October 02, 2007

It's funny that everyone thinks they're getting rich as stocks go up (in dollar terms) while meantime the dollar is tanking


"It doesn't matter how many dollars you can accumulate, it matters what they're worth"

- Peter Schiff, Euro Pacific Capital, on CNBC today, arguing that these Dow gains are an illusion, as the Dow measured in US dollars is down against gold, oil, Canadian dollars, euros, or hell, even soybeans. And ya know what, he's right, but not many people get it. Yet.

72 comments:

Anonymous said...

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you silly renters change your story every day

1st stocks will crash

then stocks will rise but in reality since inflation is so high they are really crashing

then housing will crash and miraculously inflation will be going crazy while assets are falling

and even more amazing gold will go up while at the same timea recession/depression will be taking place

so we will have hyperinflation, falling assets, a depression and gold at $5000 all happening at the same time

oh and also during hyperinflation, renting will be better since somehow rents will be excluded from the price runups

amazing

Anonymous said...

Re: EuroPacificCapital

Are their fees high? Read something like 3.5% each side of a trade.

Anonymous said...

Exactly what I've been sayin' all along.

The stock market is now nothing more than a fake store-window exhibit to convince the sheep that the economy is fine.

Anonymous said...

you silly renters change your story every day...

Asset prices will collapse (DEFLATION)

Necessities (food, energy) will get more expensive. (INFLATION)

It's called the worst of both worlds.

so we will have hyperinflation, falling assets, a depression and gold at $5000 all happening at the same time

Doesn't that describe Weimar Germany. Though I'm sure a troy oz of gold was stratospheric in Marks...

Anonymous said...

you silly renters change your story every day

Yeah, isn't economics confusing. You think you're doing great but then ooops! looks like you're not doing so great after all. If only there was a single number that showed you great your stocks were doing we could all be rich and live happily ever after.


http://www.europac.net/faqs.asp#5

Anonymous said...

"you silly renters change your story every day"

the story doesn't change, just the explanation. have you looked at the rising number of "home owners" who don't own their own home by the time the retire?

Anonymous said...

Hahaha! That video is great. I love how the media keeps dragging Peter Schiff out as the village idiot and he consistently makes them look like the idiots (of course, they don't think so).

Great stuff!

Melissa Francis: "I don't buy anything with Canadian dollars"

Ha ha!

impeach the chimpster said...

It's called trickle up.

Anonymous said...

look you imbeciles pick one or the other...either inflation is coming or it's not...you cannot have inflation AND falling asset prices

if you think hyperinflation is coming, load up on as much debt as you can and buy up as much real estate as you can....keeping your money in a 5% CD while inflation is 20% is beyond idiotic

bam-bozzeled said...

For the first time in American history, Americans recorded a negative average in savings accounts.

That's -$0.00 or below.

And bush STILL insnt fired?

Hmmm.... something fishy is going on around here. Like wiffle-waffle... or flim-flammy or even ka-hootelmoogered.

Inst bush doing one heckuva job!

go republicans go!

Anonymous said...

"you cannot have inflation AND falling asset prices"

Well that's exactly what we have today! Idiot!

Anonymous said...

Funny. Neither of the tools vs. Peter understood what inflation was. Ha Ha.

Anonymous said...

This Peter Schiff character reminds me of a friend in college. He had a 1 track mind regarding movies. Whenever the subject turned to movies he'd bring out the same argument as to why Godfather was over rated. Didn't matter if the topic was Ferris Bueller or Pulp Fiction or Easy Rider, he'd bring up The Godfather.

Shciff is the same way. One trick pony, inlfation, inflation. Yawn.

Fine the dow is down against soybeans. OK it's up against Phoenix condos. And also irrelevant since I use dollars to buy shit not Phoenix condos or Canadian dollars or soybeans.

Oh and I hear The Godfather is overrated...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"you cannot have inflation AND falling asset prices"

Well that's exactly what we have today! Idiot!

=============

inflation only exists in the minds of HPers and other extremists who see a conspiracy in their alphabets soup

Anonymous said...

"you cannot have inflation AND falling asset prices"

Look around...

Energy and food prices are going up.

Home prices are going down. Purchasing power of the U.S. dollar is going down.

If you're being technical and you actually mean Currency Dilution when you say inflation, that's happening. Fed is going to try to monetize debt away with the printing presses. Won't help home prices because demand dries up when credit dries up. Foreign countries aren't going to keep lending us money when they get paid back in funny money (currency inflation).

