November 02, 2007

Add it up HP'ers - what's your net worth

Post as anon this thread

Assets $_________

- Debt/Liabilities $________

= Net Worth $ ________

Don't forget about car loans, mortgages, credit cards, etc when looking at liabilities. And on the assets side make sure everything is "mark to market" priced like you had to sell it today. Unlike Countrywide's books ya know.

Bonus question: How does your Net Worth compare to two years ago? five years ago? Probably not something you've thought about recently, eh?


Anonymous said...

Assets: 470,000
Liabilities: 0
Net Worth: 470,000

(no house)

Anonymous said...

On the contrary, I calculate my net worth monthly (a habit picked up from my father)

As of Oct 31:

Assets: $206,033
Cash: 133,856
Stock: 29,543
Other 41,513

Liability (including Credit Card): $1120

Net Worth: $204,913

5 Yr Change: + $167,504

Mortgage: None
Debt other than Credit card: None

Anonymous said...

$525,000 home
$ 24,500 vehicle
$ 10,800 401K balance
$ 10,733 stock brokerage account
$ 5,000 Cash

$302,000 first mortgage
$ 17,000 HELOC balance
$ 18,333 vehicle loan
$ 0 credit cards

Net Worth:

Anonymous said...

Assets: 70,000
Liabilities: 10,000
Net Worth: 60,000

(no house)

Anonymous said...

Assets: $21,397.63
Liabilities: $6,530.62
Net: $14,867.01

Anonymous said...

Assets, DINK
--Non-retirement : 33k USD, 2k EUR, 3k AUD
--Retirement : 40k USD
Liabilities: 2k USD paid in full monthly
Net Worth: ~ 77k USD

Bernake Rat said...

Assets $50,000 (fairly liquid assets)

- Debt/Liabilities $ 10,000 (uncle Skam hates contractors)

= Net Worth $ 40,000

I might not be worth much at my age of 30, but I'm solvent and highly mobile...I'm on the deck of the Titanic ready to jump at any moment(and I have a dry suit and my own dingie, and a case of beer)

Anonymous said...

Assets : 1,200,000 (stocks Only intenational 40% and bonds 60%)
Home: 400,000
Liabilities: Nil

Anonymous said...

Assets: 98,566
Liabilities: 800
Networth: 97,766

(no house, bought my car with cash)

Anonymous said...

-home 70,000
-HD 18,000
-truck 10,000
-total 98,000

liabilities 70,000

net worth 28,000

Im 24 years old

Anonymous said...

Assets: $530,000
Liabilities: $80,000 (student loans at 2.2%)
Net Worth: $450,000

2 years ago: $240,000
5 years ago: $110,000

2 years from now $1,000,000
5 years from now $2,000,000

geeski said...

balanced (MTM) daily.

assets: $1,255,960.20
liabilities: $640,044.18

net worth: $615,916.02

Anonymous said...

*House Worth = $625,000 (deducted ~12% of last apraised price)
*Investments including retirement accounts = 435,000
*Cash = $50,000 in ING account
*2 cars, both less then 1.5 years old, but I don't count cars as an asset....They do count as a liability if you finance or lease them.

*Mortgage = $345,000
*Appliance Loan-- $4,000 left...0% finance for 18 months
*No car loans
*No CC debt

Total = ~$761,000

keith said...

Think how bad the typical family's net worth will fall in the 2007 Fed survey, if they mark to market housing "wealth"

Also, the poor are getting poorer, the rich getting richer. Just like George Bush wants.

From the Fed report:

Median family net worth generally stagnated or declined for the bottom 40 percent of the population throughout the period. The drop in the second quintile in particular is astonishing—over 17 percent from 1995 to 2004, and over 13 percent from 2001 to 2004.

For a substantial section of the population, median net worth is negative; that is, their debts outweigh their assets. The mean net worth for the bottom 25 percent of the population as measured by net worth (rather than income, as in the figures above) in 2004 was -$1,400, down from $0 in 2001, and closer to the figure of -$2,100 in 1998.

Anonymous said...

I respectfully submit that the value of ones home for purposes of the calculation is called into question given the current environment.

Cow_tipping said...

Assets - $50K (vehicles and equity in slowly dropping house included) Some of which is contra to the dollar.
Liablities $120K (Outstanding house loan) all in dollars, which as we know is droppping like a rock.

Chris said...

House: 1 Million dollars
Car: 70,000 Dollars
Savings: 250,000 dollars

Lying about your net worth on Housing << PRICELESS >>

Anonymous said...

Assets - $350K
Liabilities - $450K
Net Worth - ($100K)

The fact that the government is in a worse boat than me is the reason I am hopeful that policies will be enacted that make my position tolerable.

Anonymous said...

Home: $250,000 Paid For
Cars: '0' Paid for,depreciating assets anyway
Bank:$47,000.Funny Money$25,000 IRA/CD's
Diversified portfolio :$430000 EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE,Spread out over EVERYTHING, even 'gasp' real estate.
Life insurance $180,000.Paid up for life, doesn't help me, but good for the little woman
Liability: everything on credit cards for the rebates:$1500/mo

Net change in 5 years, $150,000+

Anonymous said...

Assets as of yesterday
401k - $22.5K (%85 vested)
Stocks - $7.5K

CC - $3K
Student loan - $13K (at 4.75%)

Net Worth - $10.6K

borkafatty said...

$1 U.S Dollar, and I owe no one nothing.

Good day sir.

Anonymous said...

28K cash
33K 401K/IRA
17K car (bought used)

-58K student loans
-10K left on car
-6k credit card

a bit above even-

potterzot said...

car: $2000
computer: $300
Retirement and Savings: $2000

Student Loans: $14,000

Net Worth: ~($10,000)

Anonymous said...

At the age of 29, as of Nov 1, 2007:

Assets: $452,344
Liabilities: $233,772
Net Worth: $218,572

January 1, 2003 (when I started my post-college career and started tracking net worth):
Assets: $18,552
Liabilities: $19,800
Net Worth: $-1,248

Anonymous said...

IRA: $212,275
401K: $26,183
Stock: $105,116
HSBC Savings: $2,008
Checking: $2,832
Car (KBB): $8,415
Other Assets: @$40,000

TOTAL: $396,829

Zero debt.

I am 40, married, 1 child. $90K household income. Rent a house. Net worth has nearly trippled in last 2 years. Selling house in mid-2006 was our best/luckiest financial move ever. AAPL stock has also been very good to me.

