April 13, 2007

Ah, gotta love trolls. They really don't know just how stupid they sound (yet). But ohhhhh, will they...

Have at it HP'ers. Have fun... And how long until renters are seen as the geniuses during this meltdown, and screwed homedebtors as the dumbest people on the street?


You see out in the real world anyone who is a renter past the age of 30 is a loser. Anyone who drives a 10 year old Honda like you idiots is a loser.

So keep talking about 50% crashes, great depressions, black helicopters and spanking it to stories of subprime foreclosures. That's about as much action as you'll ever get.

85 comments:

Anonymous said...

i have a 10 year old honda and rent ... that honda is the best value ever, and will last another 5 years at least. No car payments for over 6 years now ... yeah, i'm such a loser :)

SPECTRE of Deflation. said...

The grammer says it all. The poster is too stupid to know the difference between singular and plural when using nouns and verbs, and yet, we are supposed to take the post seriously.

"It's hard to get a man to understand something when his job depends on him not understanding"

Anonymous said...

There is an astounding ammount of money out there. I have never seen so many truly rich people. This bust aint gunna happen. You are wasting your time publishing this blog. Get a life.

Anonymous said...

Debt is wealth!

Eric said...

I have a 9 year old Nissan and a 7 year old Ford that I OWN. Yes, no car payments. I rent my condo for $750 a month; the moron above me bought for $150,000, and now nearly $30,000 in the hole per zillow.com. I bet her payment (mortgage, taxes, insurance, & HOA fee)is nearly 3 times what my rent is.

Yeah, I'm SUCH a fool!

-Dragasoni-

guy n. cognito said...

my landlord's mortgage interest is higher than my rent... and the unit next door was just put on the rental market for even cheaper than what i pay... no rent increases for a lonnnnnng time :)

oh yeah, the roof leaked a little and stained the ceiling but i don't give a d*mn! hey landlord, pay to have it repaired if you expect to sell this place out from under me or rent to another person! AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!

RoRoYoYo said...

As a mortgage broker for nearly 4 years, I am ear-deep in imbeciles (clients, co-workers, associates, etc.) and can't help but be simultaneously amused and horrified at what is just 'round the corner.

Add to it that I am in the NYC/Long Island area (think Growing Up Gotti Mortgage LLC.) and you can only imagine the idiocy I have to stomach on a daily basis.

Just a tip to prospective purchasers:
(In addition to the obvious "DON'T BUY"!!!):
If your "Mortgage Specialist" lives with their parents and leases a $90k Mercedes or just purchased 3 homes at approx. 140 ltv each (creative finance, mortgage fraud, whatever), he's probably not the guy you want to "find your perfect loan".

I'm thinking healthcare industry for future employment. Boomers are getting old...

Jay frm NH said...

I am just about 30 years old. Still living with the parents.. moving into an apartment for two years and then scooping up a place. I dont care what people think.. i know when something is way over priced.. Life is a marathon and not a sprint... Keep up the great work HP! I've been reading this blog for a long time.. all will fall apart soon

Anonymous said...

I rent and drive paid off Corolla.
I am a looser. Always want to be # 2.
LOL.

Batman said...

That troll's attitude is actually the mainstream view...and it's exactly why we're gonna get our asses handed to us by Asia.

Cars are an expense anybody with a brain has figured out that their moterboat, Sea-doo, marble countertop, oversized hummer, or other bullshit moneywasting toy is not an investment.

Smart people prepare for when the Chinese come and buy our entire country and we willingly sell it to them.

txotxete said...

Wait!

I have an idea to save the FBs!

Let's impose a moratorium on foreclosures, let's print out more money to make the banks/investors whole, let's print some more to allow the FBs catch up!

Everybody wins!

Oh, yeah, $5 = EUR1.... Unleaded Gas $6.35/gallon.... Trip to Walmart $470/groceries...

-------

Amazing the stupidity of the "solutions" being thrown around....

Disclosure, I am only long two things: Gold and Ammunition

Anonymous said...

Just representative of the prevailing notion that being in debt is great.

Renting does make sense right now for a lot of people. We get the last laugh as we watch the overpriced mcmansion dwellers seeing their equity disappear.

Owning that used car sounds better to me than owning an overpriced, depreciating vehicle that one ends up "upside down" on. I guess the troll probably thinks that paying 20K for a vehicle (overpriced to begin with) that loses 60% of its value in four years is great. The only dumber thing is leasing a car.

I bet the troll is the first one at WalMart on Saturday to drop some charges on the ole credit card.

Following the herd can be dangerous to one's financial health. As for housing, the music has stopped...And I guess the troll hasn't read about upper income and alt A folks having their home auctioned off at the courthouse. Defaults are spreading.

Hey, good on you, anon, for having that Honda. Those are good cars, for one, and not having a car payment is even better. That gives you money to invest or do whatever with while the others are juggling the car payment and credit cards. I guess the troll would rather be in debt for a car so he can try and impress someone at a red light.

The troll hath swallowed Orwell's 1984 slogan-Freedom Is Slavery-that is, a preference for economic slavery.

Anonymous said...

AL-QWEEFER,

You're off base here hombre.

