October 23, 2007

Open thread about the fires in housing-crash-central Southern California



* What's the latest - any reports from the scene?
* How in the world will they value the destroyed houses? Comp or Mark to Market?
* Is there any benefit in having your home go up in flames vs. foreclosure or debt slavery?
* Will disasters like this make it even tougher to get (and keep) home insurance?
* Is Bush on this or is he doing another Katrina?

I truly feel sorry for anyone who has their home go up in flames (who didn't set the fire themselves).

Take a look around your home today - if you had 5 minutes to get out, what would you grab?


Exactly. 99% of your possessions are worthless or can be easily replaced. The other 1% and your family and pets - priceless.

Donate to the Red Cross here

114 comments:

Anonymous said...

We don't these people set up sprinkler towers around their homes? When the fire comes, turn a valve, bath their homes in a curtain of water.

Anonymous said...

.
.
.
Is Bush on this? Is he doing another Katrina? I hope that is a joke on your part Keith. Otherwise you have really gone to the dark side.

Brutus said...

Hey Folks!! This is too weird!!!!

The Sheriff of OC says these were arson: every Ca resident knows what and when the "Santa Anna Winds" may do/cause; look at the line of fires and their timing; thousands of homes burn in the most over-built region of the country; who gains (??????) e.g. Homebuilders & any and all in the construction trades; REI personnel all up and down the line; and lastly, all homeowners whose homes survive are now siting with a commodity in demand!!!!!!

In my opinion - it's very simple folks:

The overwhelmingly vast majority (if not all) of these fires were set by one of the above groups who profit from such a "Natural " (HA HA HA!) phenomena!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Insurance payouts are likely to be the much lower, cost to rebuild value. Not anywhere near what these homes are "valued" at in the recent past.

Out at the peak said...

Insurance (at least the kind I had) only covers replacement cost. So when I sold my property for $560K, I was only covered for $170K -- the estimated cost to rebuild the entire structure.

So if my house burnt down, I wouldn't just be able to buy a new home with comparable proceeds. It would need to be rebuilt and sold to get the most value out of the property. However, it would clearly not sell for as much as before a major fire. There would be burnt trees and structures for acres around.

borkafatty said...

...........
..........
.........
Sad but true like Katrina, your home burns to the ground, you can not just walk away thinking ...great I am Debt free from that Money Pit..Wrong! You have Insurance and replacement costs...Like the people that were affected by Katrina..they still had to pay their mortgages..But i suspect most said the hell with the mortgage, and this no doubt will be the same situation.

Your life is way more important than your possessions.

So when does that foreign money start flowing in to help these people...Anyone??..

"Crickets Chirping" ..Just as I suspected.

Mark in San Diego said...

Just got back from taking bags of cat/dog food to a pet evacuation center. . .Yes people - a fire puts everything into perspective - the junk can be replaced, but family, pets, and family pictures are more important than that 52 inch LCD.

I would guess that the fire will help some people out, as the rental stock will decrease, and 750 homes have been destroyed (
although there were 23,060 homes on the MLS this morning). . .in the long run, it could actually hurt SD county - insurance will go up again (similar to Florida insurance problems), and some people will just take the insurance money and run. . .the BIG problem will be trying to convince the insurance company that your house is worth 1.5 million, when foreclosed properties in the neighborhood are selling at 750K!!

I am downtown, so we only have bad smoke to contend with . . .the winds have died down, so things should improve quite a bit later today. . .

Cow_tipping said...

I believe they would give you thereplacement value of the structure. If your house cost 500K but its a 1945, 900 sqft POS, they may give you 45K to rebuild it, and you do that and continue your 500K loan payments to the bank. Anyone with first hand experience please pitch in.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.

keith said...

My question is - has anyone told Bush that there's fires in CA?

Is he coordinating FEMA response, engaging the state government, offering Federal assistance, maybe some troops?

Or is he being incompetent again?

I gotta believe Arnie is doing a good job, especially compared to Louisiana's incompetent government at the time

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

Bush is on it and has already set things in motion. Let's not forget the problem with Katrina was the corrupt scum garbage running that city and state, not Bush ... he's just the easy scapegoat for the media.

Hell I just sent yet another Louisiana deadbeat scum customer to collections, so don't even get me started on those wastes of human lives.......

In any case, yes, I'm sure insurance will be harder to get and there will be hundreds of lawsuits over the next year about corrupt insurance companies refusing to pay valid claims.

All is well here in Newport Beach save for the smell of smoke in the air yesterday, and my office in Irvine losing power for about 20 minutes.

keith said...

This map shows fire frequency

Must be tough to buy fire insurance in some of these areas - like hurricane insurance in Florida

http://propertyshark.com/mason/Maps/index.html?map=la&x=0.1684&y=0.6743333333333333&zoom=1&basemap=firefrequency&tab=themes

Anonymous said...

I sure hope the fires dont effect the price of CA avecados!

Anonymous said...

hello from San Diego,

Although it is horrific if your house burns down, it is not as bad as the media reporting. Most of the San Diego area is fine and as the previous person mentioned, the situation is getting much better.

About 1000 houses destroyed and many more damaged. My idiot brother in law (real estate agent) thinks this is great for the real estate market. He believes the values are about to go up again because of this - yeah right.

As far as response. It has been outstanding. At least the local authority got their stuff together and fast. Evacuated people on time and running around like crazy trying to put all these fires out. Even border patrol, navy and most military here in town are helping.

Thanks to all of those guys.

As far as Federal aid. You bet. San Diego is a republican town. Rancho Santa Fe (wealthiest town in the USA) is on fire. You bet there will be aid. After all, these are rich white people and not blacks. What a shame for America.

Anonymous said...

>> "Crickets Chirping" ..Just as I suspected.

Homo said what?

tim73 said...

"We don't these people set up sprinkler towers around their homes? When the fire comes, turn a valve, bath their homes in a curtain of water."

