August 30, 2007

Here's the result of letting your spouse (and a realtor on commission) steer you into a toxic mortgage and the worst financial mistake of your life




(Bump)

SUZANNNNNEEEE!!!!!

hat-tip to Tim at
Seattle Bubble for catching this real-life housing horror story - the wife who pressured her husband into paying way to much for a house, and you know how the sad story ends...

So here's the question HP'ers - did women's nesting instinct help cause the housing bubble? (sorry ladies - just asking the question, feel free to respond yourselves...) Or are men equally guilty - takes two to tango (and sign mortgage docs) after all...



136 comments:

buyerwillepb said...

Best post to date, Keith.

Pure Gold.

Doc Love Disciple said...

Men are guilty of being too dumb to see the truth even after lots of pain (which is God telling you you are on the wrong path). Accept your roles as men and lead! Don't grovel or beg for acceptance. Have a backbone and let her know it once in a while. Only stay with someone with flexibility, giving, and integrity who deserves your respect, affection, and romance.

It's better if she calls you daddy than you calling her mommy. Don't be a wimp or a macho boy - the first will never start and the last won't finish in a relationship.

These are the words of the system.

Anonymous said...

Let me put it this way.

Target sex for HGTV?
Target sex for the glossy real estate ads?
Target sex for home decor magazines and retail?
Keeps the house after the divorce?

Anonymous said...

Or are men equally guilty - takes two to tango (and sign mortgage docs) after all...

I've never seen a tango where your dance partner is screaming at you 24/7 and withholding sex until you comply.

Retired_Gen_X_Geek said...

Wow, Keith.

Maybe you should dig up the divorce rate and see if it correlates with the housing panic index.

IFR Pilot said...

Thank you Keith !!! Oh my God, this is the best ending to Suzanne anyone could ever ask for. Painful? Yes. What makes this truly important is that while C21 was staged, this shows the real life consequences.

Arlene said...

C'mon, guys! Both genders can watch HGTV, both can read, both can sign documents, and both can make horrendous mistakes.

How could we females--alone, and dragging helpless men in our wake--influence the Fed and create the mortgage "industry" and its toxic loans?

Even if we wanted to do all that (and could), how did we make one hundred million husbands forget basic economics on closing day?

Surely both sexes can remember that old banking chestnut about how a house should be no more than 2.5 times your annual income. Wherever that went, women didn't hide it.

Wow, you give us way too much credit, though definitely not in a good way.

Anonymous said...

Nest instinct is a nice way to put it. I would call it the "women moneywhore instinct".

Listen, they pay $2k for a handbag and $100 for a lipstick...so we can also call it "the suckers instinct".

Anonymous said...

The mean part of my nature says that nagging, materialistic women and ball free men who felt helpless to either fight or walk are now getting what they deserve. Enjoy the shack (and each other).

Smug Bastard.

smitty said...

I've never seen a tango where your dance partner is screaming at you 24/7 and withholding sex until you comply.

at least here in minnesota, there were signs implying that a man's sex life gets better and the woman becomes happy if you "buy somthing."

thus, i'd say that the couple had deeper intimacy issues that he tried to solve by "buying the house" for her.

keith said...

Women may have been suckered (by HGTV, by realtors, by their friends) but guys were more responsible in the end I'd say

Failed flippers - mainly guys
Corrupt politicians - dudes
Greenspan - looks like a guy to me
Bush - check
Mortgage brokers - guys
Husbands who signed the papers - men
Illegal mexican roofers - guys

Women just added some sweetener to the mix.

Damn that Suzanne.

Happy Homedebtor said...

Someone has to lead - the problem is most men just think they're leading. Establish your roles and stick to them - and if you're both doing your job between the sheets, noone can use withholding booty as a weapon since it's mutually-assured-frustration. From the posts here, I'm guessing most of you have wives or ex-wives that had/are having affairs...here's a hint: it's your fault.

Mark in San Diego said...

Dr. Laura comes through - OWN IT. . .men or women - mistakes were made, let's move on from the blame game to solving the problem - STOP LIVING ABOVE YOUR MEANS!!!!! . . .the entire housing fiasco can be boiled down to those 5 words. . .sell the house, take the loss, rent something you can afford, and save up for a downpayment on something you CAN afford. . .that simple. . .

Anonymous said...

Women/Wives def. played a big role. Men are usually more logical and don't need a bigger house than they can afford. Women on the other hand are full of emotion and normally don't worry about the price tag. All of the husbands that listened to their wives are now the ones that are in trouble.

I'm one of the ones that never listens and did the right thing.

dickless in seattle said...

Now that my dick has fallen off, I rarely make those mistakes in which I am being led around by it.

Now the tables have turned and the piper gets paid.

Anonymous said...

Why are you so hung up on this, Keith? I watch the flip shows and most of the flippers I've seen were men. I personally know a half dozen men who bought overpriced bachelor pad condos hoping to score with women. I'm sure you could find many anecdotes of men steering their wives into bad real estate investments, but you dwell on the opposite situation. Is it because of that stupid commercial?

Women were wrongly blamed during the great depression, too. Wome were blamed during the crisis of the late 70s. I see a pattern.

Are men really so weak and mentally feeble that they crumbled at the slightest argument? A mere "But, Suzanne reasearched it!" was enough to destroy their resolve and ruin their every defense. Or is this just the way modern men act, too weak to make decisions for themselves, but quick to blame others when those decisions result in failure?

devestment said...

The Black Widow instinct.

Female secures male helpless to mating instinct.

Helpless mail provides fertilization and nest.

Female eats male.

Repeat until unable to arouse male or say “I’m sorry”.

supply meet demand said...

Who ultimately wanted the overpriced, oversized, vinyl-sided, particle boards McMansions in exurbia that they could brag about to their friends?

It's like Gucci bags and Prada shoes. Guys are involved from start to finish in their manufacture and sale, but they don't wear them.

Frank@NeverColdCall.com said...

Men are guilty of being too dumb to see the truth even after lots of pain (which is God telling you you are on the wrong path). Accept your roles as men and lead! Don't grovel or beg for acceptance. Have a backbone and let her know it once in a while. Only stay with someone with flexibility, giving, and integrity who deserves your respect, affection, and romance.

Amen to that. It's easy to blame the women but in the end it's the men who gave in. Just like the lefty wackos now want to bail out homedebtors, claiming the mortgage peddlers scammed them, but in the end it was their own failure to read the fine print before signing, and therefore no bailout is due.

Having said all that, it is amazing to me how status-obsessed even the most down-to-earth women are in this country, and for some reason, they think homedebtorship is the ultimate status. Fortunately mine is smart enough to understand that only a complete dumbass would buy a house right now, but with most couples I know, either the wife is always talking about their "ownership" or is trying to pressure the husband to buy despite how stupid of a move it would be right now.

Anonymous said...

"It seemed like a good idea at the time."

Either sex can be responsible for making a mistate. It's easy to appeal to a woman's instincts toward a better house for the family (and by default a better house for her), ...children will be happier (and by default she will be happier)...strengthen "commitment" between her and spouse (and by default relationship will be stronger and happier)... more secure with your housing "investment"...

Just think in circular instead of linear terms and you can figure out the marketing plan that will push the woman in favor of buying and if you do that, in many American families you are 60-70% done on the sales job. For those husbands who couldn't make the compromises necessary to hold it together, or who are in relationships where selling the woman is 90-100% of "mission accomplished" where selling an overpriced house is concerned (translation, she insists upon wearing the jock strap in the family), well, those men are in for a long row to hoe unless they saw the writing on the wall and split beforehand. You have to pick your battles sometimes and unfortunately, sometimes that means voting with your feet and taking a walk.

It is easier to stay out of something than to get out of something.

Mark Twain.

Zoe Rochelle said...

Wow, that is some resentment at women. I have never purchased a handbag for more than $40 and I don't own lipstick. Carmex is my choice of lip protection.

A man who marries a woman who would pay $2000 for a handbag and $100 for lipstick deserves her. He wanted a Barbie Doll he got one. He was fooling himself if he thought she didn't expect the Barbie House as well.

keith said...

I've gotta believe there's an equal (or more) share of housing gambler men who bought too much house, with a financially conservative wife who was against the deal. When I think "failed flipper" I think the guys.

It's bad enough when you make a financial mistake on your own. When you screw someone else in the process, that's gotta suck

Casey Serin comes to mind right about now...

Anonymous said...

"Women may have been suckered (by HGTV, by realtors, by their friends) but guys were more responsible in the end I'd say"

Hey Keith, put this on your list:

Gazillion greedy women who are Realtors - FREAKIN' CHECK.

Anonymous said...

Women were wrongly blamed during the great depression, too.
Never heard that before. Blamed for what?

Wome were blamed during the crisis of the late 70s.
They were attacked for embracing marxist feminism. Warned that it would depress wages (by doubling the labor supply), put stress on families (both parents working outside the home), cause the divorce rate to explode, and leave women (now forced to endure long commutes and office politics) bitter and resentful. Guess what?

Are men really so weak and mentally feeble that they crumbled at the slightest argument?
You really need to get a clue. Women pour the psychological pressure on men round-the-clock when they want to get something. In the past the guy would tame the shrew with the back of his hand. Now illegal. In fact if he even raises his voice to her she can claim spousal abuse. BTW, women will nag men that "No means no". Curiously when men tell women "No" her ears fill with quick dry cement.