Whether or not renting past the age of 30 is prudent or not isn't the point. Perception is reality. The perception for the vast majority of people is that renter = loser. Sorry to burst your bubble (no pun intended) but that's the way it is.

Take my wife for example. I had to beg and plead for her to agree to rent after we sold our house and relocated. And the deal was fine we'll rent but only for a year and it has to be a house, can't be an apartment. We found a hell of a house - built in 1890, renovated, huge yard backing onto a creek and only a mile from great nightlife, shopping, etc, all for under $1900 a month. Same house to buy would be in the $600,000 neighborhood and we'd be paying double that in mortgage/ownership costs. So she's changed her tune and realizes renting ain't so bad after all. But man I'll tell you it was a tough sell and I have a feeling that even with all that at some point - when we have our first kid I think - she'll still want to buy the house for $600K. She's made it quite clear she doesn't want to raise kids in a rental.

She's not a bad person. She's not stupid. She's not a REIC shill. She does however live in 21st century America where renting is seen as 2nd class citizenship. And unlike me she doesn't obsessively track prices, foreclosue rates, inventory and all that to get a real idea of the state of the market. All she knows is what she's been fed all her adult life: buying is good, renting is throwing money out the window and is for poor people.

So relax.

Anonymous said...

you renters missed out on all the action during the bubble - why didn't your great theories tell you to jump in and get rich while the gettin' was good????
and now you're the only folks with 2 spare nickels to rub together - so that means Schumer/Hillary/Dodd are gonna be on your doorstep
with jackboots to force you to fund the bailout.
you lost on the upswing and you're gonna lose on the downswing... great
theory you got there...
face it - the truth hurts, suckers...

Anonymous said...

I am an idiot!!!

I sold my home here in San Diego in late 04, I now rent a townhome on a golf course with a (great landlord). I drive a '96 Chevy pickup, my wife a '03 350z, both paid for! Three major credit cards, one paid off, one regularly used, the other for travel.
No kids, no luxury anything (i.e. Rolex, coach, Mercedes...) We want....but don't need, there is a difference!
Life is sweet, we're just sittin back waiting for the carnage!

Yes, I am an idiot!

Anonymous said...

From Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL1470530620070314?src=031407_1512_DOUBLEFEATURE_mortgage_troubles&pageNumber=1

Kia_10yr_warrenty said...

I have a new Kia, Payments are reasonable, and it is warrantied for 10 yrs, match that GM,ford...What's that silence I hear?

LoneLibertarian said...

7 year old toyota camry, runs great, 28 mpg. I rent a house that was fully remodeled in 2006 for less than half what it would cost me to buy.

I toss the rest of my cash into my stock portfolio which has been doing me better than 20% returns over the last 5 years.

And unlike people who believe that debt is wealth, I'M LIQUID. I'm so liquid they call me aquaman.

Have fun with your debt load pal.

LongTimeLurker said...

I read that comment and it brought me out of lurker darkness.

Ah how much simpler life is when I rent. I can move at will, call the property manager to fix anything and its done when I get home. I look out my windows at a beautiful landscape cared for by a team of professional landscapers. I have a 50m pool, 12 person spa, 1000 sq ft gym within 300 ft of my front door and all maintained by someone else! Plus my sewer, garbage, water, paint, roof repair, gutter cleaning, pest control, concierge, and package acceptance are all included! And they even deliver and pick-up my dry cleaning and wrap my christmas gifts if I ask!

And all for approx. a third of the cost to mortgage the same place (but them I'd have to pay Mello-Roos and HOA dues on top of the mortagage plus all those pesky city services.)

I am such a loser renter. I wish I could be cleaning my rain gutters this weekend too.

Ft Lauderdale said...

I love being a debt free loser personally, little fear of job loss, well funded retirement account...wait though, no designer handbags? no 1000 dollar shoes??? ok, I see the light, my life thus far has been meaningless...

Mark in San Diego said...

I have an 11 year old Vette (paid with cash) and am now 56 and rent with the proceeds of the sale of my house and rental property in 2005/6. When I was growing up in the midwest, the very rich in our town did not drive Cadilacs, but Fords, and kept a low profile (think Warren Buffet). . .it was the "credit card heaven" people who needed to impress. . .I find the same here in SD - the jokers in our building who have Porche's all are living way above their means. The "old farts" like me drive older Honda's but have well over a million in their investment accounts.

Mort said...

The flippin' troll is probably right. Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow the money won't be worth jack. The only problem he has is that he'll probably be foreclosed and evicted before wages catch up. It makes me sick that the government gave away trillion$ and I didn't get any of it. Get ready for a crime wave if there is a bailout, because honest folks are getting fed up with this crap.

David's Mom (crying) said...

Hey, Is that The Corrupt David Lereah?

Anonymous said...

I rent and have a 5 year old JEEP (small one sorry it still snows here). I'm over 40! I go and do whatever I want (if I can afford it) no debts, no kidding - free as a bird, saved money - so when I lost a job 2 1/2 years ago, I said: "oh really what's my severance" instead of: "Oh God how will I my mortgage?" - Buy an abacus: Payment x term = why banks have money...

burn baby burn said...

