proud_homedebtor said...
You bitter renters are losers. I bought a $800,000 house with an option-ARM and am sitting pretty watching my home appreciate at 12% every year. I expect to retire and sell my house for $12,500,000 in 15 years while you bitter renters are paying $22,000 a month for rent.
January 08, 2007
"Proud Homedebtor" posts a love letter to "bitter renters"
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79 comments:
Happy Buyer.....Please stop doing drugs or start sharing them with the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ha ha ha! Love it. Yes, and in 20 years the 800k house will be worth 9 million--in realy dollars.
I love that the "hollow" cities are crashing. Talk abut places with low wage servie economies such as Vegas and Miami talking as if they were D.C., LA or Denver. Clear to even an Aussie that these places would implode. Good! I find people from FLA and Vegas dispicable in general--but I do love the U.S. otherwise.
Obviously this quote needs to stand for the infamy and Irrational Exuberance of the Housing Bubble Era. Ben Franklin said we can create wealth two ways, via Thrift and Hardwork or Speculation. America and Americans became wealthy via the former method, but as of the last 15+ years we've done it purely via the latter. The last time we deviated from the former and attempted the latter we caused the great depression. Why did that happen? The positive feedback of Easy money when people take great risk makes people rationalize the taking of even greater risk.
Lets hope we've not had too many people take on too great a risk in a critical mass that will cause the economy to topple over and implode like it did to trigger the great depression. I'm not a chicken little and we do have lots of safeguards today we did not have then and many people just did not get caught up in the mania. Only time will tell. I went from a home owner to a renter during the bubble era, both making & losing a signficant amount of money. Overall I'm ahead but I'm cooling my heels and licking my wounds and getting back to basics while I let things unfold. Lets hold tight, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
Yawn...
At least the dude realizes that the US$ will be worthless a few years out
A burger at McDonalds will cost $25 based on his math it looks like
This person is obviously not serious. I think this was a sarcastic post. Nobody is that stupid.
Um....
I hate to burst your "bubble", but a house that appreciates 12% a year for 15 years and was purchased for $800,000 will only be worth $4,379,000 then. Sorry.
:)
Dear Fellow Anonymous,
To the person who mentioned Benjamin Franklin,safeguards, etc.
I am very sorry, but most of those
safeguards have been discarded in the
last 10 years and no longer exist. The
deposits required for banks is neglibible, and just this morning on
CNBC an analyst was talking about the
risks in a 5th year of a bull market
(high) causing a run due to margin
calls.... We are leveraged in all
phases of life and the economy to the stratosphere, ie thin air, no
longer even out on a limb...PKK
Funny post but faulty math.
If the present value (PV) of the house is $800,000 and if it appreciates at 12% per year then it's value at the end of 15 years is:
$4,378,852
Speaking of investing the greatest investment anyone can ever make is to buy themselves an HP12C calculator.
It is difficult to use at first but once you get the hang of it you can do among other things complex DCF (discounted cash flow) calculations in a matter of seconds.
moe in aussieland said:
" I find people from FLA and vegas despicable in general..."
----------------------------------
You forgot to add or don't know about the staggering amount of scum found in Metro Phoenix and Arizona in general.
Uneducated boorish genetic mutants of the lowest social strata.
Collecting $22,000 a month for rent? Shut up until you can post a JPEG of the cancelled check.
Keith you can't serioulsy be this naive and not recognize that for what it is... A JOKE or more likely a post from on of the regulars having some fun
Obviously a facetious troll who succeeded in getting you to bite and post on your blog. No one is that dumb...
Actually, the post by proud homedebtor sounds like it was made up and written by on of you all- I dont know many people in the real world bragging about some option arm on there own home and saying that their house will be 12 million plus in 15 years (under a million now)
Sounds like a made up story, are any of you reasonable enought o see this??
Aussie,
Las Vegas dealers make $100K+. So do car valets. Maids make $50K a year. You won't find this in any gov stat since 90% of the money is made in tips. Officially they all make $8 an hour.
And also Aussie, the LV economy, despite what every 2 day toursit thinks, is only about 25% tourism.
Next time you're in town drive 5 miles west of the strip and you'll see a whole other world.
I'm not saying LV housing won't fall. It has and will some more. But for the same reasons it will fall in Los Angeles.
You aren't from Perth by chance are you? My sister lived there for 2 years. I visited her and thought the people there were the biggest tools I had ever met.
