The next twenty years will be defined not by the battles between Christians vs. Muslims, Dems vs. Reps or Coke vs. Pepsi.
No, it'll be the epic financial and cultural battle between GenX/GenY and the Baby Boomers that will dominate from this point forward. With the first Boomers retiring, America $50 Trillion in debt and growing, GenX/GenY unable to afford a home, and the country facing the complete destruction of its manufacturing base, the battle has begun whether you see it or not.
By the way, I've got my money on the Baby Boomers winning this battle. X/Y are just too damn lazy, clueless and uninterested to compete against the greediest and most self-interested generation of all time. But if the Baby Boomers win this battle, America will become insolvent, and the Boomers kids and their kids and the idiots who bought US bonds will be left holding the bag.
The housing crash is just the start. If X/Y don't buy the depreciating homes of the Boomers, who based their retirements on that one asset (and X/Y keeping the entitlements Ponzi Scheme going), then the battle will have been joined.
X/Y vs. BB - Let's get it on.
In 2030, as 77 million baby boomers hobble into old age, walkers will outnumber strollers; there will be twice as many retirees as there are today but only 18 percent more workers.
How will America handle this demographic overload? How will Social Security and Medicare function with fewer working taxpayers to support these programs?
According to Laurence Kotlikoff and Scott Burns, if our government continues on the course it has set, we'll see skyrocketing tax rates, drastically lower retirement and health benefits, high inflation, a rapidly depreciating dollar, unemployment, and political instability.
August 01, 2007
It's GenX/GenY versus the Baby Boomers, Round 1 (XY vs. BB). Let's Get It On!
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114 comments:
Baby Boomers want it all, free or cheap education, low house prices, low tuition, low or no student loans, greater job security prior to globalization (which they initiated to get cheaper products), low taxes, and then to top it all off free healthcare and a cash check every month from their children and grandchildren to whom they have given next to nothing. The Baby Boomers are the worst generation in history, the only good news about them all retiring is that they are getting closer to dying, so we can ll have our planet back. How is that for a bad attitude?
meh... I think it'll be a draw. There's a lot more boomers than us (genX), but they're fat and lazy and old.
I wish that genX slacker stereotype would just die. most of us grew up.
now, genY/millenials, there's a load of narcissistic entitled twats. goddam kids, get off my lawn!
Until X/Y vote, or until they even understand what's going on (which they don't), then in my book they're slackers that will have their futures stolen by the boomers
How's that prescription drug benefit working out for X/Y so far?
The Boomers who need society's help deserve our help. But something has to change. The housing ponzi scheme is over, so should the entitlement ponzi scheme end.
We just don't have the money.
they're obese too, i opt for the Soylent Green solution.
"According to Laurence Kotlikoff and Scott Burns, if our government continues on the course it has set, we'll see skyrocketing tax rates, drastically lower retirement and health benefits, high inflation, a rapidly depreciating dollar, unemployment, and political instability."
Outside of the current "underemployment" situation I see no difference between prevailing conditions and the future the authors are predicting!!
Keith,
Why have us fighting over crumbs when there is a world to win? Why subordinate all to the needs of the few who hold claim to wealth? I'm not playing your game any more, Keith. To you, everybody deserves nothing. I appreciate the fact that you cover stories others won't but underneath it all you're just another Neo-Puritan.
so stop voting for democrats already
DOPES
Gen X/Y will drop out of the system. In Japan and Italy, they live at home forever, work temp/cash jobs.
Gen Y will be as scarred as the Depression generation. Savings accounts only for them.
What the hell is a "Neo-Puritan"? If that's left or right, conservative or liberal, you got the wrong guy
What I am is a concerned American
Neo-Puritan. Love it!
Just guessing here with no data to back it up but I would guess more gen x/y ers have been hurt by the housing downturn. A 60 year old boomer who bought a house 20 years ago can ride out a 10% or 20% price correction. He bought the house for $100K it was worth $500K in 2005 and will be worth $400K in 2008. Big deal, so he lost $100K of paper profit.
A 29 year old who bought 2 years ago for $500K will lose $100K or real money and will be fucked.
And also why do you assume boomers will all be selling tomorrow? Avergae life span is well into the 80s now. Todays boomers have 20-30 years before dying, I don't see this mad rush to sell anytime soon.
The plans are in place for all of that 401K tax revenue down the road. Future tax rates will be through the roof.
My advice: Take charge of your own affairs! kick wall street and big brother to the curb (they don’t have your best interest at heart). Withdraw, pay the tax and penalty, place in money market for 6%.
Benefit: Satisfaction of knowing that you no longer feed the monsters. It’s your money no longer subject to the whims of the wall street/gov. No future tax obligations other than earned interest. 100K at 6% for 15 years is close to 250K.
The interest will provide a monthly income while maintaining the principal. No advice here just food for thought..
Mexicans will leave, no jobs. Boomers all move to Canada for free healthcare.
Problem solved.
Interesting question - would make a good Stupid Question of the Day:
Who got hurt more by the housing crash - X/Y or Boomers?
X/Y bought at the peak and will now go bankrupt en masse. Ones who do not will become slaves to their mortgage, barely making ends meet.
Boomers bought long ago and likely rode the bubble all the way up, and have good equity (if they didn't suck it out with the Housing ATM), equity which they planned to retire on (since they didn't save enough being the over-consumers they are.
Who got hurt the most?
X/Y. They bought at the peak and got crushed.
Thus launching the X/Y vs. BB war.
"By the way, I've got my money on the Baby Boomers winning this battle. X/Y are just too damn lazy, clueless and uninterested to compete against the greediest and most self-interested generation of all time."
Yeah, but gen X/Y have anger control issues, and really don't give a shit. What happens when a whole generation gives up on working/filing taxes cause its just not worth it?
Anonymous said...
Gen X/Y will drop out of the system. In Japan and Italy, they live at home forever, work temp/cash jobs.
Gen Y will be as scarred as the Depression generation. Savings accounts only for them.
August 01, 2007 10:52 PM
-----------------
More like gold under the matress. "Saving" large quantities of FRNs will soon be revealed to be an exercise in futility.
Even Greenscam himself hinted that the government may just print money to pay retirement benefits when he said the government can guarantee the dollar amount of the benefits, but not the purchasing power of those dollars.
