Do you feel ANY pity toward:
1) Hungry and desperate real estate clerks (formerly known as REALTORSTM)
2) Unemployed mortgage brokers
3) Out of work illegal Mexican homebuilders
4) Upside down condo and home flippers (Casey Serin)
5) Ramen-eating real estate appraisers
6) Bored and soon to be unemployed Home Depot clerks
7) Out of power REIC-supported Republicans
8) The discredited and corrupt David Lereah and his NAR henchmen
9) Soon to be foreclosed on materialistic McMansion owners
10) The going-bankrupt and debt-suffocated over-spending buy-now-pay-never generation
January 06, 2007
HousingPanic Stupid Question of the Day
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74 comments:
"27 comments"
even with the "anon" posting being allowed again, this blog is slowly dying off just like the housing bubble myth...Y2K anyone?
do you guys still believe this shit after 2 years of blah blah blah about it? even ufo's went away eventually...find a new paranoia. or take some xanax.
Florida Gator
I feel a mixture of pity and contempt for all the groups and individuals you have listed. But mostly contempt.
I have this overriding notion that, given the right circumstances, I, too, could have become one of these people. Sort of like 'there, but for the grace of God, go I', you know?
That's why it makes me sick to hear and read David Lereah and all these 'realtors' who have sold their souls to the REIC. Like when you realize you've said something stupid and you want to take it back so badly but, of course, can't. I hate David Lereah's words just as if they were my own lies and deceit.
Keith,
May I add a few more categories of people for which to feel sorry?
How about:
-Soon-to-be-living-in-the-cardboard-boxes-their-couches-were-shipped-in furniture dealers
-Anybody with a pension that is invested in the trillions of dollars of MBS issued by Fannie/Freddie and the private MBS industry
-Anybody with a bank account, CD, or other deposit at the soon-to-be destroyed banking system
-Everyone who holds a share of stock or a bond, which will have its value destroyed in the ensuing economic meltdown
-Any one who wants a loan, as interest rates once again reach double-digits in the coming credit crunch
-Millions of homeless, starving children, who did nothing to deserve such a fate.
Needless to say, this epic, historic real estate bust is going to deeply impact each and every sector of our society for decades to come.
Shame on us.
Another one for the list:
11) Anonymous posters who spew only empty criticism and have nothing of merit to contribute to the discussion
Again, I feel a mixture of pity and contempt for these people. But mostly contempt.
The out of work illegal Mexican construction workers will soon be the legal amnesty Mexican construction worker courtesy of the Democrats.Then the 12-15 million can have welfare, unemployment, food stamps,and bring their other relatives to the U.S. LEGALLY. All at the cost to the poor American middle class tax payer. With the Calif. Govenor wanting to give health care to illegal aliens, they are realy opening the flood gates. California is turning into a 3rd world country.
1) Hungry and desperate real estate clerks (formerly known as REALTORSTM)
LOL........NO
2) Unemployed mortgage brokers
NO
3) Out of work illegal Mexican homebuilders
They are all in New Orleans
4) Upside down condo and home flippers (Casey Serin)
NO, they are all insane landlords now.
5) Ramen-eating real estate appraisers
the honest ones had a really hard time, so kinda
6) Bored and soon to be unemployed Home Depot clerks
YES, their CEO pretty much took care of things...
7) Out of power REIC-supported Republicans
No and NO
8) The discredited and corrupt David Lereah and his NAR henchmen
He is not dicredited enough yet.
9) and 10) Nope and NO.
iw
"11) Anonymous posters who spew only empty criticism and have nothing of merit to contribute to the discussion"
please explain how the drop in price in a few areas(phoenix, vegas, etc)will affect the world economy at large...
actually, using that logic, explain to me how the world existed before subprime lending, because using HP thinking, there must have been no world economy worth talking about...
and then at least address Y2K and how the world didnt end in 2000 as predicted...
lastly, just forgot my password, the name is...
