August 31, 2007

Special HousingPANIC open thread - vent your rage and disgust with George Bush and the US Congress over any attempt to bail out housing gamblers here

We had a hand in stopping the immigration bulls*it and now HP'ers should lead in letting our NAR-funded "leaders" know that any taxpayer bailout of housing gamblers will amount to a declaration of war against us (the taxpayers)

Rage HP'ers - pure, unmitigated (and legal) rage - express it here.

Also send messages to key Senators Clinton, Schumer, Shelby and Dodd, and to George Bush here. No physical threats - just let 'em know your Category Five taxpayer fury.

I also hope right wing radio is in flames tonight as well - call in and vent.

Unleash hell.


Anonymous said...

... Unleash HELL!!! .... but only in writing.


Anonymous said...

damn it. This is $#%^#@%@#

Hey I bought a few lotto tickets and lost my money. Can you bail me out?

Anonymous said...

Sigma said...

Not sure if I understand correctly, but it doesn't sound like a bailout.

On Friday, Bush:

* Urged Congress to pass legislation that would give the Federal Housing Administration more flexibility to help mortgage holders with subprime mortgages.
* Pledged to work with Congress to reform the tax code to help troubled borrowers rework their loans.
* Called for rigorously enforcing predatory lending laws and strengthening lending practices.

Anonymous said...

here's the transcript of Bush's speech

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter. Housing prices are going to tank anyway. Even with sweetheart interest rates. Besides, if the gov't is going to throw any money down the drain, I'd rather it be here than overseas. This is a moral issue, we do not want bad behavior "rewarded", but you cannot expect the gov't to do nothing. Especially in the election season.

Anonymous said...

Where were these jackasses when home prices were soaring and toxic loans were being offered?

Joon said...

I'm going to refuse to pay my taxes if this happens. Who's with me??

d. trump said...

This seems to be the RIGHT thing to do. No bailout, but expand lending for FHA, Freddie, and Fannie to help borrowers refinance. Also limits tax liabilities on sells or refi's if a short sale is involved. This seems fair to me

Cap'n America said...

Living in America now is a hellish version of The Matrix.

The whole goddam society is set up to suck everything out of you, whether you like it or not.

If you don't sign over your entire life earnings and register as a mortgage debtor, the Fed, the Executive, and the Congress will make damn sure you regret that decision.

This country is fucked: the choices for "change" look like either fascist redistributionists (authoritarian third world) or socialist redistributionists (Marxist third world). What a choice.

Just give me the goddam bluepill already and sign me up for an ARM I can't afford.

Anonymous said...

Much ado about nothing. Mr. President is pumping the stock market on a day when financial companies Fiscal Quarter ends. That's all it is...

Anonymous said...

Well done as always, my ex-pat friend. Don't let the actual facts get in the way of your rant.

Read the transcript kids. Try the truth on for size.

"A federal bailout of lenders would only encourage a recurrence of the problem. It's not the government's job to bail out speculators, or those who made the decision to buy a home they knew they could never afford."

Seems clear to me ...

Anonymous said...

Tired of paying US taxes? heres whwere you start

Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship said...

This isn't a bailout... if you read the plan you'll see that it only helps a very tiny fraction of those in trouble, and to quality they have to have good credit.

This is just "feel-good" posturing to create the impression that he's doing something to help them, when in reality he's doing nothing - which is a good thing.

It'll keep Billary and Obamination and Shumer and all the left-wing looters who want to hand free money to failed flippers off his back.

turdly said...

Normally I wouldn't agree with the unemployable spaz we call president, but this is what I heard;
'``I plan to help homeowners, the government's got a role to play,'' Bush said. ``But it's not the government's job to bail out speculators or those who made the decision to buy a home they couldn't afford.''
I hate that I'm agreeing with him, but all he has said is;

That leaves about 1 in a 10,000 at the best, that will/can be helped.
Please remember that;
1 the people will not budget for the new loan at the new rate, no matter how low it is.
2 Those that do budget will only be able to do this if they own just one home.
3 any cash taken out that was used to buy anything unrelated to the home or buy stocks etc, will have to be replaced before they can even begin to qualify
4 the value of the property is not there.
5 They'll have to come up with any difference in cash. Unless it spwans a whole new industry, no one will loan it to them so they can bailed out on soemething they are already in arrears on.
6 Those that take the bailout and fail will have their wages and ss garnered forever.
7 We tried to give cash to the KatRats for katrina. It didn't work he is painfully aware of that. he's not going to do a program like that again.
8 you tell me.

I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

Anonymous said...

Isn't that what's all about our country? Those who bad are rewarded? Think about it, bailing out stupid, greedy and reckless homeowners are like illegal aliens being given amnesty. Pretty soon, you'll hear Casey Serin appointed as HUD head.

Anonymous said...

I registered as a Republican in 1972 after 35 years I am changing to Independent. I think both parties are a joke and that we are moving to the Corrupt States of America.

Anonymous said...

It's called the Free Market. It takes care of itself and the government only f***s it up

Anonymous said...