If gen x/y are such slackers then the boomers are going to be in trouble when they get old and grey. Slackers aren't going to take interest in taking care of old folks. Slackers aren't going to work to pay high taxes for old folks benefit.
I reckon boomers are going to get old and then gen x/y are going to expropriate the boomers assets by charging exorbitantly for their health care etc. in their old age.
Jack
keith said...
Interesting question - would make a good Stupid Question of the Day:
Who got hurt more by the housing crash - X/Y or Boomers?
X/Y bought at the peak and will now go bankrupt en masse. Ones who do not will become slaves to their mortgage, barely making ends meet.
Boomers bought long ago and likely rode the bubble all the way up, and have good equity (if they didn't suck it out with the Housing ATM), equity which they planned to retire on (since they didn't save enough being the over-consumers they are.
Who got hurt the most?
X/Y. They bought at the peak and got crushed.
Thus launching the X/Y vs. BB war.
------------------
Yeah, overall the POS boomers were certainly in a better chronological position to benefit from the housing bubble, at least as long as they were not complete fiscal fools. Those that took out equity for Escalades, vacations, and other crap are screwed, potentially more screwed than younger people since they have less time to repair the damage. Those that decided they were real estate tycoons and bought "investment property" at or near the peak are also screwed.
Know the players:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer
I think I'm in the Gen X sweet spot.
Born in 1963. Worked in silicon valley for almost 20 years. Spent so much time working, never bought a property, just rented cheap apts all these years. Plowed all my $$ into stock portfolios that have grown large. No one I know really understood why I didnt want the McMansion lifestyle in Los Altos.
Now I can scale back the career, move back east, and buy my friends McMansions for pennies on the dollar!!
LOL!!!
LOVING IT!!
Could not have said it any better!
James said
"Yeah, but gen X/Y have anger control issues, and really don't give a shit. What happens when a whole generation gives up on working/filing taxes cause its just not worth it?"
I am Sooooooo Angry! All I know is elder abuse is going to be fun! Pay back is a pregnant female dog!
AARP is a terrorist organization!
For all you X/Yers, I offer this anecdote. While in our late 30s, my wife and I attended a town hall meeting with our district's Congressional representative. We had issues that we thought were important to the national interest and wanted to discuss them with said rep. Fat chance of that.
The primary focus of the town hall meeting was (drum roll, please) social security. As in, "What's the future of SS?" Or, "I'm notch baby, can you help me get more SS money?" Etc.
Guess who dominated this meeting? Yep, senior citizens. Were there any younger adults in the room? Hell no.
Boomers aren't stupid, they know how to work the system and you can damn well bet that that representative left the meeting with a clear understanding of what not to do...screw with social security benefits.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease and young adults don't know how to squeal (yet).
ha
best price 3.99, high demand for that book there.
how is there going to be such high unemployment when there's only 18% more workers and a worker shortage?
"Todays boomers have 20-30 years before dying..."
Do they, or will they meet an early demise at the hands of the X/Y's? I mean, what are the figures on the amount of money spent in the last 6 months of life?
Boomers are gonna get their plugs pulled whether it be literally by their spoiled rotten kids (whom I do not consider X/Y's) or politically, by the younger generations taking "their" money. Not sure which one, but it will happen.
Boomers= Locusts
Gen X & Y slackers? Compared to a bunch of hippies?
The Gen X slacker stereotype was produced by the hippie baby boomers in the MSM to make themselves look better. They see themselves as changing the world for good while the Gen Xers ride their coat tails. In reality they just screwed it up and are leaving it for others to fix.
One of the countless articles I wish I had cut out and filed away was an article in The Economist a few years back that described Generation X as much harder working and much more finanicaly conservative than their Baby Boomer counterparts. The down side was that it said that Gen Xers were much more "team players" and less "individualistic" than the boomers. So, in short, Gen X is harder working but more prone to sheepish group thinking.
Couple the sheep think with a lack of education (the boomers destroyed education more than anything else) and it's going to be a hard fight to fight.
Run Runner, Run!
What happens when milloins of x/y renounce their US citizenships and leave?
Boomer here.
It's ironic--my generation was so self-righteous about the defects of the world, and so harshly critical of the generation that went before (when that generation actually brought us through the Depression and WWII. Not for nuthin was it called the Greatest Generation) And now we are getting slammed with criticism. Serves us, as a generation, right.
Personally, I wasn't nearly as self-righteous as many of my peers, even back in tha' day. But that doesn't really matter at this point, does it? And I was self-righteous about some things.
To all the XY'ers though: in the interest of some humility, keep in mind that when it comes your time to be on the generational cusp, you're going to get slammed, too. Big time. It's in the nature of things.
There are always huge, enormous things to criticize about the immediately preceding generation. The Greatest Generation didn't end segregation and it didn't embrace women's rights. And the Boomers blew it financially. We'll see what's next.
Enjoy.
Baby Doomers
I'll just take my millions and leave the country. I'm not going to be taxed to death for these fat f*cks.
My slam of the Boomers is stealing the money of X/Y and future generations. Never before have we seen an intergenerational transfer of wealth anywhere near this scale.
Pay as you go became don't pay at all
It's shameful, it's unethical and it's deceitful.
And I believe a very good number of Boomers agrees with me on this - it's their leaders (and majority) who failed.
Meanwhile, it's up to X/Y to stop this economic disaster before it's too late.
And it's getting too late right about... Now.
I'm a Gen-Xer, and all the Baby Boomers who keep slamming us as lazy, shiftless, etc. are everything they accuse us of being.
Me and my colleagues in my generation work 60, 70, 80 or 90 hour weeks. We build new businesses, we don't have "defined benefit pensions," we're not raising kids (or if we are, we're doing it much later), we have crushing university debts that the Boomers didn't have, and we're the first American generation to have a lower standard of living than the prior generation.
Compare this to the 40 hour work weeks, defined benefit pensions, and easy living the Boomers had. If they had to work 1/2 the hours that the average Xer professional does today (or worse, the hours and low wages entry-level Generation Y kids will have to work when they exit college), they'd be squealing like pigs.
What did the Boomers give us? Big debts, the summer of love, endless wars in Iraq, a depreciating currency, xenophobia, etc.
