I wonder if the buggy whip makers had an association too?
I guess the NAR can't buy off everyone. Just Congress, your local goverments, and the Bush Administration. Here's the anti-trust complaint (pdf). I'm truly amazed to see the DOJ go after the NAR. Government doing its job? Amazing. Someone deserves a raise.
And here's the DOJ's new anti-NAR website. Enjoy! The days of realtors and their 6% are over, and the least respected and least trusted profession on earth is on its way out, whether they realize that or not.
Buggy whip salesmen. Travel agents. Dinosaurs. realtors.
October 21, 2007
DOJ sues the corrupt and monkey-run National Association of realtors for antitrust. Goodbye realtors, and good riddance.
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28 comments:
love the smell of competition in the morning.
hope that they don't use the NAR as the only scapegoat though.
they need to go after the execs at the loan companies who had reason to know this exotic financing would be detrimental to their shareholders.
ben needs to stop bailing out wall street too.
I have witnessed this first hand as I decided to go with a discount broker in my area who gets 3% commission several years back. I asked him how he got along with the established Realtor's that love that 6% and he told me they tried every scare tactic available to put him out of business and blackballed him every chance they got. Realtors have made their bed...now its time to lie in the crap.
Keith, get real. They will just get a slap on the wrist and a fine.
It's about time. Couldn't happen to a nicer collusive, anti-competitive criminal organization.
But anon 12:45 is right, let's not fool ourselves into thinking the realtors did this all on their own.
Realtors are just one component of the Real Estate Industrial Complex that has colluded to increase the debt and deteriorate the american standard of living for their own private interest.
No, I'm not forgetting about personal responsibility here either.
RE: DOJ sues the corrupt and monkey-run National Association of realtors for antitrust. Goodbye realtors, and good riddance.
Of course, the National Ass. of Realtwhores has posted "Some Simple Facts" on its website as a rebuttal to the charges made by the Department of Justice:
1. The "DOJ conveniently fails to mention that... almost two-thirds of consumers were very satisfied with the services they received" from the NAR. In a competitive business environment, a customer satisfaction rate of less than 65% would put any other business out of business.
2. The NAR claims that "70 percent of sellers say their commission was negotiated, which would mean that the remaining 30% got screwed.
3. "The real estate market is very competitive. NAR encourages innovation and fair competition in real estate brokerage, and favors no business model." This claim is so asinine that it defies belief.
4. "Realtors® add value to the real estate transaction, and two-thirds of sellers clearly are satisfied with the relationship they have with their full-service broker." Once again, 35% of the NAR customers are unhappy.
V.L.
My God, is the NAR that stupid? This is 2007. They are still living in the past. There is no possible way that the NAR could possibly stem all the information coming at people via the internet.
Hey NAR (aka numb nuts), don't you realize that you will very shortly just be the most expensive option for people. Your 6% commission will be the laughingstock of the world. It's actually childishly embarrassing that they think people need them anymore.
As always, they are in denial, they lie, they are corrupt and quite frankly, very stupid.
I love the part "Brokers have the right to select who can benefit from their hard work.."
Ummm... Last I checked you're performing a service for a homeowner and as such the homeowner has the rights...
I don't have a problem with realtors, they perform a service, but I hope these ass clowns get reamed good.
They need to remember who they work for. Their job is to market the house and help buyers find the right house. Too many now just want to make money and F everyone else.
It's sad, but it's happened before. Don't worry, there will be lots of out of work realtors in the next several years.
I don't blame them. I blame people like Tangelo Mazola who managed to make renters out of many homeowners.
You can have all the corrupt realtors in the world, but without money nothing happens....
The last realtor I told me not to worry about overpaying for a house because the increase in monthly payments would be minimal even for an extra $10,000 to the total price. Then he wanted me to sign a document that said I would have to pay him 3% commission even though I was the buyer. I told him to get lost.