He says "no bailout" then he lays out the bailout

Shumer also wants a bailout he's more dangerous than Bush

I'm stupid, bail me out said...

The news wasn't as nearly as bad as I thought it would be. This is clearly just lip service, not a bail out. What's important is that easy money and wild appreciation are over. Even if the govt did bailout the idiots, that is not going to cause prices to go up.

Anonymous said...

"if you read the plan you'll see that it only helps a very tiny fraction of those in trouble, and to quality they have to have good credit"

I agree somewhat but POTUS said Those 90 days behind on payments. Their credit is already toast..

In some states the home is already foreclosed on.

Anonymous said...

WE NEED 5 milion people to show up 4/15/2008 and burn their 1040 tax forms on the capitol steps

will they jail all of us ...
this is the same logic with Illegals and Mortgage Debtors

remain anonomus for ovous reasons

Anonymous said...

Since we are good and pissed heres another worthy petition..

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Why doesnt the federal goverment and the IRS go after the stated income buyers for cheating on their taxes

Anonymous said...

Listen to GW's words carefully...he said he does not believe in a "direct" bailout. what he's saying is that he believes in an INDIRECT bailout...that is, through guaranteeing the subrime loans thru the FHA that are at least 90 days in arrears. He's going to expand the loan amounts that are covered. so, since so many of these loans are going to fail, the Feds will pay them off. Also, he wants to forgive the tax penalty people incur on the loss that is incurred. That's the indirect bailout..but it's still a bailout. A direct bailout would be the Feds giving cash to home debtors. They know that won't fly so they are going to do essentially the same thing but through an indirect means.

Our govt. sucks. In fact, I can't even call it the American govt. anymore. Sure, it's a government, but what type it is I haven't clue. I know it has nothing to do with the govt. that's defined in the Constitution.

Anonymous said...

So he wants me to bail out the idiot that makes $40,000 a year that has a $500,000 mortgage.

It is the idiot's fault that he or she didn't read the loan documents.

Bush is the dumbest president of all time!

He and his stupid "ownership" society.

This country is going broke, jobs are going abroad and the Middle East is going up in flames thanks to Double Ewe!

Rental Car Madness said...

"It's not the government's job to bail out speculators or those who made the decision to buy a home they knew they could never afford," Bush said in the Rose Garden

Lost Cause said...

He caused the bubble, with his influence on Greenspan. Ownership society indeed -- just pump enough money into the economy until he gets re-elected. Why not throw more gasoline on the fire?

When we see nore more dancing ads on websites, and our mailboxes have become empty of credit and mortgage solicitations -- only then will the crisis be over.

The sock puppet must die.

Owner Earnings said...

For anyone that things this isn't a federal bailout ask yourself this question:

Where is the government going to get the money to help out these 80,000 some home owners?

(I'll give you a hint: taxpayers)

Anonymous said...

"He is also expected to support legislation that would provide tax breaks to homeowners whose mortgage debt is forgiven, in whole or in part, by lenders. The federal government currently collects taxes on the amount of a loan that is forgiven."

Basically, Dubya has just given the green light to everyone underwater right now to walk away from their sh*tty loan/overpaid house.

I see this as a good thing. Prices will crash next early next year! lol, I’m sure My Pet Goat had something to say about all this.

Anonymous said...

I told you all that GOP wasn't done with your wallets yet. Didn't I?

So you keep spinning that hamster wheel hard to support their arses and the Hampton mansions of Republican bankers. Giuliana wants a piece of your wallets too, so you geniuses who voted Bush & Co into office TWICE, keep on voting for those freaks so you can destroy the country (and the planet for that matter) for good.

It really doesn't matter anyway because this country will be run by Mexicans and Cubans sooner or later. The US is sinking fast...meanwhile, the so called "family values" Republican crowd, is doing pervert stuff in public restrooms, instead of working on important issues. You keep voting with your feet, sheeple, because there will be more phony terror threats and phony wars to get more money out of you and your children. Booooo, sheeple, the bogeyman Osama is under your bed, let us keep your wallet for safety.

Keep watching Fox News, Hannity, Maria "Lend Me Your Corporate Jet" Bartoramo, O'Reilly, Kudlow, Cramer...they love fools!

I was just reading about the new eavesdrop system that the FBI uses to control the citizens (police state) while the administration keeps the borders wide open for millions of strangers to walk across every year. Ironic, no? They want to eavesdrop on hardworking citizens while millions of strangers who walk across the borders every year, and without any cell phones or Internet get to do whatever they want in this country. Even protest on the streets of major American cities, carrying the American flag upside down! Now tell me if this makes any sense whatsoever to you, and isn't an indication that the New World Order is alive and right on track?

The entire system is rigged and shady groups (secret society) control everything, including what you watch on tv, your jobs, your communications, who gets to be president, wars, etc. ALL RIGGED!

Anonymous said...

Here's my plan:

Make sure there's enough liquidity so the entire system doesn't crash and leave it at that. Let the houses fall where they may and the flippers eat dirt.

Anonymous said...

"No Flipper Left Behind"

blowfish said...

I hope you stupid Democrat and Republican drones finally wake up. Both sides want to stick it up your arse. They are getting their megabucks from Wall street and other special interest groups out to screw you and your families.