FLORIDA GATOR, numnuts...
what u should have said:
With the [REPUGLICAN] Calif. Govenor wanting to give health care to illegal aliens, they [THE REPUGLICANS] are realy opening the flood gates. California is turning into a 3rd world country.
well i'll be: the anon function is back once again. And with it vanishes the integrity of the blog.
So, WHO WANTS TO READ MY POETRY?!?
i don't know about poetry, by i'll be happy to tell u about group last week...
uh oh!
here comes a Mad Hatter Tea Party!!!
Dear Numnuts Florida Gator,
It is so nice to hear from you. You don't write to us near often enough.
I don't believe that the drop in home prices will be limited to phoenix, vegas and etc. Unless by 'etc' you mean 'everywhere else'.
The bubble has not occurred everywhere but I think it is in effect in enough places that all will be affected.
But I could be wrong and that's why I like to discuss and hear opposing viewpoints. For instance, I can't see any relationship between the Y2k and the housing bubble. To my mind, one has nothing to do with the other.
Perhaps you are trying to say that Y2k was just paranoia and so is this housing bubble. Well, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that everyone isn't out to get you.
Some people were paranoid about bin laden and al qaeda back in 2000. Turns out their fears were justified.
"Soon to be foreclosed on materialistic McMansion owners"
materialistic? As opposed to the socialistic hell Sweden is attempting to pull itself from.
A new "CONSERVATIVE" government was recently elected after a decade of leftist rule, to attempt to clean up all the spending.
We, however, are trying to mimick Sweden's failed social experiment.
Greg swann is a tool boy.
I would rather live in socialistic Sweden than America. For the ordinary guy, you will live longer, have access to a excellent health care system and a fair pension system
If America is so wonderful, how come 25% cannot afford health care?
How many Americans will ever be able to retire?
How come the infant mortality rate is lower in Cuba than in your own capital
America is great if you where born rich, but if you are born poor, your standard of living will be at subsistence.
paul e math
"Some people were paranoid about bin laden and al qaeda back in 2000" ...........but it didn't stop an attack. The world's increased paranoia thereafter also didn't stop the next ones (london, Madrid!!). BTW, The paranoid ones sold their tribeca lofts cheap after the attack and those lofts (tribeca, Soho, Greenwich Village - which are right next to the trade centers) are now worth many times more after the attack.....they are some of the most expensive real estate in the world. Smart investors know that paranoia breeds opportunity. I just wish more blowhards like you all would get even more paranoid so that i can buy your real estate. Then again, you guys are probably just "playing" paranoid. sorry, but I ain't falling for it!!
hahahaha. This is THE best blog around since Keith keeps stirring the pot, keeping it interesting.
Go away troll. That bankruptcy fish hook you call your "home" is tugging at you.
Okay Keith- The light is starting to come on. I always have loved your blog, It has been a course steadying beacon the last 2 years. It has been more helpful than a bus load of wall st. anal-sts. I've just not bought into the George Bush is an idiot,corrupt leader until now. When I found out that President Bush has agreed to offer social security retroactive to the ILLEGAL ALIENS after they are granted amnesty, I just lost all faith in G.W. Social security is truly doomed.
What are you talking about, illegal aliens WILL get unemployment and welfare?
They already do!
The only "benefits" you get for being a U.S. Citizen is you get to vote (haha) and you get to serve on a jury.
Sheeeit.
Question: If I get Canadian citizenship, but work and live in the U.S., do I still have to pay Canadian income tax?
Actually, non-citizens should be taxed at a higher rate. That way, we can get the federal deficit down by "charging" people for the right to live in the U.S.
It's perfect. These hard working immigrants should be exploited. If the demand to work here is so high, the price to work here should be high too.
Damn I'm good.
Illegals do not get unemployment insurance, unless they use fake papers---but the new green card is much harder to fake.
