May 01, 2007


The mainstream media and our blow-hard congressmen are portraying people losing their homes to foreclosure as "victims" of "predatory lenders".

I'm sorry, who was it that signed the paperwork?

Should we consider any consenting adult who freely enters into a contractual agreement a "victim" if things don't turn out how they planned?


Anonymous said...

do we have to wipe their asses too?

Anonymous said...

Would they have been victims of predatory lenders if their house prices had gone up instead?

Anonymous said...

Give me a taxpayer funded bailout or I shoot the kitty!

Frank said...

This is like divorcees who try to take half of their husband's money on the premise that "I was married to him and therefore contributed to his success."

In the real world, a marriage or relationship is a HINDRANCE to a man's business!!! I love my fiance with all my heart, but I will not deny that I made more money when I was single and could devote all of my time to my business.

But, as long as the liberal courts allow this handout "victim" mentality to continue, it will continue.

The "victim" mentality amongst ego-centric homedebtors who bought McMansions out of vanity and now can't make the payments is just the same.

john said...

Gotta pay for the campaign money from the banks.

Anonymous said...

All the greedy dummies deserve what they are getting. But there are alot of other people who just got plain taken. So there is a problem here. As we've all learned many people are just too trusting, naive and do not understand that the other parties at the table (or back at the realtor/mortgage broker's office) do not have to discharge any duty with you're best interests, despite the fact that an attorney is present, that several legal hoops must be jumped through to safeguard the transaction and DESPITE the fact that you're RE AGENT HAS A FIDUCIARY DUTY TO YOU.

The players in the modern system just care about getting paid & moving on to the next chump.


Then we require that all papers be sent to the buyer a week prior to closing for legal review with the encouragement that they retain their own LEGAL COUNSEL to interpret the documents.

We have a legal system and an RE transactional system tthat is being gamed by a bunch of liars that are praying upon the ignorant masses our defunct education system is producing. If we do not put some new checks & balances in place then we will continue to be open to this sort of financial disaster that is unfolding before our very eyes.

House of Cards said...

Centex 4Q Profit Falls 49 Percent
Monday April 30, 4:29 pm ET
Centex 4Q Profit Drops on Sluggish Home Closings in Soft Housing Market

DALLAS (AP) -- Homebuilder Centex Corp. said Monday its fiscal fourth-quarter profit fell 49 percent due to a drop in home closings, in what the company called one of the most difficult housing markets in 25 years.

For the quarter ended March 31, net income fell to $198.9 million, or $1.60 per share, from $391.8 million, or $3.04 per share, in the prior-year quarter.

The company reported a loss from continuing operations of $22.3 million, or 18 cents per share.

Analysts polled by Thomson Financial expected a loss of 3 cents per share.

Revenue dropped 11 percent to $3.67 billion from $4.13 billion in the fourth quarter of 2006. Analysts expected revenue of $3.34 billion.

Revenue from homebuilding fell 12 percent to $3.52 billion. The company said the revenue drop was a result of a 14 percent year-over-year decline in home closings.

For the year, profit fell 79 percent to $268.4 million, or $2.16 per share, from $1.29 billion, or $9.71 per share, in 2006. Revenue dipped 7 percent to $12.01 billion from $12.85 billion.

Centex shares dipped $1.25, or 2.7 percent, to close at $44.77 on the New York Stock Exchange.

Mort said...

You will participate in the bubble or you will be punished many times over.

madmonkey said...

Losing money on investments is not allowed in America.

Photographer shooting a picture of a foreclosed FB for a media puff piece of foreclosed victims: "Okay now sit at the kitchen table and don't smile, look off into the distance and look sad, turn that way I don't want the plasma TV in the background, do you have any bills that you can put in front of you on the table." Click. Okay now you are going to be on the front page.

Doktaire said...

Nope, you must take responsibility for yourself. If things work out well, you get the benefits, if not you have to deal with the consequences. I can't think of many issues that are balcker or whiter than this one. File for bankruptcy, get a job, rent, and then in 7 years see if you have learned any lessons. The only "good" thing about housing debt is that, at least, it is secured against something of value (albeit) decreasing. The banks took a risk aswell, and it is quite right they should have to suck it up and eat the loss too. In a free market, things can go badly aswell, in fact I think for the system to work well, we need bad periods to keep everyone acting responsibly.