Anonymous said...

2005 realtor: real estate only goes up, they aren't making any more land, buy now or be priced out forever

2007 HPer: gold only goes up, they aren't making any more gold, buy now or you'll be priced out forever


2005: David Lereah says you can't miss with real estate

2007: Peter Shciff says you can't miss with gold

Anonymous said...

Here's another good one from Peter Schiff describing the Dow relative to inflation (that's real inflation not Fed inflation) over the last seven years.

http://tinyurl.com/2c3oow

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...

"you cannot have inflation AND falling asset prices"

Well that's exactly what we have today! Idiot!

=============

inflation only exists in the minds of HPers and other extremists who see a conspiracy in their alphabets soup

October 02, 2007 10:49 PM
----------
Its called stagflation and it was caused by a conspiracy called OPEC in the 1970s

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
2005 realtor: real estate only goes up, they aren't making any more land, buy now or be priced out forever

2007 HPer: gold only goes up, they aren't making any more gold, buy now or you'll be priced out forever


2005: David Lereah says you can't miss with real estate

2007: Peter Shciff says you can't miss with gold

October 02, 2007 10:53 PM
-----------
Good point. FYI - Its spelled Schiff

Anonymous said...

So we can't have falling asset prices and high inflation? I guess the 1970s just disappeared then. We only had something called STAGFLATION. These naysayers are so stupid.

Anonymous said...

You know... I mentioned this exact thing months (if not over a year) ago.

What is going on in the world housing market is EXACTLY what happened in Toronto, ON Canada back in the 70's and 80's.

Back in 75, a house cost 40K, and a good salary was about 10 to 12K/year.

By 76, the prices jumped to 80K - and most people believed that this was just a temporary thing.

By the mid to late eighties - the same house was going for over 300K... and then the market just stopped.

By the late 90's this house dropped to the 240K range. However, while a decent salary at the start of this coaster ride was around 10K, by the 90's it was between 60-70K.

Does anyone notice anything?

10K x4 = 40K
60K x4 = 240K

The total "VALUE" of the house didn't change in 30 years - but in the meantime, because of inflation and pressure to drive wages up everything went back to an equlibrium.

It HAS to... otherwise no one would buy a house.

Overall, there were just as many losers as there were winners over those 30 years

So... for all you morons who think that house prices can't drop... you might be right - but then the VALUE of the money in your bank account will.

And for those of you who are waiting for the crash to happen so that you can jump on a good deal - fat chance! When the crash happens, you'll probably lose you're job and you'll be too busy trying to buy food.

Sure... there will be alot of people who will be kicked out of there homes, and a few who will "strik it rich"... but gimme a break. The PTB are the PTB for a reason - they KNOW how to stay in power.

IB

Anonymous said...

1st stocks will crash, then stocks will rise but in reality since inflation is so high they are really crashing

Overall stocks are likely to revert to whatever prices will yield a rate that slightly outpaces inflation, hen climb accordingly (NOT 'soar'). That means that stocks may function as a riskier store of value, however if we hyperinflate, all bets are off in that more money will likely head into commodities

then housing will crash and miraculously inflation will be going crazy while assets are falling

This is possible. Housing can perform very different than other assets for one reason: For most buyers it is a highly leveraged asset, and the financing is very long term (residential, anyway). High inflation will ensure that mortgage lenders will charge a premium rate to compensate them for the risk of the long-term debt. Higher rates = lower house prices, due to purchasing power issues. Additionally, credit will tighten, further reducing buying power.

and even more amazing gold will go up while at the same time a recession/depression will be taking place

There is no official definition of depression, other than that it is a bad recession. Again, high interest rates are likely to limit growth, possibly leading to negative growth, which is a recession. If the high rates are due to inflationary forces, gold will typically perform well. Gold may not skyrocket relative to other currencies, but you can be assured that it rises against currencies that are being devalued.

so we will have hyperinflation, falling assets, a depression and gold at $5000 all happening at the same time

Not far from what happened in Argentina. Everything will price according to perceived risk. "Falling assets" is too vague a phrase to be of any use in this argument. You may as well say "Falling prices". Prices of what? Leveraged assets will likely fall in price. Unleveraged assets will price according to perceived risk, and potential return. Energy companies may do well, travel and leisure - who knows? Retail and restaurant - not good. People will be buckling down on their spending.

oh and also during hyperinflation, renting will be better since somehow rents will be excluded from the price runups

This is harder to predict. IF we wind up in a severe recession, rents will be set by the market's ability to pay rent. Pricing will probably be very efficient. If we have rampant unemployment coupled with high inflation, rents will likely go down. If employment holds steady, rents will likely rise due to the higher number of financially distressed families losing their homes and needing to rent.