Vte for Ron Paul. He is the only true statesman.

Markus Arelius said...

You cannot legislate people to read the fine print of their financial obligations.

I've written to Boxer and Feinstein today. Not optimistic since NAR is in their pocket, they are women, and they'll misinterpret every "heart wrenching" foreclosure story as an opportunity to show "compassion for hard workign Americans".
They need to shelve this image and act more like Mother Nature or "Mother Common Sense" with a huge paddle in the right hand ready to dole out some whoop-ass.

Not going to bother writing with George W. He cannot read.

And to anyone with a "W in 2004" sticker still on the back of their California SUV, F$@&% You!

Anonymous said...

Some comic mortgage relief:

SeattleMoose said...

Free market capitalism....we hear that slogan all the time as corporations rape and rob the world. Relax ya lousy tree hugger commie and let the markets take care of it....don't know how many times I have heard this message.

And yet, when it comes time to let all the infestors and other vermin who pumped the bubble die a painful death.....WHERE THE HELL IS THAT FREE MARKET CAPITALISM THAT WE ARE FORCED TO BOTH HEAR AND BEAR SO OFTEN!!!!???

AmazingRuss said...

Joon said...

I'm going to refuse to pay my taxes if this happens. Who's with me??

I already started doing that....legally. How? I stopped working to earn money that is being reduced to worthless paper. I still pay a little on my residual income, but a LOT less than I did before.

If you can't go to this extreme, try earning less...and enjoy your free time. There is no reason to bust ass in this country...the grasshoppers have overrun the ants.

Aesop's fable has a new ending..."and then the grasshoppers kicked down the ants door and ate all their food. Two months later, the grasshoppers and the ants were all dead of exposure and starvation. The End"

I'm doing my best to consume my wealth before it's confiscated.

Rebecca said...

i am a single mom, living off of 36k a yr, of which 30k is va disability and i have the documentation to prove it! all i want is a decent home that i can afford. am i really asking for too much?

Anonymous said...

Who wants to keep a looser asset worth half what you paid with a government low payment loan?

TM said...

Housing is going to tank anyway, but at least now our government is going to be deeper in the red and the dollar drop even more in value.

Anonymous said...


It's over morons. The bailout is here. Rate cuts are here.

Dow is up 10% YTD.

You lose once again.

Anonymous said...

I have been a fan of Keith's housing blog for, I beleive, a couple of years now. This is my favorite place to go when I'm down and looking to find a little sanity in this so screwed up world. Thank God there's a place like this (really, thank you Keith) where people can vent so freely.

Never have I been so upset over an announcement of a government bailout as I am with this one. Ben Bernanke, Hank Paulson, President Bush, and Wall Street, in collusion, have used every tool possible to screw over responsible citizens in this country. When my tax dollars go to bailing out fools and idiots, who in many cases recklessly gambled all their money (and now mine with tax dollars) on ridiculous risky mortgages, it's seriously time to rethink about what country I invest my money in.

When a government messes so corruply and blatantly with the free markets, as in the United States, the free markets become nothing more than games of chance where the cards are marked and only the dealer (Wall Street and the Government) always knows who's holding what.

The lowering of interest rates to 50 year lows by Alan Greenspan created this mess. As the free market has tried to do its best to adjust housing prices back to their true market values, along comes Dumbo (Bush) and Peter the rabbit (Hank Paulson) again with another marked card in the housing game of poker. I've never been a very good poker player, but I've had much success as an investor. I'll not be investing in real estate anytime soon, at least until this poker game is over. It now looks like that could take a very long time to play out.

Anonymous said...

see you in jail joon!

Anonymous said...

You missed on this one Keith. This was a symbolic bone thrown on the last day of the quarter to ensure an up day for those who've had a terrible month.

Anonymous said...

To help the lenders, and slowly bleed the FBs.

Mr. Bush, you've done it again.
Helping your wealthy base owners out, all at the expense of the poor and ignorant!!


Anonymous said...

Financial ARMAGEDDON!!

Anonymous said...

This plan will have no impact on the subprime mess. It's a political smokescreen. All it's really going to do is allow FHA to take on an additional 80,000 riskier loans (from 160,000 to 240,000 borrowers). FHA loans are some of the stricter loans around in terms of appraisals, debt to income ratio and proof of income. The average FB/Flipper won't even qualify.

Anonymous said...

Diana Olick, I LOVE YOU!!

smart, pretty, common sense. she's got the whole package.

Anonymous said...

What a load of Cr@p.

See Republican nuthuggers? Even your party sucks.

I'm a Libertarian by the way. Time to grab the pitchforks and torches! How long can we take this abuse?

Anonymous said...

Bush wants to help people that have good credit but could not refi out of an ARM. If they had good credit should not be able to refi anyway? I have good credit, yet I did not over-reach to becoem a lownowner. If these people get to keep their teaser rate, I want that rate too!

Anonymous said...

>it doesn't sound like a bailout. (...)
> give the Federal Housing Administration more flexibility to help mortgage holders with subprime mortgages.

