June 21, 2007

A great post by HP'er Spectre of Deflation - Like Lambs to the Slaughter

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

It's almost like they planned the whole thing.

1. Greenspam tells people they need to go with the new and exciting exotic stuff instead of the old boring conventional mortgage, and the sheeple go for it. CHECK!

2. The sheeple are led to believe that debt is wealth by borrowing against their homes. Nobody bothers to tell them, and they are too stupid to know, that should the price of the home go down the debt still remains and the so called housing wealth is voporized. CHECK!

3. Meanwhile in the shadows, we have the banking lobby writing the new bankruptcy law making it much harder, if not impossible, for consumers to get a second chance thereby making them life long debt slaves. CHECK!

4. Folks, we have been hosed. The greatest transfer of wealth the world has ever seen. CHECK!

54 comments:

Anonymous said...

Stupid and irresponsible people got sucked in. There is one way out for the sheeple - leave the country. Sneak across the border to Mexico and demand that they provide free social services. Go to Canada. Hop on a raft and float to Cuba.

Anonymous said...

Still think W was a good idea.

fish said...

Good luck collecting those debts when 15 -18 percent of the population goes belly up. Anyone involved with collection or prosecution of debtors might have a real short career.

Swirlyman said...

Same thing is happening here in Canada...

Doktaire said...

W will be known forever as the worst president in US history.

Just imagine if Gore had won, who thinks a vote for Nader was a bad idea now?

Dumbass, "I was voting with my conscience" bullshit, congratulations in making sure the person you least wanted to win, won, bravo.

Anonymous said...

You can still declare bankruptcy, if you have $150 in your bank account, and have little to no assets. That's chapter 7. Otherwise you go chapter 13, and have five years where the courts will make you pay back some of the amount owed, then the rest is discharged after the five years.

As for the person that asked, W was a bad idea.

But hey, the American public will believe anything as long as you keep the bread and circus coming. Can't think for themselves, gotta catch the latest "so you think you can dance" crapola.

Anonymous said...

Off the housing Bubble for a second......
Most sheep are smarter and cuter
than most people. The problem is
that they don't THINK like most people. They don't run since the very idea of being murdered doesn't enter their non-evil minds.

Look up "vegetarian." It's in your dictionary, if you have one.

Adam said...

Yeah, I remember a post over at the mortgage lender implode-o-meter discussion board where a broker who got laid off realized she and her husband were getting in trouble themselves! She was apparently looking at bankruptcy laws, and posted whether anyone thought the recent changes in BK laws could've been planned.

Uh, do ya' think? No shitze, Sherlock. Bush and cronies saw problems coming down the road (and back-to-back asset bubbles were kind of a clue, no?), and decided to tighten up some of the gaps in the emergency exits to prevent sleeple from getting off without having to pay back their debt.

Another little minor detail many sheeple overlook:

taking out a HELOC and re-fi in essence overrides the homestead protections afforded by laws of many states when/if a person declares BK.

So that little HELOC spending spree a few years before? It means the borrower is screwed out of the homestead exemption, and the home which WILL go to foreclosure if they default.

Crazy coincidence, huh?

Anonymous said...

My favorite form of entertainment for the past six years?

Sitting back and watching the American people get more and more stupid by the day!!!!

The best part of it?

IT'S FREE!!!!

Anonymous said...

totally.

I'd like to add to those statements with regards to this seeminly being almost a setup.

2 major issues potentially solved.

1. People will have to work longer and retire later to pay off their debt meaning more $'s going into the SS coffer.

2. All the lame ass condo conversions will possibly help the homeless after they become HUD homes.

showmenouns said...

>So you think you can dance?

The reason for the popularity of shows like this is that you get to see, then you get a panel of experts to tell you what to think.


Bahhhh!

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

Keith, thanks for the shout out. As I have said before, the sheeple are about to learn the difference between liquidity/debt and money stock.

This is another symptom of a govt. that is not of the people or for the people. The congress has an even lower number [14%] than El Presidente' Jorge', and I didn't think it was possible. Every policy, foreign or domestic, is a complete joke.

Look no further than Illegal Immigration to see the real influence the electorate has on policy. NONE. 85% of Republicans [don't ask me what the Party Leadership stands for because I have no idea], and at least half the Democrats, [ditto on what the Hell their Leadership is thinking], hate El Presidente Jorge's Amnesty, but congress, like the EverReady Bunny refuses to quit with this boondoggle crap. Unbelievable!