But many do get Medicaid. It's very easy: have a baby.
The only "benefits" you get for being a U.S. Citizen is you get to vote (haha) and you get to serve on a jury.
And you can work in the military-industrial complex with a security clearance.
HP note to "Sane Person"
1) Don't threadjack
2) Don't bore
3) Don't post 10 times in a row
4) Contribute to the conversation or go away
HP'ers - ignore "Sane Person" for now unless he learns some blog ettiquite
Gator, you forgot to sign your name at the end of your last anonymous post. That's okay, I would recognize your gibberish anywhere.
It seems as though you think that real estate only goes in one direction and I would strongly disagree with that. Now that everyone perceives real estate as an 'investment' we can expect it to act more like one. By that I mean that real estate prices can go up and they can also come down.
We have just experienced an unprecedented rise in home prices based on a euphoric belief that no matter what the price is now, it will be more in the future. Does that sound realistic to you?
Maybe prices are appropriate right now. But if so, why? Prices have never been higher relative to the rent that you could generate from the property - that's bad. Prices have never been higher relative to average incomes and, ultimately, people pay for real estate with their income - that's bad.
I suspect that you were one of those people who mistakenly assumed that real estate only went up. I suspect you thought you were pretty smart at one time and are now struggling with evidence to the contrary. You lash out at HP because of something you can't or won't accept in yourself.
I feel for you a mixture of pity and contempt. But mostly contempt.
By blog etiquette Keif means agree with him and the paranoid nuts here.
YES SIR!!
SIEG HEIL KEIF!!!
"Sane Person" - many on this blog disagree with me and I welcome that
My problem with you is you're boring, a threadjacker, you swear, you post ten times in a row, and you don't add to the conversation
If HP was a party, the host wouldn't invite you back and the guests would want you to leave so they could have fun again
Learn some blog ettiquite, add to the blog, and don't bore
To SANE PERSON
Go away man. You may think you are being clever but you really are boring. What kind of pathetic person comes to someone else's blog and stirs up shit just for the sake of stirring up shit? Do you go to cooking blogs and post on "How much cooking sucks"? Would you go to motorcycle blog and call everyone Hell's Angel hooligans?
At the very least you are rude, give the blog owner some respect or stay away! This is kindergarten stuff.
Go to sane guy's $hitty blog and spam the $hit out of him.
I've been here renting in bum^%^% Alabama for six months now and the prices aren't dropping yet. The word from my few (trusted) realtor friends is that the builders aren't about to budge. How much longer will it take?
You have an amazing life Sane Person, it's aparent you don't have much to do with your time.
Damn this site rules. 6 "excited" posts in a row, from anti-bubble brethren. This alone could have convinced me to sell if I already hadn't done so...or is that your aim? Annoying thing about reverse logic, you don't know how many times it's been reversed!
Cape May County New Jersey ... from the County Clerks Office, 2006 sales off 30% from 2005. Cape May is mostly second/investment properties. Wildwood is afloat with unsold condo's.
bozonian said...
The only "benefits" you get for being a U.S. Citizen is you get to vote (haha) and you get to serve on a jury.
Many illegal alliens do vote.
Cape May County New Jersey ... from the County Clerks Office, 2006 sales off 30% from 2005. Cape May is mostly second/investment properties. Wildwood is afloat with unsold condo's.
++++++++++
I know a retired couple who waited too long to sell their Cape May home so they could live on the assets. What a mess!
casey serin likes blow up dolls.
amnesty and social security to illegals. hmmm.
lets see: over 10,000,000 already here. tough to send em back. make em legal and tax the holy dog shit out of em. that is pretty good solution.