Bad news for you, though, boys -- there's NO WAY you can "win." Generation X and Generation Y people are also mobile, and we have no assets to lose -- we never managed to build them, since they were taxed away from us, stolen from our retirement funds, or siphoned away in the crazy-assed rents required to live where there are any jobs. So come and take, you won't get much.
Even better still, we're great coders, multilingual, technological innovators who run circles around the 50-somethings and olders, etc.
So if you boys and girls come to take, we'll just go where there's more money to be made and opportunity. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are so desperate for immigrants of our skill set that they're hiring ad and PR agencies -- and recruitment agencies -- to convince Americans to go there. We'll just wave goodbye to the spoiled, greedy, lazy Boomers and their entitlement demands and head on off to where the living is cheaper, the population smaller, the cost of living lower, the quality of life higher, and the opportunities are still there for people who are willing to work hard (like we do every day).
Boomers can enjoy being greeters at WalMart and wonder why they were able to spend $300,000 on fancy vacations to Bermuda in their working years, but don't have $300 in their checking accounts.
You see, Generation X and Generation Y are both the most dangerous sorts of people -- we really have nothing left to lose!
If you renounce your US citizenship and high tail it out of the US you also give up your right to social security and medicaid/medicare benefits
But if they get pulled or reduced (which they will), and you can move from high-tax USA to low tax (pick your developing country), then this could be geo-arbitrage-deluxe if the numbers work for you.
Bet nobody ever thought of this one eh?
Globalization has many unintended consequences. Worldwide economic geo-arbitrage will be one of them.
This blog was rollin' until this thread. What a buzzkill...
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world
Dubai's looking good... If you like arabs and hot weather of course
This supposed bunch of slackers was creating yahoo, google, ebay, netscape, AOL, etc during the 90s. Working 18 hr days in basements and garages.
WTF were the boomers doing that time? Oh I know, they were pumping and dumping the shares of the above all for the quick get rich scheme they first experimented with in the 80s...see Miliken and S&L criis.
Hot weather and arabs....so how is that any different than L.A.?
"I believe a very good number of Boomers agrees with me on this"
I do indeed!
I hate being associated with such materialistic greedy ba$tards but yes I am in that group although I’m of the younger boomers
i disagree. the coming wars will not be between generations but between races of people who have been thrown together by force. this country was designed to be a country full of europeans. now it is becoming something much worse. when you have people that come to your country and refuse to assimilate into the culture and continue to hold on to their own culture, then you have a built in problem. the one world wantabees did this. they want a race war. it makes their job easier. while we are fighting each other, they tighten up the reigns on freedoms and power. our future is enclaves and fenced cities and areas where similar types of people live within the walls. america will fractionalize along racial lines. chinese, asians, mexicans, africans, blacks, etc....it is the future of america and is coming fast...
There is no doubt that the Baby Boomers will get everything they squeal and oink for, and more.
Why? Old people vote like crazy. And they vote crazy.
There are zillions of them who rant and rave about "socialist hippies" and then demand more Social Security and Medicare! Me me me me!
Already it's hard to be reasonable on this. Imagine that the voting power of this group doubles.
Payroll taxes will hit 40%. Elderly will be by far the wealthiest in society (oh wait, they are already and yet congressmen lick their boots with all sorts of special attention and privileges), and taxed the least, and with the most benefits.
Gen X gets the shaft, as usual, as they will be in traditional "prime earning years" exactly when boomers will be in "prime taking years". Tax 'em to the moon!
Cranky old people have plenty of time to pester congressmen and go to 'town hall meetings' to whine about getting More Money For Me and complain about all those lazy Gen X and Yers who want their government to do something as communists.
If you renounce your US citizenship and high tail it out of the US you also give up your right to social security and medicaid/medicare benefits
I'm sure the greedy seniors will pressure their congressdroids to allow them to vote overseas and get full benefits, and pay no US taxes. And when they get some complex medical problem they'll come back to America for socialized medicine, and rant about how all those democrat liberals are going to push socialized medicine on everybody.
Predictions:
We will live to see the resurrection of small to medium sized manufacturing output in the U. S.
Rules regarding early withdrawal of 401k funds will be modified to allow over extended home owners the opportunity to withdraw funds from their accounts provided that the money is used to pay down or pay off mortgages (or possibly other debts). They will pay a tax but the penalty will be graciously waived. We can't let too many banks go "tits up" afterall.
Middle East veterans will return to view what they’ve been fighting and risking being killed over and they will become pissed.
The U.S. will “shrink to grow” just like a good corporation should from time to time. Just ask Ford.
The end of the housing boom will afford the country less expensive gasoline for a time. (Actually I think this is happening right now in some areas; at $2.59 per gallon in St. Louis, gasoline is still expensive but not as high as it should be with $76 - $78 dollar per barrel oil prices).
Large companies will begin to look into company housing adjacent to or near their employment centers.
Boomers, having taken the long rope of easy credit and hanging themselves with same, have more work to do in digging out. Not all of them, but many, will work until the day they drop out of necessity. It couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people.
But wait, the government and the corporate MSM told me that illiterate illegal border jumping criminals are going to save Social Security and Medicare by picking cabbage, walking around with leaf blowers, and working at Taco Bell! And they are going to buy up all the baby boomers' overpriced houses on their $6/hour wages too! All our problems will be solved if enough Third Worlders move here, especially if they come illegally. Bonus points for being illiterate!
I always find it ironic when people use the web to call Gen X "slackers", since we're the generation that invented, built, and continue to maintain and expand the web and its infrastructure. How many Boomers expected to work 80 hour weeks or to get paged at 3 AM to fix network outages?
"I'm sure the greedy seniors will pressure their congressdroids to allow them to vote overseas and get full benefits, and pay no US taxes. And when they get some complex medical problem they'll come back to America for socialized medicine, and rant about how all those democrat liberals are going to push socialized medicine on everybody."
Yep, thats pretty much whats happened here in UK already.
WHOEVER RUNS THIS WEBSITE IS OBVIOUSLY SOME PATHETIC 23 YEAR OLD DISGRUNTLED WIMP THAT CANNOT LAND A JOB PAYING MORE THATN 30K.
NO WONDER HE IS SO PISSED OFF. TOUGH TO AFFORD A HOUSE WITH $30K INCOME.