I rent a lovely 1 bedroom apartment of the 12 floor over looking a country club. I love walking out on to the balcony to yell "Four" and watch all the golfers duck. O good time and cheap entertainment. All utilities are paid and my total rent is 858 a month. I have a 95 Mazda protégé that gets 32 mph and was paid off years ago. Man I am such a dumb loser!

Anonymous said...

you are simply the mirror image of David Lereah...
you thought you saw the top of the bubble in 2002 - so you didn't buy, and missed some sweet deals...
you thought you saw the top in 2003 - so you stayed out and missed more sweet deals...
you thought you saw the top in 2004 - ditto...
you thought you saw the top in 2005 - when the subprime fraud possibilities were just taking off... etc...
and now we have the top and we can watch Lereah call bottom for the next 4 years - mirror image...
all your bubble theory does is keep you broke and out of the action...
it will be useless until it tells you WHEN to GET IN and WHEN to GET OUT...
you need to study Kiyosaki - he TOLD you when to get in and when to get out - and he was RIGHT... ( note: he advised getting out of housing at least a year ago... )

Pat's Steak said...

My reason to rent = freedom.

I've lived in many places and I enjoy the freedom to leave and move when a better opportunity presents itself.

I lived in SF, and when the bottom fell out (2000-2002) and I found work on the east coast, it was pretty damn easy to move. Sold my crap and jumped in the car. Didn't have to dick around for months selling a house / condo.

There are places like San Fran and New York where MANY people of all ages rent because they don't have a spare $2 million for a 800 sf. flat.

I'm willing to pay the renter's price for the freedom I get in return.

Hey home debtor, now that the bubble is hissing, can you uproot and move if you had to??? Didn't think so.

keith said...

FYI I have a '97 lexus sitting in storage (I haven't driven in a year and a half living in UK now), have rented (for a fraction of the cost of owning) since I sold my place at the peak in 2005, and can't tell you the sense of freedom having a paid off car and NOT having a massive mortgage on a depreciating asset gives you.

Debt = Slavery. No Debt = Freedom.

Pretty easy to understand. REALLY easy to understand when the sh*t hits the fan and you're out of work or the economy goes south.

Renters are positioned perfectly for globalization. We can move on a whim for a better job. Plus we have massive cash flow savings by renting vs. owning, so we build up this thing called savings that Americans no longer understand.

Renters, rejoice, for ye have inherited the world. What was black is now white, up is now down. And renting is now so much smarter than owning.

Check out the title link in this post too - great article on this subject

Anonymous said...

renters who think you are free might take a look at your rental agreement -
in california, my 12-mo. rental agreements made me responsible for the entire years rent pretty much regardless of what happened... whether this is a national standard, and how much it is enforced, I don't know -
but 12 x 2 or 3k is a chunk of money anyway you cut it...

Serin's Book Deal said...

See Keith, It's all your fault (I almost typed you're just to piss off the HP spelling nazi)

Anyway From Serin's Blog:

". Robert happens to be a fan of the HousingPanic blog. I told him that blog was pretty much what put me on the map. We talked about how I’m the “poster boy” for everything he talks about in his book. "

Read down a little father and you'll see the whole pitch/book proposal/chapter 1.


Oh and as for the libertarians on here, if you want a bottom up society, then PLEASE go live somewhere on the planet that supports one. I hear New Guinea has been doing it for centuries. They spend 16 hours a day eeking out a living, but hey, at least they don't have to worry about all this community sponsored infrastructure making their lives a living hell.

Anonymous said...

You've had a car sitting in storage? Professional storage? It needs to be run occasionally and have the oil changed and gasoline changed. The gasoline will turn gummy and screw up your engine.

I hope it's not just sitting somewhere.

Anonymous said...

I'll take a wild guess here...most of you are still virgins and live at home.

Loser is being too kind.

Anonymous said...

it will be useless until it tells you WHEN to GET IN and WHEN to GET OUT...


the Bubble Theory sure does tell you this!

You GET IN when principal+interest+taxes+insurance on a 20% down, conventional 30 year fixed mortgage purchased property are little more than renting the same one.

You GET IN when lots of other people wish they could but the banks won't lend to them because they're bad credit risks---but you come with cash.



another 'bitter owner' here.

Well, I own because I have a rock bottom 30 year fixed ultra conventional mtg @5.25% on a house I got in 2000, with 27% down. PITI is less than rental, and I'd hate to give up 5.25% fixed until forever and CA's prop 13 (bad policy but good for me now).

And a 1995 "bitter renter" unwashed car.

It's also nice to have $200k in precious metals & uranium equities. In the smaller risk-taking subaccount.

Think: for the next 10 years, would you rather own:

home equity or uranium equity?

I can sell my uranium equity in 10 minutes when the glut starts to appear. This will take a while since mining uranium ain't like putting up cracker box fiberboard crap.

Dokataire said...

I rent, have a 4.5 year old Hyundai, but......I also have a Bachelors and....(!) a PhD and now work in the Physics department of a respectable University. Loser? I don't think so...:)

Anonymous said...

burn baby burn said...
I rent a lovely 1 bedroom apartment of the 12 floor over looking a country club. I love walking out on to the balcony to yell "Four" and watch all the golfers duck. O good time and cheap entertainment. All utilities are paid and my total rent is $858 a month.