I feel we are in a decent financial position, but we still struggle month-to-month, and don't feel like we are saving enough for a totally secure retirement.

Anonymous said...

$370,000 home (very conservative estimate)
$400,000 cash/investments

$180,000 mortgage (5.75% fixed)
$80,000 other loans (no interest)
Zero balance credit cards, no car loan

Net: $510,000+

Anonymous said...

$425,000 cash ING direct
$ 50,000 cash checking account (too lazy to xfer)
$300,000 in 401k, roth and some after tax funds (have to pay tax so discount net worth)
$200,000 condo I own in full (very conservative valuation)
$40,000 Ameritrade stock portfolio
Company car: BMW

Liabilities: $100 (donation to Ron Paul coming up on 5th Nov)

Net worth: $1,014,900 less tax liability on 401K

Age 34 and just married, no kidz. So fucking what - I'm still a middle class wage slave. Thanks Ben (dover)!

Anonymous said...

Sorry, anon again. (so fucking what guy), forgot to mention:

last 2 years NW: $400K

Last 5 years NW: $120K

Means an upward trend. Could it be hyperinflation? Love ur blog Keith!

Anonymous said...

180k Retirement
70k Cash
20k Car


Net Worth:

Anonymous said...

Stock: 119,000
Cd's: 125,000
401k: 217,000
Cash: 36,000

Auto 21,000
Home 0 I'm a stinking renter.

Goldie said...

Assets: $3,100,000
Liabilities: 450,000
Net Worth: $2,650,000

2 years ago: $900,000
5 years ago: $220,000

2 years from now $5,000,000
5 years from now $6,000,000

Anonymous said...

Home: $650,000
Vehicles: $17,000
Other Durables: $4,000
CD’s: $173,000
Cash: $49,000

No liabilities except monthly bills and
yearly property tax, insurance etc.

Net: $893,000

And as someone else stated, my wife and I
sit down at the end of each month and look
at our budget. Done that for 30 years.

Anonymous said...

Current Age: 27
Assets: $50,000 ($43,000 cash)
Liabilities: $0

Net: $50,000

At age 22 (roughly)...
Assets: $3,000 (all cash)
Liabilities: $40,000

Net: -$37,000

Anonymous said...

Stocks & Bonds = $1.2 M
Cash = $25 K
Car Loan = $40K
No House
No worries = priceless
Net Worth = $1.185 M

"Bitter Renter", yeah right, laughing all the way to the bank at 39 years old and will be set to retire at 54!

Anonymous said...

How much is yer Net Worth?:
Assets $_________
$50K in bank (just sold rental property this week and paid off mortgage on my residence. This is what is left over and obviously needs to be invested somewhere).
$3K in CD
$100 in 401k
$8K in Gold
2 Classic Automobiles worth $15K
$424K in Home

- Debt/Liabilities $0

= Net Worth $ $600K
No, I am not able to retire yet!

Anonymous said...

Live in Europe. The funny thing being that, by US standars, our (me and my wife) would be nothing special. But our neck of woods, and we do not live in the UK etc. but elsewhere, is far less consumption oriented than the US, where I have also lived. Thus, we save quite a bit by still maintaining a nice life and travelling etc.


house 450.000
summerplace and other real estate 150.000
car 10.000
cash 60.000
other 15.000 (art etc.)
ltotal 685.000

liabilities mortgage for the house 60.000

net worth 625.000
Age 33, started accumulating wealth about 8 years ago

Anonymous said...

Brokerage: 1,100k
(oil + uranium = $350k)
retirement: 200k
house equity, at 2003 prices: 150k

Anonymous said...

Assets: $2.5MM+
Liabilities: $20K (car lease)
Net worth: $2.48MM

No house. Never owned one (42 years old).

I'm getting really worried, though, that my assets are largely "paper" assets. I have some physical gold (appox. $100K). The danger of sustained inflation going forward is large (although I think a deflationary wipeout is possible/likely first). I am starting to seriously think about getting into some leveraged real estate, but in my area (SF Bay area) proces have not adjusted anywhere near what would be required to at least have a chance of a reasonable real return over he next 10-20 years). It's a real shame that gov/fed policy almost compels one to engage in risky speculation....

keith said...

So for all of you with a good chunk of your net worth in depreciating US dollars,


Anonymous said...

Assets: 5,600
Liabilities (student loans fixed at <3% interest): 7,000

Just got out of school, and assets have increased by 5,000 since then.

Anonymous said...


cash 99k
401k (stocks etc.*) 125k
gold/silver (physical) 25K
house (est.**) 450k



Mortage 135K

Net 564K

*mostly in Schiffs and other overseas

**bought in 95 for 250k, Sillyow has it valued now at 850K so I'm pulling 450k out my ass

Anonymous said...

Assets: 1.5million
Cash: $120k
Stock: $510k
Other: $30k
Liabilities: $40k

Net worth: 2.12million

Anonymous said...

Assets: 890k
Liabilities: 375k

Net Worth: 515k US Pesos... ;)

Bernake Rat said...

Forgot to mention...

My liquid assets are....

Gold 30k
Euro-based CD - $15,000 USD
Stocks(all puts) = $1,500
Car = $10,000
And my charm = $5

Anonymous said...


for me i get paid in pounds and xfer to USD every month at the market rate so i have some hedge against the falling dollar.

i am keeping money in USD because i'll figure it has to come back - kind of like buy low sell high. but i should have hedged in gold and other pm's last year but was shy by the transaction and storage costs not to mention the possibility of fraud. oh well now i don't feel compelled to sell out as i don't believe the dollar will fall too much further as the trade deficit has already improved in the us.

so keefer, how about you? why don't you post your stats?

and what do you in london anyway besides make money off your blog? maybe it's time for some european advertisements so you can get paid in £ for gods sake???

Anonymous said...

@ Keith,

I'm anon 4:19. First, I love your blog. It, among a few others, helped cement my convictions to sell my house in 2006 because prices were looking irrational to me. As I said, best financial move I ever made - it paid off all debt and left a bunch of money to put in specific stocks that have done very well. Thanks for the "push".