Folks, we still have a chance to change things before it's too late. Support Ron Paul before this great Republic goes the way of the Roman Empire.

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

Anonymous said...
You can still declare bankruptcy, if you have $150 in your bank account, and have little to no assets. That's chapter 7. Otherwise you go chapter 13, and have five years where the courts will make you pay back some of the amount owed, then the rest is discharged after the five years.

As for the person that asked, W was a bad idea.

But hey, the American public will believe anything as long as you keep the bread and circus coming. Can't think for themselves, gotta catch the latest "so you think you can dance" crapola.

Read this and you can see how hosed consumers are:

To sum up, first figure out whether you are above or below the median income for your state - median income figures are available at http://www.new-bankruptcy-law-info.com. Be sure to account for your spouse's income if you are a two-income family. Next, deduct your average monthly living expenses from your monthly income and multiply by 60. If the result is above $10,000, you're stuck with Chapter 13. If the result is below $6,000, you may still be able to file Chapter 7. If the result is between $6,000 and $10,000, compare it to 25% of your debt. Above 25%, you're looking at Chapter 13 for sure.

Now, in these examples, I have ignored a very important aspect of the new bankruptcy law. As stated above, the amount of monthly income available toward debt repayment is determined by subtracting living expenses from income. However, the figures used by the court for living expenses are NOT your actual documented living expenses, but rather the schedules used by the IRS in the collection of taxes.

A big problem here for most consumers is that their household budgets will not reflect the harsh reality of the IRS approved numbers. So even if you think you are "safe," and are able to file Chapter 7 because you don't have $100 per month to spare, the court may rule otherwise and still force you into Chapter 13. Some of your actual expenses may be disallowed.

What remains to be seen is how the courts will handle cases where the cost of mortgages or home rentals are inflated well above the government schedules. Will debtors be expected to move into cheaper housing to meet the court's required schedule for living expenses? No one has any answers to these questions yet. It will be up to the courts to interpret the new law in practice as cases proceed through the system.

Anonymous said...

>>>> SPECTRE of Deflation said...

It's almost like they planned the whole thing.

1. Greenspam tells people they need to go with the new and exciting exotic stuff instead of the old boring conventional mortgage, and the sheeple go for it. CHECK!

2. The sheeple are led to believe that debt is wealth by borrowing against their homes. Nobody bothers to tell them, and they are too stupid to know, that should the price of the home go down the debt still remains and the so called housing wealth is voporized. CHECK!

3. Meanwhile in the shadows, we have the banking lobby writing the new bankruptcy law making it much harder, if not impossible, for consumers to get a second chance thereby making them life long debt slaves. CHECK!

4. Folks, we have been hosed. The greatest transfer of wealth the world has ever seen. CHECK! <<<<


naw!!! ya think?????

Anonymous said...

About that bankruptcy thing...anyone know if I can pay off my student loans (60K) with my credit cards and then declare bankruptcy?

Yeah, it may not be right, but the CC companies are way more evil than me.

Mark in San Diego said...

People work till 70 to pay back debt - Social Security and Medicare "saved" because they pay INTO the systems 5 more years, and die at 77 (statistical norm) - CHECK . . .Greenspans way of saving Social Security.

Anonymous said...

Doktaire said...
W will be known forever as the worst president in US history.
Just imagine if Gore had won, who thinks a vote for Nader was a bad idea now?

Dumbass, "I was voting with my conscience" bullshit, congratulations in making sure the person you least wanted to win, won, bravo

-----------------------------------

Here we go again.
You sound like such a whining bitch.

yugogur said...

Gore would have prevented the housing bubble just like Clinton prevented the dotcom bubble. He would also have figured out the 9-11 plans and personally stopped the hijackers at the airport

Anonymous said...

Damn! The lambs are cute ... and sure will be tasty.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I said this awhile ago.

Those professional market people could care less so long as there is action up or down. They depend on exploiting the difference between their knowledge and that of the regular joe.

So I'll add this: this bust is setting up to be truely epic. In fact, the misuse and abuse of the vaunted system the past few years may well be the gravest threat capitalism has ever faced. Quite simply the geniuses in their greed will break the trust of the public at-large. And the arithmatic for the public will be most of the reward to the boom went to a few while most of the bust went to everyone. Congrats, capitalists you're going to open the door wide for socialism. Afterall, look back at 1929 and the crash then. The public's trust in the system was broken and paved the way for the big government social programs.

Anonymous said...