This original post seems to be sarcasm - you know - dry humor, monty python, that kind of thing...
I hope wages keep up so my kids can afford that same house in about 25 years at a cost of about $25 million. I better start saving now. Even so, he/she will have to be the next Warren buffet to even afford the rent. Thanks for the heads up.
http://br.endernet.org/~akrowne/ml-implode.html
He may be right, but I doubt he can hold on for that long.
Keith, cant you tell that this guy is being sarcastic, he's mocking you. WAKE UP!!
Sobering home-value graph in repeat:
http://www.tiny.cc/J3TB3
Sobering MP3-interviews in repeat:
http://www.tiny.cc/c9cAQ
http://www.tiny.cc/3KlyM
Sobering home-value graph in repeat:
http://www.tiny.cc/mbFj9
Sobering MP3-interview in repeat:
http://www.tiny.cc/U7RTt
um, i'm pretty sure this quote was a joke
"A burger at McDonalds will cost $25 based on his math it looks like"
there will always be 99cent menus, might be less meat and/or no meat in that burger, but it will taste good for cheap
Las Vegas according to HousingTracker
Median price today is $328,965. That is 6% below '05 peak price. It is .01% less than 11/14/06 price. Price had been at $329,000 for the past 10 weeks.
Inventory:
01/08/07: 20,978
01/01/07: 21,465
12/01/06: 23,143
11/01/06: 23,708
I know, I know YOY...but still the trend is going in the right direction.
I was thinking of selling in 2005. Talked to a couple of realtors and was about to list the house. I then added up the costs of selling, then moving, then buying, moving again and storage costs. I would rent a smaller home to make it all worthwhile and would have to store some furniture.
My calculations showed if the value of the house fell less than 10% I'd lose money after costs. If it fell 10-15% I'd make money but not enough to make moving twice worth my time and hassle. So unless the fall is 15%+ I will have made the right choice. So far, a year and a half into the downturn I'm happy with my decision.
Another aspect that I never see discussed here is quality of life.
Perhaps financially I'd be better off renting a cheap apartment for 1/2 price and putting the difference in the bank. But I like my house. I like my neighbors. I like living a safe neighborhood. I have a son who will start school next year. The K-5 school in my area is in the top 10% of schools in the state. Renting my home today would cost more than my mortgage. So is saving a few hundred dollars a month worth giving all that up? To some I guess it it, to me it's not.
What if he takes his millions and moves to a shitehole country where the local currency is even more debased than the USD? Lots of retirees are doing just that today and they are living at a higher standard than they could here in the USA.
So don't slam the guy's plan so quickly. IMO he might be far better prepared than the desperate renters waiting in line for their weekly handouts at the FEMA food bank.
All he will have to do in 15 years is find a young couple making $4 million a year to buy his house. Sounds like a fantastic plan!
OK lets see here ...
The US is churning out worthless graduates in arts and history (no offence to those who did graduate in that, except that nothing else is getting learnt by kids these days) while losing ground in hightech to China, India and japan just like we lost ground to South america for textiles and auotmobile etc in the 70's and 80's.
So I agree with the debtor ... only problem is that his 12.5 million dollar house will have to be in China in 10 years.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
G'day mates!
Ozzie Tim here.
That's peanuts. I started with $1,000 day trading tech stocks in 1996 (Yep, 10 years to the day) and with the tekkies averaging a 400% annual gain, I now have $4.2 Billion (yeah, with a "B")! I'm headed for a bit more than $4 Trillion in just 4 short years. Then I'll buy the United States.
I loved all of those naysayers who agrued with me when I was telling them stocks only go up and this time it will be different.
Hooroo. Ozzie Tim
Can't you recognize a spoof when it hits you in the butt??
did I say I thought it was serious or a spoof?
nope.
Just posted it. HP'ers will decide.
I just thought it was most excellent, either way
And you all know there are people out there as dumb as this. Greg Swann comes to mind...
this guy is not serious. he is being ironic. HP has a tin ear for irony.
Was David Lereah being ironic or doing satire when he called bottom?
Keith, I'm surprised you hav'nt posted the latest Olberman video. He's going off on Bush about sending 30,000 more American's to Iraq to die for israel.
"we can create wealth two ways, via Thrift and Hardwork "
You mean like going to school in a difficult subject like engineering or science, then spending 10 years in grad school + postdoc being paid poverty-level wages, and then find your job prospects exported to China or India?