The Real Estate industry as we know it will go through an extreme transformation the next few years. I must admit I am a realtwhore(an honest one I swear, their are really some good honest ones and screwed sellers need us now more than ever) Over the past 2 years I made as much money as many doctors, lawyers, and engineers with 300k master degrees, and I was only required to take 40 hours of education at a cost of $900 to receive my RE license. The industry training was a joke. People training new realtors only had 10 transaction sides completed themselves. Many I come in contact with have no clue what the agreement of sale actually reads.
As this market tanks, fingers will be pointed at the realtors. The scary thing is it requires NO EDUCATION to be a mortgage broker in my state. Just an office and a phone. So we have a bunch of people with no education dealing with peoples largest sales and purchases they make in their lives. 50% of realtors will leave the industry, and it seems the wholesale lending pipeline is going to dry up leaving mortgage brokers high and dry. I hope when the dust settles the states require higher education standards to recieve licensing. I also think that 4% will be the standard commision in the not so distant future. I made a very good living discounting my services the past 4 years.
Like us or not buyers and sellers need us. There is a lot of work that goes into buying or selling a house, and average Joe has no clue what the process is. What needs to happen in the future is that average Joe can trust his realtor knows his shit because of the strict education requirements.
He should also trust the realtor has ethics and his best interest at heart. For this to happen a buyers agent should be paid a flat fee by the buyer IN ADVANCE, and not paid a piece of the 6% commision at settlement from the SELLERS proceeds. In the current situation the buyers agent really represents himself, and the seller because if the house doesn't sell, the buyers agent doesn't get paid.
Now to throw something back at everyone reading. You all like to call us scumbags. Sellers have their heads up their ass, and blame the realtor for the house not selling. LOWER the price idiots. Price fixes everything. I'm not spending anymore money marketing your overpriced piece of shit because you think your house is worth more than what your neighbor got in 2005.
BUYERS, when you are willing to pay me a $1000 retainer for my services, and sign an agency contract, only then will I put you in my car. I have better things to do with my time than to drive you around for shit's and giggles. Also stop lying through your teeth. I treat you with honesty and respect. I expect the same.
Truth be told I am having a blast as a used car dealer and could care less if I ever wrote another RE contract. I also can't wait for the knife to stop falling so I can buy cash flow properties once again. That is where I truly built my wealth the last 12 years, and am looking for another nice run starting around 2010.
Don't forget Realtors are people. Last one I talked to was a single mom whith 2 kids that couldn't pay her mortgage the past 2 months. She's not a scumbag, just someone trying to make ends meet.
Bottom Feeder In Philly
HAHAHAHA!!!
I'm opposed to government involvement like this and instead support free-market solutions (which Google will take care of), but still, seeing the corrupt NAR getting the shaft is wonderful!!!
The 6% scam was the only way uneducated dolts with no skills and nothing to offer the world could afford their Escalades, but now those days are over.
Wanna make some good money the next couple of years? Become a repo man in a NAR-rich city like Phoenix.
This is an old issue limited to control of the listing. The DOJ wants all of the MLS database to be accessible on the web even if home sellers do not. This issue is not really applicable to the 6% pricing.
While DOJ is at it they should go after news papers that charge REALTORS more for classified ads then they do FSBOs. Believe it or not, this is so far legal as it has only been challenged at the Federal District level.
I'm baffled. The NAR's lobbyists must have been on vacation for a year. I never thought I'd see the GWB admin do anything to any big business, no matter how heinous.
As others have said, the people really responsible for this - the Wall street brokers and particularly the rating agencies - still don't seem to be facing anything like justice.
So much of this would have not happened without the rating agencies blessing the alt-a and subprime sludge.
Realtors should get no more than a 2% commission which should be split between the agents. There's no reason why anybody should be paid $50K to sell a starter home or condo. Most of them just list it in the MLS and wait. The buyer will find it listed and get their agent to give a showing. That's worth $50K for nothing?
nar is constantly being sued. always the same issues. they are still around so dont get excited.
