What really pisses you off when it comes to the housing bubble / housing crash?
June 11, 2007
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88 comments:
That con men made so much easy money
.
Keith,
What really pisses me off is the fact that the Feds are pretending to not have forseen the repercusions of this whole debacle that they caused in the first place.
RayNLA
That I didn't have more rentals to profit from when I sold out in 2005.
The money I lost in the 1991 California crash and the lies, omissions, and cooked data published in the media.
What really pisses me off?
Because I sold properties before the big run up in prices, I look on zillow and see what my properties have sold for since I sold them and it makes me sick, pissed off, jealous, frustrated and resentful. I've got a case of the could've, should've, would'ves real bad.
My life is one big, in the right place at the wrong time scenario and since I'm a petty SOB I want to see other people feel the same pain I'm feeling. I WANT SCHADENFREUDE!! So, I'm a very, very bitter owner at the moment. As soon as I sell this place (which I won't have any problems doing because I'm near the energy boom in wyoming), I'm going to become a bitter renter and watch for opportunities.
Who knows, maybe I'll buy a nice brick home in Ohio for $10K and retire completely. Until then I look forward to the carnage. This country needs a BIG reset.
greedy flippers pricing honest people out of decent housing..
If it existed, I'd comment. However this housing crash you speak of is only in the imagination of tin foil hat wearing, Ron Paul supporting crazy people.
that i was right about the insane prices but could not sell my dump in the summer of 2005 (even after several price cuts)
Being a renter (sold late last year due in part to this blog), wanting to buy a home again, but seeing prices hold steady in a slow, saturated market (central Ohio).
Its taking sooo damn long.
AGREED
The fact that I made the mistake of buying another house after I cashed out in June 06. Should have took the profits and invested in the market and rented. What was I thinking? Now I can't even sell this one. Neighbor just dropped their price $100K and still no one is biting. I am stuck in a neighborhood of empty homes held by flippers and banks and have no one to blame but myself...
SH@T--
Small Hat
That the sheeple and crook politicians don't realize that a huge amount of illegal immigrants were also committing mortgage fraud, flipping, or buying homes they couldn't afford with Liar's Loans. These are the same illegals who are now seeking amnesty, while dumping all the costs on taxpayers.
That MSM has been downplaying the severity of this housing bust.
That my taxpayer money will be eventually used to bail out these greedy people...
Marky Mark
That it doesn't unwind faster.
The fact that people still think China is going to be holding all the bad housing debt.
China has reduced it's US reserves to about a quarter of what they used to be 6 months ago. They went to countries like Brazil and made deals to get all of their resources for the next ten years... or more. Because of this, the US has now become a debtor nation to Brazil. Same goes for Argentina.
What alot of people don't realize is that now the US government (ie Joe Taxpayer) is going to be indirectly holding all that bad housing debt. This is ON TOP of the already huge debts the US government has to foreign countries.
Good luck dudes - you are officially now in an economic death spiral. Everything that isn't welded down is going to be exported out of your country. It's only a matter of time before you open the old landfills and start shipping the garbage - it'll be the last thing of any value.
I can just hear the refrain from so many... "But THAT can't happen to us!" Sort of like what the flippers said when they were told interest rates would go up.
Most people have no idea how bad things COULD get.
There's so much to choose from...
I'd have to say it's the coming tidal wave of expensive, stupid government programs and restrictions that will be put in place because these consenting adults who signed on the bottom line for loans they couldn't afford will now whine that they are "victims" - and they are, but they are victims of other stupid government programs such as housing loan interest tax credits, Fannie Mae, Freddie Crack, the million crimes of HUD (they have helped turn cities into ethnic enclaves of embittered citizens who trusted them to "help" with their many programs).
Who knows how ugly it will get. And those of us who chose to sit on the sidelines and build up cash wealth, not "house wealth"? We'll get our bank accounts looted by taxes to pay for the stupidity of these "victims".
Ugh.
That responsible potential buyers who make an above-average income (even for their area) and who insist on the sensible 30 yr fixed-rate loan (rejecting the insanity and short-sightedness of toxic loans) cannot buy a decent place in bubble areas. Also, the fact that the mainstream media made it seem (and still makes it seem in some degree) like nothing crazy was going on, as if such prices are logical. The stories that they published of economists and other NAR affiliates who said that after > 100%+ appreciation from 2001-2005, that after a slight dip that the upswing would soon resume. The fact that the MSM printed this nonsense without any reservation or critical thought.
Snowflake Serin fleeing to Australia!
Casey Serin et al., and the fact that law enforcement doesn't seem to care very much at all.
