What we know now about the Iraq debacle:
1) It would cost well over $1 Trillion when all is said and done, over $3,000 for every man, woman and child in the US
2) Over 5,000 US soldiers would be killed, tens of thousands injured, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would die
3) There was no WMD, no threat to the US
4) We'd stick around for years trying to referee a nasty ages-old religious civil war
5) We'd try (and fail) to be nation builders
6) We'd have no exit strategy
7) We'd be hated throughout the world
8) We'd lose our soul and moral standing, becoming a nation who authorized, encouraged and allowed torture
9) Dick Cheney's Halliburton would be the main beneficiary
10) We didn't get the oil
Seriously, would you have been in favor of going to war if you knew what you know now? You are certifiably insane (or brainwashed) if you say yes. But now, we just continue the mistake, instead of ending it. We should get our troops out of there today, 100% of them. And when needed to support the Iraq government, we send in airpower like Somalia this week.
We are living under the worst US president of all time my friends, which will become even more obvious in the years to come as the housing crash and entitlement bombs explode.
Warren Harding, I never thought I'd say it, but you're now #2 my man. Congrats!
January 11, 2007
Would you have wanted to go to war knowing what you know now? More arrogance and stupidity last night from the worst US president of all time
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Bush has to win the oil in Iraq. Otherwise the $ will be toast.
Bush has to win the oil in Iraq. Otherwise the $ is toast.
Did anyone see Senator Jim Webb responses to president Bush plans. He has got a much better grip of what is happening over there and he said no more money. He stated that there will never be peace there while US forces are there. He also explained that there is not just one group on bad guys, there are about 5 little wars going on inside Iraq.
How is it that after 3 years +, and 500 billion US dollars,++ countless lives, that:
THE G-DUMBYA REGIME IS TRYING TO ASSEMBLE THE VERY SAME IRAQI ARMY AND POLICE FORCE, THAT THEY DISBANDED UPON INVASION TO BEGIN WITH?
Like I said, we've been CONNED. Destabilization was always at the forefront because that is what is happening on the ground. Look at what is happening, not what they are telling you what is happening.
My review of his speech last night.
It seems that we are trying to Westernize people that make women wear veils. With Afganistan on the right and Iraq on the left, seems Iran (the real nuclear threat) will have two fronts. IF the whole object was Iran in the first place, then the war was somewhat worth it. But, we have the technology to solve all of these problems without spending so much money with troops on the ground.
the stupidest pres in history is surrounded by oil men.
it's about the oil stupid.
iraq has the most under utilized oil fields and infrastructure of any country, now we have it, not the chineese.
the game of RISK, in real time.
oil is the only thing that keeps amerika going, what price is too high to build another strip mall another 4 lane hiway another cracker box subdivision of track homes. its the KEY, "The Prize" as PBS called it which keeps the illusion of a growing unstopable U.S. economy.
cheap oil is running out, we need to secure as much cheap oil today to keep the bubble economy inflated.
What's the matter Keith? Your anti-American socialist Democraps are in power and yet even so we're not cutting and running?
Thank god we have a president who is willing to stand up and do the right thing.
notice how the picture is cropped so u can't see his Nikes!!!
Ya know what gets me? It's all this "winning" bullshit that Bush and his jewish handlers are always spewing about Iraq. What do they mean, winning? What the hell are we gonna win? Honestly? We have made an entire race (and I believe the largest race) of people our sworn enemies with our unwavering support of the israeli sluaghter of palistinians, now we have to go in and personaly kill them. These people are very clannish, they have not been indoctrinated with the jews multiculturism, communist B.S. When you start mass murdering a certain tribe of arabs, they all get pissed.
We need to pull out of the middle east completely, issue a statement that we are breaking all ties with the real terrorists, the israelis, and leave them the fuck alone!
You must have missed the Carter years.
Dear Keith,
Our Troops in Iraq invaded the Iran Embassy in Iraq and arrested 5 civilians this morning. The Iranian President Imadinnerjacket wants to take over Iraq, and is waiting for us to pull out.