My reason for heavy US dollar exposure is simple. Saw my Dad bite the gold bug in the 80s (remember the Ruff times?) and take it in the shorts even though his reasoning was very sound. You know: the old "the markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent" stuff. Next, I agree to an extent that the Fed is inflating their way out of this mess - however, I am not completely convinced it is as dire as you believe. I do get the whole credit crunch, declining asset value, inflation, banking, bubble stuff. That said, I believe a home, purchased at a great price (probably in about 2 -3 more years), when coupled with the right mortage, with a long-term vision, is a very solid inflation hedge. I believe earnings in the markets are currently very good and PPS growth will substantially outpace inflation when choosing the proper growth stocks. And yes, to an extent, I do believe the Fed has created a new asset bubble (stocks) to replace another (housing). I recognize I need to watch this for trouble signs in the markets to protect myself.

Don't get me wrong, I think this economy will have some major pains ahead, but I don't believe we are in for a major economic collapse. Also, I believe sticking with what I know, understand, and can logically think through. Playing commodities (oil, gold, foreign currency) is above me. Also, let's face it, if there is a major economic collapse in the US we are all (on a world-wide basis) majorly screwed. Thinking that we can be invested in a portfoilio to protect us from the resulting world-wide mayham that would follow I believe is unrealistic. I respect that you don't agree. My logic, understanding of my own investing limitations, and openess to look at others ideas have served me well for 40 years. So my plan is to stick with that until I see a better, more profitable, more secure path. I'd venture to guess many others think like me - and this is why they have not moved all investments into commodities or out of the US market.

Anonymous said...

amazing how everyone is suddenly anonymous.

J said...

Hey Keith,
My wife and I have 175K in an ING acct but are concerned about the decrease in value of the dollar. Howver, we dont really know what to do with it (we might like to buy a house [in LA] in a couple of years but only if prices tank). We have 200k in retirement, make almost 200k, 2 kids, 40 yrs. old. Any advice would be great!

sam i am said...

While I know someone is going to accuse me of lying, the honest answer (tracked monthly) is:

Cash/Equivalent = $844,000
Retirement Accts = $133,000
Vehicles = $35,000
Business Equity = $566,000

Total = $1.578 MM

By the way, I am single with two kids, divorced (the most expensive thing I ever "bought," but soooo worth it!) and in my mid 30s and I rent a large home.

As for keeping "depreciating US dollars," I struggle with this, but do not see any safe havens. I am not a gold bug, although I wish I had kept the GLD I bought at 60 in January (sigh), the EURO is "overbought" as is oil ... I just don't know what to do besides continuing to accumulate wealth in my domestic currency by diversified investing (a lot of my money is in mutual funds which focus on overseas investing).

Anonymous said...

$1.45 Million home(down 10%)
$100K Retirement account
$50K Cash/Liquid

$450K Mortgage

Net worth: $1.15 Million.

5 Year change: + $500K

I am the walking definition of "house rich, cash poor". 44yo. Married, 2 kids. $200K income.

GT said...

Total Assets $211,973
Total Debts $17,425
Net Worth $194,548

Anonymous said...

Assets: $224,000
Liabilities: $6,000

Net Worth: $218,000

(no house)
Double Income: $130,000/year

Ages 28 & 34

sam i am said...

p.s. I have "zero" liabilities.

Anonymous said...

Assets: $730K, all cash and stocks
Liabilities: $2,200 credit card
no house
no job, all assets saved from past career in finance and good investments
now, write for a living
crappy credit because I said F.U. to Verizon when they overcharged me.
need to upgrade FICO so I can buy a house next year
concerned about getting a mortgage with no W-2 income

sam i am said...

I completely agree with Anon @ 5:43

the snifter said...

wow am I broke compared to all of you. But I have a hot young wife so I don"t worry so much. I did not see many posts of people with negative net worth. I guess they are too poor to type.


Happy Homedebtor said...

Net worth is funny. You can't really count your primary residence or equity/neg-eq in it since you need to live somewhere - IE if you sell it, you have to buy another place or rent another. Vacation/investment properties sure - since you don't actively live there as a primary residence.

For those of you who don't own and are claiming huge $$s, you do realize retiring early is a pipe dream since you'll constantly be paying ever-increasing rents? Sure, property taxes will increase over that time as the housing market improves, but figuring $5K on a $500K house, 2-4% increase is $100-200/yr more...whereas renters you're talking completely random increases, with a baseline of $2600 on that you could end up with $50-100 more per month per year...calculate that? ;)

My favorite is the ratio of non-housing-wealth to incomes. The guy with $200K income has $150K in assets outside of his house...w t f? At 44? You're not house poor, you're just screwed in general.

Anonymous said...

Assets: $13,500 (IRA & Checking)
Liabilities: $73,200 (Stdnt. Loans)
Net Worth: -$59,700 (Ouch)

Some ass posted a couple of days ago that I should be singing
Uncle Sugar's praises for subsidizing my student loan debt.

Au contraire, if Uncle Sugar did not subsidize student loan debt, education costs would be much lower. (The same effect is felt in housing and healthcare, the costs of which are also inflated by misguided attempts to make them more affordable.)

The effect of student loan subsidies is to inflate the cost of education, but enable people to finace their bloated tuition bills at a below-market rate. It's enforced debt-slavery disguised as a gift.

Anonymous said...

"amazing how everyone is suddenly anonymous."

You need better comprehension skills. The thread said "POST AS ANON"

Anonymous said...

ASSETS = $0.00

1.) House = $650k (no money down and IO)
2.) Cars (1 Hummer & 1 BMW bought through HELOC) = $100k
3.) HELOC = $100k
4.) Savings = $0.00
5.) 401K = none

Oops, sorry, those are not mine. It's my neighbor next door who is currently facing forclosure and eating ramen.

Anonymous said...

Assets: $585,000 (cash, stocks)
Liabilities: $7000 (4000 left on a 2005 Civic Si at 2.9% and $3000 on SWEET Sony HDTV)
Net Worth: $578,000

Anonymous said...

Quite frankly all this prosperity listed here is a bit hard to believe... The truth is a sad fact...

Anonymous said...

Mortgage = 240,000 5.35% 30yr fixed
Home value '05 $850,000
Home value today $670,000

Loss of equity = $180,000 = 29%

Loss of equity in UK sterling Assuming

'05 $/GB = 1.71
'07 $/GB = 2.08

Loss = 35% !!!!!!!! In 2 years

(I'm English so this matters to me)

But I gold gold at %450 and Silver at $9. Ha Ha Ha Ha.


Good luck everybody. Brace Brace

Anonymous said...