The possibility that my tax dollars will be used to bail out hapless sheeple that took out moronic loans. If that happens I am moving to another country.
That buyers could get mortgage loans for 6 to 8 times earnings (or more) based on fraud or the promise that "values" would rise forever.
That prices are still not falling in Seattle.
That it isn't happening fast enough.
I can't wait to get back to 2.5 times annual income as a mortgage amount, 10% rates [who in their right mind would lend for less?], 20% down, pet store clerks that don't drive Hummers....
Ambitious couples who scrimped and saved, got all dressed up and went looking for a mortgage while wearing their best clothes and demeanor. I miss the sense of accomplishment of them getting a HOME. Skin is the difference between a house and a home.... I want to get back to skin, in everything.
One of my earliest memories was of my grandmother flipping houses in 1960. She would buy some torn up little shack, slap some 'Papago Pink', or 'Navajo Blue' on it [there was also an awfull pastel green but I can't remember the name now], put in a new stove, cut some weeds and make 30% or so on it. She did about 100 of them. Flippers have been around for a very long time. The difference is now every stripper and paperboy was doing it. They're going back to the pole and the corner. No skin, no care, jusst lies to tell about. You've heard it before; 'I used to own my own business but my partner stole from me" what will we hear from the failed flippers and liar loan people? A goblin ate my home so I just walked away....
The Caseys
The "victims"
Anyone selling a home now, and copping an attitude about not getting their summer '05 price.(or an '03 or '02 price for that matter)
The government for considering bailing out the con-men banks or FB's.
I don't hate any of the Realtrolls or Mortgage companies, I haven't heard any stories of FB's being forced at gunpoint into signing anything....
That Realwhores still keep chirping the mantra about how housing "always goes up."
Yes agreed, all the unearned income is what really burns me
and no one went to Jail.
The buyers that took the gamble, took the ARM, took the 125% Loans, bought the house they couldn't afford and blame the lenders now the rates are going up. Should have checked to see if they could afford that house at the ARM Cap rate.....dumb@$$es
All the clearly biased REIC cheerleaders & sky is falling chicken littles. Very little reasonable, objective analysis that would have kept this from happening and or could now be used to really soften the landing. So we will all now have to pay for the consequences of all this irrationality. History repeats itself again and only a few years after the last time it was "different"!!
The worst part of the housing bubble is the effect it has had and will have on the family budgets of the middle class 20 and 30-somethings who will have to pay an unprecedented portion of their take home pay just to cover housing and related taxes and expenses. No money will be left to set aside for retirement and/or as a safety cushion for a job loss or an injury.
The middle class will be all but gone within the next decade. Soon enough we will all be sneaking into Mexico to find work.
My BITCH ASS neighbors who keep stealing my For Sale flyers from my sign at 2 in the morning! Mother fuckers are pissed I am selling at about 50k less than most comps for sale around the block. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!
The unearned sense of accomplishment by the real estate community.
Greg Swann of course!
Asshole
Criminal mexican invaders, hands down.
so to recap:
you are all bitter renting idiots who are jealous that you didn't get in while the getting was good. Enjoy the rentals everyone.
Keith,
What really pisses you off man?
Other than the hopeless Anon posters on your blog!
RayNLA
That Greg Swain edits out my comments because they do not fit his utopia of realestate.
He is hiding something AND we all know what that is... REALITY.
I'm pissed that I am obsessed with the housing market and now trying to judge the market on the way down. Prices are dropping so fast in Florida that I can now get a home for cash at pre-bubble levels at over 50% off of peak. I can also now get a home from a FBer for less than my rent. But, I know that prices will continue to drop for several more years. If I buy, prices will keep shooting down. If I rent, I'm now spending more at this exact point in time. I find myself second guessing myself. Buy? Rent? Buy? Rent? Buy? Rent?
Anonymous said...
so to recap:
you are all bitter renting idiots who are jealous that you didn't get in while the getting was good. Enjoy the rentals everyone.
Another example of a person who screwed themself by not selling while the getting was good. Should have gotten out while you could buddy.
It isn't happening fast enough...
All those ARM Big Hat neighbors living way beyond their means looking down on those of us who live modestly, driving their HELOC Hummers while I drive my paid off old mini van..
Who will have the last laugh? I will, but is taking soooo long. I am so tired of them all thinking they are so much better than the rest of us. Can't wait for their fire sale when the banks come calling.
Small Hat
that houses became lottery tickets and get rich quick schemes for con artists, greedy ignorant sheeple and corrupt REIC, instead of homes people live in, raise families in, and pay a reasonable share of their take-home income for
that and the fact that david lereah isn't around to kick anymore
What pisses me off are all the specuvestors with the "why only flip one?" attitude that were camping out at pre-construction sales. Now those same douche bags are sueing the developers 'cos they want their deposit back. I say fuck 'em.