And the frat-boy losers end up as sleazy mortgage brokers with smokin wives and a mistress?
Yeah, good ol Ben never new the depravity of modern capitalism.
and how does that square to the numbers of average household income of 28,000 a year, supposedly 54,000, in terms of paying your rents, to pay you a profit and your mortgage, today, 6,000 a month?
Complaining about students in 'arts' and whatever is foolish.
There are plenty of very hard working US based graduates in science and engineering. And most of them are getting the shaft.
I just got an email from a stupendously brilliant biologist I worked with---his funding is very low and he is spending all his time in futile grant applications. (funding ratios are at all time lows, and only the good ol boys with connections get anywhere). Sounds very familiar.
I've been unemployed for 8 months. Other people in our group have big problems too. yeah, we all have high level PhD degrees from Ivies, Stanford, MIT, UCs (and Russian equivalents) and the like, fellowships etc?
So why again should US students give up their drinking and partying years to go into hypercompetitive ball breaking subjects with little future and meager money?
The Chinese and Indian studnets on the other hand can come and slave in the US but when they go back home they quickly rise to heads of departments or executive positions, and enjoy a comparatively high, top 5%, standard of living as well as lots of status, major institutional and social recognition. Not only that but US universities make more money off foreign students. That's why science and engineering is full of non-US students.
What is the ratio between lawyer or corporate exec salaries to science salaries? Who can get a job easier? Remember that among practicing scientists the level of edjumacation is roughly equivalent to top 5 law schools.
You people that haven't bought tulips are losers.
I bought a 800,000 Dutch guilders worth of tulips and tulip bulbs and am sitting pretty watching them appreciate at 12% every year.
I expect to retire in 15 years once I sell all of my tulips and tulip bulbs for 12,500,000 guilders.
Signed,
Per Erik Dorfenburksson
as usual all the numbers are off, perhaps the same for ceo salaries, or stock options and datings/
Las Vegas dealers make $100K+. So do car valets. Maids make $50K a year. You won't find this in any gov stat since 90% of the money is made in tips. Officially they all make $8 an hour.
This is why "liar loans" should be illegal.
In the Good Old Days where you had to produce pay stubs or tax returns, if you cheated on your taxes then you couldn't turn around and get a ginormous loan.
I think the IRS should subpoena no-doc lenders and start investigating tax cheats identified thereof.
I didn't mean the income numbers were lies or the dealers cheats dumbass. They have paystubs showing their income. It is reported as income to the IRS. I mean that in BLS "wage" statistics the tip money doesn't show up.
Relax with the paranoia.
"And the frat-boy losers end up as sleazy mortgage brokers with smokin wives and a mistress? "
And the true reason why Keith and all of you are so bitter. At least someone's honest.
This reminds me of the conversation I had with my father senior year of high school, circa late 80s
Me: I'm getting a business degree.
Dad: The hell you are. You're going to be an enginner like me. Make an honest living and not a Wall St. paper pusher.
Me: To hell with that, Eng. is a lot of math. I'm getting a Bcom, then go work for Goldman doing I dunno what, but making a ton of money doing it. Then get an MBA and do more of the same and make even more.
Dad: OK do what you want, it's your life.
Well here I am 15 years after graduation, Bcom and MBA in hand. Had I done the engineering thing, I'd probably be driving a cab for a living as my job would be done by Sanjay in Bangalore for $12 an hour. Instead I'm just what dad said I'd be, a paper pusher on Wall St, but hey it sure beats driving a taxi for a living.
-----------------------------------
"And the frat-boy losers end up as sleazy mortgage brokers with smokin wives and a mistress? "
ah, funny....
What ... no sheite ...
We haven't graduated enough engineers from our schools and that has been the case for the last 50 years+ So your job going to India is the result of your father not going to school to be an engineer.
Guess what, Lawyers are going to be outsourced next as well as accountants and billing and whatever. The problem is we're not educating anyone in anything that is useful.
BTW more power to you if you are an accounts graduate. That is also considered difficult and kids dont study it. They study arts and social sciences and social service (WTF is social service ... ) and what ever. Yes schools charge the same amount for what is a potentially un employable education. Again no offence to anyone who has studied that, just that we may need 100 of those a year, we are maing 100,000, and if we need 100 engineers a year, we are making 1 and he is a foreigner.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
read my post again, then think, then start typing slowly and you may make sense the second time around
So your job going to India is the result of your father not going to school to be an engineer.