Iran is supposedly behind the insurgents in Iraq, a.k.a. funding and men.
I say let the oil, nukes, and insurgents stay in the Gulf, right?
They will stay there, and not attack us, here in the USA if we withdraw, right?
There will be another Kuwait like take over first Iraq, then Nukes, and then Israel. Iran has been very vocal about their plans.
Just sayin.
Oh, and no, no one ever wants war and hind sight is always 20/20.
U.S. ATTACKS IRANIAN CONSULATE IN IRAQ HOPING TO SPREAD THIS JEWISH WAR THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST.
US forces storm Iranian consulate
US forces have stormed an Iranian consulate in the northern Iraqi town of Irbil and seized six members of staff.
The troops raided the building at about 0300 (0001GMT), taking away computers and papers, according to Kurdish media and senior local officials.
The US military would only confirm the detention of six people around Irbil.
The raid comes amid high Iran-US tension. The US accuses Iran of helping to fuel violence in Iraq and seeking nuclear arms. Iran denies both charges.
Tehran counters that US military involvement in the Middle East endangers the whole region.
A local TV station said Kurdish security forces had taken over the building after the Americans had left.
Irbil lies in Iraq's Kurdish-controlled north, about 350km (220 miles) from the capital Baghdad.
Reports say the Iranian consulate there was set up last year under an agreement with the Kurdish regional government to facilitate cross-border visits.
Take a look at a map of US bases in the middle east. you will see we have been surrounding Iran for years. The last two pieces of the puzzle needed to completely surround Iran....you guessed it Afghanistan and Iraq!
The map looks like a game of Statego being played and Iran is in a bad, bad position.
Read Pat Buchanan's book:
A republic, not an empire.
I can only conclude Bush is dumb.
Yeah, it's a mess in Iraq. Wars are never simple or pretty, but WTF is your plan?
Lets just sit here on our fat asses watching American Idol, eating McGriddles, and refi-ing our McMansions. Islamists with nukes are no concern of ours. Britney Spears' taco is much more important than all this other foreign policy stuff.
The old saying "Where there's a will, there's a way" has never been more apt. We've become a nation of lazy pussies, and it doesn't take a thorough reading of history to see what fate awaits us. All of you Bush haters are revelling in his troubles and incompetence, but you are just as guilty because you fools elected pols that will sell us out to the radicals.
The coming economic hard times will see Americans demanding a strong leader. We will get a "President for life", and that person will probably be elected from the Democrat Party. Will you whiners and freeloaders be happy with that result, or will it still be Dick Cheney's fault?
1) It would cost well over $1 Trillion when all is said and done, over $3,000 for every man, woman and child in the US.(A CAPITAL INVESTMENT THAT WILL YELD TECHNOLOGY GAINS FOR GENERATIONS, LIKE MOST PREVIOUS WARS)
2) Over 5,000 US soldiers would be killed, tens of thousands injured, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would die. (FAR LESS THAN MOST MAJOR WARS)
3) There was no WMD, no threat to the US. (AN ASSUMPTION ON EITHER ARGUMENT.)
4) We'd stick around for years trying to referee a nasty ages-old religious civil war. (UNLESS WE KILL ENOUGH TO PACIFY THE NATION)
5) We'd try (and fail) to be nation builders. (THE US HAS ALWAYS EXPANDED DEMOCRACY)
6) We'd have no exit strategy. (NO NATIONS HAVE EVER ENTERED WARS WITH EXIT STRATEGIES)
7) We'd be hated throughout the world. (WE WERE HATED TO BEGIN WITH...HAS MORE TO DO WITH JEALOSIES AND SCREAMING LIBERAL MEDIA)
8) We'd lose our soul and moral standing, becoming a nation who authorized, encouraged and allowed torture. (THIS IS A JOKE. I'VE SEEN WORSE TORTURE AT FRATERNITY PLEDGINGS. GROW A SPINE.)