WHY WE CAN'T TRSUT ANYTHING THE MSM SAYS PART 16627:


Bear's two funds are close to being shut down after suffering deep losses from investments backed by subprime mortgages.
Market watchers say now they're watching to see if problems like the ones at Bear Stearns (Charts, Fortune 500) start to crop up elsewhere.

"Some guys made bad bets so we may see some more sellers out there," said Dan Castro, managing director at GSC Group in New York. "There isn't going to be a flood of hedge funds liquidating, but other guys are having problems."


HUH? Why won't there be a flood Danny? And why doesn't this reporter ask the question? What makes anyone believe BS is the only one exposed. There are $100s of billions of subprime garbage out there. Yet good old Dan says nothing to worry about, nobody else will be royally fucked. Nope, that's it, one or two funds and all will be well.

Wasn't this also the same crowd of "analysts" and "experts" that kept saying subprime is contained a few months ago?

And yet with all this happening the DOW is up today. Strange days.

Tulsa Time said...

The whole thing was planned. Plan the SPP, Crash the system and viola!, you now have a new country (US, Canada, and Mexico) with a new Amero!

Now you have all their resources and a new money too! Print more!

K.W. - Southern Ca. said...

This is very true.

The greater population will have
to bear the burden of this debt.

There is no way most of these people will ever pay any appreciable amount of this
rapidly growing debt back.

I've read postings from people here
who still foolishly believe "this is someone else's problem".

Not true - we'll all (except the very wealthy) be hit with higher taxation, banking fees, utility fees, parking fees, etc.

The banks especially will put higher "management" fees in place rapidly as problems from the housing crisis spread through-out that industry.

The economy is interconnected, everything will be affected.

fish said...
Good luck collecting those debts when 15 -18 percent of the population goes belly up. Anyone involved with collection or prosecution of debtors might have a real short career.

Anonymous said...

Anyone here see the film "Maxed OUt"? Lots of interesting tidbits....i.e, MBNA was Bush's 2nd largest campaign contributor. Hmmm, let's see, now that the BK law has changed that means the debt collectors can keep harassing you FOREVER.

Anonymous said...

I think this post hits it on the head, especially with the transfer of wealth comment.

As people rush to buy their big flat screens with their housing money, they are trading away their money so that stock and bondholders can continue to get richer.

Its just a widening of then income disparity between rich and poor.

But I don't blame it on the government. I blame it on the sheeple. If people were'nt so lazy and expecting the government to take care of them no matter what, there wouldn't be this problem. Like taking risks without the fear of loss.

Not to mention most Americans have the math skills of a 4th grader.

TM said...

The joke is on the banking industry. People are just walking away from their debt obligations, and on a scale the banks hadn't anticipated.

Anonymous said...

>>>About that bankruptcy thing...anyone know if I can pay off my student loans (60K) with my credit cards and then declare bankruptcy?<<<

sure, pay it off with credit cards but why declare bankruptcy? cc debt is unsecured debt....just have no assets in your name and then go to battle with the sob's when they come at you. depending on what state you live in, the results will vary.....

if you try to walk on the government loan, they do have a lot of built in ability to come at you.

it you are wanting to do this right, then move to a debtor friendly state...then do your thing...and then move back........

Anonymous said...

>>>Anyone here see the film "Maxed OUt"? Lots of interesting tidbits....i.e, MBNA was Bush's 2nd largest campaign contributor. Hmmm, let's see, now that the BK law has changed that means the debt collectors can keep harassing you FOREVER.<<<<

not so really.....there are statutes of limitation which vary state to state......also all depends on what you are talking about here....not to mention the volumes of unpublished and published case law you can research to help your case ...debt collection is a big racket where they try to turn unsecured debt that they buy for nothing really, into secured debt by getting crooked judges to grant them judgements...the only trouble is almost all of these judgements they get are not worth the paper they are written on......if you know what to do about it....and most people don't unfortunately.....we as americans do not know our own laws nor do we know what has happened to us since the civil war, nor do we understand how these bogus courts we have now operate in this environment of color of law....

Shakster said...

Yup.

RiperDurian said...

Lamb kabobs mmmm. Marinate overnight in olive oil with LOTS of rosemary, some garlic, salt and pepper. Spit the tender cubes on skewers set em on the grill and prepare to feast!

Baaaaaaa Baaaaaaa.

Anonymous said...

it you are wanting to do this right, then move to a debtor friendly state...then do your thing...and then move back........

Unless you're doing this just for the state law you can't do that. If you've recently moved, under the new bankruptcy act the laws in your last state of residence will probably govern.