FHA demands an insurance premium from the borrower to fill its reserves. FHA has reserves of 22 billion. After all reserves have been used to cover lenders' losses, the taxpayer is on the hook. And those tiny reserves will be gone soon in a house price crash, compare with the likely depreciation on the insured homes.

> Pledged to work with Congress to reform the tax code to help troubled borrowers rework their loans.

This, for one, could be good work. Not all short sales / credit forgiveness should be taxed by the IRS.

> Called for rigorously enforcing predatory lending laws and strengthening lending practices.

Closing the barn, after the cattle is gone. Would be good, if they don't relax it in the next bubble.

Superfizzle said...

5-10 years from now, when our government has passed its latest batch of laws pushing us further towards socialisim, what happened to the 2005-2007 housing market will be used as an example of how capitiallism fails and the working men and women get hurt. There will be no questions raised about why people were allowed to lie on loan docs, how corrupt bond rating agencies gave subprime debt their highest ratings, the lies propegated by the NAR or why Greenspan let this mess happen in the first place. The experience will exist, simply, as an illustration of how the government needs to better legislation to protect us in the future.

Anonymous said...

The US housing price collapse is just the opening show.
Get ready for the main event.
European hosing collapse will keep us all on the edge of our seats.
Can’t wait to see the soup and bread lines all over the EU..

Got Popcorn?

sam said...

In spite of distrust of worst president ever, I believe that this is political posturing that will make little difference to 90% of the fb's out there. Note that this is only supposed to help only 10% (160k) of the 2million foreclosures next year. Programs will be highly tailored to avoid the political embarassment of subsidizing Casey Serin and the condo-flipper types.

Unless the political response is a time machine or a trillion dollar bail out, it is unlikely to have signficant market impact. And by the way, the stock market's response makes it unlikely the fed will cut interest rates.

Some of the proposals are positive-regulating sub-prime lenders and changing the tax code to eliminate the "kick em in the head while their down" taxation of f'ed homedebtors.

Maybe GW is cagey like a fox, getting out in front of the real bailout Wall Street whores like Schumer & co so that he has the political capital to veto their proposals later.

Panic thesis still live.

PS. Short October Fed Funds Futures

Blue Pill Person said...

If you enjoyed the movie The Matrix and you are a Red Pill person, then you will enjoy this startling comparison. Wake up people!

sweet potato said...

Now that the Housing bubble is well underway of a major collapse
Were do you think the next bubble is forming.

“global investments”
The morons on CNBC have been preaching the “global” economy,
This tells me its time to bail out.

Then were should one invest you may ask.
Answer = US companies with low/little global exposure.

Once again, its been foretold right here in HP HQ

Anonymous said...

OK all you dorks - LISSEN UP and PLEASE
try to understand even though it must strain your little minds:

1. There was no bubble.
2. Therefore, there was no crash.
3. This is NOT a hastily thought out emergency measure - it has been on our agenda for several years.
4. This is NOT a bailout.

Next week:
Commercial paper, conduits and vehicles, chutes and ladders.

Who Gives a Sh$T said...

Disgusting.Joe Six has no friggen clue as to how a contract works,what the hell equity is with in contracts...F#ck!
This further reinforces Joe's conditioning ,and ignorance.Most Joes,and Susyrottens think "Bankruptcy is a constitutional right handed down by god". They will learn no sense of responsibility,but no president,bank ,or school ever taught that anyway.The US system is held up by ignorance,and the Sheister's love it.The only way to pay back the rest of the world for our debts is #1 WAR! to cover it all up,#2The gambling Houses of Wall Street,Fed(Treasuries),and Bond Markets.
Cool,just as long as I can extract my cut,and F#ck the rest.Bush is a big friggen DOOOOOOOCHE!

Shakster said...

I'm tellin ya ,just jump on the Ponzi wagon,Fleece the sheep,rip off the world,and let the Government propaganda machine hide it all.The dix will all line up to get slaughtered in wars to keep it going.Fine by me ,the sheep have shown that they couldn't care any less about anything.Draft the bastards ,and get fu3king rid of some of them anyway.Keep the PONZI Scheme GOING!!! It WORKS! BOMBS AWAY FOR MY BIG PAYDAY ,YAY YAY YAY! GO Get -Em ,You Flag WAVING MORONS.Who cares about BOOSH,and DIK,they are both jussa couple of stools anyway.

Shakster said...

Joon said...
I'm going to refuse to pay my taxes if this happens. Who's with me??
Why that's the most American suggestion I have read yet.I'm already there too.;)

rcochran said...

This thread is sad, because it reveals Keith's immaturity as manifested in his intense desire to see the US economy destroyed.

Regardless of what politicians do, this thing will have to work itself out.

Many who should suffer because of their corruption WILL NOT suffer, and that's just how it it.

Grow up, Keith.

real estate 101 said...

Why? Focked borrowers need to borrow to be the slaves of the system. If they can't borrow, the gov't won't have the power over the people.

No debt, and I don't care.

Anonymous said...

It seems to just prolong the inevitable...crash. I do not think they will bail out flippers, investors, 2nd homes, etc.