WTF is social science?
Oh I dunno economics, philosophy, polisci...you know those silly things that have no importance in our lives.
What a stupid question.
I can only imagine how boring a world it would be if everyone went to school to be an engineer or scientist.
I find people from FLAdispicable in general--but I do love the U.S. otherwise.
============
No body in Florida is from Florida.
They are from all over the U.S.
Las Vegas dealers make $100K+. So do car valets. Maids make $50K a year. You won't find this in any gov stat since 90% of the money is made in tips. Officially they all make $8 an hour.
This is wrong, who you trying to fool? Maids making $50k off tips.. LOL what tips? And only a small percentage of dealers clear $100k in a year (i.e. working high roller tables in the Bellagio), since they split toks (tips) and in a slow month are making garbage. Casinos are also requiring dealers to share tips with the floor people. And BTW, one govt agency, the IRS, does treat gaming tips as legit income, officially speaking.
I have several friends and family working in the industry, and if they were making 6 figures they wouldn't be hitting me up for money all the time.
--------
Next time you're in town drive 5 miles west of the strip and you'll see a whole other world.
Yeah, a giant sewer.
I plan to rent a sofa at a friends house for $400 a month. Their property taxes went up and they found they need to share.
You probably did not enjoy your payments increasing on your option arm. Some ARM mortgage lender investor might get rich. At least your house is probably a better 15 year investment than the US T-Bill.
Those Federal defense contractor war mongers cannot get enough greenbacks and the Federal debt has no real estate behind it as collateral. There were rumors of the Chinese and Iranians dumping dollars. While there were printing presses for dollars, they cannot make more real estate.
There was a time when you could not find a trailer in Malibu on someone elses land for under a million dollars. Might get a whole trailer with utiltites for $50,000 on a deed lot in some parts of these United States as of yesterday.
This is wrong, who you trying to fool? Maids making $50k off tips.. LOL what tips?
Hey just cuz you're a cheap bastard who doesn't leave a tip, don't assume we're all like you. I leave $2 per day minimum, $5 a day at high end places.
I'll bet you also leave no tips in restaurants huh. Cheap ass.
Might get a whole trailer with utiltites for $50,000 on a deed lot in some parts of these United States as of yesterday.
WOW dare to dream!!
" ... Nobody is that stupid. "
Believe me, there are PLENTY of stupid people (especially women) out there.
Anonymous said...
WTF is social science?
Oh I dunno economics, philosophy, polisci...you know those silly things that have no importance in our lives.
What a stupid question.
I can only imagine how boring a world it would be if everyone went to school to be an engineer or scientist.
Monday, January 08, 2007 7:08:08 PM
OK first your IT job didn't go to India or china. It started in the late 80's with Indians and chineese comming here and taking up IT jobs. That trend should have been reversed if we were graduating enough engineers. Slowly over the next 15 years we graduated less and less engineers till we had to send all the work outside. Besides our cost of living skyrocketed with funny money pumped in and just turned a bad situation worse.
It will be boring if everyone was an engineer, it will be crippled if no one was. And that is where we are going right now. BTW, doctors, nurses etc are all going the same way too and the demand for them is skyrocketing due to the aging population.
WTF is social science was a rhetorical question.
I could have said social service and I know of people who are graduates of that and unemployed for over 5 years.
I dunno, no problem with arts or anything really, but guess what, that is all we are teaching to the kids. They study it because that's what "they like". And they are unemployed, cos there isn't any need for that many in the arts.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Sounds like nuttyfartstench from the old Yahoo message boards finally found your site.....
Anonymous said...
Aussie,
Las Vegas dealers make $100K+. So do car valets. Maids make $50K a year
the butler makes ATLEAST $75,000.......
Anonymous said...
I didn't mean the income numbers were lies or the dealers cheats dumbass.
Chill out Chauncy!
They study arts and social sciences and social service (WTF is social service ... )
Helping black people. very important.
Don't forget the other worthless politically correct degrees like Women's Studies, Afro-American Studies, Chicano Studies etc etc
It could be intended as a spoof....but i think it's more likely made up by by one of your loyal followers. WELL DONE!! You've created a fictional character whom you're smarter than!!
To the person complaining about the shortage of engineers, read the following...