Anonymous said...

You evil, heartless bastards.

The Man gave me too much money. My civil rights got violated.

Anonymous said...

I'm a victim!

I have genital warts!

chris g said...

That's why you get this person called a "lawyer" (pronounced LOY-YUHR), sometimes called an "attorney" in some circles, to look over your paperwork and sit with you at the closing so that you are not fed a bag of gas for the biggest purchase of your entire fricking life.

I saw an article where the guy mentioned he was "suspicious" that the sellers of the house didn't want any attorneys at the closing, but he signed anyway, and now he is crying that he is the victim. Boo flippin' hoo.

borkafatty said...

Victims my ass...suckers is mor like it!

Anonymous said...

The Democratic banking bailout in the name of the homedebtors will be akin to the Republican drug plan in the name of the seniors (but really opened up the Treasury for plundering by big pharma.) Everythings being done for the good of the people while the dollar, what everyone trades in, gets taken out back the wood shed for a beatdown each time. Whoring out the dollar can only be done so long until people no longer believe in it as a conveyance of value. Right now we're cashing in on the hardwork and accomplishments of our ancestors.

Anonymous said...

I love the picture. What a cutie!!!!

Anonymous said...

The media are starting on the sob stories of Innocent Victims (TM) and Their Children, The Children, The Children being put out on the street.

Here Comes The Bailout --
The Fix Is In!

Danielle said...

The key words you said them FRANK:

"In the real world."

Yes in the real world, couples hook up and have kids. Both must sacrifice. Having babies affected my body, in fact having babies slowed down my career which was way more lucrative than my husband's.

If I end up having to stay home and he leaves me for some younger chick, you can sure bet that I'll be doing whatever it takes to get my FAIR share.

Takes TWO to tango.

Paul E. Math said...

'Victims' should go after the perpetrators. If I was suckered into investing in some crazy, non-existent, get-rick-quick scheme I wouldn't expect the government to bail me out. I would go after the fraudster. So why don't these people? And why is anyone entertaining this notion at all? I'm completely bewildered by this.

I'm also bewildered by this whole 'losing my home' thing. If you have a mortgage on your home then it's not really yours, is it? People need to understand this. And anyway, being foreclosed upon just puts you in the same situation as anyone who rents - I'll tell you first-hand, renting is quite pleasant.

Why is there so much weeping and sobbing about this? Have these people no shame? It's beneath their dignity to rent their home but they are just fine with bawling openly for any camera that will film them. I'm ashamed to be human at times like these.

Hayley said...

Frank on behalf of women everywhere I'd like to congratulate you on your marriage - we all take great comfort in the fact that you'll soon be off the market along with most of the housing inventory in America.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

The question should be what is best for the general welfare now?

Is it better to let the bad debtors (and the bagholder investors who hold the CDOs that collectively carry the risk in those notes) eat the loss?

Or is it better to do what we can to stabilize the housing market and slow walk the unfolding meltdown?

I don't know the answer to those questions, but I think they are the right questions.

The debtors and bag holders are all just gamblers who bet wrongly. The real criminals here are those in the REIC who did everything possible to make the deals happen but held on to none of the risk.

To recap, I think our response as a society should not be based on how deserving the people involved in the mess are. Our response should be strictly based on what will benefit the largest number of people going forward.

David Lereah's Conscience

SeattleMoose said...

Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY of people who bit off way more than they could afford?

Did someone put a gun to your head and force you do something financially stupid, or are YOU just stupid?

Anonymous said...

There's a small group of these people that are victims (the very old), but the rest of them were in it for the money. People like to potray the poor folk as being dumb and lazy, but they are quite conniving. An example is what they do to Walmart. They go to Big Lots and either purchase or steal goods such as draperies that Walmart decided they couldn't sell and whole-saled out to Big Lots on the cheap. They tear off the Big Lots stickers, and then return the merchandise to Walmart for a full price refund, claiming that they don't have a receipt. These are you same poor people that now have no idea of what kind of mortgage they signed for...

devestment said...

A slap in the face to responsible citizens and a reward for irresponsible behaviour. This is not good government.