Well 100 feet flames really do not give a shit about your lovely sprinkler system.

Malibu and other suburbs just did not accept controlled fires (to emulate nature) to prevent this kind of vast field of wildfire because it might be smelly for a while!

IDIOTS! NO, correct that. FUCKING IDIOTS! Mother Nature is The Bitch!

Joe Obvious said...

California doesn't allow controlled burns due to some endangered rat and the fire rangers put out the brush fires way too quick so when a drought comes you end up with a huge underbrush tinderbox. Are you surprised this doesn't happen in the south? Duh!

Anonymous said...

"Let's not forget the problem with Katrina was the corrupt scum garbage running that city and state, not Bush ... he's just the easy scapegoat for the media."

Bush was at fault because he wanted to move FEMA into the department of homeland security.

Bush said "mission accomplished" even though it wasn't.

Bush killed SCHIP, even though republicans are supposed to value family.

Anonymous said...

First Law of Fire Insurance; You only write the insurance on the value of the "improvements", not the sale value of the property.
Reason; The Lot (underlying land that "improvement" is attached to)
does not burn, and thus cannot be damaged by fire.

JimAtLaw said...

6:12, I was thinking the same exact thing when I first heard about this whole thing on the news...

I don't know why sprinkler systems don't come with a standard "fire defense/flood" mode which activates sprinklers on top of the house as well as all the sprinklers in the yard simultaneously.

Anonymous said...

I'm no fan of Bush but come one, what can he or any president do? There are raging fires out there every year. It's a fact of life for CA. I don't care if it's Bush or Clinton or Mickey Mouse in the WH, this shit happens and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

As for Katrina, what people forget is that in Miss where Katrina also hit, rescue efforts were pretty good. And so was the immediate response afterwards. Same federal govt as in N.O. Only difefrence was in Miss the state govt is not the corrupt cesspool that is Louisiana.

bearmaster said...

On the one hand, housing stock will decrease, which tightens supply.

On the other hand, if people are scared out of the areas toasted crispy, demand will dwindle.

Which will it be...?

Anonymous said...

Bush killed SCHIP, even though republicans are supposed to value family.

October 23, 2007 8:23 PM


===================

Moron. Bush killed SCHIP because a low income program would have been available to people making $83K a year. Can you idiot socialist brain not understand why that is wrong?

California-moveaway said...

*****FLASH*****
THIS JUST IN....
Men arrested for the fires say they were hired by some Italian guy named "Angelo". He supposedly said something like "At least I know the damn mortgages are going to be paid off now".

Anonymous said...

San Diego guy...when 1000 homes burn home values do get affected whether you like it or not.

1000 fewer homes and 1000 new buyers overnight, all with insurance money ready to be spent

Anyone who thinks this won't affect pricig is a fool.

Plus this will stimulate the entire housing related industry as well. You have 1000 families who have to buy new appliances, new dishes, new furniture, etc.

BRUTUS said...

To Anonymous 7:51:

Your brain is filled with rubble:

#1 Disasters ALWAYS require an initial response from the areas' local immediate first-responders. Versus those in Louisiana the California units are excellently trained and quick and PROFESSIONAL - from top to bottom!

#2 The Louisiana State first-responders (in the case of Katrina) from the cry-baby female at the top to the Black (Mr. Fudd {minus the fringe on top} / Dope ) Mayor were just the opposite (as any visitors to the backward State would attest too.

#3 The FED's and Bush were under no logical obligation to DO ANYTHING UNTIL CALLED INTO ACTION BY THE APPROPRIATE STATE AUTHORITIES and they (FUDD and the stupid Demo b---h) were very late to do so!

Anonymous said...

insurance is usually cost to rebuild, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

Is he coordinating FEMA response, engaging the state government, offering Federal assistance, maybe some troops?
-----------------------------------

I believe it is the responsibility of the state's govenator to request assistance. State's typically don't like it if feds just descend and take over.

Anonymous said...

Don't forget that in California 75% of the home's value is in the land. If the house burns down, your insurance will only cover the improvement costs

borkafatty said...

>> "Crickets Chirping" ..Just as I suspected.

Homo said what?

---------------

trying to steal my lines huh Anonopuss..that's ok it was funnier when i tossed it at you.

Homo!

By the way Hows the Wife and my kids??..You better be feeding them.

Mammoth said...

“Your life is way more important than your possessions.”
------------------------
This is true in the literal sense of living vs. burning to death, but how many people can see that this also applies to trading your life for possessions?

That is – being a Debt Slave, by spending all your time working and worrying about paying bills just so that you can have that overpriced McMansion filled with plasma TV’s, etc., and an expensive, flashy luxury car parked outside?

There is some value in having a job which is close to your home, so that you do not spend so many hours of your life doing the daily commute through traffic hell, even if it pays less than one that is further away.

Living modestly and within your means, and avoiding debt can reduce stress in your life. Fill your life with things that matter – family, fun vacations, time spent doing what you like to do, rather than trying to fill that empty void within yourself with more possessions and mass-produced crap!

A colleague of mine suddenly dropped dead from a heart attack two weeks ago. He was ~50 years old. Man, that got me thinking about how everyone is living their lives. All the work he did, all that he had socked away for his retirement – it didn’t do him a bit of good in the end.

Live your life and enjoy yourself NOW, don’t spend it making others rich, because tomorrow may never come.
-Mammoth

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Insurance payouts are likely to be the much lower, cost to rebuild value. Not anywhere near what these homes are "valued" at in the recent past.

October 23, 2007 6:33 PM

--------------

Of course. Most of the "value" of a So. Cal. home is in the land/location.

Anonymous said...

To 8:44

I lived in a town where 500 homes burnt down (out of 5000). That was Los Alamos, NM, in 2000. It did not affect the market much.

here comes the judge said...