9) Dick Cheney's Halliburton would be the main beneficiary. (AN AMERICAN OWNED, PUBLIC COMPANY THAT PAYS HIGH WAGES TO AMERICANS)
10) We didn't get the oil. (IT WAS NEVER ABOUT THE OIL. IRAQ DOESNT HAVE OR PRODUCE THAT MUCH.)
Ah, the Fox News talking points. Gotta love 'em
"THE G-DUMBYA REGIME IS TRYING TO ASSEMBLE THE VERY SAME IRAQI ARMY AND POLICE FORCE, THAT THEY DISBANDED UPON INVASION TO BEGIN WITH?"
Why? They're Stupid.
That's really it. They're just plain, utterly, ideologically insane, Not In This Real World Delusionarily, willfully and dangerously s t u p i d.
They imagine the world will work out according to their delusionary plans because "They're On the Side of God or History" or whatever.
"Study of empirical reality and probability---that's how liberals work. We don't do that." -- neocon ideology.
More specifically, they were conned by the Iranians, namely Ahmed Chalabi who is a double agent working for Iran, and himself. Chalabi knew exactly what to tell the neocons.
The Shiites and Iranians and Chalabi's party would be the winners from destroying all internal security in Iraq.
Who didn't get the oil?
Who got the oil?
Ahmed Chalabi is/was the Oil Minister of Iraq. No joke.
Liberals have a plane. They think if we just sit around, hold hands and sing songs about multiculturism the islamofascists wil leave us alone. Maybe even let a few muslim congressmen swear on the koran, show them how "tolerant" we are.
That is their plan. Capitulation to muslims at home and defeat aboard. Boy oh boy I can't wait until one of them is the Commander in Chief.
fox news...yes it is on fox news. Now debate the issue not the source.
debating any info from fox news is like debating info from the church of scientology
why even waste the time. ever see a cult member go against the cult?
The coming economic hard times will see Americans demanding a strong leader. We will get a "President for life", and that person will probably be elected from the Democrat Party. Will you whiners and freeloaders be happy with that result, or will it still be Dick Cheney's fault?
I will not be happy (more like enraged) with that result, and yes it will be Dick Cheney's fault.
sure thing keith, anything said on fox news is to be ignored...but Keith Olberman is to be honored and bowed down to
If blogs were around in 1863 the Keiths of the world would have been calling for an end to the civil war.
You can look at some editorials from that eara, change Lincoln to Bush, the South to Iraq and it's vermatim to the editorials from the NY Times today.
"I will not be happy (more like enraged) with that result, and yes it will be Dick Cheney's fault."
But you won't actually do anything about it, will you? You'll just bend over and take it like a good little prole. Sad, truly sad.
It would appear that the average Joe American is too preoccupied with other things than Iraq right now and the 20,000 troops that will be sent over shortly.
The dollar is shit, most Americans are financially incompetent and up to there eyeballs in credit card debt, auto loans and mortgages, their housing nest egg is shrinking in value, college for their children has never been more expensive or out of reach in terms of affordability and gas prices keep chugging along at high levels.
Keith is right. People are not happy about the war in Iraq, but it's too far away and just happening on TV. People are more worried about the real shit happening right here in the USA every day?
Otherwise, yeah, you'd see demonstrations on the White House lawn...
Word to the Wise: If you want America out of Iraq, WRITE, TELEPHONE OR FAX YOUR CONGRESSPEOPLE TODAY! If you can't afford to telephone them in D.C., call or fax them at their local offices in your state. THE TIME FOR ACTION IS NOW!!!!
Comparing the US civil war to the Iraq civil war we see on TV today is a nice stretch.
Had blogs existed in 1863, Buchanan would have been likely impeached years before.... he ranked right up there behind Warren Harding by the way..
The US had no business getting involved in this war, even if it did draw in Al Qaeda warriors who wanted to fight US troops, it was a bad "strategery" with piss poor tactics from the start.
In my opinion, Pakistan is where US military and intelligence efforst should be focus.
The sad fact is, due to American ignorance of this complicated region, by knocking off Saddam Hussein and his regime, we only succeeded in destroying one of the strongest regional bullwarks against Shiite radicalism and Al Qaeda.