12k in ING
3k in checking
30k in stock
10k in paid off cars

approx. $300 in credit card debt just so I can carry a balance and make payements for FICO score's sake

net worth: approx 55k
age 37
Los Angeles

Anonymous said...

Net Worth (As of November 1, 2007)

Assets: $586,777.85 ($191K in IRA)
Liabilities: $0

Like Anon at 3:14 PM, I also calculate this monthly. Additionally, I calculate it Euros, British Pounds, Swiss Francs, Canadian Dollar, Australian Dollar, Chinese Juan, Japanese Yen, gold and silver.

I am also a Jealous Bitter Renter. A badge I wear with honor.

House: 1 Million dollars
Car: 70,000 Dollars
Savings: 250,000 dollars

Lying about your net worth on Housing << PRICELESS >>

That was good.

Anonymous said...

"I do get the whole credit crunch, declining asset value, inflation, banking, bubble stuff. That said, I believe a home, purchased at a great price (probably in about 2 -3 more years), when coupled with the right mortage, with a long-term vision, is a very solid inflation hedge."

I believe the USD is effectively entering a bearish corridor much like the Pound Sterling, from 1945 to 1975, when Britain lost most of its major colonies. These channels take a generation or so to work out which is why I don't believe in the 8 Euros to 1 Dollar scenario as the next big story to come out this year. All and all, the only problem with RE is that many of the buy zones (Cali, NE, Sunbelt) are bubble regions and won't keep up with stagflation for at least another decade.

"I believe earnings in the markets are currently very good and PPS growth will substantially outpace inflation when choosing the proper growth stocks."

Now, we have ETFs for all kinds of sectors, indexes, etc which are better swing trading options than the old mutual funds, since getting in and out [ if there's let's say a semiconductor rally 'SOX' for a couple of quarters ] is a click away.

resisting husband said...

Assets: $25k
Debts: $32k in student loans

Net Worth: Negative $7k

My Excuse: Graduating in may, then it is on!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Assets: $312,000
(Broken across various investments; stocks, CDs, and one investment property shared with sibling which is bought and paid for)
Liabilities: $0

35 years old by the way. And yes, I rent.

Incidentally, that $12,000 portion in my net worth is mostly from PUTs on CFC and IMB. :-)

Anonymous said...


$40K in GLD (gold ETF)
$10K in Chinese yuan
$20K in Swiss Franc
$35K in High interest savings (5%)

$400K house
(own it outright - but in these market conditions, it may be worth 70% of that)


$33K car loan
No credit cards, and as mention, paid my house off

Anonymous said...

stocks/cds/mm: 615k (50% cash and currency etfs)
401/ira: 137k
car: 2k
furnature/tv/stuff: 10k

liabilities: 0k

Net worth: 764k

(no house, no loans, pay off credit cards every month)

Anonymous said...

I'm 39 today, and my assets (rounded to the nearest hundred) include:

401k: $25,000
IRA: $270,000
ESPP: $2500
Stock Options: $9700
Emergency Savings: $20,000
CD: $260,000 (housing funds, currently looking)
Other Investments: $8300
Checking account: $4100

Liabilities: none (yes, really)

Total net worth: $599,600

Anonymous said...

Car $10500
Cash 2500

Car loan -2500
Credit card 0% -2500
Student loans -50000

Net worth -42000

In grad school now and renting. Not everyone on HP is worth $1M+. I will pay off student debt starting next year and am looking to buy at the trough 2010-2015.

Anonymous said...

Assets: $295,000
Liabilities: $25,000 (auto loan)
Net Worth: $270,000

No Mortgage
No CC Debt

2 yr change: +$140,000

Anonymous said...

US$ 120K in cash

nothing else, no home, no gold, no stock, no 401k, nothing

no debt either

so total of 120K

I give up trying to 'beat the crowd' with super-smart investment strategies

Need to live life today as there is never enough time

I am probably just stupid cave man

Anonymous said...

Keefer, said:
'So for all of you with a good chunk of your net worth in depreciating US dollars,

Because the depreciating US dollar story is a blip in History, i'm truly amazed how you don't see it.

Because you are very right on Housing and totally -100%- wrong on the US Dollar and Ron Paul.

Anonymous said...

Cash/close to it: $100,000
401k: $250,000
cars now: $10,000
cars after peak oil: $0
liabilities: $100,000

Subtotal -- ~$250,000

Home Equity (now) $250,000

Net -- $500K (not bad -- had not looked in years)

Anonymous said...

I wish you had asked for age to help normalize the numbers some. Seeing the posted numbers I think the average reader age is low 30s, maybe a tad lower?

Anonymous said...

Most of you are liars.

Assets $___1____

- Debt/Liabilities $___30___

= Net Worth $ __-29___

Anonymous said...

Cash: $75k
Retirement Accounts: $175k

Car Loan: $15k
Student Loan: $3k

No house, fixed rent (including utilities), no credit card debt. 31 years old, married, no kids.

btw, for all you listing cars as assets - they're not.

Anonymous said...

Only one income - stay at home mom.
Four kids, Northern Cal. Husband 33, wife 28.

Sold home 11/05

No liabilities

$285k net worth - just calculated it because we are getting pre-approved for a loan.

FICO 810

Anonymous said...

assets: 285,000

Debt: $400

net worth: 284,600

no house.

Sixpercenter said...

Assets 1.5M

Net Worth: 1.5M

Age 43

Money begats more money. Save, invest, repeat.

Ain't never owned a house. When I thought about buying a house Robert Shiller convinced me not to.

When the Case Shiller 5 yr futures mkt ticks up I'll buy something.

Not before.

Anonymous said...

Assets: approx. $2.8 million ($1.1 million house (yes that's what it would sell for right now), $600K in CDs, $650K in retirement accts., $350K in stocks and mutual funds, $100K in collectibles)
Liabilities: $338K (mortgage- no other debt)

Net worth two years ago: $1.5 million

Net worth five years ago: $400,000

Anonymous said...

house rich cash poor

house $1.2m
cars $40k
retirement $350ish k
cash/stock $35k
other crap $20k



mortgage @ 5% fixed $230000

Net: $1.415m

probably closer to 1.2 w/ current home values.

david in norcal said...

assets 163k
house 495k (sept. close)
liabilities 328k (320 mort/8car)
net worth=330k

2 years ago (1/1/06):
assets 127k
house 525k
liabilities 341k
net worth=311k

in San Mateo County, CA

getyourselfconnected said...