* Is Bush on this or is he doing another Katrina?

*********************************

Bush-co and his 5-year war-profiteering gang of thugs are asking congress for another $100+ BILLION for their illegal Middle-East wars AGAIN!

At the SAME time, Bin Laden has asked all alQuida members to unite against the USA.

Sounds like Bush-co BS to me!!

To bad our eleceted officials in DC are ALL a bunch of sad ass criminals, that have let Bush-co plunder our country into the whole that it's in now.

The Bush regime remains unchecked and out-of-control, and as far as I can tell, nobody can stop him, their nazi criminal network and their high crimes against humanity and the founders and citizens of America. Too bad. Too Sad. Impeachment would just be a slap on the wrist. They need to be sent to federal prison for life.

Another day of Bush mass-murders, theft, lies and humanity destruction.

USA 1776 to 2001

bearmaster said...

I very much doubt the fires are going to give a sustainable boost to the housing market. L.A. County and Orange County 1993 did nothing to stop the property slide, just make people feel more miserable about it.

Pouring aid dollars into this mess is yet another misallocation of resources.

Broken window fallacy

Anonymous said...

I hope all the faithful republican voters in San Diego County now realize that Bush will Katrinerize them just because they live in a Blue State and have a "maverick" Repub. Gov.

The Bush administration says that its sending some super tankers. Great, what are they going to do, dump their load in the pacific ocean? By the time the Bushites get the Tankers here Del Mar will no longer be known as the place where the surf meets the turf, but where the fire meets the surf.

And by the way, apparently the C130 tankers are at Point Mugu, just a short jaunt up the coast.

California wildfires should be defended in much the same way as NORAD is suppose to work. The moment a puff of smoke is seen during a Santa Ana wind event, the ariral tankers, scoopers and helicoptors should be instantly scrambled before the fire gets a headway.

Is it too much to ask that Government officials at least think that far ahead?

There is one Orange County Supervisor, Todd Spitzer, who held a news conference today and said that when this situation is investigated, he had better not find out that arial resources were sitting on the ground when they could have been used!

Go for it Todd, you are absolutely right.

Astute Observer

Anonymous said...

These fires will not help the real estate industry. The homeowner with the burnt down home will be paid by the insurance company to rebuild the home.

While the home is being rebuilt, the homeowner will be in a rental.

As a result, the rental market is what's going to go up. Between the burnt down homes and foreclosed/evicted families, there will be a demand for rental units.

The housing market is still headed into the toilet.

Anonymous said...

if i had 5 minutes to leave my house, what would i grab?

i will grab the promo for 1.5% teaser rate and suzanne's number.

Anonymous said...

The Canadians have been offering water bombers, fire helicopters and all sorts of trained fire fighting teams for days now. But it seems that so far there has been no response.

What on earth is going on? Is there some sort of administrative "we can handle this ourselves" attitude going on here.

Anonymous said...

Bush killed SCHIP, even though republicans are supposed to value family.

Again, if you CHOOSE to have kids and/or a fmaily, pay for them your FOOKING self!

brokersleaveyoubroke said...

Anonymous said...
San Diego guy...when 1000 homes burn home values do get affected whether you like it or not.

1000 fewer homes and 1000 new buyers overnight, all with insurance money ready to be spent

Anyone who thinks this won't affect pricig is a fool
----------------------------

No, doesn't work that way. There will not be 1000 new buyers, there will be 1000 property owners with just enough insurance money to rebuild a house on the existing lot. Those 1000 houses are only temporarily removed from the housing inventory. The only effect will be some work for local contractors. There's no way that lots in that prime area will be left vacant so the fires will have no affect on the housing market.

westwood said...

anonymous@8:44 said:
"1000 fewer homes and 1000 new buyers overnight, all with insurance money ready to be spent"

The inventory in San Diego proper alone is almost 24,000 homes, add in other coastal cities and it is almost 40,000. We could give a new home to each one of those people and not even notice it in the inventory.

BRUTUS said...

Attention All "FIRE TANKER DORKS:"

#1 Tankers (and especially "Rotors") are totally USELESS in High Wind FIRES!!!!

The buffeting will likely send them to the ground at low levels where they have nearly zero lift and that (wing/rotor-lift) is wildly affected by the unpredictable perturbations of a Wind Born Firestorm!!!!!!!

#2 Canuck "Hot Shot" ground attack teams would be totally helpless in the firestorm in So CA!

#3 Let the local professionals handle it!!

#4 And find out which REI/ Homebuilder CROOKS PAID some pyromaniacs to start all these fires at once: when they are found and convicted - GIVE THEM LIFE IN THE FED HOUSE OF NO RETURN!!!!!!!!!


PS I personally fought many more fires than I care to remember for the BLM in almost all the Western States - including SoCa in the late 60's and into the late 70's: I got out when they forced us to take on females, which action severely weakened all units and response teams and their actions/reactions at the BLM. US Forest Service and ALL state agencies. The fires have been raging out of control ever since!!!!!

No women can knock down a fire line in RAPID TIME!!!!

They are just not built for it adn they tire too quickly, i.e tiny amounts of Testosterone will not help anyone fight a fire - ever!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"Bush killed SCHIP, even though republicans are supposed to value family.

Again, if you CHOOSE to have kids and/or a fmaily, pay for them your FOOKING self!

October 23, 2007 9:41 PM"

-----------------------------------

Unless you are an illegal with 10 anchor babies, then it is our responisiblity or else we are racists....Oh and we must also pay for their hospital stay when they are giving birth to that anchor baby.

Mark in San Diego said...

Yes, Arnie was here yesterday, and was out at Qualcom (Chargers stadium) which is an evacuation center. . .he came off very well on this - spent a lot of time with kids there . . .can you imagine Bush doing something like this??. . .BTW - Arnie has had his picture in the Financial Time 4 times in the past 5 months. . .more than Bush!