Actually I think the banks are taking it in the you-know-where because of the bill as it was written. While the intention may have been to try to force people to pay back more of their debt, the act makes bankruptcy an unattractive option for many people. Even more, it's actually impossible for people whose incomes are too high to qualify, but too low to cover their actual debt. This is one of the reasons, I think, that foreclosures are skyrocketing. Many people with ATMs and McMansions fall in the category described. Their only option is to walk away and leave the bank holding the bank. Before they would have filed for bankruptcy and postponed the date where the house was gone.

Anonymous said...

depression incoming

g said...

"The joke is on the banking industry. People are just walking away from their debt obligations, and on a scale the banks hadn't anticipated. "

I'm not so sure. I think they probably did anticipate it, but the CEO's figured by then they'd have millions stashed in offshore accounts and wouldn't give a flying f*ck if the bank fails or not.

In the end, like someone else said, the public is screwed with higher taxes and higher banking fees in the future.

Now they'll just inflate another bubble to fleece the rest of the sheep left standing. The only way this madness ever stops is if we go back to a currency BACKED by something and stop this worldwide leverage madness.

My personal hypothesis is for worsening series of fiat currency enabled boom-bust cycles that don't totally come home to roost with the "financial armageddon" many HPers postulate until around 2020.

But then, that's the ephemeral nature of financial crises. You simply don't know when they will hit. Could be tomorrow!

Anonymous said...

>>>My personal hypothesis is for worsening series of fiat currency enabled boom-bust cycles that don't totally come home to roost with the "financial armageddon" many HPers postulate until around 2020.<<<


possibly, but I think Hamilton said it best, in Federalist paper #28

http://tinyurl.com/yv7znq



...If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defence, which is paramount to all positive forms of government; and which, against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success, than against those of the rulers of an individual State....

its about time isn't it????

Anonymous said...

i wonder what would happen to the bottom lines of the banks if everyone decided not to pay their credit card debt......? is this the next bubble to pop???

Anonymous said...

let us not forget the state property tax bubble that has been created by the ever increasing inflated real estate prices. now with real estate pricing stagnating and reversing, as properties are bought, according to state laws, isn't it probable that the taxpayer can go down and challenge his or her property tax assessment as being over market...isn't it time for the reverse to be true now? they have lived on their 10 percent increases every two years for years...but now they must reverse this process....and it is by their own silly laws that they themselves created.......

borkafatty said...

I said this a long time ago on this here GOLB that this is all part oF The New World Order, and in the New World Order we have no room for a middle class: Yo can read it all here: in a nice PDF format

http://www.policestateplanning.com/

And the scary part of the whole read..is it is all coming to roost...and fast

anon666 said...

"And yet with all this happening the DOW is up today. Strange days."

The stock market is completely detached from the economic fundamentals.

A record number of companies are obtaining easy credit and buying back their own shares. This reduces the number of outstanding shares and drives their stock prices up. When this charade ends, J6P will again be left holding a bag of worthless shares. It's just another mechanism to transfer wealth. It seems they never run out of tricks.

vegas crash watcher said...

Banks and government are two sides to the same evil coin. I hope both get screwed in the oncoming deflation, defaulted loans for banks and ignored demands for taxation for government.
Why should I pay some cop's or teacher's or politician's pension for the rest of their lives?
I will arrange my affairs so I won't.

Anonymous said...

>>>"And yet with all this happening the DOW is up today. Strange days."

The stock market is completely detached from the economic fundamentals. <<<

its called the plunge protection team......with 1 trillion dollars to play with, they can influence the markets the way they want them to go..

but as there are laws of physics in this physical universe, there are monetary laws in this financial universe as well......they can delay things but they cannot do this indefinitely......such as it is , in the metals market...the prices of gold and silver have been driven down......and on purpose to make them look bad...but this too shall pass...

Anonymous said...

One of the Fed. Governors came out and said they lowered the interest rate after 9/11 to inflate the economy, and housing would go up. Just follow the money!
Who made money? The banks, the smart speculators, and the real estate industry. One realitor told me he was retiring in 2006 because the bubble was about to pop. He is now in S.E. Asia drinking Mai Tais.

Anonymous said...

"It's almost like they planned the whole thing"

No, the did plan the whole thing

borkafatty said...

He is now in S.E. Asia drinking Mai Tais.

------------

And most likely getting a message next to Ken Lay $ Whitey Bulger...

Time for a Revolution folks, before its to late.