A mere "But, Suzanne reasearched it!" was enough to destroy their resolve and ruin their every defense.
Hardly. See above.

Or is this just the way modern men act, too weak to make decisions for themselves, but quick to blame others when those decisions result in failure?
Umm, did you even listen to the phone call? The whole point was that she refused to take any responsibility for pressuring him into doing something irrational and destructive. In fact she admitted she would turn and attack him, using the kids as weapons. She started crying when Dr. Laura forced her to admit to herself how destructive she was acting.

About men in general, yes they are being emasculated by women, the media, the legal system, and society in-general year after year.

Anonymous said...

@ Zoe

"A man who marries a woman who would pay $2000 for a handbag and $100 for lipstick deserves her."

Women buy all that without being married. That's why they are the largest group getting financially screwed not only in this country, but all over the planet. Just read an article about British and South American women deep in debt like never before.

Who buys all those gossip magazines, patronize "What Not To Wear" program, and follow what celebs wear with obsessed devotion? Certainly not men. Who gets ripped-off at MAC or Sephora stores? Certainly not men. Are all of them married? Not at all, especially when divorces and single women rates are highest than never.

Dave Ramsey, baby, Dave Ramsey said...

Ugh. Please don't lump me in with women like these. They make me embarassed to be a woman. I would NEVER throw a brat tantrum with my husband. I respect his judgement and he respects my intuition. If I feel "wrong" about something, I speak up. As far as "nesting instincts", please. Give me a freaking break. I'm on my fifth pregnancy. My nesting instinct means that I want to SAVE money and don't want to jump into major financial decisions. We live well below our means and it is the best feeling in the whole world- very peaceful. We also get the joy of helping other people, although I would probably not help a woman like this one. Natural consequences are the best way for children and immature adults to learn If you rescue adults like this, they never hit bottom and they never learn. My advice to men is not to marry a woman like this one, no matter how pretty she is!

Anonymous said...

"Just like the lefty wackos now want to bail out homedebtors, claiming the mortgage peddlers scammed them, but in the end it was their own failure to read the fine print before signing, and therefore no bailout is due."

Meanwhile, Bernanke HAS ALREADY bailed out REPUBLICAN BANKERS with billions of taxpayer money.

IF YOU HAVE ANY CAPACITY TO APPLY LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE, YOU CAN SEE THAT REPUBLICANS ARE MORE SOCIALISTS THAN DEMOCRATS. Billions of taxpayer money to bail out Republican gamblers on Wall Street....and they are not done yet. Watch out for another phony terror event created only to suck more money from morons. You Republican sheeple, are geniuses!

Thanks for destroying the planet and the future of your own kids and grandkids.

Anonymous said...

Keith,

Sounds like you're equivocating (trying to ride the fence). Don't want half (or whatever percentage) of your audience storming off in a huff? lol

keith said...

56% of realtors on commission are female - not too skewed. 54% of brokers (big boss men) are men


Gender

The real estate industry is more female-dominated than ever. In 1978, only 21 percent of brokers were women, and by 2001 the percentage grew to 46 percent. Fifty-six percent of Realtors are female, up two percentage points from the 1996 Member Profile. While 54 percent of brokers are male, that percentage is significantly lower than in the late 1970s.


http://realtytimes.com/rtapages/20010614_members.htm

Anonymous said...

We live well below our means and it is the best feeling in the whole world- very peaceful.

Yep. Best feeling in the world. Being able to sleep well at night.

Shakster said...

Anonymous said...
The mean part of my nature says that nagging, materialistic women and ball free men who felt helpless to either fight or walk are now getting what they deserve. Enjoy the shack (and each other).

Smug Bastard.
----------------------------------
Hahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Eating my Smug Bastard(tm)Popcorn.
Oh,and another thing-He could have married a blonde/drunk crankskank with bananna woofers who failed the realtard exam.

Shakster said...

dickless in seattle said...
Now that my dick has fallen off, I rarely make those mistakes in which I am being led around by it.

Now the tables have turned and the piper gets paid.
----------------------------------
Popcorn all over the shak,Hahahahhahahhahhahahhahahahhhahahahhahahhahhahahhahaaaa!!!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:11 post about modern life being an emasulating cycle for many men is pretty spot-on. The pressure and tone is definitely there and unfortunately for many men, they become ensnared.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, another woman here who doesn't own any designer items, buys my lipstick at Target, and is renting (with my fiance) till we can SAVE a down payment for a house that's affordable based on our income. In the meantime, I've been working full-time AND freelancing for the past year in order to pay off my student loan and car debt several years ahead of schedule. Guess how I celebrated when I finally paid off both those debts last month? (Hint: it does not involve Gucci.) I upped my monthly contribution to my 401(k) from 10% to 15%.

Four years ago, when my family (male and female members alike, incidentally) were all strongly pressuring me to buy a house out of my means (they were all caught up in the "OMG, SoCal housing values will go up and up and UP FOREVER!!!" hysteria), I resisted. And I may just be a woman who majored in English in college, but my own gut instinct and basic logic told me that I couldn't possibly afford a half a million dollar home on a book editor's income, and that there is nothing economically sound about a housing market in which prices were so severely out of whack with incomes.

I never read a single housing blog until a few months ago -- hell, I didn't know an ARM from a LEG. But I KNEW that housing was in a bubble at least 5 years ago.

So yeah, go ahead and blame women for this all you want, if that makes your dicks hard. Greenspan's wife was the one keeping rates down, too, right?

Anonymous said...

A guy would wear rags, live in a friggin' cave, and throw his garbage on the floor - as long as there was a place to plug in his overpriced 60" big-screen TV and a place to park his overpriced 10mpg SUV and his overpriced powerboat.

Anonymous said...

"I've gotta believe there's an equal (or more) share of housing gambler men who bought too much house"

well, there is the "nesting instinct" which I think is female and the the flipping, which is something else.

Anonymous said...

Guys, love is an illusion.

Ok, now that we're not twenty five anymore (at least most of us here), I can let it out.

What you need to do is embrace the perpetual life of a player who only settles for a fiscally prudent lady, if and ONLY if, she comes your way in a psychologically balanced manner. Otherwise, stay single, attend conventions at dexterhorn.com, invest wisely, join or start some athletic associations, and have fun.

Anonymous said...

Just to comment that the women in the video sure looks like a selfish money whore, funny C21 will use that material for commercial. Commecials, you know, almost always portrait women being the smart and nice ones.

Anonymous said...

ohh Keith you are so naive and loving..women are experts for manipulating men vs. sex and all for $$$$. After all theyy have been trained for it from day one..ps: am a woman to.

Anonymous said...

"A guy would wear rags, live in a friggin' cave, and throw his garbage on the floor - as long as there was a place to plug in his overpriced 60" big-screen TV and a place to park his overpriced 10mpg SUV and his overpriced powerboat."

Hold on!

Check on the rags, cave, trash on floor, however...

plug-in for HDTV or if frugal, (surround sound goggles/headpiece with PC), Truck a/o Muscle car, plus powerboat (or canoe if a naturalist)

You see, guys are more adaptable, depending upon resources.

Anonymous said...

Usually, with few exceptions, it is the woman who drives this. Some guys get an ego boost that they feel successful and like a good provider (which is fine if your not in crippling debt).

Both men and women bought into the greed. I'm sickened by the attitude that "Oh we are so freakin' smart. We'll buy a house, live in it,maybe do some cheap fix-ups, and then SOMEONE ELSE will richly reward us for our incredible cleverness." Well FOOLS we just ran out of greater fools and your stuck holding the bag(house).

In Utah they have morphed the good motivation of having a cozy home into a materialistic McMansion mania with just the right fixtures, furniture, and knick knacks. And a status car (Mercedes,BMW,RangeRover,Escalade,
etc.)to go in the driveway.
Many people in Utah are swimming in debt. It's unraveling as we speak.

Flagg707 said...

Dude signed the papers. There will be much, much more of this.

It's one thing to break down under whining for a dress or even that snazzy minivan and quite another to buy into a market that you know is destined for disaster (and if I heard that hooker correctly, hubby told her it was a bad idea). He can blame her all he wants, but he put his name, credit and financial future on the line.

Relationships like this are in for a hard time as the Depression settles in.

Anonymous said...

Dude at my work had a home magazine on his desk. He knows prices are tanking but his reasoning is he is expecting a child and 'needs the extra room' his apt. lacks. I asked him to be honest and he broke down and said his wife is the driving force behind going into his financial misery and now this. I said DTB (dump that bitch)

The Tim said...

Hey everybody. Sorry about the streaming on Keith's post crapping out. I sent him new code to correct the problem. Until then, just click through to my site, where you can still hear it no problem.

Anonymous said...

2k for a handbag is better than 50k for a hummer or 120k for a pimped out escalade. I'm guessing those handbags will have better resale value, too. Never heard of $100 lipstick.

Anonymous said...

About a month ago, a female coworker was freaking out because she was the last of all her friends to have a house. She kept complaining to the other fat chicks "I want a house, I want a house, I want a house". She and her husband have been house hunting every weekend, even heard her say some sellers are being greedy. Well, they just bought a house here in the bubble DC metro area. Crazy.

She even said they don't plan on living there more than five years. I really do think this same situation happens a lot.