I hope they lose every penny they got and then some. Maybe that will teach them to screw up other people's lives by speculating with housing.
That the over inflated prices aren't falling fast enough in the DC area dammit!!!!!!!!!!! I refuse to pay $5,000 for a $650,00 single family home. Hell I refuse to pay $3,000 for a $450,000 townhouse.
There are so many things that piss me off about this whole thing, I can't name them all. But among the top is being laughed at, verbally smacked down and called every imaginable derogatory name in the book for trying to help and warn people. As another HP'er says: BURN BABY BURN!
The trolls get ignored that is what bothers them the most, they are played out and no one cares any more about them flame baiting.
Crash is underway, people are going to be destroyed, economies will be shaken if not leveled, all the while no one goes to jail nothing is changed - and the greed driven Gov sleeps.
1. that way less than 10% of the serious fraudsters will ever be caught or punished...
2. that I will get slammed with the bailout costs due to all the corrupt grandstanding politicians who facilitated this in the first place...
3. that there is nothing I can do about it, and the political system will just go rolling right along screwing me and anyone else who cannot work these rolling asset bubbles...
They sold out the next generation of home buyer,to become mortage slaves
That Casey Serin has yet to be arrested!
Making 120k and not being able to buy what I consider to be a modest home because of the "boom" and allowing illegals in the country to create demand to keep it from bursting.
Thanks Boomers- first you saddle us with huge amounts of debt ala student loans in order for us to land the jobs you f*cks were getting out of high school, you then ship the entire country's manufacturing and tech base overseas, and then you create a housing bubble to enslave my peers and/or keep most from owning unless we put our balls on the chopping block.
What pisses me off the most is that the Fed had absolutely no restraints, no oversight, on all that easy supply side money lending voodooo to anyone with a pulse, that was totally endorsed by the controlling republican congress, and president, and then they all act like they never knew what the results from this would be; when all along these systers, especially AG new exactly what caused the great depression of 1929, and still chose the same gawd damn road, and then some. Bill Mahar had it right, we americans gotta be the stupidest freekin' society on the face of the earth because we re-elect these scoundrels. Talk about not learning from history...
"The possibility that my tax dollars will be used to bail out hapless sheeple that took out moronic loans. If that happens I am moving to another country."
Me too. Being punished for fiscal responsibility.
And being the bearer of bad news to friends who don't want to listen. Being shot for being the messenger.
so many bitter losers here. oh no the crash isn't happening fast enough. newsflash cletus, it isn't happening period. Sales were up 16% last month. Countrywide is on a hiring spree. Every economist is predicing a late '07 or early '08 jump in prices.
Go vote for Ron Paul and watch the world pass you buy yet again.
The double speak:
E.G.:
The fact that on the way up everyone talked about how it was keeping the economy humming because housing market is integrated into all other aspects of the economy.
Now that we're on the way down, everyone is talking about how the housing slump is contained and will not spill over to the rest of the economy.
That on the way up RE prices are not sticky due to loose lending standards.
But now on the way down prices are sticky despite tighter lending standards.
That its always a good time to buy a home.
That Greenspan says everything is great while he is in office and now that he is out he says things are not so great!! And he knows full well that everyone will believe him and react accordingly.
The Orange Dude!!
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8PMT5P00.htm
"that houses became lottery tickets and get rich quick schemes for con artists, greedy ignorant sheeple and corrupt REIC, instead of homes people live in, raise families in, and pay a reasonable share of their take-home income for."
Amen.
Also:
That the greedy criminal perps won't get punished, because we can't afford to build enough jails.
That the working man will end up having to bail out the mess. You don't s'pose taxes are gonna be raised on the rich, do ya? The biggest part of the fallout is gonna land hard on the group least able to afford it. Always the way it is [sigh].
And finally, that so very many people forgot a basic value - a house is a HOME, as you said, keith. It ain't a status symbol, an investment, or a get-rich-quick scheme.
We are not bitter renters, but working poor homeowners, mortgage free, in a non-bubble area.
that anyone i talk to asks me when we'll be buying and the resulting weird looks when i mention prices seeming a little high or the 'b' word
When compare to the dieoff...housing is not going to be given another thought.
So nothing pisses me off about the housing crash.
If I told ya once keith I told ya a million times...housing ain't squat.
The precluding of any accountability for the trillions that will vaporize.
One guess who the bag holders
will be, and as a clue, it ain't the bankers.
Keith,
You gotta start ragging on HGTV. The programming on these realty channels haven't seemed to change one bit in the last two years.