Sociable security was never meant to be a retirement account. but, too late now. also, not enough young workers to support all the old farts (yeah, me included). so, lets legalize all these young illegals, put em to work, get em into the data banks. and then they can pay social security taxes for all for all those about to retire.
okay, so far so good.
but lets think now. in about 20 years when some young mexican or salvadoran, or whatever, is paying 50% of his income in taxes to support old white people in connecticut and his kids are suffering as a result....
hmmm. do you think he will continue to give half his income to support a corrupt system, or perhaps say....you know, we really dont need washington that much, so lets take back the part of the country that was ours in the first place. so, if you live in the southwest, if you dont already know spanish, I recommend you learn spanish or move to montana (yeah, I mean you Jay). oh yeah, and buy gold. and lead.
4 options I see for illegal problem
build a wall and deport everyone here. odds of happening about .1%
really crack down on employers which will make them deport themselves. odds of happening .49%
give amnesty and then build a wall and crack down on employers who hire illegals not amnestied. odds of happening 4.5%
give amnesty, do nothing about security, in 20 years we have 30 more illegals and we have amnesty part 3. odds of happening 95%
30 more = 30 million more
hello mr paul e math,
I'm not gator so you're wrong there
who know what the right price is but the fundemental are getting better everyday as rent are going through the roof here. so youre wrong that they have never been worse...they were worse 1 year ago dingbat!!!
of course real estate is an "investment" anybody with half a brain knows it's an asset class that a diversified portfolio should hold. And yes it does appreciate over time as anyone who knows about fixed assets and inflation would understand. of course any asset class can go down but there needs to be key fundemental reasons for it. I, for instanse, when long international equities 5 years ago because i felt the US dollar is overvalued. I still think so (euro dollar target $1.38).
I simply believe that all the hype you guys are blowing is crap. Real estate need a bull run to catch up to 10 of zero appreciating. Incomes are rising faster than expected (see friday's job and wage reports), inflation and interest rates remain at historically low levels, population growth is extremely strong, unemployment is at 4.5% and falling, people are flocking from the burbs to live in cities (ok, that only helps some of us), economies a flush with liquidity (see all the private equity deals happening). Now compare today to 1988 when i sold my house in connecticut because i thought it was going down.....that's when the fundementals of the economy were off!!
anyway, real estate is NOT cheap! that's the only thing you got right. BUT TRUST ME...."market timers" (like Mr. paul e math is trying to be) have historically had a horrific track record.
Anyway, i didn't sign gator because i'm not him. at the same time, i laugh at you for thinking that someone is hiding behind "anonymous"....but not hiding behind the name "Gator"...or "paul e math" for that matter.
Mr, Anonymous
lol Mr. Anonymous
Anonymous said...
hello mr paul e math,
I'm not gator so you're wrong there
who know what the right price is but the fundemental are getting...
Much of what you are saying is correct. But, what your missing is that the RE market is cyclical. The last few years have seen an historic rise in RE prices across many parts of the country. History tells us that each rise in the value of RE has been followed by a fall in the value of RE. With the historic rise over the last few years, RE will see a historic fall in prices. The real arguements are how long it will take and how low will it go. Nobody can argue that RE, for the most part, does not rise in value over the long term. What we talk about here is the RE market over the last few years during the run up and what will happen over the next few years in the slow down.
And also how this slowdown will affect the economy.
"amigauser said...
I would rather live in socialistic Sweden than America. For the ordinary guy, you will live longer, have access to a excellent health care system and a fair pension system"
Excellent indeed, because it shows how ignorant you are. Sweden is in financial hell BECAUSE of the health care and pension spending. For dolts like you, this means they are spending far more than they are making. They can't afford the so-called lavish life style you believe they have. Isn't it odd that so many foreign leaders get their medical needs serviced at the Mayo clinic here in the US. Why not in Sweden?
"If America is so wonderful, how come 25% cannot afford health care?
How many Americans will ever be able to retire?"
No one said socialism was eradicated from the US. Far from it.
"How come the infant mortality rate is lower in Cuba than in your own capital"
Yet they risk their lives coming here.!?