The Project Manager said...

I think it's a cop-out to blame women -- even if you think we all have some "nesting gene", that would imply buy and hold. I doubt the majority of flippers were women, and they're the ones who did a substantial amount of the run-up damage.

In fact, women might have had a bit of a mitigating effect on that -- "Honey, do we really have to move AGAIN??"

-PM

Anonymous said...

ohh Keith you are so naive and loving..women are experts for manipulating men vs. sex and all for $$$$. After all theyy have been trained for it from day one..ps: am a woman to.

Keith,

Here's your reading assignment this week:

The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar

We expect a 500 word book report. lol

Anonymous said...

The male of the species is completely averse to nesting. Left to their own devices, these creatures will live out an entirely nomadic lifestyle.

Single males often wander the hills and roads, pushing their barbeque grills and plasma tv sets along until they find a nice open field to rest for a brief time.

Ocasionally, one might stray off and rent a cheap apartment in a bad part of town, but the very site of a McMansion or even a small condo would send him fleeing the area in a confused state of panic and anger.

Men simply have no desire for a safe and secure living arrangement until they bcome acquainted with the sex organs of a desirable female. Succumbing to the woman's powerful wiles, they will now mindlessly abide with her singularly overwhelming quest to buy a tract home in suburbia and fill it with expensive handbags and lipstick.

Anonymous said...

"Women were wrongly blamed during the great depression, too.
Never heard that before. Blamed for what?"

Women were blamed for taking jobs from more deserving men, just as you went on to do in you ignorant rant.

The fact is that women were forced to enter the work force in large numbers because of already declining wages. Working women were not the cause of the decline, but a symptom of it. The same thing is happening right now. Median incomes continue to fall, while household income goes up. This is because even more women are being forced into the workplace.

Women are only a threat to men's positions if society accepts the notion that women's pay shoulld be less for the same job. Oh. wait, that's exactly what corporations managed to do under the guise of feminism being a horrible threat to men and families.

LauraVella said...

These days, it's the woman who ultimately decides if a couple decide to purchase a home.

I know some of the women posters here will hate me, but here goes-Most women want a house. That's o.k, because I want one too. The difference is, most women want it at any cost. They really dont care what the price is, they only look at the payment part and then count on getting a huge loan to cover the rest. Where is the 20% down?? If it's not there, then something is wrong with house prices. Figure it out....

And...too many husbands give in to unrational demands.

Most Families will never get a head when the wife feels it's necessary to always give in to advertising and properganda to fulfill some internal need.

All right then...I'm jumping off my soapbox before the mob pushes me off!!

Anonymous said...

everyone knows that most women are illogical when it comes to finances. most of the people with crushing credit card debt are women. how often do you see men with 50 pairs of shoes? how many men have closets full of clothes they have never worn? how many men order a $100 meal and take two bites?

i agree that more flippers were men. they got in the game to make fast money putting up little if any of their own capital. the bidding wars for homes were instigated by women who wanted their dream home. they would fall in love with a home and were willing to pay any price for it. men fall in love with cars, not houses. at least it's a lot cheaper

madmonkey said...

Good to see you back Keith. I've got to say you have been pretty much right about everything.

Anonymous said...

They should bring back debtors prisons. That would make people think twice before borrowing more than they can repay. The only exceptions would be for illness or other such emergency. The loans officers who approve such loans will receive a flogging.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm ... a lot of bitter females here unwilling to accept that they frequently apply huge amounts of pressures on males to buy things.

I guess the malls are all full of guys, right ladies?!

nick00name said...

There is a nice book "Two income trap" by Elizabeth Warren (however, very pessimistic, don't read it if you don't want to spoil your mood). She studied families in bankrupcy and found that in most of the families which are in trouble, the party responsible for the finances were women, while in prosperous families it was men who were in charge. Warren attributes it to women taking the leadership over from men at the time of a financial crisis. But to me it seems that the financial crisis occured as a consequence of women already being in charge (sorry for sounding as a male chauvinist pig). Any opinions?

Most of the guys I know (mostly Silicon Valley nerds), if it were not for women, would live in gangster-infested areas and drive 15-year-old Honda Civics. We guys buy fancy sports cars probably only because girls like them. There should be some compromise between being a miser and spending like there is no tomorrow.

Women can drive their male partners into buying more expensive and bigger cars (SUVs) and houses by questions like: "What is more important to you, money or safety and education of our children?" How do you answer that?

Mike F said...

"Don't look at me, doc, you're the one showing me all the dirty pictures."

Seriously, though, the phone call is sad. She's a bit immature, he's regretting the decision, blames her and runs off. Neither of them have done the most constructive thing they could.

But all the stuff coming out in the comments in response to this one, that's all in YOUR heads. Trying to understand Women, or Men, is futile. If you're very very lucky in this world, you might get to understand ONE person really well. Hopefully, that'll be your spouse. If you can't communicate honestly and work like a team, you're screwed.

My wife is in charge of weekly budgeting, I'm in charge of investing. It works for us. We trust each other and keep each other updated. It's not complicated, and we're not that special.

But we are adults, and we behave that way.

nick00name said...

There is a nice book "Two income trap" by Elizabeth Warren (however, very pessimistic, don't read it if you don't want to spoil your mood). She studied families in bankrupcy and found that in most of the families which are in trouble, the party responsible for the finances were women, while in prosperous families it was men who were in charge. Warren attributes it to women taking the leadership over from men at the time of a financial crisis. But to me it seems that the financial crisis occured as a consequence of women already being in charge (sorry for sounding as a male chauvinist pig). Any opinions?

Most of the guys I know (mostly Silicon Valley nerds), if it were not for women, would live in gangster-infested areas and drive 15-year-old Honda Civics. We guys buy fancy sports cars probably only because girls like them. There should be some compromise between being a miser and spending like there is no tomorrow.

Women can drive their male partners into buying more expensive and bigger cars (SUVs) and houses by questions like: "What is more important to you, money or safety and education of our children?" How do you answer that?

Anonymous said...

Social climbing wives who wanted to do the Jonses competitive "my house is better than yours" rap were the culprits. Being of the female gender, I saw pre school moms beat down their husbands psychologically until they relented and purchased the house they could not afford at INSANE prices at the top of the market. They looked at me like a martian when I asked them if they have done any research on where the market is headed.

What rational hard working man wants to live in a resentful hell zone if he doesn't give in to the spoiled irrational "white picket fence demands" of his wife? I recall one couple where the wife henpecked her poor husband until he gave in --they bought an 1,000 sq ft Bungalow for
$740 at the tippy Top of the market Spring 05 on the Westside of LA in a marginal neighborhood.
he was dead set against it until the psychologically crushing duo (his wife and some aging Suzanne wannabe realtor with a Southern drawl) got their mits on him. He finally relented like the poor sap in the commercial. I watched it happen!

I tried to reason with this woman about how disconnected the fundamentals were from the real estate market. I have a brother who was a Wall Street financial analyst who educated me and FORBID us from buying in 04-05--Thank God.
This woman kept saying NAR dribble like, 'I am afraid we will never get in the market" Then when she signed the paper she called and said, "Did we just make the biggest mistake of our lives."

My family resides in an apt and I do understand the female nesting urge a thousand fold but making enormous financial decisions (and pummeling your spouse) based on emotions has severe consequences! From my observation, generally Men do seem to be better at stepping back and making logical decisions (not based on emotions) when it comes to purchasing the "family home". I consider myself a feminist but that has been my observation.

Before the market turned............
I'll confess, I was one of the women who complained about not having a home and a backyard for the kids but when my sweet husband said, 'just give me the green light when you want to buy." I told him I was just venting and we need to wait until the prices decline. I used to go on this blog when I felt down and then I started to become educated about the market and did research every night.

I was better able to respond to people who were critical of us not owning a home.

Notice how the woman on the Dr. Laura show did not seem particularly interested in getting them out of their financial mess and SELLING the house.
she also wrote down Dr Laura's comments as if she did not have a brain!

Learned helplessness is a sickening quality.

Edgar said...

Rags, check. Cave, check. Truck paid for. Ten year old television. Hey, at least I have a place to throw my trash. Picking up trash = woman's work.

Anonymous said...

The ad is revealing, but an old hat. It has been discussed forward and backward on many housing blogs, so much that Suzanne has become a household name (Suzanne made me do it.)

Anonymous said...

Crap like this is the reason I'm not planning on marrying anytime soon.

While there are good and sane women out there, as luck would have it, I'd probably end up with one who turns out to be an abusive and materialistic broad once the dotted line is signed and pre-marital dog and pony show ends.

What's really sad is that the Suzanne commercial probably played itself out too many times to count in the real life.

area 51 said...

Dude got "Suzanned"!!!!

That was awesome....

OWN IT! OWN IT!

SAY IT!:
I was Bratty
I was Selfish
I was WRONG.....

HAHAHAHAH

And hat tip to the Doc Love apprentice. Doc Love is THE man.....

wine country dude said...

@ Anon 10:37

You make your comments anonymously. This is a surprise.

"....go ahead and blame women for this all you want, if that makes your dicks hard".

Everytime I think the guys on this blog go over the top, there's some sneering, contemptuous woman--who invariably references male anatomy--who makes me realize the distaff side's propensity for stupidity. Or maybe it's just this anonymous, distaff author.

