 2 bedroom that I have been in for 2 years.

Gotta love these people in LA who don't know how to play the system. When I lived in LA, I got a nice 1 bed + garage in the rent control area of Santa Monica. I used to pay a pathetic $450 to live three blocks from Ocean Avenue, and close to Wilshire. Then I got my friend into a spacious single in the same building for just $300 per month. Lots of suckers out there, I tell ya.

Anonymous said...

I have to give a shout out to my skydiving buddies in Santa Barbara. Skydivers are the kindest, most genuine, down to earth people I have ever met.

I'm the guy who made the initial comment. I've jumped myself and have a zillion close friends who are regular skydivers, pilots, hand gliders, etc. I've jumped in Perris Valley a few times. However, they are a bunch of broke who couldn't afford a $300k home.

Oh, and one more thing, the Golden Knights are the most arrogant people I've ever met.

PR said...

"What is happening around here is that people are bailing on their homes and becoming renters, so the demand is up and landlords are cashing in"

This is exactly what I would think would happen. The only way this wouldn't happen is if banks either foreclosed and sold to another LL who rented it out (which they apparently are reluctant to do lest they incur losses on their balance sheets) or if the original LL just stopped paying the mortgage, the bank didn't foreclose and the LL could just charge whatever they wanted.

I don't think the current situation is a good thing for anyone owner or renter.

Does anyone here rent from a bank instead of a private manager or owner?

Anonymous said...

The people who have free rent on this blog are the ones with paid off mortgages

Uh, no, tell that to Florida home owners who are getting killed by outrageous property taxes and syrocketing home insurance. No free lunch even if you own it out right.

Anonymous said...

NOT true! I would take traveling the world over spending major dough on a wedding to impress family and friends...

Finally a smart girl who understands value. No wonder, gotta be a HP.

Princess Mononoke said...

Anonymous said...
>>Oh, and one more thing, the Golden Knights are the most arrogant people I've ever met.
December 05, 2007 4:23 AM

I've never met them so I wouldn't know. Plus, I've never jumped in Perris Valley only Santa Barbara.

So I can only speak for the crew in Santa Barbara, they are pretty good people and loads of fun. I highly recommend everyone try skydiving at least once in their lifetime. It will remarkably change your perspective on life!

Princess Mononoke said...

Hey where is WestWest888??????

Come back we miss your input!!!!

Anonymous said...

Trust me, nobody is moving any time soon because of a water shortage. This is a CNN (based in surprise surpise Atlanta) story.

Oh yeah, the sheeple in this country really now how to foresee danger and measure risk. We can see that by the way they vote and invest "wisely".
Prepare the bucket, buddy, because Atlanta will become very thirsty. And I didn't see it on CNN, but read an extensive report on water shortage in America, by the most important authority in water management in the country. GA and Carolinas will run out of water in the next few years. Florida is at risk, too.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Trust me, nobody is moving any time soon because of a water shortage. This is a CNN (based in surprise surpise Atlanta) story.

Oh yeah, the sheeple in this country really now how to foresee danger and measure risk. We can see that by the way they vote and invest "wisely".
Prepare the bucket, buddy, because Atlanta will become very thirsty. And I didn't see it on CNN, but read an extensive report on water shortage in America, by the most important authority in water management in the country. GA and Carolinas will run out of water in the next few years. Florida is at risk, too.

December 05, 2007 12:40 PM

Its funny how we cant build new water projects like we did when we had NAWAPA program, but their is credit for strip malls, strip clubs, movie theatres and cheap housing .