"America is great if you where born rich, but if you are born poor, your standard of living will be at subsistence."
Only for the lazy. It sounds as if you are college educated my friend and that is not a compliment.
yeah isn't it interesting how tens of thousands of Cubans have risked their lives sailing on a raft in the open sea with the hope of getting to Florida.
You'd think with the socialist paradise in Cuba nobody would ever want to live.
isn't it funny 'sane person' is the least sane person on this board?
David in jax,
Fair enough! i admit I'm new to this and any other site on the subject. But i would argue that "what you do" or "what i read" is 90% scream "the sky is falling" and 10% discuss the fundementals. I would argue that that's what the press has done as well. Cycles as you know, can be long or short, shallow or deep....and there's no certainty when they turn or how deep they go. (btw, Economic cycles have actually become less deep and expansions have become longer over time). and all would agree that that housing is typically not a "deep cyclical". Given that there has been a step change (down) in global interest rates, one would have to assume there should be a step change (up) in housing prices. that's what we;ve had and I believe that China, India etc, newly independant central banks, better information systems etc mean that we are globally better managed and therefore expect the step change in rates to be maintained (as does the 10 year bond). Looking at absolute real estate prices is NOT right but gets all the bears on this site excited.
I'll leave you guys (sorry Davis in jax because you sound quite reasonalble) alone to wallow in misery. Goodbye
Mr. Anonymous
Anonymous said...
David in jax,
Fair enough! i admit I'm new to this and any other site on the subject. But i would argue that "what you do" or "what i read" is 90% scream "the sky is falling" and 10% discuss the fundementals...
You should frequent this blog more often. There are lots of discussions on the fundamentals of RE, economics and predictions on what will happen. This particular subject is just the "stupid quesion of the day". Check back and you will see lots of good posts.
Another problem is that the blog has been hijacked recently by lots of people acting like jackasses. Instead of having civil discussions about the economics of RE, they rant and rave in an attempt to ruin the blog because they want people to think RE only goes up.
Sane person is a tool and should be reoved from this blog indefinitely.
27 comments....Look at some threads from last week- 200+ posts. It ain't over til it's over.
It will be the Repuglicans and Democraps who will grant amnesty to 15 million illegal aliens who will bring over another 30 million relatives to further burden the failing schools and healthcare system. This will be a signal to Asia that the floodgates have been opened and there are 1.4 billion Chinese and 1.2 billion Indians who will decide to skip the application process and hop aboard a ship or plane and get their free lunch.
Yes we all know how accurate th figures that come out of communist countries are. I have lived in a socialist society (Canada) for roughly 50% of my life and the US for the other. The problems in a socialized system are rampant. My family pays very high taxes in order to support a system which only works if people don't abuse it. Unfortunately the system only works in a perfect world, which in case you haven't come down from your ivory tower for long enough just doesnt exist. People are fundamentally lazy. They abuse systems which coddle them. It's a fact. The freaking French go on strike every hour on the hour simply because they can - and I assure you their problems with unemployment, and Europe's in general are far more pervasive than the problem ever has been in America. In fact as a foreigner in Europe - you are effectively cut out of the system. In America, despite our problems, we will give you the opportunity to feed your family while they live in another country. And afford yourself a better lifestyle. And with a good employer (I happen to work for one of them, and he happens to be an immigrant) benefits extend to all. You need to spend some time in the real world son.
How can you tax the illegal aliens who are making $8/hr and have a wife and 5 children to support? They will be getting $5K in tax rebates. The only winners are the businesses who get cheap labor. The taxpayers get socked with the taxes to support the schools, prisons and hospitals.
As far as the crock of 30 million people without healthcare, 15 million of them are illegal aliens. Others are small business owners who choose not to be insured. The poor and elderly are covered by Uncle Sam. Very few full-time workers do not have the option to buy health insurance. There is alot of propaganda from the socialists.
The real world be damned. It's more comfortable in the theoretical world.