Anonymous said...

buhahahahahaha:

"I'm not a real estate bum," the president of Executive Preferred Properties announces. "I wear diamonds, Rolexes and necklaces. I'm a classy Realtor.""

http://tinyurl.com/ytez3d

Anonymous said...

Women are 100% at fault for this one. Most men usually do not have to have more house than they can afford to show off. Face it, everyone has a bit of vanity in them. With men, it is usually a car, boat, workshop, etc....that they waste money on to have the best and feel superior to other men while showing off to women.

Women are the ones that influence what kind of house will be bought more than men because they are the targets of pretty much every home and garden show, magazine, and lifestyle. Women are also obsessed with painting walls and I find this very disturbing.

Anyway, men will give in and do things against their will because the wife will nag them to death and they will never hear the end of it. If it means working an extra 20 hours a week he will do it so when he is home on the weekend she is not nagging him and picking a fight when he watching sports on TV. BTW, women pick most of the fights in homes.

You take any man (rich poor black white etc....) and what they want in a home is a place they will be comfortable living and do not have to do much maintenance on. Women want a place that will make their girlfriends green with envy, something that looks like the pictures in the magazines or on TV, and to fit in and be like everyone else so they LOVE McMansions (built with illegal labor and sold at insanely inflated prices spinning wealth and value out of thin air).

Bottom line ----> FAULT OF WOMEN!

Anonymous said...

the federal reserve kept the interest rate too low because the CPI doesn't accurately measure inflation. the fed is ultimately at fault (men) for creating too much worthless money, greedy wall st (mostly men), and the sheeple who have been taught not to question what they sign or the people who sell to them (men & women) are all at fault. NO bailouts. stop the fed printing press (i.e., injections).

caveat emptor

Anonymous said...

"So yeah, go ahead and blame women for this all you want, if that makes your dicks hard."

I feal bad for your fiance, especially since he is living with a witch like you.

Anonymous said...

Wow.

That's quite a bit of vitriol directed at women.

I particularly like the posts that start "Every one knows that women . . ." or "Women are 100% responsible . . ."

Really?

In my neck of the woods (DC) LOTS of our single guys friends put 0-5% down to get that condo before they were "priced out forever." One of our guys friends (I'm the female half of a married couple) hounded us for years to get an IO loan and buy b/c "real estate only goes up!" We're missing the opportunity of a lifetime! people told us. Lots of guys I know thought they were real financial/RE geniuses.

Women do have a nesting instinct that can make them irrational. But let's not get carried away with the generalizations.

I am a chick, (the kind who drinks lattes) and I own no Gucci or $100 lipsticks, or even a car for that matter! I live with hubby and baby in a rental apt. and am watching the bubble from the sidelines like other intelligent men and women.

If all men were happy to live in hovels and drive old Hondas, who are these yahoos I see flashing their expensive watches, driving SUVs and Hummers and buying home entertainment systems that equal a state-college tuition?

Isn't it obvious that fiscal responsibility is just not an American value anymore?

Anonymous said...

I have to say that the men in this thread blaming women sound like children. I'd guess their average mental age to be 12.

Oh, and the last time I went to the mall it was full of men... standing in a long line for hours to buy overpriced iphones. But I suppose that's all women's fault, too. I attribute this mass male victimized mentality to our society's overindulgence of boys.

Gigi said...

I think the notion that men don't care about what kind of home they live in is funny. I've been at countless parties and dinners where the men I encountered did nothing but brag about their real estate.

Men love the idea of a big house with lots of electronics, a three car garage for the boat and SUVs, a big yard for the dogs and a workshop full of tools which will go unused. Women might be the target audience for home decor mags, but men are the target for home theaters, backyard kitchens and and game rooms.

I've seen MTv Cribs and all of the men on that show are definitely into nesting in expensive and often elaborate homes. How about pimp my ride? There is nothing logical about a souped up, pimped out car that costs more than most people's homes.

Either there are a lot of trolls around here are you guys are in serious denial about your gender's capacity for stupidity.

Anonymous said...

"In my neck of the woods (DC) LOTS of our single guys friends put 0-5% down to get that condo."

In Utah they were running a radio ad telling guys that if they got a loan they would be "irrestible" to women. They said you should buy a condo, new car and boat. I haven't heard that ad lately since the market is just going over the cliff here as I type.

Basically, they were saying you're a loser and will get no women unless you're in debt up to your eyeballs. Advertisers do study the market and psychology so perhaps men are ultimately doing many things TRYING to get women. Is the guy in the expensive car really enjoying the car or just pathetically seeking female attention. Ironically, I get tons of attention on my road bicycle and I'm just riding, not looking for it.

There are women everywhere, just be yourself. So how many guys are ultimately motivated by trying to get women? I love women who have a clue but any guy who turns himself inside out to get one is an idiot.

BTW- Happily married and lotsa girlfriends prior.

keith said...

Great point about MTV Cribs - that's the guy version of HGTV's home shows

Guys - admit it - it's not nesting, it's showing off like cocky roosters.

(but why do guys show off like cocky roosters - you got it - women!)

Anonymous said...

My wife and I have a good relationship with few problems. I'm not a controlling personality and hardly ever even put forward an opinion. Most things just don't matter very much to me. I agreed to move across the country and took another job for her. No big deal. But my wife wanted to buy. She kicked, screamed, begged, cried, pleaded, yelled, threw things, pointed to her friends, pointed to the tv, drove by homes. I refused to budge. The car was pulled over on the side of the road so she could tell me how deceitful I was, how I had lied about wanting a family, etc. etc. I stated my case, and refused to budge. About a week ago, with the crash all over the news, my wife turned to me and said, "thank you for not giving in." I love her too much to allow even her to convince me to disregard my husbanding responsibilities.

L'Emmerdeur said...

I thought HPers were supposed to take responsibility for their actions?

Hint: it isn't Christians or Jews or Hindus or Zoroastrians. It isn't men or women. It isn't straights or gays or bi's or pre-ops.

You want Venus and Mars? Which is worse, the stereotype you guys are throwing around about the shrill shrew bullying her man into buying a house, or the pussy who lets her behave that way without dumping her sorry ass and leaving her?

Oh, and it's FINE when a dude buys a plasam so he and his beer-swilling bloated idiot buddies can watch "the game" with HELOC funds, but God FORBID a woman buy a pair of $800 Manolos with cash from the same HELOC.

You are all morons, the dudes with the plasmas, the chicks with the heels, and the retards who think one is more to blame than the other.

This shit is on all our heads.

- proud Manhattan renter for 15 years

Anonymous said...

Shakster said: Eating my Smug Bastard(tm)Popcorn.
Oh,and another thing-He could have married a blonde/drunk crankskank with bananna woofers who failed the realtard exam

Neil gets the credit for the "implosion popcorn" - I just supply some "sprinkle on seasoning" that makes it more tasty. The entertainment derrived from viewing on this clusterfuck gets better every day. From an entertainment standpoint, which is better, American Idol or American Housing Finance Implosion Clusterfuck? Which way to the Bee Gees music and disco dancing, I can feel the stagflation coming.

Smug Bastard

Mammoth said...

The great posts on this thread seem to convey the message that anybody trying to sell their house needs to market it to the woman.

Have a woman choose the paint colors, and let her choose the ‘staging’ furniture and ‘doll-up’ the house however she sees fit.

Tidy up the exterior, buy some pots of blooming flowers, and plant them in the front beds. Do whatever it takes to make her feel like this is a HOME, not just a HOUSE.

Oh, and putting a workbench in the garage and nailing some pegboard to the wall there may help win the guy over as well – “wow, a place to put all my tools.” LOL!

- Mammoth

LauraV said...

"Women were blamed for taking jobs from more deserving men, just as you went on to do in you ignorant rant".


If anything, during the Great Depression, jobs were scarce, and women were asked not work because the few good jobs that were available should go to men, so they could provide for their families, as head of their household.

There is a lot to say about how our society was back then.

Mr Lizard said...

Yes Yes Yes.

A woman sees some people she knows do well in the RE market, and then takes that one data point and elevates it to the center of the universe... right next to her. Once it's reached the center of the universe it becomes an unasailable concept equated with her entire self worth. To fight it with reason and logic is akin to the Bay of Pigs.

RedShoes said...

Nick00 said:"Women can drive their male partners into buying more expensive and bigger cars (SUVs) and houses by questions like: "What is more important to you, money or safety and education of our children?" How do you answer that"?


Exactly the point.

True story: A good friend of mine convinced her husband its about the schools...now that they overextended themselves to her wish for a house in Lafayette, CA. But guess what? She's now concerned everyone else around them, in the stores, in her daughters pre-school is better off than they are...

A true disaster in the making.

Anonymous said...

Women were blamed for taking jobs from more deserving men, just as you went on to do in you ignorant rant.

Do you have a citation? It's not that I don't disbelieve you I just never heard that in relation to the Great Depression. Heard it about after WWII with men coming back from the war and needed the factory jobs the women had. But not about the 1930s.

The fact is that women were forced to enter the work force in large numbers because of already declining wages. Working women were not the cause of the decline, but a symptom of it. The same thing is happening right now. Median incomes continue to fall, while household income goes up. This is because even more women are being forced into the workplace.