Why won't government reward good practices and strengthen America by strengthening its people?

Anonymous said...

Casey Serin posted then deleted the following, but bloglines cache preserved it:

After Foreclosure: Living in a Car like Anya Peters?

By Casey Serin on goals

I have to come up with 2 months of rent money plus May’s payment by tomorrow. And there is even talk of pre-paying 2 months in advance if we are to stay here. Even though I don’t think my sister-in-law is going to kick me out, there is always that chance. The thought [...]

Anonymous said...

OK, so shoot the FBs but leave the little kitty alone. He hasn't done anything but stand there and look cute....

Anonymous said...

>> but I will not deny that I made more money when I was single and could devote all of my time to my business.

Let me guess: you tombstone is going to say "I wish I had spent more time at the office..."

Anonymous said...

"In the real world, a marriage or relationship is a HINDRANCE to a man's business!!! I love my fiance with all my heart, but I will not deny that I made more money when I was single and could devote all of my time to my business.

Man, those words are SO TRUE!!!

Anonymous said...


JAFO said...

What is this "personal responsibility" you speak of? I'm not familiar with that term. BTW, cutest photo ever on this blog. First time my wife has actually shown any interest in what I am reading on the net.


Anonymous said...

Victims?? Is that what we're supposed to call people with horrible credit, no money and no common sense who NEVER should have purchased an overpriced sh%tbox to begin with? The democrats are really desperate for votes aren't they?

Anonymous said...

I want to here from the banking and lending institutions. Do they think that the borrowers were the victims? If so, Then the banks and the lending institutions should be willing to eat the loss, with no bailout.

Anonymous said...

Good question Keith.

Here's another thought: A lot of people who signed onto these loans and got caught last year admitted that it was, in fact, THEIR OWN MISTAKE.

With the good ol'boys politicians yammering about victims, how long do you think that will last?

In a few months, EVERYBODY who willingly signed onto a stupid loan is going to be claiming they were tricked/victimized.

These politicians are total scumbags. They should all be voted out of office. All they want is to keep the high housing cost party going. They won't be happy til every American is on the verge of foreclosure buying an overpriced house.

Just keep those prices at nosebleed level!

FHA is going to offer 0% downpayments to first time buyers.

The American taxpayer as SUBPRIME LENDER. That's how much they care about you - they want to take your money and THROW IT DOWN THE DRAIN ON STUPID HOMEBUYERS.

But health care and education- no way!!

Get the gov't. OUT of housing. Completely. Right NOW.

WiseRenter said...

"I'm sorry, who was it that signed the paperwork?"


I'm sorry, who was it that also lied about their income?

Frank said...

Sorry, but there's a simple lesson to be learned here:

Anyone who couldn't afford a few hundred bucks to have a laywer review the contracts has no business buying a house in the first place. (Or anyone who was too stupid to not have a lawyer, for that matter.)

Also, I see there are a few predatory women out there posting on this thread who are planning in advance to ass-rape their future ex-husbands in divorce court. Thank God for prenups and offshore asset trusts. I suppose my rule applies here too: Any man who marries an American woman without an iron-clad prenup and a fortress of asset protection deserves to lose it all.

In the meantime, having just moved away from Scottsdale, Arizona, the epitome of this nonsense, here are my thoughts on that soon-to-be ghost town:

Anyone who has gone out in NY or LA knows that Scottsdale doesn’t even begin to come close. But, most importantly, whatever nightlife Scottsdale once had has seemed to vanish and the glory days are now over.

I moved to Scottsdale seven years ago. Why? Because I had visited the Phoenix area and was impressed with the Downtown Scottsdale nightlife. I packed my bags and moved and, for the first couple of years, I loved it. I was a single, young professional in my late 20s, and was thrilled to be able to go out four or five nights a week and meet other like-minded young professionals.

Fast forward a few years. The housing boom hit. The once-normal Scottsdale professional crowd was replaced by Botox-infested phonies who took the town over like a pack of roof rats with the hope of making easy money on real estate. Prices went up. The phonies took out home equity lines of credit and bought BMWs, Escalades and breast implants, and blew tons of money in the bars and clubs every night. The town was jumping and word of Scottsdale’s nightlife began to spread.