6) Bored and soon to be unemployed Home Depot clerks
YES, their CEO pretty much took care of things...
I was in HD today talking to some long time friends who work there. Good people, always helpful. They despise their former dipsh*t CEO as much as the shareholders did. Morale in just the last 6 months has tanked to an all time low, in their opinion.
I feel sorry for them. Uncertainty is the worst downer. After all, they are just little cogs in the machine like most of us. They need their jobs too!
The only group I have compassion for on that list are the unemployed Home Depot clerks.
They've had nothing to with the obscene run-up in home prices.
All it did was price them out of the market.
materialistic? As opposed to the socialistic hell Sweden is attempting to pull itself from.
A new "CONSERVATIVE" government was recently elected after a decade of leftist rule, to attempt to clean up all the spending.
Real CONSERVATISM is the opposite of MATERIALISM.
Much of what you are saying is correct. But, what your missing is that the RE market is cyclical.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
IT ONLY GOES UP OK???
UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP UP
NEVER DOWN, NEVER EVER
Mr. Anonymous, you completely miss the point of signing a name to your posts, don't you? You don't see it at all even when you provide me with the perfect example of why it is so irritating when you post anonymously. Your ignorance is breathtaking.
Next point: so you don't know what appropriate prices are but you seem to know that they shouldn't go down...? Because of fundamentals? Where is this place where rents are going 'through the roof'? A percent here and there doesn't count, Cochese.
I think you've been drinking the NAR koolaid. RE over the long term (100+ years) appreciates at roughly inflation +1%. So why is this an asset class that a 'diversified portfolio' should hold? RE is NOT an investment - It's a place to live. I laugh pretty hard at the pretentions of moronic homeowners who now think they are brilliant 'investors'.
I'm also going to point to the inherent conflict between some of your 'good news and sunshine' economic indicators. So wages are rising nicely and unemployment is very low. And somehow inflation is going to remain flat without the fed raising interest rates? What happens when the dollar continues to slide? Something has to give.
Finally, I'm not blowing any hype. So the hype I'm blowing can't be crap. If I ever claimed to know exactly what is going to happen in the RE market then I was certainly mistaken. But one thing is for sure: you don't know either.
Oh my God, Paul E. Math, you are like the coolest guy ever!!!
The DailyKooks members are out in fool force
What do you call broke retirees?
(And believe me, there will be PLENTY of them over the comming years...)
Ans: Loyal democrats.
Have a nice day.
The solution to illegal immigration is simple:
Allow a citizen to sue (civil lawsuit) any company who is paying illegals. Collect damages AND get the job the illegal had.
It causes the job market to self balance. If no citizen really wants the job, it's ok to give it to anyone.
Also, you with this system you don't have to wait around for the government to take care of the problem (which they apparently refuse to do).
paul e math
Just read your personal profile. In your words you are: "priced out of home-ownership and getting more and more angry about it".
Try to calm down because your anger is not only off-putting, but it also is clouding your reasoning.
Had I known you had an anger problem, i would never have engaged you in conversation. You clearly have enough to deal with.
you did make one good point, however, about posting anonymously. I do find it very helpful to know that everything you write is based on your "anger" of being priced out of the property market. You bitch about realtors talking their own book....but you're guilty of the same.
you keep saying you have "pity and contempt" for everyone. The reality is that you have "pity and contempt" for your own situation.
Very sad
Mr. Anonymous
One more thing Paul e maith
Of course real estate is an investment and part of a properly structured portfolio. One would have assumed you knew a bit about diversification given that given that youre mr. "math"...but you should find this helpful in understanding investment portfolio theory
Diversification among various asset classes works by spreading your investments among various assets (e.g. stocks, bonds, cash, T-bills, real estate, etc. Your theory would argue that stocks have provided the best return for 100 years and that one should put everything in equities. NOT TRUE on a risk adjusted basis...dingbat
The key here for Mr. "MATH" to understand is that they have low correlation to each other. I, thereby, reduce volatility in my portfolio.