I think you have your facts exactly backwards. When the U.S. went off the gold standard in 1971 and the Federal Reserve cranked up the printing press to pay for the Vietnam War and Johnson's Great Society currency inflation exploded. Under normal circumstances firms would have had to raise wages, but social engineering (feminism) flooded the labor market with a new supply of workers. Women! Firms could keep wages same or growing less than inflation. Why? If a man didn't want a service-sector job a woman could take his place. It's no accident that real wages started stagnating with the advent of feminism (i.e., women flooding the workforce in the 1970s and depressing wages and the standard of living for everyone).

Wages continue to fall because the labor supply is growing. Simple economics. Supply and demand. How is the labor supply growing? Open immigration from Mexico and points south. Why pay an American male trying to support his family 10 dollars an hour to swing a hammer when a Mexican will do it for 5 dollars on hour. Ditto for information fields. H-1B Visas and offshoring moving tech jobs to India, China, and Eastern Europe. American programmers and system analysts now have to compete with a labor pool number hundreds of millions. Construction and IT firms have been lobbying Congress with big $$$ to remove all restrictions on their labor supply. All these actions increase the labor pool and depress wages.

Restricting the labor supply would cause wages to increase.

Women are only a threat to men's positions if society accepts the notion that women's pay shoulld be less for the same job. Oh. wait, that's exactly what corporations managed to do under the guise of feminism being a horrible threat to men and families.

Surprised you still believe the women only make 70 cents on the dollar (or whatever the LIE is) that men make fairy tale. Firms are rational. Firms want to make a profit. If they could hire a worker at a 30% discount to do the same job they would only hire women and not hire men. FACT is the 70 cents on the dollar bullsh*t is an aggregation of full time worker males compared to women who work full-time, part-time, take maternity leave, quit the workforce to raise a family. In other words, your contention is bullsh*t. If women were being discriminated against in a particular job wage-wise they would be screaming about it from every rooftop. And they would SUE the firms. They aren't because it's not happening, when you look at each individual case and control for experience, education, and availablity for work full time.

Get a clue! Please!

Anonymous said...

Great point about MTV Cribs - that's the guy version of HGTV's home shows

Please. Cribs is a celebrity voyeurism show. HGTV, Flip This House, etc... are for the masses.

Think I'm full of it? Here's the show summary from the MTV site:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Tired of living at home with mom and dad? Sick of staring at blank walls and hand-me-down furniture in your rundown apartment? Well, we've got just the solution for you -- MTV Cribs is back! And it's still your one-stop shop for living vicariously through others! In fact, it's the only place where you can get a tour of your favorite celeb's pad and be jealous of everything they have!

Yes, get ready for another sizzling season of boom-boom bedrooms, tricked out rides and refrigerator raids. Plasma TV screens? Check. Over-the-top bathrooms? Check. Huge hot tubs? Check. This season of Cribs has it all, so you can spend your time daydreaming about how the other half lives.

This season, no celebrity is safe from our prying eyes, as we'll be snooping on everyone from pro football player Roy Williams to recording artists Joss Stone and DJ Khaled! You'll get to learn everything you ever wanted to know about your favorite celebrities, and maybe a few things you wish you never knew.

Ever wondered what's inside R&B singer Joe's crib? Well, he's got a super sexy bathroom, a private recording studio and a Ferrari that matches his sneakers! How about what's lurking inside producer Dallas Austin's home? His bedroom has a 360-degree view of his gorgeous neighborhood and he has a "mermaid" swimming in a tank behind his poolside bar! And what's hiding behind Kim Kardashian's walls? There's a stripper pole that she uses for exercise (yeah, right!) and a customized pink Range Rover!

But that's not all we have in store for you on this season of Cribs! You'll also get to check out Lumidee's crazy lip gloss collection, Don Omar's personal barbershop and boxer Floyd Mayweather's closet, which has aisles like a supermarket. And, possibly falling into the too-much-information department, Willa Ford shows off her color-coordinated bra collection, Yellowcard's Ryan Key delves into his Marilyn Monroe obsession and Bow Wow shows off his shower built for seven -- ladies, prepare to line up!

Yes indeed, Cribs lets you get an up close and personal look inside the private lives of your favorite celebrities -- and they won't even call the cops! Nope, because you've got an all-access pass inside their homes, just like you always dreamed about! Now if only that crusty old couch in your living room would take the hint and transform itself into a tricked out media room lounge chair. Then life would truly be perfect, now wouldn't it?

http://www.mtv.com/ontv/dyn/cribs/series.jhtml#bio

Anonymous said...

First of all... a lot of guys really want a Muscle car.

The whole SUV, suburban sprawl with HDTV plus 3 car garage, etc motif arose from the fact that American muscle was too macho and backward looking for a modern, feminized man. If there weren't female companions, a guy would live in a tiny place with his jacked up '72 Ford Mustang. That's a pretty frugal person, given the fact that a lot of the car enhancements were probably done by the owner himself. What's happened is that the diffusion of males masculinity, in the 90s/00s, has led the typical guy to hybridize his desires into a sort of imperial tapestry of wants/needs which mimics that of his female companion.

LauraVella said...

Anon said:" I stated my case, and refused to budge. About a week ago, with the crash all over the news, my wife turned to me and said, "thank you for not giving in." I love her too much to allow even her to convince me to disregard my husbanding responsibilities".


Bravo.

Anonymous said...

"There are women everywhere, just be yourself. So how many guys are ultimately motivated by trying to get women? I love women who have a clue but any guy who turns himself inside out to get one is an idiot."

Ever heard of poisoning the well?

That's what women do when they gossip about men behind their backs. That's why it's difficult for a decent guy to meet someone of value because they're being typecasted w/o knowing it.

I suspect that a large part of my dad's alcoholism grew out of this phenomena because unlike me, he couldn't handle the tag teaming which went on when my mother, sister, and their "friends" would put him down in various situations. I simply dump the b*tch when I'm being doubled up.

Dr Laura said...

I have to say that the men in this thread blaming women sound like children. I'd guess their average mental age to be 12.

Lesbian or child molester, you choose

americanwomensuck said...

This nest-building and over the top conspicuous consumption disaster will be catalyst of many divorces. The man will be blamed for the families financial ruin taken into court and @zz raped. The women will then take the children and look for a more successful male to provide the house that she thinks she deserves. She will deserve it all because she has a v@gina. This very dynamic was part of what fed into making poor decisions in house buying and it will continue on forever. You can choose to not take part in this foolishness.
Don’t marry these divorced women.. Let them enjoy their new found “freedom”. Don’t be a sucker and support this ongoing travesty by giving them any hope of marriage after dumping the father of her children. Men, wake up! It will always be your fault. Always. Don’t marry a victim because victim-hood has become the means to entrap and bleed out those who are gullible. Tell you sons and male friends and give them a heads-up and perhaps save someone a lot of misery.

Anonymous said...

"First of all... a lot of guys really want a Muscle car."


I AGREE 100%! Men have become completely lost and do not know what it is to be a man in the past 2 decades. Being a man is not about belching, scratching you rear end, and being a pig towards women but it is about knowing who you are and what you want.

Although their instict tells men that buying a McMansion out in the boonies and being in debt up to where the last few bucks have to be budgeted is a bad iead they do it anyway. Lack of this self control and being able to tell both himself and his wife a big "NO" is the major failure of the males of the human species in the recent past. Men also fight nature and their affinity towards ceartain things to be PC and fit in. As you said the gender rolls becoming one and hybridizing is real and it is here. This will be the undoing of our society in the long haul because we will all become a nation of dummies concurring on eveyrthing so we can always stay happy, not have arguments, and the weather will always be sunny with low humidity.

Joon said...

This is the best thing I've heard/seen in a LONG TIME.

I love it!!! SUZANNE!!!!

Anonymous said...

Yeah, and men caused the war in Iraq. Get over it! I'm a female renter who was sorely tempted to buy but didn't because I couldn't afford it. I know far more men who bought houses (usually to flip) than women. You GET PAID MORE FOR THE SAME JOB, REMEMBER? Maybe if I got the same pay as a man for my job, I would've gotten stupid and bought a house, too.

Budvar said...

"Women were blamed for taking jobs from more deserving men, just as you went on to do in you ignorant rant."

My word Lois, wearing our ovaries on the outside a bit today aren't we?

Either that or good old fashioned penis envy once again showing through.

Anonymous said...

Housing down 3.2%

Some Bubble Dopes!

Uhhhhh? Wait a minute. No no, my realtor is right. Must not hear truth.......real estate always goes up. Lawrence yuuuunnnn..cannot resist

Your all dopes

Anonymous said...

It certainly isn't women's fault.

Yes, the female half of the human species does seem to have more of the "nesting instinct", but that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

My own wife's nesting instinct has never gotten us in trouble. Maybe it could have if we hadn't been careful about figuring out our dwelling arrangements. There is such a thing as using your reason more than your emotions and instincts, which you should with important decisions.

Anonymous said...

"You GET PAID MORE FOR THE SAME JOB, REMEMBER? Maybe if I got the same pay as a man for my job"

Hmm... my title is Senior Engineer II, my job function has a salary range, $95K-$105K per annum. All the females, who're also dubbed Senior Engineer II, get that exact salary tier, otherwise, they'd be Senior Engineer I ($85K-$95K). So is it the actual job that women can't get? Or does your company actively maintain a two tier pay system for the exact same job?