Liar liar pants on fire. $858 for a country club condo? Man, if you're gonna make shit up make it somewhat plausible.

Here is the garbage you get for $875 in San Diego.And good news, it says Section 8 is OK!!

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/apa/311264306.html

Yeah I can just picture you out there next to the "country club" (read crackhouse) yelling fore as the lovely prostitutes duck for cover from the gang gunfire.

And yes oh Mr. Wise Renter, it's FORE not FOUR. But why would I expect a lowly renter to know anything about golf?

txotxete said...

to Anonymous April 13, 2007 5:26 PM:

Welcome Casey!

PS Wishing it was G on that WIRED Cover!

Missed Out said...

I don't think I can join the renters fan club here, but I have a $850 payment (mort and taxes) and have had no car payment for well over a decade. My house is worth (are you ready) about 20K more than when I moved in 15 years ago - and ya know what - I don't care.

I followed my father's advice to be sure to study something in college that was technical enough to sell my labor for, to get a job with benefits and a solid pension plan (currently overfunded). I have enough sick and vacation leave in the bank to receive a paycheck for months if I get sick. I use one of my extra paychecks to prepay my car and homeowner's for the year and the other for an inexpensive vacation.

A relative of mine is convinced (or has convinced himself) that I am nothing more than a lemming wage slave of the elite, a victim. That framing is a huge part of the problem. If he can live on credit cards and HELOC's and pursue his entrepeneurial talents why should he believe otherwise?

Anonymous said...

OK I was wrong. Renting a 1 bedroom apartment and driving a car built while Reagan was president is the way to go.

How silly of me to not want to live like someone in the 3rd World.

RipeDurian said...

Garsh I love this kind of stuff:

My 1990 honda (paid off for 15 years) still looks great, averaging 37 mpg on combo city/highway: Pure highway?: FOURTY FOUR MPG. I AM A LOSER!.

What else, hmmm have not used a credit card for 18 years ( I know its a good deal if you pay it off every month but I know myself too well).

Oh by the way top ramen is not that bad either, if you want to live it up spend an extra 50 cents and get this kimchee style brand its super tasty and more substantial then normal ramen. Could be a saturday night splurge for former Real Estate Clerks, Mortgage brokers etc...: http://tinyurl.com/3ya8dh

Mark in San Diego (sometimes) said...

Anon - "there is an astounding amount of money out there". . .on that I agree - The problem is, it is concentrated at the top 20% or so. . .England is a great example - London is thriving because of the financial center - New York is thriving (Manhattan), but go up to Blackpool (ride the trams along the front and see the illuminaitons) and you will see the OTHER England - thousands of people milling around mid-day in beer halls because as one chap said, "they're on the dole." (wellfare to USA). . .same here - Coastal California is thriving, but the inland areas have huge areas of crime and poverty (can we say Stockton or Compton?). . .just because PF Changs is always crowded, doesn't mean prosperity is here for everyone - remember, in a county with a population of 3 million, 20% is 600,000 people! They fill a lot of upscale places, but look behind the Potemkin Villages. . .

Tom in South O.C. said...

I already witnessed Orange County real estate pulling back 30% at the end of the last real estate recession. I bought a 2/2.5 condo in Laguna Niguel for $131,900 in 1996. The selling price, when new in 1989, was $189,000. That's a 30.21% drop in SELLING price, not asking / wishing price. Too, check out PIMCO's Mark Kiesel (fund manager). He sold his home in O.C. last May, and moved him and his wife and kids into an [I'm sure very, very nice] apartment. He likely makes over $1 million / year. I am also a portfolio manager (global macro), and am also renting, and will continue to do so, until prices here in O.C. pull back substantially, as they did from 1989-1996. Buying a nice home in this market is a good way to quickly lose $500k.

Anonymous said...

Errrr... let's not be so hasty. Brown bag lunches and other such cheapskate methods of wealth acquisition are fine and dandy but what ARE you going to do with all that money when you croak? Take it with you? Joke's on you.

Not everyone with nice stuff is spending tomorrow's money to have it. Sometimes the goodies are a reward for a life well lived!

Anonymous said...

" You are wasting your time publishing this blog. Get a life"

So WHY are you here wasting YOUR time reading this blog?

Obviously you're an unemployed realtor or loan officer...

Anonymous said...

"You see out in the real world anyone who is a renter past the age of 30 is a loser. Anyone who drives a 10 year old Honda like you idiots is a loser."
~
I don't do either one, personally, but if I did, I'd be wealthier.

Renting makes excellent financial sense right now, and a 10-year-old Honda would be paid for and very cheap to operated. Very smart.

I guess this bozo's idea of what people do in the real world is what my ex-landlord did, which was to get himself deep in debt trying to look wealthy, while in fact he is much worse off than my 18-year-old son who has zero debt and a couple of hundred dollars in his checking account.

Anonymous said...

Disclosure, I am only long two things: Gold and Ammunition
~
Good strategy, sounds like the Mogambo Guru!

eternitus said...