Here is the funny thing - had people not overextended themselves to such a degree, they might have gotten a free get out of jail free card by inflation wiping out the cost of their debt. However, they often can't stay solvent long enough for the inflation to work it's magic. This will not be a repeat of the 70's inflate-away-the-debt.

Margin call, gentlemen.



amazing


I'm calling you out, anon 9:45. I think that you are mis-stating the opinions expressed on this board, and retorting in a most adolescent manner.

I had a hunch about your financial knowledge as well. "falling assets" just seemed a little too generic for me. So I googled the phrase. 504 hits. That's all. Anyone with any real knowledge in this area would not have used such a meaningless term. And ending with 'amazing' shows further that your attacks are emotional and personal. Any reply from you without a solid economic argument will be further proof that I won the argument.

That was good. I need a cigarette.

Anonymous said...

2005 vs. 2007

The problem with your analogy is you're comparing a majority view (conventional wisdom) vs. a minority view. David Lereah view was widely accepted. That was the sell signal. Especially, when something appears on the cover of Time. Schiff's is contrarian right now. Buy signal. Ditto for residental real estate vs. gold. When buying gold appears on the cover of Time you know the top is in. Time to sell. LOL

Anonymous said...

For the Federal Reserve, rapid rate cuts might eventually have to be the order of the day. Politically, it's difficult to imagine US policymakers presiding over rising unemployment and shrinking economic activity, whatever the rate of inflation. The story, though, might not end there. Falling US interest rates would make the control of inflation even more difficult within the emerging world, eventually increasing the temptation to "go it alone" and leave the dollar to its own destiny. Might this lead to a dollar collapse, a loss of US monetary credibility and the end of an economic pax Americana?

Perhaps this is a fairy-tale too far. I sense, though, that recent events are not a one-off, a repeat of LTCM. Instead, the story unfolding is one full of sub-plots, geographical intricacies and economic dependencies. It may finish happily ever after. But it might, instead, end up like one of those novels from my namesake, a horrific mixture of weak growth, sticky inflation and, ultimately, a loss of confidence in the dollar's status as a reserve currency.

Stephen King is managing director of economics at HSBC

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/comment/article3015584.ece

Anonymous said...

2005 vs. 2007

The problem with your analogy is you're comparing a majority view (conventional wisdom) vs. a minority view. David Lereah view was widely accepted. That was the sell signal. Especially, when something appears on the cover of Time. Schiff's is contrarian right now. Buy signal. Ditto for residental real estate vs. gold. When buying gold appears on the cover of Time you know the top is in. Time to sell. LOL

Anonymous said...

The world’s economic system is built on trust. Money is no longer backed with tangible assets. The only thing giving that Jackson in your wallet purchasing power is the perception that it will be able to buy a similar batch of goods tomorrow as it can today. But here is the catch. There is no standard that determines what a dollar is worth—ultimately it’s all relative. Its value could disappear overnight.

The same is true for every currency, whether yen, ruble or peso. Each is backed by confidence—confidence that the government will act responsibly, confidence that the government will honestly pay its debts (not just print more money), and confidence that the currency will remain a store of wealth.

When that confidence is broken, faith-based economic systems go into meltdown. Investors and international banks flee, currency values plummet, inflation runs rampant and economies are destroyed.

In August, when fallout from America’s popping housing bubble began to hit the market, trust in America cracked—and with it, so too did confidence in the global economic system.

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=4288.2525.0.0

Anonymous said...

The stock market really doesn't have anything to do with the economy people, nothing, zilch, nada, get it? If any of you took economics in college you learned that wall street and main street are completely separate, no matter how hard the media tries to tie them together. The stock market is a very pyschological game, period. A bull market can mean people are shoving money into stocks, thus not spending it buying crap like plasmas and overpriced homes.

Rising stock market + falling home prices and sales = People not buying useless crap = major recession coming

The question is how bad will it be?

Anonymous said...

When that confidence is broken, faith-based economic systems go into meltdown. Investors and international banks flee, currency values plummet, inflation runs rampant and economies are destroyed.