My big plan has always been to return California to Spain (NOT MEXICO) and therefore we would be in the EU, have a strong currency, and Arnie would be prime minister. . .would certainly solve a lot of problems . . .most people in the US think we are a foreign country anyway.

ace said...

Living in So California ( orange County)... I already have my bag packed.. the only thing I have in it is in my prized Green
"SAVE THIS HOUSE" Rubber band........... ...Things are bad out here...I hope the wind stops soon./

anon666 said...

Not making light of the situation, but removing a couple thousand homes from San Diego county will certainly help sustain the housing market. After all, it is a bubble zone.

brokersleaveyoubroke said...

Wow, just saw on the news, 350,000 houses evacuated and the fire is growing.

Ron said...

Why can't we have an armored car that is fire proof to go in there in the fires? Then instead of water, shoot a gel that will put out the fire? I mean it just seems so archaic the way we do it now, and so sloppy, thought we should have evolved by now.

Anonymous said...

bubba...have you seen the price of pomegrante

Anonymous said...

Those FEMA trailers are going to be worth millions as soon as they hit that San Diego ground. Do you think someone will try to flip their's for big money?

Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com said...

I'm no fan of Bush but come one, what can he or any president do? There are raging fires out there every year. It's a fact of life for CA. I don't care if it's Bush or Clinton or Mickey Mouse in the WH, this shit happens and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

But everything is Bush's fault! If you get into a car accident, it's Bush's fault. If your kid does poorly in school, it's Bush's fault. If you don't get that big promotion, it's Bush's fault.

Don't you realize that this "not my fault" generation has named Bush the Supreme Scapegoat?

Nothing is your fault. Nothing is your responsibility. Just blame Bush and everything will be okay.

Anonymous said...

Nothing is your fault. Nothing is your responsibility. Just blame Bush and everything will be okay.

_____

This is bull. You've set up a strawman -- that of people blaming everything on Bush. Sorry, I don't see this anywhere I look.

Bush IS responsible for keeping us bogged down in the Iraq mess. That's quite enough.

Anonymous said...

Latest assement from southern california is 2.75 trillion in improvments and counting.

Anonymous said...

These So Cal fires are a good example of why renting is at times better than owning. Home ownership is getting more expensive as natural disasters continue to ravage communities.

Renters are mobile. Home owners stuck in disasters will have some major repair bills.

Anonymous said...

Nothing is your fault. Nothing is your responsibility. Just blame Bush and everything will be okay.

October 23, 2007 11:22 PM

==========

You should apply as editor in chief of the NY Times.

Princess Mononoke said...

OMG! I live next to Universal Studios in California. The south side of my sky is clear blue and the north side of my sky is dark brown. It's quite eerie out here.

My heart goes out to the thousands of families that have been displaced. Not to mention, the wildlife that have been killed or displaced by these firestorms.

This is awful and just adds to the misfortune we have been experiencing out here. I hope to G-d these fires were not started by an ARSONIST! SHAME ON THEM!!!!

The authorities do suspect arson, because some of the fires began along a street or highway.

I appreciate expensive gadgets and luxury items as much as the next person. However, I can live with them or without them. They don't make me or break me. My identity is not connected to what I have, my possessions. What's most important to me is who I am, how I treat others, the contributions I make to society.

Case in point, home is where your heart is. In the case of mandatory evacuations, I would be saving my family, my pets and photos. Nothing else matters. Like Keith said, ALL material items are replaceable!

Anonymous said...

Keith,

I'm shocked and apalled that you would let Bush off so easily here. After all, the most reasonable man in all of Islam, Minister L. Farrakhan suggested that Bush or his minions actually blew the levies in new Orleans to flood out only the black areas. Since this fire is devastating the Malibu area, well known bastion of socialists and uber liberal cry babies I'm surprised that as an ex-pat you are not suggesting that Bush, Cheney, Condie, Tommie Franks and Gen Petreus flew into SD under the cover of darkness and personally directed the hordes of Black Water Security employees they brought with to pilage and lay torch to the entire area in an effort to sway the next election cycle.

The reality is that just as in Louisiana, a famously failed effort in Democrat control, the state of California is responsible for its citizens and the Fed role is to assist when asked. I know believe that your protestations to the contrary aside, you are just another socialist liberal who is claimin to support an impossible candidate (Ron Paul) in an effort to split the Republican vote and assure a Democrat win. Assuming you sing Kareoke(?sp), you have much in common with Natalie Maines.

Anonymous said...

"My big plan has always been to return California to Spain (NOT MEXICO) and therefore we would be in the EU, have a strong currency, and Arnie would be prime minister. . .would certainly solve a lot of problems . . .most people in the US think we are a foreign country anyway."

I am trying to start a re-colonization party right now. England, France, Spain, and Holland are not interested at this time. Russia may bite if Sweden takes back Delaware. Denmark is thinking about the Virgin Islands, too.

Anonymous said...

Bush killed SCHIP, even though republicans are supposed to value family.

Again, if you CHOOSE to have kids and/or a fmaily, pay for them your FOOKING self!
--------------------------------------

exactly. Won't paying for all of a families critical needs just encourage them to continue to breed? If you can't afford a kid, then don't have any!

Anonymous said...

I would grab the following from my house:

LCD TVs
Laptop
Stero
DVD players
DVD collection
Pictures
Big bag of clothes
Mtn Bike
Road bike
Free weight set
weight bench
stationary bike
microwave oven
granite counter top
hummel collection
VHS porno collection
air hockey table
wet bar
and lastly..
my realtor's business card

bill said...

"Why can't we have an armored car that is fire proof to go in there in the fires? Then instead of water, shoot a gel that will put out the fire? I mean it just seems so archaic the way we do it now, and so sloppy, thought we should have evolved by now."