The ridiculed renter - Here's his story... (I got this from an email to my blog)

-----------------------------------

Two Years Ago (April 2005), I had a choice... rent or own. A year before that, I was doing my Frank the Tank impersonation in college. So I am really too young to have participated gainfully in the housing boom.

I chose to rent. I was told by everybody who could fog a mirror that I was a fool. Real Estate never goes down... always up, and the new paradigm is 10% a year... forget the past... history is useless anyway. All of the books at Barnes & Noble said so. I tried to reason with them that their wishful thinking fails when pitted against the hard realities of mathematics, to no avail.

Long-term interest rates weren't going to stay at 5% forever (unless we want the Dollar to trade at par with the Mexican Peso).

Equities looked like a much greater value at the time.

I saved $800 a month for two years (difference between renting and owning). I put that $800 a month into a diversified mix of investments, heavily weighted toward energy, commodities & foreign stocks (betting against the dollar (FED funny money) and in favor of economies with more "room to grow".

I got 20% annual returns on those investments. The end result is that I have built up $25,000 in equity today.

My buddy, who my mom wished I could be "smart" like, bought a dot.condo with no money down. He payed $4,000 in closing costs. He paid $1750 per month on his no-money down mortgage.

He though he had built $30,000 (through the beneficial magic of leverage and actually a 10% price appreciation) in equity when he agreed to sell his condo late last year for $330,000 vs. $300,000 in 2005 (I was still the dummy). He said his mortgage paydown basically offset his $4,000 in closing costs.

Then he saw that the Realtor "earned" $19,800 on the sale.

Scorecard:
Ridiculed Renter - $25,000
"Smart" Owner - $10,200

Who "threw his money away?" I'll buy when the relationship between house prices and rents goes back to normal.
---------------------------------

If you account for taxes, the gap narrows to only $10,000, but man, this guy is a genius.

william hung said...

What a f@cking tool this pseudo broker is.Probably can't even pay his bills.He will be down at the couthouse bidding on his house soon.I cannot beleive these bullshitters trying to keep the market afloat.There are too many liars out there looking for easy money.Look out for yourself and avoid anyone in a suit.They will bend you over in a minute.

Singha said...

I'm an engineer and spend most of my time working in China, Thailand, Malaysia, and Vietnam. We're really nearing the end of not only the manufacturing era in the US but the end of being the world technology leader. IBM is currently building the most advanced wafer fab in China and will design there as well. I meet guys every day who speak perfect English and have graduate degrees from Cal Tech, MIT , Perdue, etc. There’s allot of brilliant people in engineering and science that not only prefer to stay in Asia but now have the opportunity to advance there as well.

I rent in the USA and bought in Malaysia (4000 sq. ft = 150K). Real estate there has been steady but it would cost me 20% more to buy today than in 2001, not because of appreciation, but because of a drop in the US dollar. Ask a troll just what they think will shoulder the US economy after we stop designing and manufacturing anything here. We can't all work for the government, healthcare and REIC. The country actually has to produce something to have sustainable long term growth.

Another observation. Why do trolls think renters did nothing with all the money we saved or somehow "missed the boat" and have no cash? I've never met a group more in tune with investment growth than HP readers. I guess because the average troll is so oblivious as to how to invest it just doesn’t occur to them that there are better investments than real estate. Of course it's a mute point because one actually has to have money to invest. A trolls idea of investing is a no money down, no doc, teaser loan because that’s what's available to them and now that's been taken away so their just a little bitter aren’t they.

Cow_tipping said...

Here is a twist:- I am a hardcore bubble head. And I own. Bought in 2003 in a market that never has had a bubble up till now. And it was a city that experienced a real trough in RE values ~2002.
However, I own outright a 96 F150 and wifey a 02 Mitsubishi Diamante (notice how the men always own more older/utilitarian than the women) and I usually have it sitting, with me on a motorcycle even in winter riding in to work ... free bike parking, much much less gas and the absolutely cool factor form people who wish they had my nerves or my ability (OK OK it sounds good in my head) ...
So not every bubble head is a low rent loser (that was an oxymoron if there ever was one ... ) just that some of us wish that were were a renting loser :)).
Cool.
Cow_tipping.

eternitus said...

Check out my new blog post. I spent a lot of time compiling data to get an actual look at "fundamentals." Hopefully it will be of value to you.

http://financeguru-eternitus.blogspot.com/

cashFlo said...

"you renters missed out on all the action during the bubble - why didn't your great theories tell you to jump in and get rich while the gettin' was good????"

Ignorant anon: a "bubble sitter" is someone who sold at/near peak and is waiting to get back in. Many bubble sitters on this blog, sittin' pretty. Sorry to burst your bubble, pal.

Anonymous said...

Sweet deals, Kiyosaki, timing the housing market...Hi, Casey Serin!

When to "get in" on a Ponzi scheme? Never because you know a trap when you see one. When to "get out" - never, because you didn't "get in". The Big Secret is knowing how to recognize and avoid scams.
Solution: get rich slow, maybe try starting a business. Beyond occasional flukes, lottery jackpots, or marrying up, there are not too many easy, legal paths to riches.