I know, it's shocking. Makes you want to take a shower to get that icky feeling off...
The problem as I see it is that we no longer fight "war."
To fight a war you have to completely subjugate the population and remove their will. This is accomplished by killing all of the men and boys, raping and impregnating the women, and enslaving the rest. After time, the place is repopulated with your own.
Yeah, sounds bad, but that's war and that's how it's been successfully accomplished since the dawn of mankind.
People aren't protesting because its a volunteer force made up of others that most in the US don't really care about.
Re-initiate the draft and you'll get a different reaction.
Oh, get off of your cheap hypocritical criticisms. If we wanted to hear this drivel, we'd go to the Daily Kos.
All you libs do is criticize and whine. That's why you've been out of power for so long. I guess you think that Jimmy Carter was a great president.
Carter was the all time worst president. Gave away the Panama canal (hey, why not Hawaii and Alaska too), made the US look weak during 444 days of the Iran hostage crisis, etc.
Criticizing Bush doesn't mean your a liberal, buttmunch.
Ironically, not even George W. Bush fits nicely into the simplified compartmentalism of "liberal" vs. "conservative".
I voted for that Texas ignoramus and made a huge mistake.
I'm more of a man for admitting that than you are for criticizing my right to criticize.
Bush has done one thing right in his whole presidency. Spend serious money to fight AIDS. Other than that he is a complete f'ing failure.
Honica:
Get real, Muslims were always the sworn enemies of Jews and Christians, Hindus, Bhuddists and pagans since the 600's or whenever that whack-job Mohammed invented his death cult.
We are at war with the Islamo-nut jobs whether the pansy, castrated liberals in Europe or the US acknowlege it or not.
And, oh, by the way, religious wars usually involve lots of genicide as well. Look at the Muslims in Dafur killing the Africans.
--- debating any info from fox news is like debating info from the church of scientology
same could be said about the NYT.
I didn't vote for Bush. Was highly circumspect of the invasion prior. But...I have a hunch for once he's right. The right thing to do might be a massive influx of forces. Yes, it's a clusterf**k, as some of us suspected. But it's a little too late to say you don't want the war now. I'm at a loss for an analogy. It was all predictable, but we got hornswaggled and ramrodded into it. Perhaps his palid, tail-between-legs expression last night was the realization of just how bad all options are, especially immediate and complete withdrawl.
What are the alternatives? Diplomacy? Alternative energy and conservation? Better plan of attack? Better (any) exit strategy?
CIA says number one way to ensure more terrorists is to continue doing what we're doing, so that part of the speech certainly doesn't wash. It's not a simple problem. Peak Oil is upon us, and we did nothing to avert the need for the Oil War. Oh, sorry, I'm just a bleeding heart.
I voted for Bush both times. I supported the war in Iraq, trusting the integrity of our nation's government, believing that the information they had in hand was compelling them to act.
We won this war handily during the first phase, and even now, should we drive hard, we could do what we do best, break things and kill people. But something has eroded my confidence in this war, something nagging at my intellect, something that hasn't added up.
I wasn't upset that we didn't find WMDs. I postulated that they were shipped to Syria, buried or hidden somewhere we'd never find them. That didn't upset me at all. Sure they had them. We just didn't find them.
No, it wasn't WMDs. It was something that had been right in front of me that I had seen with my own eyes, that was hidden right in plain view all along. It began with a question about how we had associated this war with 9/11 and the collapse of the Twin Towers where there was no link proven to involve Iraq with the attack.
No link. No proof. But before long there came information about a simple fact. The collapse of the Twin Towers was misnamed. The phrase should have been coined: "the collapse of the “Triplets”. For one building out of sympathy for the other two towers committed suicide that same fateful day. That building was WTC Building 7.
There were 3 buildings? Yes there were 3.
Ok.. so it happened. I was sure it was from the collapse damage from the Twins. Why not? Even that didn't disturb me until I heard and read the details of the construction of the buildings and learned of the laws of physics that were suspended on that day and that day alone. On no other day in history were the laws of physics broken in regards to structural engineering.