It wasn't always like this. Once upon a time in a place we call history, money was backed by gold and actually had some physical value.

PS - Ron Paul wants to bring back the gold standard so vote Ron Paul!

Anonymous said...

Couldn't a crash in the US dollar be an extremely politically destabilizing situation? The USA would lose it's status as world power and protector of the Earth. Then what? The globe is pretty much up for grabs. Better start learning how to eat with chopsticks!

Anonymous said...

.



Mmmmmm....Sheep!




Dopes




.

mrmx said...

"The USA would lose it's status as world power and protector of the Earth."

I doubt it. The one thing I believe is that, after looking around, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Populations are aging in Japan, China, Europe, the US, etc... and that's going to be a strain on growth.

Anonymous said...

The Dow first peaked at just over 14,000 on July 20th. It just went over 14,000 again on October 1st. So if you had your money in the Dow during that time you've broken even.

Now here's what else has been happening during that same time period
GLD (Gold) went from 67.13 to 73.49, that's up 9.47%
SLV (Silver) went from 132.33 to 136.86, that's up 3.42%
FXE (Euros) went from 138.51 to 142.43, that's up 2.83%
Oil went from approximately $74/barrel to $81/barrel, that's up 9.45%
The dollar index went from about 81 down to 78, that's DOWN 3.7%

So, even though your DOW index fund hasn't gone down, you can't buy as much gold, oil, silver, euros, corn, wheat, etc. etc.

Any gains you are seeing in the stock market are being offset or exceeded by declines in the value of the dollar.

At the same time look at housing. You've got actual price declines happening right now against all these inflationary pressures. My "house fund" has increased substantially because of my gold, euro and oil holdings. I can buy more house now than I could on July 20th.

Get it now?

Jymkata

Anonymous said...

Nouriel Roubini | Oct 02, 2007

This morning I was on CNBC for an interview on the stock market, jobs and the economy. See my comments on the stock market's "suckers rally".

Analysts and investors ask why is the stock market is going up in spite of continued flow of lousy macro news. In my view the answer is clear: the market is expecting that the Fed will rescue the economy from a recession: the worse the macro news the stronger the revisions for further Fed rate cut that would - in the wishful thinking of the investors - rescue the economy from a recession. But the same pattern of delusion occurred in 2001: the economy entered in a recession in March 2001 and the S&P 500 rallied by a whopping 18% in April and May because the market and investors expected that the aggressive Fed easing would prevent a 2001 recession (the famed and deluded hope of a second half of 2001 growth rebound that never occurred). It was only in June when it was obvious that the economy was sinking in spite of the Fed attempt to bail it out that the stock market started to fall again; so it was then and it is now again a typical sucker's rally fed by expectations of a Fed bailout of the economy at a time when the credit woes and credit crunch in markets are actually as bad now than in August in spite of a marginal relief of the liquidity crunch.

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/218147

Anonymous said...

From:

America meets the new superpower
http://tinyurl.com/gqell

China is rising fast and is expected to eclipse the United States economically in the future - its gross domestic product is tipped to overtake that of America by 2045.

US GDP is 70% based on consumption fueled by foreign debt. With access to credit drying up what will happen to US GDP? Might we not see China eclipse the US in terms of GDP long before 2045?

China's economy is based on production and not service related industry like the US so some might say the US has already been eclipsed by China in terms of GDP.

borkafatty said...

Great stocks going up we all made a little paper..yippy..distracted now?

The Rhetoric is ratcheting up on Iran more and more each day...yet the only important topic in the MSM is the bull shit milestone in the stock market...Yippy...In actual, not some bull shit government number, inflation added it is only 7,000 so re-lacksss..it's only $Play Doe$.

Anonymous said...

China is rising fast and is expected to eclipse the United States economically in the future - its gross domestic product is tipped to overtake that of America by 2045.
-----------------------------------
Similiar was said about Japan. You know what happened there.......

I wouldn't worry about China. We will take them down with us but we'll recover sooner and leave them in ruins, like Japan. They are giving us credit we will pay back with worthless currency or we just might not pay at all. China's coming economic disaster in the future WILL eclipse any in history. Including the one we will have.

Anonymous said...

Dow is up 25^% over the past year. Inflation is more than 2% as the "official" number says. It's maybe 5, 6, 7% somewhere in there.

I'll take a 25% return with 7% inflation any day.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the story and the world change everyday. The point of this blog is that housing prices will go down. That's the point and the one part of the "story" that has NOT changed.