Anon said:
(re-agent)
‘Like us or not buyers and sellers need us. There is a lot of work that goes into buying or selling a house, and average Joe has no clue what the process is.’
Can you please elaborate?
Buying a house is really the same like buying a ½ gal jug of milk, or a used car.
There is zero benefit to a buyer, to have an RE broker stand in between the seller,
most buyers would prefer to understand the sellers situation and negotiate a price that
benefits everyone.
Sellers who want to make 20% or more of the real value, hire a professional broker / negotiator to keep the price inflated.
More than low rates and easy lending practices. The NAR is the most responsible for this Housing price bubble.
Can you please elaborate?
Buying a house is really the same like buying a ½ gal jug of milk, or a used car.
You obviously have not bought or sold a home.
You go in to the store and give the cashier 2 bucks for a 1/2 gallon of milk. I sell used cars, and there is a bunch of paperwork that needs to be filled out properly to transfer title, get insurance and tags. Takes around 30 minutes, requires a notary license, and is very state regulated. Let's talk about buying and selling houses. The Pa agreement of sale is 21 pages including a lead based paint addendum, which is required on any home built pre 1978. It's 18 pages on newer construction. I will admit my 13 year old can fill in the blanks on an AOS(agreement of sale) but understanding the contracts, and protecting your clients interest require knowing the agreement inside and out. There are questions on how to take title, how to set up financing, appraisals, insurance, inspections, zoning issues, Use and Occupancy permits, conveyancing such as ordering tax certs, water and sewer certs etc. If it is a rural property understanding septic systems is important. A properly written agreement has many contingency clauses protecting a buyer, but drop the ball on the timeline you lose your contingencies. I have taken courses on appraisal, financing, construction(I also have a home improvement company, and did contracting work for a few years).My construction background is a huge help to buyers. In this market a listing agent has to do a hell of a lot more than stick it in the MLS. You need to use many different marketing mediums to get shit sold nowadays. Let's talk about negotiation. I have negotiated over 100 contracts. I have no emotional attachments to the deal. I think I may be able to negotiate for my buyers. Have you ever negotiated a short sale at 60% LTV. I have for a buyer recently. I also did a HUD deal at 65% of list price. I sent in pictures and repair estimates with my agreement. Would you have known to do that. Do you even know the website to view HUD properties, or how to dance with their specific contracts. Buying and selling a house is an emotional process. It's nice to have a clear impartial advisor guiding you with previous experience.
Sellers use an agent for a reason. They don't want to deal with buyers. My sister went the FSBO route a few years back. If it wasn't for my help she would have screwed everything up, and almost lost her buyer till I jumped in and found a way to create a sale where everyone won. It was as simple as bumping the purchase price 4000 bucks and giving it back in seller assist. My sister didn't even know about seller assist.
Just like any industry there are realtors out there that are self serving tool boxes that don't know what they are doing, and there are professionals who bring something to the table. I really don't care if you ever use a realtor or not. Actually most of the rental properties I own I bought before getting my RE license, and I did not use a buyers agent. I worked directly with the listing agent, and had them give 2% of the 6% of the commision to my closing costs. They represented the seller, and I had no one in my corner. I made some mistakes that cost some money. A buyers agent may have prevented those mistakes.
Everyone wants to bash the realtors and brokers. What ever happened to independent thinking. In 2005 I had a client with an 800 credit score that wanted a million dollar home, and could afford the start rate on an option arm, and was approved. They made 55k net a year. I convinced them that they could afford around 250k. I found them an estate property appraised at 375k that needed a little love. Purchase price 275k, and they rented the apartment over the garage for 700 a month. I think I earned my commision there.
When everyone is buying you sell. When everyone is selling you buy. If you need a bowl of cereal, go buy some milk.
Bottom Feeder in Philly
What a bunch of low class criminals
I also think that 4% will be the standard commision in the not so distant future.