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.html
http://www.garfield.library.upenn.edu/essays/v14p376y1991.pdf
Last year a buddy and I decided to head to Las Vegas(We are from Orange County). We normally frequent the clubs on the strip, where people are pretty good looking(usually meet people from California, New York and Canada). But he got the bright idea of going to one of the "hot" clubs off the strip to meet some locals, about 30 minutes away. Holy Sh@*! Never saw so many ugly people in one place. Like a land of mutants.... it took us no more than 5 minutes to run out and head back to the safety of the srip! I still have trouble sleeping at night.
As a PhDuh in science I can honestly say that I have regrets. Esp. now that I am on year 7 (!!??!!) as a post doc. Those who have never had a peer reviewed manuscript in Science, or Nature, PNAS, etc. now seem to think that is the only thing standing between me and a job in academia. I could take an industry job for about 60K a year and cut my losses. Should have stopped at a MS before painting myself into this corner. Friends that are school teachers have a better quality of life than me.
"We haven't graduated enough engineers from our schools and that has been the case for the last 50 years+ So your job going to India is the result of your father not going to school to be an engineer."
Bullf@cking shit.
If we haven't "graduated enough engineers" yadda yadda then their salaries would be skyrocketing, like those of lawyers and nurses and doctors and mortgage brokers and investment bankers and CEO's? Why aren't we importing executives from India?
The free market doesn't work for engineers?
There are plenty of smart Americans to do the jobs.
It is active will and propaganda like the above which convinces management to pre-eliminate the possibility.
Why is it that only engineers and scientists are singled out for this blame treatment? "You're losing your job and your paycheck because there aren't enough of you?" WTF?
More propaganda justification perhaps?
At one time---during the 1960's--- there was indeed large opportunity for American scientists and engineers. That same opportunity now exists in China and India, in large measure thanks to the US anti-engineering mindset.
I have an ex who got a PhD from Haaavahhd. We dated during her Master's. I told her over and over, screw this PhD crap you don't need it. You could make $70K a year tmorrow if you wanted to. Nope, she wanted to get the PhD.
Now at 29 she's fucked. She's too old to get an entry level job and has no real world business experience for more advanced positions. At the same time even with her credentials and she can't land a decent teaching position. She struggles to get by and lives with a roommate.
For such smart people you (PhD Anon) and her sure are dumb.
For such smart people you (PhD Anon) and her sure are dumb.
So she could make $70K with a masters and yet 0 with a PhD?
It seems that it's the hiring managers who have insufferable anti-intellectual prejudices who are dumb. At worst, why don't they treat it as a 3 year "doing relief work in Cambodia" holiday.
OC guy,
Think mcfly, think for a second.
You know those little whores with a perfect body serving you the $15 watered down rum and cokes Friday night when you roll up to Light wearing the SoCal Douche uniform (baggy jeans, striped button down untucked shirt, spiked hair) striped shirt)? Those are locals Mr OC Cool-Guy. And you know the strippers you're paying $20 for a 3 minute jiggle on your lap (no they don't REALLY like you)...guess where they live Mr OC Smooth Daddy-O? That's right. And the go-go dancers, cocktail waitresses, showgirls, etc... yup all live in "Uglyville, USA" aka Las Vegas.
The nights you are in town they are all working serving SoCal trash like you and serving you with a smile. Thursday night is their Monday night. They're not out clubbing with you. When you go back to the mexican infested wasteland we call California Sunday night, that's their Friday night. That's when they go out.
G'day mates!
Ozzie Tim here.
It occurs to me that the IRS might actually be comparing the deductible interest reported by lenders on the (is it a 1098?) versus the taxable wages reported.
If someone has, say, 80% of their taxable income offset by 1098 deductible mortgage interest it might be of interest (especially if the sum of mortgage interest and withholding added up to more than the gross reported earnings.
So maybe after all the loan liars will get a comeuppance!
Hooroo. Ozzie Tim
Who knows, maybe he is right...
It's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 30% yearly price increase.
Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.
This asset bubble is different than all of the others - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.
Anonymous said...
Aussie,
Las Vegas dealers make $100K+. So do car valets. Maids make $50K a year
the butler makes ATLEAST $75,000.......
And paper boys make $30K+..... for a 3 delivery a week route.
Hello to the other fellow with a Harvard gf.
My ex-gf, who was also in a Harvard PhD sciences program some years back, decided to drop out, take a terminal masters (A.M.), and went to work on Wall Street.