"amazing"

pwnd

Anonymous said...

dow was at 850 in 1980.

gold was at $850 in 1980

Dow is at 14,000 in 2007

gold is $750 in 2007

anyone who thinks gold is a better investment than stocks long term is nuts

short term anything is possible, might as well go to las vegas you'll have the same chance of making a profit

Anonymous said...

You always complain about the lack of exports. Well here you go, exports are up, way up due to the low dollar.

Yet of course you are still not happy. There is just no pleasing some people.

http://online.wsj.com/article/
SB119119627348544237.html?mod=
googlenews_wsj

sheep devestment said...

I feel honored.

Anonymous said...

The fact that the market keeps going up is based upon market psychology and nothing else. Keep riding the upswing until some major crap hits the fan and everyone panics and starts selling off. Fundamentally we are seeing bank profits get creamed . Where do you think the profits are going to keep coming from when the sheeple can't spend any more cheap credit?

Anonymous said...

Real Estate Clowns vs Peter Schiff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoZV5jt9puc

Who's got egg on their face now?

Anonymous said...

Schiff is a smart guy who called this deal all along. To the smart a** who is trashing renters or hp guys you were dumb enough to by into this while we were not. When its time to rebuild you will still be as dumb as a post. Then you can pursue a career suited to your intelect, like ditch digger.

Anonymous said...

Keith,

I must agree with the first post. I been reading your blog for over a year now. You been predicting the stock market crash all over this blog. Now your saying its the dollar tanking which is why the stock keeps going up and its not doing what you want it to do. Which is to fall and crash. For the love of GOD which one is it, your sounding more like the Realtors these days!

Stick to your guns I'll have more respect for you.

Shakster said...

1st-I don't gotta vote for anyone(saw that Poll)2nd when I was completely debt free ,and making a little more than I needed to pay bills/rent ,i was way happy.I'm cool with it all now, but will pay my bills off ,and forego building my house.Besides ,caves are nice if you have electricity n sh!t.
"Rich" is just being out of debt.Thats all.Btw-fun to eff with realtors,telemarketers,and credit card pushers.

Anonymous said...

Artists built secret apartment in mall parking garage

(10/02/07 - PROVIDENCE, RI) - What would it be like to live at the mall?
The leader of a Rhode Island artists' cooperative has been placed on probation for trying to find out -- by illegally living inside a secret apartment set up in a parking garage at the Providence Place Mall.

Michael Townsend and other artists started building the apartment nearly four years ago inside a void in the parking garage.

The apartment eventually had a sectional sofa and love seat, coffee and breakfast tables, a rug, paintings and a video game system. The artists built a cinderblock wall to disguise their hideaway.

Townsend says members of the collective would stay for up to three weeks at a time. Plans for a one-year stay fell apart when mall security found Townsend last week and detained him.

He has pleaded no contest to a trespassing charge.

Police Major Stephen Campbell says while he's surprised by what the artists accomplished, their stunt was still illegal.

(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Anonymous said...

should condo fees be called
condo fleece from here on in

Anonymous said...

Do you think this gen of young "adults" (people now age 18-30) will fare very badly when the economy crashes?

I sure do. This gen never had to make sacrifices as a whole and throws a hissy fit when Starbucks is out of their drink. They are on average also comletely helpless when they have to handle their own business. How many people do you know under 30 that can even change a flat tire?

Well, driving will be the least of their problems so nevermind that example. I just think the young adults are in for a rude awakening.

CountCocoFang said...

China over-produces, the USA over-consumes.

Neither wants the game to end so they turn a blind eye to distorted currencies and debt/savings
loads. When it all comes undone the USA will go begging and China will lie idle and both will probably erupt into civil disorder.

At least this crunch will help redirect the world economy in the same direction as diminishing oil flows would have been steering us anyway.

The next boom? Sadly probably security and hands-on weapons.

bought_high said...

Hey Keith -

Thanks for maintaining the site, but your predictions are many but few recalled. The ones that are wrong are merely forgotten while the ones that are right are remembered in vivid detail.

So why not set your benchmark (euro, gold, dollar, etc.) and lay your financial plans clear. I don't doubt you've made some money on shorting stocks or buying put options. And I bet you have some puts in the money right now. But the question is only this - - >

what do you do from this point forward?