I am submitting for the United States of America by proxy:

Assets: a crap load of bombs, paris hilton, the grand canyon, money printing presses, did I mention a crap load of bombs?
Liabilities: Wars, social security, government worker pensions, Fannie Mae, dead currency, national debt
Net Worth: You dont want to know, but I still have alot of bombs.

Anonymous said...

House $315,000 (Midwest)
Other Assets 245,000

mortgage $110,000 (only debt)

Net worth $450,000

2002...Net Worth approx $245,000

keith said...

realtors who drank their own koolaid and overleveraged themselves during the bubble and now have no income and crashing equity must be hating this thread right about now

HP'ers - from the students just starting out to the ones who've already made it - there's something that evidently connects you, and made you find your way to this blog

* live below your means
* save
* invest
* diversify
* leave showing off for realtors

Anonymous said...

Regarding Anon 9:00 and his accusation that we are all liars...

Well, I (Anon 8:10) can't speak for anyone else, but you're right about me. I went back over my numbers, realizing I neglected to include a previous employer's 401k. I was short by about $13k.

Revised net worth: ~$612,000

Anonymous said...

Cash: 400k
Stocks: 3100k

Student Loans: 20k @ 2.7%

Net Worth

Living well within my means, no cc debt, no mortgage. Leasing my car and renting.

Anonymous said...

assets: house 1 br condo $171,000.00
liabilities: $99,000.00 30 yr fixed
no other debt
no investments
not a hamster

5 years ago; 3 br 2 ba house paid for
car paid for

eff insurance companies.

Anonymous said...

low net worth peeps shouldn't feel that bad.

i think most HP readers are probably in the top 2% of Americans in terms of finacial savy. I posted my (high yet true) net worth earlier, yet out of about 100 people i know:
- my net worth is higher then all but 4 or 5
- only one other reads HP regularly
- only about 10 have any idea of what their net worth is, or know what "net worth" means
- less then half have any savings whatsoever

Anonymous said...

OK, I read this blog a lot (maybe way too much) but have never posted, here goes:


100K CDN in ING
90K CDN in Credit Union (term deposit)
30K US in a couple of accounts in US and Canada.
600K CDN House (knocked off 20 percent of what other houses have sold for recently, fully paid for).
40K CDN cars.
10K cash.
50K various business deals.
950K give or take

10K car loan (gotta keep some credit history).
1K on credit cards (forgot to pay last month).
10K in upcoming education bills.
100K for kid's school in 15 years?
40K upcoming reno, house stuff.
Wife, kid, taxes.
40 years old

Net worth: Enough that I could work at a coffee shop and keep this show on the road, although I'm not going to do that hopefully. I'm not rich by western standards but I've wanted to be debt-free with a place to live and a some $ in the bank since I was 35, cheap living works.

Financial Regrets: Selling a condo for 270K two years ago after reading all the bubble talk. Same condo sold a month ago for 450K, Canadian real estate has been a lot slower to fall apart than the same in the USA. On the other hand, I made $100K on it so...

I don't calculate net worth monthly, I'm just liquid and ready to buy something good when I see it. Stocks, real estate, whatever, right now I can't see anything that would be all that great to put money into. Stupid to have so much cash maybe, but I like cash at the moment, the world seems like a very volatile place both from a financial and political perspective... Thought about buying gold, but you can't DO anything with gold, and if the excrement hits the fan I don't see gold being worth much more than tooth filler as a result. Am buying extra hard groceries and good tools, who knows what's going to happen but food and tools are always useful. I make my living a lot of different ways, if times stay good then it will all be OK and if things go bad then I can likely still make a living unless the western world turns into Somalia, which it possibly could. But then things would be so whacko that we'll all be off the boat and swimming anyhow.

Curious how other people look at the world beyond just, "Real estate is over-valued." What's important, not?

Anonymous said...

Cash: $150k
IRA's: $190K
Liabilities: 0

Net Worth: $340K

in my 40's; I rent.

Anonymous said...

(this is anon 3:14 >1)

@ Keith:

I keep most of my assets in $US for several reasons:

1. Just as the true value of a house is determined ONLY when someone hands you a cashier’s check to buy it, the value of my $ will only be determined when I spend them.

2. I think that while a devaluation of the $ will effect international trade, the massive credit crunch on the horizon will offset the effect with domestic value. When no one has money, prices will be forced down, cash will become king, and those with cash will be in the drivers seat.

3. I think that’s it’s best for America to keep $ in America. (no predjudice intended, it’s best for a UK’er to keep their LB in the UK, etc)

4. I too know someone who got burned on gold. With the price he bought, it took 20 years to hit breakeven (this was several years ago).

5. Given a choice between betting on America and betting on other nations, I still have to bet on America.

@anon 3:45
I agree that a home value many not be appropriate in the calculation. Like I said, the value of a home isn’t what you and your neighbors (or the city, realtors, bank) say.
The value of your home is exactly equal to the little numbers written on the check when you sell it. No more, no less. Everything else is perception or speculation.

@ anon 7:18

You said “I am also a jealous Bitter Renter. A badge I wear with honor”

You call that a badge? That’s nothing. I wear the badge of “Trailer Trash”. I chose to buy a mobile home. It’s great if you honestly don’t care about other people’s opinion.

1450 sq feet of never-lived-in brand-new-everything space for about $45k total. Rent about $350 a month. Never put another dime in it, walk away clean in 20 years, pocket the cash you save.

@ anon 8:25

I applaud your cash-heavy position. For me, I remember being poor. I remember when $3000 in debt was life and death to me. That’s why I trust cash.

Don’t worry about trying to beat the crowd. The people who passed you on their way up will also pass you on their way down.

Debt free is still problem free. I go as far as to pay my rent a year in advance, giving me a cushon, and the comfort of knowing that if I ever feel like it, I could sit on my butt for a year without worrying.

Anonymous said...

assets 3.3 million
liabilities 0.0 million
net 3.3 million

net has increased a lot in the last few years on lucky private equity payout, and stock market up-move

Anonymous said...

I noticed some of you have some big CD's...FDIC goes to $ diversity...who knows which banks etc. are going to go..remember all that cash is in banks which are connected to the credit crunch/mortgage mess...

Watch your Money Market account too..I moved a chunk out...just in case...spread your cash around..