I don't know if that's realistic but the fact is that places like San Diego County have fought against taxes and the Fire Departments don't have the resources that they could have if they had more money.

samuel adams said...

http://scansandiego.net:7000/scanner.ogg

Listen as it happens in San Diego. Fire and some PD, but mostly fire from someone hosting a scanner on the net. Interesting stuff.

Also, if you have teamspeak2 (google it and download) someone is hosting ALL So. Cal fires and a bunch of other CA stuff around the state. Once you download teamspeak2, do a 'quickconnect' (from dropbox at top left)and paste:

radio.scannerbuff.net:8767

The person nice enough to host this has also put hyperlinks up to local gov., media, etc. and phone numbers for locals to call for info. Highly recommended.

BTW, I am not in CA but interested and listening to this is more info than most news channels. Prayers for all in CA.

sheep devestment said...

Here in Pasadena the sky is full of smoke. I find it interesting that there are no fires in the normal areas like the Southern Sierra. The news claims that 1300+ houses destroyed so far. To my mind this may fill rentals and create demand. I don't imagine anyone will come out ahead on this as insurance may rebuild but not make your payment or move you into new digs.

Anonymous said...

Mammoth--
You got that right....events like this have a way of reducing the truly un-important crap to rubble...At the end of the day, no one ever died wishing they would have spent more time at the office...

I am very happy to hear that the people of S. CA aren't going anywhere without their animals, which are like treasured members of their family--unlike Katrina, people are realizing they are responsible for their pet's safety, and are stopping at nothing to save them....GOD BLESS you all!--You are in our thoughts and prayers!!

Anonymous said...

As far as insurance goes, most mortgage companies will not even give you a note unless you have your homeowners' insurance agent send them your insurance binder. The amount must be for replacement cost, the theory being you could rebuild the same home and sell it for what your mortgage amount initially was (the rebuilt home + land), because they don't want to hold a note on a piece of land when they are owed the land plus improvement. Hopefully people had enough insurance; there is definitely a chance to be underinsured if you do not have adequate insurance if you've owned your home for a while. But then, the government usually steps in, but that is a whole other issue...

Matthew said...

No women can knock down a fire line in RAPID TIME!!!!

A bulldozer works faster than ten buff men.

Anonymous said...

There will be plenty of aid, now that it hit Rancho Santa Fe.

It's full of mostly white, and all rich members of Bush's Base.

The RNC desperately needs their cash, so they'll spend government money to get some.

Probably transfer it out of Louisiana.

Anonymous said...

Why can't we have an armored car that is fire proof to go in there in the fires?

There ain't no such thing. When you're really close up to these fires, they melt metal.

And what happens if the vehicle gets stuck in a ditch as the fire approaches?

Men die.

Then instead of water, shoot a gel that will put out the fire?

Water comes out of lots of hydrants and even reservoirs and lakes.
What happens when you run out of gel? These fires are BIG.

On brush water works as well as anything.

The right answer is what they're doing. Big helicopters, firebreaks and backfires.

Anonymous said...

Name one sane person that would blame Bush for a car accident or any of the other bs examples you mentioned. That is right you are just talking out your a$$.

Can we still blame Bush for Iraq? Does this make me a member of the "not my fault" generation? It probably does to you.

Princess Mononoke said...

WARNING!!!... Scumbag sleazy scam artists are using this firestorm Catastrophe for their gain! The scam artists are calling people across the U.S. and asking for donations to help the firefighters in California. They're even offering to come to your home to pick up the check, because of the urgency!

The firefighters NEVER, I repeat NEVER call and ask for donations/contributions. So please do NOT fall for this trap. You've been forewarned.

aloha said...

The emmigration of california.The San Diego Real Estate market will be affected to a huge level negatively by this fire long term primarily because insurance companies will not issue fire insurance anymore to the want to be buyer and the want to be buyer cannot buy the house without a mortgage and the lender will not lend money without insurance that covers at least the structure. The house prices are too high to outright buy your house. Existing insurance policies by law have to renew the policy after a disaster one more term and then they can cancel the fire policy on existing cusomers forever. Please do research on how much insurance companies have paid and will pay for these policies in california. It is by far far far in the best interest of insurance companies to stop insuring califorina fire policies and to terminate after next go around of existing policies. You will have an inabiliy of buyers to buy houses because they can't come up with the dough. And when insurance companies don't renew the policies after one term you will see alot of people in hot water. You will also see mortgage companies who insured in california taking a double beating and they won't lend to california without insurance. My prediction is long term decline in prices and californians thinking that other states don't sound so bad for work, houses and schools. The emmigration of california. A solution that could be required by insurers is a new gel(10 years old) that is biodegradable and is sprayed on houses and can be rewet and a fire can come through and anything that was sprayed will not burn. therefore the structures is saved cost minimal compared to rebuild. There will be a short lived sprint upswing initially in the housing market created by rent increase causing the P/E ratio of landlords to make sense to them to buy a house and also people who don't want to rebuild and use insurance money to buy existing home( more of this than the later) but this will pan out fairly quickly. Good Luck I hope I am wrong.

Anonymous said...

The fires........ It's mother nature's way of cleaning her house for the holidays.

Anonymous said...

"We don't these people set up sprinkler towers around their homes? When the fire comes, turn a valve, bath their homes in a curtain of water."

Well 100 feet flames really do not give a shit about your lovely sprinkler system.


Can 100 foot flames survive a rain storm? Not talking about Home Depot lawn sprinklers. These towers would drench your house in geysers of water. Only used when needed.

Building reinforced concrete dome homes is another option. Nothing to burn.

Anonymous said...

.



I live in Rancho Bernardo Ca!

We just got home, from our Mandatory Evacuation!

Our Home is safe and sound!

Lived here since '72,

Never seen anything like that!!!

Hope not to again!!


Thank God!

Many homes lost!


Pray for us, we still need it!




Thanx!!!!!!







.

Anonymous said...