BenFranklin said...

too bad we are all responsible people with day jobs.

it would be nice to travel to DC and chain ourselves to the entire city and everything in it for 'civil disobediance' for a few days.

end the end we will all do what the men with guns tell us to. pay taxes or go to jail AND pay taxes+penalties. those are your choices.

Shakster said...

From WRH_
"I warned you Bush was going to do another "Bailout" scam on the American taxpayers. Like the S&L bailout, it will be sold as saving poor families and widows and retirees and orphans, but in reality (and again just like the S&L debacle) be used to pump more money out of the taxpayers and into favored corporate and CIA pockets."
Here is how the scam worked.

President Bush (the elder) raised the limit on insurable deposits to $100,000.

Iran-Contra drug runners purchased legitimate small cash-based businesses, such as convenience stores, multi-screen cinemas, etc. and then blended the drug money with the legit proceeds from those businesses. After taxes, the money was deposited in $100,000 chunks in numbered brokered accounts at the target S&L.

Through a front company, the same druggies would purchase worthless land, run up its price with several flips or by using a compromised appraiser, then obtain a loan using the land as collateral.

The druggies have now borrowed back their original money, and since it is the proceeds of a loan, the money is non-taxable, cleaned, and ready to be spent anywhere in the world.

The front company was closed, the loan defaulted, and the S&L found itself with worthless land. The S&L then collapsed, and along came the Resolution Trust Corporation armed with a checkbook full of taxpayer dollars. And here is the beauty of the scheme. The druggies were still on the S&L books for their original brokered deposits, so even though they had already borrowed back their own money, the RTC writes them a check for their original deposit!

Using this simple scheme, CIA druggies (and other opportunists) could not only launder but GROW their drug money inside the US, with zero risk, and all on the backs of the taxpayers. This was the real scandal behind Whitewater, Flowerwood, Castle Grande, etc.; the scandal hidden by a stained blue dress.

So here we are today, a quarter of a century later. Bush the younger is in the White House. The entire US real estate market has been flipped up to over-valued high prices. Vast sums of money have been invested in the mortgage industry, then loaned out on land worth far less than the price paid for it. The lending institutions are starting to collapse, and once again a Bush rides to the rescue, and even though Bush is pointedly saying this will not be a bailout, that is exactly what it will be. And like the S&L debacle of the 80s, it will be sold as helping ordinary American families, but in reality is a repeat of the Iran-Contra/Whitewater/Flowerwood, scams. And your tax money, which should go to highways, bridges, schools and hospitals, is the prize!"
Shakster-I could not have explained that in that way.
Mike Rivero Rules.

Anonymous said...


The real issue here is the commercial paper markets. This is why we have all of these loans that to any sane person look absurd. These loans were bundled, packaged, sliced and diced and given high ratings and sold to investors all over the world. Until that market comes back, which won't happen overnight, the housing market is going down. This market not only feeds the housing market but corporations, hedge funds, etc. Without this market, easy money will be gone and the economy will be hit hard. We will see some serious bodies floating up in the next 3 months. Focus on wealth protection in the near term.


Anonymous said...

Let it go, Republican sheeple. Another one for your list of "family values conservative" crooks who want a piece of your wallet and retirement money. I tell you what "conservative-family values-jesus freaks", since you voted those two secret society warmonger idiots into office TWICE, vote now for Giuliana to really f*ck this country up (and the entire planet). You guys are a bunch of geniuses!

"(AP) Giuliani event aide quits over sex, theft charges

TALLAHASSEE --An organizer for a Rudy Giuliani presidential event plans to step down amid revelations of his arrests for allegedly extorting an FSU student in a sex case and his conviction for dealing in stolen state computers.

Barry S. Edwards, 45, told The Miami Herald that the charges against him were ''old news'' --- and were 'unfounded' in the student sex case -- but he nevertheless thought it would be best to withdraw from the Pinellas County Republican Party fundraiser because ``I'm not relevant and I shouldn't be the story.''

Edwards said he was not being paid for organizing the Sept. 7 Reagan Day dinner, and had no real connection to the campaign of Giuliani, who is to be the keynote speaker at the Renaissance Vinoy Resort and Golf Club in St. Petersburg.

The two criminal incidents involving Edwards were unrelated, and occurred within months of each other in 1998.

According to a Florida State University arrest affidavit: Edwards was first charged after a 19-year-old FSU political science intern claimed Edwards, then an adjunct professor, plied him with beers, trolled briefly for prostitutes, watched ''heterosexual'' pornography and then exhorted him to masturbate in a game.

The intern said Edwards threatened him with bad grades if he didn't ''get into it.'' He declined to press charges. Edwards said the claims were ''lies'' but he didn't ''want to revisit it.'' Edwards was fired from FSU.

Shortly after his extortion arrest, state Capitol police then arrested Edwards on charges of theft, burglary and dealing with stolen property after the cops said he stole at least $10,000 worth of computer equipment from offices of the Florida Legislature."

Paul E. Math said...

You're really pushing my buttons on this one, Keith. Rage is an understatement.