Keith why am I in cash? - it is too late and emerging markets are run up too...been in both for a few years but won't add to them now..what am I really going to do w/ my dollars at this point? Already in some Euros, again too late to buy more... If things get too expensive then I guess I won't buy unless absolutely necessary....I am behind in my reading anyway...

Anonymous said...



Home in Country w/ well and windmill electric backup power supply able to pump & heat water for cooking and bathing (if electrical grid goes down). Value in todays dollars... Don't know and Don't care as I will die on this land and my kids will have to decide to keep the place or sell it. No Mortgage, and the property is held in a trust so that if my wife or I get hospitalized, the medical creditors can't attach the place. This PROTECTED LAND W/ HOME takes care of SHELTER & WATER Needs for Life!

As for Food, like everyone else we know... we enjoy night's out on the town and purchase groceries at the supermarket. 70% of our liquid monitary position is in GOLD & SILVER physical stored in a Safe Deposit Box at our Bank, the rest of the cash is in Savings/Checking Accts. Do we have enough liqidity to purchase Food for Life? Don't know, that all depends on what happens to FOOD prices. If all out crash ever happens, in the end we are most likely screwed just like everyone else... its just that for us we won't get hit as hard as most folks we know.

DEBTS: none.

NET WORTH: LIFE SUPPLY OF SHELTER & WATER, large suppy of both hard and soft money required to purchase food.

DISPOSABLE INCOME: My family now enjoys the HI-LIFE spending 50% of our disposable income on things that we could survive without--- like cars, gasoline, entertainment, etc. We save the rest in both hard and soft money as insurance against hard times.

Anonymous said...

Assets: 0
Cash: 100,000 (or 530,000 Norwegian kroner, oil backed)
Stocks: 0
House: 0
Debt: 0

Net worth (at age 30) $100,000.

Bitterrenter said...

You'll all die the same. Broke. Money is an artificial construct.

No, I'm not a loser I just get kinda sick at all the money fascination in this awful culture.

Anonymous said...

Assets: 60,000
Liabilities: 0
Net Worth: 60,000

Currently renting

Deflation - Hence no house said...

Apartment in Europe- Paid -off 150,000 Euro (Very low estimate ) or $216,000
Cash(Euro)30,000 or $44,000
Cash :$40,000
IRA :$12,000
401K :$155,000
Car :$10,000

Graduate School Loan - $24,000
Cr Card- Medical Stuff -$14,000

Net Worth =$477,000 - $38,000 = $439,000

Anonymous said...

house in sacramento: $850,000
IRA and 401K: $27,000

mortgage on house: $650,000
credit cards: $27,000
student loans: $90,000
auto loans: $46,000
HELOC: $50,000

NET WORTH: $14,000

Not living in a shitty one-bedroom apartment: PRICELESS

Anonymous said...

assets $6,000

liabilities $53,000

net worth - $47,000

Anonymous said...

Assets- $441,000
-debt/liabilities $104,000
=net worth $ 337,000
About $60,000 increase in last year with GOLD and SILVER BABY!!!

Folks we are hosed-the dollar is DOOMED! HPers are gonna be better off than the rest of the "civilized world"
Scott M

Anonymous said...

S&W Revolver
10000 Cash
5000 Gold Coins
Survival Knife
Lots of Ammo
Hot young wife with big tatas.

Anonymous said...

cash 500K
chattles 400K
cars 20K
debit 0$K
life@ 50% of income

Anonymous said...

Assets $257,000

$ 182,000 Cash
$ 22,000 401K
$ 50,000 Worldly Possesions
$ 3000, Sellable Ebay junk


Credit cards $4, interest

Sold the farm 3 years ago. Now Happy renter in paradise.

Net Worth $253,000

John said...

I have asked the question for past 15 years “Where does the money come from to give to people who successfully speculated on housing, I mean some one had to lose, give up the cash? I thought this was a basic important question yet I was laughed at and thought an idiot by everyone I asked with such a "Stupid" question….Well now it is quite apparent (Even though none of the taking head jackasses on bubble vision will say it)..The money was created by CDO leveraging may times over, this is gonna bring down our country and a lot of the world big time.

Anonymous said...

btw, for all you listing cars as assets - they're not.


yes they are, just not appreciating assets, which is why banks will consider them when they loan you money, though I doubt they would loan you much if your car was your only asset.

Anonymous said...

Rough estimate of net worth now is 100k. No debt at all. Feeling pretty well behind where I should be at my age, but at least I have a positive net worth.

Anonymous said...

Assets: $750,000
Liabilities: 0
Net worth: $750,000

Happy renter.

LV said...

Assets: 417,000
Liabilities: 0
Net worth: 417k

We actually slide back alittle the last two years, however, our Vanguard investments made up for it, and then some. Hopefully we'll figure out the right path to take during the upcoming turbulence.

Anonymous said...

House 350,000. (1/06 appraisal 590,000) thats right kids..a 240K drop.
Savings/Checking 17,000.
401K 3,000.00
Car 30,000.
Total : 400,000.00

Toxic Mortgage #1 445,600.
Toxic Mortgage #2 80,000.
6 credit cars (maxed out) 47,000.
The bank of dad 100,000.00
1 ex-wife with her lawyer on speed dial.... limitless.

Total 672,000.00

net worth (272,000.00)

If I get hit by a bus today, my life insurance pays out 775,000. So I have that going for me.

I wonder why any of you read Keith's blog if your in such great financial I the only reader he has that actually needs his advise? Or am I the only one NOT kidding myself anymore.

worried said...

I'm doing OK, but here's a real world example of an average Joe (a relative of mine)

50 years old
150 pounds overweight, Diabetic
Earns $15/hr
No savings, $200 in checking
Nothing left at end of month
No health insurance
Rents a crappy old house
No retirement plan outside of SS and a $350/mo pension when he hits age 60

Owns a beat up truck and makes payments on a POS car.

Assets (guns, coins, crap), maybe $10K

Liabilities, $5K (car loan, hospital bills)

Net worth, maybe $5K on a good day

And it scares me to think he's atypical, and the finances of many Americans are essentially nil.

LauraVella said...

Keith said:"So for all of you with a good chunk of your net worth in depreciating US dollars, Why?"

Keith, I don't want to bother with buying different currencies - to me, it doesnt seem the gain is worth all the trouble, plus I don't know anything about it...