HE SHOULD STOP WATCHING VH1 LIFESTYLE OF RICH AND FAMOUS.
I'm Gen-X and if I can't keep my money, I'll practice voluntary simplicity.
Let me just clarify that the Greatest Generation (TOM BROKAW)
Should be included with the boomers.
F$&K F D R---TRUMAN---JOHNSON---
GERITOL---NIXON---BUSH---CLINTON ---BUSHbaby---
The Boomers mommies,and daddies traded the constitution for socialism/fascism by the shipload.
Thanks ,ya flag waving morons
You're D*mn right baby boomers will win. Even after the housing bust, we'll still have wads more than the lazy-ass, unpatriotic, socialist-leaning, atheist, tatooed, ear-pierced gen x/y children!
I got news for you folks, it wasn't the baby boomers that caused the housing boom. Its the genX folks who want to believe their rich on their 120k salaries buying million dollar houses. Its the genX folks who are pointing the finger at everyone else for their foreclosures. If the genX'ers didn't think they were entitled to whatever they want no matter what the cost, we wouldn't have had a baby boom. These young folks had to buy a McMansion when the interest rates went down instead of something affordable. I don't think we should blame the Baby Boomers for selling at high prices if the idiot genX are dump enough to pay it.
>>>>This supposed bunch of slackers was creating yahoo, google, ebay, netscape, AOL, etc during the 90s. Working 18 hr days in basements and garages.<<<
oh poor baby...working 18 hours a day playing video games...........boo hoo hoo....
Simple. We kick the Bommers out of their mansions and take by force everything they have. We'll be younger and fitter than those obese zombies. Good luck boomers!
Each succeeding bubble has been worse than its predecessor. Thus nobody is actually able to spot the cycle, since it just looks like a continuum. I can assure you that after this next collapse, nobody will think of the dot-com bubble as anything other than a prelude.
these generation x and y crybabies need to stfu and get in line and behave and pay your damn taxes...i want my damn ss and i want it now. it is your duty to pay ss for us older types so we can sit back and relax while you are working 18 hours a day just to buy a loaf of bread.....get with it boys and girls....we want our ss and we want it now damn it!....
That's why ALL Boomers are republican voters. They are greedy and evil.
gen x , gen y ; boomer wannabees
News Flash, Fat Boomers will not live any longer than any other group of people. In fact, former smoking, drug taking Boomers will die sooner than they think. Boomers need to be told that they are OLD, and they will not live longer, or gasp, forever. I have never seen a group that denies the reality of age and death as boomers, must have to do with too much drinking and smoking in their youth.
Gas prices are down due to hedge funds exiting their positions with the end up summer driving season. The technicals have broken down and the players are taking their profits and moving to oil.
ChIndia has 10x the population of the USA and they all want to live like us. They want running water, electricity, cars, gizmos and gadgets. The Chinese have been on a natural resources binge. They have been buying up every oil and natural gas reserve they can get their hands on around the world. Americans better get used to the fact that they aren't the only 800lb gorilla these days. We could easily slip into recession and see inflation due to Asia's growth.
If you have highly demanded skills, you can move to another country and let the boomers rot away. Immgrate to Europe, Australia, Asia or South America. Don't worry about losing your Social Security. It won't be there by the time you retire anyways. The same thing is already happening to the welfare state of California. Educated professionals and entrepreneurs are leaving the state to old people and a multiplying uneducated Latino population. The entire USA will be facing the same problem in the next 20 years as educated middle-class Americans flee the country due to rising crime, inflation and taxes.
Making generalizations about a generation is as silly as making generalizations about race.
I know steady, responsible Boomers and i know Boomers to whom i wouldn't loan a pencil.
It wasn't Boomers who controlled the U.S. Congress when the Social Security/Medicare debacle began. It certainly wasn't Boomers who began the issuance of fiat currency.
The author of many of our society's woes, Greenspan; he surely was no Boomer.
If Boomers can be charged with anything, it is that they failed to fix the errors of their fathers, the so-called 'Greatest Generation'.
"Todays boomers have 20-30 years before dying..."
Not to worry. Rationed HillaryCare should drop 15 years off life expectancy. That, and the "Mass Starvations" of the 2020s.
What do you mean when you say the baby boomers will win?
That they will successfully impovrish their children?
That's 'winning' now?
I think I'll go crush some fingers with a hammer so I can 'win' too.
When hillary gets in the whitehouse with both houses of congress at her will, I expect a big military cut. Less than one third of what we have now, and with all that money saved, free healthcare will replace bush's nation building of choice for less than one half the cost! What a concept. Nation building replaced by free healthcare. That sure sounds like a tough choice, doesn't it? LOL, and with free healthcare and a pared back budget deficit, the deficits will shrink, as companies profits will swell, with no healthcare cost; and tax payments will increase do to excesses in profits. Then there will be no gen x y/ boomer debate. Balanced budgets, shrinking deficits, alls happy. Hey, Canada does it this way.
I wish it were so here, but no way, to many stupid fascist freeks in the US, therefore the only way out is dual citizenship. Gawd I wish Canada would buy Florida from the US. All they would have to do is bribe a few well connected republibans. Where is the 'dukester' when you need him? LOL
But if the Baby Boomers win this battle, America will become insolvent......
=================================
Like it's not already insolvent?
This ones a no-brainer.
40 percent of house sales in the last few years were 'second' homes.
As the Boomers retire - who is going to pay large amounts of money to buy their stuff ?
A: No one.
kochevnik
You're bang on, Keith. It's intergenerational war for sure. I was born in 1978, bang in the middle of X/Y and I've been watching this slow train coming for about 10 years now. The internet is cutting up the social myth into so many tiny fragments, tearing down the facade of lies that have been hiding the sham our "governemnts" operate in. It's over, kaput. All my money's in nickel and silver, nickel and copper, all physical, no paper garbage. All my unsecured debt is a writeoff (~100K) and I just throw away letters from the collection comapnies. Stupid bastards, playing the old man's game.
keith said...
"How's that prescription drug benefit working out for X/Y so far?"
===================================
FYI that prescription drug benefit is a joke. It is a subsidy to Big Pharma and the insurance companies.