Shows are still featuring the house flipping programming as if the real estate markets have not changed.
Who sponsors HGTV and others of that ilk?
NAR?
Oh, but Keith your questions are never stupid...
SH
What pisses me off is that I can't justify buying now. We sold due to a move 1-1/2 years ago in a transfer from a non boom area. Now nothing is moving where we left, so despite the fact that we didn't get much apreicaiton, we sold the place. The housing was so overpriced in the new location that we rented. I just want this to end so I can have my own space again.
On the other hand, we are renting a house that was valued at 500K when we moved in for $1,500. Now the house would sell for 400 if it sold, the next street over there are four in a row for sale. It's grim.
Oh yeah, today our wonderful landlord (really) just installed a new cooling system, including new vents, to the tune of at very least $3,000, because I told him what our AC bills were last year! The old system was so outdated that a crew spent the whole day here working but didn't finish. From a tenants perspective, it helps to rent from a wealthy landlord with a strong interest maintaining his property. Those might be rare birds.
All the people saying "Move along... Nothing to see here, everything is just fine..."
That and how slow the crash is moving. It'll speed up though... TNX has jumped over 1/2% in the last month... So have interest rates...
Stagflation part 2 anyone??
I'd love to see 12-15+% rates again...
That the hangover from this will probably still be around when my kid is grown. He wasn't even born when this started but will probably inherit an economic wasteland. Thanks David Lereah and all the other idiots that participated in this steamy pile of $hi&.
Sequoia512
What pisses me off is that I can't justify buying now. We sold due to a move 1-1/2 years ago in a transfer from a non boom area. Now nothing is moving where we left, so despite the fact that we didn't get much apreicaiton, we sold the place. The housing was so overpriced in the new location that we rented. I just want this to end so I can have my own space again.
On the other hand, we are renting a house that was valued at 500K when we moved in for $1,500. Now the house would sell for 400 if it sold, the next street over there are four in a row for sale. It's grim.
Oh yeah, today our wonderful landlord (really) just installed a new cooling system, including new vents, to the tune of at very least $3,000, because I told him what our AC bills were last year! The old system was so outdated that a crew spent the whole day here working but didn't finish. From a tenants perspective, it helps to rent from a wealthy landlord with a strong interest maintaining his property. Those might be rare birds.
I agree with flag707. The government programs that will come out of this will hurt the most. Every government entity will try and prop up this bubble as long as possible. And it will end up hurting the tax payer and the economy.
What pisses me off? Gosh, where do I start? I'm pissed off that this housing bubble is yet just another example of how those who don't take on debt, are thrifty and save money get punished, while those who recklessly take on debt get the tax breaks and will probably get bailed out in some fashion.
That the law enforcement community is so damned STOOPID, they cannot prosecute gift wrapped mortgage fraud cases, and some idiot Canadian gave Casey Serin $1000 so he could flee the country.
Don't try to compete with us Canada. We OWN the book on being being stupid.
This is really a market-by-market and segment-by-segment decline in housing prices. Here in Sacramento, I am a condo owner. I have seen my units price go from 100,000 in 2000 to 160,000 in 2002 to 285,000 in 2005. Now, it is somewhere between 205,000 and 225,000, and clearly on the way down. This market and this segment of housing is on the decline price-wise.
That said, what bothers me is that some people are "emotionalizing" this discussion, making it about "bitter renters" or "stupid housedebtors." I'm not sure that, given the poor economic grasp of the general population, it is a at all clear that those who bought into the house-mania are "stupid" by any means. On the other hand, the "bitter renters" argument is lducicrous. It is clear that right now, in most areas, it makes sense not to buy in general, while it is just as clear that in the future, prices will much more closely approximate historical guidelines of "affordability."
I sold in 2004, closing date was the day Hurricane Charley came trough so I had to wait for the storm to pass and have an inspection done. I moved to Costa Rica and sat back and watched the action. At first I was shocked that I could have made another 50k in just 1 year but hindsight is always 20/20, I made a good profit so who cares. In late 2005 I came back to Fort Myers and every friend I have was saying you are crazy not to buy now. I could sense BS and left to Tennesee for a year and a half, sold made a profit and now rent in a nice area in Fort Myers for 1K a month where my friends pay 3k plus for their Mortgages plus taxes and insurance. Am I pissed? Not for me but only my friends who got caught up in this mania and suffer now. I just am thankfull to listening to my gut feeling on this and for my patience. We have a long painfull way to go to the bottun of this. Good luck to all and look out for yourselves.
Making 120k and not being able to buy what I consider to be a modest home
---------------------------------
Hate to break it to you but 120k is like 70k back in late 90s.