More like 1%, maybe 2% tops ... even at 1%, if I buy a $500k house, the $5k commisison is still too much for the minimal amount of work a realtor does.
This being the internet age, we'll probably be paying a hundred bucks or so to list houses online soon with no realtors involved, and maybe a thousand bucks to a r.e. attorney to okay the deal as legit.
LOWER the price idiots. Price fixes everything.
Agreed, but do you realize that many over-inflated prices are due to realtors' coercion? I have friends in Arizona who are being told by realtors to list their house for nearly double (!) what comps have been selling for.
The bottom line:
Realtors are going away. The internet will negate the need for them, just like it did to travel agents.
"Realtors® add value to the real estate transaction"
Not in proportion to their obscene 6% commissions they don't.
And I absolutely hate that stupid trademark symbol thingy they use like they claim exclusivity on words for pete's sake...
And the real shame is this cartel is blocking off the MLS to the competition.
Anonymous said...
Keith, get real. They will just get a slap on the wrist and a fine.
October 21, 2007 2:58 PM
Normally I'd agree, however with the real estate market taking a dump and screwing so many sheep, a scapegoat will be needed. It sure as f#|< ain't gonna be the banks or the fed, so that leaves our favorite ramen eating tools.
There are two ways to handle this...
1) Undo the tremendous leverage in structured finance by refunding the amount paid upfront on the deals in the first place and cancelling the investment vehicles which never should've been originated. That means all folks who got a slice along the way have to give it up to make it all better. This will take the pressure off the system and bring about a moderate recession. But life goes on.
OR
2) Those who engaged in orgyesque bubble behavior refuse to give the ill-gotten gains back and, in which case, it's full-on Apocalypse time. Judging by Hank Paulsen's fix for the credit market freeze up, Paulsen's heading for option 2. MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL HANK!
How is this news? The complaint is dated Sept 7, 2005.
Could the DOJ help get the NAR thrown out the Halls of Congress?
My Perfect Dream:
I see the house I want to buy, contact the seller., we negotiate the price, a lawyer oversees title transfer, etc. and then I pay cash.
No Realtors, no Bankers, no Brokers.
I'm sure that's the way it was a hundred years ago, why not now?
When were realtors "invented" anyway?
Great news. I hope the DOJ goes through with breaking the monopoly, despite the many contributions of the NAR to congresspeople. It might help that congress cannot expect many contributions in the future from a starved organization with fewer and poorer due-paying members.
"The National Association of Racketeering" NAOR
When a member Realtor does not pay the annual board of Realtors dues by a certain date, in turn the Mid-Florida Regional MLS privileges are shut down , even all well knowing that the MLS/ Supra fees are paid up until March 2008 ? Correct..
Do you not feel that by these actions that the general public and the listings that have been effected By these actions now creates a hardship to the home sellers listings on your Mid-Florida Regional MLS system and the Realtor/Client fiduciary to there client has been affected in a monetary manner.
This action also has a large effect to home sellers and potential home buyers through out you entire MLS coverage areas, from what I have been reading in the news that about 10% of the greater Orlando Realtors have not renewed there board membership, so having said that all of 10% have been shut down from using your Mid-Florida Regional MLS system.
Another effect of this shut down of MLS to it agents, you are taking away there right to work ! As the listing agent, and to allow the listing agent access add new clients listing into your system knowing that the MLS dues are paid up..
Do you offer a refund of the MLS members dues back to the Board of Realtor members that you have shut out of the Mid-Florida Regional MLS?
Please tell me how any of this benefits the consumer especially in todays market and my last question is this.
"Why is it, the Mid-Florida Regional MLS has shut our Non-Realtors/Real Estate Agents, from participating in the Mid-Florida Regional MLS" it would seem to me as a unfair trade practice.
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/contact/newcase.htm
Included links
Http://www.mfrmls.com/
http://www.orlrealtor.com/Main/Main.asp
Wait until the news media picks up on that e mail they will have a field day with it
I must admit I love the title, and the letter make some very good valid points
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