The US needs more immigrants and open borders to keep the economy expanding. Otherwise, there won't be enough money to pay tribute to the blacks and they will riot.
Entertaining thread but largely moot. The U.S. is already broke, unless you think the accumulation of more debt represents wealth. Treasury Sec. Paulson just called for Congress to enact the traditional raising of the debt ceiling to $9 trillion, to add to the $50 trillion in unfunded liabilities. We'll be hyperinflating our way out of debt soon enough.
In the meantime, the real conflicts will be global resource wars. Not just for oil and natural gas, but for water as well.
So we can all spout off about how the young folks are going to kill and eat the old folks, but the reality is the world is changing in ways that most of us in the industrialized nations are not prepared to deal with.
The real enemies are not generational. They are those of our political and corporate elite who want to maintain their wealth and power in the face of dwindling resources. Access to real wealth,ie, energy and capital is becoming a zero sum game. Those with the power to control energy and capital will be the new feudal lords.
Buzz kill.
Keith,
If you read your passport you will note that you can't renounce your citizenship for the purpose of evading taxes.
I am a US Ex pat working in Asia and am back in the US less than 30 days a year but still have to file taxes and the higher of the US rate or my home country, like AMT. The US is one of the few countries that has such a policy, truly taxation without representation.
BC
I don't think there will be intergenerational warfare. We will all be far poorer than we are used to and fighting to save some semblance of western civilization from MANY onslaughts - US bankruptcy, muslim terrorism, global warming, peak oil (or just supply being outstripped by demand), Aztlan revolutionaries, and health problems from a polluted environment and the vaccine industry.
Medicare is going down sooner than many of you might guess - and as a result only the oldest and/or wealthiest of the baby boomers will even attempt to retire.
Those that aren't both foresighted and fortunate will work until they can't, then live with their kids if they have kids that like them, then die.
The baby boomers will only be more fortunate in that they had more good years before TSHTF.
In my opinion it's time to start thinking about how to save a few shards of western civilization so the next civilization can have a head start (a la Asimov's foundation series). I would say the most important part of that is neutering fundamentalist Islam.
blah blah blah
waa waa waa
let's try a different paradigm.
i am a gen x-er with a freakin' brain in my head, planning to "retire" (or at least stop playing by mainstream rules) within the next 10 years. we are also looking at building an off-grid home, OURSELVES, and paying for land and materials in cash.
i'm not whining about the boomers, even though they bug the s**t out of me, nor am i a slacker. i have just figured out a way to make it work for myself and my husband (no we have no kids--don't want 'em and they are too expensive even if we did).
the next generation? those of us who have a clue are embracing them, trying to nurture them and help them realize their hopes and dreams of a sustainable future--not dismissing them by buying into your us vs. them mentality.
do you really care about our future? don't focus on life versus the boomers; focus on life post the boomers--and holding the line until we get there.
Inflation is what will do in the Boomers. The coming shortage of skilled workers will lead to a big round of wage inflation for those still in the workforce. Supply and demand, don't you know. So Boomers, I have good news and bad news: the good news is Gen X/Y will be happy to pay $700,000 for your house ... the bad news is that by then, $700,000 will have about $200,000 worth of purchasing power in today's dollars ...
FYI I know lots of great boomers. I know lots of boomers who understand that their reckless generation spent all the money.
And I know we're $50 Trillion in debt and won't be able to pay for the Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare benefits that people think are due them.
The charade is over. But only a few have figured it out.
Be one of the ones that have figured it out, and just like housing, take that knowledge and get ready.
Real estate agents, mortage companies, illegal aliens, now boomers. Pitting this group against that, finding enemies around every corner.
I like your blog but this scapegoating is getting kinda nutty.
The real enemy is capitalism. The hypercompetitive, savage kind most of you voted for and embrace out of ignorance.
I am an X and when I run this little pacific tinpot country the boomers will pay!! They will pay with property tax, carbon tax, fart tax any tax I want...
We have the same issues here, but the beauty of living in a hilly country is when they all get dodgy hips and knees and have to trade down to a flat piece of land, they are going to screw themselves cause they are not making any more flat land here. ha ha ha
Boomers voted all the criminals into office for the last 6 years, therefore boomers are responsible for the Iraq war and this current financial mess.
I'm a Gen X'r, 38 yrs old, living in California. I bought in 1998 shortly after I started my internet business (1997) at 350K (1500 sq/ft condo- prime W. Hollywood penthouse), and never took any cash out- didn't need to. The last 5 years I averaged 500K/ year income. I bought another property in Vegas in 2003 as I thought prices were too high in LA, and after watching the movie Casino, my dream was to own a golf course home. So being that I go to Vegas a lot, I bought a 3500 sq/ft home on the golf course, pool, jacuzzi, for 600K (2003). At a superbowl party last year in February, I was telling a few of the guys (mortage brokers, realtors, contactors- typical Vegas 30 something male demographic) that these prices can't go on forever. It's all about the fundamentals. I had to use a sports example, Tim Duncan, to try and make my point. He plays fundamental basketball. That's why he wins games. These other guys are just anomalies (duh??? what's that??))
Exactly.
I didn't sell then knowing what was coming (I live on the web and read like crazy), because I needed a base for when I visit Vegas, and I have clients that I bring over for pool parties/barbecues and invite all my stripper friends over. Needless to say, I am highly esteemed by each and every one of them.
Sadly, I don't play golf, but who needs that network channel when I've got my own angle. Differentiate yourself and provide a good product, the key to success in any business.
I go on four one week trips a year, each time to a different country to try and see the world (another reason I'm not married).
Nothing beats Latin and Eastern European women. Nothing. Take my word for it.
Am I cocky, yes. And for good reason. I am a producer, not a consumer. I believe in enriching everyone I meet, whether it's with a smile, increased business, compassion, you name it.
Last year I paid $250K in income taxes. It irks the heck out of me that I pay so much in taxes, yet receive nothing in return. My siblings who are older have left the state as the school system here is not one they would like to raise their chiildren in. I only stay as I support my aging parents and I am the only one of four siblings who is able to do so. Being a business major with an emphasis in finance, as well as an entrepeneur who succeeded in building a multi-million dollar business, I can strongly relate to many of the issues discussed here. This post really hits home, though, because at the age of 27 I was able to start a business with nothing and $80K in debt (student loans, credit cards), and now I'm rolling in the dough, but I'm very disenchanted. Disenchanted with the separation amongst many different lines, be it generational, racial, political, whatever.