All the wasted years not getting the local self sustainability in agricultures seeded and planted in/.at the dawning of what will be peak oil, and make only localy produced products available... or the new declarations of wilderness areas in large areas of the wes that will keep the public off public lands, in order to muddy the pictures of ownerships of mineral wealths, that may be yhe next energy oil production lands, probanly thus sold to private owners, or todays lawmakers paymasters.....
"Hate to break it to you but 120k is like 70k back in late 90s. "
Obviously, you have no clue as to what average income is in this country. You're probably a Bush supporter.
Another Trolling Anon said...
so many bitter losers here. oh no the crash isn't happening fast enough. newsflash cletus, it isn't happening period. Sales were up 16% last month. Countrywide is on a hiring spree. Every economist is predicing a late '07 or early '08 jump in prices.
Go vote for Ron Paul and watch the world pass you buy yet again.
___________________________________
RayNLA said...
I know a guy in Sacramento that would like to talk to you regarding a can't miss investment opportunity.
Most of it doesn't really get me mad. The realtors, flippers, etc. it's all entertainment to me. What can you do anyways? People being really stupid with their money is unavoidable. If it wasn't houses it would have been something else.
What does make me mad is any talk of using my money (in the form of taxes) to bail these people out. Makes a guy want to quit his job and enjoy some sweet welfare for a while.
That I make over double the local average household income as a single person, have no debt, have a positive net worth, and still can't afford a modest house.
That I am considered "stupid" for living within my means and actually saving money.
That I could be punished for being financially responsible thanks to government actions.
That I make over double the local average household income as a single person, have no debt, have a positive net worth, and still can't afford a modest house.
That I am considered "stupid" for living within my means and actually saving money.
That I could be punished for being financially responsible thanks to government actions.
Anonymous said...
Making 120k and not being able to buy what I consider to be a modest home because of the "boom" and allowing illegals in the country to create demand to keep it from bursting.
Thanks Boomers- first you saddle us with huge amounts of debt ala student loans in order for us to land the jobs you f*cks were getting out of high school, you then ship the entire country's manufacturing and tech base overseas, and then you create a housing bubble to enslave my peers and/or keep most from owning unless we put our balls on the chopping block.
You forgot the trillions in debt for thier wars in the Middle East!
Debtor Generation is what they need to call us X and Y's.
State and local taxing authorities extracting inflated assessment taxes from my house that I have no plan on selling so they can boost their budgets 10% a year to support the hordes
of bureaucrats that are employed for 20 years then collect a pension for the next 20 to 30.
The revolution is coming.
"Thanks Boomers- first you saddle us with huge amounts of debt ala student loans in order for us to land the jobs you f*cks were getting out of high school, you then ship the entire country's manufacturing and tech base overseas, and then you create a housing bubble to enslave my peers and/or keep most from owning unless we put our balls on the chopping block.
"
Dont worry, the BLOWBACK from the Gen X/Y crowd TOWARDS the baby boomers is comming.... And it's not going to be pretty either.
It bothers me that all those Gen X and Millenial debtards will have to be bailed out by the more cautious boomers.
That it happened here (DC)
That Dub-ya (GW) claims this as one of his accomplishments (bankrupting future gens of Americans)
That people are sheeple.
I agree with the Thinker; I would add:
That our government talks about jobs Americans won't do but encourages run-away costs for young couples wanting to start having kids. Soon (with these crazy costs) Americans won't want to be cops, firemen, teachers, plumbers, programmers, nurses....really anything but lobbyists and doctors. Americans will stop having children since 1 good income cannot support a household anymore. Then the government will cry about our birthrates and American (as we know it) will be wholly comprised of disgruntled foreigners living by the dozen in a local shanty near you.
Folks - this is genocide. Clever genocide but genocide all the same.
June 12, 2007 1:07 AM
Actually, no. Not "every economist."
I'm mad because even though I could buy, it would still mean handing some douchebag 40% more for the property than it's actually worth. For no good reason at all.
The attitudes of pro housing folks. I have yet to speak with someone who is pro housing without being called every name and FU'd to death.
Once housing has had its run up and down, no one will talk about it anymore. Similar to who won the world series or super bowl last year. It was fun while it lasted.
That I bought in one of the only condo communities in Toronto that didn't appreciate in value when all the insanity hit. I only sold in 2004 for 1K more than what I paid in 2002 when I should have bought new (in the ground) and guaranteed some nice profits, even if it meant renting for a while. But when you're a kid and have no perspective, you can't really guess at these things.
When the next housing boom/bust happens in like 25 years, I'll be ready.
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