Apparently ou no longer let through posts that are critical of you being critical. How liberal.

Andrew Hac said...

Quote:
#####
believe they would give you thereplacement value of the structure. If your house cost 500K but its a 1945, 900 sqft POS, they may give you 45K to rebuild it, and you do that and continue your 500K loan payments to the bank. Anyone with first hand experience please pitch in.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
#####

Go, FB. What a field goal !

Andrew Hac said...

Quote:
#####
Bush killed SCHIP, even though republicans are supposed to value family.

Again, if you CHOOSE to have kids and/or a fmaily, pay for them your FOOKING self!
#####

Bravo ! Bravo ! Bravo.

I applause you with both hands.

Yes, that is 100% correct. If you can not afford insurance for the kiddo, then DON'T HAVE KIDS. As a matter of fact, DON'T HAVE SEX. As a matter of fact, TURN GAY or HOMOSEXUAL. If you are poor, that is because you are ignorant, uneducated, don't go to college or did not finish college. That is your mistake and now you will face the consequence of that mistake. Don't dumb your kiddos well-being on me. I could not care less about your kids than a stray cat on the street. Again: if you are poor, then try not to be poor !!!

End of subject !

Anonymous said...

Fires are a serious matter . I lost a family member to a fire 5 years ago because she went back into the house to try to save some items .

When I think about all the vacant homes held by investors ,while people are now homeless by Katrina and the California fires .Something is really wrong with this picture .

Think about all the money that is loss in business everyday that locations and freeways are shut down because of fires .

Sure ,some people will get some construction jobs out of the re-building of the homes ,but this will not offsit the economic damage .

Anonymous said...

plenty o insurance scams!

Anonymous said...

{Just blame Bush and everything will be okay}

What a hoot; there is one thing he does not want to be totally in charge of.

(Make that 2, General Lute. ;) )

Lost Cause said...

Bush has promised to do his utmost to help in this emergency.

That is why aid will arrive three days after the emergency has started, just as soon as the Santa Ana winds are over, and the fires are going out.

the Responsible said...

frank,
Yep According to Bush himself, nothing is ever his fault either. I hear ya frank, i hear ya..no personal responsibility top to bottom in america.

a_builder said...

I know of 3 people for sure (and I think there are many more) who took advantage of the firestorm to torch their own pads. But don't they still have the toxic mortgage?? Are the insurance companies gonna take this lying down?

a_builder said...

I know of 3 people in my hood who torched their own homes under the cover of the firestorm. Blatantly obvious, but who's gonna question them?

Anonymous said...

check out the smoke on weather radar
while it lasts !


http://www.weather.com/outlook/health/allergies/map/92646?from=36hour_map&mapdest=/maps/local/local/us_close_lax_ultra_lax/1b/index_large.html

Anonymous said...

Has anyone ever come to think that maybe, just maybe, these fires are all being started by firefighters themselves. Does the average Joe, or for that matter the average Jane, realize just how much financial incentive firefighters have when they "fight" the fires. Some of these guys are making upwards of $800 dollars a day. The longer it takes to fight the fire, the more cash these guys make.
So I ask you, "where is the incentive here? To fight the fire, or to prolong it as long as you can so you can get as much greenback as you can. I think the answer is pretty obvious. Could it actually be that these guys are actually behind the fires, setting them in strategic locations? Naw, the're our heroes, aren't they?

Anonymous said...

Has anyone ever come to think that maybe, just maybe, these fires are all being started by firefighters themselves. Does the average Joe, or for that matter the average Jane, realize just how much financial incentive firefighters have when they "fight" the fires. Some of these guys are making upwards of $800 dollars a day. The longer it takes to fight the fire, the more cash these guys make.
So I ask you, "where is the incentive here? To fight the fire, or to prolong it as long as you can so you can get as much greenback as you can. I think the answer is pretty obvious. Could it actually be that these guys are actually behind the fires, setting them in strategic locations? Naw, the're our heroes, aren't they?

Anonymous said...

Having been evacuated from a flood/fire situation....I know what I grabbed before.---my weed. It is a good time to be high with nothing to do...especially knowing your stuff is burnt/floating.

k.w. - southern ca. said...

Well, I have family members, relatives and past friends who are (or were) living in these wooded areas, something I always thought was too risky - both in cases of flooding and fire.

I wish these people the best, and hope they can get back on their feet as soon as possible. I also hope they think twice about wanting to live again in secluded forest regions - the desire for privacy from the general population is just not worth it.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:53 p.m. said
The Canadians have been offering water bombers, fire helicopters and all sorts of trained fire fighting teams for days now. But it seems that so far there has been no response.

What on earth is going on? Is there some sort of administrative "we can handle this ourselves" attitude going on here
---------------------------

"What on earth is going on? Are you kidding me? Both Bush and Swarzanegger have already called for both state and federal "emergency" situations. this is Nothing Less than "code word" for CASH infusion. Whenever states of emergency are officially called, the cash infusion BENEFITS interested parties.

And just who are those interested parties? Well for starters, emergency departments, e.g. FIRE DEPARTMENTS, POLICE DEPARTMENTS, ETC. make a KILLING (financially) off of these situations. Many times, they make many times their annual salary with the triple OVERTIME PAY, HAZARD PAY, etc. etc. It is NOT unheard of for firefighters making over $200,000 with overtime pay as a result of these situations!

Do YOU think they want to RESOLVE these fire storm situations any time soon? Believe me, they are laughing all the way to the bank! And they are triple laughing at all of us when we call them "heroes" while their UNION rules do everything they can to screw the taxpayer out of their hard earned money!

Have you ever asked yourself, just what kind of accountability our "heroes" have when it comes to fighting fires? Seriously, how do we know that a fire that took 10 days to put out really couldn't have just taken 7 or even 6 days to put out? Who watches these people anyways? Where's their accountability? Or are we just presumptively supposed to call them "HEROES" just because of the kind of suit they don? Seriously everyone, give me a break!!!!!!!!

oldsport said...