In the end, it's all a constant struggle. That's simply human nature.
"together we stand, divided we fall"
Thanks for hearing me out.
i am a gen x-er with a freakin' brain in my head, planning to "retire" (or at least stop playing by mainstream rules) within the next 10 years. we are also looking at building an off-grid home, OURSELVES, and paying for land and materials in cash.
i'm not whining about the boomers, even though they bug the s**t out of me, nor am i a slacker. i have just figured out a way to make it work for myself and my husband (no we have no kids--don't want 'em and they are too expensive even if we did).
=================================
Jesus, you whine and think just like a boomer. Baby Boomer is a mental illness and it has spread to other generations, including yours.
Look at your fantasy plans. Can anyone survive if the country's economy collapses? I dont care if you paid "cash" for this, that or the next thing.
We were once the most powerful nation on this planet because for one thing we were a "producer" society. Then we got hit with the Kennedy assassination, Vietnam etc. and the whole culture , especially the baby boomers went insane.
If you want to save future generations then you must reject every policy which came after the assassination of President Kennedy.
It’s not about Gen X, Y or Boomers. It’s about Federal, State and local governments and the bureaucrats and politicians that run them. In the early 90’s the number of people employed by US governments exceeded the number working in United States manufacturing. Governments continue to grow at a rate of 5 to 10% per year while manufacturing jobs steadily erode. Bureaucrats have only one priority, their own welfare. From the worthless Congress down to your local county supervisor, their only concern for the private sector is it’s continuing ability to produce tax revenue. If you don’t pay them, they will take it from you and your family. The coming revolution will be against them.
Anonymous said...
>>>>This supposed bunch of slackers was creating yahoo, google, ebay, netscape, AOL, etc during the 90s. Working 18 hr days in basements and garages.<<<
oh poor baby...working 18 hours a day playing video games...........boo hoo hoo....
August 02, 2007 2:07 AM
==============
That may well be the stupidest comment ever on HP. And I'm including trolls' comments.
You know your chart shows that, on average, Bush is spending less then Clinton (as a percent of GDP) even with a war on and tax cuts...
Marky Mark
Cabrones, pendejos y maricones!
a better way said...
When hillary gets in the whitehouse with both houses of congress at her will, I expect a big military cut. Less than one third of what we have now, and with all that money saved, free healthcare will replace bush's nation building of choice for less than one half the cost! What a concept. Nation building replaced by free healthcare.
=============
Damn it you socialits just don't get it. Nothing is free. You have 3 options with health care:
1. You pay the doctor directly.
2. A HMO/PPO who pays the doctor. The HMO/PPO is paid by an employer via insurance premiums. The employer pays those premiums with the money he would otherwise pay you in the form of higher wages.
3. The guberment pays the doctor with money collected from you via higher taxes.
1,2 or 3 you end up paying. Unless of course you don't work in which case you pay no taxes. Perfect solution then. I work, you don't. I pay taxes. You don't. Yet you still have the same access to health care as me.
Yeah great fucking idea Mr. Marx.
Please don't ever reproduce.
I think the boomers who spoiled their kids and gave them everything will now get bit in the butt. When the X/Y ers find out they cant live on a declining salary and housing is way out of reach.. they will start pounding on the secure walls the boomers think they have in place. What goes around... comes around.. The boomers spoil their kids.. and the kids will want everything under the sun in their lifetime.. or.. everyone will be on Prozack
Anon 9:55 AM :
Sorry to burst your bubble, but percentagewise, Xers voted in much higher numbers for Bush AND the Iraq War than the Boomers did.
Nice theory tho.
Easy! Immigrants have to pay a flat income tax of 50%.
You want come here. You pay.
The Boomers vote. The younger folks are too worried about how cool they look or don't with the latest IPOD.
They'll be wage slaves for the baby boomers. A virtual certainty.
Anonymous said...
You know your chart shows that, on average, Bush is spending less then Clinton (as a percent of GDP) even with a war on and tax cuts...
Marky Mark
August 02, 2007 2:02 PM
===
Shut up troll. Go back to watching Fox News. I read on dailykos that Bush is the devil and Michael Moore also said so therefore it is true.
You guys are wrong. All of you. Americans' mindless consumption is repulsive, and it aggravates the country's debt problem, but it is not the source.
When the GG's came home from WWII, the U.S. was a financial fortress. LBJ put us in the tank when he started to print $ to pay for the Vietnam war. Nixon was forced to take us off the gold standard in 1971. This was the turning point in the decline of U.S. financial strength. We get weaker every day.
Individual consumption is expensive, but governmental consumption in the form of wars and empire building is more expensive. American politicos have this image of the U.S. as the savior of the world forever. This self-image was originated by the GG in the aftermath of WWII. It's what has allowed our leaders to rationalize assasinations, massive military expenditures with bases all over the world, and completely irrational military adventures. Cut the defense budget in half, put those soldiers and airmen to work in the civilian sector, and there will be plenty of $ to pay down the debt and afford us all a decent lifestyle.
http://tinyurl.com/2gu688
The free healthcare will be funded by the military cuts. Taxpayer funded healthcare as opposed to taxpayer funded nation building of choice, and the 'blowback' that comes with it.
And by the way, you fascist freeks do know that the next 10 leading industrialized nations in the world, yes world; provide free healthcare to all its citizens as a right for being a citizen.
When will you nation building freeks understand that it is better to save a life than to waste one. If you had half a brain do ya think they might just know something you don't.
And by the way, they all balance their deficits better than we, and what does that tell ya skippy?
or, it could just as easily be the private sector workers vs. the public sector workers
if the market plunges, the govt pension plans disappear:
http://jessel.100megsfree3.com/pensions.jpg
at this point we are all just crabs in a barrel
I am from GenX, here's my 2 cents:
Don't forget about globalization and off-shoring and outsourcing and....something Boomers invented but never had to deal with.