The dark side in all of this is that “cashing out equity” in your home really means you’re just taking out a line of credit; even credit cards are a better deal than the rip-off home equity lines. Those lines have to be paid back, with lots of interest.

Now here we are in 2007. The housing boom is over, the decline has begun and not surprisingly, Scottsdale’s fabled nightlife is gone. It’s turned into a glorified college scene. And the normal people are all gone because, sorry, we young professionals in our late 20s and 30s don’t want to feel like we’re going to a frat house kegger.

Here’s what happened: The Scottsdale phonies that bought houses from 2004-2006 on those teaser interest-only loans were living the high life while enjoying the introductory $1,000 mortgage payments. Now that those payments are doubling and tripling, those who were already living paycheck-to-paycheck are getting wiped out. There’s no more disposable income to waste on clubbing, and Old Town Scottsdale is starting to look more like a ghost town at night. Well, except for all those college kids who are partying on mom and dad’s money.

Maybe this crash will reset things and Scottsdale will go back to normal. I doubt it though. I think the Scottsdale uniform of untucked striped shirts with baggy jeans on men — along with a wallet full of maxed-out credit cards — is here to stay. Scottsdale is way too deep in debt to recover in the foreseeable future, and the money has stopped moving in. The days when Scottsdale nightlife had any class are long gone.

Anonymous said...

I bet there's a lot of borrowers who put the creative loan product in their pet's name...

a.creampuff said...

Fake appraisals + other scams + forced move for a job = victim.

At least some people got snookered, but it's probably safe to say "Caveat Emptor"...

Hayley said...

Participating in a relationship is hinderance to anyone's business success (and in my opinion infinitely more so to women, which IMO is largely why they have less energy to be successful).

But anyway, solutions are at hand for you guys. In short, you need get a vasectomy (the rate of return on progeny is horrible from what I hear), move Vegas, pay for sex and for people to be your friends and THEN you can devote all your business.

That's what life's about isn't it?

PS I'd love to hear from Frank's fiance about all the self sacrifice he's been making on her behalf...Walks in the door, starts fixing dinner, is one step ahead of her thinking about what needs to be done when...

As Keith would say: ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,



Hayley said...

I said it before and I'll say it again, average people should not have to play caveat emptor with an institution with the power and leverage of the financial services industry.

I am in no way in favor of a bail out, but demonizing the borrowers (we'll leave out the speculators entirely here) is never going to prevent this from happening in the future.

Anonymous said...

posted: April 30, 2007 10:49 PM

Honestly, your on the right track.

Anonymous said...

anon at May 01, 2007 4:25 AM

Yes. Its insulting to call people stupid. It's better to call them a victim. That way, they feel better about themselves.

I think we need more day care centers...for adults.

Anonymous said...

I am against foreclosing on hundreds of thousands of families. Freeze the mortgages and allow them to stay in there homes.

We'll have a bigger problem if these massive number of foreclosures take place.

The bigger picture in all this is the financial system is falling apart. If we dont address this crisis then we are fools.

Anonymous said...

This subject goes back to a question Kieth has posted since the beginning of HP - Will the internet replace real estate clerks?
I posted back then - F@ck the clerks, bring a lawyer.
They are the worst scum on the face of the earth until you meet a dirtbag banker, broker or clerk who tries to screw you.

Anonymous said...

These are the same debt zombies that paid any price to get in eventhough most couldn't make the first few mtg payments. Kick them the frig out in the streets.
Damn house prices need to drop 50% in bubble markets.

Stephen said...

"To recap, I think our response as a society should not be based on how deserving the people involved in the mess are. Our response should be strictly based on what will benefit the largest number of people going forward."

Whoa there. The "greatest good for the greatest number" is probably not such a hot basis for ethics (utilitarianism) -- especially when you have bureaucrats and double-digit IQ elected officials deciding what the greatest good for the greatest number is.

Utilitarianism leads to things like sacraficing the happines of one person to further the happinness of others, and it can lead to unintended consequences down the road that destroy people's happiness anyway (such as economic devistation), or it can prevent good things from happening (like teaching people a valuable lesson about real estate speculation).