I don't want to see anyone hurt but I don't give a fuck about their McMansions roasting.

Anonymous said...

Man all this talk of sheelple this and sheeple that and yet you fools are the biggest sheep of all.

You are buying into the MSM bullshit about the fires. Oh no!! A disaster. Government must spend money. Socialism must be advanced.

Fuck that. You live in California. Expect fires. Expect earthquakes.

You live in New Orleans, expect flooding.

You live in Maine, expect snow storms.

You live in Texas, expect tornadoes.

And so on.

I am so sick and tired of every natural event being trated like front page news. Weather happens. It always happens. It has always happeneda and it will always happen in the future. Here is my prediction: next year there will be fires in California.

Anyone who is following this story 24/7 on CNN is the biggest idiot of all.

Anonymous said...

the insurance companies will compensate the homeowners after they cash out their hedge funds.

bwa ha ha ha

Anonymous said...

You are buying into the MSM bullshit about the fires. Oh no!! A disaster. Government must spend money. Socialism must be advanced.

Fuck that. You live in California. Expect fires. Expect earthquakes.

You live in New Orleans, expect flooding.

You live in Maine, expect snow storms.

You live in Texas, expect tornadoes.

And so on.
=====================
So I take it you are against progress then? Maybe we shouldt have built bridges, damns, rail, power generators, highways etc.?

That's all just fuckin socialism.

If you find yourself in a wilderness then expect trees, rain, cold, blizzards, hunger, predatory animals, the whole thing. You just cant change things.

I mean what do you dudes ecpect, you cant beat mother nature. Any attempts to control nature is just another attempt at "socialism".

Whatever the hell "socialism" means.

Anonymous said...

I don't give a fat, fiddle-less, flying fuck about these SoCal scumbags and their roasted houses.

They reap what they sow.

build cluster homes next to man-made forest, that you don't clear because of your liberal politicians want to protect some endagered rat... this is what you get.

go look at pictures of SoCal from 1900... it was desert all the way to the ocean, and for a reason.

every piece of green you see is manmade and the water is SUCKED with 'MILF whore force' out of the Colorado River.

Jeff in Florida said...

Keith,

This blog sure has attracted quite a bit of Right-wing, Shrub loving, Republi-scum..

Oh that's right everyone on here makes 100K or more so they benefited the most from the Bush tax breaks.

I'll be over at Ben's blog. I want to hear about the housing crash, not a bunch of a-holes trying to defend this criminal and incompetent administration.

I think "Frank@Scottsdale-Sucks.com" is actually Anne Coulter in drag.

Anonymous said...

Nobody's against progress. We're against stupid people.

Fire? Flood? Earthquake? You're not stopping those with so-called "progress." Nobody is - ever. It's the height of stupidity to fight mother nature, and yet the rebuilding of those areas goes on. It doesn't show "persistence" and "heart" to rebuild in areas of frequent natural disasters, IT IS STUPIDITY.

I don't see a link to socialism in any of this, but carry on with the senseless posturing if you must. What one person does with their money ( buying / rebuilding a home ) has nothing to do with the government. The government can't tell people to live anywhere.. each person makes that decision all on their own.

SCHIP is a fiscally sound program.. it's a net positive for every child. It keeps children out of the hospital stays which result 100% of the time without the SCHIP drugs and are more costly. Why are Republicans against saving money? :) The only reason Republicans use the word socialism is for the sound-bite effect.. but hey, that's because they would rather kill children than support sound public policy.

pennywise said...

The worst is over. Winds last night were only 20mph max, compared to huricane force 50-75mph winds Sunday night.

None of the media outlets are even touching the housing bubble aspects yet.

Anonymous said...

.


Just think of all the homes that were in foreclosure or going in to foreclosure that went up in flames !


Now thats a bail-out!



.

Anonymous said...

I am writing this from San Diego..

it's worse than hell, the only saving grace is people. I have never seen this level of rescue efforts.. cooperation or compassion..

most evacuation sites like Qualcomm stadium have more than they need.. they have asked people to stop bringing stuff.. people are offering free what nots.. free internet.. free clothes.. even movies on demand are free on cable.. there are entertaines.. clowns.. games for kids etc at Qualcomm stadium..

This is a true example of what the people of this city can do for each other.. I would never leave San Diego ever for any other city after witnessing this..

The City government has done a good job.. hats off to the Mayor Jerry Sanders.. The coordination among different agency is commendable.. With the minimal resources they have to fight fires like this they have done an awesome job.. You will see lot's of hills completely burn but homes on top were safe..

Bush and the federal government seems rather kind to San Diego.. I never saw a reaction like this for katrina.. could be the voter profile.. and that's actually sad..

long life San Diego!!

vegas crash watcher said...

Just like the San Francisco earthquake led to the Panic of 1907, maybe this will lead to a much-needed stockmarket crash. Burn, baby, burn.

k.w. - southern ca. said...

The real unsung heros are those that work honestly, without the protection of union entitlements, who are always forced to foot the bill for are public service employees.

If we are to use the term "HERO" now, it would have to be our young solders dying and fighting for a needless war in Iraq who have little or no financial protection, earn meager wages, have to haul heavy equipment in extreme heat and cold conditions, and have no idea if they'll be alive in the next 5-minutes.

The ironic part is, many fire officials and police officers live (or lived) within these canyon communities - like Silverado Canyon, which was one of the hardest hit in So. Ca. Several fire officials and employees live in this area alone, which can also be said for the neighboring canyon communities.

Again, in these peoples minds, the desire to live away from the general population (or certain groups of people) always outways the risk of living in a flood and fire prone area.

They should be compensated fairly for their loss, but no more - since they are fully aware of the risks in living in such areas - which really should never have been zoned for residential property in the first place.