At the same time, we have been importing H1Bs, illegals, hundreds of VISA categories at rates never before seen because we don't have enough workers! (ROTFL-Like engineers for instance, which have net job and wage losses in the past 6 years, but are being petitioned from foreign lands by the likes of Bill Gates)
And, in some ways, this recent change in America has proven one thing. All this progress, all this working on 'progress' generation upon generation, and the end result: We can not afford to have children anymore. If this doesn't prove that progress is bullsh*t, I don't know what does.
Just now my Boomer colleage tells me he's going on another vacation (his 7th of the year) even though he just got back from one 2 weeks ago. I laugh and call him out on this. He says 'when you have been working somewhere as long as me, you can have the same'. I say 'our generation can never work somewhere for 30 years, because everytime we get 3 years tenure somewhere we are downsized, outsourced, laid-off, offshored, realigned, or replaced with cheaper younger H1Bs' He says nothing because he knows I am right.
I don't think Gen Xers are lazy. I think they have rightfully given up on the notion of work hard, be productive, and get ahead. In my 10 years of writing software, 90% of my work has been thrown away due to 'realignments' of some sort or another. In the last 6 years, productivity has boomed and real wages are worthless (adjusted for real inflation!).
I also think Gen Xers have been brainwashed to believe that 'they can't do anything about the world' and 'activism is negativism and unpatriotic behaviour'. Most of them are medicated zombies that roll their eyes and lower their heads when I speak truths they don't want to hear. Sad but true.
...since we're the generation that invented, built, and continue to maintain and expand the web and its infrastructure.
The Internet came from ARPANet, circa 1960s.
The World Wide Web (the user-friendly software that sits on top of the internet hardware) was the brainchild of Tim_Berners-Lee (born 1955).
Anonymous said...
"Just guessing here with no data to back it up but I would guess more gen x/y ers have been hurt by the housing downturn."
-----------------------------------
If the people I work with are typical of the gen x/y or whatever, you are probably right. They fell for every fad that came along....Pokemon, WOW, Beanie Babies....D&D trading cards, all that crap. When it comes to money and investing, they are dumber than dirt.
@ james dean
you pissant little creep. Software developers such as yourself you chicken sh*t deserve to be downsized, outsourced and realigned. Go whine to your f*cking mother. Any software developer worth his/her salt works as a contractor raking in between $60-$80 per hour. That totals to almost $200k per year depending on how many hours you're prepared to work. H1B'ers work for $50 but they are not as savy and experienced. Go get a broom and enter the janitorial industry, you can call yourself a half circle engineer. Moron!
james dean said...
"I am from GenX, here's my 2 cents:
Don't forget about globalization and off-shoring and outsourcing and....something Boomers invented but never had to deal with......"
----------------------------------
I rest my case. Your generation is dumber than dirt.
Hey Blowfly, You sound educated! NOT!
As far as your chickensh*t comment, suffice it to say I am one of the most dangerous developers on the planet. Good thing I am too lazy to track down your Erkel self.
You spew crap, check your facts. I will surely tell my colleages (who are all employees) that they should quit and clean toilets since they are not contracting.
I am just not in the mood to rumble with fools today.
Where's My Job, Dude?
In 10 years, boatloads of slacking GenX/Y'ers will be successfully landing in Vietnam.
So if you boys and girls come to take, we'll just go where there's more money to be made and opportunity. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are so desperate for immigrants of our skill set that they're hiring ad and PR agencies -- and recruitment agencies -- to convince Americans to go there.
oh really? last time I looked at Australia they had an age cap of 40 for "skilled immigrants". but that was a few years ago. got a source for that? because I'm outta here in 5-10 years and I'd rather go to Australia than Chile or Argentina.
Ongoing healthcare costs, along with diminishing social-security funds, are just two things that will hit the majority of the population in this country.
However, I do agree that the next generations (X,Y,Z, ... etc..) are in for some really tough times, much worse than the impact on boomers.
I was speaking with two people from London the other day, they remarked how crazy the housing market is there as well. In many cases, children have to stay in their parents' homes for the simple fact that it's insanely expensive to even rent, let alone house debt - of course, this is become common here in the US as well.
This is a global problem, and anyone who hasn't taken their blinders off yet to realize this crisis we're in are in for one hell of a reality shock as we move into 2008.
Boomers will be at the mercy of angry illegal aliens and hoodrats. Any smart educated person would abandon ship in the next 20 years.
"What happens when a whole generation gives up on working/filing taxes cause its just not worth it?"
I'm starting to see a lot of this talk...for a while I thought I was the only one thinking this way.
Voting does not work. We're outnumbered, and the system is gamed beyond any chance of meaningful change. The only way to make a difference is to cut off funding...so I'm on vacation for an unspecified amount of time. There's a line from a Jewel song that sticks with me: "No longer lend your strength to that which you wish to be free from."
I busted ass running a company for nearly 20 years...60 hours a week, bi-annual one week vacations, and as I became 'richer' the price of a house just got higher...due to manipulation of the monetary system by people who profit by turning others into debt slaves.
Boomers, Xers, I'm not placing blame...it does not matter who is responsible, because I have no power over them. What matters is what I get for working hard and being productive, and that is no longer enough. I didn't mind sharing some, but I will not be financially raped.
So I'm free now. I do whatever the hell I want, when I want. I'll be broke in a few years, and at that point I'll evaluate whether it's worth returning to work. If not, I'll just join the other parasites sucking this big beast dry.
I've got a message for the voting populace: No Deal. You don't get 50k in annual in taxes from this carbon unit anymore.
For the banking industry that set up a feedback loop to drive profits by driving up the price of a house: No Deal. No interest payments for you. Sell your overpriced crap to eachother.
For the stock market charlatans with their imaginary product and their enormous, gamed roulette wheel: No Deal. You want to expand your company? Turn a profit and reinvest it.
For the old folks with no savings: My old man worked his whole life as a machinist, making about 20 bucks an hour, and put away nearly half a million. You want to bag on young people who don't want to contribute to your retirement? Have a conversation with your younger self.
For the people who think I owe them a profit for living in a house: Too bad. You have a house...get used to it because you aren't going anywhere.
For the government that destroys the value of the cash I earn and hold with inflation: No more handouts for you. I'm getting rid of your paper while it still holds value...and I will no longer finance your corrupt incompetence.
I know I'm going to be wasting a lot of my potential, but that is preferable to having it stolen.
NO DEAL.