Anonymous said...

QUOTE:
I have a new Kia, Payments are reasonable, and it is warrantied for 10 yrs, match that GM,ford...What's that silence I hear?

By Kia_10yr_warrenty,
QUOTE

From what I hear, you will be needing that warranty.

QUOTE:
you renters missed out on all the action during the bubble - why didn't your great theories tell you to jump in and get rich while the gettin' was good????
and now you're the only folks with 2 spare nickels to rub together - so that means Schumer/Hillary/Dodd are gonna be on your doorstep
with jackboots to force you to fund the bailout.
you lost on the upswing and you're gonna lose on the downswing... great
theory you got there...
face it - the truth hurts, suckers...
QUOTE

No, smart money people will put that cash in precious metals or other assets that the tax and spenders cannot get at.

Anonymous said...

I'm 32, single, no kids, I have a BA in Economics, and I rent in Orange County(no roommates). Nice gated apartment with pool/spa/gym. I sold my home late 05 at a nice profit. Now I will just wait for the market to unravel. I'm a Senior Financial Advisor and make an average of 120k/yr and am enjoying life. I travel and go anywhere without having to worry about running out of money or getting into debt. My car is paid for. I date beautiful women. My investment accounts have gone through the roof. But too bad I'm a loser because I rent, hehe.

Richard said...

I too am an idiot. We sold our house in 2005, quintupling (no accounting for inflation of course) what we paid for it, have two paid-off vehicles in the driveway of a rental duplex, three kids out of college and on their own, no debt, a cabin on 20 acres in the hills with a self-built retirement home going up near it this summer.

Anonymous said...

i wish i had bought in 2000! i cannot even afford to buy a condo today!

Anonymous said...

I think someone who makes $50K a year and buys a brand new $25K car every 3 years and judges other people based on their cars is a loser, grow up.

Joseph said...

Let me just add something:

Debt = Slavery,
No Debt = Freedom
Money in the bank = Security

New Car = Bragging rights
Fancy House = Bragging rights
Flat screen HDTV = Bragging rights

Why do people give up freedom and security for bragging rights? Let the Joneses keep up with themselves!

Trich said...

As we all know the bar to entry to home ownership is SO high. Sheesh bro, anyone with a pulse, the janitors, strawberry pickers in California with an annual 15k income, etc. bought into the mess. Just because they were dumb enough to get suckered into sure foreclosure doesn't mean they're "winners" in this process.

Love the 10 year old Honda comment also. One of the most common attributes of millionaires in this country (as of the writing of the Millionaire Next Door in the late 90s) was that they didn't blow money on cars.

Guys like this troll always look for the cheap way to make money, sometimes it works but it ALWAYS catches up with them. Times of plenty quickly turn to times of nothing. Meanwhile, all they have to show for it are depreciating assets and trendy, but gaudy crap. One of my fellow associates told me about a partner he worked with who was probably the most respected real estate attorney in Las Vegas- his car? A 10 year-old Oldsmobile. Oh yeah, he charges about $500 an hour. He received an inverse sense of joy out of driving his junker around while every cheap, fly-by-night, get rich quick idiots flew by in their Hummers and BMW 3-series. Money in one day, out the next.

Anonymous said...

As long as you look wealthy, that's all that matters! Debt is the American dream!
Who cares if you lose countless hours of sleep at night thinking of how you will make the next mortgage payment or having your stomach twist and turn at the sight of the mailman bringing the bills.....the bills of debtor death. *evil laugh* hohohahahaaaa!

chris g said...

I bought a place in March 2004 in Columbia, Maryland. At the time I was very nervous to buy. What helped me go forward with buying was that my house could rent for $1500 a month while I was paying $1800/month for PITI on an 80/20. I felt the rent/buy was close enough, and the gap would narrow from mortgage tax deductions.

A year later, properties like mine were going for $350,000 (I bought for $290,000). You might think I was happy about this, but I was actually scared at how fast the runup was occurring. My wife wanted to tap into some equity so she could pay off her student loans and credit cards. I said no way -- instead I told her to keep opening cards with introductory low rates if necessary (but not too fast to avoid tanking her credit score), and because her student loan was permanently at 4.25%, I told her to keep working on it.

Now properties like ours are going for about $380K, and I haven't seen declines yet. I have wondered why the prices have held up so well. Perhaps it's because almost nobody got those toxic mortgages in our neighborhood. They either have fixed rate or 5/1 prime ARMs. The buildings are all single family houses, and only a few of them are rented out. It also might be that there continue to be good paying jobs available.

Still, I'm not tapping into my equity. I realize that what seems great today can be taken from us tomorrow if we're not careful. I think we are very fortunate to have a 20% equity cushion, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went to 10% cushion or even vanished altogether if the jobs picture happened to change. Either way, the next time we buy a place, we want to use any equity we have to transfer over to the next place.