Let me know if i need to explain correlation and volatility.
Anyway, you don't have to own a house to have exposure. I also own REITS.
Let me know when you get out of your hole!
Mr. Anonymous
Mr. Anonymous, just because I'm angry about housing in general doesn't mean I'm a ranting psycho. I'm not sure how you read 'off-putting' anger into my posts.
But that was a nice attempt at passive aggressiveness.
You incite anger with taunts like 'dingbat' and then hope that the person gets really mad in their next post so you can call them crazy. Your strategy is transparent.
Even if I weren't smarter than you I would still read you like a children's book.
Dingbat ("a silly person"),
I never called you a "raving phyco" but you obviously think you are one if you make that interpratation). I never have "strategies" (except for investing, of course). The fact that you talk this way tells me that you're obviously on this site with "strategies". wow, you really are "off"
mr. anonymous
Problem with fining employers who hire illegal immigrants:
Every mom & pop operation in the country goes belly up because they don't have a delivery guy, stock person, toilet cleaner, floor sweeper and because the next option is going to be a lazy, self-important, entitled puke like Casey Serin who will do nothing all day but PLAN to do his job and complain he isn't being paid nearly enough.
It's our fault for phasing hard work out of our culture and we will pay dearly.
Mr. Anon,
You make too much sense, you will soon be banned from this blog. To stay here follow 3 simple rules:
1. Never question the mantra that real estate ownership is stupid. Anyone who owns a home has an IQ under 80. All renters are in the 125+ category.
2. Never question the mantra that socialism works because it helps poor people. Rich people are evil and should either be killed outright or taxed to death.
3. Accept the fact that a housing crash and hyperinflation are both just around the corner. Even though it makes so sense whatsoever, it will be so.
Have a nice day.
Anon 5:22 - I'm going to guess you probably live in Los Angeles or a similar city overun with illegals.
Do yourself a favor and go to Montana, Wyoming or one of the Dakotas. There you will see wonders you thought you'd never see again. White teenagers working at McDonald's. White women cleaning hotel rooms. White men working as electricians, plumbers, waiters, busboys, short order cooks, gas station attendants, car wash attendants, lawn care workers....all the jobs that are now 100% illegal in Los Angeles.
There is still plenty of work ethic among whites in this country. White Americans will do the jobs "americans won't do" if given a chance.
Anon 6:16:
You're right, I live in New York. People can't survive on burger-flipping, hotel-cleaning wage unless they live in a scary neighborhood. Those neighborhoods have vast quantities of angry unemployed minorities and working poor.
There is a town south of Greenwich CT called Port Chester whose entire population is illegal immigrants who trim lawns, and dust priceless antiques for Tripp and Buffy Worthington.
I guess that means we all need to move to the unpopulated west to survive as small businesses, because huge corporations are the only people who can really afford to keep everyone above board.
Anon 6:59:
The wages are low for those jobs since the workers produce low value. A burger flipper making $6 or $7 an hour is producing $6 ot $7 worth of value.
The blame is in the wrong place. Whether an illegal or an American flips the burger, he provides his employer the same amount of value. An illegal will do it for $7. An American would rather stay on welfare which pays just as much.
Get rid of welfare the illegal problem goes away. That will never happen of course, and illegals will never go home either.
its all about affordability and the lack of it that has made the bubble real. No GF and the toxic loans demise will show the pain. Y2k was real and the only reason people don't believe it was because the code was fixed.
The only one's I feel bad for are the Home Depot clerks. 13 years ago they probably owned or worked at a small mom and pop place that was out out of business by the big box.
"Y2k was real"
sure it was. keep thinking that if it makes you feel better about the 1000 jugs of water you bought and still have in the spare bedroom.
y2k was the biggest scam there ever was and you know it.
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