So instead, I'll just hunker down with a good CD rate, and keep the money in arms reach-just in case.

Anonymous said...

Happy Homedebtor said...

"...For those of you who don't own and are claiming huge $$s, you do realize retiring early is a pipe dream since you'll constantly be paying ever-increasing rents?..."

November 02, 2007 6:23 PM


Do you realize we'll be getting ever-increasing streams of dividends from our investments?

Do you realize we'll buy at a time and in a place of our choosing, once real home prices have cratered by 50% (or more)?

Anonymous said...

41k savings/checking
25k 401k
11k paid off car

77k total

0 debt

I spent 5 years paying off debt (car, student loans, credit cards) and will fight as hard as possible never to go back to that lifestyle ever again.

I ignore every commercial (no cable tv anymore either, so that is easy), every credit card / bank mailing (tear them up vigorously and throw them out immediately), every "sweet" deal on home purchases (and pay 3x on a mortgage than current rent, + HOA, + maintenance, + taxes? NO WAY!).

I treat most companies now as if they did not even exist. Let them rot...

Anonymous said...

cash 170k
gold bullion 100k
silver bullion 25k
gold/silver stocks 80k
other equities 104k
3rd trustee investment 105k

no liabilities


Anonymous said...

Assets: $450,000 cash(profit from sale of house-looking to buy another home but can't find anything but ugly McMansions)plus $465,000 in gold company stocks plus Retirement accounts worth $1,400,000 (bought gold company stocks back in 2004-they have gone up 600%)

Liabilities: 0

Net Worth #2,315,000

44 years old

Budvar said...

All this "My house is worth this, my car is worth that and I've got stocks and shares out the wazzoo" doesn't mean shit.

Bottom line is something is worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it, and book prices dont mean shit.

An example is, I just bought a car, a Jeep cherokee 2.5TD, book price is between $5k-7k, I paid $2700 OK it wanted a bit of work doing, $300 in parts later (2 headlamps, an oil pressure sensor and 2 UJs on the end of the front axel, this is UK prices btw) 4 hr work later it's still well bellow even trade in value. This isn't out the ordinary either.

Anonymous said...

Assets: $1.2 mil (cash, equities, 401k)

Liabilities: $0

Net worth: $1.2 mil

36 years old. Married, 2 kids. $225k annual income.

Live in SF Bay Area. Don't own a house (never have) and won't buy for at least 2 more years.

Budvar said...

"My reason for heavy US dollar exposure is simple. Saw my Dad bite the gold bug in the 80s (remember the Ruff times?) and take it in the shorts even though his reasoning was very sound."

Hey come on, even if he bought gold at $800 and 7 years earlier it was $35 (lets be fair if he did, his reasoning wasn't that sound) name anything other than video recorders and computers that cost more 27 years ago than they do today? Hell in 79/80 I was an apprentice earning £23 a week, the skilled men were pulling £98 a week!!
Wages have increased a minimum of 4 fold since then, gold needs to be in the $3k+ ballpark to even be close to the high in todays money. We're not even close yet!!

Anonymous said...

CD's 280,000
Stocks 15,000
cars paid, no liabilities, renting.

Net worth: 295,000

Lou Minatti said...

Real Assets:

2 kids
1 wife
1 job
1 reasonable level of health
1 live in a great country
5 close friends

Other Assets:

1 house almost paid off ($30k left)
2 paid-off cars
1 IRA account
1 bank account

Anonymous said...

Cash/Stock/etc: $4,650,000
House (conservative): 700,000
Vehicles: 60,000
Retirement Funds: 225,000

Total: (approx) $5,625,000

No job anymore though, just sold out to enjoy life for a while.

PS. Nope, no joke, this is for real.

Anonymous said...

* live below your means
* save
* invest
These are things everyone should do. The reason I am here is to find faults in logic. Information from here and others has made me millions.

Anonymous said...

The guy with $6000 in assets - HAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

sorry, lisdexic fingers on that $5.xx net worth above, but you get the picture.

I forgot to answer the how does it compare questions. In answer, because I sold out, it is about double what it used to be...

Figure the family & I can never work again if we so choose...

turdly said...

just under 2mill, no debt homeS free and clear, just insurance and taxes, nothing else. It was half that two years ago, will be fairly stagnant now on. All cash. Not a stock or investment to my name.

And to the guys who spout of guns and such, I hope you're kidding. I can afford to buy ten of you for ten years if the time arises. But please do not think it will. It's just a redneck nazi dream. And believe me, I'm not near the wealthiest or angriest in my modest neighborhood.

A message from a truly big boy; those of who can will, those of us who wish they could count the wifes tatas as an asset.

I have more in ammo, completely incidental to any cause or belief, than you'll amass in a lifetime. Find another plan. Some of us will be eating your lunch, on the very first day out.

Anonymous said...

IRA $1.05M
+Cash Securities $0.25M

- Debt/Liabilities $0.01M

= Net Worth $1.29M
no mortgage

Anonymous said...

why was platimum selling at 1200 when gold was 250 or now selling a 1600 and gold at 800....guns

Anonymous said...

anon 11.42... country waters and pass along real estate.... that opinion is how i wound up losing in the town. county, state with the highest property and income taxes.....wshat you got sounds good....and if politics ever goes bad,...i know who, where, and what and why i shall loot, till i get "mine" back////

Anonymous said...

Not counting car or other "assets" in net worth:

Gold/silver bullion $110,000
Cash $20,000

no debt, so $130k total

Anonymous said...

Cash: $500,000
Invest: 370,000

Liabs: 0

Net Worth: $870,000

Sold house in Nov 2005, now rent.

Anonymous said...


Cash: 137,000
mutual funds in IRA and 401k: 110
Other 24,000 (cars jewelry etc.)

Vested pension? We will see....

Liability (including Credit Card):0

Net Worth: $261,000

5 Yr Change: + $150,000

Mortgage: None
Debt other than Credit card: None They pay me at the end of the year!


Anonymous said...

I actually believe that most of the people here are telling the truth, or at least "in the ballpark" of the truth. I don't really see the upside in lying about your finances in an anonymous post.

This is interesting, because it gives the lie to what a lot of realtor trolls say about the people who cruise this blog... The profile here is people who have made some money, have been frugal, have salted it away in balanced investments, and have not levered up to "live the life" -- a lot of like minds, mine among them.