Bush said "it's not the government's job to bail out speculators or those who made the decision to buy a home they couldn't afford."

I think he is being completely disingenuous when he says this. I would love to believe that this program will be well-executed and will exclude all the ignorant weasels who helped to inflate this bubble by borrowing more then they could afford. But I just don't have that kind of faith.

Noone in favour of this program will call it a bailout but that is exactly what it is. However strict the qualifying criteria they are not strict enough. And they can always be loosened, can't they?

So this is supposed to only help 80,0000 of the 2 million who face foreclosure in the next year - is that a promise? Because it will be very easy to make election promises that would dramatically increase this figure.

Anonymous said...

Yeah I do not think what he said amounts to a bailout, it just extends FHA insurance to more and covers more...the will cost you more...then on top of that, refinancing means those that are going to be able to pass the rigorous credit standards to refinance it will be much, much harder so you need to think about this, what Bush is talking about is getting blown completely out of proportion, they are not going to help anyone that is losing their house in the next year or two and after that, this is just setting different standards and leaving it to the lenders to get their money, nothing is going to the taxpayers.

Paul E. Math said...

I can't resist making another comment because I'm obsessed with this subject.

Just how much more is the government going to give people to pay for their homes?

The deductibility of mortgage and home equity loan interest is already a government subsidy totalling in the billions yearly. This is money taken directly from renters and given to home-owners. And now they want more.

Does anyone care about right and wrong anymore? Or has greed blinded us to the distinction between the two?

Anonymous said...

Ron Paul

Anonymous said...

FBs aren't going to want to keep paying for a house that is up-side-down. It is far better to walk away and come back in 3 to 4 years and buy at a much lower price with a much lower mortgage.

The inventory of homes for sale is huge and growing. Builders will continue to build so they can stay in business. And they will build homes which cost less because that will be the demand. Homes will continue to decline in value until all the foreclosures are sold and home values make sense in price to earnings.

I wouldn't get to excited about a government bail out. It's not going to happen. Politicians will continue to talk the talk because we are in an election year.

Anonymous said...

Let's turn this country into a casino. That's how it's been run since 1998.

Virtualco said...

My therapist sez I should not be afraid to give my opinion on matters that concern me.

Well, here goes...

I am really upset at this whole mess.

How did I do?


Two Big Ones

keith said...

Man, what a ride it's been HP'ers. From "is there a bubble" to a Bush-led government bailout of housing gamblers.

Not only was there a bubble, one of historic proportions, but now things have gotten so bad that the only way out is the lender of last resort bailing us out.

We're so screwed. Houses will drop 50% or more in value in many areas. It's over. Tilt. And even Bush and Bernanke won't be able to fix it.

Housing Panic is here.

Anonymous said...

Patriots will stand up in times like these

anonymous wimp said...


I don't know if anyone has posted this vid link to a couple trying to auction their condo in Fla.

Purchased for more than $600k.

No bid for the minimum....of $150k


Anonymous said...

Just wait until the appraisals come in below what the FBs owe on their original loan.....

Anonymous said...

Please go to this AOL poll and vote no to Bush's proposal for bailouts:

Anonymous said...

bail out 80K HD's..1.5 to 2 m going under that's not a bail out..that's leaving the door open for the GOP in 08 to show how much they care for the ppl making under 200k o year. Awwwwwwwwwwwww

Anonymous said...

These SOBs are far more dengerous than TERRORISTS. These criminals can do lot more damage than terrorists can ever imagine with their little suicide bombs.... These guys dont care for rest of us not able to afford anything already as long as their main constituency i.e. high dollar contributing top 10%, come election time.

War5cry said...

Does anyone really think that this bitterly partisan congress can actually take a meaningful stand on anything, let alone nonsensical legislation like this.

kitchenstove said...

This is a lot of nonsense to me, and I doubt this will do anyone any good. We're talking about the same characters who dropped the ball on and made a mess of the Katrina relief effort, not to mention the millions of other things they've done poorly and with no real excuse. Our governemnt is so ineffeciant and incoherent at this point, the Chinese were right to call us a "paper tiger". Whatever Bush decides to do will be done poorly, as with Katrina etc., and I have to agree that only a handful of people will benefit from this in any way. They will screw up whatever it is they're trying to do in too many ways and in the end millions of FBs will still be ass out.

Mayor McMansion said...

Right, Bush and his baboons are going to help out homeowners like they helped out Iraqis. I suspect it won't be long before all homeowners will be longing for the good old days of Lereah, Mozilo, Greenspan and the likes.

Anonymous said...

"It's not the government's job to bail out speculators or those who made the decision to buy a home they knew they could never afford," Bush said in the Rose Garden


Of course, it IS the government's job to bail out 1) the upper 0.1% class who invests in and works at hedge funds and investment banks and 2) the Communist Party of China.

Who do you think Our Base is? The Haves and the Have Mores! We're Trans-national baybee! Shanghai, Dubai, NYC, Monaco, Sao Paolo, Zurich, whatever.

Middle Class Americans? Snort! They're the patsies. Turdblossom got em all knickerd up with that GAY marriage bullshit and the terrorists versus Jesus crap.