The housing crash is just the start. If X/Y don't buy the depreciating homes of the Boomers, who based their retirements on that one asset (and X/Y keeping the entitlements Ponzi Scheme going), then the battle will have been joined.
--
X/Y will wait untill the home comback to the earth to buy. But then again, the BB's homes will have been paid for and all $$ will be profit. They win no matter what.
to all of you who want to go to Australia, Canada etc, please don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
You fucknuts complain about $3 gas. Oh well in Aus and Can it's closer to $5 thanks to taxes.
In some parts of Canada sales tax is 15%. No that is not a typo, 15% sales tax since on top of the provinical sales tax, there is a federal 6% sales tax as well.
Good luck paying 50%+ of your income in taxes as well.
And of course the wonderful governmen run health care where you wait 2 years for elective surgery.
Good luck with all that.
I am 33 and I am sick and tired of this blame boomers garbage. It's not boomers that make $40K a year yet drive a $40K BMW using a 9 year no money down car loan - yes I know someone who did just that, a 9 year freaking car loan.
It's not boomers who spend $500 on an iPod and fill it up with $1000s of songs. Everyone my age falls into this group that I know.
It's not boomers that spend $5 every morning for coffee. Walk into any Starbucks and you'llbe hard pressed to see anyone over 40.
Nor do boomers buy $300 jeans every few weeks and fund it all using 18% credit cards.
Oh sure it's easy to blame someone else for your idiocy. But please, take it somewhere else, I just don't give a fuck about your whining.
A simple request: Would the next person who attacks me by calling me dumb please try and write above the 6th grade level?
Paragraphs, capitalization, cogent arguments, origional thoughts, literary form, something beyond your normal fragmented vitriol.
I am not saying you have to spend all day composing your post. But try and sound like an adult.
Thanks, James
AmazingRuss said...
"What happens when a whole generation gives up on working/filing taxes cause its just not worth it?"
You are the Man! I appreciate and relate to everything you said. Many others do as well..
Keith,
You should do a whole day on how and why we need to stick it to system. What AmazingRuss said reflects what many are feeling, cross generation.
Hey, Keith, the boomers were there when these whimp gen x and gen y babies were coming back home and moving in their old rooms because they coudn't get their shit together in the real world. The boomers were there when the gen x and gen y babies got arrested for dui and we had to go down and bail their silly asses out of the drunk tank. The boomers were there when the gen x and gen y babies, needed some extra money to tie them over for a while when they were down on their luck. The boomers were there when the gen x and gen y babies knocked up their girl friends and we had to pay the cost for the child of this most notorious union. Keith you know and I know the gen x and gen y babies had a terrible time growing up and accepting responsiblity for their actions. Many of them still don't. So the least they can do is to pay their fair share of taxes to support us old boomers who are about to move to Florida, buy a half price condo on South Beach and work on our tans. Its the least they can do and they should quit bitching about it and accept their appointed task. We boomers did our jobs and now we want to relax. Gen x and gen y, do your duty to God and your country. Suck it up and smell the coffee. It is your time now. Belly up to the bar and drink from the cup. We have given you many things. This country is now yours to do with as you wish. Enjoy it. Life goes on.
everyone has heard about the bridge collapse in Minneapolis. Now that bridge collapse represents "baby boomer" economics at it's finest.
Hey, Keith, the boomers were there when these whimp gen x and gen y babies were coming back home and moving in their old rooms because they coudn't get their shit together in the real world. The boomers were there when the gen x and gen y babies got arrested for dui and we had to go down and bail their silly asses out of the drunk tank. The boomers were there when the gen x and gen y babies, needed some extra money to tie them over for a while when they were down on their luck. The boomers were there when the gen x and gen y babies knocked up their girl friends and we had to pay the cost for the child of this most notorious union.
-----------------------------------
Maybe my sarcasm meter is broken today, but...
The "boomers" were'nt there - those jackasses parents were. Big distinction.
If you raised moronic kids who can't cut it in the "real world", then you deal with the consequences of that. If you couldn't be bothered to raise productive citizens, because you were too busy spoiling them - reap what you sow.
I also love how Gen X/Y invented the DUI - that's rich.
Again, my sarcasm meter might be broken; though, if not, I love the irony in "we raised and cared for you because you didn't have a clue, so now you should care for us because we don't have a clue" thinking.
Yawn.. The end is near.. global warming crap.. climate change crap.. deficit crap.. end of america crap... on and on..
To the anonymous poster of August 02, 2007 10:38 PM:
I know, I know, people have be wailing about gloom and doom for a long time, but sometimes it is different. Rome did fall, for example, after many barbarian threats and a few actual invasions.
At the very least, we can be CERTAIN medicare is going to crash and burn in the next 20 years. The powers that be won't say anything other than the costs will be unsustainable - they are afraid to spell it out.
I will: congress will be incapable of repealing medicare benefits, so they will stop indexing them for inflation, then inflate away. The only reason this might not happen is if the USA is defunct for other reasons before the inflation does it's work.
I personally believe a lot of other bad things will be happening, but AT THE LEAST you can count on the dollar losing 75% of it's value in the next 20 years, and a lot of people will not be cushioned very well.
amazingruss, you might consider forcing the government to give you back that $50k/year (for the last 3 anyway):
www.losthorizons.com
AmazingRuss said...
"What happens when a whole generation gives up on working/filing taxes cause its just not worth it?"
Council flats. The dole. England.
amazingruss, you might consider forcing the government to give you back
Interesting idea, but I'll pass. I knew what the deal was when I was earning that money, and I'm not going to try to go back on it. The money is theirs.
They don't get any more from me though...or, rather, a pittance on my interest income, till I'm broke.
Baby Boomers have the money and political power to crush any opposion to their narcissistic rule, but there will be no war or battles with GenX/GenY either, because GenX/GenY does not care about Baby Boomers. Sure Baby Boomers have ruined the world and will continue to do so for at least another decade but GenX/GenY have either dropped out or created an alternative culture to Baby Boomers which will quietly replace them. Baby Boomers are in a panic as they do not control GenX/GenY, if any battle is to happen then it will be due to Baby Boomers attempting to control the younger generations, a battle that despite their power and wealth they will fail in as the younger generations will simply ignore and bypass them.
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