Anonymous said...

speaking of credit card debt, isn't it true that the banks play derivative games with credit card debt? i think they bundle it up in 100k face value increments and sell them to investers....this is why when you ask them to show you the original contract document they never will.....because they have done things with this contract, that are not in your best interest and they are making money on your signature without your knowledge......

Anonymous said...

And most likely getting a message next to Ken Lay $ Whitey Bulger...



ken lay was just a face....he wasn't the real mover and shaker behind that company and none of the other twits that they hauled into court were either......

the real power behind enron was never revealed.......all anyone had to do is follow and trace where the money went and so far they have never done this and i ask why is that??? scared of someone perhaps??? i can tell you that money disappeared into new york...on that you can be sure...and i think they ought to go get it and return it to its rightful owners.....all those people who got screwed out of their life savings........

Anonymous said...

It's almost like they planned the whole thing.


1. Greenspam tells people they need to go with the new and exciting exotic stuff

2. The sheeple are led to believe that debt is wealth

3. Meanwhile in the shadows, we have the banking lobby writing the new bankruptcy law

4. Folks, we have been hosed. The greatest transfer of wealth the world has ever seen. CHECK!
====================

What a crock of crap you've cooked up this time.

The only way your 1-4 scenario could be possible is if the American people:
Took their eye off the ball completely
Didn't think for themselves
Believed everything spewed at them by bias jerks & liars
Were distracted by meaningless crap like TV shows & Paris Hilton perversions

That's the only possible..............
aaaahhhhhh, crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:-)

We're All Freaking Doomed! said...

Yes, another of us has figured it out. Too bad the masses still have no clue.


Tulsa Time said...

The whole thing was planned. Plan the SPP, Crash the system and viola!, you now have a new country (US, Canada, and Mexico) with a new Amero!

Now you have all their resources and a new money too! Print more!

June 21, 2007 3:39 PM

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

Anonymous said...
Off the housing Bubble for a second......
Most sheep are smarter and cuter
than most people. The problem is
that they don't THINK like most people. They don't run since the very idea of being murdered doesn't enter their non-evil minds.

Look up "vegetarian." It's in your dictionary, if you have one.

Turn off Silence of The Lambs because you are creeping me out. I'm a member of PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals, and let me tell you there is nothing like a lamb chop done just right with a wonderful sauce.

SP{ECTRE of Deflation said...

Adam said:

"Uh, do ya' think? No shitze, Sherlock. Bush and cronies saw problems coming down the road"

Problems coming down the road? Hell, they paved the road for the problems to ride in on.

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

Anonymous said...
My favorite form of entertainment for the past six years?

Sitting back and watching the American people get more and more stupid by the day!!!!

The best part of it?

IT'S FREE!!!!

The best and truest things in life always are.

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

Anonymous said...
>>>> SPECTRE of Deflation said...

It's almost like they planned the whole thing.

1. Greenspam tells people they need to go with the new and exciting exotic stuff instead of the old boring conventional mortgage, and the sheeple go for it. CHECK!

2. The sheeple are led to believe that debt is wealth by borrowing against their homes. Nobody bothers to tell them, and they are too stupid to know, that should the price of the home go down the debt still remains and the so called housing wealth is voporized. CHECK!

3. Meanwhile in the shadows, we have the banking lobby writing the new bankruptcy law making it much harder, if not impossible, for consumers to get a second chance thereby making them life long debt slaves. CHECK!

4. Folks, we have been hosed. The greatest transfer of wealth the world has ever seen. CHECK! <<<<


naw!!! ya think?????

I think and therefore I write. You to this point have done neither.

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

yugogur said...
Gore would have prevented the housing bubble just like Clinton prevented the dotcom bubble. He would also have figured out the 9-11 plans and personally stopped the hijackers at the airport

Folks, we need to forget about the old labels and realize that it's most definitely the elites against everyone else. I'm talking about BOTH Political Parties. All their pockets are being lined while this country goes to Hell in a handbasket. Do you really see either Party representing the Constitution and the rule of law?

SPECTRE of Deflation said...

Anonymous said...
i wonder what would happen to the bottom lines of the banks if everyone decided not to pay their credit card debt......? is this the next bubble to pop???

believe it or not I read an article this week concerning this issue. People are paying their Credit Cards while foregoing a mortgage payment. It makes sense because these sheeple now depend on Credit Cards to carry their over spending, [negative savings rate], now that the Housing ATM has been turned off.

Anonymous said...

Next stop: destroy the Constitution and our desire for freedom and capitalism.

Socialism here we come!