Better to let things wash out naturally, and focus on the good that comes from the rewards that will be reaped by those who prize fiscal responsibility and self-control; don't take that reward away from them for the sake of of the homedebtors. Let the greedy and ignorant realize a good as well, through the lessons they will learn.

It's good that you are thinking this through like a philosopher. Just be wqary of whose lead you follow. Bentham and Mill are probably not great choices, interesting and superficially compelling as they may be.

Anonymous said...

cat burglar

Anonymous said...

when we used to have a big party at college, we'd wake up the next morning with empty wallets and throbbing heads and joke about what happened while we tried to clean up the mess

we did NOT get together and blame the guy who brought the beer

we did it to ourselves, and we paid the price

so should the "me too" buyers of overpriced bricks and sticks, who spent too much time watching HGTV on their new "same as cash" big screen televisions

what's that line again?

privatize the profits, socialize the risks

Anonymous said...

party analogy above:

don't blame the realtors, mortgage brokers, title companies, banks, greenspan, bush, clinton, perot, gore, halliburton, or mickey mouse

they just brought the beer, music and cups

you wanted the house
you called them
you signed the documents
you promised to pay for it

now get out of my checkbook or let me live in 'your' house!

JAFO said...

EGAD !! Freeze thier mortgages and allow these idiots to remain in thier homes. Hold that thought. Wait, because I'm going out to buy a giant house on an option ARM, much more than I need or can afford. Then please freeze my mortgage at the teaser rate and allow me to stay in my home. Its the perfect crime.


Anonymous said...

I'd be very disappointed of any bailouts. If you bailout the owner you also bail out the lender and the whole industry.
I've waited with my wife and small boy for several years and finally prices are coming down. It's depressing that my being responsible would be punished while those who "had to Have" a home and got over their heads are rewareded

Joey in NH

Bill said...

Here's the bottom line: It DOESN'T MATTER if you innocently made an "investment" mistake with real estate or you stupidly took out a toxic mortgage or even if someone swindled you. It's NOT ME that should be financing your way out. It's called personal responsibility.

Geeeee said...

There has to be some complicity on the parts of the leaders who allowed the bubble to inflate without taking some strong monetary action (say a 200 basis point hike in early 04 instead of the little teeny hikes no one felt) to curb it. Our leaders should understand and be familiar with populations' natural tendency to towards feeding into financial manias and putting themselves....

Oh wait, WTF am I saying, that our government could actually be something other than power hungry, lecherous bastards? that they actually CARE about the people? How silly of me ;)

Anonymous said...

those golden cats seem to be the smartest and friendliest, still gets a laugh

Anonymous said...

but in scottsdale if the houses fall to depression era prices or 90 percent down, they still eat grapefruit!!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:28-

The time to address this crisis was 6 years ago as it was clearly an accident waiting to happen. Also OK would have been 5 years ago, 4 years ago, heck even 3 years ago would've been ok.

But NOW??!!! No way. Now it's got to unfold and we've got to clean up afterwards.

Let all the houses foreclose. Let the prices drop FAST and FAR. Fast enough and far enough so that people with ready cash can swoop in and buy these homes and have them cash flow at fair rent prices for the foreclosed FB's to move into.

It is absolutely not fair to drop this catastrophe on the heads of taxpayers. All of these politicians , banks, and lenders and borrowers knew EXACTLY what kind of fire they were playing with.

They had their party, let them deal with it now. Leave me out of it.

concerned said...

There will be no bailout......basically because it is not economically feasable to do so.....

There is lots of talk from a lot of politicians....but they are simply fishing for votes.

Giving 20-100 bilion dollars to a bailout program, where the damage is in the like trying to put out a house fire with a water just ain't gonna work. And the poltiticians/Fed/leading government economists know this.

Anonymous said...

I made an investment at a blackjack table last year in Vegas and lost thousands of dollars. Woe is me. I should be bailed out too. I'm a victim.

Seriously though, nobody should be bailed out! It's the part of the game of life commonly refered to as "risk".

So many people in this country think they're a victim. Then the government validates their stance by bailing them out.


Anonymous said...

Whatever happened to providing proof of income and 20% down.

If the purchaser had a 20% vested interest, you can be damn sure they're not going to want to lose it.