I think the renters out there right now are very smart. I can tell you that even though we have some equity, it's only on paper, and taking care of our house is quite a chore. Our small back yard is like "Wild Kingdom" as invasive vines continue to wreak havoc. The yard is heavily sloped so erosion is a constant problem I am trying to address. We have these gargantuan pine trees back there that I wish never existed because of the ridiculous amount of pine needles that are shed in November. Trying to get grass to grow on a constant basis, anywhere in my yard, is a royal pain. We had virtually no decent furniture when we moved in, and while we have some now, it's taken us about 3 years to make the house look reasonably nice. I guess I could have loaded up the credit cards to get whatever I want, but I don't feel like paying for a couch for 5 years.

So enjoy yourselves while you rent. Save up some money for a down payment and some furniture when you eventually buy. There are definitely long, hot days in my back yard when I envy all of you.

DM1976 said...

I guess I'm a screwed homedebtor and one of the dumbest people on the street...

I bought pre-bubble for 160k. House peaked at about 440-450k, and is now worth about 410k. I pay just about $1,200 a month PITI. A similar house near by rents for $2,000. Should I sell, loose my tax deductions and rent?? I hope the bubble doesn't pop and screw me over... :)

Renting SUCKS @$$.

Would I buy today? Not on your live, even if that blond agreed to be my slave. I bought before the bubble and didn't tap the housing ATM. There are alot of us out there that will be just fine when the bubble pops. More then half my family ownes outright and the other half owes less then 50%...

a.creampuff said...

Another big time loser here. Cashed out of house, car paid off, ahead of curve on retirement account, mutual funds, savings, plus $5k minimum in checking at all times. Those many new millionaires we hear about? Just bear in mind, high income plus high burn rate can mean zero or negative net worth. How could most neuvo riche resist buying into Consumption Gulch (another term from Millionaire Next Door)? Once you get into the high consumption lifestyle (effectively interchangeable with upper income level), and most high-earners will, you no longer have the choice not to spend too much on everything. Fact of life in America, land of illusions.

JUSTIN BERFIELD said...

BERFIELD SUES CONSTRUCTION FIRM OVER MOULDY HOME

Former MALCOLM IN THE MIDDLE star JUSTIN BERFIELD is suing a Los Angeles construction firm for turning his old home into a mould-infested wreck.

The actor, who now lives in pal Jessica Simpson's former home in Calabasas, California, claims he suffered respiratory problems while living in the Studio City home.

He is suing Shell Burton Construction over what he says was faulty work the company did on the home, which once belonged to George Clooney.

In a lawsuit, obtained by TMZ.com, Berfield alleges he learned his former home was infested with mould when he tried to sell the house.

Berfield is suing for negligence, breach of warranty and breach of contract, and is asking for damages in excess of $1 million.

lumberman said...

“TIMBER”!

bubble_watcher said...

The government made me do it!!

;-)

Anonymous said...

http://tinyurl.com/yuqnjh

Get with the fricken' program, dudes. Here is an article from Smartmoney. It obviously gives good advice. Buy now. Don't rent. Uh-oh. I think the writer is in bed with the NAR. I hope she is using protection.

Another person who has sold their soul to the devil for a paycheck.

The magazine is "Smartmoney". Now very smart, is it? But remember this,we need suckers to buy at times like this. We need suckers to contribue to the economy. We need suckers to get into massive debt and become slaves to the system. We need fools because they make the system run at its best.

Drop her an email at

cdebaise@smartmoney.com

And ask:

Are you fricken out of your mind?

I love the bulls right now. Somewhere in this article is states that at some point the home will double in value. I love this argument, the you get nothing at the end of renting. Well, the NY Times states that renting is good right now.

Any fool with a spreadsheeet can see that now is not the time to buy anything real estate. Then again, we need fools.

As anon stated 4/14/07, 3:31p

Debt is wealth.

Fernando said...

As long as you look wealthy, that's all that matters! Debt is the American dream!
Who cares if you lose countless hours of sleep at night thinking of how you will make the next mortgage payment or having your stomach twist and turn at the sight of the mailman bringing the bills.....the bills of debtor death. *evil laugh* hohohahahaaaa!


It is better to look good than to feel good.

borkafatty said...

OT: Anyone recomend a good GLD ETF or mutual fund...I have cash that I dont want to see burned..even tho I am bearish..but bullish....I dont know screwed up times we live in...oh the excitement...nice not to be a debt whore!..thank Ye M8's

Anonymous said...

so sorry i never found that self entitlement of a ceo or five top corporate officers jobs that enabled me to take 10 percent of the companys yearly profits, im just a 10 year shareholder who thinks i would have done better employing 5 dollar an hour help, guess i should have counted shareholder votes!, or outsourced all wages and jobs to that wage

Anonymous said...

I swear Kieth ,you manage to attract the greatest bloggers around.Congrats-I fuckin love this blog.I'm the real loser.Bought a 2.5 acre spread ,no Troll involved,saved thousands ,and thousands,Buying another 1 acre,no Troll interferance on this one either,Saving Millions.Had a Toyota P/u for 13 years/600,000miles no breakdowns,but did smash into a chevy with it,No warranty required on those things,I was going for a million.Built a little shop,no rip off trolls here.I must say that yes my domain is currently a POS,but crap ,I quit my Job ,and have enouph excess money to start a business without a loan from Ben Bernanke.Hmmmmm oh well.Renting was easier for sure,and would go back to it,but I need what I have now to build upon.