Anonymous said...

not paying taxes

Anonymous said...

It would be naive to expect the politicans to do nothing - they want to get re-elected after all.

The numbers I am reading that will be bailed out are 80,000+. Just a drop in the bucket. Hopefully, that will be the extent of it.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully it's just a lot of jawboning. "A free house in every, er, house!"

Then he'll complain how the Democrats are preventing his bail out bill from getting passed, yada, yada.

Doesn't matter anyway. It's just prolonging the inevitable, making these, ahem, unfortunate (fraudulent loan taker-outers) borrowers sink even more money into a lost cause which they'll lose anyway.

I'd say that it was political maneuvering but I don't think GW is that deep.

If there is some kind of handout, I'm going to take out a max loan on my house equity, bury it then tell the Man I spent it all at Vegas on hookers and crank. That would make me handicapped (vice challenged) and eligible for a bail out I think.

What a wonderful country we live it. God bless America.

Anonymous said...

How many crackhouses does the CIA fucking NEED, anyway?


What's next, FHA loans to buy airplanes to fly the coca up here for processing?

Anonymous said...

He's not bailing out any homeowners. He's bailing out banks.
We live in a Corporate Socialist Oligarchy. Try your worst, but look at the Democratic (the Left?) candidates for a while, and the bribes they have received.

Anonymous said...

"It's not the government's job to bail out speculators or those who made the decision to buy a home they knew they could never afford," Bush said in the Rose Garden


Of course, it IS the government's job to bail out 1) the upper 0.1% class who invests in and works at hedge funds and investment banks and 2) the Communist Party of China.

Who do you think Our Base is? The Haves and the Have Mores! We're Trans-national baybee! Shanghai, Dubai, NYC, Monaco, Sao Paolo, Zurich, whatever.

Middle Class Americans? Snort! They're the patsies. Turdblossom got em all knickerd up with that GAY marriage bullshit and the terrorists versus Jesus crap.

Anonymous said...

These people are not irresponsible, greedy spendthrifts. They are "financially challenged" and thus have special needs, as if they were allergic to peanuts etc.

Therefore we must all accommodate them. That's the law. We're in this together. No flipper left behind.

turdly said...

Rebecca said...
I am a single mom, living off of 36k a yr, of which 30k is va disability! all i want is a decent home that i can afford. am I really asking for too much?

August 31, 2007 7:38 PM

Yes, it is really to much to ask. A rental is a fine home. Renting is less than buying. Your income makes you a renter. We all have a station in life. Yours is as a semifixed income renter. Congratulations on not being a stupid turd that lied about their income and bought too much house because you thought you 'deserved' it.
You will be the envy of your income bracket when you're the only one with good credit and no foreclosure. You'll have the pick of many beautifull rental homes that you'll pay $500 monthly for. Here's the really great part; the landlord will be paying $2150 for it. Your bad credit/foreclosure counterparts will be relagated to trailerparks.

Anonymous said...

from there's no bubble to we need a government bailout

from subprime is contained to we are monitoring the situation closely

belchorama said...

Anonymous said...
Listen to GW's words carefully...he said he does not believe in a "direct" bailout. what he's saying is that he believes in an INDIRECT bailout...

..but it's still a bailout. A direct bailout would be the Feds giving cash to home debtors. They know that won't fly so they are going to do essentially the same thing but through an indirect means.


I'm not sure how to read this proposal from the dumbest leader of the free world ever. But I fear that you, anon, and Paul E. Math, have read this right - I think this will end up going through in some form because politicians are home-owners and swine, and it will end up mitigating damages to stupid lenders and mitigating damages to housing prices. And holy f@ck does that depress me and piss me off. I think the damage to stupid lenders and housing prices is going to be large anyway, but what's going to happen when the Alt-As and then the primes need a bailout? It's gonna happen, and soon. Will this gather steam and mitigate the correction even more?

I hate to say it, but today I wonder if "dopes" has it right, and this possibility makes me sick. There's nothing right about this country. Tax money is taken from hard-working, responsible people and handed to the irresponsible, the greedy, and the reckless (not to mention the illegals)in larger amounts every day. F@ck America. F@ck me for being a responsible taxpayer. Seriously, tell me where to meet you with my pitchfork and torch and I'll be there.

Anonymous said...

lets impeach him once and for all-

frickin corrupt ass leaders.

zoiks said...

Regarding failed swamp-view, ahem, I mean lake-view condo auction in Florida: Too funny!

One question: why did all those people show up to the auction and not bid? Were they there just to witness the carnage, like lookee-loos staring at a fatal collision on a freeway?

Anonymous said...

``I plan to help homeowners, the government's got a role to play,'' Bush said. ``But it's not the government's job to bail out speculators or those who made the decision to buy a home they couldn't afford.''

What provisions will be made to ensure that funding will not go back to the speculators?

How will the government distinguish a homeowner from a speculators when the agencies left with the responsibilities to provide the funds are just as greedy as the speculators?

Even if the Federal Government make new laws, what to say a lender will not change to a State charter or use lobbyists to find loop hole around those new laws?