I suspect that it's either the former or some maternity leave excuse for not showing up 11.5 months per year.

Anonymous said...

More fuel for the fires that perpetually burn within the loins of the members of the St. Clair County He-Man Woman Haters Club

What's the secret handshake?

HAHHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

k.w. - southern ca. said...

Well, regardless of a woman's nesting instinct, people shouldn't be taking on a house mortgage if they can't afford the payments.

What's the problem with renting for awhile first?

Happily Renting said...

L'Emmerdeur said...
I thought HPers were supposed to take responsibility for their actions?

Hint: it isn't Christians or Jews or Hindus or Zoroastrians. It isn't men or women. It isn't straights or gays or bi's or pre-ops.

.....This shit is on all our heads.

- proud Manhattan renter for 15 years

-------------------

Amen, L'Emmerdeur.

I live in SoCal, ground zero for the honeys with the $2,000 handbags and the big boys with the $65k Hummer and a $500 a month golf club membership. I drive a 5 year old Saturn (paid off) and my fiance and I have rented for the past 2 years because we simply can't afford to buy and live comfortably.

(We make a combined income of $130k a year and, while we could afford to buy, it would be an uncomfortable stretch for us. Not to mention downright stupid with the market as it is.)

An associate of mine (whom I formerly considered a friend) and I were discussing my upcoming wedding. She made no secret of the fact that she and her husband spent about $125k on their wedding(s). Yes, that's plural. Multiple weddings.

HE insisted on the $10k wedding invitations. HE insisted that they have one large wedding in Hawaii and another in SoCal a few weeks later. HE insisted on the orchids that had to be flown in from Thailand, etc.

Now, don't get me wrong. This woman, too, insisted that she "needed" a $15k wedding gown, a $45k engagement ring, etc.

What many of you HPers seem to be missing is that LIKE ATTRACTS LIKE. I am currently planning a wedding, and if my fiance were to act like hers did (or if I'd have let it be known that there was a minimum dollar amount I expected him to spend on my engagement ring), we'd have each run the other way.

The more intelligent approach to this issue would be to examine the societal issues that made this bubble possible instead of pinning it on one gender, race or socioeconomic group.

I've seen HP blame illegal immigrants (and lord knows that anyone with a hispanic surname MUST be illegal) for the housing bubble, too. Again, while illegals definitely contributed the problem, it weakens your argument, to say the least, when you paint these issues with such broad strokes.

No, HPers, women were not solely responsible for this bubble. Nor were all illegal immigrants, all women named Suzanne, etc.

This mess started at the top and everyone caught up in it played some part.

--Happily Renting in SoCal

P.S.
I no longer speak to the couple I mentioned in this post. The wife and I were having lunch one day and she remarked that she loved my sweater. She crinkled up her nose and loudly said, "ewww, I wouldn't be caught dead in a Mervyn's" when I answered.

During that lunch, she also mentioned that she and her husband were "thinking of cleaning up [their] credit so [they] could qualify for a home loan."

She AND her husband epitomize everything that is wrong with this country. Being an ass***e isn't gender-specific.

Anonymous said...

Sorry people, but I don't buy this fallacious argument for women being paid less than men for the same exact job.

Most HR depts have to post salary ranges for the types of tracks available, at their respective firms. If a women was a Senior Engineer Level 2 and was paid, as a Level 1, there'd be a lawsuit period which the labor board would immediately support. The only Level 2, paid as a Level 1, got permission to take every Wednesday off to spend with her baby, and as a result, took a 20% paycut w/o fanfare. Is having a 32 hour work week a form of discrimination?

Anonymous said...

"Don’t marry these divorced women.. "

My Dad ALWAYS told me to NEVER marry a woman who ALREADY has kids.

Never get yourself involed in a woman with luggage...or else her problems will soon be yours too.

So far, my dad has been EXACTLY right. Wise man, he is...

Anonymous said...

Don't fall for the buy a big house/fancy car thing to impress the girls, it's ridiculous crap fed to you by people selling that stuff.

Get yourself a cute little dog. Treat it well and go for lots of walks. Much cheaper and much more effective.

-Non-money grubbing female

Anonymous said...

the women in our culture have at the median, become morally bankrupt & irresponsible. They have become zombies of consumerism and greed. We men are not immune from criticism. We have allowed it to happen as society says we should treat them equally in the relationship. I would argue that 80-90% of consumption in this economy is driven by the "fairer" sex.

Don Greenup said...

Yes and after being stressed out and unhappy because the payments are too high divorce occurs and the women get the house. The end....

Anonymous said...

After reading some of these comments I know confirm that I hit gold with my marriage / wife.

We are a married couple in our 30s.

she: Not fat. Attractive. Very responsible with the kids. Very low maintenance. Doesnt need the latest and greatest crap. Very budget minded. Doesnt need to upstage the Joneses. Prefers to stay at home with husband and kids versus 'girls night out'. Doesnt have a multitude of credit cards, very frugal

Me: doesnt like sports. Doesnt like 'muscle cars' (drive an old Honda). Likes to stay at home. Isnt picky about food or dining. Likes to go shopping( when we rarely do) with my wife. Prefers to spend his free time with wife and kids over a 'boys night out'. has no problems letting wife handle the budget (lousy with cash).


Sometimes I feel like we are not normal and live a boring life around our friends who are constantly taking trips, buying crap, the latest this and that for the kids, cars boats,etc.
Yet I know for a fact, we have a higher household income than most.
Weird feeling.

Anonymous said...

Rules to live by:
*NEVER, EVER date a single mother. You already know her stance on abortion, she wont have one. Don't risk paying vaginamoney! PLUS, her kids will always come before you! Why would you want to be second place to some spoiled little brat!?!

*Never do what you don't want to do. You make the money, you decide where you are going and what you are doing.

*Don't ask a women what she wants to do.

*Never tell a women how much money you make.

*Don't EVER date co-workers! Unless you don't give a rats ass about your job, stay away from people you work with! It's always asking for trouble.

*Never answer the phone, or go out on the weekend. Even if you really don't, you have to make it appear as though you have better things to do than be with her on the weekends.

*Never spend more than 40 bucks on a date. This includes buying gifts, flowers, candy, jewelry, etc. It does NOT help in getting laid. It's a waste of money. If anything, buy alcohol and get her drunk.

*NEVER approach a woman in a club who has her girlfriends with her. There is NO point, you will NOT get laid when women are in groups.

*If you are not getting laid by the 3rd date, dump her and move on.

*No spooning, no cuddling, no staying over. Get in, get out!

*Never be in a committed relationship UNTIL you are really ready to settle down.

*NEVER answer the phone on the weekends. It makes you look like you have nothing better to do. Weekends should be reserved for hanging out with your buddies or for guaranteed sex. Even if you really have nothing to do, let the answering machine take the call. You're busy.

*Don't speak to women you work with unless it's related directly to work. Don't date them. Don't tell them they look nice. Don't comment on anything except whatever work needs you have, because you're a walking lawsuit waiting to happen.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Laura laughs...Ha Ha Ha

This whole thing was created to bankrupt Americans, and pushed by the media talking heads. This won't end pretty, but that was the plan of the elite.

Traitors, all.

Anonymous said...

Don't blame women, blame yourself for doing it. I am a woman, I said no to buying because it was a crazy investment.
He signed, did she hold a gun to his head?

Anonymous said...

Divorce lawyers have now entered the boom

what i've learned said...

Women have an interesting genetic defense reflex.

Women will not accept criticism (constructive or otherwise) from men. Even when confronted with overwhelming objective evidence. Internal dialogue: "Oh he's just being a man." "Pig-headed man" "All men are jerks".

Women prefer to listen to other women (more women saying/doing the same thing = more likely she'll accept it as truth) or authority figures (TV, govt, education) of either sex (e.g., Dr. Laura, Oprah, Dr. Phil).

Lesson
Best to use other women and/or authority figures to persuade females. Higher probability of success.

Frank@NeverColdCall.com said...

Watch out for another phony terror event created only to suck more money from morons. You Republican sheeple, are geniuses!

Sir, thank you for identifying yourself as one of those insane "Bush is behind 9/11" conspiracy theorists. You have destroyed any bit of credibility you had, freeing me from doing the job for you. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Great we found a way to blame this on WOMEN....LMAO

Women caused the great housing bubble, so now they should just take the blame. All men can go gay and no more bubble, happy?

Frank@NeverColdCall.com said...

Usually, with few exceptions, it is the woman who drives this.

Before attacking women though, I think it's important to point out that women have a built-in maternal and nesting instict that causes them to seek out financial security. Nature has wired women so their primary goal in life is to protect and nurture their children. Even women who have no desire to have kids will still have this program in their minds, constantly driving them to seek material comforts and most importantly a house (i.e. the nest).

Having said that, I will agree that women as a whole are far more status-conscious then men. Look at how frequently women try to "make over" their men, while we like our women exactly as they were when we met them. No need to change them ... if we didn't like them as-is we wouldn't have dated them in the first place.

as long as there was a place to plug in his overpriced 60" big-screen TV and a place to park his overpriced 10mpg SUV and his overpriced powerboat.