You don't need to tell anyone your net worth - only your portfolio percentages, then we simply track the changes. You can even track against my portfolio if you wish - it is pretty simple :

100% S&P 500 tracking index in 401K/IRA.

But basically, don't tell us what you did, but what you are doing... And let's see who is ahead down the road. I don't think I'll be changing strategies - but you seem to change quite regularly. Up for it, mate?

NOVA said...

First :

"The stock market really doesn't have anything to do with the economy people, nothing, zilch, nada, get it?"

Then :

"Rising stock market + falling home prices and sales = People not buying useless crap = major recession coming"

If the stock market has ZERO to do with the economy, then how can it be part of an equation that defines a recession?

Oh, I think there will be a recession. I will not be losing my job and hope to come out stronger than ever. My whole desk is made of wood.

Anonymous said...

The only asset prices that will/is collapsing is real estate.

Kurt Seifried-Taylor said...

This is exactly the conclusion I came to last month:

It’s time to abandon the US stock market

deluxe w/cheese and fries said...

I heard that China has all the cash to back-up bush's blunders until the 2008 China olympics? If so, that's another year for stocks to stay north bound, unless bush blows it all up before then.

Couldnt happen to a nicer guy... BUSH CRAASH 2007! (-$23.7 trillion gone in the blink of an eye....)

Would somebody please give dumbya a f*cking medal!? Make him look like his done something right for cris sakes. Idiots.

Tangelo Mozilo said...

"and even more amazing gold will go up while at the same time a recession/depression will be taking place"
------------------

Is that amazing? It's to be expected, dumbass.

Anonymous said...

Tangelo Mozilo said...
"and even more amazing gold will go up while at the same time a recession/depression will be taking place"
------------------

Is that amazing? It's to be expected, dumbass.

October 03, 2007 1:55 PM


==============================

Gold expected to rise in a recession? You might be the dumbest person in the world.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps one good outcome of this whole mess is an awakening of the public to the awful monetary system we have. This is a subject that I certainly was not taught in government school, despite the fact that money itself is so pervasive in our lives. While many folks were able to shun the housing bubble crowd and are feeling quite smug now that it has popped, that does not translate into an understanding of our monetary system and hence an understanding of the cause of the housing bubble or the ability to anticipate future developments in the American economy. You must read "What has government done to our money" by Rothbard. It is available online for free in PDF format. From there, read De Soto, Mises, and Menger, Hazlitt, and Hayek.

michael said...

"dow was at 850 in 1980.

gold was at $850 in 1980

Dow is at 14,000 in 2007

gold is $750 in 2007"

this is what keeps me from investing in gold.

TRAILOR PARK REFUGEE said...

you silly renters change your story every day

1st stocks will crash

then stocks will rise but in reality since inflation is so high they are really crashing

then housing will crash and miraculously inflation will be going crazy while assets are falling

and even more amazing gold will go up while at the same timea recession/depression will be taking place

so we will have hyperinflation, falling assets, a depression and gold at $5000 all happening at the same time

oh and also during hyperinflation, renting will be better since somehow rents will be excluded from the price runups

amazing
**************
Dear amazing troll,
Your statements are idiotic.We already have depreciating assets (housing), and inflation (food, oil, PM ), with the dollar doing a death spiral before our eyes.
Oh yea, and two banksimploding, Northern and Net Bank.
As for Stocks, the PPT is real busy propping up wall street so its drops are subtle and thus, no panic.

Do some research before you troll these bubblicious sites.

Anonymous said...

China is going to be fine with or without the US. China can keep producing goods to the rest of the world. They have the infrastructure, industry and low human resources to do so.

The US will be up shit creek when the dollar collapses and the free money is shut off. The balance of power has already shifted to China and the US and China both know it.

Oh gawd, President Dumbshit is on TV talking about tax cuts. Yeeehah!

Anonymous said...

(AP)Housing-related layoffs totaled 26,465 in September, while overall layoffs for the month totaled 71,739, according to Challenger, Gray & Christmas. The consulting firm considers mortgage lenders, construction companies and real estate firms the industries that make up the housing-related sector.

Nevertheless, job cuts were 28.5 percent lower this September than last year, when there were 100,315 job cuts. Job cut announcements so far this year totaled 587,594, 8.1 percent fewer than the 639,229 in the first nine months of 2006.



Let it go again, the corrupt gov and MSM manipulating the unemployment rates to fool the sheeple. What about those millions of illegals who were working in landscaping, construction, painting homes, etc?