In fact, she spent a great deal of time, during her A.M. courses, getting involved in student finance groups and meeting alumni at GS and JPM before the on-campus recruiting season. What she discovered was that as masters students, a Harvard degree opens numerous doors (in her situation, she had some eight offers), but afterwards (Phd/postdoc levels), only select individuals from specific teams were hired as PhD quants in finance, the rest were overqualified for IT, risk/analysis, and trading positions which were numerous for those with pedigreed (Ivy, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, London School of Economics) tech backgrounds but less than a doctorate.
Pimps make over 150.000 a year not to far behind most realtors. But hey the bottom has hit, now is the time to please buy please I need the new BMW. Dont wait till spring I can get you that loan and a trick.
Who the hell out there is paying 22,000 a month in rent??? That must be a pretty sweet pad. I only pay 700 for a nice townhouse just off of Miracle Mile in Coral Gables, FL. Oh and moe in Kangaroo Dung land...there are some really decent, courteous and intelligent transplants living in Miami that are trying to coexist with the poorly educated Miami locals, terrible Cuban drivers, and annoying New York Jews, all whom are clogging the arteries of what could and should be a wonderful American city. No need to paint us all here with the same brush.
"OK first your IT job didn't go to India or china. It started in the late 80's with Indians and chineese comming here and taking up IT jobs. That trend should have been reversed if we were graduating enough engineers. Slowly over the next 15 years we graduated less and less engineers till we had to send all the work outside."
Try doing a little research for yourself instead of quoting the lying propaganda of Bill Gates and the ITAA -- you moron!
"So she could make $70K with a masters and yet 0 with a PhD? It seems that it's the hiring managers who have insufferable anti-intellectual prejudices who are dumb."
Starting with the early 90s, a lot of people started taking the PhD off the resume and replacing it with interludes like "research assistant at institute XYZ" to account for the time spent.
I believe if there was an authentic science PhD shortage, there'd be hiring managers banging on people's doors.
A friend, another biochem engineer, did exactly that while applying for non-university positions after her first MS. Well, she landed a job in insurance and is now an actuarial associate earning a low six figure salary so the trick worked.
One nice aspect of actuarial tracks is that once one passes all 9 licensing exams and is properly experienced, it's quite reasonable to sustain a long term mid six figure income (160K-290K) w/o having to take paycuts, between layoff cycles, since the number of active "fellows" are restricted industry wide. I know that there are executive actuaries who earn over half a million but those are not typical of licensed fellows just the exec types.
"A friend, another biochem engineer, did exactly that while applying for non-university positions after her first MS. Well, she landed a job in insurance and is now an actuarial associate earning a low six figure salary so the trick worked.
One nice aspect of actuarial tracks is that once one passes all 9 licensing exams and is properly experienced, it's quite reasonable to sustain a long term mid six figure income (160K-290K)"
Your claim is just as exagerated as the guy who said that valet parking attendants make over 100k a year and that maids make over 50k. A well-seasoned actuary may make somewhere in the low 100s. Beyond that is very rare. Also, actuarial positions are few and far between.
"One nice aspect of actuarial tracks is that once one passes all 9 licensing exams and is properly experienced, it's quite reasonable to sustain a long term mid six figure income (160K-290K)"
:Your claim is just as exagerated as the guy
Just check out this actuarial salary site:
http://www.dwsimpson.com/salary.html
and look for FCAS salaries. It's pretty solid, I think $180K+ isn't so unusual.
More and more actuarial jobs are being outsourced to India. This is not only for the cost savings. Most people of India have a far superior mathmatical foundation for these jobs than does the typical American hillbilly!
:Most people of India have a far superior mathmatical foundation for these jobs than does the typical American hillbilly
First of all, hillbillies aren't working as actuaries. Stateside actuaries are generally Americans with science a/o mathematical degrees.
Next, the reason why there are FCAS and associate level positions stateside, that won't be sent over as in computer programming or accounting, is that there are liabilities and professional licensing is required for many of these types of tasks so that there's a paper trail of the work performed for legally binding reasons. Actuarial support work, however, will go abroad.
If insurance companies really wanted to offshore actuarial work, including the licensing stuff, they'd go for the former Soviet Union where top tech papers for applied math and physics journals are submitted over the cheap labor/coding monkey work that's in India today. Russia trump the US in terms of mathematical prowess at the elite levels, not India.
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