Well, for most couples I know, the boat and SUV were the woman's idea. And have you even noticed that the vast majority of people driving SUVs are soccer mom type women? As for the HDTV, I certainly enjoy ours, but my girlfriend watches it a lot more than I do, so please stop with the men and TV stereotype. I'm a man and I happen to consider TV a complete waste of time. I haven't seen many movies in my life but I've been hard-pressed to meet a woman who hasn't seen every movie ever made and who watches dumb sitcoms and especially reality shows on a regular basis.

everyone knows that most women are illogical when it comes to finances. most of the people with crushing credit card debt are women. how often do you see men with 50 pairs of shoes? how many men have closets full of clothes they have never worn?

This is true as well. I think it's a combination of nature's built-in drive for women to seek security, as well as women's unreasonable status-consciousness. Every woman I've ever known in my life has closets of clothes and shoes and yet always complains about having nothing to wear. Every event, wedding, dinner, birthday, etc., is an excuse to go out and buy another dress and pair of expensive shoes on credit and then stress every month when the bills come in. (This is true for even the most down-to-earth women so any "I'm not like that" comments will be dimissed as false.)

Anonymous said...

"Please. Cribs is a celebrity voyeurism show. HGTV, Flip This House, etc... are for the masses.

Think I'm full of it? Here's the show summary from the MTV site:"

Did you even read the description? Thanks for proving my orpoint that men are just as materialistic and shallow as women.

turdly said...

August 30, 2007 8:59 PM
P.S.
I no longer speak to the couple I mentioned.

I make an absolute crap load of money low mid 7 figs, varies 500k from year to year.

I still shop for things. I'll drop $200 at a steak house, without drinks, then not buy the $7 flashlight. I treat myself well and to be able to treat others well I live in a modest home, have modest friends, do modest fun things. 'Never caught in a Mervyns's the poster child for ARM posiers. Unless we're off by ourselves we're very casual and you wouldn't know us from a waiter and his receptionist wife, but whn we're on a trip alone then the gloves come off.

I would never foresake a friend and have all of my friends from all the years of my life. But I have come to a few conclusions on making new ones, including women;

Please come enjoy a ride on my boat. If it's because it's a really really cool boat, swim to shore. if it's because we seem like a fun group, great welcome aboard.

Drive a Hummer while being employed as a bank teller, kiss my ass.

Live in Phoenix and drive a black car with a black interior? You're far too vain, arrogant, stupid, to play with us.

I don't mind phony rolies, tell me it's real and you can piss right off.

When someone comes to my house with kids, if the kid is over 18 and unemployed or not a FULL time student, sleep in the car you flake the bar and guest house are for everyone but slackers. [I have nephews that aren't even allowed in my town, I have left HUGE tips for young waitresses busting their ass.]

It's always both spouses who are guilty or one of them would of left already. Browbeat, pusswipped, or just too lazy to leave, some turd said 'DO IT!" and some goob did.

32 years married now,
jr highschool sweethearts. It was never hard for us. We didn't have to overcome religious opinions, political opinions, even which shelf the mayonaise goes on. We had no set in stone opinions on anything we were so young.
I have the muscle cars, the boats, the homes the whole enchilada.

I just have to sum up with;
If she was harpie when you were dating, guess what?

If he was a dumabass when you were dating, guess what?

Forget all that other stuff I said.
I mean that you can actually pick your friends and spouse. It's like the housing market, some of us made it, some of us went fot the easy ARM. Now the easy way is covered in poop.

Anonymous said...

Don Greenup post / post follow up post:
The rules of the game

Chapter 12, Article 1, Paragraph 3 - The rule book clearly states that he who has the pus*y in the end, wins.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA!

Smug Bastard

Anonymous said...

My EX wanted to take HELOC to buy stocks in 2000. Did I blame him? No I just said, no.

Anonymous said...

"They should bring back debtors prisons. That would make people think twice before borrowing more than they can repay. The only exceptions would be for illness or other such emergency. The loans officers who approve such loans will receive a flogging."

Not prisons, they cost $$ to maintain. Forced labor camps so they can pay back what they owe. Would like to crack the whip on the likes of Skilling, Ebbers and Orangzilo working 12 hours shifts in the salt mines.

Anonymous said...

Wow, talk about mean America with fangs and claws exposed. Time to find a new place to blog, all blogs end up the same because Americans are just basically mean and childish.

See ya, enjoy your blame game.

Paul E. Math said...

Emotion is the enemy of rational thought.

Anonymous said...

it would be real interesting if the fed drops the interest rate with Q2 GDP growth of 4% plus...

america 1776 to 2007 said...

RE: Sir, thank you for identifying yourself as one of those insane "Bush is behind 9/11" conspiracy theorists. You have destroyed any bit of credibility you had, freeing me from doing the job for you. Thanks!
***********************************

This is not Frank, but I must say he is much more intelligent than you. Like millions of people from around the globe, we to investigated the truth about the PNAC/BUSH/CHENEY NEO-CON/GOP secret attacks. It was all a big joke. Believe me bud, the shit has hit the fan (BIG TIME) and in the end, there is only the truth and a destroyed America. (just what they wanted) You know who the king of bull sh*t is and you know who licks his boots.

Anonymous said...

Ok--you know how guys get competitive over
weekend basketball hoop throwing????
WELL-----

Women often pressure other women to become a lemmings and purchase a home without regard for timing the market. I know firsthand how this feels and have endured this since 2004!

We live in an APT in Sunny Southern CA (LA to be exact) where materialsm was coined. Home of Paris, Britney, Nicole and Lindsay.........................
My husband and I are currently the last hold outs in our group and it has been a long and lonely road.

I had to reexamine friendships where girlfriends tried to make us feel 'lesser than" for living in apt.
I was constantly defending our decision and hearing snide cutting remarks:
"Coastal areas NEVER go down in price"
"Your kids really need a backyard"
(Why--many New Yorkers survive taking kids to local parks???)
"Do your girls share a room, isn't that crowded?"
"Apt life is so loud" "You can't paint the walls."
"You guys can afford to buy--what is going on?"
Yada Yada Yada--I have heard it all.........

We have enough saved for a down but resisted due to the insanity of the market
and sound advice from relatives who are financial analysts. I actually terminated friendships with two women because of the Bubble and their nastiness with our following a different path. We live in a large two bedroom apt near the beach in a very desirable
area in los Angeles with top schools and I have been browbeaten on this topic by other women.

So yes, the nesting urge was a driving force but
the JONSES dynamics between women are also a root cause.

One of the smug women who bought at the top
in the San Fernando valley. I refer to the Valley as "LA's jilted lover"---- came up to me recently and said: "Are you guys jumping in now because the housing market is suppose to go down 25%?????"

My answer: Why on earth we would jump in now when prices will actually be plummenting 50%
by 2009?

She just looked at me funny and walked away....

Anonymous said...

Keith:
Wait for the great news from the White House Rose Garden today.
All family quarrels resolved.
All foreclosures resolved.
All Flippers, Speculators and Fraudsters, dumb(?) borrowers pardoned.

Best Ending to Suzanne.

Anonymous said...

This is one of the best posts on this blog that I have ever read!

IMO this is what happened.

Big business long ago figured out how to manipulate women into manipulating their men. The mass media programs both men and women daily on how to think.

Social Attitudes were changed among women where it became O.K. to nag and henpeck your man to achieve desires.

Traditionally in business, selling to men is HARD. Most men, when not influenced by woman, will use logical thinking to make purchasing decisions. Whereas, most woman are influnced by what other woman think. Purchasing decisions are mostly emotional for woman.

MEN, if you want to be happy and in any long term relationship with a woman. Follow these simple rules:

#1. Have your own SPACE! By this I mean your own private area with a deadbolt lock on the door. Have a 'DO NOT DISTURBE' sign [DND Sign] that you can display on the door to your space.

#2. Demand under threat of Divorse [or Split-Up] that she not bother you for any reason (except a bonfide life-death crisis) when you are in your space with the DND sign posted.

#3. Inform her that you will not tolerate any form of verbal abuse or disrespect from her whatsoever; and that her punishment for any such actions will be you retreating into your SPACE, and posting the DND sign for hours.

#4. Do not waiver on your enforcement of her punishment under rule 2 or 3 above.

-----------------
O.K. Here is why these rules have the power to override the mass media and corporate advertiser who spend millions of dollars to brainwash your woman against you.

In a relationship she hungers for your attention. This hunger of hers is satisfied if you are in the same space with her or on the phone with her. In fact most woman pick fights just to get attention.

What proof? Try comming home from work while she is at home. Walk in the door while pretending to be talking to and old school chum. Stay on the phone, get your self something to eat and go into another room by yourself and continue to stay on the phone.

Depending on the woman, it will take on average 15 to 45 minutes for her to attempt to get you off the phone --- she wants you to pay attention to her!!!

A woman hungry for attention may pick a fight over the dumbest things and argue with you for hours then leave in a rage. She only leaves after her hunger for attention is furfilled!

Like one poster on this blog said... it used to be the back of a man's hand would teach the bitch not to be a bitch or else. Then a bunch of pussy polititions made a bunch of laws that screw the guy who gets verbally abused and fights back physically--- so the answer is to FIGHT back psycologically!!!!

DENY HER WHAT SHE CRAVES MOST-
Need to train a dog? Its done with sticks and carrots. Need to train your woman? Its done with sticks and carrots.