Somethings not right.
I thought terrorists did all of it. Now I'm not sure. I am sure of one thing. That job took massive planning. It couldn't have been done otherwise. Who did it? I don't know. But I'm not about to believe the Government's story. It doesn't add up. And I mean add... as in math and simple high school physics. It's simple, the buildings could not have fallen at the rate of speed that they did without someone cutting the support columns to alleviate the resistance of the vertical structural columns. Who did it? I don't know. Postulating won't do anyone any good here. Building 7's suicide and the free fall of WTC I and II were deliberate. Who did it? Let's find out.
hmm..."Thank god we have a president who is willing to stand up and do the right thing." - Stand up for WHAT???
Carter and W tie...
Keith, your obsession with Fox News is rather immature. Let it go, dude...
You want to win in Iraq? I have two words for you:
NUCLEAR WEAPON
We should have blown those ungrateful bastards off the face of the planet the day after they started looting and trashing the place.
This Iraq debacle is as much the fault of the Iraqi citizens as it is ours.
The R's are just as whimpy as the D's. I can't believe a country with hundreds of ICBM's can be held at bay by a bunch of punks with AK-47's. I'm ashamed. We're ALL idiots.
To All You Dead-Enders (that is , Bush supporters),
I knew way back in early 2003 that the entire premise for illegally invading Iraq was so much BS.
You only had to read essays by Mark Ritter to know which way was up. (Do you really think that if there were WMDs in Iraq the US army would have invaded? It would have been a suicide mission. It would have been akin to police storming a house knowing the occupants had rigged it with explosives. Get a clue you ignorant, intellectually flatulent losers!)
I pray that you dead-enders will reap a most bitter harvest that will rip out your guts!
I pray that your nation will suffer pangs of sorrow 1000 times those suffered by the Iraqi people.
Regards,
Tim R.
Hey Bush Republican Kool-Aid drinkers and Faux News zombies,
Your president, the chimp, needs you for military service as more people join the Michael Jackson fan club every month than join the US armed forces...get off the internet, stop posting right-wing talking points riddled with hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty and JOIN UP, you cowards!
Go to Iraq to live your porn war fantasies and be proxies for neocons, corporations and Israel..they need white bread chumps to "fight for democracy".
Just rememeber though, this phony war is already lost, because as history always reminds us, an occupying force of mercenaries can never win against a home force that believes they're freedom fighters and willingly die for their cause.
Every American member of the military in Iraq is actually terrified of dying or left limbless, because they've realized that the chickenhawk Republican warmongers at home don't really give a shit about them or their sacrifice.Instead safely thousands of miles away, they rile up faggots like some of you in this thread to post inane theories on global politics.
Cockroaches and white boy chumps, your commander-in-mischief needs you, so drop your cocks and grab your socks and head to the recruiting office, you POSs.
"I do think you're an effing Parrot as well as an ignoramous ,all assuming ANON". - Shakster
Temper, temper. Exactly who was I parroting? Bush? The CIA? Truth is, man, I'm confused and angry. Don't know what to make of it all, and readily admit to being pretty ignorant about what's really going on. More we're told, the less it feels like we know.
A friend said the chaos was pretty much inevitable; that's where I'm coming from. Sooner or later, things were going to get nasty, and Bush just precipitated it, got in too deep, and now everyone is predictably screaming "get out". Too bad there wasn't more of a hue and cry earlier on. A lot of people regret voting for W. a second time - I never voted for him, but I'm at least trying to entertain his surge plan - not parroting pro- or anti- war voices at this juncture. Only trying to see all facets - the opposite of a parrot!
What kind of equilibrium will be reached? What path results in the least bloodshed, best all-around outcome? I don't think you, I, or anyone has the answer, partly because of missed opportunities going back most of our lifetimes.
We could have ended this war a long time ago. The best way to do it would be the way it was done in WWII in Japan, which is the same way as the ancient Romans: You need to genocide the people.
But this is impossible to do in the modern world, because the rest of the "civilized nations" will take action against us, and we'd lose our hegemony, defeating the purpose.
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