A bailout without raising taxes will only weaken the US Dollar Index and encourage more speculation.

But during an election year anyone that sign that new regulation is only asking not to be re-elected.

So purposing a new regulation to bailout homeowners and not speculators is like purposing a new regulation that say hedge funds must pay their fair share of taxes neither one will happen.

In the end GREED and FEAR will take its natural course and find the path of less resistance so let the market forces play themselves out.

keith said...

CNBC's Diana Olick proves the White House is run by monkeys

We're so screwed...

ralph mosca said...

One question: why did all those people show up to the auction and not bid? Were they there just to witness the carnage, like lookee-loos staring at a fatal collision on a freeway?

I think they were housing bubble bloggers there to look at the carnage. I still can't believe people paid $700,000 to own an apartment and have to pay HOA and insurance. LMAO

Anonymous said...

Several generations of Americans have been hoodwinked by realtors and mortgage brokers the past 5 years. That should be the news of the year. Instead we get babble from the politicians about bailouts. Take your medicine and learn not to trust these commissioned liars next time.

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

Anyone who thinks this won't be a bailout isn't a chess player. Who will the lender of last resort be when all this shit paper gets marked to market from marked to Goldilocks? All you pollyannas who say the FED and the President and this congress aren't trying to bailout the playas are crazy as Hell! Don't take my word for it, but rather learn some frigging history already.

The f***ing elites of this country are taking [stealing] our money
while we try and decide what to do about all the so called liquidity which is nothing but a damn fancy word for debt.

A word of advise. Quit f***ing fighting amongst yourselves regarding politial parties because this is used to make damn sure the real issue of thievery by the elites is never discussed. The continuation of our country depends on us all extracting our heads out of our asses long enough to straighten out this mess using common sense and telling the elites to go f**K off.

Ex-Republican said...

Joon has it right. People should now feel absolutely zero responsibility to pay taxes - the government is knowingly giving your tax dollars to people who committed and supported gross fraud... If I'm not stealing in a game that punitively taxes work & rewards theft, that just makes me a sucker.

As a two decade Republican voter, I can now say the party has been utterly and totally corrupted by people who are knowingly selling us out and destroying the American dream. Not that the so-called Democrats are better, they may be even worse (they disagree with the dream in the first place, believing that you don't really legitimately earn anything and therefore have no standing to complain when they take it), but the Republican party values used to be worth believing in. No longer.

It's over.

The sale of our system of government to campaign financiers is now complete, and this country is not some place I want to live anymore.

Anonymous said...

Nation (like Colbert), let's put things in perspective here: more than 80% of home buyers in South Florida during the bubble were speculators who don't plan to live in the units. They need to flip the damn thing but nobody will buy them before foreclosure.

There are aprox. 70,000 condo units like that for sale ONLY in the Miami area, which will foreclose sooner or later. If the secret society idiot says that he will bailout just 80,000 FBs, COMMON SENSE tell us that it won't be anything earth shaking.

Another thing, with the housing bubble gone, there's nothing else to support this lie called American economy. The only thing that was holding this big lie called America together was the housing bubble and junk securities.

FBs can refinance their slave loans as much as they want, because without a job or good paycheck it will be very difficult to keep up with mortgages, even with bailouts.

Watch out for the tsunami of pink slips coming up. Dell is planning to give the boot to 8,000 employees (perhaps some of them are in the 80,000 bailout group?). Then you have the 140,000 cease & desist letters going out to employers that have illegal employees with fake social security numbers. The ACLU was able to hold those letters temporarily, but not for long. Add to that all the real estate related jobs in the toilette. There will be huge unemployment in this country coming up. Good luck trying to pay for those mortgages even with gov bailout, or putting 20% down payment together to buy new homes.


Anonymous said...

The government should just issue a check to every American for, oh, say, $100,000, and let the recipient use the money to be bailed out or for whatever reason. We don't want to discriminate against anyone now do we?

This bail out idea of Pres. Bush's and Congress illustrates how corrupt our political system is.

robert said...

zoiks said...
“One question: why did all those people show up to the auction and not bid? Were they there just to witness the carnage, like lookee-loos staring at a fatal collision on a freeway?”

Yep. If you haven’t been to a foreclosure auction, I highly recommend it. If anything, just to see the process in action. I’ve gone to a few and it always shines a little insight on things.

I’m not there to bid and I get a few hostile stares from the investors and realtors. But it usually goes like this:

Bank starts the bid at $XXXK. Investors/realtors laugh and don’t bid. Bank goes home with property still on the books. Investors/realtors hang around talking about how the property is worth $XXK-$XXXK less than opening bid.

Bill in AZ said...

More on Bill Gross' recent begging:

The genius set himself up real "genius-like".

Anonymous said...

In the BAIL OUT PLAN where is the line "HOMEOWNERS NOT REQUIRING GOVERMENT ASSISTANCE SHALL RECEIVE AN EQUIVALENT TAX CREDIT" to fund mortgage delinquincies through penalties and fines collected from corrupt realtors, title companies, real estate attorneys, mortgage companies, and fraudulent acts perpetrated by the borrower.