O.K. the DND sign is the STICK.
The carrot is attention for her only when she is talks to you in a warm and repectfull tone of voice to you.

If she slips, and she will often at first... then occasionally from time to time (testing your resolve for the rest of your life)... YOU MUST NEVER WAIVER IN HITTING HER WITH THE AFOREMENTIONED STICK!

After 8 years of marriage to a full time bitch... A preist told me that GOD wanted me to teach my wife how to obey-- something about it being in the Bible and that she could never feel safe and secure if I allowed her to push me around.
He gave me the above rules over 3 years ago. I'm happy to report that both my wife and I have both been much happier since. Honestly, the first 3 months were HELL & I spend most of my time in MY SPACE ALONE. It got to the point she threatned to move out of the house and back in with her mother if I did not give her a key to MY SPACE. My response to this threat was, "Fine with me, but don't think you are coming back to after you leave because I'm changing the locks on house after you leave."

She packed up her stuff, loaded it in her car, then sat in the driveway and cried for two and one half hours. I thought she left so I came out of my space and later found her in the driveway.

I grabed the keys to my car, which was parked next to hers; walked out and got into my car. I rolled down the window and told her that I was going to the store to buy steak for dinner. I asked her if she wanted me to pick one up for her. She nodded her head yes.

By the time I got back from the store, she was back in the house. She was cooking some side dishes for dinner. Ever since, she respects MY SPACE and doesn't dare disturb me when I have the DND sign posted.

Anonymous said...

Another reason to think before you marry. If you marry someone wo blows money, you deserve it - guys and gals. Stop whining.

Anonymous said...

Please learn how to spell Mr. DND. I'll bet you have bodies in your basment.

Anonymous said...

Here's the thing - and this is to the women only... the real story is that the grass is not always greener. After spending my 20's & early 30's spending too much on material goods, and being selfish & irresponsible - it finally hit home that my husband, who works hard to have me stay at home & raise our kids, might really leave me due to my irresponsible spending habits.

Granted, towards the last years, I had toned it down - shopping at Target, etc., and I thought that was good enough. But it wasn't - it caused him stress & anger. So what I decided to do was to change how I saw myself - not as the best dressed, trendiest mother, etc. - but as a smart woman. One who drops off & picks up her kids every day in a used Honda minivan, maintains a house that's affordable & big enough, cooks dinner every night, etc. One who volunteers, advocates legislatively on select issues, attends school board meetings, etc. (This way, my boys see that their mother, although not a wage earner, was not an idiot & it helps to instill a sense of advocacy & civic duty in them at a young age.)

The bottom line is - I do this because I love my husband & my sons. I can't spend my husband's money like there is no tomorrow. It will devastate my family's future and lead to a divorce. I don't care what people think of us & our lifestyle - we're happy. You would not believe the rage we get sometimes because we don't care about other peoples' opinions. They are stunned when we don't care.

If you make your own money as a woman - do what you want. But for those of us who have the luxury of staying at home - you can't have it all. I struggle with the demons of wanting stuff every day, but through practice I can pretty much do without. I stay thin & he pays for my hair cut & color every 5 weeks, and he buys my anti-anxiety meds every month. I still need to have more sex with my husband, and use coupons at the grocery store more often - but I'm working on it.

For now - it's not about me - it's about the family. Stay at home women need to deal with it.

Anonymous said...

Did you even read the description? Thanks for proving my orpoint that men are just as materialistic and shallow as women.

Yes. I agree. The CELEBRITY MEN depicted on the show "are just as materialistic and shallow as women". "Did you even read the description?" LOL

MTV Cribs is a voyeurism show. Celebrity watching/worship is primarily a female/gay-male sport.

HGTV is complete different. Shows grown little girls how to make their dollhouse dream a reality. Again, target audience is primarily female/gay-male.

Anonymous said...

I cannot blame all women for this disaster, certainly there were a few men eager to flip for profit. I do believe that women are more "McMansion" oriented than men, simply becasue of the nesting instinct. Unfortunately, life is not always fair - women have half the money and all the booty. In the end, most men opt for the booty...

turdly said...

Wow.
I'm often described as the biggest girl many have ever met.

I don't watch professional sports as I see it as a county fair display of a prized goat. It does serve a purpose as to give the completely uneducatable a chance at success [yes some are very educaed, let's keep this to generalities], but other than that a demonstration by team owners of the prize chattel.

I treat women equally, but I will not hesitate to hold a door for them. I would do the same for a man. I do not hesitate to help carry things for a woman I do not know, get things from a shelf, generally avail myself to them; I'm 6'4 and 235lbs so I can carry a load for you man or woman.

I have never met a woman that did not have a beautifull attribute of some sort, a smile, an attitude, a feminine attribute. Ok, there was one woman back when I was about 20. I still roll her through my mind occaisionally wondering what I may have missed.

We were married as children, as close to an arranged marriage as you can get in the slightly trashy version of WASP we grew up in. Never a moments doubt. I hear 'marriage has its ups and downs' Ours never had a down yet. Not for a moment.

I am deeply ashamed to be male if this is truly how they believe in general. It's even getting old if it's just posturing.

I'm not a wimp; Marine recon and f-4 backseat. One of my favorite jokes
What's the first thing a woman does when she finally comes home from the battered wife safe house? It better be the goddamn dishes!
I make a great living, in shape [sorta] but not maniacal about it.
Boy scout attributes all the way. It's part of a promise I made to my parents. I would imagine you either made the same promise or conveyed that you would be a good boy throughout life.

My relationship with women/wife is a promise I made to them and her. It's part of the wedding vow. People sometimes ask why I do what I do and why, although I make a lot of money, can quit anytime I like, why am I always working on PLAN B?
It's because I made the promises.
It's all about her. I have the ability, she gives undying uninterupted suport. I'd live in a van down by the river, but I promised to strive.

Real men make promises, pretenders piss and moan like you guys are. Your mom must be so proud.

Commenting on spelling and grammar are sure sign that you have nothing usefull to add to a conversation. Some of us are gifted with 120wpm and lucidity. Simpletons and the punctilious have time for spell check. My grammar and spelling are not nearly as important as the conveyance. I see no reason to interrupt a rational thought stream to impress you with the fact that I may be able to find the spell check button.

yikes said...

They, asked me how I knew,
My true love was true,
I of course replied, something here inside,
Can not be denied.

They, said some day you'll find,
All who love are blind,
When you heart's on fire, you must realize,
Smoke gets in your eyes.

So I chaffed them, and I gaily laughed,
To think they would doubt our love,
And yet today, my love has gone away,
I am without my love.

Now laughing friends deride,
Tears I cannot hide,
So I smile and say, when a lovely flame dies,
Smoke gets in your eyes,

Smoke gets in your eyes.

There are some really f'd up thoughts on women and men here. If you can't treat a person with respect, you won't get any back. Stupidity is an equal opportunity condition.

Anonymous said...

When I was getting married, one of my coworkers who had been married 40+ years already gave me one advice: "Don't argue with your wife, listen to what she has to say, but do it YOUR OWN WAY". It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission...

I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones. Aside from the fact that I stuck to that advice, I am married to a VERY FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE woman. We bought in '03 and had a list of criteria that had to be satisfied before we sign on the dotted line: 30 year fixed (ours at 4.875%), total price such that our monthly mortgage is just a notch above our rent payment, no taking out equity.

I think part of the problem comes from the lack of education, financial education in particular.

Anonymous said...

my retarded husband insisted on buying this spring. we paid $665K (100K mortgage) for a 2 family in the NY metro area which will need approximately another 100K in rehab - not to mention flood-proofing, as the house is in a flood plain and we've already got 8 inches in our kitchen and living room during a recent deluge. i don't even want to live in the city we are in. i thought that we should have held out and bought a place in the suburbs, close to my parents. but he is always right (or so he was taught by his stupid trust-fund-providing parents), and wouldn't even hear anything i had to say about it. fuck it, it's his money, i don't care. or rather, his parents money - he didn't do a damn thing to earn one red cent of it.

dean said...

turdly,

my standards are much simpler and more straightforward: if anyone uses the term "phony rollie" in my presence or talks about vacation as a time when "the gloves come off," I generally ignore them.

turdly said...

Then I guess I can't expect very good service from your table waiter ass.

Anonymous said...

To: Anon who posted...

Please learn how to spell Mr. DND. I'll bet you have bodies in your basment. August 31, 2007 3:01 PM

From: The DND guy.

-----------
Responses:

#1. I'm happy & still married, perhaps it is you with those bodies in the basement.

#2. Copied from another poster...

Commenting on spelling and grammar are sure sign that you have nothing usefull to add to a conversation. Some of us are gifted with 120wpm and lucidity. Simpletons and the punctilious have time for spell check. My grammar and spelling are not nearly as important as the conveyance. I see no reason to interrupt a rational thought stream to impress you with the fact that I may be able to find the spell check button.

Anonymous said...

"(This is true for even the most down-to-earth women so any "I'm not like that" comments will be dimissed as false.)"

Frank@NeverColdCall.com: You are an amazing idiot, and perhaps ought to crawl out of your basement and meet some people sometime. My wife bought her wedding dress on Ebay for $60 (they sell perfectly good brand-new dresses that have been sitting around under plastic just to get rid of them) and refused to wear a diamond engagement ring.