Anonymous said...

am writing this from San Diego..

it's worse than hell, the only saving grace is people. I have never seen this level of rescue efforts.. cooperation or compassion..

most evacuation sites like Qualcomm stadium have more than they need.. they have asked people to stop bringing stuff.. people are offering free what nots.. free internet.. free clothes.. even movies on demand are free on cable.. there are entertaines.. clowns.. games for kids etc at Qualcomm stadium..

This is a true example of what the people of this city can do for each other.. I would never leave San Diego ever for any other city after witnessing this..

In direct contrast to how we treated the Negra's in New Orleans, eh?

Anonymous said...

You are buying into the MSM bullshit about the fires. Oh no!! A disaster. Government must spend money. Socialism must be advanced.

Fuck that. You live in California. Expect fires. Expect earthquakes.

You live in New Orleans, expect flooding.

You live in Maine, expect snow storms.

You live in Texas, expect tornadoes.

And so on.


You live in New York City, expect Islamic terrorism!

What, you want us to send our soldiers to blow up some raggies over there?

Oh wait, you do! You're not serious. You are? A land war and occupation in Islamic Asia? And you think that's patriotic and not insane and full of socialist government contracts?

Anonymous said...

They should move the refugees to all the vacant homes in Phoenix and Las Vegas.

BRUTUS said...

Brutus answers a few DOPES!:

Matthew 2:19 "Ten buff guys versus a cat?" What a stupid comment!!!

#1 Cats are ONLY used to build fire lines AFTER PEOPLE (PREFERABLY MEN HAVE) Dope!!!!!!!

Cats ( from D3's all the way up to D9's) only move by truck on roads long after a fire has already been lost control of: the critical time is in the first 5-30 minutes during which time the first responders are either trucked as in So Ca or choppered ("Helitacked")!!!!!

#3 As for your "Buff" comment - in my day we throughly thrashed/beat up/rolled fruitcakes, which needs to be done today in my opinion!

"Buff" males are too obsessed with their bodies to fight fires and would not stand the heat/grime/ sparks/pain of firefighting blazes like you all are watching!!!

#4 A good "Helitack Team" ( 6-8 men {preferably [that is if you want to put out a fire rather than just SCREW around] } ) can outdistance a cat any day when building the initial lines of containment, which is what has been needed for the last four days in So Ca! If you want a clean-wide Fire line/lane/road then its the CAT'S!

#5 Cats would be helpless in some of those canyons, i.e. they would roll off the hills on any gradient at or beyond (roughly 67%)

#6 Men (preferably) are the only way to gain an advantage in the early stages: Cats come later - DOOOOOOPE!!!!!!!

TO Andrew Hac: You Got IT!!!!

TO Anon 6:28:

Yes, very sadly you are right - I have seen what you speak about personally - very sad - BUT VERY TRUE!!!!

Some of the biggest Arsonists right there in Caleeeeeeeeeeeeeefornicka have been FIREFIGHTERS!

Gotta Go make money this market is TOO much fun ( and the fuuuun rolls to Asia now ) and so easy to predict right now!

Se Ya!!!!!

Professor said...

1600 or more houses burned to ashes mean AT LEAST $1.5-$2B in new "growth" in SoCal to rebuild, including lots of jobs for illegal Mexicans and lots of demand for check cashing businesses and building supply companies in the region!!! Oh, joy!!!

Buy SoCal lenders (those that are left), HD, LOW, KBH, TOL, ETH, LEV, BBBY, BBY, WSM, and so on!!!!

The fires came just in time to avoid a depression in SoCal and a recession for the US and global economies!!!

Yippeeeee!!!!!!!!

Happy, happy, joy, joy!!!

P.S. The PacNW housing market should get a BIG boost from all those burned-out Californicators giving up and moving to Portland/Vancouver, Bend, Eugene, Salem, Medford, Ashland, Seattle, Olympia, etc. Those SoCalies will happily accept rain 24/7 and year round versus Hell on earth every few years.

Anonymous said...

.




Out of the ashes we will rise again!


from San Diego Rancho Bernardo!!!



.

Anonymous said...

.


San Diego,


Is Truly Americas Finest City!!!!


This Tragic fire has proved it!


From Mayor Jerry Sanders and

Ron Roberts

Two stand up guys who took the bull by the F'n horns!

The citizenry took care of their neighbors and strangers alike!

Mountains of Donations

We the people without government interference can do anything and in timely fashion!!!!!!!

GOD BLESS all the good folks of San Diego!

Thanks for your prayers, keep prayin!

Prayer changes things!!!

GOD Bless America!!!!

Anonymous said...

Illegal aliens were arrested in San Diego for stealing relief supplies, this was reported on the John and Ken show in Los Angeles (AM 640).

Those Latin savages will stop at nothing.

Odd that Mexico didn't have any fires, come to think of it.

AndyfromSimi said...

"Brownie, you doing a heck of a job!"

Mr. President,

When you get out to California, don't forget to give a thumbs up to our man on the ground who's coordinating everything. Just remember your line above for any camera shots.

Signed,
Big Slim
Your crack, ace-in-the-hole, P.R. Team Director

Anonymous said...

.


Bill Clinton to the citizens of San Diego,

"I feel your pain"!


San Diego to Bill Clinton,

"Go F**K yourself"!


.

Anonymous said...

I stayed at the property during the mandatory evacuation in order to
prepare the sprinklers to be turned on if necessary. I watched about 5 to 7
of my neighbors homes burn to the ground.

I finally got help from emoryville firefighters (Northern Ca.)and watched a spectacular
airial attack on the Mt. Woodson Fire on tuesday.

The difference here vs new Orleans is money and education, and a place to rebuld.

Anonymous said...

.


I also watched the airtankers drop on Mt. Woodson on the northside and west end,

We must live close to each other


Small world.




.