Anonymous said...

oh and also during hyperinflation, renting will be better since somehow rents will be excluded from the price runups

Yes, with the crazy oversupply of homes offered and going into foreclosure for the next 3 years, rents will be lower or stable. We are already witnessing this right now, or haven't you noticed that we are in a period of high inflation? Oh, I forgot that you are a Bushie who believes in economic indicators provided by this corrupt government, like inflation rates, for instance.

Hoop dee doo, let's keep OIL and FOOD out of the CPI index so the sheeple will think that inflation is low. While we are at it, let's get rid of M3, so nobody knows that our money printers are in a tear day and night.

Gee, am I the only one noticing that inflation is super high already while rents keep going lower? Check price of oil, food, health care, tuition, food at Denny's, tolls, movie and concert tickets, books, utilities, broadband...up, up, up, up...

bryce in canada (Vncvr&Clgry bubbls) said...

RE michael said...
"dow was at 850 in 1980.gold was at $850 in 1980Dow is at 14,000 in 2007gold is $750 in 2007. this is what keeps me from investing in gold."

Q: And how much does $850 of 1980-dollars compute to in 2007-dollars?
A: Approx. $2,350

Q: When Dow was at 850 in 1980, was it in record territory for the time? Was it in record territory for the preceding six years?
A: No and No.

Q: When gold peaked in 1980 ($850), how many ounces of gold were needed to purchase the Dow index (850)
A: 1.

Q: Just before the Dow crashed in 1929, how many ounces of gold were needed to purchase the Dow index?
A: 18.

Q: What is 18 x 750?
A: 13,500

Tangelo Mozilo said...

Anaonypussy 2:30 whined:

"Gold expected to rise in a recession? You might be the dumbest person in the world."

-------------------

When we go into a recession, the Fed's answer is to pull us out by destroying the dollar. Retard.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
China is rising fast and is expected to eclipse the United States economically in the future - its gross domestic product is tipped to overtake that of America by 2045.
-----------------------------------
Similiar was said about Japan. You know what happened there.......

I wouldn't worry about China. We will take them down with us but we'll recover sooner and leave them in ruins, like Japan. They are giving us credit we will pay back with worthless currency or we just might not pay at all. China's coming economic disaster in the future WILL eclipse any in history. Including the one we will have.

October 03, 2007 12:47 AM

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Wow, you are dumb. Do you know that China is like 10 times the size of Japan?

Japan is too small to become a dominant global power; China is not.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
dow was at 850 in 1980.

gold was at $850 in 1980

Dow is at 14,000 in 2007

gold is $750 in 2007

anyone who thinks gold is a better investment than stocks long term is nuts

short term anything is possible, might as well go to las vegas you'll have the same chance of making a profit

October 03, 2007 1:06 AM

------------------

Idiot posts like these make me realize the bull market in gold is nowhere near a top. There are lots of ignorant sheeple out there to provide a plentiful supply of Greater Fools and Last Suckers In.

They bash gold now but will capitulate and buy after it goes up a few more hundred percent.

Anonymous said...

bought_high said...

...

You can even track against my portfolio if you wish - it is pretty simple :

100% S&P 500 tracking index in 401K/IRA.

...

October 03, 2007 6:53 AM

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So you're staking 100% of your financial future on a declining economy? I hope you enjoy working at WalMart!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Tangelo Mozilo said...
"and even more amazing gold will go up while at the same time a recession/depression will be taking place"
------------------

Is that amazing? It's to be expected, dumbass.

October 03, 2007 1:55 PM


==============================

Gold expected to rise in a recession? You might be the dumbest person in the world.

October 03, 2007 2:30 PM

-----------------

Ever heard of the 1970s?

Anonymous said...

AH AH AH

NEW HIGH

NEW HIGH

NEW HIGH

Anonymous said...

Japan is too small to become a dominant global power; China is not.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight. It's the size of the fight in the dog. British Empire (that tiny little island) ruled large swaths of world. Italy (Roman Empire) ruled a huge area. Japanese Empire would now own China and the Pacific if they hadn't committed political suicide and attacked the USA. Plenty of examples of small, well-organized countries out maneuvering and controlling larger countries. IF China remains on track (organized and focused) they can become the dominant economic and military power. But they're not there yet.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't worry about China. We will take them down with us but we'll recover sooner and leave them in ruins, like Japan.

I've gotten news for you: You are already China's bitch. Enjoy, patriotic sheeple.