Realtor idiots lose again.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:18 said:"I wonder why any of you read Keith's blog if your in such great financial I the only reader he has that actually needs his advise? Or am I the only one NOT kidding myself anymore."

I'm here to read information on what other posters have to say about financials and investing.

Two heads are better than one!

Anonymous said...

Hey Keith,

We've told all, now can you put your numbers up please?

Post it as Anon administrator please.

-Big Cheese

Anonymous said...

Home $700,000 (paid for)
Cd's $1,010,000 (in 3 different banks)
IRA's $475,000 (sitting in cash)
Toy's $150,000

Liabilities: $0
Net Worth: $2,335,000

47 and semi retired. Still need more too feel comfortable especially with the dollar dropping.

I'm in cash because I don't trust any of these brokers or other money handler's with my coins. They know about as much as Realtors, and really could give a shit if you were to lose it all.

Anonymous said...

Just guessing on the value of my house/cars, but:

House ($50K)
2 Cars ($10K)
Savings ($10K)
401K ($10K)

Student Loans ($40K)

Net worth: $40K

Two years ago I just had the cars and the student loans, so I'm up $70K.

Anonymous said...

Assets: 250,000
Liabilities : 0

Dont own or rent currently riding around the world on a motorcycle. Typical hotel is $15 per day.

eagle eye said...

Wife and I are 30 yrs old,

Cash: $50k (house sold)
Roth IRA: $4.5k
Vehicles: $10K

School Loans: $3500
Credit Card: $3000

Net Worth: $58K

(A year ago we were 19K in the hole on credit cards with 0 in the bank, so I'm proud of the fact we've dug out)

Anonymous said...

Apparently, everyone on this blog is a millionaire or close to it. LMAO

nowifeelpoor said...

WOW... I found a quarter the other day and felt lucky. Not anymore....You folks are rich...I am screwed.. Wow now I really know how much I suck... Thanks folks.....for nothing.your rich. HOw did you all get all that money, did you inherit it or find it or are you all doing illegal things for it. I am a disabled vet and I have squat, and you folks just stayed comfortable and your wealthy.

My life has been a waste and I am a fool.

Congratulations on your wealth... I hope you EARNED it

Anonymous said...

House: 330,000
Super: 10,000
Stock market: 2,500

Mortgage: 197,000
HECS debt: 18,000

Net worth: 127,500 BOOYAH

Anonymous said...

Home: $1,000,000 (conservative est.)
401K/B: $500,000
Bond Fund: $110,000
Cash (Bank account): $90,000
Cash (paper): $10,000
Gold & Silver Bullion: $140,000
Cars (bluebook): $40,000 (3 vehicles)

Mortgage: $300,000 (5.5% fixed)
Car loan: $10,000
No CC debts
No other loans

Net Worth (2007): $1,580,000
Net Worth (2002): $500,000 est

Age: 51
Gross Income: $500,000
Retirement age target: NEVER!

I love my job and will never stop working unless the government socializes healthcare and forces me to quit in protest. Then, I will buy a farm and drop off the grid for good!

RetiredGuy said...

if you ask, and i put up my REAL assests, why do you NOT post them.

The $5 Million+ guy...

Anonymous said...

"Cd's $1,010,000 (in 3 different banks)"

I'd say, use a few brokerage accounts and buy currency ETFs and AAA govt bonds (US, Aussie, Cn, Northern European) because SIPC is $500K insured per account whereas FDIC only protects $100K per person for a regular bank CD. If you need to solely park cash, w/o fear of a bank or brokerage going bust, buy TIPs direct from the Treasury.

Hamburger Flipper said...

Assets: $500

Liabilities: $23,000

Net Worth: -$22,500

Anonymous said...

"Cd's $1,010,000 (in 3 different banks)" here.

CD's can be vested "owned" and FDIC insured if married as follows:

200k husband/wife
100k wife
100k husband

So 400k in FDIC insurance. That won't cover your interest gain over the 100k limit though so 90k is good deposit amount.

I'll look into the ETF's, TIPs, and govt bonds.Thanks for the information.

Anonymous said...

Financial assets
10K in physical gold
20K in cash

Financial liabilities
10K student loans

Net financial position- +20K (at 30)

but more importantly...

Real assets
Excellent physical health
Cohesive family and friends
A head start on growing all our own food
The skills and resources to do so
Living in a relatively peaceful and isolated country
Debt free family property

Real liabilities
Economic instability (property taxes etc)

If they tried to run "Who wants to be a millionaire" in Zimbabwe do you think anyone would bother turning up??

Anonymous said...

net worth (includes spouse): £112K

so about $234k (that second number rises a lot faster than the first these days!)

none of it in property

Anonymous said...

no liabilities to speak of

Minimum Wage said...

I have a worthless liberal arts degree, no career-related experience, no marketable skills, advanced age, and tons of non-dischargeable debt (student loans).

I wish I could sell my degree and get say a Happy Meal for it.

Anonymous said...

$80K in 401k

$20K in savings (We just got married so we're working on building it back up.)

two late 90's toyotas, paid in full and running like tops, priceless for our needs

0 debt

=at least 100K, cool

We've also got a five Euro note that I found on the floor at the airport four years ago--someday I'll use it for a downpayment on a McMansion in Scottsdale!

Cathy said...


401Ks: $250,000
Equity in home: 125,000
Cash Savings: 25,000
Other: 25,000


Mortgage: $198,000

2 Cars (1998 Nissan and 2003 Nissan) paid off
No credit card debt
No other debt

Total Net Worth: $227,000

I'm 42, my husband is 39 (no kids)

Anonymous said...

$190k house (accounting for current market)
$110k commercial property close to downtown, rented with slight profit
$50k stock market (up from 20k in Feb!)
$10k cash in HSBC 5%
$8k car (blue book value)

$95k 1st mortgage, 4.5% 15yr, 10 years left
$34k 2nd mortgage, 7.5% 15yr (most used to pay down payment on commercial property)
$86k commercial loan, 15yr, 8%
$3k 2% "fixed until paid off" credit card
$7.5k 5% "fixed until paid off" credit card (put half in bank, rest I admit I spent when shouldn't have)
$0 student loans - in state tuition is (or at least was) cheap

Net worth:

I am 34 years old and not married yet. Realize I need more cash in bank and am working on that. In 15 years my house will be paid off and I will get income from the commercial property, so if other investments work out I could retire at 49 if I live cheaply (but if have kids then another 5 years of work I guess).