SHAKSTER- G- F Yrslf HAHAHAHA

Libertarians are Libtards said...

"Oh and as for the libertarians on here, if you want a bottom up society, then PLEASE go live somewhere on the planet that supports one. I hear New Guinea has been doing it for centuries. They spend 16 hours a day eeking out a living, but hey, at least they don't have to worry about all this community sponsored infrastructure making their lives a living hell."

Afghanistan, Iraq, or Somalia might even be more to their liking. Not a whole lot of government there to redistribute wealth.

belchorama said...

anon April 14, 2007 1:42 AM:

The sheer magnitude of the ignorance of that article's writer is shocking. A year ago, I wouldn't have been surprised, but the MSM has finally caught on over the last few months...apparently it will take a few more moths for this particular genius. I love the final quote, something like "we love real estate, we can't figure out why you don't." You will...

ramen ronin said...

while you guys are pointin fingers
and blamin
I'm gonna enjoy me another helpin
of those noodles that are ramen




Dedicated to the fiscal memory of Albert Lowry Ph.D., who made a million dollars in real estate...then went bankrupt.

Anonymous said...

My wife and I just paid our income taxes. With combined income of 285K we could have easily bought a home in the over valued area in which we live. But why on earth would we have done that? The housing markets impending doom was a given.

Over the last two years, since selling our previous home, a lot of noses would turn up when I mentioned that we are renting. Now those same noses rest on bowed heads in my presense.

The housing market is coming down and it's coming down hard. The ripples will wash over the entire economy. Be prepared!

Anonymous said...

Anon: "There is an astounding ammount of money out there. I have never seen so many truly rich people. This bust aint gunna happen."

Well, the problem is perhaps that such 'truly rich people' are less keen on buying debtpaid middleclass-owned houses in anonymious surburbia surroundings. Or what do you think?

Anonymous said...

The debt lovers and those dumping on the renters vs. owners should head over here:

http://drhousingbubble.blogspot.com/search/label/real-homes-of-genius

and have a look at the real homes of genius awards. 800 sq ft for 500K? Yeah, I guess CA still has a crack smoking problem. I know, I know, it aint just Cali, but homes in gang infested turf for 475K are fun to laugh at.

Anonymous said...

keiffer needs to take my advice and make sure his lexus is maintained and not just "stored".

You can't just "store" a car and come back a couple years later and expect it to run.

Fiction Writer said...

I'm a loser, and I bet none of you can top this...sold my house six months ago for triple what I paid, had no loan, owned it outright, netted 300k.

The doctor told me I have only a few months to live, so I spent it all, mostly helping out people and animals in need (through legit agencies, for sure). Made me feel so good I overcame my affliction and now have a clean bill of health.

So I'm starting over and feel damn good about it.

borkafatty said...

"Oh and as for the libertarians on here, if you want a bottom up society, then PLEASE go live somewhere on the planet that supports one. I hear New Guinea has been doing it for centuries. They spend 16 hours a day eeking out a living, but hey, at least they don't have to worry about all this community sponsored infrastructure making their lives a living hell.


-----------------


I bet they are not paying $4.99 for a box of Kellogg Cerial...thats for sure!

Anonymous said...

"There are alot of us out there that will be just fine when the bubble pops. "

You must not live in California. As a fellow 'pre-bubble, non equity tapping' homeowner, I can be confident in saying that I am a truly a minority here in CA. More than 1/2 of my colleagues and friends have tapped into the cash-refi or HELOC at least twice. SO I have to disagree and say there are going to be very few out there that will be Ok. GREED IS A MOTHERFUCKER.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who bought in CA would be a fool not to sell now that they can get 3-4x their price 10 years later. Just rent a house. Even a nice house with all the loot you've made.

Actually everyone in CA even if they have little equity or no equity would be a fool not to sell. Even no equity people will be in a bad way when prices go down 30% and they're now tied to this albatross house.

cool hand luke said...

Libertarians? Bottom up society? Boy they really have twisted and confused our sheeple. Such a mess, so many stupid people. What other outcome could we expect? Liberty and Socialism, aren’t they the same thing? Since I’m in a charitable mood I‘ll give you some links to kick start the healing process. This will take time and effort on your part. Good Luck.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language-Libertarian

Libertarian Party principles

Anonymous said...

The grammer says it all.

The grammEr? Somsething about glass houses and stones comes to mind.

Missed Out said...

Libertarian Link: I always like the literature man, it's just whenever I hear you guys spouting off you sound like some adolescent boy screaming about your independence. You want all the benefits of your parents standard of living without any of the compromise that makes it possible. You offer knee jerk reactions to any perceived slight to your "liberty", but offer little in the way of solutions for protecting and producing it. As my husband always says about gys trudging off into the woods with shotguns, "if they want to call themselves hunters, then let them go bear hunting with a knife." I would say the same about libertarians, if you want a society where you don't have to transfer collective responsibility to any form of organization (for example, to get your children educated, roads built, justice system administered) then go live somewhere that doesn't burden you with any of those things.

Bon Voyage New Guinea. Have a nice free life....

On 60 bucks a year...